October 8, 2024 • 10 mins
Leading rugby writer and broadcaster Jim Kayes joins the show to talk the 65 Rugby players selected for the All Blacks and All Blacks XV. Also, his picks on the NPC QF's and talk his new book that comes out this coming Monday.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
International rugby coverage on the country. Sport Breakfast is proudly
brought to you by Access Solutions, elevating you and your
business to a higher level. Nine past seven Well, over
the last two days, sixty five of the top New
Zealand rugby players have been named in the All Black
squad for the Northern Tour. The All Black fifteen as
well to take on Munster and Georgia was named yesterday,
(00:22):
joining us on the show This Morning to talk the squads.
Leading rugby writer and broadcast to Jim Kay's Morning Jim.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
And Morning BK. When you say that number, I almost
tackled out. I mean, it's just really truly you all
you'd be looking siders if you didn't make these squads.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
I was thinking the same thing. I mean, is there
anybody left to play quarterfinals at NPC this week?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Are around? They are around for those games and there
is or there are one or two I mean like
Brandon and they also the loose for from the Hurricanes
and I would have liked to have seen him in here.
But you know, pretty much everyone whose inform has been
has been. There's a lot of them. There's a lot
of them.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
First up, well, let's look at the All Rex squad
from Monday. Would you have liked to see more NBC
players get rewarded for their play in the current season
in that squad.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
I think it's really hard in the modern game to
compare NBC to test rugby. You know, Sam Kine when
he came back, he said, you know what training he
had done beforehand that first game and he only got
I think it was twenty minutes or so off to bed.
He felt like he'd been run over by a track.
So playing well in the NBC, which we all know
(01:45):
sadly's not the competition at once was. I don't think
that's a really good guy for pushing your way into
the orblex ahead of established people. And you know, I
know there's been a lot of talk around samkin and
TJ Pinvada as to whether they should be in the squad,
while I've got a really simple answer is that are
the All Blacks meant to be the best rugby players
(02:08):
in New Zealand. If they are, and those who are
judged to be the best rugby players in New Zealand,
then go for it. The All Blacks are not, and
never have been, a development team. No in another team
is a development. Then that's the All Blacks fifteen. So
I've got no problem whatsoever with them being there. Their
judge to be the best in their positions to go away.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
And the cool thing about having those two there they
bring a lot of experience for maybe they're not so
experienced players that they can pass on to them too,
can't they?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Oh what is Wallace a Titi learning from from rubbing
shoulders of those two guys, in a particular Sam Cane,
you know it's it's invaluable for a young fellow like him.
I would admit I would have liked to have seen
I'm a big fan of Peter Larkeye and if he
had made it into that All Black squad somehow and
was going to learn off someone like Sam Cane, then
(02:56):
that would have been fantastic. But you know, as much
as I say, Beka, who would I have dropped out
from that squad? You know? That's that's the thing. I mean,
e's a blackout is playing while Sam Kay and Santa Pine.
If you now want to see more of him, like
to see him get more games. Luke Jacobson do Talta papality,
Ardie Savier Wallaser tity. So it's all very well me saying, oh,
I would have liked to see this guy and there
(03:17):
that guy there, But I don't actually have an answer
for you as to who I would have dropped out
of the squad to make room for that person. So
it's a it's a very settled squad, isn't only the
one change and that's a half back with cap Roygott
comes back.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah, absolutely, Scott Robertson, you spent a bit of time
with him on that documentary that you did. How how
have you graded his first year in charge?
Speaker 2 (03:42):
If if I look at the results, I should not
have lost to Argentina at home. So that's I think
a glaring miss for Scott Robinson and for the All Blacks.
The two tests in South Africa, well, if we look
at it in a superficial way, losing to South Africa
by what was it for and points in South Africa,
no disgrace, but they probably should have labded that first one.
