October 27, 2025 • 26 mins
Dr. endy tackles the emotional side of friendship — what to do when someone ghosts you — and speaks with author and motivational speaker Bershan Shaw about breast cancer awareness, resilience, and finding strength through life’s toughest battles. It’s all on KFIAM-640!
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Doctor Wendy Walsh and you're listening to k
I AM six forty the Doctor Wendy Walls Show on
demand on the iHeartRadio app. Welcome back to the Doctor
Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty Live everywhere
on the iHeartRadio App. Okay, I'm going to make everybody
who is listening feel better right now, because there's something
(00:25):
that has happened to me a couple times in my life,
and actually in the last couple of years. It happened
to Julio one time, and it happens to everybody at
some point. But when this thing happens, we are left
not only feeling confused, we're left in a great deal
(00:46):
of pain, and there's no way for us to solve
this relationship dilemma. All right, here's what I'm talking about.
I'm actually not talking about romantic relationships. Have you ever
had the situation where somebody who you've been friends with
and you really like and you get along great, and
everything's all fine, and then they just suddenly ghost you
(01:08):
and you're thinking, what did we say, what was the
last conversation, what happened there? And so you reach out,
you do the whole. Hey, are you okay? I'm worried
about you. Everything, nothing, radio silence. Let me tell you
the couple times this has happened in my life, and
I do want to say that the two times it's happened,
(01:28):
well one, two, three oh three those people on the
other side of it. So here's how I dealt with
it because of my nerdy little brain definitely had an
avoid attachment style. They had a family system in their
early life where they weren't comfortable talking about their feelings.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
So for them, it's an act of avoidance, right. I can't.
I haven't.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
I don't have the skills to tell Wendy why I'm
mad at her, So I'm just going to cut her
off and then I don't have to deal with it anymore.
We can't, we don't have to discuss, we don't have
to make repair. I can move on because maybe there
are other people in the world. So here's the bad
news for anybody who has either ghosted somebody or been
the recipient of it. There is news from neuroscience that
(02:16):
shows that when you feel socially rejected, the same brain
regions light up as physical pain. All right, So it's
the same place that processes emotional pain and bodily hurt,
and that's why it can literally ache. I don't know
(02:38):
about you, but when I think about those couple people,
I get like, like a I don't know, a bile
in my stomach or a feeling in my chest. And
the weird thing is the other emotion I experience is
like embarrassment or shame, like what did I say?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
I didn't mean to hurt them?
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Or I feel so misunderstood that wasn't my intention, right,
So what neuroscientists will tell us is that when you
lose a friendship like that, you will be Your serotonin
will be disrupted, your dopamine, all your good stuff, and
you'll get more stress hormones of course, But what it
does is leaves the brain. When someone just sort of
(03:16):
vanishes without any kind of closure, it leaves the brain
looping and looking for those kinds of answers. So there
was some research I dug up. It said that about
forty five percent of people have been ghosted by a friend.
Well you lucky fifty five percent, Okay, because I'm absorbing
your loss because it's happened.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
To me three times.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
I do want to say that two of the three
friends years later came back around, but like didn't want
to talk about it, just picked up where they left off.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Was interesting.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
One is still gone into the Netherlands, a center of
few texts. It was during COVID, the whole vaccine thing
and a disaster to get vaccinated. If she want to
be around me, you know, anyway, she's gone. I will
say that because of how digital technology is so our
friends used to live next door, down the block, in
the workplace, and now of course there are people that
(04:08):
we text and call. It is easier to ghost somebody,
and research does support people that ghost to others mostly
have and avoidant attachment style. But I'm telling you, being
ghosted by a friend feels I think worse than a
romantic breakup, right, because our friendships are supposed to be
(04:28):
our secure base. They're supposed to be like our safe zone, right,
and then we have this absence of closure. It's funny
when it comes to romantic relationships. People always say I
want to talk to this person so I can have closure,
and I'm like, write a letter to yourself, go talk
to your therapist. I don't know that you're going to
get any more information from this person. But with a friend,
(04:50):
it's different because friends are part of our identity. So
we're thinking, was I a bad friend? Or did I
misinterpret this relationship? Maybe we weren't as close as I
thought we were. So let me talk about some of
the things you can do now that you know you're
normal and it's happened to Okay, the research has forty
(05:11):
five percent of the people, but I think that's the
forty five percent who admitted to it. I think it
happens to everybody at some point, because you know, twenty
thirty percent of the population is avoidant, so they're apt
to be ghosting a lot of people in their life. Oh,
I do want to add this one other thing. Did
you know that a full seventy percent of close relationships
fade within seven years? Da da da da every seven years.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
That's why I.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Think about my super long term friends. I have one
friend I've known for fifty years, another one fifty one,
and then two of them like I don't know how
many years nineteen eighty eight goes back to, but is
that thirty something? Anyway, I have those two friends too,
so I'm super lucky. But that's because I have more
of the anxious attachment side, and I'm a loyal dog.
(06:00):
I just hang on, right, But apparently friendships come in
and out depending on where we are in our life
and what our interests are, et cetera. All right, if
you have been ghosted, I don't want you to brush
it off. I know when you think about it, you
start to ruminate. You don't like that feeling in your stomach.
