November 20, 2025 • 10 mins
For this week's Friday Sport Kick-off, Jason Pine and Adam Cooper join Nick Mills to discuss the latest in sport. They look at the recent All Blacks performance at Twickenham and look forward to this weekend Wales match.
They also give the All Blacks a score for the year, take a look at Razor’s tenure, discuss Jamie Joseph’s future as a coach and give their thoughts on the Phoenix game this weekend and the Ashes.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Said B.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Getting U said, for your sporting weekend, it's the Wellington
Mornings Friday sport kickoff on news Talks. Ed B.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
It's that time of the week where I get a
couple of masters, masters of their trade from next door
in the office to come in and talk sport weekend.
Sports hosts Jason Pine, good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
How are you.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
I'm great, thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
We haven't spent much time together this week. Where have
you been?
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Noel? I thought that was intentional on your part.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I think it was intentional on your part. And All
Sports Breakfast host Adam Cooper has always.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Spent fast too much time together.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Let me just trike a balanced too much time, you know.
For those who don't understand, Adam's my boss as well,
so he every morning helps puts the show together and
he tells me what I'm doing wrong after the show
every day and right and right be positive. It's money
the latter it come on, it's very positive anyway. Sport
(01:27):
all Blacks versus Wales. Now, I'm of an era when
that was a big game. Pinety, we're almost looking like
we're playing Raratonga at the moment.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Yeah. Well, and I don't think that's the All Blacks fault.
It's Wales's fault. They have been awful since the last
World Cup. You know, they lost their quarterfinal at the
twenty twenty three World Cup to Argentina. That was the
first of eighteen straight losses by the Welsh rugby team.
They lost every single game in twenty twenty four and
(01:58):
the first six or seven of this year before they
finally beat Japan to stop that. You know that read
full losing streak. But Wales, it wasn't that long ago
that Wales for a little while were number one in
the world. There was a week during which they were
the number one team in the world. They won the
Six Nations. This is going back a bit. They won
a Grand Slam in twenty twelve and the Six Nations
(02:20):
again in twenty thirteen. I think they wanted again in
twenty nineteen, something like that. And we know how proud
a history they have, but recently they have been terrible,
absolutely appallingly bad.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
No chance, Coops, no chance did the All Blacks are
going to repeat that? What was it nineteen fifty three?
Pinty just told me, I remember I remember the I
mean history tells you the event, so you remember it personally,
see what I mean. That's my boss. Do you know
what I mean? Pinty. Well, you know.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
We've won the last thirty three matches against them, so
since nineteen fifty three, So I think we'll probably win
the game.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
But to answer question, no, I think it's a foregone conclusion.
And if you look at the All Blacks cycles of
you know they've had some disappointing defeats this year and
that's been well documented, including last weekend. The bounce back
wins are off on the most emphatic when the team
feels like they have a point to prove. Yes, the
Grand Slam. You know, tour is effectively no more in
terms of recording a Grand Slam. But these guys don't
want to be coming on the plane all the way
(03:17):
back home, dwelling on back to back losses or a
slow endo the season, so you know they've refreshed things
they got. They'll have some players that are absolutely eager
to stretch their legs, the likes of Reuben Love, who
finally gets a shot. You know, it was way back
and sort of in July with the French series that
he started. Obviously got a bit of time off the
bench here in Wellington against the spring Box, but great
(03:39):
for him to finally put all his hard work through
the year to the test this week in.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
A Fordups gets a start, which is great for fans.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Absolutely, Look, I think there'll be a lot of guys
out there who would just enjoy themselves. It's been a
very very challenging couple of years probably for the All
Blacks and last weekends lost at England has put a
huge question mark over the team and its coaching staff
and they're not willing to talk about it quite rightly
until the year is over, and that'll happen Sunday morning.
(04:08):
But at the end of it all, there has to
be a very very robust review of this year and
the first two years of Scott Robertson's tenure as All
Blacks coach.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Coops. Just imagine and think about it. We all know
how what a proud nation Wales are, right proud rugby nation.
They might have had those seventeen losses, but they're still
a proud They'll be sitting there thinking Scotland only just lost.
