September 8, 2025 • 27 mins
Hour 2- Dr. Wendy is talking to Dr. Tracy Dalgleish about her new book, You, Your Husband, and His Mother which you can pre-order today!! It's all on KFIAM-640!
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI
AM six forty.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy Walls Show on KFI
AM six forty, live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. This
is the time of the show where I am answering
your relationship questions, both with the wisdom I've gained from
my PhD in clinical psychology and the wisdom I've gained
from a whole lot of life experience.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Here we go.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
If you have a question, send it to my Instagram
account and a DM at Doctor Wendy Walsh. All Right,
Dear Doctor Wendy, my conflict style doesn't match my girlfriend's style.
I tend to shut down while my girlfriend wants to
push to talk things out. It creates more tension. How
(00:48):
do you bridge that gap when feeling like I'm the
one who always has to change? Well, both of you
have to change a little bit. Okay, if you want
to be able to have true emotional intimacy, I think
you need to move from shutting down to being able
(01:08):
to say I want to talk about this, but I
don't have the words for it. Practice that one. I
want to talk about this, but I don't have the
words for it, or I want to talk about this,
but I'm feeling really pressured by you and it's hard
for me. Can you wait, can you support me? Can
(01:33):
we go slowly on this that's opening up without getting
into the details. Now, what she's got to do is
listen to your words and scale things back. I look,
I remember I was herd by the way. I had
like an anxious, ambivalent attachment style, and I always picked
avoid in people. And I literally felt like I was
(01:54):
pounding on their chests like hey, open up, tell me
who's in there, what's happening. We need to talk about this,
and they're like running out of the room. Right. It
never works if you're on the other end of it
trying to get somebody to be emotional, it never works. Now,
it may be, like it was in my case with
many of those men, just a bad match you shouldn't
be together. Or it may be an opportunity to learn
(02:18):
how to love, an opportunity to become closer through understanding
each other's different ways of communication. If you've been together
a long time or long enough that you know you
want to be there for the long haul. I would
go see a couple's therapists and try to work on this.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
All right.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Uh, dear doctor Wendy, how can you ever fully heal
from something in a relationship that hurt you even if
you've forgiven it. I've said I'm over it, but something
about that dynamic still feels off. Am I lying to myself?
Or is that normal? All right? So what I'm trying
to figure out here? Are you still in the relationship?
(02:59):
I need more information? Okay, let's assume you're still in
the in the relationship, you're working hard to forgive this
person for something they did. Let's just imagine it was cheating. Okay,
we'll go there. You can't forgive and forget. You can't
put it water under the bridge and just say I'm
over it. That other person has to earn your trust back. Now.
(03:24):
You can't pressure them to do it, but you can
explain your feelings. So let's say, for instance, let's say
it was a cheating thing. And let's say you had
location this person's location on your phone, and because of
tech problems like happens with my husband and I, it
got disconnected somehow. So you call them and you say, hey,
(03:45):
can you turn on your location for me. Remember, I'm
really vulnerable because of what happened, and I'm working hard
to build the trust we had before. See that's what
you say, right. You don't ever really get over it,
but time will heal if the two of you can
(04:05):
talk constructively about it. It always takes two to tango
in every situation, so if both of you can talk
about maybe what your peace was, that can help you
in the road to healing. I love this question, Dear
doctor Wendy. How do you assert your boundaries with someone
(04:26):
who you love without damaging the relationship. This is the
question I get from people with very few boundaries. I
would word it another way, why do you have no
boundaries because you're afraid of damaging the relationship?
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Right?
Speaker 2 (04:41):
And so that fear, the fear of losing the relationship,
the fear of hurting the relationship, is much greater than
your need to be respected or your need to have
your needs met. Right. And I think that answer has
to do with building self esteem. Once you realize how
(05:05):
valuable you are, how smart, beautiful, kind, whatever it may be,
and you know deep inside, then it will be so
much easier to ask for your needs to be met,
and you won't be worrying about quote unquote damaging the
relationship or losing the relationship, because you know you deserve
to have your needs met.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Right.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
I think you can do this, little by little. Um. Oh,
here's a great one, Dear doctor Wendy. Can two people
love each other but just not be compatible in how
they live, grow, or communicate. It's a painful thought, But
maybe love isn't always enough. You're right, love is not enough.
(05:47):
First of all, let's talk about what love is. There's
lots of kinds of love, lots of definitions of love,
lots of feelings of love. The beginning of a relationship,
this filled with lots of passion is lust. It's not
even love. Love is the verb to give. Love is
an intellectual decision after the neuro hormones die down. Love
(06:08):
is a time for you to say, I'm going to
sacrifice for this person because this person is so important
to me. This person's happiness makes me happy. That's what
love is. Right now, If you're not compatible and how
you communicate and how you live, I don't know what
that means. What you eat, how you decorate, I don't know,
(06:29):
or how you grow? Then why are you together? Because
you had hot sex at the beginning. I don't know.
Maybe maybe, but love is never enough unless it's the
true definition of love, which is the verb to give,
choosing to put somebody else's needs above your own, and
(06:53):
they reciprocate that they do the same thing. All right,
I think we have time for one more, doctor, Wendy.
Is needing alone time or space a red flag or
just human? Sometimes I worry that pulling away is sending
the wrong message, even though I do need to recharge.