Somebody told me this recently. Oh it was my therapist, Yes,
(06:21):
my therapist. My therapist said, if you allow yourself to
feel even the uncomfortable emotions for as long as they
need to be felt, they trail off, they disappear, they
just work their way through. But if you don't, then
they keep coming back because they want to be able
to work through. So stop and feel sad, feel grief,
feel lost. Right, these are real breakups. It's a real
(06:43):
breakup you've experienced. I think it's okay to send one
last text, email or like the what have I done?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Email? Or I'm sorry if I hurt you.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
I don't know why email or text, because why not?
You have a right, it's your experience and you should
reach out to the person.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Not you're a jerk. I can't believe you did this
to me, not that text.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
The text that's just kind of like, hey, you know,
I don't know what I did to hurt you. We
must have a misunderstanding. I miss you, I miss our friendship.
And just leave it there, okay. I just want to
add oh, and also fill up your social calendar with
other people. Remember they can be replaced. I also saw
some research that showed that the higher someone's self esteem,
(07:26):
the more likely they are to ghost somebody because they
think friends are replaceable, because in their life apparently friends
are easily replaceable. I want to remind you, guys, self
esteem is not correlated with morality, meaning there are plenty
of serial killers who have high self esteem. Okay, but
it just means you like yourself. So people who like
(07:46):
themselves are more likely to go.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Is that crazy? Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
All right, if you're ever tempted to ghost somebody, I
want you to remember what it felt like when it
happened to you. Right, I know, just disappearing feels easier,
but I want you to have mature closure. I want
you to honor the humanity and yourself and the humanity
(08:10):
and somebody else. So, if you're listening, to this right now.
And there's somebody you haven't been getting back to and
they've reached out. Please do it. Just say, hey, I
have to move on at this time. You're a valuable person.
It was a great friendship, but I have to move on.
Why not just let them know, no hard feelings. Let's
just move on. That's what you need to do. Hey,
(08:33):
when we come back, I have a very special guest.
It is Breast Cancer Awareness Month. Can you believe this
guest was once diagnosed with stage four breast cancer. There
is no stage five and.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
She's still with us today.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
You're gonna love her. You're listening to the Doctor Wendie
Walls Show.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI
AM six forty.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Well, my next guest is motivating and shaping and helping
and prodding a lot of people in America. And she's
doing it with a smile on her face and so
much optimism, despite the fact that she became a coach
and motivational speaker because a trauma that happened to her.
(09:22):
I would like to welcome Bershon Shaw. How are you
burshn oh.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
Yes, good? How are you? Thank you? Thank you for
having me.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
So you really came into this world of sharing your
light with other people because of a threat that your
light was going to be dimmed. So let's take us
to the beginning. What happened in two thousand and nine.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
So in the beginning, right, I got diagnosed with stage
four breast cancer. But it started in two thousand and seven, right,
So in two thousand and seven I got diagnosed. I
didn't do chemo, I did radiation, and then two years
later it came back and it was stage four.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Okay, we want to remind everybody there's no such thing
as stage five cancer.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Okay, no four exactly right. So let's talk.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
About emotionally what you went through when you first heard
that news.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
You know, I was devastated, young, thirty years old. You
don't think that the doctors are going to tell you
it's terminal breast cancer. Because I had a bad back
and my back was hurting, and so everything I tried
to do, exercises, go to chiropractice, go to all these doctors,
(10:46):
and no one could figure it out until the doctor
said let's do an MRI. And I remember to this
day I was going to get the results, but I
just thought it was a slip dis and you know,
they were going to give me some painkillers and the
doctor told me to sit down. Oh and you know,
no one wants to hear sit down. And he said,
you know, this is different than we thought. This isn't
(11:09):
a slip disc. This is terminal breast cancer. It spread
throughout your body.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
WHOA, so it already metastasized.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
It metastasized.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Okay, So you're a young woman getting this news, and
I'm sure it's emotionally devastating. Spoiler alert to anybody listening.
This is back in two thousand and nine. I don't
know if you checked your calendar. This is twenty twenty five.
This is not on tape.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
She's here, she's here with us.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Yes, I'm here, you'll talk.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Yes, So what did you do?
Speaker 1 (11:44):
What were your treatments? How did you figure this out?
And how did this inspire you to help others? You know?
Speaker 4 (11:51):
Oh God, this is a journey. So I remember to
this day. I went out into the hallway. I just said,
give me a minute, because I didn't I was so stunned.
I went into the hallway, I got on my knees
and I just prayed and I said, God, I know
this is not my journey and my time. If you
keep me alive, I will motivate people all around the world.
(12:11):
If this is my calling, I know I'm not supposed
to go. I know I have a bigger calling. And
here I am. And like literally, I changed my mindset
because at first I was depressed, mad, angry, just like
why me? But then something clip and it's like if
(12:32):
days went by, I wasn't getting sick, I didn't die.
