September 24, 2024 • 8 mins
Heading to Argentina to catch up with lead rugby writer Frankie Degas to talk the pumas shock win over South Africa and can they do it again this coming weekend?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
International rugby coverage on the country. Sport Breakfast is proudly
brought to you by Access Solutions, elevating you and your
business to a higher level. We're talking international rugby now
on the show where South Africa and Argentina will face
each other again this Sunday morning, New Zealand time kickoff
our time is at four o'clock. It could be a
(00:22):
rugby Championship where it will be a Rugby Championship decider.
Joining us on the show this morning out of Argentina,
Lead rugby writer Frankie Degas. Morning, Frankie, good after them
for you guys, gonna first off, congratulate you getting up
to beat the spring Box by one point last weekend.
That was close.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
That was nervous, nervousness whole the way through the final minutes.
It seemed like it was gonna go the Springboks way
and it didn't. And Argentina just have to win. Just
have the win. I mean it could have gone either way.
Nor would have complained, but they just have the win
and the possib video going for the title in neurs
(01:07):
frit is it a game too far probably, but they
put themselves in that position. It's been an incredible rugby
championship beating the three teams, So it's it's a great opportunity.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
You've been following this team for a long time, Frankie.
What's been the big change in Argentinian rugby over the
last couple of years. I mean you've been able to
beat the likes of the All Blacks the spring Box
on a more regular basis. What have you noticed.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
For starters the last couple of years Argentina stuck with
a fly half first five. Sorry, that was not the
ideal player for the team in that position. He's a
player that must be at least in the twenty three.
That Santeo Careras. He's an extremely good player, but he
never really fitted at ten and now so they played
(02:00):
Anos and uh it clicked. Have said that care has
played against the All Blacks at ten, played against the
Wallabies and the spring Box. But we seem to have
a different tempo, a different quality in what we're doing,
mostly with the bags and now we're putting the ball
in the in the opposition field.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
With Alnos having these wins beating the best teams around.
Is the younger generation in Argentina now picking up the
game of rugby or is it still sort of football
football football over the year.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
No, it's football football football all over the place. UH
and rugby players also play and dream and and and
breathe football. But we have a we have a very
solid UH rugby scene here in Argentina. We got some
six hundred clubs all over the country north to southeast
(02:58):
to west, and it's a very big country. We have
organized rugby in the twenty four provinces, that is with tournaments,
inter provincial tournaments, regional tournaments, domestic tournaments, and yeah, I
mean it's growing. I got one of my son's place
on the nineteenth and that's a very very strong tournament
(03:20):
in Buenos Aires. And it is all over the place,
so we're not struggling for numbers. And the crop that
comes up is always good.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
And I guess also a lot of you seen your players,
your big names are also playing and you're playing in France,
aren't I.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Yeah, France and England. We had Matteta who played a
season with the Crusaders and then went to Japan. So
the situation here is we still have amateur rugby except
for Super Rugby Americas, which is a regional competition Argentina.
We have three teams next year. They had two teams
in the last two three years. They play against franchises
(04:02):
from Chile, Paraguay, Brazil, Uruguay and USA, and that's a
middle tier competition. It's a six month competition. The salaries
are not good enough. It would be like a salary
for an NPC player and then they take the jump
(04:22):
and go to France. That would be basically the equation.
So a player that really stands out, he'll make his
coin going overseas and even the development at a professional
club playing twelve months a year is much much bigger
than playing for a franchise in the reason for six
but it is a very good competition and it's putting
(04:42):
players through. He had his first cap the other day.
He came through Super Rugby Americas Molina. Who's going to
try against the All Blacks. He came through Super Rugby
Americas capturing the champion side this year, so it is
producing that next tier of players.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
So interesting stats out of this year's Rugby Championship. Your
team Argentina the only team to yet to receive a
red or a yellow card in the Championship and they've
conceded the fewest penalties I think fifty of any team
in the campaign. In fact, they haven't received a red
or a yellow card across the last twelve test matches.
So discipline, obviously for the Pumas is world class, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
It is, And it was an issue in years gone.
Whenever they were getting any momentum, there was penalty, there
was a yellow card or something that kind of stopped that.
If you remember Tom he was he would get a
yellow card every two games or whatever he was. He was,
really he had an initial with with the discipline and
(05:50):
it wasn't only it was tactical discipline as well. With Verdi,
the new coach, who's who's been one of our greatest players.