They lost to England. Is this the big major turnaround
for Welsh rugby.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
If they do, they're probably dreaming and setting themselves up
for a big disappointment. I think, you know, that's the
All Blacks in town. They know what that brings, no
matter who's on the part for the All Blacks personally.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Okay, so before we move on counting that we're going
to win at Wales, what's your score, Piney out of
ten for the All Blacks for the year. I've got mine,
you're mine first before I've got six. If we win, three,
if we.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Lose, Yeah, we're not going to lose, Okay, so let's
not worry about that.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
So I've gone six just about average.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Six is where I have them.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
Yeah, I was gonna say six as well.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Yeah that's about and that's not good enough for All
Backs team.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Well I think if you if you zoom out a
little bit. And I said this last week after the
England loss on Weekend Sport that no All Blacks fan
feels more confident now than they did two years ago
about the World Cup. I felt, you know, this All
Blacks team has not improved under Scott Robertson to the
degree that we all hoped. He's been shown to be
(05:38):
inherently conservative with his selections. The All Blacks team have
got a lot of issues, not just one. If he
say okay, if they fixed that, they'll be fine. There's
a lot of things to focus on. Jason Holland is
leaving at the end of this year, so there's a
change and other change coming in the coaching staff. Like
I say, no All Blacks fan feels more confident today
than they did two years ago about the World Cup
(06:00):
in twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Do you think they could throw Jamie Joseph in that
coaching position? Would that be a step too far? Coeps now?
Would be a bold move?
Speaker 4 (06:08):
I think probably There'd have to be a lot that
goes wrong even from now onwards too. To do you
know that they know he's lingering in the background. He
might be next to line down the track, but I
think just as an assistant, not as an assistant. No,
I think he's probably easier head coach. He's a head
coach and I think almost if you've seen that, there's
this last two year Scott Robertson kind of just went
(06:28):
around the Super Rugby franchises found out who was availability.
Obviously got the Blues coach at the time, Leo McDonald,
He got Jason Holland at the time, the Hurricanes head coach. Well,
well that's worked out with those two. So you know,
I think there is quite a clear contrast in you know,
head coaches versus assistance. But then you look at someone
like Tommody Allison, who has worked with Raiser at the
Crusaders as an assistant in the past and the past
(06:49):
now a very you know, very highly respected member of
the All Blacks coaching staff too. So I don't think
Jamie Joseph will be the right move.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
And I'm just on that.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
Look at the players that the All Blacks had in
that dream era of twenty fifteen, you know, the starting
fifteen if everyone was fit, could almost right itself. You
know them, the Cause, the Cards, the Smith, the Niners.
We just don't have those players, the caliber of players
right now, so we are less competitive on the world stage.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
And we don't have a blonde, blonde bombshell that England had.
We don't have that young kid that's coming through. I
mean there's a lot of talk about the boy from Otago.
I know, that dove flanker from there, the half back
in there, but we just don't feel like we've got that.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
Maruben Lovers, you know, next in line to be the
All Blacks leading number ten, I believe, but he's hardly
played this year and he played needs to know MPC
because he was training with the All Blacks all the time,
and is that his best development when you're not playing coops?
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Is right about the generation nature of those sides as well.
I think of the great All Black sides I've watched
the late eighties when Buck Shelford was the captain ninety
six and ninety seven where they were pretty much unstoppable,
and then the team from twenty eleven through to about
twenty seventeen. That's a long tenure. But those players, my goodness,
what a team. It just isn't the same formidable force.
(08:02):
I don't think you know a South Africa of France
and England, you know, stand across from the All Blacks
at Harker time, look across and see generational players. They
see a couple of very very good players, but it
is not a generational team. I don't think ten fifteen
years from now we'll look back on the on the
team of twenty twenty four twenty five, twenty six as
(08:24):
a as a generational All Blacks team.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Okay, let's move and very well said, because they're not
and there is you know, they haven't got the numbers.