They gave me three months. They said, you know, your
best chances are probably ninety days. Wow, ninety days went
one hundred and twenty days went two hundred days and
I was still there. And I said, change your mindset,
get busy living, not dying.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
No everyday count Brishan.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
I heard an interesting sentence today that I love from
a medical doctor and he said, you know every cell
in your body is eavesdropping on your thoughts.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Mm yep, I love that.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
And so what did you change in your thoughts that
you attribute to your miraculous healing.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
I told myself I am healthy, I am powerful, I
am worthy, and I deserve to live literally those four
things every day, seven to ten times a day.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
And we don't want to mislead people. You also sought
medical treatment, Oh.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, yeah no, I didn't just
do affirmations and metaphor. Yeah. I mean I did chemo,
I did radiation, but I changed my diet right so
I would eat meat, beef, and lamb. I took all
of that out. I went vegan. I went vegan, I
started exercising. I started doing manifestations every day, positivity meditation,
(14:01):
like literally, I did it three sixty wow.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
And so when did you start to feel like, Okay,
this is gonna work.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
I'm starting to beat.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
This, you know, probably year two. And this is funny
because I did a clinical trial with JOHNS. Hopkins and
the doctor said she wanted me to be the keynote speaker.
And this was like now, fifteen years ago. I wasn't
a speaker. I knew nothing about this, but I had
(14:33):
written this speech and it took me all day to
write it, and then when I got in front of
the people, I tore the speech up. I said, I
wanted to be authentic and real. And I remember saying this,
I'm not a statistic and I by you every day.
Count don't be a statistic and you're not dead until
(14:54):
the day you are really dead. And I think something
just clicked and I was like, I'm living.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
You certainly are tell me about you know what. I'm
a professor of health psychology, and one of the things
that there's a lot of research to support is that
the more friends and yes, of course romantic relationships are important,
but the more social support in general that we have,
the better our health. What did you have in terms
of social support?
Speaker 4 (15:22):
You know, You're You're exactly right. Community, friends, family, people
coming to visit me, you know, friends going out to
watch comedy shows. Like I said, I'm going to get
busy living, so I would go to exercise, I would
go walking with friends and laughing and talking. And that's
(15:45):
the thing we are now. We're lonely, you know, we've
gotten away from community.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Oh have we ever?
Speaker 4 (15:52):
Have we ever? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (15:53):
And many people don't have the tools to just reach out.
Like for instance, this week, I went through a little
EBB and flow happened. You know, I just felt a
little down for a couple of days, and rather than
I noticed myself not getting through my to do list,
laying around just feeling kind alone, and I started just
calling and texting girlfriends. It's like I scared up a
(16:13):
circle of friends and we're planning a retreat in January.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Now we're busy, right, But that I love that.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
But you know, you have to recognize it in yourself
when those moments happen, to know, oh, I need some
social support.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
I shouldn't be alone right now?
Speaker 4 (16:27):
I me, yes, I can't be alone. And so that's
what we have to get back to human connection, calling someone,
going over to see a friend, going for a walk,
going to the gym, going out to eat, like get
don't do it alone because it doesn't work. You spiral
in your thoughts.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
So when we come back, we have to go for
a break. Now I want to talk. I know that
you coach people. You're a motivational speaker and specifically to women,
but also all humans on the planet. When we come back,
will you share some of your wisdom with us, Like
one of the five things you tell everything everybody they
need to do.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
In their list.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Okay, hang on.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
My guest is Bershon Shaw. You can find her on Instagram.
She's actually all over the internet. A motivational speaker, business coach,
women's advocate, and author who overcame stage four breast cancer
and is healthy and vibrant today.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Will return with more in a moment.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
You're listening to doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI
AM six forty.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
My guest is Bershon Shaw. That's a mouthful, Bershawn Shaw.
There's two sahs there.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Yeah, Breshonshaw. You can find her on Instagram.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
She's a motivational speaker, a business coach, women's advocate. But
I wanted to have her on because I wanted to hear,
as you just heard about her journey having been diagnosed
with terminal stage four breast cancer that had metastasized, to
get to a place of health and vibrancy and share us,
share it with us all. Brashaan, are you completely cancer
(18:03):
free now? Well?
Speaker 4 (18:05):
Yeah, I mean they say once you're stage four because
it fantastasized, there's no such thing. My doctor believes that
cancer free is not the word. I am in remission.
She believes that, like you know, you're in remission. Everyone's
in remission once you have cancer. So yes, I am.
You know.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I often teach my students that we all have cancer
cells in our body at all times. We do, but
we also many people are very lucky enough to have
really good cancer fighting genes or strong immune systems to
be fighting it off as we go along. So it's like,
in a way, we're all we all have cancer.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
Yeah, because it's just cells that need tate, right, so
exactly all in our body. Yep. And so I'm considered
no evidence of disease.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Wonderful. That's the best news I heard today. Okay, so
let's get to it. What are some of the things.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
First of all, what are the things people most often
present to you as sort of you know, life problems
that they're looking for.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Your advice on.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
You know, the biggest thing is probably depression. Depression and loneliness.
Those are the two. And let me tell you what
I didn't tell you, doctor Wendy is from all of this.
I started an app, a mental health app called You
Are a Warrior.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
How does the app work?
Speaker 3 (19:27):
What does it do?
Speaker 4 (19:29):
So you spell it the letter you are a wa
R r io R. It's a community. It's people sharing
their warrior stories because we all have a story, whether
it's substance abuse, depression, anxiety, loneliness. People get on and share.
