November 5, 2025 • 23 mins
On Politics Thursday this week Nick Mills was joined by Labour MP Ayesha Verrall and National's Wairarapa MP Mike Butterick.
They discussed the new unemployment figures which are up to 5.3%, the highest since 2016, talking reactions, causes and ways to recover.
Verrall and Butterick then spoke on the political issues of the week, including the rumours of a bill to ban homelessness in CBDs, sick leave, water safety funding and if they would ban fireworks.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk SIB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
We've got politics Thursday. We're just waiting to get Mike
Butterick up online. But where I'm here with Aisha Vera.
Good morning, I Sha, nice to have you here. What's
happened in Parliament this week? Give us a rundown before
we get Mike on it, get into the questions.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Well, we have had, as always, lots of lots of legislation,
including the controversial Regulatory Standards bills going through. It was
of interest to us how New Zealand first was going
to vote for that. Looks like they will vote for
it at the minute. And then, of course yesterday quite
strange events. The Prime Minister didn't turn up for question
(00:51):
time yesterday, which was a surprise to us. Normally prime
ministers they're in New Zealand, they're there for question time
on Tuesday and Wednesday, and not quite sure why he
wasn't there.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Okay, well, Mike Butterick might be able to fill us
in with that. He's the MP for wire Rapper and
he joins us. Now, Good morning, Mike, Good morning.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Mike, Yeah you're there. Can you hear me, I can
hear you.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Now loud ye? Good, okay, God right, what happened was
the Prime Minister.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Yesterday in regards to what sorry I.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Should have just said, he didn't turn up to question time?
Speaker 4 (01:28):
Oh asually, I think.
Speaker 5 (01:30):
Look, I'm not I'm not one hundred percent sure, but
I think the Prime Minister was meeting somebody from India.
But I'm not sure in terms of who that was.
But I think it was a very important meeting.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
So you know, was that shituled, Mike? I mean other
trade times in trouble? Is that why the Prime Minister
had to duck off at the last minute?
Speaker 4 (01:50):
No, Look, I'm sure, I don't I know what the
PM's schedule is. So look, there's something I can't speak to.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
All right, let's talk about unemployment. You can speak to that. Hopefully.
It has hit an eight year high at five point
three percent, Mike. Now we're talking about having one hundred
sixty thousand unemployed people in the country in over fourteen
thousand in Wellington. Wellington's unemployment, by the way, Mike, is
up fifty percent in the last two years.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
Yeah, we were.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Trying to I was trying to work out why anyone
would try and think this is a good story.
Speaker 5 (02:23):
Well, it's probably nothing that wasn't predicted.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
Nick.
Speaker 5 (02:27):
You know, when you Labor was in government, it was
predicted to be where it is. An actual factor was
predicted to be one hundred and sixty five thousand unemployed.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
We're about pick.
Speaker 5 (02:36):
Under that at one hundred and sixty thousand. But you know,
we're very focused on getting the infrastructure, that the building
blocks in place so that we can get an increase
in employment.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
I was trying to sell it as a positive narrative,
and it's not a positive thing, is it.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
Oh well, unemployment, it's never a positive thing, Nick.
Speaker 5 (02:55):
It's just a reflection on what was forecast when neighbor
was in government.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
We're about where that is, and it's just.
Speaker 5 (03:01):
A consequence of the economic situation we inherited.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Inherited II Shaw is might correct. Did you expect unemployment
to go to one hundred and sixty five thousand.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
What Mike is trying to use it as an excuse
here is that the Treasury issues these forecasts of what
unemployment is going to be. And if you recall, during
Labor we got an incredibly scary forecast that during COVID
there'd be ten percent unemployment. So we pulled out all
the stops and we had all the jobs for nature
programs and the wage subsidies that people didn't lose their
(03:31):
jobs during COVID, and so that terrible forecast wasn't realized.
Now nationals and government they've come in and Wellington. They've
cut public service jobs that's had flown impacts to retail
and hospitality. They've cut capital projects around the country and
construction workers have lost their jobs, and they're saying, oh, well,
it was always going to be bad, and not taking
(03:52):
responsibility for the fact that their own actions have made
a troubling economic outlook worse.
Speaker 5 (03:59):
Well, that's not correct, I share.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
You know. We've come up with the fast direct legislation.
Speaker 5 (04:03):
There's going to be seven billion dollars worth of project
starting Christmas time. Even just yesterday, send ten minerals in
Central Otago have been granted consent. That's three hundred and
fifty seven job direct jobs, about five hundred indirect jobs.
And interesting, the average salary is predicted to be a
bit overt tack over one hundred and forty thousand dollars.
