June 2, 2026 • 9 mins
Wellington City Mayor Andrew Little spoke to constituents and officials this morning outlining the way forward for council amalgamation, as only ten weeks remain for the government's deadline.
Mayor Little joins Nick on the show this morning to discuss his thoughts and plan as the deadline looms.
With talks of a referendum, Little says if he had to decide today, he would go through with the amalgamation of the "core four" - Porirua, Hutt City and Upper Hutt.
Nick finds out the latest on Upper Hutt's involvement, the effect on rates, what WCC have learnt from the Auckland Supercity merger and the possible structures that could sustain local voices.
Little shares what the next steps look like, including potential of a referdendum.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said b.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Andrew Little joins us. Now, good morning Andrew, Good morning Nick.
What was the purposes this morning?
Speaker 3 (00:19):
It was to just lay out I think where things
are at with the sort of amalgamation debate and the
fact that government sort of said deadline, and to start
getting the conversation going amongst the Wellingtonians. We really we're
only not ten weeks to try and pull something together.
I'd need to get a sense to where Wellringtonians are
at on it. So it's about just getting the debate going,
playing out some of the principles of line, approaching it
(00:39):
with and my view. But this is going to be
something that shares you across Willington, you said.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
This morning, and correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
If the amalgamation voter was right now and you had
a pen in your hand, you'd take yes, one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Yeah, I would do yes.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Tell us about that. I mean why.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Because I think even though we don't have a lot
of information, but from what I know, I think the
benefits are that we get better coordination of cross the region.
Reality is, most of the rest of the country when
they think of Wellington, they think of the four metro
cities that make it up, Lapaha Podudur. When I think
about it now, I've talked to investors coming here. They
(01:20):
think about the region as a whole. I know that
from my envolvement on the Wellington Airport Board. They are
talking to Asian ports about sending long haul planes over here.
They say when they get there, they often said, look
with Google Wellington, it's two hundred and ten thousand people,
so actually we're a region of over half a million.
That completely changes the conversation. So I think we have
(01:42):
much greater benefits if we are coordinating as a region
as a whole. I think there are benefits to get
in terms of cost efficiencies and those sorts of things.
The challenge is getting a good representation structure, but I
think that's possible to do that.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Now.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
What concerns me from listening to you this morning, and
I did listen to you this morning, was that you
don't believe that rates will magically come down. Now you've
just said in your last comment that you think there
will will be some synergies.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Yeah, and over time there will be, because I think
there's you know, you're not having the four lots of
senior leadership and for chief executives and all that sort
of stuff. But most importantly, over time, you've got to
you've got a streamline your consenting processes and all those
sort of back office processes. But that doesn't happen straight away.
And if you look at the a Awkland example, you
(02:34):
know they will say that a top four or five
years before they actually saw efficiencies coming through. So I'm
not I'm not going to mislead people and say look,
we'll get an agamation and that we've cut their rates
will drop on year one, because that's just not going
to happen. So it's just about being honest about what
what that future looks like. There will be efficiencies, but
they'll take some years to emerge.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
Every time we talk about this on the show, and
we talk about it regularly because it's a hot topic
at the moment, a lot of people hear the word
super city and immediately think of the early days of
Auckland and the issues that are Auckland to have. How
will you be able to do this differently?
Speaker 3 (03:11):
I think, I mean we can learn from Auckland, and
I look looking at their sort of local board model.
I think that's part of the frustration is that you've
got you got a council that represents a population of
one point seven million. A whole bunch of people don't
feel as if the council, or when it meets as
a council, have any understanding knowledge of the street they
live in, or the park that's needed them, all that
(03:33):
sort of stuff. So I think we can learn from
that is that you're still going to have a structure
underneath your big council that is much more local and
as she devolves some real power to them. So give
the local committee the power decide what money to spend
on community halls, on upgrading the roads or the kids
park or whatever that sort of stuff. Give them some
(03:54):
real sort of responsibility. But let at the big council
level meet that band a kind of planning, resourcing, long term,
thinking about the feature staff, working with the big and
best those sorts of things. You can split that out.
You can split that out quite nicely.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
Okay, now you've said you know the government, and we
know that the government's given you ten weeks. You've described
that as unrealistic. What concerns me as a Wellington rate payer,
is this could drag on. This could be a situation
where you ask for more time, an election comes along
and we're still talking about it early next year.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Yeah, yeah, and fair enough, because you know that's the
thing is if you don't have any if you don't
have a time frame to do it, and things will
just get traded out. I get that. I just think
ten weeks is a long given. They may made the
announcement at the end of last year, the local council,
we all got together or said, right, you're going to
grip this up. We're going to do something and get
on with it. Now we've got this deadline. Look, we
will do something. I'm confident we will do something, but
(04:50):
it won't be a detailed plan because it can't be.
