November 4, 2025 • 8 mins
Wellington GP and Senior Lecturer at Otago University, Dr Samantha Murton talks to Nick Mills about the impact of paracetamol.
After a new study shows that a third of Kiwis are taking more than the recommended dose, Dr Murton explains the effects and dangers this causes, as well as the causes of these statistics.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News talks'b.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Right now, we're lucky enough to have doctor Samantha Merton,
Willington GP and Senior Lecture at Otaga University. She's a
former president of the Royal New Zealand College of General
Practice and us join us right now live on the show.
Good morning, Good morning doctor.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
How are you?
Speaker 4 (00:31):
I'm very well, Thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Have you taken a couple of panadole this morning?
Speaker 4 (00:35):
No, I use pain relief? Really, Actually, what.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Did you make of these stats? What did you make
of the fact that one of three are taking more
than they should? And I believe we are taking panadole
and paracetamore like the vitamins now like Lolly's.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Yeah, No, I think it just shows a lack of
understanding of the potential toxicity of some of the medications
that are available. And so it's about education, it's about
making sure people do take the right dose. And I
think because it's so, like you say, readily available, people
think it's not harmful.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
So what about the idea that someone's got a running
nose and a headache and they know, feeling a little
bit fluy, so they take a lemps up and then
they think, you know straight away they think, well, lemps
ap and a couple of penadole.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Well, that's actually double in the dose, right there, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
Yeah? And I think people need to read what's in
the packaging of what they're taking, and also stick to
the recommendation on what dose you take, because with paracetamol,
it has to be processed in your liver, and the
higher dose that you take, the more difficult it is
you liver to process it, and therefore it becomes toxic.
So you want to have a dose that your liver
(01:47):
can process at a rate that's safe and taking more
than the recommended dosage. It doesn't matter how big you are.
You liver is probably much the same size, and here's
the same processing system as any other adult.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I want to go into that because I know lots
and lots of sports people that are six foot eight
and big guys, and they say, why would I take
the same amount of panidole?
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Was you nick?
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (02:09):
And I think people have this distorted view of their
body size means that every part of their body is bigger.
Hearts aren't necessarily bigger, livers aren't necessarily bigger. Your guts
just as long as everyone else's gut. It's just you've
got probably longer bones and more muscle. That's probably about
the difference that it make. So your organs, your internal
organs are very much reasonably standard in size, and so
(02:32):
even if you are a bigger person, it doesn't mean
that you need more medication, but also that your liver
processing is probably not any difference from anyone else's.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Why did GPS when they give out panadole give you
a box of about seven hundred I mean, on slight exaggeration, but.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
You're not well.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Yeah, I think we need to be cautious with our
prescribing as well. And I think the other thing is
that with pain relief, some people, you know, perception of
pain is different for everybody, and so like I said,
I don't take pain relief much, but that's because of
me in the way I am, and other people who
(03:11):
may need it more. But I think we do need
to be cautious about saying, you know, this is fine
to take every day. It's probably not find to take
every day. If you're on things like that for every
day for months on end, then yeah, it will slowly
cause harm as well.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
What do you say to those people?
Speaker 2 (03:26):
And I know a lot of them that take a
couple of pound at all before they go to bed
because they've had a hard day, they're bit stressed and
the shoulders don't feel right, you know, just normal stress stuff.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
They just take a couple of panal, I'll go to bed.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
I think if it's just if that's a one off occasional,
you know, every couple of weeks or on a bad night,
then that's fine. If it's every day, then it's not
a good idea. Find other things to do. Go and
have a bath, go for a walk, have a message,
do other stuff that is also very effective for managing
your pain.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Do you think GPS are over prescribing it?
Speaker 4 (04:01):
It varies from person to person. I think we sometimes
when you have a sitting in front of you who says,
I'm in pain every day and this is what I
need and pain. If you're taking pain relief, your pain
relief taking can escalate. So we need to be careful
about making sure that people aren't taking ever increasing doses
(04:22):
of pain relief because it's an intent that we sort
of tend to get. I suppose tolerant to the pain relief,
and therefore we require more. I think we really need
to recognize that pain is common, it's not necessarily completely
disruptive to our lives, and there are other things besides
a pill that will fix it. The problem with that
(04:44):
is that a walk for twenty minutes feels like it's
taking time out of your day. When you can take
a paracetamol and you can carry on doing what you're
doing in twenty minutes later, you feel better. So we
need to sort of think about what it else we
could do.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Do you think that this media attention to this particular story,
which is pretty big, well, actually jolt GPS into realize
and shove us. I've been given Nick the paracenamals all
the time. I should have told them what I should
have done. Do you reckon that might happen all?
