May 5, 2026 • 7 mins
The Government has given an ultimatum for local councils - amalgamate in three months or we will do it for you.
The Wellington region has been in talks of amalgamation - Wellington City, Porirua, Hutt City and Upper Hutt.
Upper Hutt Mayor Peri Zee has concerns and says more options should be on the table.
Mayor Zee speaks to Nick sharing her thoughts on the call from Minister Chris Bishop and Simon Watts, and the three month time limit.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
B Mayor is Perri zay Piri.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Good morning, Good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Did you hear Brian?
Speaker 3 (00:21):
No, No, I didn't.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Sorry, he was very passionate. He's a upper hutt in
and he doesn't want to have anything to do with it, right.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Yes, there are. There are quite a few people in
my ear from apart who were telling me that they're
they're not interested in the proposition of amalgamation.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
What are your concerns, You've got concerns, what are they?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Yeah, Look, we are really lean efficient counsel Our staff
do an amazing job. There's very few of them, and
we also have relatively low rates compared to our regional counterparts.
So look, we stand to potentially lose out on some
of those benefits that we have already, and we are
(01:05):
already a very efficient council. So if we lose our
voice and end up being less efficient, you know, that's
not necessarily a positive outcome for our community.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Okay, you would have sort of been given a lot
of information about this, and since you've been there, I mean,
what how will it work that your rates could possibly
go up on a percentage base.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Well, I mean it's the same sort of conversation that's
been had around water rates, right, you would look to
have some sort of harmonization across the councils if you
were all one in terms of charges that would be
laid on those communities. So you know, there would be
no reason I would say that it would be we
(01:51):
would stand to lower rates through an amalgamation proposal for
upper half.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
But you're going to be part of the QIY anyway,
so whatever happens there, and we're all going to be
hammered by that as we know. So you're going to
be affected by that anyway, aren't. You're not going to
be you know, limited because you're from Upper Heart.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
No, I mean there is no choice right to work
together on water. The water doesn't stop at the regional
the territorial boundaries, so we have to work together. There's
no there's no choice about that. And look that that
was needed and we've we've got there with Tiaki y.
It has been a difficult process and you know there
are trade offs of course for those processes as well.
(02:30):
So look, it hasn't been particularly easy, I would say,
And to think that amalgamation will be easy in comparison,
I think is it is not quite true.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
When I last spoke to your previous mayor Wane Guppy
about it, I mean he wasn't. I mean he's never
been really really for it, never been really really against
against it, but he's always said it's inevitable. It is inevitable,
isn't it?
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Look I mean potentially that's what the government is saying
at this point in time. I think we haven't been
given a choice. We've been asked either to join with
the Unitary Authority now or be pushed later. But you
know that is the current proposal from this government, and
you know, things do change.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
I know that timings are concerned for you personally. Do
you think that that would be appeased if they gave
you like six months or are they trying to rush
it before an election.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
I think we really need to understand the impacts longer
term for our community. For example, one of the things
that's on my mind is in our per heart, we
don't have any coastlines right, so we don't have to
consider the future liability of managed retreat and who pays
for that. So those kind of conversations we really need
to understand those before we make a decision informed decision
(03:51):
for our communities, because we are potentially putting future liabilities
on our communities to pay. So my perspective is that
we need to be in a position where we can
have all the information to be able to meaningfully say
whether it is going to be, you know, whether the
benefits are going to outweigh the costs.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Is this an opportunity to get something out of the government, though,
I mean, there must be some upside to this. Have
you seen anything that you thought, Ah, that's an upside.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Oh, there's certainly, you know, some there's certainly benefit of
working better together. And you know, look, we don't even
know what the proposals are at the moment. And I'm
certainly not saying that I'm opposed to amalgamation. I'm just
saying that I can't at this point in time see
that the benefits would outweigh the costs for our community,
(04:38):
and actually, I think our community stands to lose in this. So,
but it depends entirely on what the proposals are. It
depends on what happens in the waded upper For example,
there is a lot of water to go under the bridge,
before we can make an informed opinion on it.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
I think you might have just actually unintentionally got the
byline for it. I think you've just you've got the
actual catchphrase just out of an interview better together.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I love, Yeah, I think I think well, I think
we need we do need to work better together. We
do need to be efficient. But we already have shared
services with Lower Heart, We share symmetry services. You know,
we work together on the landfill. There's lots of things
that we already do together, and it is important to
have those conversations so that we can be you know,
deliver services in the most efficient way for our community.