How do you ask for space lovingly? Okay, needing private time,
(07:16):
alone time, space isn't a red flag that there's something
wrong with you, that you don't love the person, that
the relationship isn't healthy, none of that, Okay. Some people
are more introverts, and introverts doesn't necessarily mean quiet. Some
people are very talkative, and there's still technically an introvert.
And here's why. It's about where you get your energy.
(07:38):
So I am actually a little bit of both. I'm
an extrovert. If I go out to a party, I
come home and I want to stay up all night
and talk about that party. I had so much fun
because other people's energy ignites my energy. But there are
other times where I just get exhausted and I need
time alone, and it is the time alone that gives
me energy. How do you ask for it lovingly? It's
(08:02):
like this. You start with and by my communication sandwich
a layer of love, then something hard to chew on,
back it up with a layer of love. So it
goes like this. I love spending time with you. I
have so much fun. I realize, though, that I have
a certain need to be alone so that I can
be better for you when I'm with you. I don't
(08:24):
want you to feel insecure about this, but sometimes I
just need a few hours or days by myself, and
that way I can come back to you as a
better partner and a happier person, because that's what you deserve.
See do you here that communication sandwich layer of love
follow by something a little harder to chew on, backed
(08:46):
up with another layer of love. I think you can
do this. You can do this, You really can. Hey,
when we come back, do you have mother in law problems? Surprise, surprise,
you're probably a woman and the mother in law is
the mother of the groom. I have a special guest
coming up next who actually wrote a book on this
(09:07):
there's six types of mother in laws out there. Luckily
I have the best one. Let's meet her when we
come back. You're listening to the Doctor Wendy Wall Show
on KFI AM six forty. We're live everywhere on the
iHeartRadio app. Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy Wall Show
on KFI AM six forty, Live everywhere on the iHeartRadio App.
You know, I get people sending me DMS and emails
(09:31):
and calling into this show with this common question, and
it often has to do with a meddling mother in law.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Da da da da.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Often it has to do with her being critical of
the mom. There's the mom and the mother in law. Right,
the mother in law being critical of her son's wife
and her parenting ability and how she should deal with this,
et cetera. I thought I would bring on an expert,
a clinical psychologist who has a lot to say about this,
(10:05):
Doctor Tracy dog Leish. Did I say, right, dog Leish?
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Uh? Dogli's We're close.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
We're close as a new book coming out in November
called you your Husband and his Mother. Oh my goodness,
we have to get into it. Okay, So, first of all,
why did you decide to write a book about mother
in law's invading marriages.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Yes, this was one of the most common struggles showing
up in my therapy room, and we know it's one
of the top reasons couple's divorce is due to conflicts
around in laws. And what's really interesting about this is
that although conflict can show up between a son in
law and his mother in law, research actually shows and
(10:48):
the same with my clinical experience, is that most challenges
show up between the daughter in law and the mother
in law.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
I can see why because her first love is that
little book, and this woman is stealing him from her.
You know, when I was young and I was dating,
I came up with this theory that the worst guy
to ever date is an only child of a single
mother because he already had a wife. Because these single moms,
(11:19):
you know, they romanticize the relationship with their son and
they have a hard time. You know, they feel guilty
falling in love even because they'd be disconnecting from their
mom in some way. I should share doctor Tracy that
I got married a year ago and I was not
prepared for how much I would fall in love with
(11:41):
my mother in law. I feel my mother died. My
mother died of breast cancer when I was young, and
to suddenly have a mother figure that I can call
any time of the day with great advice is amazing.
And in fact, when we had our first fight that
was a pretty big one, I called her the next day,
did you know what your son said? And she reeledly
(12:01):
been by the time I got home, and he's sixty
five years old, he came home and said, oh, Mom
called me. I'm really sorry she stuck my side.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
In that rate there. Tell me that here the woman
who wants to support and honor your WII, which is
so important for couples because you are trying to connect,
You're trying to build in different family members, and that
sense of belonging and respect that she showed you is
exactly what we need from law.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
And our family. On my side, our family system is
we just collect new members. We don't get rid of
anybody unless they go in the grave. We just keep
getting new ones. So let's talk a little bit. You
say the biggest problem is between the mother in law,
the mother of the groom and the bride. What are
the biggest conflicts over and why?
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Yes, the biggest conflicts tend to show up around time
with family, around how parenting is communicated, how the new
wave of parent today is showing up, and how it
looks very different. There's a lot of tension that tends
to show up between how women today are doing things
in their families, how they're parenting, how they're managing the
(13:18):
mental load. And so then here is this sense of
tension from another woman, and she's wondering, if you're doing
it differently, doesn't mean that I did it wrong.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
And then here so basically she's basically when she's criticizing
the daughter in law's parenting, she's really saying, oh gosh,
if she got it right, then I must have made
some big mistakes. And she doesn't want to face.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
That, which really leads into their insecurity. And if a
mother only defines herself through her role as mother to son,
it's going to really threaten whether she's going to maintain
a role in this new family. And how wonderful it
is that her son has married and is starting his
own chosen family. But for many mothers, they do go
(14:04):
into that place of insecurity. What role will I play here?
