October 8, 2025 • 20 mins
On Politics Thursday, Nick Mills was joined by National's Otaki MP Tim Costley and Labour's Hutt South MP Ginny Andersen.
They faced off on the issues from the week. Andersen and Costley debated on HealthNZ funding vapes for smokers wanting to quit, the job seeker benefit cuts and the introduction of the new protest law. Andersen says Labour will not support the law that would ban protest at private homes.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said b focusing in on the issues
that matter. Politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings, news Talk said by.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
That's shine Gen you make your decision. Love. Welcome back
at seven minutes past eleven.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Politics Thursday, Labor South MP Ginny Anderson joins me in
the studio spokesperson for Job and Come.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
Morning, Jinny Cowder, Good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Now you've just had a bit of a holiday. You've
just been away.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
Up I did. I went with my family overseas to
celebrate my husband's sixtieth birthday.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Wow, fantastic. Well you please to be hoped, Yes, to be.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Honest, it's it's been a whelwind of a week. I
arrived home on Monday and so I think leag's just
starting to wear off.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Now, okay, let's try and get you through this half
hour quickly. Then National O Techi MP Tim Costly disappointed
that you're not in the studio with us today, Tim.
I wanted to be part of your Instagram pig. I
wanted to get to become a star.
Speaker 5 (01:15):
I'm disappointed as well. Maybe we need to we need
to sort something out. But the house is sitting and
I've been in the House and Select Committee all morning
and I've just snuck out for this. So next time,
let's let's put something in that's gonna it's gonna be great.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
You were just a bit scared of Ginny. I know.
I don't blame you. I know she can be a
bit aggressive.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Last week, the protest at Winston Peter's home turned violent,
with a man now arrested for smashing his window with
a rock. I think it was actually a crowbar, but
but anyway. This was, of course, after actress and activists
Acacia O'Connor leaked his Winston's address into the public and
encouraged the protest for Palestine. Oh gosh, Jinny, Jinny, Jinny, Ginny,
(01:57):
what are your thoughts on the new law being brought
in to stop people being able to protest outside politicians' homes.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Well, let's be clear, what happened at Winston places absolutely unacceptable.
There's no reason at all for there to be that
sort of level of violence in protest. People have a
right to protest, that's part of our democracy, but not
when they break the law.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Would you back this law?
Speaker 4 (02:21):
We haven't backed it because it was pretty unclear about
the detail of where as a house, and so there's some.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Real contim because I would be sure that you would
back it after what stuff to Zinda had to go through.
I mean, you know she had to go through similar stuff,
So why wouldn't you back there being a law that
prevents people. I mean, I'd hate people to go out
of your house.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
We don't think it's right that people should be outside houses.
But largely from my experience when I was Minister of Police,
there's a good swathe of laws in there that we
can use. If they're disturbing the peace, if they're disrupting
the public, if they're doing any kind of vandalism, then
that is the job of the police to get in
there and arrest people for doing those things. So I'm
(03:05):
just not quite convinced that you need a new law
if you're going to police see sort of things properly.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Tim, do you think the Greens should stand up and
take ownership of this. I mean that's sort of hiding
behind everyone, not sort of omitting to anything.
Speaker 5 (03:20):
Yeah, look, the Greens and Labor absolutely need to step
up and take some ownership here. For the police to
going and to arrest someone there has to be a law.
We're putting a law through that prohibits this. You know,
on Tuesday we had the Labor leader saying that that's
not okay to protest there. The Justice spokesperson said it was.
But they won't back the bill. They won't vote for it.
You've got the Green Party and Labor in the past
(03:42):
that have been, you know, crying foul. They've had an
MP stand down because of intimidation and poor behavior apparently,
and yet they're not willing to back meaningful stuff that
will actually actually make a difference. This is complete contradiction
and no one's buying it. They need to actually just say,
do you know what good point? We got that wrong.
We're coming back the law.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Ginny, what was your thoughts on a case you're O'Connor
getting canceled? Basically she lost her job and one New
Zealand commercial. What were your thoughts when you first saw that.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
I just was trying to kind of keep up with
it to be honest of what was what was evolving.
I mean, those are really questions for the Green Party
in terms of how they conduct their press conferences and
who they associate with. So it's pretty difficult to get
a pass judgment when I wasn't over exactly. You know
what's going on there, and really it's up to One
(04:31):
New Zealand. You know that they're a commercial entity. It's
their decision about who represents them and if they consider
that there is risk to their reputation, that's a decision
that they can take.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Tim How bad is this looking for the Greens?
Speaker 5 (04:44):
Yeah, it doesn't look good, does it. I mean Chlos
Warbrick was hosting her at a press conference. This is
you know, the activist that did this. Describe yourself in
the media as a humble, loving actor, but if you
read her social media post, it was vile. It had
horrific language. It was offensive to both Winston Peter's the
Prime Minister and the deputy prime minister. And yet the
Greens just won't back down. No one knows what they believe.