We have live coaches, we have AI Warrior coaches, and
(19:49):
we have daily motivation, all the things that healed me
and all the things that I needed to get better.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
So we are suffering from an epidemic of an epidemic
of isolation, and especially with gen Z. I saw statistic
recently that gen Z spends less than one thousand hours
a year actually talking to another human.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
All right, and oh wow.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
So the young people we really need to reach out
to more than anything. If you could give us some thoughts,
some of your wisdom on the best ways we can
treat whether we're somebody experiencing isolation or where somebody who
has some social support around us that needs to pull
more people into the tribe. What's some advice.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
You have, I would say, you know what, go and
have real fun with people. I know it's hard to
put the phone down. I know that is just, but
go and do some activities. Go bike riding together, go
bowling together, gen zs, go to a walk, go to
a dance party. Stop just being on your phone looking
(20:58):
on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, like snapchat, like, really, get to
know someone, go eat pizza together. Like that's my advice
because people are really suffering in silence and in order
to get over this we have to do the work,
we really do.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
It has to be on us.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
But I do want to say to people who do
have your regular group of friends and your family and
your neighbors, look around you. There are people at your work,
there are people in your exercise classes, there are people
at your church. There are people who don't have anybody,
and it's your job to bring them back to the
dinner table.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
You know, when I was a kid, you know, we
grew up.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Military in my household, and so we're always on navy bases.
And my mom, you know, it's like being a single
mom when you're a military wife because the guys are
all gone.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
And she had to get social support.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
So one place, when we moved to a new place,
she joined and adopt a grandmother program, which was so adorable.
We had this little lady over every Sunday for dinner,
and my mom would take her out a couple times
a week. She came to our school place, and you know,
she didn't have any family in town.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
And I thought, why don't we have stuff like this anymore?
Speaker 4 (22:12):
You know, I love that. I love that.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Isn't that great?
Speaker 4 (22:16):
What we need?
Speaker 2 (22:17):
We need adop to grand bear. Let's put that on
our app.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
If you're over seventy five and you want some young
people around you, join her app.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
We'll connect to you.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
Right, and let's talk.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
A little bit about wellness. You know it is Breast
cancer Awareness month. You are a miracle story, both a
medical miracle story and a mental health story. What advice
would you give people women specifically during Breast cancer Awareness Month?
Speaker 4 (22:47):
Check your boobies. Yeah, go and get mammograms. Don't be afraid. Right,
chancer is in a death sentence. Unless you want to
ignore things, don't do it. Go and check your breast,
but also understand your breast yourself. Just know your body.
(23:07):
Check it monthly. I do it. I raise my arm
in the shower and I check myself monthly. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
They say do it on your the day of the month,
that's your birthday, so you won't forget. So I'm April thirtieth,
So I do it on the thirtieth of every month.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
And that reminds me.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
I like that.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
Oh okay, I like that. Okay, okay, I'm going to
do it in twenty second. I like that. Yeah, so
you'll forget to check your breath and yeah, and know yourself.
That's so important.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
And there are certain populations. As a health psychology professor,
the research shows that certain populations African American women, Latino
women are less likely to go. Partly this is because
of economics and not having health insurance that will cover it.
But if people reach out, there is a free mammogram everywhere,
(23:54):
and is.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
A free mammogram everywhere? Yes, please repeat that, yes, yes, yes, And.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
I want to remind you that there is a cure
for cancer. It's called early detection. If you know, you're
a miracle story brashon. But if breast cancer is detected
at stage one, it's got like a ninety nine percent
recovery rate.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Does Yeah, we've made such advances.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
So it's really up to the public to women to
get out there and not be afraid of this kind
of information. And let's dispel some myths. Mammograms don't give
you radiation, they don't give you breast cancer.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
Okay, you're not right, they don't.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
You know, some people are afraid of the tests themselves, right, Yeah, you.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Won't, you won't.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
You also changed your diet enormously. What was your diet
like before you had were diagnosed with cancer?
Speaker 4 (24:51):
Well, you know, when you're young, you eat everything pizza, burgers, fries,
and you just think that you're invisible, nothing happens. But
you know, I gotta tell you eat Eating healthy just
makes me feel great. I eat berries, blueberries, blackberries, rasberries
every day. I juice, I eat veggies, salads. I mean,
(25:14):
it just really makes you feel good. And I don't
really drink. I don't drink anymore. Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Like I started to get nasty headaches and I drank
delicious wine my whole life. It's so so, I know.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
But as you get older, you're like, my house comes first.
So I don't really drink and I feel good every day.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Oh, we're so happy for you, Brashaan. I think it's
wonderful news. Can you give us information about where people
can find you and find out more about the app?
Speaker 4 (25:44):
Yes, thank you so on Instagram, LinkedIn everywhere you spell
my name b E R S h A N. That's
the first name, last name Shaw Shaw in the app.
It's in the app store, Google Store. But you got
to write it all together. That are you the letter?
Are the letter a warrior waror and it's everywhere right.
(26:09):
It's a community of support because we all have a
warrior story. I want a place where we can normalize
mental health and we can share and talk and get
and just get support. And that's what we're doing. We're
starting a You Are a Warrior movement.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
It's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
And you know what I tell my students is that
if you have this idea of the stigma around bad
mental health, you might have a believe in a mythology
that you're either quote unquote crazy or not, when actually
mental health is a lot like physical health. You can
get a cold, it can last a few days. We
call that situational depression, right, you can. I mean it's
(26:45):
not like literally, at any given time, probably twenty five
percent of the American public is experiencing some kind of
mental health issue.