Speaker 4 (05:11):
Well, I don't know. I think the thing about it
is it's more about patient perception as well, because we're
not a We represcribe medication, but we're based on the
story that we're told. And I think it's very hard
every day to say no, no, no, no no, and
so we are we prescribe within the parameters of the
(05:35):
discussion that we have with patients being able to have
a genuine discussion that takes a bit of time. Explaining
all the other stuff that could be done is hard
work on a daily basis. So yes, we should be
prescribing cautiously. I think patients should be expecting caution from
their doctors and not expecting us to just prescribe whatever
they want.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
A couple of quick ones and I'll let you go.
Were you concerned when you saw the stats that one
and three were taking more than they should?
Speaker 4 (06:00):
I think, yeah, because the thing about medication like that
is it's available not just from prescriptions, it's available at
the it's the supermarket. And so when you've got medications
like that that are available as supermarket, people think, oh, well,
they're defined, and so there's a level of control that
GPS or anyone who's prescribing does not have, so they
(06:21):
for patient. Can you it's good?
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Yeah, sorry to interrupt you.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
I thought you'd finished, But can you sort of put
an argument that I have in my house? Is there
a difference between spending twenty eight dollars for a pack
of twelve panad dole at a supermarket and getting a
box of five hundred paracetamal from the chemist warehouse.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
I think that shows the some of these medications are
produced cheaply, can be sold cheaply, and then you can
get volume. And I think we just need to be
careful about what the restrictions and volume ane. We were
strict caps on bottles to kids, and we just don't
think to do that for adults.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
But more I'm more interested to know your thoughts and
I think you're being cagy, which you probably professionally have
to be. But is there any difference in taking panidole
as a paracetamol or a cheap version from a cheap warehouse.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
I think that the ingredients the same, so there's no
difference between taking one version and another version. It's the
volume that you can get for the same price that's
the problem.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Yeah, okay, that's what I mean.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
I mean I was trying to get out whether it
was actually healthy and make sure you buy a panadole,
don't buy the cheap winds or vice versa. But you're
telling you're putting my Scottish heritage to trust and it's okay,
I'm feeling happy, I'm.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Feeling allowed them, but just don't buy five hundred.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
It's not good for you, Okay, Samantha.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
I really appreciate you coming on the show. I know
that you do a wonderful job for Wellington and New Zealand,
and I know I've spoken to so many women that
have had that know you or have you as had
had you as a doctor, and I don't think I've
ever had anyone say anything but extremely high praise. So
(08:05):
as a well I'm WELLINGTONI into another thank you for
everything you're doing and we appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News talks'b.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Right now, we're lucky enough to have doctor Samantha Merton,
Willington GP and Senior Lecture at Otaga University. She's a
former president of the Royal New Zealand College of General
Practice and us join us right now live on the show.
Good morning, Good morning doctor.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
How are you?
Speaker 4 (00:31):
I'm very well, Thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Have you taken a couple of panadole this morning?
Speaker 4 (00:35):
No, I use pain relief? Really, Actually, what.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Did you make of these stats? What did you make
of the fact that one of three are taking more
than they should? And I believe we are taking panadole
and paracetamore like the vitamins now like Lolly's.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Yeah, No, I think it just shows a lack of
understanding of the potential toxicity of some of the medications
that are available. And so it's about education, it's about
making sure people do take the right dose. And I
think because it's so, like you say, readily available, people
think it's not harmful.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
So what about the idea that someone's got a running
nose and a headache and they know, feeling a little
bit fluy, so they take a lemps up and then
they think, you know straight away they think, well, lemps
ap and a couple of penadole.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Well, that's actually double in the dose, right there, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
Yeah? And I think people need to read what's in
the packaging of what they're taking, and also stick to
the recommendation on what dose you take, because with paracetamol,
it has to be processed in your liver, and the
higher dose that you take, the more difficult it is
you liver to process it, and therefore it becomes toxic.
So you want to have a dose that your liver
(01:47):
can process at a rate that's safe and taking more
than the recommended dosage. It doesn't matter how big you are.
You liver is probably much the same size, and here's
the same processing system as any other adult.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I want to go into that because I know lots
and lots of sports people that are six foot eight
and big guys, and they say, why would I take
the same amount of panidole?
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Was you nick?
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (02:09):
And I think people have this distorted view of their
body size means that every part of their body is bigger.