(05:08):
I think they believe in whatever's best for the Greens.
But this is appalling. Everyone in Parliament should be united
saying this kind of behavior is not okay. We're going
to back the law that will put an end to
some of it. And I cannot understand why Jenny won't
just turn around right now and say, actually, Yep, we'll
back that law. It's a good thing to do.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
I'm a bit surprised by that too, Jenny, because I
would have thought, you know, that you would be a
little bit nervous of the whole situation of well what
you say when you say it and go home to
your family.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
People have a right in our democracy at to protest,
and we need to be wary of trying to stop
people who have a democratic right to do that. But
there is a clear line, and is that if they
break the law, if they intimidate people in a way
that they are destroying property.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
This is what this law's doing, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
But so many times as Minister of Police, you'd have
someone with a smart idea come along and say police
need this, And there are laws existing already such as
just doing the peace in terms of causing or even
blocking people getting access into areas.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
That they have been me and you have had this
conversation before when you were a police minister. We've had
this actual conversation where I've said to you, are you okay?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Do you know?
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Because there was some stuff coming at you as well
as a female and you're a minister of police, big
position I'm sorry, but this sort of surprises me that
you're not for this law change.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
What I believe in is it's important that we have
a healthy democracy, and I'm really proud of the fact that,
no matter what the changes we've seen in post COVID,
which is quite dramatic, to be honest, in terms of
the polarization of political I think I think it's incredibly
important that politicians remain available and are able to talk
to people and engage with people. And so there is Yep,
(06:58):
everybody's got a right to protest, but if they break
the law as they did with Winston Peters, they are
due to be prosecuted as that person was.
Speaker 5 (07:07):
But this is the fundamental question, right is it okay?
And I'd love to hear this from Jenny, because you
just said everyone has the right to protest. Is it
okay to protest outside Jenny's home or Torry Farno's home
or any other public figure, Because we're saying that's not okay,
It was not okay to disturb their families and their neighbors,
and we're trying to pass a law to stop that.
Labor are refusing to support it, and yet they're kind
(07:29):
of saying, well, it's not okay, but actually eyone has
a right to do it. So what is the Labor
Party position on this? Because I don't think anyone understands right.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
Now, I've been incredibly clear people have a right to protest.
If they break the law outside your home need to
be they need to be prosecuted. If someone is outside
of home and they've broken the law, they shall be
prosecuted and the police will be alerted. That's what the
cops do, and they do a good job at It.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Can start outside your home today, Tim, can I just
ask you? And because yes, it's current, this is a
current situation. I mean, you're amongst the whole lot of
female politicians were they were they was there, chatter was their.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Talk of nervousness.
Speaker 5 (08:07):
With respect to what.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
That someone is actually throwing a rock through a politicians window.
Speaker 5 (08:15):
Absolutely, there's concern about this because it happens not just
to MP's, It happens to people in local government. It
happens to all sorts of people. It's not okay. I
think most of us have personal experiences. I've had Garza protesters,
you know, vandalize my car on three occasions, but I
haven't had anyone trying to break into my house. But
I know female colleagues in the National Party who have
(08:35):
had this kind of thing at their home. It's not okay.
We should all be joining together to pass the law
so that then we meet Ginny's new threshold, which is
if you break the law, well let's make it legal.
It's really easy. Support the bill.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Take a short break and be back with Ginny Anderson
and Tim Costly. I want to ask them gosh so much.
I want to ask them about the benefit changes. I
want to ask them about the vaping laws or the
not vaping laws, the fact that that this government is
actually giving flavored vapes to people giving them.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Paying for them.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Politics Thursday with Jenny, Ginny Anderson and Tim Costley. Tim,
I want to start with you health. New Zealand is
funding more vape kits for smokers wanting to quit. Over
a half a million dollars has already been spent. Why
are we buying vapes from vaping companies normally owned by
big tobacco companies with flavors like cinnamon and blueberry?
Speaker 5 (09:31):
Were doing it because smoking sucks. And I'm not a
fan of vaping either, but I hate smoking more. If
you're not smoking, don't start, don't start vaping. But if
you are smoking cigarettes, vaping is safer. A third of
the people in that pilot trial that you're referring to
quit smoking completely. That's a really good win as we
work towards that, you know, smoke free in New Zealand,
which is less than five percent.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
But this is the government that got a lot of
all the new initiatives that Labour put in to stop
smoke people smoking, isn't.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
It Well clearly not, because we're talking about one right
now and everything that we can do to stop people
smoking is a really good thing.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Ginny, why wouldn't the new government, the government and power
right now actually just follow the Australian lead on this.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
That's a really good question, Nick. And you know, these
are the guys that scrap New Zealand's smoke free legislation.