This is Doctor Wendy Walsh and you're listening to k
I AM six forty the Doctor Wendy Walls Show on
demand on the iHeartRadio app. Welcome back to the Doctor
Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty Live everywhere
on the iHeartRadio App. Okay, I'm going to make everybody
who is listening feel better right now, because there's something
(00:25):
that has happened to me a couple times in my life,
and actually in the last couple of years. It happened
to Julio one time, and it happens to everybody at
some point. But when this thing happens, we are left
not only feeling confused, we're left in a great deal
(00:46):
of pain, and there's no way for us to solve
this relationship dilemma. All right, here's what I'm talking about.
I'm actually not talking about romantic relationships. Have you ever
had the situation where somebody who you've been friends with
and you really like and you get along great, and
everything's all fine, and then they just suddenly ghost you
(01:08):
and you're thinking, what did we say, what was the
last conversation, what happened there? And so you reach out,
you do the whole. Hey, are you okay? I'm worried
about you. Everything, nothing, radio silence. Let me tell you
the couple times this has happened in my life, and
I do want to say that the two times it's happened,
(01:28):
well one, two, three oh three those people on the
other side of it. So here's how I dealt with
it because of my nerdy little brain definitely had an
avoid attachment style. They had a family system in their
early life where they weren't comfortable talking about their feelings.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
So for them, it's an act of avoidance, right. I can't.
I haven't.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
I don't have the skills to tell Wendy why I'm
mad at her, So I'm just going to cut her
off and then I don't have to deal with it anymore.
We can't, we don't have to discuss, we don't have
to make repair. I can move on because maybe there
are other people in the world. So here's the bad
news for anybody who has either ghosted somebody or been
the recipient of it. There is news from neuroscience that
(02:16):
shows that when you feel socially rejected, the same brain
regions light up as physical pain. All right, So it's
the same place that processes emotional pain and bodily hurt,
and that's why it can literally ache. I don't know
(02:38):
about you, but when I think about those couple people,
I get like, like a I don't know, a bile
in my stomach or a feeling in my chest. And
the weird thing is the other emotion I experience is
like embarrassment or shame, like what did I say?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
I didn't mean to hurt them?
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Or I feel so misunderstood that wasn't my intention, right,
So what neuroscientists will tell us is that when you
lose a friendship like that, you will be Your serotonin
will be disrupted, your dopamine, all your good stuff, and
you'll get more stress hormones of course, But what it
does is leaves the brain. When someone just sort of
(03:16):
vanishes without any kind of closure, it leaves the brain
looping and looking for those kinds of answers. So there
was some research I dug up. It said that about
forty five percent of people have been ghosted by a friend.
Well you lucky fifty five percent, Okay, because I'm absorbing
your loss because it's happened.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
To me three times.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
I do want to say that two of the three
friends years later came back around, but like didn't want
to talk about it, just picked up where they left off.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Was interesting.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
One is still gone into the Netherlands, a center of
few texts. It was during COVID, the whole vaccine thing
and a disaster to get vaccinated. If she want to
be around me, you know, anyway, she's gone. I will
say that because of how digital technology is so our
friends used to live next door, down the block, in
the workplace, and now of course there are people that
(04:08):
we text and call. It is easier to ghost somebody,
and research does support people that ghost to others mostly
have and avoidant attachment style. But I'm telling you, being
ghosted by a friend feels I think worse than a
romantic breakup, right, because our friendships are supposed to be
(04:28):
our secure base. They're supposed to be like our safe zone, right,
and then we have this absence of closure. It's funny
when it comes to romantic relationships. People always say I
want to talk to this person so I can have closure,
and I'm like, write a letter to yourself, go talk
to your therapist. I don't know that you're going to
get any more information from this person. But with a friend,
(04:50):
it's different because friends are part of our identity. So
we're thinking, was I a bad friend? Or did I
misinterpret this relationship? Maybe we weren't as close as I
thought we were. So let me talk about some of
the things you can do now that you know you're
normal and it's happened to Okay, the research has forty
(05:11):
five percent of the people, but I think that's the
forty five percent who admitted to it. I think it
happens to everybody at some point, because you know, twenty
thirty percent of the population is avoidant, so they're apt
to be ghosting a lot of people in their life. Oh,
I do want to add this one other thing. Did
you know that a full seventy percent of close relationships
fade within seven years? Da da da da every seven years.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
That's why I.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Think about my super long term friends. I have one
friend I've known for fifty years, another one fifty one,
and then two of them like I don't know how
many years nineteen eighty eight goes back to, but is
that thirty something? Anyway, I have those two friends too,
so I'm super lucky. But that's because I have more
of the anxious attachment side, and I'm a loyal dog.
(06:00):
I just hang on, right, But apparently friendships come in
and out depending on where we are in our life
and what our interests are, et cetera. All right, if
you have been ghosted, I don't want you to brush
it off. I know when you think about it, you
start to ruminate. You don't like that feeling in your stomach.