(04:05):
And I think also we all know they haven't played
well in the last twenty minutes of key test matches
and that's got to be down to environment coaching and
all of that sort of thing. And equally I kind
of thought, and again I don't know how to put
this into the right words, but I thought there might
have been more of a stamp of Scott Robinson raisor
(04:26):
Robertson on the squad, and I haven't seen that it
since the more of a continuation of what was already
in place. So maybe he hasn't yet had the confidence
to already make it his, if that makes sense. So
he's a very different individual to any other person we've
had coaching in All Blacks, and I just haven't quite
seen that come through in the All Blacks yet. So
(04:50):
I'd like to see more of Scott Robinson's influence on
this team, and I don't think we've quite seen that yet.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
When you sat down with him for that documentary, what
did you learn about him? Did you learn anything new?
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Yeah? I did? Well, did I learn and knew?
Speaker 1 (05:07):
It?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Certainly reinforced to me that he's a coach who values
connections and his interactions with the players, And I think
because of that, maybe there's a question mark over whether
he's got enough coaches or the right coaches and has
set up who cover off the technical side of things.
(05:28):
That makes sense, you know, So he's more a manager
of people, and maybe he needs a Wayne Smith in there,
who's just a brilliant coach. Now, look, a couple of
these guys might come through and show that they do
have it in their makeup, but at the moment, I
think we're missing someone of that coaching elite. You know
that that Wayne Smith and Steve Hanson was a damn
(05:49):
good coach too, or maybe Robertsons all that void, but
I think he's more the manager of the people. So
that that was certainly something that came through for me
when I sat down them yesterday.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
The All Break fifteen was named by well coach Clayton McMillan.
How much of the squad do you think was picked
by by don't by Clayton McMillan, or do you think
the all Black selectors would have given them a bit
of a nudge as well?
Speaker 2 (06:13):
I think without question they were given him more of
a nudge that you know, Yeah, well, see he's in
the press release. It was jointly selected by the Backs fifteen,
So you know, I think Razor and his selectors would
have had a huge saying these are obviously the guys
that they want to have a look at. The guys
who they see has been you know, the next Cavs
off the off the rank, you're Ecklund from from bar
(06:37):
Pani and they're good to see that. Ye. So you
know there's there's ten I think it is ten capped
All Black than that squad. Shows we've got a little
bit of dip and I like the fact that there
will be a little bit of interchange between the two squads.
Certainly for the first game against Japan. Personally, I think
they could have reduced the number of will backs they
were taken away and used more of this fifteen yes,
(07:00):
and just had a little bit more of an interchange
between them. But really that's not happening. So yeah, it's
a lot of places, a couple of interesting ones in there.
B K Shawn Stevenson, Chiefs in North Harbor. Yeah, you know,
we all thought he was going to be an established
All Black. We all thought he had a big future
ahead of him. Same with Money Narawa. So those two
have certainly some big points to prove when they go
(07:23):
away with the saw Blacks squad and Hoskins Tradu can
play for New Zealand, can play for Fiji, or could
play for England again. You know, seemed to be on
the fast track to being a wonderful All Black and
has really fallen off it with this coaching group. I
don't know whether this stops him from them playing for
(07:43):
those other teams if he wanted to. I don't know
whether it sort of puts him in the eligibility category
at all. But if yeah, interesting him he's got He's
got a lot to prove as well. So there's a
couple of people in this team with a lot to prove.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
What's Ricky Rica Telly done to upset the selectors? I
would have thought he was he was, he would have
been a shoe in.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Yeah, I agree with you, totally agree with you there
not not sure. I don't know the answer to that,
but yeah, I he's been a grete forman and equally
mate you know Sidle Christy who's been playing for for
ten but I think he's been in fantastic form. If
they were going to not take Ja away, then surely
Finlay Christy would have been in that All Black squad.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Yeah, I'm just changing subject. You're releasing a book on
Monday called Game Changes All Blacks? Who Who Changed the
Game has been a series on Sky hasn't it.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yes, it has been very lucky to do the double
dip to produce a series for Sky that's running the
Breakdown and want just to write a book about it
for Don Hopen his publishing company. So yeah, really tough mate.