And then we've still got what happens after that, and
you know, depending on what happens with the election, then
there's is set the decisions. We still have to pull
together a more detailed plan. We still have to get
people's input. So look, well, get well, I'm confident we
will get there, but we've got to move at a
pace that people feel as if they get a tough
(05:11):
to have there say, they put their view and it's
going to be taken into account.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Last time we spoke about it on the show, you
kept sort of, I don't know, getting fired up about
it being bigger, being y rapper and being horror for
no horror for new have told you they want to
be involved, cappity not so keen.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
How big are we looking?
Speaker 3 (05:31):
But that's still yet to be sorted. I mean, I
think that those things are all in the mix at
the moment, all of those areas. But they've got to
make their decision. I think though each of those councils
have to make their decision. But you know, all the
mayors in the region, including White Enough, including we're all
meeting on a regular basis, putting the working on the
plan kind of bring stuff to get So what in
(05:53):
the mix at the moment?
Speaker 4 (05:54):
What happens, for instance, and we're we're seeing it already
that Upper Ut mayor Perri Sa says no, Upper Hut
voted they don't want to be involved in it, but
everyone else does, or kup of the says the same.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
What happens then well, I.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Mean the government will end up making the decision. That's
the whole thing. And because they've said, look, if you
don't sort it out yourselves. We will sort it out.
But the plan that they put the announcement they made
was that if, for example, three out of four councils
say it but makes sense for us to come together,
the Governor's reserving its rights to say, you know what,
the four of you can go together. And so for
Upper Heart people, they're going to have to think about
(06:30):
do they get to control their destiny or are they
just going to wait for something to happen to them.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
You said four of you stick together, so you're in
the bottom of your heart, you're thinking it's only going
to be the four, the big, the wider amalgamation is
not going to happen.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Oh no, I think there's a possibility. I think there's
a possibility wided Upper well I mean just talking to them,
they are saying they can see how those three can
work together, but they are saying that they don't see
how they can do everything that a unitary council has
to do, and therefore it makes sense for them to
remain linked to Wellington. So that's their position as they
(07:05):
spilt it out to me.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Was Upper Hutmere Prairie say at the meeting this morning.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
No, I don't think she was.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
No, and yet I saw Anita Baker, I saw Ken Laban,
So there's obviously an issue, wasn't there.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Oh No, I think in fairness, Perry's you know, she's
among with school kids and she's a long way away,
so she is. She wasn't there this morning, but she's
she's totally engaged in the discussions with the other mayors
in the region.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Okay, what happens next and how quickly?
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Well, now we're just we're sort of start gathering up
ideas from people. So we've got to details the work
that where people can let me know theirbuts will continue
to work. All the councils will continue to work together
as meyors and as officers, pulling stuff together, and we'll
look there will be some public meetings. They're already in
the hut will in Willington City. We'll organize some public engagement.
(08:03):
We'll have the council here, we'll have some public hearings.
But like we've just done with the annual plan, and
then we'll get to August and we'll kind of see
where we're at and hopefully we'll have something to put
to the ministers.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
I mean you're sounding like it's a fate to complete.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Yeah, I don't want to. I mean I did say
my speech to the if after all this process truncated
as it is, it looks like there's no real case
to say, bring it all together and status cris is
the right thing. I'll say that. But that's why it's
important that I do get to hear from as many
wantingtainings as possible.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
My issue is that you can do all that and
probably get all that antiness towards it and all that people,
and then the government's going to turn around and say
do it anyway.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Yeah, they might do, and that's I think. Look, but
we've got to get the end. We've got to know
what people's anxieties are, what we know, what the grounds
people's opposition are is. We need to know why people
are in favor of it. We need to know whether
there are issues that need to be addressed and need
to be thought about. Look, some people are going to
be a past of everything. Some people, you know, want
to go along to what's easy. That's the full range
(09:09):
of sort of things that happened. But I think we've
got to think, Keith about what the benefits might be
what the cost might be way all that up, but
you're right. The government has made it pretty clear if
you don't sort something out real sort of out for you.