My kids would have grown up in New Zealand in
a smoke free country. What they've done is scrap that
and it would have saved five thousand lives. And now
we know they've given tax breaks tobacco companies. We know
there's some unholy alliance that's going on there, and now
(10:34):
we see this. We see flavored vapes, which we know
get into the hands of young people being freely given
to people as a way. There are much better ways
to get off smoking than giving people cinnamon flavored vapes.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Yeah, and Tim, the Australian system with the pharmaceugical vapes
is working, and it's got no flavors. It's making it
like you're taking, you know, like an aspirin for a headache.
That they're simplifying it and not glorifying it where you
guys are glorifying it now.
Speaker 5 (11:03):
I think you're getting a little bit, a little bit
beyond the facts. There were three flavors and that's all.
This isn't a you go shopping and pick what you
want the Australian one. I was a fan of the
sort of prescription only initially, but the more you look
at it and you see now the huge ilicit tobacco
and vake market over there, it's not the success story
that I think you're making it out to be. But
what I think we can all agree on is that
(11:25):
we want to see people stop smoking, were vaping can
help that. I think it's a good thing, but it's
not the Beagle and end All for everyone. But if
it's getting you know, fifteen hundred people and six months
off smoking, that's good.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Tom.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
I'm struggling to understand where you don't think cinnamon and
blueberry are flavors and you know, like enticing people. And
I want to know when you think that we're going
to be smoke free.
Speaker 5 (11:49):
No, what I said was there were three flavors. It
was meant tobacco on watermelon. They were the only three
flavors to choose from, and there was only one nicotine strength.
Because this was entirely about getting people off smoking. I
hope we're going to be smoke free, and member smoke
free is a less than five percent target. It's been
tracking down, remarks akably. Well, it's gone from sort of
sixteen point four percent, you know, fourteen years ago now
(12:12):
to around six I hope we'll be smoke free within
a year.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
But vape they are increasing. It's young people on vapes
that is the biggest increasing factor. And we know that
these flavors like mentor, you know, all these fruity flavors,
they're targeted at young people. So having these things freely
available is just this government is treating health. New Zealand
like it's a vape shop and people can see.
Speaker 5 (12:35):
That, and so why didn't you ban it?
Speaker 3 (12:39):
We did.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
We took active sty those flavors off, and we took
active steps to stop vape shops from opening in those areas.
And so don't even start lecturing me on smoking, because
your government has cosied up to tobacco companies. You've given
them tax cuts when keys are struggling with the cost
of living. And I think that's the real reason with
decisions like this. It's national and the tobacco companies cozing up,
(13:01):
and we all know there's some strong friendships in there.
Speaker 5 (13:04):
Well, methinks the Lady Doth protests too much because that's
quite the overaction for me, Saint White, if that's what
you believe in.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Chris Biship was a tobacco lobbyist. Let's be frank. We
all know that he worked for Philip Morris as a
tobacco lobbyist before he became a pologist.
Speaker 5 (13:17):
And Nichola Willis worked for Fonterra. It doesn't mean she's
a dairy cow, now, does it. What we're talking about
is find way to.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Get people a cigarette.
Speaker 5 (13:27):
Walk that one back, Well, we should back our farmers
at least we've got a government that does. The point
is we are still working towards that five percent goal.
Labour now in opposition love to have all these grand
ideas about what they would be doing, but they didn't
do it when they had a complete majority. It's a
bit wretch to now try and lecture everybody else about
what she'd like your kids to grow up with when
(13:47):
she wasn't making a difference when she had the chance.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
I'm still grappling with images of Nicola Willis as a
dairy cow. Sorry, I'm obviously need to get over that one.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Let's talk Giny. I want to come to you first
on this.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Parents are earning, The parents that are earning more than
sixty five thousand dollars will have to be the one
supporting eighteen and nineteen year olds looking for work after
the changes to the job seeker benefit.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
What slabors take on this?
Speaker 3 (14:09):
What I mean you would have been overseas when this happened,
but you would have seen it and you would know
about it.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
I kind of take a step back and think, what
is the problem we're trying to solve here, And the
problem is we don't have jobs. We've lost jobs whether
they're in you know they're in the white cut, all
those pulp mills closing. We've seen big closures and Nelson
with sea lords and also they've had another male clothes
in there. There aren't jobs in the regions and so
having the Prime Minister making it harder for eighteen or
(14:36):
nineteen year olds to get support and telling them to
go look for a job in the regions just shows
how completely out of touch he is. And all this
will really do, Nick is it will make life even
harder for those families that are right on the breadline.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Tim The issue that I have with this is I
think the sixty five thousand dollars cutoff is far too low.
And I also want to know what your standards of
things like solo parents or split parents.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
How do you evaluate that?
