August 18, 2024 • 7 mins
Famed referee Ben O'Keeffe has broken a record last set in 2005. O'Keeffe has now refereed a whopping 222 15's games. He joins Craig Cumming to chat about the milestone.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This now, welcome in a man who's just set a
record two hundred and twenty two games and referring fifteen's
have been a Keith, Good morning, Ben.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
How are you morning, Craig, thank you, we'll talk.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Congratulations you've said a new record you've taken over from
Patio O'Brien. That's a lot of games of rugby to
be abused.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Certainly, a lot of games are rugby to be involved
in the middle. And yes, cuddainly you do notice the
attention on your matches and the crowds and your games
they get they get bigger and louder the more you do.
So suddenly after two hundred and twenty two, I've had
my fairst year. But it's been fantastic as you ever.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Thought you get that many, I mean you're still going,
so it's not the end of it. But I mean
that's that's a lot of games of first class rugby.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Oh look, I had that no idea. I mean when
I started referring, you know, when I was at university,
just outside of the classroom and you know, just to
get out and be active in the weekends, and then
you know, you start doing first class games and you're
just grateful to be involved in the middle every weekend.
So going through Heartland, NBC Super Rugby, the way the
test matches, you know, that was just a dream come
(01:02):
true for me. So this this sort of record, I
never really had my eye on it, and you know,
when I realized I was sort of coming up to
it over the last few weeks, I just I thought, wow,
you know, and I was able to sort of reflect
on on what it all meant. And you're right, like,
how many games are being involved in It's it's been
been been special and yeah, they just said I'm looking
forward to it to a few more.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean you've got to have the skin.
We know that, and we all throw things at the
TV and you're the you get blamed for so much,
but I mean, how much what's changed, you know from
that first game? So now, what's changed in the game
of the rugby that you noticed the most being out
in the middle.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Well, I think the games it's evolving. You know, we're
always in the space where we're trying to improve the game.
So you know, it's safer for players to play. We
want we want kids starting to play rugby. We want
players to play rugby. Into until they're older, and you know,
the same thing around players safety, but also and he
can spectators to watch it so they enjoy the games,
they want to actually turn it on and we can
(02:00):
actually want to go down to Eden Park and watch
a game live. So there's a lot of changes that
are happening around the rules they're always having to adapt to,
and I like the space in the direction that we're
going in. Obviously there's all the external pressure and attention
and media brings to the party with social media and stuff,
but often it's a minority group which have the loudest,
you know, the smallest of the loudest people involved, and
(02:23):
it's a small part, but you know, overall, the whole
game is moving in a great direction, and I love
the change that's been happening over the last I think
twelve years it's been since I had my first class game.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Yeah, is that the hardest part of the role that
I suppose that, Yeah, the fan the abuse, you know,
that sort of things, is that the hardest part to
get used to and actually be able to evolve and
come up with strategies to be able to deal with.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
It. Definitely is definitely the hardest piece. But there are
people around that support you so well that it's a
great skill to be able to manage it and work
through things like that. And it's a very small part
of the game because the positives are it and you know,
the benefits other being part of it just totally outweigh
all the very few times that, you know, you might
have the situations where you're on the bad end of
(03:08):
someone else giving it for a stick. But I absolutely
love it. And you know, what rugby has given me
as a person, I think has been you know, the
biggest thing that I'm grateful for, you know, in those
two hundred and twenty two games, and despite being involved
in that many games, I know that you know, for
the next next few years i'm involved, I'm going to
keep learning more. And that's what I'm really excited for.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
When it comes to the rugby, I mean, obviously international
rugby it's different, but getting back to like MPC and
we are, you know, it's more of an amateur game.
We've got a lot more club players coming through. I mean,
do you enjoy getting back to that level where maybe
a bit more freedom, a bit more openness and not
not so much intensity.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
I absolutely love it. I think it's such a dentastic
commodition of just the NBC, but Heartland even club rugby
when you do some club rugby during the during the
year as well, getting back to grassrooms. Just people really
you know, smil and the throne the ball are enjoying it.