And that's how it comes back to that whole thing.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
What was the vibe like, really quickly, because I've got
to go, I've taken too much of your time. What
was the vibe like, did it feel like we're all
in this together or oh, we're not too sure about this.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
No, the feedback I had after the speech was very
very positive, very very positive from the whole range of
people who were there.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
Wanting to me Andrew Little, thank you for joining us
this morning, and yeah, keep up the good work.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Now.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks There'd Be Wellington from nine am week days,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Wellington Mornings podcast with Nick Mills
from news Talk said b.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Andrew Little joins us. Now, good morning Andrew, Good morning Nick.
What was the purposes this morning?
Speaker 3 (00:19):
It was to just lay out I think where things
are at with the sort of amalgamation debate and the
fact that government sort of said deadline, and to start
getting the conversation going amongst the Wellingtonians. We really we're
only not ten weeks to try and pull something together.
I'd need to get a sense to where Wellringtonians are
at on it. So it's about just getting the debate going,
playing out some of the principles of line, approaching it
(00:39):
with and my view. But this is going to be
something that shares you across Willington, you said.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
This morning, and correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
If the amalgamation voter was right now and you had
a pen in your hand, you'd take yes, one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Yeah, I would do yes.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Tell us about that. I mean why.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Because I think even though we don't have a lot
of information, but from what I know, I think the
benefits are that we get better coordination of cross the region.
Reality is, most of the rest of the country when
they think of Wellington, they think of the four metro
cities that make it up, Lapaha Podudur. When I think
about it now, I've talked to investors coming here. They
(01:20):
think about the region as a whole. I know that
from my envolvement on the Wellington Airport Board. They are
talking to Asian ports about sending long haul planes over here.
They say when they get there, they often said, look
with Google Wellington, it's two hundred and ten thousand people,
so actually we're a region of over half a million.
That completely changes the conversation. So I think we have
(01:42):
much greater benefits if we are coordinating as a region
as a whole. I think there are benefits to get
in terms of cost efficiencies and those sorts of things.
The challenge is getting a good representation structure, but I
think that's possible to do that.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Now.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
What concerns me from listening to you this morning, and
I did listen to you this morning, was that you
don't believe that rates will magically come down. Now you've
just said in your last comment that you think there
will will be some synergies.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Yeah, and over time there will be, because I think
there's you know, you're not having the four lots of
senior leadership and for chief executives and all that sort
of stuff. But most importantly, over time, you've got to
you've got a streamline your consenting processes and all those
sort of back office processes. But that doesn't happen straight away.
And if you look at the a Awkland example, you
(02:34):
know they will say that a top four or five
years before they actually saw efficiencies coming through. So I'm
not I'm not going to mislead people and say look,
we'll get an agamation and that we've cut their rates
will drop on year one, because that's just not going
to happen. So it's just about being honest about what
what that future looks like. There will be efficiencies, but
they'll take some years to emerge.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
Every time we talk about this on the show, and
we talk about it regularly because it's a hot topic
at the moment, a lot of people hear the word
super city and immediately think of the early days of
Auckland and the issues that are Auckland to have. How
will you be able to do this differently?
Speaker 3 (03:11):
I think, I mean we can learn from Auckland, and
I look looking at their sort of local board model.
I think that's part of the frustration is that you've
got you got a council that represents a population of
one point seven million. A whole bunch of people don't
feel as if the council, or when it meets as
a council, have any understanding knowledge of the street they
live in, or the park that's needed them, all that
(03:33):
sort of stuff. So I think we can learn from
that is that you're still going to have a structure
underneath your big council that is much more local and
as she devolves some real power to them. So give
the local committee the power decide what money to spend
on community halls, on upgrading the roads or the kids
park or whatever that sort of stuff. Give them some
(03:54):
real sort of responsibility. But let at the big council
level meet that band a kind of planning, resourcing, long term,
thinking about the feature staff, working with the big and
best those sorts of things. You can split that out.
You can split that out quite nicely.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
Okay, now you've said you know the government, and we
know that the government's given you ten weeks. You've described
that as unrealistic. What concerns me as a Wellington rate payer,
is this could drag on. This could be a situation
where you ask for more time, an election comes along
and we're still talking about it early next year.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Yeah, yeah, and fair enough, because you know that's the
thing is if you don't have any if you don't
have a time frame to do it, and things will
just get traded out. I get that. I just think
ten weeks is a long given. They may made the
announcement at the end of last year, the local council,
we all got together or said, right, you're going to
grip this up. We're going to do something and get
on with it. Now we've got this deadline. Look, we
will do something. I'm confident we will do something, but
(04:50):
it won't be a detailed plan because it can't be.