Speaker 5 (15:08):
Yeah, so there's two criteria right, one, does the young
person have a parent that has the means to support
them and too then what is their income level? So
that is taken care of. There are some people on
the young parent payment they still receive that there's no
change to those to those what this is is about
a bigger thing. It's about the signal that we are
sending to young people that we don't believe a life
(15:29):
living on the benefit is the right option. And sadly
we know the truth that when people get on the
benefit from a young age, they tend to stick there
for a very long time. It's not just about saying
you should be working. It's about saying you should be
building up for a big career, a successful career in life.
You should be in training, you should be on an apprenticeship,
you could be working, you could be studying at a university.
There are options out there. And if I look at
(15:52):
livin part of my electorate, the great program that you
call were running training people for building and construction shut
down because there weren't enough people interested because there were
easier ways for them to get by. Well, we're saying, actually,
that's not okay. There are options out there, There are
place is on course, there are a number of viable options,
and I don't apologize for the fact that we want
young people to have a future.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
Well, the problem I have with fat Nick is that
this government has increased university fees, they've cut the apprenticeship
boost at a time when we've lost twenty thousand jobs
from our construction sector. No longer can you get the
apprenticeship boost for civil engineering. You know, this is a
government that has done absolutely nothing to encourage or incentivize
(16:34):
young people into improving their skills or their employment opportunities.
All they've done is coming with a stick and taken
job seeker of eighteen and nineteen year olds and made
parents who are already struggling with the cost of living
having to look after them.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Local elections, Well, can we go to local elections? Tim,
what's happening in your area? I mean, I'm a little
bit out of the loop on what's happening in your area, Tim,
what's happening in capity.
Speaker 5 (17:02):
Well, there's something like seventy three people across all the
the mayor, the council and the myriad community boards that
we have. It's a lot of people, and I note
that they are all campaigning on we should cut rates,
we should stop rate increases, we should cut spending, we
should be more efficient. I'd love it if they did
that when they're in council or if they get onto council,
(17:24):
because it's absolutely the right approach. We need to see
careful council spending to keep rates under control and to
invest money where it makes a real difference.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
How closely central government keeping an eye on things. Are
they watching this with any great interest?
Speaker 5 (17:39):
Well, in terms of the national party, we don't believe
in sort of political parties getting involved, as we don't
stand candidates. Well, like anyone, I watch it. I keep
up with what's going on in my area. I meet
with the mayor and councilors and council staff all the time.
I was with them last week. So yeah, of course
I'm interested to see what happens and see how it progresses.
(17:59):
But I don't want to be the guy out there
saying this is who you should support or shouldn't support,
and our party is going to do this. I think
it's just a local community voice that matters.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
And is there a.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Close Is there any one of yours that are close
that you're waiting with bita breath to see who gets through?
Speaker 5 (18:15):
Nope?
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Nope, Okay, Jinny, that's a different story for you. I
mean the races really started the heat up.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
It is, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (18:23):
It is?
Speaker 5 (18:24):
It is?
Speaker 4 (18:24):
And the decider I think it's going to be the
voter tune out, like who you know. In my house
right now, there's some envelopes sitting on our kitchen table,
and so they filled out and they're all filled out
and it's my job tomorrow to go and drop them
off at the hot city count for.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Our listeners that don't know your hot city, so we
better be sure of that.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
Yeah. So I would encourage anybody in whether you're out
in the Hut or in Wellington or even company, that
if you've got those envelopes on your table, fill them
out and take them into your local library or your
local council.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Okay, now who's your pick? I mean, who do you think?
I asking you who you voted for? I'm just saying
who do you think? I mean, because I think there's
three viable three contenders.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
Yea, there would be easy. Look, I think he's got
the strong support of the Hut community and behind him
his strength on the not only the regional council, but
his involvement in stuff like getting young kids involved in sport.
He's really tuned some lives around and why are mutter
And I've seen those girls who have now got contracts
in League in Queensland and places like that. He's done
(19:25):
a great job. So yeah, I think he'd be a
great leader for us.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
And you've got Brady and Karen as well.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
Brady and Karen are both excellent candidates and they're working
incredibly hard. So it's going to really depend on how
many people get out and vote.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
There you go, who you picking?
Speaker 4 (19:40):
My money's on Ken. He's a good guy and I
think he'd represent the hut.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Well, okay, there you go. Is he is he standing
with labor? Has he got labor?
Speaker 4 (19:47):
Is he?
Speaker 2 (19:48):
I don't think? I mean he's got strong roots to it.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
Well, he's got a sister who was a Capnet minister.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Labor Huts, South MP Ginny Anderson and National Techi to Costly.
I appreciate you both coming on the show.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Have a great weekend.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Look forward to Santa elections and election you're sort of
excited by Yeah, I.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
Do, Yeah, of course you watch. Yeah, very exciting. Do
you know what time it's going to come out?
Speaker 3 (20:14):
I think about two o'clock in the afternoon, I believe.