Am I going to still be included in holidays? Will
I lose my son? To his in law family, and
that stirs up a lot of feelings, especially when husband
and wife can't communicate and get on the same page
and communicate their needs and desires for navigating both sides
(14:25):
of their family.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Well, I would say that the husband probably feels torn
between his mother and his wife. Should the onus be
on him to set some boundaries?
Speaker 3 (14:41):
My response to that is usually it depends. It depends
on the type of mother in law you have, and Wendy,
in my book, I outline six different types of mothers
in law so that readers will learn who are they
dealing with, not as a diagnosis, but as a what's
the behavior that shows up here? So I know how
I can communicate and not get stuck in that.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
So why don't we go through the six of them
and you tell me with each one whether the sun
should put the foot down in this one or not?
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Absolutely? Okay.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
So the first one you say is the martyr? What's
the mother in law martyr?
Speaker 3 (15:17):
The mother in law martyr she gives with guilt attached
to it. She'll say something like, after all I've done
for you, or she'll say yes to looking after the kids.
But then she'll tell other people that she's so exhausted,
and the martyrs difficult because as a daughter in law,
you want to make sure you don't do things out
of guilt, so you do want to have your boundaries.
(15:39):
But if the martyr isn't able to hear your boundaries,
then that would be a good spot for your husband
to step in and communicate those boundaries. And when I
say communication, I also go back to that we language,
because when you go to any mother and you say, well, hey,
my partner doesn't want to be here for Christmas, immediately
you've made her the escapegoat.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Right, So you can say something like, if she's the martyr,
you can say, we really appreciate that you babysit, but
we can see that it makes you tired, so we'd
like to find a way where you can do it
less often or for less periods of time so you're
not so exhausted. Would that make sense?
Speaker 3 (16:18):
That was absolutely And sometimes it's also just about acknowledging hmm,
you're feeling tired right now, or really letting her know
that she is important to you. But it doesn't mean
that you have to say yes to all of her requests.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Right all right? The second kind of mother in law,
you say, is the victim. She's only a side step
away from the martyr. The victim tell me about her.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
The victim is someone who sees life as happening to her,
and she'll say things like why does this always happen
to me? And the tricky piece with a victim mother
in law is that it pulls everybody else to be
a rescuer. And so for many couples, I see son
leaving his family and going off to look after mom.
(17:05):
Mom calls and says, the dishwasher's broken, and so he's
running over right away. Or there's an argument between her
and husband, her and dad, and so her son's running
over to rescue this.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
And so how do we stop this?
Speaker 3 (17:19):
This one is recognizing that your mother does have agency,
and that it's not about having to continuously point out
don't play the victim, but instead giving that responsibility back
to her and saying, you know, I trust that you'll
be able to figure that.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Out right, putting it on her. I wish I could
help you, but I know you'll be able to figure
it out. Exactly, fix your own dishwasher. You know, there's
this app called task Rabbit you can have a guy
come over, all right, so we have to go to break.
When we come back, I want to talk about the
other four kinds of monster in law, I mean mother
(17:54):
in law's. And then also I want to get your
prediction on what might happen with Taylor Swift and Travis
Kelsey's moms because they're both very involved in this relationship.
My guest is doctor Tracy doll g Leish. How'd I
do it? Doll Gleiche, I got the l in there,
and she is a clinical psychologist. Her book that's coming
(18:15):
out and you can pre order it now, is You
Your Husband and His Mother. You're listening to the Doctor
Wendy Wall Show on KFI AM six forty We're live
everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI
AM six forty.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy Walls six forty five
everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. My guest is clinical psychologist
doctor Tracy Dalgleish, and her new book coming out is
called You Your Husband and His Mother. Okay, doctor Tracy,
we've been talking about the different kinds of mother in law.
You want to know some little side thing. My husband
(18:53):
is a film producer. Do you remember that Jalo movie
years ago called Monster in Law with Jane Fonda. He
produced that. So there you go, we have the film poster.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
What a beautiful representation of the trope of in law law.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
All right, so you talked about mother in laws who
were martyrs and victims. Oh what about the blamers? What
are blamers?
Speaker 3 (19:23):
The blamer mother in law scapegoats the daughter in law.
She says things like, we never had these problems before you.
And this is so tricky because it's like wanting to
externalize through criticism and blame and to put the problems
on someone else. And because who is the newest person
who maybe isn't being brought to feel like an insider.
(19:45):
That's the daughter in law.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
And so in this case, do you need your husband
to step in and set up some boundaries.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
This is a great situation where you really need your
husband to step in and say this is not because
of her. This is the decision we are making. And
I remind people as well that these issues existed long
before the daughter in law joined the family, but the
family might not have been able to label these problems
because of the things her husband was doing at the
(20:15):
time to deal with the pattern.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Interesting, all right. You also mentioned the controller, the controlling
mother in law. What does she do?
Speaker 3 (20:24):
She believes that she knows best. She'll say things like
this is how we do it in our family. She's
filled with advice she comes with Maybe it feels like
it's coming from a good place, but it feels a
bit like there's criticism in there around your parenting choices,
around the choices of where you're sending the kids for school,
or what the holidays are going to look like. And
here I remind daughters in law that know what your
(20:46):
boundaries are ahead of time, and this is more important
than debating with your mother in law.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Right, So you don't get into it with them. You
just take some advice and ignore other that that's what
I do. I ignore some of the advice and oh yeah,
that's a good point, and I don't do it right.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
We call this the self boundary. It's not something that
you have to argue with and get into more.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
The distance, sir, a mother in law who's actually not
involved with the grandkids. I've had people call the show
and say they feel so sad they thought their kids
would have grandparents and they're off in Florida and they
barely call or see what I mean. You can't make
somebody get involved.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Can you?