Hearts aren't necessarily bigger, livers aren't necessarily bigger. Your guts
just as long as everyone else's gut. It's just you've
got probably longer bones and more muscle. That's probably about
the difference that it make. So your organs, your internal
organs are very much reasonably standard in size, and so
(02:32):
even if you are a bigger person, it doesn't mean
that you need more medication, but also that your liver
processing is probably not any difference from anyone else's.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Why did GPS when they give out panadole give you
a box of about seven hundred I mean, on slight exaggeration, but.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
You're not well.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Yeah, I think we need to be cautious with our
prescribing as well. And I think the other thing is
that with pain relief, some people, you know, perception of
pain is different for everybody, and so like I said,
I don't take pain relief much, but that's because of
me in the way I am, and other people who
(03:11):
may need it more. But I think we do need
to be cautious about saying, you know, this is fine
to take every day. It's probably not find to take
every day. If you're on things like that for every
day for months on end, then yeah, it will slowly
cause harm as well.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
What do you say to those people?
Speaker 2 (03:26):
And I know a lot of them that take a
couple of pound at all before they go to bed
because they've had a hard day, they're bit stressed and
the shoulders don't feel right, you know, just normal stress stuff.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
They just take a couple of panal, I'll go to bed.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
I think if it's just if that's a one off occasional,
you know, every couple of weeks or on a bad night,
then that's fine. If it's every day, then it's not
a good idea. Find other things to do. Go and
have a bath, go for a walk, have a message,
do other stuff that is also very effective for managing
your pain.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Do you think GPS are over prescribing it?
Speaker 4 (04:01):
It varies from person to person. I think we sometimes
when you have a sitting in front of you who says,
I'm in pain every day and this is what I
need and pain. If you're taking pain relief, your pain
relief taking can escalate. So we need to be careful
about making sure that people aren't taking ever increasing doses
(04:22):
of pain relief because it's an intent that we sort
of tend to get. I suppose tolerant to the pain relief,
and therefore we require more. I think we really need
to recognize that pain is common, it's not necessarily completely
disruptive to our lives, and there are other things besides
a pill that will fix it. The problem with that
(04:44):
is that a walk for twenty minutes feels like it's
taking time out of your day. When you can take
a paracetamol and you can carry on doing what you're
doing in twenty minutes later, you feel better. So we
need to sort of think about what it else we
could do.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Do you think that this media attention to this particular story,
which is pretty big, well, actually jolt GPS into realize
and shove us. I've been given Nick the paracenamals all
the time. I should have told them what I should
have done. Do you reckon that might happen all?
Speaker 4 (05:11):
Well, I don't know. I think the thing about it
is it's more about patient perception as well, because we're
not a We represcribe medication, but we're based on the
story that we're told. And I think it's very hard
every day to say no, no, no, no no, and
so we are we prescribe within the parameters of the
(05:35):
discussion that we have with patients being able to have
a genuine discussion that takes a bit of time. Explaining
all the other stuff that could be done is hard
work on a daily basis. So yes, we should be
prescribing cautiously. I think patients should be expecting caution from
their doctors and not expecting us to just prescribe whatever
they want.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
A couple of quick ones and I'll let you go.
Were you concerned when you saw the stats that one
and three were taking more than they should?
Speaker 4 (06:00):
I think, yeah, because the thing about medication like that
is it's available not just from prescriptions, it's available at
the it's the supermarket. And so when you've got medications
like that that are available as supermarket, people think, oh, well,
they're defined, and so there's a level of control that
GPS or anyone who's prescribing does not have, so they
(06:21):
for patient. Can you it's good?
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Yeah, sorry to interrupt you.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
I thought you'd finished, But can you sort of put
an argument that I have in my house? Is there
a difference between spending twenty eight dollars for a pack
of twelve panad dole at a supermarket and getting a
box of five hundred paracetamal from the chemist warehouse.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
I think that shows the some of these medications are
produced cheaply, can be sold cheaply, and then you can
get volume. And I think we just need to be
careful about what the restrictions and volume ane. We were
strict caps on bottles to kids, and we just don't
think to do that for adults.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
But more I'm more interested to know your thoughts and
I think you're being cagy, which you probably professionally have
to be. But is there any difference in taking panidole
as a paracetamol or a cheap version from a cheap warehouse.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
I think that the ingredients the same, so there's no
difference between taking one version and another version. It's the
volume that you can get for the same price that's
the problem.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Yeah, okay, that's what I mean.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
I mean I was trying to get out whether it
was actually healthy and make sure you buy a panadole,
don't buy the cheap winds or vice versa. But you're
telling you're putting my Scottish heritage to trust and it's okay,
I'm feeling happy, I'm.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Feeling allowed them, but just don't buy five hundred.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
It's not good for you, Okay, Samantha.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
I really appreciate you coming on the show. I know
that you do a wonderful job for Wellington and New Zealand,
and I know I've spoken to so many women that
have had that know you or have you as had
had you as a doctor, and I don't think I've
ever had anyone say anything but extremely high praise. So
(08:05):
as a well I'm WELLINGTONI into another thank you for
everything you're doing and we appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live
to news talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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