(05:30):
And you know, as you've pointed out, water has to
be done, you know, together, because that's how the infrastructure functions.
So we do need to work better together. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Now I don't like this idea, but what about amalgamation
with just upper Heart and lower Heart? Would that would
that make it feel a bit more palatable to you.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
I think those sorts of options should be on the
table for our community and for HUT to consider. I
think we shouldn't jump straight to one particular outcome, which
at this point in time looks like a unitary authority
for all the meats in the region.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yea, does it ever excite you?
Speaker 3 (06:12):
One thing that's exciting for me is the opportunity to
do better in relation to transport infrastructure. I think we
absolutely have to plan that better at a regional level.
I think the structures probably already exist for that though,
and we just need to do that more intentionally, in
particular in relation to spatial planning. But that can be
(06:34):
done together in the structures we already have, like the
Willington Regional Leadership Committee for example. So you know, I
think there are parts of it that are exciting about
you know, the opportunity of planning infrastructure better and we
absolutely have to do that.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Now, one final question, how do you get zay out
of z ee?
Speaker 3 (06:58):
It's Dutch, It's a Dutch name. It actually means the sea,
so you know how we have New Zealand. You know,
the original Dutch spelling would have been z ee.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
There you go, because I've got it wrong five to
seven times. But I keep looking at Zee for our
listeners and say that sounds like z to me.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Yeah, I know. It's a challenge. It's a challenge, and look,
I'm relaxed about it. I know that you know it is.
It's a difficult one to get right, but I appreciate
your your diligence this time.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
In checking, and I won't get it wrong again. I
now know who the upper hut maor is. It's Perry Zay.
And thank you for joining us on the show this.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Morning, no problem, Thank you for having me all right.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks There'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
B Mayor is Perri zay Piri.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Good morning, Good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Did you hear Brian?
Speaker 3 (00:21):
No, No, I didn't.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Sorry, he was very passionate. He's a upper hutt in
and he doesn't want to have anything to do with it, right.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Yes, there are. There are quite a few people in
my ear from apart who were telling me that they're
they're not interested in the proposition of amalgamation.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
What are your concerns, You've got concerns, what are they?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Yeah, Look, we are really lean efficient counsel Our staff
do an amazing job. There's very few of them, and
we also have relatively low rates compared to our regional counterparts.
So look, we stand to potentially lose out on some
of those benefits that we have already, and we are
(01:05):
already a very efficient council. So if we lose our
voice and end up being less efficient, you know, that's
not necessarily a positive outcome for our community.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Okay, you would have sort of been given a lot
of information about this, and since you've been there, I mean,
what how will it work that your rates could possibly
go up on a percentage base.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Well, I mean it's the same sort of conversation that's
been had around water rates, right, you would look to
have some sort of harmonization across the councils if you
were all one in terms of charges that would be
laid on those communities. So you know, there would be
no reason I would say that it would be we
(01:51):
would stand to lower rates through an amalgamation proposal for
upper half.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
But you're going to be part of the QIY anyway,
so whatever happens there, and we're all going to be
hammered by that as we know. So you're going to
be affected by that anyway, aren't. You're not going to
be you know, limited because you're from Upper Heart.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
No, I mean there is no choice right to work
together on water. The water doesn't stop at the regional
the territorial boundaries, so we have to work together. There's
no there's no choice about that. And look that that
was needed and we've we've got there with Tiaki y.
It has been a difficult process and you know there
are trade offs of course for those processes as well.