With Auckland Port expansion one hundred and forty thousand jobs
(04:25):
overcoming decades. There's the Meldale housing development three and a
half thousand jobs, might High Village housing development and Nelson
that's twenty seven hundred jobs.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
So Mike, it's totally fair enough to say that these
are future projects that will bring jobs. Labour also believes
that doing construction will create create jobs. No one's disagreeing
with that. It was the fact that when you came
into government, National cut a lot of the Coying Aura
housing builds, a lot of school and hospital builds were interrupted,
(04:56):
and as a result of that, that means all those
people were laid off. Over twenty thousand workers from the
construction industry have gone to Australia. So that's the problem.
You may well be developing the pipeline. We welcome that,
but the problem is we're in this situation now because
of what you did after the election. That's why it's
so important. And what Chris Hipkins has said is that
(05:17):
once the project's underway, Labor is not going to cancel
it when we come into government.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Well that's good.
Speaker 5 (05:22):
Is It's just a shame you guys didn't support the
fast track project. But look, in reality, we know what
happens when interest rates are high. Interest rates are put
up when inflation is high. It was seven point three percent.
Interest rates went through the roof. People make decisions to
not build. It's as simple as that. And as we've
managed the economy and got interest rates or inflation back
under control, interest rates have come down. I was stilling
(05:44):
to build a builder and mastered in the other day.
There they are three hundred percent up on renovation works.
There's a massive demand coming up through the pipeline there,
so it is coming.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Can I just ask you, sorry, Mike, can I just
ask you if you've just admitted to saying that if
if the Mount Victoria tunnel starts, you're not going to
You're not going to stop it, You're going to keep going.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Well, that's been Chris Hapkin's commitment is once a once
a project has actually started, where.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Going to be How do you cify start?
Speaker 3 (06:20):
I mean, I think the thing that i'd that i'd
say there is there is a difference between a project
where there's earthworks and things happening in the real world
and pretend started project like all those roads of national
significance where there's been no funding appropriated to them and
no work underway, but have they really started? I don't
(06:43):
think so.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
See, I think i'd argue that that has started. There's
a crew working on that now putting plans together, so
that that has started.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Yeah. Look, once works, once the earth's being moved, I
think we can say a project's been started.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Okay, let's move on from that. I mean, I'm I
quite didn't quite get there, because I want to know
whether the you know, if I voted labor next election,
we're still going to get a second mount for tour
of tunnel. I think. I think that's whats want.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Could the has the tunnel work actually started? Is going
to break round for the end of this term, which
is what frisdships promise. It's the onus is on the
government to make sure that.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
I would say from the facts that I know that
the work has started because people are planning, drawing up things,
and designers are working. Engineers are working, so that's work started.
You can't start work without that.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
I think my wider point here is on across all
these roading projects to say that they're starting, not involve
the opposition and not commit money for it. I think
you know that's across the roads of National Significance project.
How can we, as a you know, in good faith,
as the major opposition party, say that we'll continue projects
where there's not a level of transparency about the funding
(07:56):
and what's actually going on. So if that information is
shared we can all behave responsibly.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
All right, let's move on and behave responsibly. Here Ruben's
swirling around the proposed bill to allow police to people
off the streets. Come on, Mike, tell me what the
hell's going on here, because I've never seen, you know,
Christopher Luxon stop a discussion in parliament quite like it.
He've got quite irate or not irate, but he I
(08:22):
didn't want to discuss it. What's going on? There's something
going on.
Speaker 5 (08:25):
I look in terms of the homeless, I guess we
should acknowledge that it is incredibly complex and I don't
think anyone would dispute there and there's a number of
things to consider and all options are on the table.
There has been nothing decided at all. Minister of Auckland
has been tasked with engaging with council NGOs that are
(08:46):
involved all those sorts of people.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
So Mike, I just want to I want to get
further than this I want to know where the a
Wellington's in the discussion as well, or is it just
because Simeon Brown's a Minister for Auckland and he's got
a bit more power than we've got down here and
we've got the same problems down here. I want to
know if there is genuine cushions that they're going to
do something about it, or is it just something that
(09:10):
is just more talk.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
No.
Speaker 5 (09:12):
Look, I mean you've obviously got to involve all the
stakeholders and that's the right thing to do, and so
there are discussions on going. Look, there's no decisions being made.
It's actually about look, we know there's a challenge here.
What are our options? That's really what the discussion is
all about.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Hi sure, what would labor do? Well?