I think it's kind of like not that late in
the afternoon. I think we find out in the afternoon. Said,
I'm looking forward to it. Jenny Hansen and Tim Costley,
thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
For time this morning.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk said b focusing in on the issues
that matter. Politics Thursday on Wellington Mornings, news Talk said by.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
That's shine Gen you make your decision. Love. Welcome back
at seven minutes past eleven.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Politics Thursday, Labor South MP Ginny Anderson joins me in
the studio spokesperson for Job and Come.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
Morning, Jinny Cowder, Good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Now you've just had a bit of a holiday. You've
just been away.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
Up I did. I went with my family overseas to
celebrate my husband's sixtieth birthday.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Wow, fantastic. Well you please to be hoped, Yes, to be.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Honest, it's it's been a whelwind of a week. I
arrived home on Monday and so I think leag's just
starting to wear off.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Now, okay, let's try and get you through this half
hour quickly. Then National O Techi MP Tim Costly disappointed
that you're not in the studio with us today, Tim.
I wanted to be part of your Instagram pig. I
wanted to get to become a star.
Speaker 5 (01:15):
I'm disappointed as well. Maybe we need to we need
to sort something out. But the house is sitting and
I've been in the House and Select Committee all morning
and I've just snuck out for this. So next time,
let's let's put something in that's gonna it's gonna be great.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
You were just a bit scared of Ginny. I know.
I don't blame you. I know she can be a
bit aggressive.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Last week, the protest at Winston Peter's home turned violent,
with a man now arrested for smashing his window with
a rock. I think it was actually a crowbar, but
but anyway. This was, of course, after actress and activists
Acacia O'Connor leaked his Winston's address into the public and
encouraged the protest for Palestine. Oh gosh, Jinny, Jinny, Jinny, Ginny,
(01:57):
what are your thoughts on the new law being brought
in to stop people being able to protest outside politicians' homes.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Well, let's be clear, what happened at Winston places absolutely unacceptable.
There's no reason at all for there to be that
sort of level of violence in protest. People have a
right to protest, that's part of our democracy, but not
when they break the law.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Would you back this law?
Speaker 4 (02:21):
We haven't backed it because it was pretty unclear about
the detail of where as a house, and so there's some.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Real contim because I would be sure that you would
back it after what stuff to Zinda had to go through.
I mean, you know she had to go through similar stuff,
So why wouldn't you back there being a law that
prevents people. I mean, I'd hate people to go out
of your house.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
We don't think it's right that people should be outside houses.
But largely from my experience when I was Minister of Police,
there's a good swathe of laws in there that we
can use. If they're disturbing the peace, if they're disrupting
the public, if they're doing any kind of vandalism, then
that is the job of the police to get in
there and arrest people for doing those things. So I'm
(03:05):
just not quite convinced that you need a new law
if you're going to police see sort of things properly.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Tim, do you think the Greens should stand up and
take ownership of this. I mean that's sort of hiding
behind everyone, not sort of omitting to anything.
Speaker 5 (03:20):
Yeah, look, the Greens and Labor absolutely need to step
up and take some ownership here. For the police to
going and to arrest someone there has to be a law.
We're putting a law through that prohibits this. You know,
on Tuesday we had the Labor leader saying that that's
not okay to protest there. The Justice spokesperson said it was.
But they won't back the bill. They won't vote for it.
You've got the Green Party and Labor in the past
(03:42):
that have been, you know, crying foul. They've had an
MP stand down because of intimidation and poor behavior apparently,
and yet they're not willing to back meaningful stuff that
will actually actually make a difference. This is complete contradiction
and no one's buying it. They need to actually just say,
do you know what good point? We got that wrong.
We're coming back the law.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Ginny, what was your thoughts on a case you're O'Connor
getting canceled? Basically she lost her job and one New
Zealand commercial. What were your thoughts when you first saw that.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
I just was trying to kind of keep up with
it to be honest of what was what was evolving.
I mean, those are really questions for the Green Party
in terms of how they conduct their press conferences and
who they associate with. So it's pretty difficult to get
a pass judgment when I wasn't over exactly. You know
what's going on there, and really it's up to One
(04:31):
New Zealand. You know that they're a commercial entity. It's
their decision about who represents them and if they consider
that there is risk to their reputation, that's a decision
that they can take.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Tim How bad is this looking for the Greens?
Speaker 5 (04:44):
Yeah, it doesn't look good, does it. I mean Chlos
Warbrick was hosting her at a press conference. This is
you know, the activist that did this. Describe yourself in
the media as a humble, loving actor, but if you
read her social media post, it was vile. It had
horrific language. It was offensive to both Winston Peter's the
Prime Minister and the deputy prime minister. And yet the
Greens just won't back down. No one knows what they believe.
(05:08):
I think they believe in whatever's best for the Greens.