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Yeah? And I think this is where grief comes up,
because again, women mary not to hope one day they
won't have more family around them, but in hope that
someone will be part of them. And this type of
mother in law really came from the women I worked with,
who would say, my mother in law lives twenty minutes
down the street and I barely see her. She doesn't
come over, she doesn't see the kids, and it can
(21:48):
be really difficult. And I think what's important for families
to recognize is that there's this avoidance of conflict. It's
a distance, it's a withdrawn type person and she'll say
things like this is just who I am, or will
keep herself busy. But daughters in law here need to
remember this isn't personal and it's not about their worth
(22:10):
or loveability.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
So the work should be in ourselves. If this happens,
it's like it's about our own self esteem, because we
can't make somebody be a good grandparent if they don't
want to.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Be right, Absolutely, and you can continue to invite them
as long as it's not exhausting you and it might change,
but it might not. And we don't get to control
somebody else.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Yeah, that's very important.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Now.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
The last one I think is a good one. Right
the supporter tell me about the father in law who's
a supporter.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Yeah, she says, how can I care for you? And
many daughters in law will say this is the one
that I've hit the jackpod. There's this sense of mutuality
and respect and care. But I still remind people that
you need to work on healthy communication strategies and here
you likely feel safe and here to say to your
(23:01):
mother in law, Hey, Christmas needs to look different this year.
Can we talk about what we're going to have this year?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Yeah? We are starting to head into holiday season now,
so do you have some advice if people are dealing
with any of these mother in laws over the holidays.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Start these conversations now and making sure you and your
partner are on the same page. And this doesn't mean
that you are abandoning extended family. It's more about prioritizing
the needs of you and your partner. That's your chosen
family has to come first, and then you get to
bring in others along the way.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
And I know what of my viewers is going to say,
because she's called into the show and ask me this,
What about if my husband won't put boundaries on his
mother and what if he chooses her over me all
the time? What do I do?
Speaker 3 (23:48):
The question is are you willing to accept this? Because
he's saying he's not going to change? So are you
willing to accept that he will put his mother above you?
And if that's the case and you're going to accept it,
how do you then start carving out ways for yourself
to maybe build some kind of relationship with her. Or
do you then focus on the good parts of your
(24:11):
relationship and nurture that and then you let him go
and do that part in his life.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
I love that you said that because that's one of
my favorite things. You know, no partner is perfect, no
relationship is perfect. And if we only focus on the negative, boy,
that garden will grow. But if we focus, if we
take our time, and you can literally take your mind
and bend it and go yeah, but you know, she's
really nice when she does this, and I really like
(24:36):
when they're like this, and you can literally make your
relationship great in your own mind, which I love all right.
So I fan girled a while back on the show
about Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey's I watched the two
hours of them on the Brothers podcast, and I was
shocked that I liked them so much. Shocked because two
(24:57):
years ago, apparently I said this has never gonna last,
and now look here we are. But their parents, they
both have very close families, and the families know each other.
I always say that a good relationship is a bridge
between tribes. Do you see any potential for chaos here
with mother in laws?
Speaker 3 (25:16):
I don't see any of those potentials. I was thinking
about the image this shot of where Donna grabs Taylor
and takes her down on the field, and right there
it's this belonging, it's this you are one of us,
You're coming down with us, and right there is this
symbol of you're part of our family already. And just
(25:38):
knowing how much both of these nurture their children and
they show up for them, I just feel so beyond
excited for how it's going to go forward with them.
But you know, I think, like all couples, they're going
to have to have conversations like who are we with
on Christmas, and who are we going to visit for Thanksgiving?
And who's doing who's making what sour dough this year?
(26:00):
A document?
Speaker 2 (26:01):
And when a baby comes, you know, who's going to
get to Which grandparents are we visiting for this or
are they going to pull it together all the time.
I mean I actually did a little rundown to figure
out how many houses they have. They have a lot
of houses, okay in a lot of places that are
well staffed, so they're going to have support that other
families might not have. But my heart was really warmed
(26:23):
when I did watch that podcast that you know they
all they both have friends and still close friends from childhood,
so they have good, strong roots, which is it's fun
to watch.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
They really do. Yeah, it's solid and just hearing how
they both talk about prioritizing each other and not letting
in the outside world. That's the weakness that we look
for and a strong relationships super important.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Well, I wish you well with your book. People can
pre order it now. The book is called You Your
Husband and his Mother. A clinical psychologist and author, Doctor
Tracy Dauglish, Thank you so much for being with us.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Thank you so much, Doctor Wendy and.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
That brings the Doctor Wendy Wall Show to a close.
It is always my pleasure to be with you every
Sunday evening. If you'd like to follow me on my
social media you may The handle is at doctor Wendy Walsh.
But I'm always here for you on KFI on Sundays.
You've been listening to the Doctor Wendy Walls Show on
KFI AM six forty live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.