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Firstly, it's good to hear Mike respond that this is
a complicated issue. Homelessness is a really complicated issue, and
I've heard from some of the businesses in the Wellington
CBD and the impact that rough sleepers in the CBD
are having on the feeling of safety of their own
(09:55):
customers and workers. Actually, the important thing here is that
it is complicated. But what happened with this government is
they refuse to belie it was complicated and moved everyone
out of emergency housing and now they're on the Street's
that's what's happened. That's how we've gone to having such
visible problems with homelessness.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
But we still had.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Them on the streets when we had.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
People much fewer, much fewer, And it's at least doubled
in the Auckland CBD. For sure, it is a much
bigger problem than it was. So one of the things
is that I'm so pleased National is admitting now that
this is a complex problem and we need to use
some of those solutions that we've trialed in parts of
(10:39):
the country. They need to be scaled up, like housing first.
But the thing is, they went to the last election
saying it was a simple problem and they'll just shut
the emergency accommodation and look what they did. All they
did is move the problem from one place to another. So, Mike,
what I want to know is that going to happen again.
Are you just going to move people from the CBD
to our own doorsteps in the suburbs, because I think
(11:00):
a lot of people in Wellington and Auckland would be
quite anxious about that.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Michael, Look, I've got to go to an air brake,
so can you please be very quick?
Speaker 4 (11:08):
Oh? Very quick?
Speaker 5 (11:08):
No, Look, I mean I should thank you a simplifying
and it is complex. We putting people in emergency hotels
for months and months and years was not the solution. Yes,
we are doing housing first places one hundred of three
two hundred already occupied the sorry of three hundred with
ten million dollars in for us sleeping. It is a
complex problem. And just like you're going to help us
or agree with our infrastructure projects, hopefully we can all
(11:31):
agree a way forward and try and alleviate some of
the pressures.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Right, I've got to take a quick break. You're listening
to one into Mornings and it's our Politics Thursday. If
you've just turned your radio on II, Shaviral and Mike
Butterick are on the show with us. It is nineteen
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Speaker 1 (14:28):
Digging in to get to the heart of the story.
It's Heather Duplicy Ellen Drive.
Speaker 9 (14:33):
Homelessness has been an issue, so.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
You are a time you are considering a band.
Speaker 9 (14:37):
I'm focused on antisocial behaviors.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
That are somebody in your party considering a band would see.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
You're trying to sort of get me to talk about
something that's out of my ministerial area.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
And is going on here.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Heather Duplicity Ellen Drive with One New Zealand back today
at four only on Youth Talks, eNB.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
I feel your pain, Heather, it's difficult dealing with politicians.
I feel your pain. I've got Iceaviril and Mike Butter.
I feel your pain. Talk about Sickly. Sickly is costing
New Zealand four point one seven billion dollars and it's
they say it's going to actually increase to five point
five billion dollars. I mean, you know it's ridiculous and labor.
(15:22):
You brought this in. I so you brought this in. Well,
it's you that brought in. You went from five days
to ten days, Nock.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
I know that you agree with me that employers employ
human beings, and human beings sometimes get sick. That is
a fact of life.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
They still got sick beforehand, we got five days.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Or indeed, and it's probably the case that after you know,
as Catherine rich from Business New Zealand said, people's understanding
of what to do when they're sick has changed and
there's more knowledge that you need.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
To Are you agreeving when you're making ten days.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
When you're sick? But I think it's a fair enough
concern for employers to raise about the about how we
manage this as a society because it is going to
get more.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Can't ignore me, I asked a question. You can know
you want to ignore me. But is there a great
that they went from five to ten days? Was it
too much? Maybe a six or seven days?
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Look, I think this is it no that people really need.
People really need to be off work when they're sick. Now,
I don't have sympathy for the issues that you are
correctly raising. Nick sick leavers for sickness, not like you,
as you're pointing out earlier when people were calling in
it's not holiday pay. I totally agree with you on that,
(16:40):
but the fact is human beings get sick. And the
other thing Catherine Rich from Business in New Zealand pointed out
in her comments on this is that the second highest
reason for taking sick leave, other than being sick yourself,
is because you're caring for someone who's sick, and she
pointed out that it's only going to become a bigger
issue as more people are caring for the older generations
as well as the younger generation.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Mike is a national considering bringing this back to five,
Is there any talk about what's going on? Four point
one one billion? That's a lot of money.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Yeah, and no this we're not.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
But I guess look, just in terms of what I
should said as well, you know, I think we've probably
got a bit more mature about what we do when
we are sick. The old the old soldier on or
take a concrete pill attitude that's certainly changed, you know,
and quite simply, you know, people were coming to work
crop and you know then that spreads through the workplace
as well, so we're probably a bit more mature about
it about our approach as well.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Why is it scientifically that that people get sick on
a Monday or a Friday? What scientifically that proven?