But this is appalling. Everyone in Parliament should be united
saying this kind of behavior is not okay. We're going
to back the law that will put an end to
some of it. And I cannot understand why Jenny won't
just turn around right now and say, actually, Yep, we'll
back that law. It's a good thing to do.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
I'm a bit surprised by that too, Jenny, because I
would have thought, you know, that you would be a
little bit nervous of the whole situation of well what
you say when you say it and go home to
your family.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
People have a right in our democracy at to protest,
and we need to be wary of trying to stop
people who have a democratic right to do that. But
there is a clear line, and is that if they
break the law, if they intimidate people in a way
that they are destroying property.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
This is what this law's doing, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
But so many times as Minister of Police, you'd have
someone with a smart idea come along and say police
need this, And there are laws existing already such as
just doing the peace in terms of causing or even
blocking people getting access into areas.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
That they have been me and you have had this
conversation before when you were a police minister. We've had
this actual conversation where I've said to you, are you okay?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Do you know?
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Because there was some stuff coming at you as well
as a female and you're a minister of police, big
position I'm sorry, but this sort of surprises me that
you're not for this law change.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
What I believe in is it's important that we have
a healthy democracy, and I'm really proud of the fact that,
no matter what the changes we've seen in post COVID,
which is quite dramatic, to be honest, in terms of
the polarization of political I think I think it's incredibly
important that politicians remain available and are able to talk
to people and engage with people. And so there is Yep,
(06:58):
everybody's got a right to protest, but if they break
the law as they did with Winston Peters, they are
due to be prosecuted as that person was.
Speaker 5 (07:07):
But this is the fundamental question, right is it okay?
And I'd love to hear this from Jenny, because you
just said everyone has the right to protest. Is it
okay to protest outside Jenny's home or Torry Farno's home
or any other public figure, Because we're saying that's not okay,
It was not okay to disturb their families and their neighbors,
and we're trying to pass a law to stop that.
Labor are refusing to support it, and yet they're kind
(07:29):
of saying, well, it's not okay, but actually eyone has
a right to do it. So what is the Labor
Party position on this? Because I don't think anyone understands right.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
Now, I've been incredibly clear people have a right to protest.
If they break the law outside your home need to
be they need to be prosecuted. If someone is outside
of home and they've broken the law, they shall be
prosecuted and the police will be alerted. That's what the
cops do, and they do a good job at It.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Can start outside your home today, Tim, can I just
ask you? And because yes, it's current, this is a
current situation. I mean, you're amongst the whole lot of
female politicians were they were they was there, chatter was their.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Talk of nervousness.
Speaker 5 (08:07):
With respect to what.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
That someone is actually throwing a rock through a politicians window.
Speaker 5 (08:15):
Absolutely, there's concern about this because it happens not just
to MP's, It happens to people in local government. It
happens to all sorts of people. It's not okay. I
think most of us have personal experiences. I've had Garza protesters,
you know, vandalize my car on three occasions, but I
haven't had anyone trying to break into my house. But
I know female colleagues in the National Party who have
(08:35):
had this kind of thing at their home. It's not okay.
We should all be joining together to pass the law
so that then we meet Ginny's new threshold, which is
if you break the law, well let's make it legal.
It's really easy. Support the bill.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Take a short break and be back with Ginny Anderson
and Tim Costly. I want to ask them gosh so much.
I want to ask them about the benefit changes. I
want to ask them about the vaping laws or the
not vaping laws, the fact that that this government is
actually giving flavored vapes to people giving them.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Paying for them.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Politics Thursday with Jenny, Ginny Anderson and Tim Costley. Tim,
I want to start with you health. New Zealand is
funding more vape kits for smokers wanting to quit. Over
a half a million dollars has already been spent. Why
are we buying vapes from vaping companies normally owned by
big tobacco companies with flavors like cinnamon and blueberry?
Speaker 5 (09:31):
Were doing it because smoking sucks. And I'm not a
fan of vaping either, but I hate smoking more. If
you're not smoking, don't start, don't start vaping. But if
you are smoking cigarettes, vaping is safer. A third of
the people in that pilot trial that you're referring to
quit smoking completely. That's a really good win as we
work towards that, you know, smoke free in New Zealand,
which is less than five percent.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
But this is the government that got a lot of
all the new initiatives that Labour put in to stop
smoke people smoking, isn't.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
It Well clearly not, because we're talking about one right
now and everything that we can do to stop people
smoking is a really good thing.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Ginny, why wouldn't the new government, the government and power
right now actually just follow the Australian lead on this.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
That's a really good question, Nick. And you know, these
are the guys that scrap New Zealand's smoke free legislation.