It's been really really interesting, And even selecting the fifteen
was sort of interesting because we decided to go only
in the modern era because the other one that just
(08:55):
would have get a bit too unwilledly, and it's people
who have had a demonstrable impact on their position on
the way the game had played, or in the case
of one or two, like Karna umanger on kind of
the trajectory of the game because he was first pacifica
Test captain that the All Blacks had. There'd been two
others who had captained the All Blacks and non Test
back Punts and Joe Stanmy, but obviously he kept them
(09:17):
them for a while. So there's a lot of familiar
names in there, Sunny Bill Williams, Jonah Lomu, Christin Cullen,
some fellow called Mccaorn, another one called Carter, So I
got talked into one of them. I didn't initially have
Andrew Mertins in my list, but Jeff Wilson and Justin
(09:38):
Marshall both told me I was wrong and that Mertz
had had a demonstrable impact on the way the game
was played when he was in there and changing it.
I guess he'd come in after Foxy and was that
beautiful running first five with that wonderful pinpoint pass of his.
So they talked me into including him in there. Yeah,
it was. It was a fun project, a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
I bet it was all right. Look forward to that
book coming out very very quickly, Jim. MPC quarter finals
this weekend, quickly, Wellington Counties. Who's going to win that one?
Speaker 2 (10:08):
I'm going to go the home ones, well Income over Counties,
Karanaki over Waikat or the two that I think it
could be potentially closer Bay of Plenty versus Hawks Bay,
the Battle of the Bays bay Plenty at home, but
that could be very very tough. And who on earth
let Canterbury into the playoffs because once that team gets
into the playoffs, yeah, all of a sudden they go
(10:31):
from chumps to champs. So I'm nervous going through so that.
I think that'll be close as well. Tandam without the
shield might have lost the bit of their mojo Canterbury
with a wet sale. Who knows.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Jim, thanks for joining us, mate. Congratulations on the book.
We look forward to reading that Monday. It's our Thank
you so much, Thank.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
You, Beka, I appreciate your time.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Jim Cay is joining us here out of Sky Sport,
leading rugby writer on Gold Sports
International rugby coverage on the country. Sport Breakfast is proudly
brought to you by Access Solutions, elevating you and your
business to a higher level. Nine past seven Well, over
the last two days, sixty five of the top New
Zealand rugby players have been named in the All Black
squad for the Northern Tour. The All Black fifteen as
well to take on Munster and Georgia was named yesterday,
(00:22):
joining us on the show This Morning to talk the squads.
Leading rugby writer and broadcast to Jim Kay's Morning Jim.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
And Morning BK. When you say that number, I almost
tackled out. I mean, it's just really truly you all
you'd be looking siders if you didn't make these squads.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
I was thinking the same thing. I mean, is there
anybody left to play quarterfinals at NPC this week?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Are around? They are around for those games and there
is or there are one or two I mean like
Brandon and they also the loose for from the Hurricanes
and I would have liked to have seen him in here.
But you know, pretty much everyone whose inform has been
has been. There's a lot of them. There's a lot
of them.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
First up, well, let's look at the All Rex squad
from Monday. Would you have liked to see more NBC
players get rewarded for their play in the current season
in that squad.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
I think it's really hard in the modern game to
compare NBC to test rugby. You know, Sam Kine when
he came back, he said, you know what training he
had done beforehand that first game and he only got
I think it was twenty minutes or so off to bed.
He felt like he'd been run over by a track.
So playing well in the NBC, which we all know
(01:45):
sadly's not the competition at once was. I don't think
that's a really good guy for pushing your way into
the orblex ahead of established people. And you know, I
know there's been a lot of talk around samkin and
TJ Pinvada as to whether they should be in the squad,
while I've got a really simple answer is that are
the All Blacks meant to be the best rugby players
(02:08):
in New Zealand. If they are, and those who are
judged to be the best rugby players in New Zealand,
then go for it. The All Blacks are not, and
never have been, a development team. No in another team
is a development. Then that's the All Blacks fifteen. So
I've got no problem whatsoever with them being there. Their
judge to be the best in their positions to go away.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
And the cool thing about having those two there they
bring a lot of experience for maybe they're not so
experienced players that they can pass on to them too,
can't they?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Oh what is Wallace a Titi learning from from rubbing
shoulders of those two guys, in a particular Sam Cane,
you know it's it's invaluable for a young fellow like him.