He's a member of the International World Rugby's Hall of Fame.
I mean he's he's been there and done that. He
did his apprenticeship as coach and now as head coach.
(06:10):
He's definitely instilling something in the team that is new
and and is positive and and they're believing what he's
what he's telling and asking them to do and it's working.
So discipline, a new fly half, a new coach with
great ideas, it's a it's a lethal combination.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yeah, absolutely so Frankie, can they do it again this
coming Sunday morning? Why in South Africa? I mean, what
do they need to do to get the win? Uh?
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Find out if Zuzi is available and uh, if not,
it's going to be very hard. It's got to be
very hard. Busted the spring Walks. They've already named the
team and uh yeah, it's it's it's an incredible team.
They're playing at home. They rested players. They didn't fly
some some of their players that would be starting on
(07:00):
on on the weekend, they didn't fly them to Argentina
to keep them rested. They're defending world champions. They won't
want to lose at home. And Argentina a still this
humble team that has to take game game by game
by game and they just need to be consistent. They
can't allow themselves to have the situation they had with
(07:22):
the All Backs where they won the first week and
then they went to Eat and Park and it was
a big loss. So if they're competitive, if they can
keep the scores low, that would make a big difference.
And if that happens, then it's INSPI inch point by point.
Anything could happen, but I would my mind sets that
(07:42):
the Springboks cannot lose my heart something different of course.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Yeah, absolutely. Is there much talk to get argent to
the inside into Super Rugby in the future.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Frankie, I'm not really sure. I know this dealing of
South Africa New Zealand playing each other every two years
is something that is not good for us Super Rugby.
I think it's that's a closed door, but I don't know.
I mean that everybody's playing with their cards close to
(08:15):
the tests. It's a poker game, and and it's TV
rights and and the works. I think I think that's
that's a closed door. But hopefully they will retain the
Rugby Championship as it is with at least two games
against each of the opposition, and that will give us
six very good games every every year.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Frankie, thank you for giving up your time and joining
us good luck on Sunday morning, New Zealand time. Thank
you so much, it'll be a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
And thanks for.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Coding Argentinian rugby writer Frankie. I guess it's got a
good scene to hume. How do they beat them? Here?
Susi the tea lady
International rugby coverage on the country. Sport Breakfast is proudly
brought to you by Access Solutions, elevating you and your
business to a higher level. We're talking international rugby now
on the show where South Africa and Argentina will face
each other again this Sunday morning, New Zealand time kickoff
our time is at four o'clock. It could be a
(00:22):
rugby Championship where it will be a Rugby Championship decider.
Joining us on the show this morning out of Argentina,
Lead rugby writer Frankie Degas. Morning, Frankie, good after them
for you guys, gonna first off, congratulate you getting up
to beat the spring Box by one point last weekend.
That was close.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
That was nervous, nervousness whole the way through the final minutes.
It seemed like it was gonna go the Springboks way
and it didn't. And Argentina just have to win. Just
have the win. I mean it could have gone either way.
Nor would have complained, but they just have the win
and the possib video going for the title in neurs
(01:07):
frit is it a game too far probably, but they
put themselves in that position. It's been an incredible rugby
championship beating the three teams, So it's it's a great opportunity.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
You've been following this team for a long time, Frankie.
What's been the big change in Argentinian rugby over the
last couple of years. I mean you've been able to
beat the likes of the All Blacks the spring Box
on a more regular basis. What have you noticed.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
For starters the last couple of years Argentina stuck with
a fly half first five. Sorry, that was not the
ideal player for the team in that position. He's a
player that must be at least in the twenty three.
That Santeo Careras. He's an extremely good player, but he
never really fitted at ten and now so they played
(02:00):
Anos and uh it clicked. Have said that care has
played against the All Blacks at ten, played against the
Wallabies and the spring Box. But we seem to have
a different tempo, a different quality in what we're doing,
mostly with the bags and now we're putting the ball
in the in the opposition field.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
With Alnos having these wins beating the best teams around.