Speaker 5 (17:41):
Yeah, well, I mean it's sick levers for when you
are sick, not for any just because you want to
day off. So I think that's behoven on people.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
To be honest.
Speaker 5 (17:50):
But look, I mean it's you know, some of it
is confusing.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
There's compliance costs, you know.
Speaker 5 (17:57):
Look, that's why we're actually trying to sort out the
Holidays Act.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
So nothing from that to change it. That's it. And
if labor gets back and they're not going to change it.
So we've got what we've gott and we just got
to put up with it and get on with it.
That's what I've gotten from this CEO of Water Safety
New Zealand told us on this very show that forty
people are going to or could lose their lives. History
will tell us will lose their life with drowning preventable
(18:24):
drowning this coming summer. Now, that's a lot of families
are going to be distraught this time next year. Tim,
Why did ACC cut the funding to help educate these
people to prevent those deaths.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
You yeah, you made Mike, Sorry.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Mike sorry?
Speaker 4 (18:42):
What well? I hope it's like Tim Nick.
Speaker 7 (18:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (18:48):
Look, look, it's an operational decision first and foremost.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
You know, they've made it.
Speaker 5 (18:52):
They've looked at the return they were getting on it
or the benefit. You know, there's been a significant amount
of money over a long period of time put in
and I think it was close to eight hundred and
nine hundred thousand and financial year twenty twenty six. But
you know that they've taken a, like I say, an
operational decision. They have a view that you know, there
(19:13):
may be other programs like that take a take a.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
Maybe best served to.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
You can't take it well, I mean this is people's lives.
Have they got anything else in place to help educate them?
What are they going to do with that money?
Speaker 7 (19:27):
Well?
Speaker 5 (19:27):
Learning to swim as part of the New Zealand curriculum,
you know in that state's all students have got to
have opportunities to learn basic aquatic skills. And I don't
know if you remember back at school, you know you
learned to float, not to panic, those sorts of things,
and that students have got access to.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
The days when they had school pools and we did,
and the world's changed since then that this is bad,
bad business, I believe Aishavirah, what's your take on this?
What do you think should happen here.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Being around water in our recreation time as part of
the key we way of life, and we've got to
make it safe for people because too many people die
in the in the water. Look, I don't I don't
understand what it is with ACC and prevention, but they
always seem to be getting it wrong. I think that
there's so much that ACC should be doing in terms
(20:18):
of ye preventing deaths in the water, but also preventing
really expensive fools and older people and stuff, and yet
they never seem to really get their teeth into how
to run good prevention programs. And they they sit on
a big fund of our you know, for paying for
our future ACC costs. They are the organization that can
(20:39):
invest today to prevent harm and greater costs down the lines.
I don't understand why they seem to often beginning prevention
so wrong.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
And what do you say to those people that could
end up being one of those families that lose a
life because they weren't educated. I mean, this is ridiculous.
Speaker 5 (21:01):
Well look, I mean you know, obviously you always sympathize
with anybody that loses their life thought by any means
at all, But you know, look, it is about ACCV
made an operational decision.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
People will lose.
Speaker 5 (21:17):
You know, it won't be just be swimming. It'll be
car accidents, as I just said, It'll be taking falls,
It'll be a number of different things. You know, there
are endless ways that you could try and invest in
educational awareness programs, but you know they have a view
that it may best be served through the taker.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Right, very very.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Quickly, because I know you both got to go. Fireworks
Guy foks night last night. Winston Peters has come out
and said that it's going to be a non negotiable
for any coalition talks next election, that it's going to
be banned. I see, what is your view on firewek
I thought Guy falks last night, and I'm not a fireman,
and I didn't work and I didn't see any radio
or see anything. What's your view?
Speaker 3 (21:57):
My personal view is I love fireworks. They are part
of the fun of guy fawks And yet why do
idiots need to let them off near the zoo or
in high fire risk areas and wreck it for everyone else.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
Yeah, and look, I agree, you know what I say.
You can only do so much to protect people from
their own stupidity. I mean, I've seen fireworks go off
when it's blowing a howling gale, you know, in the
middle of a dry period. So first and foremost, it's
be safe to think about the consequences if it does
go wrong and climateic conditions.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Thank you both so much. Story that we had a
little technical issue at the beginning with you, Mike, but
nice to have you on the show. Eishavera. Always nice
to see you. Thank you very much. Have both have
a great week and a great weekend coming up, and
we'll catch you next week.