Somebody told me this recently. Oh it was my therapist, Yes,
(06:21):
my therapist. My therapist said, if you allow yourself to
feel even the uncomfortable emotions for as long as they
need to be felt, they trail off, they disappear, they
just work their way through. But if you don't, then
they keep coming back because they want to be able
to work through. So stop and feel sad, feel grief,
feel lost. Right, these are real breakups. It's a real
(06:43):
breakup you've experienced. I think it's okay to send one
last text, email or like the what have I done?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Email? Or I'm sorry if I hurt you.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
I don't know why email or text, because why not?
You have a right, it's your experience and you should
reach out to the person.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Not you're a jerk. I can't believe you did this
to me, not that text.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
The text that's just kind of like, hey, you know,
I don't know what I did to hurt you. We
must have a misunderstanding. I miss you, I miss our friendship.
And just leave it there, okay. I just want to
add oh, and also fill up your social calendar with
other people. Remember they can be replaced. I also saw
some research that showed that the higher someone's self esteem,
(07:26):
the more likely they are to ghost somebody because they
think friends are replaceable, because in their life apparently friends
are easily replaceable. I want to remind you, guys, self
esteem is not correlated with morality, meaning there are plenty
of serial killers who have high self esteem. Okay, but
it just means you like yourself. So people who like
(07:46):
themselves are more likely to go.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Is that crazy? Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
All right, if you're ever tempted to ghost somebody, I
want you to remember what it felt like when it
happened to you. Right, I know, just disappearing feels easier,
but I want you to have mature closure. I want
you to honor the humanity and yourself and the humanity
(08:10):
and somebody else. So, if you're listening, to this right now.
And there's somebody you haven't been getting back to and
they've reached out. Please do it. Just say, hey, I
have to move on at this time. You're a valuable person.
It was a great friendship, but I have to move on.
Why not just let them know, no hard feelings. Let's
just move on. That's what you need to do. Hey,
(08:33):
when we come back, I have a very special guest.
It is Breast Cancer Awareness Month. Can you believe this
guest was once diagnosed with stage four breast cancer. There
is no stage five and.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
She's still with us today.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
You're gonna love her. You're listening to the Doctor Wendie
Walls Show.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI
AM six forty.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Well, my next guest is motivating and shaping and helping
and prodding a lot of people in America. And she's
doing it with a smile on her face and so
much optimism, despite the fact that she became a coach
and motivational speaker because a trauma that happened to her.
(09:22):
I would like to welcome Bershon Shaw. How are you
burshn oh.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
Yes, good? How are you? Thank you? Thank you for
having me.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
So you really came into this world of sharing your
light with other people because of a threat that your
light was going to be dimmed. So let's take us
to the beginning. What happened in two thousand and nine.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
So in the beginning, right, I got diagnosed with stage
four breast cancer. But it started in two thousand and seven, right,
So in two thousand and seven I got diagnosed. I
didn't do chemo, I did radiation, and then two years
later it came back and it was stage four.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Okay, we want to remind everybody there's no such thing
as stage five cancer.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Okay, no four exactly right. So let's talk.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
About emotionally what you went through when you first heard
that news.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
You know, I was devastated, young, thirty years old. You
don't think that the doctors are going to tell you
it's terminal breast cancer. Because I had a bad back
and my back was hurting, and so everything I tried
to do, exercises, go to chiropractice, go to all these doctors,
(10:46):
and no one could figure it out until the doctor
said let's do an MRI. And I remember to this
day I was going to get the results, but I
just thought it was a slip dis and you know,
they were going to give me some painkillers and the
doctor told me to sit down. Oh and you know,
no one wants to hear sit down. And he said,
you know, this is different than we thought. This isn't
(11:09):
a slip disc. This is terminal breast cancer. It spread
throughout your body.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
WHOA, so it already metastasized.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
It metastasized.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Okay, So you're a young woman getting this news, and
I'm sure it's emotionally devastating. Spoiler alert to anybody listening.
This is back in two thousand and nine. I don't
know if you checked your calendar. This is twenty twenty five.
This is not on tape.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
She's here, she's here with us.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Yes, I'm here, you'll talk.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Yes, So what did you do?
Speaker 1 (11:44):
What were your treatments? How did you figure this out?
And how did this inspire you to help others? You know?
Speaker 4 (11:51):
Oh God, this is a journey. So I remember to
this day. I went out into the hallway. I just said,
give me a minute, because I didn't I was so stunned.
I went into the hallway, I got on my knees
and I just prayed and I said, God, I know
this is not my journey and my time. If you
keep me alive, I will motivate people all around the world.
(12:11):
If this is my calling, I know I'm not supposed
to go. I know I have a bigger calling. And
here I am. And like literally, I changed my mindset
because at first I was depressed, mad, angry, just like
why me? But then something clip and it's like if
(12:32):
days went by, I wasn't getting sick, I didn't die.