I would admit I would have liked to have seen
I'm a big fan of Peter Larkeye and if he
had made it into that All Black squad somehow and
was going to learn off someone like Sam Cane, then
(02:56):
that would have been fantastic. But you know, as much
as I say, Beka, who would I have dropped out
from that squad? You know? That's that's the thing. I mean,
e's a blackout is playing while Sam Kay and Santa Pine.
If you now want to see more of him, like
to see him get more games. Luke Jacobson do Talta papality,
Ardie Savier Wallaser tity. So it's all very well me saying, oh,
I would have liked to see this guy and there
(03:17):
that guy there, But I don't actually have an answer
for you as to who I would have dropped out
of the squad to make room for that person. So
it's a it's a very settled squad, isn't only the
one change and that's a half back with cap Roygott
comes back.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah, absolutely, Scott Robertson, you spent a bit of time
with him on that documentary that you did. How how
have you graded his first year in charge?
Speaker 2 (03:42):
If if I look at the results, I should not
have lost to Argentina at home. So that's I think
a glaring miss for Scott Robinson and for the All Blacks.
The two tests in South Africa, well, if we look
at it in a superficial way, losing to South Africa
by what was it for and points in South Africa,
no disgrace, but they probably should have labded that first one.
(04:05):
And I think also we all know they haven't played
well in the last twenty minutes of key test matches
and that's got to be down to environment coaching and
all of that sort of thing. And equally I kind
of thought, and again I don't know how to put
this into the right words, but I thought there might
have been more of a stamp of Scott Robinson raisor
(04:26):
Robertson on the squad, and I haven't seen that it
since the more of a continuation of what was already
in place. So maybe he hasn't yet had the confidence
to already make it his, if that makes sense. So
he's a very different individual to any other person we've
had coaching in All Blacks, and I just haven't quite
seen that come through in the All Blacks yet. So
(04:50):
I'd like to see more of Scott Robinson's influence on
this team, and I don't think we've quite seen that yet.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
When you sat down with him for that documentary, what
did you learn about him? Did you learn anything new?
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Yeah? I did? Well, did I learn and knew?
Speaker 1 (05:07):
It?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Certainly reinforced to me that he's a coach who values
connections and his interactions with the players, And I think
because of that, maybe there's a question mark over whether
he's got enough coaches or the right coaches and has
set up who cover off the technical side of things.
(05:28):
That makes sense, you know, So he's more a manager
of people, and maybe he needs a Wayne Smith in there,
who's just a brilliant coach. Now, look, a couple of
these guys might come through and show that they do
have it in their makeup, but at the moment, I
think we're missing someone of that coaching elite. You know
that that Wayne Smith and Steve Hanson was a damn
(05:49):
good coach too, or maybe Robertsons all that void, but
I think he's more the manager of the people. So
that that was certainly something that came through for me
when I sat down them yesterday.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
The All Break fifteen was named by well coach Clayton McMillan.
How much of the squad do you think was picked
by by don't by Clayton McMillan, or do you think
the all Black selectors would have given them a bit
of a nudge as well?
Speaker 2 (06:13):
I think without question they were given him more of
a nudge that you know, Yeah, well, see he's in
the press release. It was jointly selected by the Backs fifteen,
So you know, I think Razor and his selectors would
have had a huge saying these are obviously the guys
that they want to have a look at. The guys
who they see has been you know, the next Cavs
off the off the rank, you're Ecklund from from bar
(06:37):
Pani and they're good to see that. Ye. So you
know there's there's ten I think it is ten capped
All Black than that squad. Shows we've got a little
bit of dip and I like the fact that there
will be a little bit of interchange between the two squads.