Is the younger generation in Argentina now picking up the
game of rugby or is it still sort of football
football football over the year.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
No, it's football football football all over the place. UH
and rugby players also play and dream and and and
breathe football. But we have a we have a very
solid UH rugby scene here in Argentina. We got some
six hundred clubs all over the country north to southeast
(02:58):
to west, and it's a very big country. We have
organized rugby in the twenty four provinces, that is with tournaments,
inter provincial tournaments, regional tournaments, domestic tournaments, and yeah, I
mean it's growing. I got one of my son's place
on the nineteenth and that's a very very strong tournament
(03:20):
in Buenos Aires. And it is all over the place,
so we're not struggling for numbers. And the crop that
comes up is always good.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
And I guess also a lot of you seen your players,
your big names are also playing and you're playing in France,
aren't I.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Yeah, France and England. We had Matteta who played a
season with the Crusaders and then went to Japan. So
the situation here is we still have amateur rugby except
for Super Rugby Americas, which is a regional competition Argentina.
We have three teams next year. They had two teams
in the last two three years. They play against franchises
(04:02):
from Chile, Paraguay, Brazil, Uruguay and USA, and that's a
middle tier competition. It's a six month competition. The salaries
are not good enough. It would be like a salary
for an NPC player and then they take the jump
(04:22):
and go to France. That would be basically the equation.
So a player that really stands out, he'll make his
coin going overseas and even the development at a professional
club playing twelve months a year is much much bigger
than playing for a franchise in the reason for six
but it is a very good competition and it's putting
(04:42):
players through. He had his first cap the other day.
He came through Super Rugby Americas Molina. Who's going to
try against the All Blacks. He came through Super Rugby
Americas capturing the champion side this year, so it is
producing that next tier of players.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
So interesting stats out of this year's Rugby Championship. Your
team Argentina the only team to yet to receive a
red or a yellow card in the Championship and they've
conceded the fewest penalties I think fifty of any team
in the campaign. In fact, they haven't received a red
or a yellow card across the last twelve test matches.
So discipline, obviously for the Pumas is world class, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
It is, And it was an issue in years gone.
Whenever they were getting any momentum, there was penalty, there
was a yellow card or something that kind of stopped that.
If you remember Tom he was he would get a
yellow card every two games or whatever he was. He was,
really he had an initial with with the discipline and
(05:50):
it wasn't only it was tactical discipline as well. With Verdi,
the new coach, who's who's been one of our greatest players.
He's a member of the International World Rugby's Hall of Fame.
I mean he's he's been there and done that. He
did his apprenticeship as coach and now as head coach.
(06:10):
He's definitely instilling something in the team that is new
and and is positive and and they're believing what he's
what he's telling and asking them to do and it's working.
So discipline, a new fly half, a new coach with
great ideas, it's a it's a lethal combination.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yeah, absolutely so Frankie, can they do it again this
coming Sunday morning? Why in South Africa? I mean, what
do they need to do to get the win? Uh?
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Find out if Zuzi is available and uh, if not,
it's going to be very hard. It's got to be
very hard. Busted the spring Walks. They've already named the
team and uh yeah, it's it's it's an incredible team.
They're playing at home. They rested players. They didn't fly
some some of their players that would be starting on
(07:00):
on on the weekend, they didn't fly them to Argentina
to keep them rested. They're defending world champions. They won't
want to lose at home. And Argentina a still this
humble team that has to take game game by game
by game and they just need to be consistent. They
can't allow themselves to have the situation they had with
(07:22):
the All Backs where they won the first week and
then they went to Eat and Park and it was
a big loss. So if they're competitive, if they can
keep the scores low, that would make a big difference.
And if that happens, then it's INSPI inch point by point.
Anything could happen, but I would my mind sets that
(07:42):
the Springboks cannot lose my heart something different of course.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Yeah, absolutely. Is there much talk to get argent to
the inside into Super Rugby in the future.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Frankie, I'm not really sure. I know this dealing of
South Africa New Zealand playing each other every two years
is something that is not good for us Super Rugby.
I think it's that's a closed door, but I don't know.
I mean that everybody's playing with their cards close to
(08:15):
the tests. It's a poker game, and and it's TV
rights and and the works. I think I think that's
that's a closed door. But hopefully they will retain the
Rugby Championship as it is with at least two games
against each of the opposition, and that will give us
six very good games every every year.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Frankie, thank you for giving up your time and joining
us good luck on Sunday morning, New Zealand time. Thank
you so much, it'll be a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
And thanks for.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Coding Argentinian rugby writer Frankie. I guess it's got a
good scene to hume. How do they beat them? Here?
Susi the tea lady
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