And then we've still got what happens after that, and
you know, depending on what happens with the election, then
there's is set the decisions. We still have to pull
together a more detailed plan. We still have to get
people's input. So look, well, get well, I'm confident we
will get there, but we've got to move at a
pace that people feel as if they get a tough
(05:11):
to have there say, they put their view and it's
going to be taken into account.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Last time we spoke about it on the show, you
kept sort of, I don't know, getting fired up about
it being bigger, being y rapper and being horror for
no horror for new have told you they want to
be involved, cappity not so keen.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
How big are we looking?
Speaker 3 (05:31):
But that's still yet to be sorted. I mean, I
think that those things are all in the mix at
the moment, all of those areas. But they've got to
make their decision. I think though each of those councils
have to make their decision. But you know, all the
mayors in the region, including White Enough, including we're all
meeting on a regular basis, putting the working on the
plan kind of bring stuff to get So what in
(05:53):
the mix at the moment?
Speaker 4 (05:54):
What happens, for instance, and we're we're seeing it already
that Upper Ut mayor Perri Sa says no, Upper Hut
voted they don't want to be involved in it, but
everyone else does, or kup of the says the same.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
What happens then well, I.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Mean the government will end up making the decision. That's
the whole thing. And because they've said, look, if you
don't sort it out yourselves. We will sort it out.
But the plan that they put the announcement they made
was that if, for example, three out of four councils
say it but makes sense for us to come together,
the Governor's reserving its rights to say, you know what,
the four of you can go together. And so for
Upper Heart people, they're going to have to think about
(06:30):
do they get to control their destiny or are they
just going to wait for something to happen to them.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
You said four of you stick together, so you're in
the bottom of your heart, you're thinking it's only going
to be the four, the big, the wider amalgamation is
not going to happen.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Oh no, I think there's a possibility. I think there's
a possibility wided Upper well I mean just talking to them,
they are saying they can see how those three can
work together, but they are saying that they don't see
how they can do everything that a unitary council has
to do, and therefore it makes sense for them to
remain linked to Wellington. So that's their position as they
(07:05):
spilt it out to me.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Was Upper Hutmere Prairie say at the meeting this morning.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
No, I don't think she was.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
No, and yet I saw Anita Baker, I saw Ken Laban,
So there's obviously an issue, wasn't there.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Oh No, I think in fairness, Perry's you know, she's
among with school kids and she's a long way away,
so she is. She wasn't there this morning, but she's
she's totally engaged in the discussions with the other mayors
in the region.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Okay, what happens next and how quickly?
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Well, now we're just we're sort of start gathering up
ideas from people. So we've got to details the work
that where people can let me know theirbuts will continue
to work. All the councils will continue to work together
as meyors and as officers, pulling stuff together, and we'll
look there will be some public meetings. They're already in
the hut will in Willington City. We'll organize some public engagement.
(08:03):
We'll have the council here, we'll have some public hearings.
But like we've just done with the annual plan, and
then we'll get to August and we'll kind of see
where we're at and hopefully we'll have something to put
to the ministers.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
I mean you're sounding like it's a fate to complete.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Yeah, I don't want to. I mean I did say
my speech to the if after all this process truncated
as it is, it looks like there's no real case
to say, bring it all together and status cris is
the right thing. I'll say that. But that's why it's
important that I do get to hear from as many
wantingtainings as possible.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
My issue is that you can do all that and
probably get all that antiness towards it and all that people,
and then the government's going to turn around and say
do it anyway.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Yeah, they might do, and that's I think. Look, but
we've got to get the end. We've got to know
what people's anxieties are, what we know, what the grounds
people's opposition are is. We need to know why people
are in favor of it. We need to know whether
there are issues that need to be addressed and need
to be thought about. Look, some people are going to
be a past of everything. Some people, you know, want
to go along to what's easy. That's the full range
(09:09):
of sort of things that happened. But I think we've
got to think, Keith about what the benefits might be
what the cost might be way all that up, but
you're right. The government has made it pretty clear if
you don't sort something out real sort of out for you.
And that's how it comes back to that whole thing.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
What was the vibe like, really quickly, because I've got
to go, I've taken too much of your time. What
was the vibe like, did it feel like we're all
in this together or oh, we're not too sure about this.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
No, the feedback I had after the speech was very
very positive, very very positive from the whole range of
people who were there.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
Wanting to me Andrew Little, thank you for joining us
this morning, and yeah, keep up the good work.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Now.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
For more from Wellington Mornings with Nick Mills, listen live
to news talks There'd Be Wellington from nine am week days,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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