Speaker 9 (22:48):
It is past thank you.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
It's half past eleven when we come back. Really interesting,
I mean we're going to talk to someone from the
Royal New Zealand Aircraft Air Force. She Barbara Graham, not
only is a marine biologist, she's a soprano singer.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
And for more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen
live to news Talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio,
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talk SIB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
We've got politics Thursday. We're just waiting to get Mike
Butterick up online. But where I'm here with Aisha Vera.
Good morning, I Sha, nice to have you here. What's
happened in Parliament this week? Give us a rundown before
we get Mike on it, get into the questions.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
Well, we have had, as always, lots of lots of legislation,
including the controversial Regulatory Standards bills going through. It was
of interest to us how New Zealand first was going
to vote for that. Looks like they will vote for
it at the minute. And then, of course yesterday quite
strange events. The Prime Minister didn't turn up for question
(00:51):
time yesterday, which was a surprise to us. Normally prime
ministers they're in New Zealand, they're there for question time
on Tuesday and Wednesday, and not quite sure why he
wasn't there.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Okay, well, Mike Butterick might be able to fill us
in with that. He's the MP for wire Rapper and
he joins us. Now, Good morning, Mike, Good morning.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Mike, Yeah you're there. Can you hear me, I can
hear you.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Now loud ye? Good, okay, God right, what happened was
the Prime Minister.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Yesterday in regards to what sorry I.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Should have just said, he didn't turn up to question time?
Speaker 4 (01:28):
Oh asually, I think.
Speaker 5 (01:30):
Look, I'm not I'm not one hundred percent sure, but
I think the Prime Minister was meeting somebody from India.
But I'm not sure in terms of who that was.
But I think it was a very important meeting.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
So you know, was that shituled, Mike? I mean other
trade times in trouble? Is that why the Prime Minister
had to duck off at the last minute?
Speaker 4 (01:50):
No, Look, I'm sure, I don't I know what the
PM's schedule is. So look, there's something I can't speak to.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
All right, let's talk about unemployment. You can speak to that. Hopefully.
It has hit an eight year high at five point
three percent, Mike. Now we're talking about having one hundred
sixty thousand unemployed people in the country in over fourteen
thousand in Wellington. Wellington's unemployment, by the way, Mike, is
up fifty percent in the last two years.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
Yeah, we were.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Trying to I was trying to work out why anyone
would try and think this is a good story.
Speaker 5 (02:23):
Well, it's probably nothing that wasn't predicted.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
Nick.
Speaker 5 (02:27):
You know, when you Labor was in government, it was
predicted to be where it is. An actual factor was
predicted to be one hundred and sixty five thousand unemployed.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
We're about pick.
Speaker 5 (02:36):
Under that at one hundred and sixty thousand. But you know,
we're very focused on getting the infrastructure, that the building
blocks in place so that we can get an increase
in employment.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
I was trying to sell it as a positive narrative,
and it's not a positive thing, is it.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
Oh well, unemployment, it's never a positive thing, Nick.
Speaker 5 (02:55):
It's just a reflection on what was forecast when neighbor
was in government.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
We're about where that is, and it's just.
Speaker 5 (03:01):
A consequence of the economic situation we inherited.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Inherited II Shaw is might correct. Did you expect unemployment
to go to one hundred and sixty five thousand.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
What Mike is trying to use it as an excuse
here is that the Treasury issues these forecasts of what
unemployment is going to be. And if you recall, during
Labor we got an incredibly scary forecast that during COVID
there'd be ten percent unemployment. So we pulled out all
the stops and we had all the jobs for nature
programs and the wage subsidies that people didn't lose their
(03:31):
jobs during COVID, and so that terrible forecast wasn't realized.
Now nationals and government they've come in and Wellington. They've
cut public service jobs that's had flown impacts to retail
and hospitality. They've cut capital projects around the country and
construction workers have lost their jobs, and they're saying, oh, well,
it was always going to be bad, and not taking
(03:52):
responsibility for the fact that their own actions have made
a troubling economic outlook worse.
Speaker 5 (03:59):
Well, that's not correct, I share.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
You know. We've come up with the fast direct legislation.
Speaker 5 (04:03):
There's going to be seven billion dollars worth of project
starting Christmas time. Even just yesterday, send ten minerals in
Central Otago have been granted consent. That's three hundred and
fifty seven job direct jobs, about five hundred indirect jobs.
And interesting, the average salary is predicted to be a
bit overt tack over one hundred and forty thousand dollars.