That's the type of that's the type of foy that
you know. That's the reason why I started refereeing. So
I think, you know, grassroots rugby in New Zealand, NBC
(04:08):
in New Zealand is a fantastic competition that we're getting involved.
And you look at even you even yesterday or the
round that we had over the weekend, horrible, horrible conditions,
but we had some really tight games and some really
competitive games. And you know what the NBC does is
that we've got the All Black's doing really well on
a Saturday night and then you watch in a Saturday
afternoon and the Sunday afternoon you sort of see the
(04:30):
new talent of players coming through. So that's pretty exciting
and it's exciting to be part of as a referee.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, I mean I just read out earlier the scores
in the Heartland Cham is a real close around. Again,
that's our real grassroots. You know, when it comes to
I'm always interested. I mean when it comes to what
your role is in the middle, I mean, how do
you how do you see what you need to see
because there are so many moving parts in the game,
and I know you're connected to the touch line payers
and that, but you know what, what do you need
(04:58):
to do to be able to referee again well and
be able to interpretake too many laws and actually be
able to see what you're doing because it just blows
me away every time you try, and because I mean
I've got it on TV, Ben and I miss things
and we like to think we don't miss anything at hope.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
It was good to hear you that. I'm not sure
at home that can would like to do the same
as well. But look, it's definitely a skill. You can't
just go up there and referee a game or rugby.
Has taken a turns in twenty two games to build
my craft, and a lot of it's around role clarity,
how you set your assistant referees up for how they
can help you. Because the game can't be refereed by
(05:35):
one man or woman in the middle anymore. It needs
the team of four. Sometimes a team of five to
each know their roles really really well, so assystem refree
you know, really clear on what the sideline is and
it allows you to refee what's in front of you.
And I think it's really important to have a good
understanding of the game. And you know, we naturally get
that as children in New Zealand. We grow up watching
a lot of rugby. So you get a good feel
(05:56):
for the game, you play it, and yeah, then it's
about trying to sigh for one hundred and twenty page
more book into you know, what are the one or
two crucial key decisions for this tackle that happens. You know,
one hundred and fifty times in a game you got
to go from tackle to ruck to them all. So
you've got to pick the real one or two crucial
things that you can you can take. And you know,
(06:16):
it's about getting the clear and obvious that yourself at
home or people in the stand why when they watch it,
they see the decision you make, they go, yep, I
can understand that rather than trying to pull the head
or something, Really.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
What do you make it? What do you make of
the new real change, especially like the line out If
there's no competition not going straight?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Does that help you? Oh? I love it, honestly. The
hookers love it as well. I think I had two
situations of my game yesterday where you know, for no
fault of the hooker, slippy conditions, pretty windy, you know,
intends to throw the ball down the middle and it
goes a little bit not straight. But the other teens
compete and traditionally, you know, we've always handled the ball
over to the opposition when the've done actually nothing at all.
So I love it. I think it's, you know, talking
(06:55):
about the direction the game is moving decisions like that,
people understand the game and love the game. So I
think that that new raw when you know the other
six seven NET where we're twirling and NBC now, I'm
sure we'll see that on the international game pretty soon.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Yeah, I agree. Well, thanks very much for joining us
being congratulations on the two to two two and we
look forward to many more and enjoy watching you doing
your craft. Well done, and thank.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
You, thanks Graig.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
There we go being okif yet two hundred and twenty
two games, that's a huge amount, I mean, and still
a young man. Still a young man, I said, I mean,
and saying that I do know what it's like going
to work and probably knowing that you're going to get
abused every day. You get it in club rug but
you get in junior rugby, which blows my mind. I
went to a game not long ago and I had
to I nearly pulled out my phone. I go on
(07:41):
about it my local show. I nearly pulled out my
phone and started recording a person. I also know a
person who was sent from the sideline in a kids
game of football.