(02:30):
So look, it hasn't been particularly easy, I would say,
And to think that amalgamation will be easy in comparison,
I think is it is not quite true.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
When I last spoke to your previous mayor Wane Guppy
about it, I mean he wasn't. I mean he's never
been really really for it, never been really really against
against it, but he's always said it's inevitable. It is inevitable,
isn't it?
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Look I mean potentially that's what the government is saying
at this point in time. I think we haven't been
given a choice. We've been asked either to join with
the Unitary Authority now or be pushed later. But you
know that is the current proposal from this government, and
you know, things do change.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
I know that timings are concerned for you personally. Do
you think that that would be appeased if they gave
you like six months or are they trying to rush
it before an election.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
I think we really need to understand the impacts longer
term for our community. For example, one of the things
that's on my mind is in our per heart, we
don't have any coastlines right, so we don't have to
consider the future liability of managed retreat and who pays
for that. So those kind of conversations we really need
to understand those before we make a decision informed decision
(03:51):
for our communities, because we are potentially putting future liabilities
on our communities to pay. So my perspective is that
we need to be in a position where we can
have all the information to be able to meaningfully say
whether it is going to be, you know, whether the
benefits are going to outweigh the costs.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Is this an opportunity to get something out of the government, though,
I mean, there must be some upside to this. Have
you seen anything that you thought, Ah, that's an upside.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Oh, there's certainly, you know, some there's certainly benefit of
working better together. And you know, look, we don't even
know what the proposals are at the moment. And I'm
certainly not saying that I'm opposed to amalgamation. I'm just
saying that I can't at this point in time see
that the benefits would outweigh the costs for our community,
(04:38):
and actually, I think our community stands to lose in this. So,
but it depends entirely on what the proposals are. It
depends on what happens in the waded upper For example,
there is a lot of water to go under the bridge,
before we can make an informed opinion on it.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
I think you might have just actually unintentionally got the
byline for it. I think you've just you've got the
actual catchphrase just out of an interview better together.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I love, Yeah, I think I think well, I think
we need we do need to work better together. We
do need to be efficient. But we already have shared
services with Lower Heart, We share symmetry services. You know,
we work together on the landfill. There's lots of things
that we already do together, and it is important to
have those conversations so that we can be you know,
deliver services in the most efficient way for our community.
(05:30):
And you know, as you've pointed out, water has to
be done, you know, together, because that's how the infrastructure functions.
So we do need to work better together. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Now I don't like this idea, but what about amalgamation
with just upper Heart and lower Heart? Would that would
that make it feel a bit more palatable to you.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
I think those sorts of options should be on the
table for our community and for HUT to consider. I
think we shouldn't jump straight to one particular outcome, which
at this point in time looks like a unitary authority
for all the meats in the region.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yea, does it ever excite you?
Speaker 3 (06:12):
One thing that's exciting for me is the opportunity to
do better in relation to transport infrastructure. I think we
absolutely have to plan that better at a regional level.
I think the structures probably already exist for that though,
and we just need to do that more intentionally, in
particular in relation to spatial planning. But that can be
(06:34):
done together in the structures we already have, like the
Willington Regional Leadership Committee for example. So you know, I
think there are parts of it that are exciting about
you know, the opportunity of planning infrastructure better and we
absolutely have to do that.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Now, one final question, how do you get zay out
of z ee?
Speaker 3 (06:58):
It's Dutch, It's a Dutch name. It actually means the sea,
so you know how we have New Zealand. You know,
the original Dutch spelling would have been z ee.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
There you go, because I've got it wrong five to
seven times. But I keep looking at Zee for our
listeners and say that sounds like z to me.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Yeah, I know. It's a challenge. It's a challenge, and look,
I'm relaxed about it. I know that you know it is.
It's a difficult one to get right, but I appreciate
your your diligence this time.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
In checking, and I won't get it wrong again. I
now know who the upper hut maor is. It's Perry Zay.
And thank you for joining us on the show this.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Morning, no problem, Thank you for having me all right.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks There'd be Wellington from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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