With Auckland Port expansion one hundred and forty thousand jobs
(04:25):
overcoming decades. There's the Meldale housing development three and a
half thousand jobs, might High Village housing development and Nelson
that's twenty seven hundred jobs.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
So Mike, it's totally fair enough to say that these
are future projects that will bring jobs. Labour also believes
that doing construction will create create jobs. No one's disagreeing
with that. It was the fact that when you came
into government, National cut a lot of the Coying Aura
housing builds, a lot of school and hospital builds were interrupted,
(04:56):
and as a result of that, that means all those
people were laid off. Over twenty thousand workers from the
construction industry have gone to Australia. So that's the problem.
You may well be developing the pipeline. We welcome that,
but the problem is we're in this situation now because
of what you did after the election. That's why it's
so important. And what Chris Hipkins has said is that
(05:17):
once the project's underway, Labor is not going to cancel
it when we come into government.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Well that's good.
Speaker 5 (05:22):
Is It's just a shame you guys didn't support the
fast track project. But look, in reality, we know what
happens when interest rates are high. Interest rates are put
up when inflation is high. It was seven point three percent.
Interest rates went through the roof. People make decisions to
not build. It's as simple as that. And as we've
managed the economy and got interest rates or inflation back
under control, interest rates have come down. I was stilling
(05:44):
to build a builder and mastered in the other day.
There they are three hundred percent up on renovation works.
There's a massive demand coming up through the pipeline there,
so it is coming.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Can I just ask you, sorry, Mike, can I just
ask you if you've just admitted to saying that if
if the Mount Victoria tunnel starts, you're not going to
You're not going to stop it, You're going to keep going.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Well, that's been Chris Hapkin's commitment is once a once
a project has actually started, where.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Going to be How do you cify start?
Speaker 3 (06:20):
I mean, I think the thing that i'd that i'd
say there is there is a difference between a project
where there's earthworks and things happening in the real world
and pretend started project like all those roads of national
significance where there's been no funding appropriated to them and
no work underway, but have they really started? I don't
(06:43):
think so.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
See, I think i'd argue that that has started. There's
a crew working on that now putting plans together, so
that that has started.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Yeah. Look, once works, once the earth's being moved, I
think we can say a project's been started.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Okay, let's move on from that. I mean, I'm I
quite didn't quite get there, because I want to know
whether the you know, if I voted labor next election,
we're still going to get a second mount for tour
of tunnel. I think. I think that's whats want.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Could the has the tunnel work actually started? Is going
to break round for the end of this term, which
is what frisdships promise. It's the onus is on the
government to make sure that.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
I would say from the facts that I know that
the work has started because people are planning, drawing up things,
and designers are working. Engineers are working, so that's work started.
You can't start work without that.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
I think my wider point here is on across all
these roading projects to say that they're starting, not involve
the opposition and not commit money for it. I think
you know that's across the roads of National Significance project.
How can we, as a you know, in good faith,
as the major opposition party, say that we'll continue projects
where there's not a level of transparency about the funding
(07:56):
and what's actually going on. So if that information is
shared we can all behave responsibly.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
All right, let's move on and behave responsibly. Here Ruben's
swirling around the proposed bill to allow police to people
off the streets. Come on, Mike, tell me what the
hell's going on here, because I've never seen, you know,
Christopher Luxon stop a discussion in parliament quite like it.
He've got quite irate or not irate, but he I
(08:22):
didn't want to discuss it. What's going on? There's something
going on.
Speaker 5 (08:25):
I look in terms of the homeless, I guess we
should acknowledge that it is incredibly complex and I don't
think anyone would dispute there and there's a number of
things to consider and all options are on the table.
There has been nothing decided at all. Minister of Auckland
has been tasked with engaging with council NGOs that are
(08:46):
involved all those sorts of people.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
So Mike, I just want to I want to get
further than this I want to know where the a
Wellington's in the discussion as well, or is it just
because Simeon Brown's a Minister for Auckland and he's got
a bit more power than we've got down here and
we've got the same problems down here. I want to
know if there is genuine cushions that they're going to
do something about it, or is it just something that
(09:10):
is just more talk.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
No.
Speaker 5 (09:12):
Look, I mean you've obviously got to involve all the
stakeholders and that's the right thing to do, and so
there are discussions on going. Look, there's no decisions being made.
It's actually about look, we know there's a challenge here.
What are our options? That's really what the discussion is
all about.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Hi sure, what would labor do? Well?