This now, welcome in a man who's just set a
record two hundred and twenty two games and referring fifteen's
have been a Keith, Good morning, Ben.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
How are you morning, Craig, thank you, we'll talk.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Congratulations you've said a new record you've taken over from
Patio O'Brien. That's a lot of games of rugby to
be abused.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Certainly, a lot of games are rugby to be involved
in the middle. And yes, cuddainly you do notice the
attention on your matches and the crowds and your games
they get they get bigger and louder the more you do.
So suddenly after two hundred and twenty two, I've had
my fairst year. But it's been fantastic as you ever.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Thought you get that many, I mean you're still going,
so it's not the end of it. But I mean
that's that's a lot of games of first class rugby.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Oh look, I had that no idea. I mean when
I started referring, you know, when I was at university,
just outside of the classroom and you know, just to
get out and be active in the weekends, and then
you know, you start doing first class games and you're
just grateful to be involved in the middle every weekend.
So going through Heartland, NBC Super Rugby, the way the
test matches, you know, that was just a dream come
(01:02):
true for me. So this this sort of record, I
never really had my eye on it, and you know,
when I realized I was sort of coming up to
it over the last few weeks, I just I thought, wow,
you know, and I was able to sort of reflect
on on what it all meant. And you're right, like,
how many games are being involved in It's it's been
been been special and yeah, they just said I'm looking
forward to it to a few more.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean you've got to have the skin.
We know that, and we all throw things at the
TV and you're the you get blamed for so much,
but I mean, how much what's changed, you know from
that first game? So now, what's changed in the game
of the rugby that you noticed the most being out
in the middle.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Well, I think the games it's evolving. You know, we're
always in the space where we're trying to improve the game.
So you know, it's safer for players to play. We
want we want kids starting to play rugby. We want
players to play rugby. Into until they're older, and you know,
the same thing around players safety, but also and he
can spectators to watch it so they enjoy the games,
they want to actually turn it on and we can
(02:00):
actually want to go down to Eden Park and watch
a game live. So there's a lot of changes that
are happening around the rules they're always having to adapt to,
and I like the space in the direction that we're
going in. Obviously there's all the external pressure and attention
and media brings to the party with social media and stuff,
but often it's a minority group which have the loudest,
you know, the smallest of the loudest people involved, and
(02:23):
it's a small part, but you know, overall, the whole
game is moving in a great direction, and I love
the change that's been happening over the last I think
twelve years it's been since I had my first class game.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Yeah, is that the hardest part of the role that
I suppose that, Yeah, the fan the abuse, you know,
that sort of things, is that the hardest part to
get used to and actually be able to evolve and
come up with strategies to be able to deal with.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
It. Definitely is definitely the hardest piece. But there are
people around that support you so well that it's a
great skill to be able to manage it and work
through things like that. And it's a very small part
of the game because the positives are it and you know,
the benefits other being part of it just totally outweigh
all the very few times that, you know, you might
have the situations where you're on the bad end of
(03:08):
someone else giving it for a stick. But I absolutely
love it. And you know, what rugby has given me
as a person, I think has been you know, the
biggest thing that I'm grateful for, you know, in those
two hundred and twenty two games, and despite being involved
in that many games, I know that you know, for
the next next few years i'm involved, I'm going to
keep learning more. And that's what I'm really excited for.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
When it comes to the rugby, I mean, obviously international
rugby it's different, but getting back to like MPC and
we are, you know, it's more of an amateur game.
We've got a lot more club players coming through. I mean,
do you enjoy getting back to that level where maybe
a bit more freedom, a bit more openness and not
not so much intensity.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
I absolutely love it. I think it's such a dentastic
commodition of just the NBC, but Heartland even club rugby
when you do some club rugby during the during the
year as well, getting back to grassrooms. Just people really
you know, smil and the throne the ball are enjoying it.