(27:27):
You've been listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh. You can always
hear us live on KFI AM six forty from seven
to nine pm on Sunday and anytime on demand on
the iHeartRadio app
You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI
AM six forty.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy Walls Show on KFI
AM six forty, live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. This
is the time of the show where I am answering
your relationship questions, both with the wisdom I've gained from
my PhD in clinical psychology and the wisdom I've gained
from a whole lot of life experience.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Here we go.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
If you have a question, send it to my Instagram
account and a DM at Doctor Wendy Walsh. All Right,
Dear Doctor Wendy, my conflict style doesn't match my girlfriend's style.
I tend to shut down while my girlfriend wants to
push to talk things out. It creates more tension. How
(00:48):
do you bridge that gap when feeling like I'm the
one who always has to change? Well, both of you
have to change a little bit. Okay, if you want
to be able to have true emotional intimacy, I think
you need to move from shutting down to being able
(01:08):
to say I want to talk about this, but I
don't have the words for it. Practice that one. I
want to talk about this, but I don't have the
words for it, or I want to talk about this,
but I'm feeling really pressured by you and it's hard
for me. Can you wait, can you support me? Can
(01:33):
we go slowly on this that's opening up without getting
into the details. Now, what she's got to do is
listen to your words and scale things back. I look,
I remember I was herd by the way. I had
like an anxious, ambivalent attachment style, and I always picked
avoid in people. And I literally felt like I was
(01:54):
pounding on their chests like hey, open up, tell me
who's in there, what's happening. We need to talk about this,
and they're like running out of the room. Right. It
never works if you're on the other end of it
trying to get somebody to be emotional, it never works. Now,
it may be, like it was in my case with
many of those men, just a bad match you shouldn't
be together. Or it may be an opportunity to learn
(02:18):
how to love, an opportunity to become closer through understanding
each other's different ways of communication. If you've been together
a long time or long enough that you know you
want to be there for the long haul. I would
go see a couple's therapists and try to work on this.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
All right.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Uh, dear doctor Wendy, how can you ever fully heal
from something in a relationship that hurt you even if
you've forgiven it. I've said I'm over it, but something
about that dynamic still feels off. Am I lying to myself?
Or is that normal? All right? So what I'm trying
to figure out here? Are you still in the relationship?
(02:59):
I need more information? Okay, let's assume you're still in
the in the relationship, you're working hard to forgive this
person for something they did. Let's just imagine it was cheating. Okay,
we'll go there. You can't forgive and forget. You can't
put it water under the bridge and just say I'm
over it. That other person has to earn your trust back. Now.
(03:24):
You can't pressure them to do it, but you can
explain your feelings. So let's say, for instance, let's say
it was a cheating thing. And let's say you had
location this person's location on your phone, and because of
tech problems like happens with my husband and I, it
got disconnected somehow. So you call them and you say, hey,
(03:45):
can you turn on your location for me. Remember, I'm
really vulnerable because of what happened, and I'm working hard
to build the trust we had before. See that's what
you say, right. You don't ever really get over it,
but time will heal if the two of you can
(04:05):
talk constructively about it. It always takes two to tango
in every situation, so if both of you can talk
about maybe what your peace was, that can help you
in the road to healing. I love this question, Dear
doctor Wendy. How do you assert your boundaries with someone
(04:26):
who you love without damaging the relationship. This is the
question I get from people with very few boundaries. I
would word it another way, why do you have no
boundaries because you're afraid of damaging the relationship?
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Right?
Speaker 2 (04:41):
And so that fear, the fear of losing the relationship,
the fear of hurting the relationship, is much greater than
your need to be respected or your need to have
your needs met. Right. And I think that answer has
to do with building self esteem. Once you realize how
(05:05):
valuable you are, how smart, beautiful, kind, whatever it may be,
and you know deep inside, then it will be so
much easier to ask for your needs to be met,
and you won't be worrying about quote unquote damaging the
relationship or losing the relationship, because you know you deserve
to have your needs met.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Right.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
I think you can do this, little by little. Um. Oh,
here's a great one, Dear doctor Wendy. Can two people
love each other but just not be compatible in how
they live, grow, or communicate. It's a painful thought, But
maybe love isn't always enough. You're right, love is not enough.
(05:47):
First of all, let's talk about what love is. There's
lots of kinds of love, lots of definitions of love,
lots of feelings of love. The beginning of a relationship,
this filled with lots of passion is lust. It's not
even love. Love is the verb to give. Love is
an intellectual decision after the neuro hormones die down. Love
(06:08):
is a time for you to say, I'm going to
sacrifice for this person because this person is so important
to me. This person's happiness makes me happy. That's what
love is. Right now, If you're not compatible and how
you communicate and how you live, I don't know what
that means. What you eat, how you decorate, I don't know,
(06:29):
or how you grow? Then why are you together? Because
you had hot sex at the beginning. I don't know.
Maybe maybe, but love is never enough unless it's the
true definition of love, which is the verb to give,
choosing to put somebody else's needs above your own, and
(06:53):
they reciprocate that they do the same thing. All right,
I think we have time for one more, doctor, Wendy.
Is needing alone time or space a red flag or
just human? Sometimes I worry that pulling away is sending
the wrong message, even though I do need to recharge.