My kids would have grown up in New Zealand in
a smoke free country. What they've done is scrap that
and it would have saved five thousand lives. And now
we know they've given tax breaks tobacco companies. We know
there's some unholy alliance that's going on there, and now
(10:34):
we see this. We see flavored vapes, which we know
get into the hands of young people being freely given
to people as a way. There are much better ways
to get off smoking than giving people cinnamon flavored vapes.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Yeah, and Tim, the Australian system with the pharmaceugical vapes
is working, and it's got no flavors. It's making it
like you're taking, you know, like an aspirin for a headache.
That they're simplifying it and not glorifying it where you
guys are glorifying it now.
Speaker 5 (11:03):
I think you're getting a little bit, a little bit
beyond the facts. There were three flavors and that's all.
This isn't a you go shopping and pick what you
want the Australian one. I was a fan of the
sort of prescription only initially, but the more you look
at it and you see now the huge ilicit tobacco
and vake market over there, it's not the success story
that I think you're making it out to be. But
what I think we can all agree on is that
(11:25):
we want to see people stop smoking, were vaping can
help that. I think it's a good thing, but it's
not the Beagle and end All for everyone. But if
it's getting you know, fifteen hundred people and six months
off smoking, that's good.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Tom.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
I'm struggling to understand where you don't think cinnamon and
blueberry are flavors and you know, like enticing people. And
I want to know when you think that we're going
to be smoke free.
Speaker 5 (11:49):
No, what I said was there were three flavors. It
was meant tobacco on watermelon. They were the only three
flavors to choose from, and there was only one nicotine strength.
Because this was entirely about getting people off smoking. I
hope we're going to be smoke free, and member smoke
free is a less than five percent target. It's been
tracking down, remarks akably. Well, it's gone from sort of
sixteen point four percent, you know, fourteen years ago now
(12:12):
to around six I hope we'll be smoke free within
a year.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
But vape they are increasing. It's young people on vapes
that is the biggest increasing factor. And we know that
these flavors like mentor, you know, all these fruity flavors,
they're targeted at young people. So having these things freely
available is just this government is treating health. New Zealand
like it's a vape shop and people can see.
Speaker 5 (12:35):
That, and so why didn't you ban it?
Speaker 3 (12:39):
We did.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
We took active sty those flavors off, and we took
active steps to stop vape shops from opening in those areas.
And so don't even start lecturing me on smoking, because
your government has cosied up to tobacco companies. You've given
them tax cuts when keys are struggling with the cost
of living. And I think that's the real reason with
decisions like this. It's national and the tobacco companies cozing up,
(13:01):
and we all know there's some strong friendships in there.
Speaker 5 (13:04):
Well, methinks the Lady Doth protests too much because that's
quite the overaction for me, Saint White, if that's what
you believe in.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Chris Biship was a tobacco lobbyist. Let's be frank. We
all know that he worked for Philip Morris as a
tobacco lobbyist before he became a pologist.
Speaker 5 (13:17):
And Nichola Willis worked for Fonterra. It doesn't mean she's
a dairy cow, now, does it. What we're talking about
is find way to.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Get people a cigarette.
Speaker 5 (13:27):
Walk that one back, Well, we should back our farmers
at least we've got a government that does. The point
is we are still working towards that five percent goal.
Labour now in opposition love to have all these grand
ideas about what they would be doing, but they didn't
do it when they had a complete majority. It's a
bit wretch to now try and lecture everybody else about
what she'd like your kids to grow up with when
(13:47):
she wasn't making a difference when she had the chance.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
I'm still grappling with images of Nicola Willis as a
dairy cow. Sorry, I'm obviously need to get over that one.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Let's talk Giny. I want to come to you first
on this.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Parents are earning, The parents that are earning more than
sixty five thousand dollars will have to be the one
supporting eighteen and nineteen year olds looking for work after
the changes to the job seeker benefit.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
What slabors take on this?
Speaker 3 (14:09):
What I mean you would have been overseas when this happened,
but you would have seen it and you would know
about it.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
I kind of take a step back and think, what
is the problem we're trying to solve here, And the
problem is we don't have jobs. We've lost jobs whether
they're in you know they're in the white cut, all
those pulp mills closing. We've seen big closures and Nelson
with sea lords and also they've had another male clothes
in there. There aren't jobs in the regions and so
having the Prime Minister making it harder for eighteen or
(14:36):
nineteen year olds to get support and telling them to
go look for a job in the regions just shows
how completely out of touch he is. And all this
will really do, Nick is it will make life even
harder for those families that are right on the breadline.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Tim The issue that I have with this is I
think the sixty five thousand dollars cutoff is far too low.
And I also want to know what your standards of
things like solo parents or split parents.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
How do you evaluate that?
Speaker 5 (15:08):
Yeah, so there's two criteria right, one, does the young
person have a parent that has the means to support
them and too then what is their income level? So
that is taken care of. There are some people on
the young parent payment they still receive that there's no
change to those to those what this is is about
a bigger thing. It's about the signal that we are
sending to young people that we don't believe a life
(15:29):
living on the benefit is the right option. And sadly
we know the truth that when people get on the
benefit from a young age, they tend to stick there
for a very long time. It's not just about saying
you should be working. It's about saying you should be
building up for a big career, a successful career in life.