Certainly for the first game against Japan. Personally, I think
they could have reduced the number of will backs they
were taken away and used more of this fifteen yes,
(07:00):
and just had a little bit more of an interchange
between them. But really that's not happening. So yeah, it's
a lot of places, a couple of interesting ones in there.
B K Shawn Stevenson, Chiefs in North Harbor. Yeah, you know,
we all thought he was going to be an established
All Black. We all thought he had a big future
ahead of him. Same with Money Narawa. So those two
have certainly some big points to prove when they go
(07:23):
away with the saw Blacks squad and Hoskins Tradu can
play for New Zealand, can play for Fiji, or could
play for England again. You know, seemed to be on
the fast track to being a wonderful All Black and
has really fallen off it with this coaching group. I
don't know whether this stops him from them playing for
(07:43):
those other teams if he wanted to. I don't know
whether it sort of puts him in the eligibility category
at all. But if yeah, interesting him he's got He's
got a lot to prove as well. So there's a
couple of people in this team with a lot to prove.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
What's Ricky Rica Telly done to upset the selectors? I
would have thought he was he was, he would have
been a shoe in.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Yeah, I agree with you, totally agree with you there
not not sure. I don't know the answer to that,
but yeah, I he's been a grete forman and equally
mate you know Sidle Christy who's been playing for for
ten but I think he's been in fantastic form. If
they were going to not take Ja away, then surely
Finlay Christy would have been in that All Black squad.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Yeah, I'm just changing subject. You're releasing a book on
Monday called Game Changes All Blacks? Who Who Changed the
Game has been a series on Sky hasn't it.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yes, it has been very lucky to do the double
dip to produce a series for Sky that's running the
Breakdown and want just to write a book about it
for Don Hopen his publishing company. So yeah, really tough mate.
It's been really really interesting, And even selecting the fifteen
was sort of interesting because we decided to go only
in the modern era because the other one that just
(08:55):
would have get a bit too unwilledly, and it's people
who have had a demonstrable impact on their position on
the way the game had played, or in the case
of one or two, like Karna umanger on kind of
the trajectory of the game because he was first pacifica
Test captain that the All Blacks had. There'd been two
others who had captained the All Blacks and non Test
back Punts and Joe Stanmy, but obviously he kept them
(09:17):
them for a while. So there's a lot of familiar
names in there, Sunny Bill Williams, Jonah Lomu, Christin Cullen,
some fellow called Mccaorn, another one called Carter, So I
got talked into one of them. I didn't initially have
Andrew Mertins in my list, but Jeff Wilson and Justin
(09:38):
Marshall both told me I was wrong and that Mertz
had had a demonstrable impact on the way the game
was played when he was in there and changing it.
I guess he'd come in after Foxy and was that
beautiful running first five with that wonderful pinpoint pass of his.
So they talked me into including him in there. Yeah,
it was. It was a fun project, a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
I bet it was all right. Look forward to that
book coming out very very quickly, Jim. MPC quarter finals
this weekend, quickly, Wellington Counties. Who's going to win that one?
Speaker 2 (10:08):
I'm going to go the home ones, well Income over Counties,
Karanaki over Waikat or the two that I think it
could be potentially closer Bay of Plenty versus Hawks Bay,
the Battle of the Bays bay Plenty at home, but
that could be very very tough. And who on earth
let Canterbury into the playoffs because once that team gets
into the playoffs, yeah, all of a sudden they go
(10:31):
from chumps to champs. So I'm nervous going through so that.
I think that'll be close as well. Tandam without the
shield might have lost the bit of their mojo Canterbury
with a wet sale. Who knows.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Jim, thanks for joining us, mate. Congratulations on the book.
We look forward to reading that Monday. It's our Thank
you so much, Thank.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
You, Beka, I appreciate your time.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Jim Cay is joining us here out of Sky Sport,
leading rugby writer on Gold Sports
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