Phoenix play MacArthur at Sky Stadium tomorrow. Coops, You'll be there.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
I'll be there.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
I'll be there.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Mike Piney will be commentating, of course, with my my
favorite duo of commentaries Coops. Easy win.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
Not easy that they're pretty you know, mixed on the table,
but the Phoenix should win. They've got two games in
a row now at home, two Saturdays in a row,
very important to salvage I guess the disappointment, particularly of
the derby loss to Auckland. So I'd like to think
they can get the job done at home, but hard
to pick at this point.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
MacArthur are a team that the Phoenix normally are okay against.
They lost the last time they were here, but that
was a pretty ordinary season last season. I think they
match up pretty well against MacArthur. If they can get
their big center back man Dracer James back, I think
that'll make a huge difference. He wasn't there for the derby.
He has resumed training with the team after injury. Look,
I think Keeps is right. They have to bounce back
from what happened a couple of weeks ago. The international
(09:25):
break has probably come at not a bad time. They've
had an opportunity to refresh, reinvigorate themselves. Only Alex Ruffel
was away with the national team, so they've all been together. Yeah. Look,
I'd like to think they'd go out there tomorrow and
next Saturday against Adelaide and get this season going. That's
what I would like to.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
See, and we get a crowd. We need to get
a crowd.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Well, I'm not sure whether we will tomorrow because this
absolutely zero buzz around this game. It really doesn't feel
as though you know.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Sitting mere U no, no, but it's but it's I
want crowds.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
We all want crowds. We all do. But when only
twelve thousand came to the derby, you know, look, I
think we're probably five or six tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Quickly, quick five or six thousand, Oh yeah, quickly, because
I've got to go ashes. Is it still as big
as it always was? I mean I'm looking, I'm really
ready to look go home and look for a couple
of hours before I go to work tonight and watch
you guys.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
Absolutely bring it on. It's the best test cricket and
the best rivalry around and cricket at the moment and
always you know, it always has been, so bring it on.
How many hours ago, three and a half hours, it'll
be getting under lake.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Can't wait lunchtime Walker, watch the Ashes.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Pine, nothing wrong with it. I love the Ashes, love
my test cricket. I'll I'll be certainly taking a lot
of it. And over the twenty five days of the Ashes.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
You know, yes, me too, me too, Thank you very
very much. Jason Pine and Adam Cooper you can catch
them on well You can catch Coops tomorrow morning on
the your Sports Breakfast at nine o'clock and all week
in from twelve to three. You can hear Jason Pine.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live
to news talks There'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Said B.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Getting U said, for your sporting weekend, it's the Wellington
Mornings Friday sport kickoff on news Talks. Ed B.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
It's that time of the week where I get a
couple of masters, masters of their trade from next door
in the office to come in and talk sport weekend.
Sports hosts Jason Pine, good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
Good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
How are you.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
I'm great, thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
We haven't spent much time together this week. Where have
you been?
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Noel? I thought that was intentional on your part.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I think it was intentional on your part. And All
Sports Breakfast host Adam Cooper has always.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Spent fast too much time together.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Let me just trike a balanced too much time, you know.
For those who don't understand, Adam's my boss as well,
so he every morning helps puts the show together and
he tells me what I'm doing wrong after the show
every day and right and right be positive. It's money
the latter it come on, it's very positive anyway. Sport
(01:27):
all Blacks versus Wales. Now, I'm of an era when
that was a big game. Pinety, we're almost looking like
we're playing Raratonga at the moment.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Yeah. Well, and I don't think that's the All Blacks fault.
It's Wales's fault. They have been awful since the last
World Cup. You know, they lost their quarterfinal at the
twenty twenty three World Cup to Argentina. That was the
first of eighteen straight losses by the Welsh rugby team.
They lost every single game in twenty twenty four and
(01:58):
the first six or seven of this year before they
finally beat Japan to stop that. You know that read
full losing streak. But Wales, it wasn't that long ago
that Wales for a little while were number one in
the world. There was a week during which they were
the number one team in the world. They won the
Six Nations. This is going back a bit. They won
a Grand Slam in twenty twelve and the Six Nations
(02:20):
again in twenty thirteen. I think they wanted again in
twenty nineteen, something like that. And we know how proud
a history they have, but recently they have been terrible,
absolutely appallingly bad.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
No chance, Coops, no chance did the All Blacks are
going to repeat that? What was it nineteen fifty three?