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Firstly, it's good to hear Mike respond that this is
a complicated issue. Homelessness is a really complicated issue, and
I've heard from some of the businesses in the Wellington
CBD and the impact that rough sleepers in the CBD
are having on the feeling of safety of their own
(09:55):
customers and workers. Actually, the important thing here is that
it is complicated. But what happened with this government is
they refuse to belie it was complicated and moved everyone
out of emergency housing and now they're on the Street's
that's what's happened. That's how we've gone to having such
visible problems with homelessness.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
But we still had.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Them on the streets when we had.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
People much fewer, much fewer, And it's at least doubled
in the Auckland CBD. For sure, it is a much
bigger problem than it was. So one of the things
is that I'm so pleased National is admitting now that
this is a complex problem and we need to use
some of those solutions that we've trialed in parts of
(10:39):
the country. They need to be scaled up, like housing first.
But the thing is, they went to the last election
saying it was a simple problem and they'll just shut
the emergency accommodation and look what they did. All they
did is move the problem from one place to another. So, Mike,
what I want to know is that going to happen again.
Are you just going to move people from the CBD
to our own doorsteps in the suburbs, because I think
(11:00):
a lot of people in Wellington and Auckland would be
quite anxious about that.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Michael, Look, I've got to go to an air brake,
so can you please be very quick?
Speaker 4 (11:08):
Oh? Very quick?
Speaker 5 (11:08):
No, Look, I mean I should thank you a simplifying
and it is complex. We putting people in emergency hotels
for months and months and years was not the solution. Yes,
we are doing housing first places one hundred of three
two hundred already occupied the sorry of three hundred with
ten million dollars in for us sleeping. It is a
complex problem. And just like you're going to help us
or agree with our infrastructure projects, hopefully we can all
(11:31):
agree a way forward and try and alleviate some of
the pressures.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Right, I've got to take a quick break. You're listening
to one into Mornings and it's our Politics Thursday. If
you've just turned your radio on II, Shaviral and Mike
Butterick are on the show with us. It is nineteen
minutes past eleven. When you need in home care, ask
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(14:26):
Abahat and Pottydoer.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Digging in to get to the heart of the story.
It's Heather Duplicy Ellen Drive.
Speaker 9 (14:33):
Homelessness has been an issue, so.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
You are a time you are considering a band.
Speaker 9 (14:37):
I'm focused on antisocial behaviors.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
That are somebody in your party considering a band would see.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
You're trying to sort of get me to talk about
something that's out of my ministerial area.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
And is going on here.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Heather Duplicity Ellen Drive with One New Zealand back today
at four only on Youth Talks, eNB.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
I feel your pain, Heather, it's difficult dealing with politicians.
I feel your pain. I've got Iceaviril and Mike Butter.
I feel your pain. Talk about Sickly. Sickly is costing
New Zealand four point one seven billion dollars and it's
they say it's going to actually increase to five point
five billion dollars. I mean, you know it's ridiculous and labor.
(15:22):
You brought this in. I so you brought this in. Well,
it's you that brought in. You went from five days
to ten days, Nock.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
I know that you agree with me that employers employ
human beings, and human beings sometimes get sick. That is
a fact of life.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
They still got sick beforehand, we got five days.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Or indeed, and it's probably the case that after you know,
as Catherine rich from Business New Zealand said, people's understanding
of what to do when they're sick has changed and
there's more knowledge that you need.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
To Are you agreeving when you're making ten days.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
When you're sick? But I think it's a fair enough
concern for employers to raise about the about how we
manage this as a society because it is going to
get more.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Can't ignore me, I asked a question. You can know
you want to ignore me. But is there a great
that they went from five to ten days? Was it
too much? Maybe a six or seven days?
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Look, I think this is it no that people really need.
People really need to be off work when they're sick. Now,
I don't have sympathy for the issues that you are
correctly raising. Nick sick leavers for sickness, not like you,
as you're pointing out earlier when people were calling in
it's not holiday pay. I totally agree with you on that,
(16:40):
but the fact is human beings get sick. And the
other thing Catherine Rich from Business in New Zealand pointed out
in her comments on this is that the second highest
reason for taking sick leave, other than being sick yourself,
is because you're caring for someone who's sick, and she
pointed out that it's only going to become a bigger
issue as more people are caring for the older generations
as well as the younger generation.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Mike is a national considering bringing this back to five,
Is there any talk about what's going on? Four point
one one billion? That's a lot of money.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Yeah, and no this we're not.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
But I guess look, just in terms of what I
should said as well, you know, I think we've probably
got a bit more mature about what we do when
we are sick. The old the old soldier on or
take a concrete pill attitude that's certainly changed, you know,
and quite simply, you know, people were coming to work
crop and you know then that spreads through the workplace
as well, so we're probably a bit more mature about
it about our approach as well.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Why is it scientifically that that people get sick on
a Monday or a Friday? What scientifically that proven?
Speaker 5 (17:41):
Yeah, well, I mean it's sick levers for when you
are sick, not for any just because you want to
day off. So I think that's behoven on people.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
To be honest.