They gave me three months. They said, you know, your
best chances are probably ninety days. Wow, ninety days went
one hundred and twenty days went two hundred days and
I was still there. And I said, change your mindset,
get busy living, not dying.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
No everyday count Brishan.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
I heard an interesting sentence today that I love from
a medical doctor and he said, you know every cell
in your body is eavesdropping on your thoughts.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Mm yep, I love that.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
And so what did you change in your thoughts that
you attribute to your miraculous healing.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
I told myself I am healthy, I am powerful, I
am worthy, and I deserve to live literally those four
things every day, seven to ten times a day.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
And we don't want to mislead people. You also sought
medical treatment, Oh.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, yeah no, I didn't just
do affirmations and metaphor. Yeah. I mean I did chemo,
I did radiation, but I changed my diet right so
I would eat meat, beef, and lamb. I took all
of that out. I went vegan. I went vegan, I
started exercising. I started doing manifestations every day, positivity meditation,
(14:01):
like literally, I did it three sixty wow.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
And so when did you start to feel like, Okay,
this is gonna work.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
I'm starting to beat.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
This, you know, probably year two. And this is funny
because I did a clinical trial with JOHNS. Hopkins and
the doctor said she wanted me to be the keynote speaker.
And this was like now, fifteen years ago. I wasn't
a speaker. I knew nothing about this, but I had
(14:33):
written this speech and it took me all day to
write it, and then when I got in front of
the people, I tore the speech up. I said, I
wanted to be authentic and real. And I remember saying this,
I'm not a statistic and I by you every day.
Count don't be a statistic and you're not dead until
(14:54):
the day you are really dead. And I think something
just clicked and I was like, I'm living.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
You certainly are tell me about you know what. I'm
a professor of health psychology, and one of the things
that there's a lot of research to support is that
the more friends and yes, of course romantic relationships are important,
but the more social support in general that we have,
the better our health. What did you have in terms
of social support?
Speaker 4 (15:22):
You know, You're You're exactly right. Community, friends, family, people
coming to visit me, you know, friends going out to
watch comedy shows. Like I said, I'm going to get
busy living, so I would go to exercise, I would
go walking with friends and laughing and talking. And that's
(15:45):
the thing we are now. We're lonely, you know, we've
gotten away from community.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Oh have we ever?
Speaker 4 (15:52):
Have we ever? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (15:53):
And many people don't have the tools to just reach out.
Like for instance, this week, I went through a little
EBB and flow happened. You know, I just felt a
little down for a couple of days, and rather than
I noticed myself not getting through my to do list,
laying around just feeling kind alone, and I started just
calling and texting girlfriends. It's like I scared up a
(16:13):
circle of friends and we're planning a retreat in January.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Now we're busy, right, But that I love that.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
But you know, you have to recognize it in yourself
when those moments happen, to know, oh, I need some
social support.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
I shouldn't be alone right now?
Speaker 4 (16:27):
I me, yes, I can't be alone. And so that's
what we have to get back to human connection, calling someone,
going over to see a friend, going for a walk,
going to the gym, going out to eat, like get
don't do it alone because it doesn't work. You spiral
in your thoughts.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
So when we come back, we have to go for
a break. Now I want to talk. I know that
you coach people. You're a motivational speaker and specifically to women,
but also all humans on the planet. When we come back,
will you share some of your wisdom with us, Like
one of the five things you tell everything everybody they
need to do.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
In their list.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Okay, hang on.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
My guest is Bershon Shaw. You can find her on Instagram.
She's actually all over the internet. A motivational speaker, business coach,
women's advocate, and author who overcame stage four breast cancer
and is healthy and vibrant today.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Will return with more in a moment.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
You're listening to doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI
AM six forty.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
My guest is Bershon Shaw. That's a mouthful, Bershawn Shaw.
There's two sahs there.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Yeah, Breshonshaw. You can find her on Instagram.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
She's a motivational speaker, a business coach, women's advocate. But
I wanted to have her on because I wanted to hear,
as you just heard about her journey having been diagnosed
with terminal stage four breast cancer that had metastasized, to
get to a place of health and vibrancy and share us,
share it with us all. Brashaan, are you completely cancer
(18:03):
free now? Well?
Speaker 4 (18:05):
Yeah, I mean they say once you're stage four because
it fantastasized, there's no such thing. My doctor believes that
cancer free is not the word. I am in remission.
She believes that, like you know, you're in remission. Everyone's
in remission once you have cancer. So yes, I am.
You know.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I often teach my students that we all have cancer
cells in our body at all times. We do, but
we also many people are very lucky enough to have
really good cancer fighting genes or strong immune systems to
be fighting it off as we go along. So it's like,
in a way, we're all we all have cancer.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
Yeah, because it's just cells that need tate, right, so
exactly all in our body. Yep. And so I'm considered
no evidence of disease.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Wonderful. That's the best news I heard today. Okay, so
let's get to it. What are some of the things.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
First of all, what are the things people most often
present to you as sort of you know, life problems
that they're looking for.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Your advice on.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
You know, the biggest thing is probably depression. Depression and loneliness.
Those are the two. And let me tell you what
I didn't tell you, doctor Wendy is from all of this.
I started an app, a mental health app called You
Are a Warrior.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
How does the app work?
Speaker 3 (19:27):
What does it do?
Speaker 4 (19:29):
So you spell it the letter you are a wa
R r io R. It's a community. It's people sharing
their warrior stories because we all have a story, whether
it's substance abuse, depression, anxiety, loneliness. People get on and share.