Pinty just told me, I remember I remember the I
mean history tells you the event, so you remember it personally,
see what I mean. That's my boss. Do you know
what I mean? Pinty. Well, you know.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
We've won the last thirty three matches against them, so
since nineteen fifty three, So I think we'll probably win
the game.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
But to answer question, no, I think it's a foregone conclusion.
And if you look at the All Blacks cycles of
you know they've had some disappointing defeats this year and
that's been well documented, including last weekend. The bounce back
wins are off on the most emphatic when the team
feels like they have a point to prove. Yes, the
Grand Slam. You know, tour is effectively no more in
terms of recording a Grand Slam. But these guys don't
want to be coming on the plane all the way
(03:17):
back home, dwelling on back to back losses or a
slow endo the season, so you know they've refreshed things
they got. They'll have some players that are absolutely eager
to stretch their legs, the likes of Reuben Love, who
finally gets a shot. You know, it was way back
and sort of in July with the French series that
he started. Obviously got a bit of time off the
bench here in Wellington against the spring Box, but great
(03:39):
for him to finally put all his hard work through
the year to the test this week in.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
A Fordups gets a start, which is great for fans.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Absolutely, Look, I think there'll be a lot of guys
out there who would just enjoy themselves. It's been a
very very challenging couple of years probably for the All
Blacks and last weekends lost at England has put a
huge question mark over the team and its coaching staff
and they're not willing to talk about it quite rightly
until the year is over, and that'll happen Sunday morning.
(04:08):
But at the end of it all, there has to
be a very very robust review of this year and
the first two years of Scott Robertson's tenure as All
Blacks coach.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Coops. Just imagine and think about it. We all know
how what a proud nation Wales are, right proud rugby nation.
They might have had those seventeen losses, but they're still
a proud They'll be sitting there thinking Scotland only just lost.
They lost to England. Is this the big major turnaround
for Welsh rugby.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
If they do, they're probably dreaming and setting themselves up
for a big disappointment. I think, you know, that's the
All Blacks in town. They know what that brings, no
matter who's on the part for the All Blacks personally.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Okay, so before we move on counting that we're going
to win at Wales, what's your score, Piney out of
ten for the All Blacks for the year. I've got mine,
you're mine first before I've got six. If we win, three,
if we.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Lose, Yeah, we're not going to lose, Okay, so let's
not worry about that.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
So I've gone six just about average.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Six is where I have them.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
Yeah, I was gonna say six as well.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Yeah that's about and that's not good enough for All
Backs team.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Well I think if you if you zoom out a
little bit. And I said this last week after the
England loss on Weekend Sport that no All Blacks fan
feels more confident now than they did two years ago
about the World Cup. I felt, you know, this All
Blacks team has not improved under Scott Robertson to the
degree that we all hoped. He's been shown to be
(05:38):
inherently conservative with his selections. The All Blacks team have
got a lot of issues, not just one. If he
say okay, if they fixed that, they'll be fine. There's
a lot of things to focus on. Jason Holland is
leaving at the end of this year, so there's a
change and other change coming in the coaching staff. Like
I say, no All Blacks fan feels more confident today
than they did two years ago about the World Cup
(06:00):
in twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Do you think they could throw Jamie Joseph in that
coaching position? Would that be a step too far? Coeps now?
Would be a bold move?
Speaker 4 (06:08):
I think probably There'd have to be a lot that
goes wrong even from now onwards too. To do you
know that they know he's lingering in the background. He
might be next to line down the track, but I
think just as an assistant, not as an assistant. No,
I think he's probably easier head coach. He's a head
coach and I think almost if you've seen that, there's
this last two year Scott Robertson kind of just went
(06:28):
around the Super Rugby franchises found out who was availability.
Obviously got the Blues coach at the time, Leo McDonald,
He got Jason Holland at the time, the Hurricanes head coach. Well,
well that's worked out with those two. So you know,
I think there is quite a clear contrast in you know,
head coaches versus assistance. But then you look at someone
like Tommody Allison, who has worked with Raiser at the
Crusaders as an assistant in the past and the past
(06:49):
now a very you know, very highly respected member of
the All Blacks coaching staff too. So I don't think
Jamie Joseph will be the right move.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
And I'm just on that.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
Look at the players that the All Blacks had in
that dream era of twenty fifteen, you know, the starting
fifteen if everyone was fit, could almost right itself. You
know them, the Cause, the Cards, the Smith, the Niners.