Speaker 5 (17:50):
But look, I mean it's you know, some of it
is confusing.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
There's compliance costs, you know.
Speaker 5 (17:57):
Look, that's why we're actually trying to sort out the
Holidays Act.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
So nothing from that to change it. That's it. And
if labor gets back and they're not going to change it.
So we've got what we've gott and we just got
to put up with it and get on with it.
That's what I've gotten from this CEO of Water Safety
New Zealand told us on this very show that forty
people are going to or could lose their lives. History
will tell us will lose their life with drowning preventable
(18:24):
drowning this coming summer. Now, that's a lot of families
are going to be distraught this time next year. Tim,
Why did ACC cut the funding to help educate these
people to prevent those deaths.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
You yeah, you made Mike, Sorry.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Mike sorry?
Speaker 4 (18:42):
What well? I hope it's like Tim Nick.
Speaker 7 (18:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (18:48):
Look, look, it's an operational decision first and foremost.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
You know, they've made it.
Speaker 5 (18:52):
They've looked at the return they were getting on it
or the benefit. You know, there's been a significant amount
of money over a long period of time put in
and I think it was close to eight hundred and
nine hundred thousand and financial year twenty twenty six. But
you know that they've taken a, like I say, an
operational decision. They have a view that you know, there
(19:13):
may be other programs like that take a take a.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
Maybe best served to.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
You can't take it well, I mean this is people's lives.
Have they got anything else in place to help educate them?
What are they going to do with that money?
Speaker 7 (19:27):
Well?
Speaker 5 (19:27):
Learning to swim as part of the New Zealand curriculum,
you know in that state's all students have got to
have opportunities to learn basic aquatic skills. And I don't
know if you remember back at school, you know you
learned to float, not to panic, those sorts of things,
and that students have got access to.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
The days when they had school pools and we did,
and the world's changed since then that this is bad,
bad business, I believe Aishavirah, what's your take on this?
What do you think should happen here.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
Being around water in our recreation time as part of
the key we way of life, and we've got to
make it safe for people because too many people die
in the in the water. Look, I don't I don't
understand what it is with ACC and prevention, but they
always seem to be getting it wrong. I think that
there's so much that ACC should be doing in terms
(20:18):
of ye preventing deaths in the water, but also preventing
really expensive fools and older people and stuff, and yet
they never seem to really get their teeth into how
to run good prevention programs. And they they sit on
a big fund of our you know, for paying for
our future ACC costs. They are the organization that can
(20:39):
invest today to prevent harm and greater costs down the lines.
I don't understand why they seem to often beginning prevention
so wrong.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
And what do you say to those people that could
end up being one of those families that lose a
life because they weren't educated. I mean, this is ridiculous.
Speaker 5 (21:01):
Well look, I mean you know, obviously you always sympathize
with anybody that loses their life thought by any means
at all, But you know, look, it is about ACCV
made an operational decision.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
People will lose.
Speaker 5 (21:17):
You know, it won't be just be swimming. It'll be
car accidents, as I just said, It'll be taking falls,
It'll be a number of different things. You know, there
are endless ways that you could try and invest in
educational awareness programs, but you know they have a view
that it may best be served through the taker.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Right, very very.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Quickly, because I know you both got to go. Fireworks
Guy foks night last night. Winston Peters has come out
and said that it's going to be a non negotiable
for any coalition talks next election, that it's going to
be banned. I see, what is your view on firewek
I thought Guy falks last night, and I'm not a fireman,
and I didn't work and I didn't see any radio
or see anything. What's your view?
Speaker 3 (21:57):
My personal view is I love fireworks. They are part
of the fun of guy fawks And yet why do
idiots need to let them off near the zoo or
in high fire risk areas and wreck it for everyone else.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
Yeah, and look, I agree, you know what I say.
You can only do so much to protect people from
their own stupidity. I mean, I've seen fireworks go off
when it's blowing a howling gale, you know, in the
middle of a dry period. So first and foremost, it's
be safe to think about the consequences if it does
go wrong and climateic conditions.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Thank you both so much. Story that we had a
little technical issue at the beginning with you, Mike, but
nice to have you on the show. Eishavera. Always nice
to see you. Thank you very much. Have both have
a great week and a great weekend coming up, and
we'll catch you next week.
Speaker 9 (22:48):
It is past thank you.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
It's half past eleven when we come back. Really interesting,
I mean we're going to talk to someone from the
Royal New Zealand Aircraft Air Force. She Barbara Graham, not
only is a marine biologist, she's a soprano singer.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
And for more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen
live to news Talks It'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio,
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