How do you ask for space lovingly? Okay, needing private time,
(07:16):
alone time, space isn't a red flag that there's something
wrong with you, that you don't love the person, that
the relationship isn't healthy, none of that, Okay. Some people
are more introverts, and introverts doesn't necessarily mean quiet. Some
people are very talkative, and there's still technically an introvert.
And here's why. It's about where you get your energy.
(07:38):
So I am actually a little bit of both. I'm
an extrovert. If I go out to a party, I
come home and I want to stay up all night
and talk about that party. I had so much fun
because other people's energy ignites my energy. But there are
other times where I just get exhausted and I need
time alone, and it is the time alone that gives
me energy. How do you ask for it lovingly? It's
(08:02):
like this. You start with and by my communication sandwich
a layer of love, then something hard to chew on,
back it up with a layer of love. So it
goes like this. I love spending time with you. I
have so much fun. I realize, though, that I have
a certain need to be alone so that I can
be better for you when I'm with you. I don't
(08:24):
want you to feel insecure about this, but sometimes I
just need a few hours or days by myself, and
that way I can come back to you as a
better partner and a happier person, because that's what you deserve.
See do you here that communication sandwich layer of love
follow by something a little harder to chew on, backed
(08:46):
up with another layer of love. I think you can
do this. You can do this, You really can. Hey,
when we come back, do you have mother in law problems? Surprise, surprise,
you're probably a woman and the mother in law is
the mother of the groom. I have a special guest
coming up next who actually wrote a book on this
(09:07):
there's six types of mother in laws out there. Luckily
I have the best one. Let's meet her when we
come back. You're listening to the Doctor Wendy Wall Show
on KFI AM six forty. We're live everywhere on the
iHeartRadio app. Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy Wall Show
on KFI AM six forty, Live everywhere on the iHeartRadio App.
You know, I get people sending me DMS and emails
(09:31):
and calling into this show with this common question, and
it often has to do with a meddling mother in law.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Da da da da.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Often it has to do with her being critical of
the mom. There's the mom and the mother in law. Right,
the mother in law being critical of her son's wife
and her parenting ability and how she should deal with this,
et cetera. I thought I would bring on an expert,
a clinical psychologist who has a lot to say about this,
(10:05):
Doctor Tracy dog Leish. Did I say, right, dog Leish?
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Uh? Dogli's We're close.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
We're close as a new book coming out in November
called you your Husband and his Mother. Oh my goodness,
we have to get into it. Okay, So, first of all,
why did you decide to write a book about mother
in law's invading marriages.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Yes, this was one of the most common struggles showing
up in my therapy room, and we know it's one
of the top reasons couple's divorce is due to conflicts
around in laws. And what's really interesting about this is
that although conflict can show up between a son in
law and his mother in law, research actually shows and
(10:48):
the same with my clinical experience, is that most challenges
show up between the daughter in law and the mother
in law.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
I can see why because her first love is that
little book, and this woman is stealing him from her.
You know, when I was young and I was dating,
I came up with this theory that the worst guy
to ever date is an only child of a single
mother because he already had a wife. Because these single moms,
(11:19):
you know, they romanticize the relationship with their son and
they have a hard time. You know, they feel guilty
falling in love even because they'd be disconnecting from their
mom in some way. I should share doctor Tracy that
I got married a year ago and I was not
prepared for how much I would fall in love with
(11:41):
my mother in law. I feel my mother died. My
mother died of breast cancer when I was young, and
to suddenly have a mother figure that I can call
any time of the day with great advice is amazing.
And in fact, when we had our first fight that
was a pretty big one, I called her the next day,
did you know what your son said? And she reeledly
(12:01):
been by the time I got home, and he's sixty
five years old, he came home and said, oh, Mom
called me. I'm really sorry she stuck my side.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
In that rate there. Tell me that here the woman
who wants to support and honor your WII, which is
so important for couples because you are trying to connect,
You're trying to build in different family members, and that
sense of belonging and respect that she showed you is
exactly what we need from law.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
And our family. On my side, our family system is
we just collect new members. We don't get rid of
anybody unless they go in the grave. We just keep
getting new ones. So let's talk a little bit. You
say the biggest problem is between the mother in law,
the mother of the groom and the bride. What are
the biggest conflicts over and why?
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Yes, the biggest conflicts tend to show up around time
with family, around how parenting is communicated, how the new
wave of parent today is showing up, and how it
looks very different. There's a lot of tension that tends
to show up between how women today are doing things
in their families, how they're parenting, how they're managing the
(13:18):
mental load. And so then here is this sense of
tension from another woman, and she's wondering, if you're doing
it differently, doesn't mean that I did it wrong.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
And then here so basically she's basically when she's criticizing
the daughter in law's parenting, she's really saying, oh gosh,
if she got it right, then I must have made
some big mistakes. And she doesn't want to face.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
That, which really leads into their insecurity. And if a
mother only defines herself through her role as mother to son,
it's going to really threaten whether she's going to maintain
a role in this new family. And how wonderful it
is that her son has married and is starting his
own chosen family. But for many mothers, they do go
(14:04):
into that place of insecurity. What role will I play here?
Am I going to still be included in holidays? Will
I lose my son? To his in law family, and
that stirs up a lot of feelings, especially when husband
and wife can't communicate and get on the same page
and communicate their needs and desires for navigating both sides
(14:25):
of their family.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Well, I would say that the husband probably feels torn
between his mother and his wife. Should the onus be
on him to set some boundaries?