You should be in training, you should be on an apprenticeship,
you could be working, you could be studying at a university.
There are options out there. And if I look at
(15:52):
livin part of my electorate, the great program that you
call were running training people for building and construction shut
down because there weren't enough people interested because there were
easier ways for them to get by. Well, we're saying, actually,
that's not okay. There are options out there, There are
place is on course, there are a number of viable options,
and I don't apologize for the fact that we want
young people to have a future.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
Well, the problem I have with fat Nick is that
this government has increased university fees, they've cut the apprenticeship
boost at a time when we've lost twenty thousand jobs
from our construction sector. No longer can you get the
apprenticeship boost for civil engineering. You know, this is a
government that has done absolutely nothing to encourage or incentivize
(16:34):
young people into improving their skills or their employment opportunities.
All they've done is coming with a stick and taken
job seeker of eighteen and nineteen year olds and made
parents who are already struggling with the cost of living
having to look after them.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Local elections, Well, can we go to local elections? Tim,
what's happening in your area? I mean, I'm a little
bit out of the loop on what's happening in your area, Tim,
what's happening in capity.
Speaker 5 (17:02):
Well, there's something like seventy three people across all the
the mayor, the council and the myriad community boards that
we have. It's a lot of people, and I note
that they are all campaigning on we should cut rates,
we should stop rate increases, we should cut spending, we
should be more efficient. I'd love it if they did
that when they're in council or if they get onto council,
(17:24):
because it's absolutely the right approach. We need to see
careful council spending to keep rates under control and to
invest money where it makes a real difference.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
How closely central government keeping an eye on things. Are
they watching this with any great interest?
Speaker 5 (17:39):
Well, in terms of the national party, we don't believe
in sort of political parties getting involved, as we don't
stand candidates. Well, like anyone, I watch it. I keep
up with what's going on in my area. I meet
with the mayor and councilors and council staff all the time.
I was with them last week. So yeah, of course
I'm interested to see what happens and see how it progresses.
(17:59):
But I don't want to be the guy out there
saying this is who you should support or shouldn't support,
and our party is going to do this. I think
it's just a local community voice that matters.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
And is there a.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Close Is there any one of yours that are close
that you're waiting with bita breath to see who gets through?
Speaker 5 (18:15):
Nope?
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Nope, Okay, Jinny, that's a different story for you. I
mean the races really started the heat up.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
It is, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (18:23):
It is?
Speaker 5 (18:24):
It is?
Speaker 4 (18:24):
And the decider I think it's going to be the
voter tune out, like who you know. In my house
right now, there's some envelopes sitting on our kitchen table,
and so they filled out and they're all filled out
and it's my job tomorrow to go and drop them
off at the hot city count for.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Our listeners that don't know your hot city, so we
better be sure of that.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
Yeah. So I would encourage anybody in whether you're out
in the Hut or in Wellington or even company, that
if you've got those envelopes on your table, fill them
out and take them into your local library or your
local council.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Okay, now who's your pick? I mean, who do you think?
I asking you who you voted for? I'm just saying
who do you think? I mean, because I think there's
three viable three contenders.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
Yea, there would be easy. Look, I think he's got
the strong support of the Hut community and behind him
his strength on the not only the regional council, but
his involvement in stuff like getting young kids involved in sport.
He's really tuned some lives around and why are mutter
And I've seen those girls who have now got contracts
in League in Queensland and places like that. He's done
(19:25):
a great job. So yeah, I think he'd be a
great leader for us.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
And you've got Brady and Karen as well.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
Brady and Karen are both excellent candidates and they're working
incredibly hard. So it's going to really depend on how
many people get out and vote.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
There you go, who you picking?
Speaker 4 (19:40):
My money's on Ken. He's a good guy and I
think he'd represent the hut.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Well, okay, there you go. Is he is he standing
with labor? Has he got labor?
Speaker 4 (19:47):
Is he?
Speaker 2 (19:48):
I don't think? I mean he's got strong roots to it.
Speaker 4 (19:51):
Well, he's got a sister who was a Capnet minister.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Labor Huts, South MP Ginny Anderson and National Techi to Costly.
I appreciate you both coming on the show.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Have a great weekend.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Look forward to Santa elections and election you're sort of
excited by Yeah, I.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
Do, Yeah, of course you watch. Yeah, very exciting. Do
you know what time it's going to come out?
Speaker 3 (20:14):
I think about two o'clock in the afternoon, I believe.
I think it's kind of like not that late in
the afternoon. I think we find out in the afternoon. Said,
I'm looking forward to it. Jenny Hansen and Tim Costley,
thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
For time this morning.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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