That's the type of that's the type of foy that
you know. That's the reason why I started refereeing. So
I think, you know, grassroots rugby in New Zealand, NBC
(04:08):
in New Zealand is a fantastic competition that we're getting involved.
And you look at even you even yesterday or the
round that we had over the weekend, horrible, horrible conditions,
but we had some really tight games and some really
competitive games. And you know what the NBC does is
that we've got the All Black's doing really well on
a Saturday night and then you watch in a Saturday
afternoon and the Sunday afternoon you sort of see the
(04:30):
new talent of players coming through. So that's pretty exciting
and it's exciting to be part of as a referee.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, I mean I just read out earlier the scores
in the Heartland Cham is a real close around. Again,
that's our real grassroots. You know, when it comes to
I'm always interested. I mean when it comes to what
your role is in the middle, I mean, how do
you how do you see what you need to see
because there are so many moving parts in the game,
and I know you're connected to the touch line payers
and that, but you know what, what do you need
(04:58):
to do to be able to referee again well and
be able to interpretake too many laws and actually be
able to see what you're doing because it just blows
me away every time you try, and because I mean
I've got it on TV, Ben and I miss things
and we like to think we don't miss anything at hope.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
It was good to hear you that. I'm not sure
at home that can would like to do the same
as well. But look, it's definitely a skill. You can't
just go up there and referee a game or rugby.
Has taken a turns in twenty two games to build
my craft, and a lot of it's around role clarity,
how you set your assistant referees up for how they
can help you. Because the game can't be refereed by
(05:35):
one man or woman in the middle anymore. It needs
the team of four. Sometimes a team of five to
each know their roles really really well, so assystem refree
you know, really clear on what the sideline is and
it allows you to refee what's in front of you.
And I think it's really important to have a good
understanding of the game. And you know, we naturally get
that as children in New Zealand. We grow up watching
a lot of rugby. So you get a good feel
(05:56):
for the game, you play it, and yeah, then it's
about trying to sigh for one hundred and twenty page
more book into you know, what are the one or
two crucial key decisions for this tackle that happens. You know,
one hundred and fifty times in a game you got
to go from tackle to ruck to them all. So
you've got to pick the real one or two crucial
things that you can you can take. And you know,
(06:16):
it's about getting the clear and obvious that yourself at
home or people in the stand why when they watch it,
they see the decision you make, they go, yep, I
can understand that rather than trying to pull the head
or something, Really.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
What do you make it? What do you make of
the new real change, especially like the line out If
there's no competition not going straight?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Does that help you? Oh? I love it, honestly. The
hookers love it as well. I think I had two
situations of my game yesterday where you know, for no
fault of the hooker, slippy conditions, pretty windy, you know,
intends to throw the ball down the middle and it
goes a little bit not straight. But the other teens
compete and traditionally, you know, we've always handled the ball
over to the opposition when the've done actually nothing at all.
So I love it. I think it's, you know, talking
(06:55):
about the direction the game is moving decisions like that,
people understand the game and love the game. So I
think that that new raw when you know the other
six seven NET where we're twirling and NBC now, I'm
sure we'll see that on the international game pretty soon.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Yeah, I agree. Well, thanks very much for joining us
being congratulations on the two to two two and we
look forward to many more and enjoy watching you doing
your craft. Well done, and thank.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
You, thanks Graig.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
There we go being okif yet two hundred and twenty
two games, that's a huge amount, I mean, and still
a young man. Still a young man, I said, I mean,
and saying that I do know what it's like going
to work and probably knowing that you're going to get
abused every day. You get it in club rug but
you get in junior rugby, which blows my mind. I
went to a game not long ago and I had
to I nearly pulled out my phone. I go on
(07:41):
about it my local show. I nearly pulled out my
phone and started recording a person. I also know a
person who was sent from the sideline in a kids
game of football.
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