Speaker 3 (14:41):
My response to that is usually it depends. It depends
on the type of mother in law you have, and Wendy,
in my book, I outline six different types of mothers
in law so that readers will learn who are they
dealing with, not as a diagnosis, but as a what's
the behavior that shows up here? So I know how
I can communicate and not get stuck in that.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
So why don't we go through the six of them
and you tell me with each one whether the sun
should put the foot down in this one or not?
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Absolutely? Okay.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
So the first one you say is the martyr? What's
the mother in law martyr?
Speaker 3 (15:17):
The mother in law martyr she gives with guilt attached
to it. She'll say something like, after all I've done
for you, or she'll say yes to looking after the kids.
But then she'll tell other people that she's so exhausted,
and the martyrs difficult because as a daughter in law,
you want to make sure you don't do things out
of guilt, so you do want to have your boundaries.
(15:39):
But if the martyr isn't able to hear your boundaries,
then that would be a good spot for your husband
to step in and communicate those boundaries. And when I
say communication, I also go back to that we language,
because when you go to any mother and you say, well, hey,
my partner doesn't want to be here for Christmas, immediately
you've made her the escapegoat.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Right, So you can say something like, if she's the martyr,
you can say, we really appreciate that you babysit, but
we can see that it makes you tired, so we'd
like to find a way where you can do it
less often or for less periods of time so you're
not so exhausted. Would that make sense?
Speaker 3 (16:18):
That was absolutely And sometimes it's also just about acknowledging hmm,
you're feeling tired right now, or really letting her know
that she is important to you. But it doesn't mean
that you have to say yes to all of her requests.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Right all right? The second kind of mother in law,
you say, is the victim. She's only a side step
away from the martyr. The victim tell me about her.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
The victim is someone who sees life as happening to her,
and she'll say things like why does this always happen
to me? And the tricky piece with a victim mother
in law is that it pulls everybody else to be
a rescuer. And so for many couples, I see son
leaving his family and going off to look after mom.
(17:05):
Mom calls and says, the dishwasher's broken, and so he's
running over right away. Or there's an argument between her
and husband, her and dad, and so her son's running
over to rescue this.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
And so how do we stop this?
Speaker 3 (17:19):
This one is recognizing that your mother does have agency,
and that it's not about having to continuously point out
don't play the victim, but instead giving that responsibility back
to her and saying, you know, I trust that you'll
be able to figure that.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Out right, putting it on her. I wish I could
help you, but I know you'll be able to figure
it out. Exactly, fix your own dishwasher. You know, there's
this app called task Rabbit you can have a guy
come over, all right, so we have to go to break.
When we come back, I want to talk about the
other four kinds of monster in law, I mean mother
(17:54):
in law's. And then also I want to get your
prediction on what might happen with Taylor Swift and Travis
Kelsey's moms because they're both very involved in this relationship.
My guest is doctor Tracy doll g Leish. How'd I
do it? Doll Gleiche, I got the l in there,
and she is a clinical psychologist. Her book that's coming
(18:15):
out and you can pre order it now, is You
Your Husband and His Mother. You're listening to the Doctor
Wendy Wall Show on KFI AM six forty We're live
everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI
AM six forty.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy Walls six forty five
everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. My guest is clinical psychologist
doctor Tracy Dalgleish, and her new book coming out is
called You Your Husband and His Mother. Okay, doctor Tracy,
we've been talking about the different kinds of mother in law.
You want to know some little side thing. My husband
(18:53):
is a film producer. Do you remember that Jalo movie
years ago called Monster in Law with Jane Fonda. He
produced that. So there you go, we have the film poster.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
What a beautiful representation of the trope of in law law.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
All right, so you talked about mother in laws who
were martyrs and victims. Oh what about the blamers? What
are blamers?
Speaker 3 (19:23):
The blamer mother in law scapegoats the daughter in law.
She says things like, we never had these problems before you.
And this is so tricky because it's like wanting to
externalize through criticism and blame and to put the problems
on someone else. And because who is the newest person
who maybe isn't being brought to feel like an insider.
(19:45):
That's the daughter in law.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
And so in this case, do you need your husband
to step in and set up some boundaries.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
This is a great situation where you really need your
husband to step in and say this is not because
of her. This is the decision we are making. And
I remind people as well that these issues existed long
before the daughter in law joined the family, but the
family might not have been able to label these problems
because of the things her husband was doing at the
(20:15):
time to deal with the pattern.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Interesting, all right. You also mentioned the controller, the controlling
mother in law. What does she do?
Speaker 3 (20:24):
She believes that she knows best. She'll say things like
this is how we do it in our family. She's
filled with advice she comes with Maybe it feels like
it's coming from a good place, but it feels a
bit like there's criticism in there around your parenting choices,
around the choices of where you're sending the kids for school,
or what the holidays are going to look like. And
here I remind daughters in law that know what your
(20:46):
boundaries are ahead of time, and this is more important
than debating with your mother in law.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Right, So you don't get into it with them. You
just take some advice and ignore other that that's what
I do. I ignore some of the advice and oh yeah,
that's a good point, and I don't do it right.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
We call this the self boundary. It's not something that
you have to argue with and get into more.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
The distance, sir, a mother in law who's actually not
involved with the grandkids. I've had people call the show
and say they feel so sad they thought their kids
would have grandparents and they're off in Florida and they
barely call or see what I mean. You can't make
somebody get involved.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Can you?