We just don't have those players, the caliber of players
right now, so we are less competitive on the world stage.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
And we don't have a blonde, blonde bombshell that England had.
We don't have that young kid that's coming through. I
mean there's a lot of talk about the boy from Otago.
I know, that dove flanker from there, the half back
in there, but we just don't feel like we've got that.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
Maruben Lovers, you know, next in line to be the
All Blacks leading number ten, I believe, but he's hardly
played this year and he played needs to know MPC
because he was training with the All Blacks all the time,
and is that his best development when you're not playing coops?
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Is right about the generation nature of those sides as well.
I think of the great All Black sides I've watched
the late eighties when Buck Shelford was the captain ninety
six and ninety seven where they were pretty much unstoppable,
and then the team from twenty eleven through to about
twenty seventeen. That's a long tenure. But those players, my goodness,
what a team. It just isn't the same formidable force.
(08:02):
I don't think you know a South Africa of France
and England, you know, stand across from the All Blacks
at Harker time, look across and see generational players. They
see a couple of very very good players, but it
is not a generational team. I don't think ten fifteen
years from now we'll look back on the on the
team of twenty twenty four twenty five, twenty six as
(08:24):
a as a generational All Blacks team.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Okay, let's move and very well said, because they're not
and there is you know, they haven't got the numbers.
Phoenix play MacArthur at Sky Stadium tomorrow. Coops, You'll be there.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
I'll be there.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
I'll be there.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Mike Piney will be commentating, of course, with my my
favorite duo of commentaries Coops. Easy win.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
Not easy that they're pretty you know, mixed on the table,
but the Phoenix should win. They've got two games in
a row now at home, two Saturdays in a row,
very important to salvage I guess the disappointment, particularly of
the derby loss to Auckland. So I'd like to think
they can get the job done at home, but hard
to pick at this point.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
MacArthur are a team that the Phoenix normally are okay against.
They lost the last time they were here, but that
was a pretty ordinary season last season. I think they
match up pretty well against MacArthur. If they can get
their big center back man Dracer James back, I think
that'll make a huge difference. He wasn't there for the derby.
He has resumed training with the team after injury. Look,
I think Keeps is right. They have to bounce back
from what happened a couple of weeks ago. The international
(09:25):
break has probably come at not a bad time. They've
had an opportunity to refresh, reinvigorate themselves. Only Alex Ruffel
was away with the national team, so they've all been together. Yeah. Look,
I'd like to think they'd go out there tomorrow and
next Saturday against Adelaide and get this season going. That's
what I would like to.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
See, and we get a crowd. We need to get
a crowd.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Well, I'm not sure whether we will tomorrow because this
absolutely zero buzz around this game. It really doesn't feel
as though you know.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Sitting mere U no, no, but it's but it's I
want crowds.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
We all want crowds. We all do. But when only
twelve thousand came to the derby, you know, look, I
think we're probably five or six tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Quickly, quick five or six thousand, Oh yeah, quickly, because
I've got to go ashes. Is it still as big
as it always was? I mean I'm looking, I'm really
ready to look go home and look for a couple
of hours before I go to work tonight and watch
you guys.
Speaker 4 (10:15):
Absolutely bring it on. It's the best test cricket and
the best rivalry around and cricket at the moment and
always you know, it always has been, so bring it on.
How many hours ago, three and a half hours, it'll
be getting under lake.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Can't wait lunchtime Walker, watch the Ashes.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Pine, nothing wrong with it. I love the Ashes, love
my test cricket. I'll I'll be certainly taking a lot
of it. And over the twenty five days of the Ashes.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
You know, yes, me too, me too, Thank you very
very much. Jason Pine and Adam Cooper you can catch
them on well You can catch Coops tomorrow morning on
the your Sports Breakfast at nine o'clock and all week
in from twelve to three. You can hear Jason Pine.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills. Listen live
to news talks There'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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