We have live coaches, we have AI Warrior coaches, and
(19:49):
we have daily motivation, all the things that healed me
and all the things that I needed to get better.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
So we are suffering from an epidemic of an epidemic
of isolation, and especially with gen Z. I saw statistic
recently that gen Z spends less than one thousand hours
a year actually talking to another human.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
All right, and oh wow.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
So the young people we really need to reach out
to more than anything. If you could give us some thoughts,
some of your wisdom on the best ways we can
treat whether we're somebody experiencing isolation or where somebody who
has some social support around us that needs to pull
more people into the tribe. What's some advice.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
You have, I would say, you know what, go and
have real fun with people. I know it's hard to
put the phone down. I know that is just, but
go and do some activities. Go bike riding together, go
bowling together, gen zs, go to a walk, go to
a dance party. Stop just being on your phone looking
(20:58):
on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, like snapchat, like, really, get to
know someone, go eat pizza together. Like that's my advice
because people are really suffering in silence and in order
to get over this we have to do the work,
we really do.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
It has to be on us.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
But I do want to say to people who do
have your regular group of friends and your family and
your neighbors, look around you. There are people at your work,
there are people in your exercise classes, there are people
at your church. There are people who don't have anybody,
and it's your job to bring them back to the
dinner table.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
You know, when I was a kid, you know, we
grew up.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Military in my household, and so we're always on navy bases.
And my mom, you know, it's like being a single
mom when you're a military wife because the guys are
all gone.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
And she had to get social support.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
So one place, when we moved to a new place,
she joined and adopt a grandmother program, which was so adorable.
We had this little lady over every Sunday for dinner,
and my mom would take her out a couple times
a week. She came to our school place, and you know,
she didn't have any family in town.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
And I thought, why don't we have stuff like this anymore?
Speaker 4 (22:12):
You know, I love that. I love that.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Isn't that great?
Speaker 4 (22:16):
What we need?
Speaker 2 (22:17):
We need adop to grand bear. Let's put that on
our app.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
If you're over seventy five and you want some young
people around you, join her app.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
We'll connect to you.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
Right, and let's talk.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
A little bit about wellness. You know it is Breast
cancer Awareness month. You are a miracle story, both a
medical miracle story and a mental health story. What advice
would you give people women specifically during Breast cancer Awareness Month?
Speaker 4 (22:47):
Check your boobies. Yeah, go and get mammograms. Don't be afraid. Right,
chancer is in a death sentence. Unless you want to
ignore things, don't do it. Go and check your breast,
but also understand your breast yourself. Just know your body.
(23:07):
Check it monthly. I do it. I raise my arm
in the shower and I check myself monthly. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
They say do it on your the day of the month,
that's your birthday, so you won't forget. So I'm April thirtieth,
So I do it on the thirtieth of every month.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
And that reminds me.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
I like that.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
Oh okay, I like that. Okay, okay, I'm going to
do it in twenty second. I like that. Yeah, so
you'll forget to check your breath and yeah, and know yourself.
That's so important.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
And there are certain populations. As a health psychology professor,
the research shows that certain populations African American women, Latino
women are less likely to go. Partly this is because
of economics and not having health insurance that will cover it.
But if people reach out, there is a free mammogram everywhere,
(23:54):
and is.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
A free mammogram everywhere? Yes, please repeat that, yes, yes, yes, And.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
I want to remind you that there is a cure
for cancer. It's called early detection. If you know, you're
a miracle story brashon. But if breast cancer is detected
at stage one, it's got like a ninety nine percent
recovery rate.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Does Yeah, we've made such advances.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
So it's really up to the public to women to
get out there and not be afraid of this kind
of information. And let's dispel some myths. Mammograms don't give
you radiation, they don't give you breast cancer.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
Okay, you're not right, they don't.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
You know, some people are afraid of the tests themselves, right, Yeah, you.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Won't, you won't.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
You also changed your diet enormously. What was your diet
like before you had were diagnosed with cancer?
Speaker 4 (24:51):
Well, you know, when you're young, you eat everything pizza, burgers, fries,
and you just think that you're invisible, nothing happens. But
you know, I gotta tell you eat Eating healthy just
makes me feel great. I eat berries, blueberries, blackberries, rasberries
every day. I juice, I eat veggies, salads. I mean,
(25:14):
it just really makes you feel good. And I don't
really drink. I don't drink anymore. Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Like I started to get nasty headaches and I drank
delicious wine my whole life. It's so so, I know.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
But as you get older, you're like, my house comes first.
So I don't really drink and I feel good every day.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Oh, we're so happy for you, Brashaan. I think it's
wonderful news. Can you give us information about where people
can find you and find out more about the app?
Speaker 4 (25:44):
Yes, thank you so on Instagram, LinkedIn everywhere you spell
my name b E R S h A N. That's
the first name, last name Shaw Shaw in the app.
It's in the app store, Google Store. But you got
to write it all together. That are you the letter?
Are the letter a warrior waror and it's everywhere right.
(26:09):
It's a community of support because we all have a
warrior story. I want a place where we can normalize
mental health and we can share and talk and get
and just get support. And that's what we're doing. We're
starting a You Are a Warrior movement.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
It's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
And you know what I tell my students is that
if you have this idea of the stigma around bad
mental health, you might have a believe in a mythology
that you're either quote unquote crazy or not, when actually
mental health is a lot like physical health. You can
get a cold, it can last a few days. We
call that situational depression, right, you can. I mean it's
(26:45):
not like literally, at any given time, probably twenty five
percent of the American public is experiencing some kind of
mental health issue.
Dr. Wendy Walsh on Demand News
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.