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Yeah? And I think this is where grief comes up,
because again, women mary not to hope one day they
won't have more family around them, but in hope that
someone will be part of them. And this type of
mother in law really came from the women I worked with,
who would say, my mother in law lives twenty minutes
down the street and I barely see her. She doesn't
come over, she doesn't see the kids, and it can
(21:48):
be really difficult. And I think what's important for families
to recognize is that there's this avoidance of conflict. It's
a distance, it's a withdrawn type person and she'll say
things like this is just who I am, or will
keep herself busy. But daughters in law here need to
remember this isn't personal and it's not about their worth
(22:10):
or loveability.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
So the work should be in ourselves. If this happens,
it's like it's about our own self esteem, because we
can't make somebody be a good grandparent if they don't
want to.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Be right, Absolutely, and you can continue to invite them
as long as it's not exhausting you and it might change,
but it might not. And we don't get to control
somebody else.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Yeah, that's very important.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Now.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
The last one I think is a good one. Right
the supporter tell me about the father in law who's
a supporter.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Yeah, she says, how can I care for you? And
many daughters in law will say this is the one
that I've hit the jackpod. There's this sense of mutuality
and respect and care. But I still remind people that
you need to work on healthy communication strategies and here
you likely feel safe and here to say to your
(23:01):
mother in law, Hey, Christmas needs to look different this year.
Can we talk about what we're going to have this year?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Yeah? We are starting to head into holiday season now,
so do you have some advice if people are dealing
with any of these mother in laws over the holidays.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Start these conversations now and making sure you and your
partner are on the same page. And this doesn't mean
that you are abandoning extended family. It's more about prioritizing
the needs of you and your partner. That's your chosen
family has to come first, and then you get to
bring in others along the way.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
And I know what of my viewers is going to say,
because she's called into the show and ask me this,
What about if my husband won't put boundaries on his
mother and what if he chooses her over me all
the time? What do I do?
Speaker 3 (23:48):
The question is are you willing to accept this? Because
he's saying he's not going to change? So are you
willing to accept that he will put his mother above you?
And if that's the case and you're going to accept it,
how do you then start carving out ways for yourself
to maybe build some kind of relationship with her. Or
do you then focus on the good parts of your
(24:11):
relationship and nurture that and then you let him go
and do that part in his life.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
I love that you said that because that's one of
my favorite things. You know, no partner is perfect, no
relationship is perfect. And if we only focus on the negative, boy,
that garden will grow. But if we focus, if we
take our time, and you can literally take your mind
and bend it and go yeah, but you know, she's
really nice when she does this, and I really like
(24:36):
when they're like this, and you can literally make your
relationship great in your own mind, which I love all right.
So I fan girled a while back on the show
about Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey's I watched the two
hours of them on the Brothers podcast, and I was
shocked that I liked them so much. Shocked because two
(24:57):
years ago, apparently I said this has never gonna last,
and now look here we are. But their parents, they
both have very close families, and the families know each other.
I always say that a good relationship is a bridge
between tribes. Do you see any potential for chaos here
with mother in laws?
Speaker 3 (25:16):
I don't see any of those potentials. I was thinking
about the image this shot of where Donna grabs Taylor
and takes her down on the field, and right there
it's this belonging, it's this you are one of us,
You're coming down with us, and right there is this
symbol of you're part of our family already. And just
(25:38):
knowing how much both of these nurture their children and
they show up for them, I just feel so beyond
excited for how it's going to go forward with them.
But you know, I think, like all couples, they're going
to have to have conversations like who are we with
on Christmas, and who are we going to visit for Thanksgiving?
And who's doing who's making what sour dough this year?
(26:00):
A document?
Speaker 2 (26:01):
And when a baby comes, you know, who's going to
get to Which grandparents are we visiting for this or
are they going to pull it together all the time.
I mean I actually did a little rundown to figure
out how many houses they have. They have a lot
of houses, okay in a lot of places that are
well staffed, so they're going to have support that other
families might not have. But my heart was really warmed
(26:23):
when I did watch that podcast that you know they
all they both have friends and still close friends from childhood,
so they have good, strong roots, which is it's fun
to watch.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
They really do. Yeah, it's solid and just hearing how
they both talk about prioritizing each other and not letting
in the outside world. That's the weakness that we look
for and a strong relationships super important.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Well, I wish you well with your book. People can
pre order it now. The book is called You Your
Husband and his Mother. A clinical psychologist and author, Doctor
Tracy Dauglish, Thank you so much for being with us.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Thank you so much, Doctor Wendy and.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
That brings the Doctor Wendy Wall Show to a close.
It is always my pleasure to be with you every
Sunday evening. If you'd like to follow me on my
social media you may The handle is at doctor Wendy Walsh.
But I'm always here for you on KFI on Sundays.
You've been listening to the Doctor Wendy Walls Show on
KFI AM six forty live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.
(27:27):
You've been listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh. You can always
hear us live on KFI AM six forty from seven
to nine pm on Sunday and anytime on demand on
the iHeartRadio app
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