Dr. Wendy is talking to author, educator, and activist Tony Porter. He is co-founder of A CALL TO MEN and internationally recognized for his efforts to prevent violence against women while promoting a healthy, respectful, manhood. He has partnered up with Chispa, the Latin dating app where Latino & Latina singles can meet singles nearby. It's all on KFIAM-640!
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Doctor Wendy Walsh and you're listening to k
I AM six forty the Doctor Wendy wallsh Show on
demand on the iHeartRadio app. Welcome back to the Doctor
Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty live everywhere
on the iHeartRadio App. So, I want to speak to men,
and I want to speak to women who have men
in their lives. One of the most common complaints I
(00:22):
get from men is I'm on those dating apps, Dr Wendy,
but I'm not getting enough matches or the people the
women aren't responding to me. So the people at Cheezeba,
which is the largest dating app for Latin culture out
there and also for just making friends. It's a really
cool app because you're just you can just go on
(00:42):
there if you want to build community and meet friends.
They have partnered with a Call to Men to create
ten actionable steps that can help guys build eventually find
and build a trusting, respectful and passionate relationship. So let's
go through them because they make a lot of sense.
The first one is you hear it all the time,
(01:03):
be real, be authentic, just be yourself. Look, don't try
to create this dating profile of who you wish you were.
Make it as real as you can. That means make
sure your photos are recent and they they reflect who
you are today. And also share a picture of you
(01:24):
doing what you do in your life, whatever your hobby is.
I don't care if you're under a car working as
a mechanic, well, we'd like to see your face, not
just your feet. Whatever you do, whether you're a scuba dive,
whether you're a dog walker and have five dogs around
you when you want, whatever you like to do, whether
it's a family meal together with your extended family, we
(01:44):
want to see who you are for real. And also
I say this to women all the time, but I
think I have to say it to some men now.
Stop editing those photos so much, like just be real. Okay. Secondly,
I have always said this. I'm so glad they're saying
it too. One of the problems with dating apps is
it puts people who want short term relationships in the
same mating pool as people who want long term relationships.
(02:06):
It also puts cheaters in that same mating pool and
polyamorous people.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Whatever.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
If you want, happen to want a long term, committed,
healthy relationship and I'll use the example of heterosexual relationship.
This sort of applies. This certainly applies to gay relationships too.
Communicate your intentions clearly from the beginning, right, be upfront.
Write your relationship goals in your profile, saying looking for
(02:35):
something serious or exploring meaningful connections. You know what, my
sweet Julio, my husband wrote in his dating app profile.
He just wrote, I have been on a dramatic path
towards mindfulness and authenticity. Ooh, a man wrote those words.
It makes women swoon, all right. Number three respect consent
(02:59):
at every interaction. That means before acting, always ask, even
if it means sending a racy, spicy picture, make sure
you ask first, is it okay? If I sent you
a picture of my abs, I'm assuming that's all you're sending.
(03:19):
Do you have any interest in receiving this? Always don't
assume okay, avoid assumptions, and respect boundaries. If someone says
no or eh, you know you need to have an
enthusiastic yes yes, yes, with lots of exclamation marks, or
on the phone yes yes yes right. Number four, start
your conversations very thoughtfully. I know it's fun to just type, Hey,
(03:43):
what's up? How are you today. But I'm telling you,
women get hundreds of those texts on the dating apps.
They're so generic, they're not interesting, they're not thoughtful. So
ask questions that help you understand the person. Hey, what's
your favorite tradition or what's your favorite meal that always
(04:05):
makes you feel happy? And when you are in a
texting relationship, please guys, please listen closely. Do not answer
with one word. I know you may be juggling twenty
girls in your box, and if you are, please pair
it down to two and treat each of them as
a human being with respect, but no one word answers.
Also number five, reframe rejection as growth. Part of being
(04:28):
on the dating apps is learning how to gross an
alligator skin. You will be rejected, don't think of it
as being a loser, okay. In fact, compose a text
filled with gratitude even if you didn't get what you
wanted to hear. Say something like, thank you for your honesty,
or I appreciate your input, I'm grateful for your perspective,
(04:51):
have a nice day, nice chatting, Just keep it, take
that high road, Take the high road, and then ask yourself, huh,
what did I do or say that might have gotten
me rejected. Number six, balance tradition with respect. Now, the
dating app Chispa is talking to Latin men and they
say we often say la cutura cura. Culture heals. We
(05:15):
know that community and shared tradition can create bonds unbreakable bonds,
but cultural expectations depending on your culture can also hold
some people back because they may have traditional gender roles
stuck in their head. Right, So be honest about the
things that you're proud of about your culture. But don't
assume that a woman you're talking to is a quote
(05:37):
unquote traditional woman just because she's a LATINX woman.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Right.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
And number seven celebrate vulnerability. Right, It's okay, as Tony
Porter said, to be real and authentic and talk about
your fears and as much as your joys. Right, share
a personal story, get personal about something that reflects who
you are, but a relationship that's really important in your life.
(06:03):
And also practice active listening. When people tell it disclosed
things to you, say thanks for sharing that, or I
can relate. Right, And I got to say this to everybody.
Please practice good digital etiquette. Limit. If you're really into somebody,
don't barrage them with twenty messages. Please be cool. Be cool,
(06:25):
avoid spamming, wait till they respond back, respect response times,
don't pressure. Keep all your messages polite and considerate, even
though you might not get the respect the response that
you want. Look for shared values right, share stories about
your family traditions, Use photos as I mentioned earlier, that
(06:46):
reflect who you really are, your lifestyle, your community. Ask
as many questions as anything else. And finally, everybody who's
on dating apps enjoy the process and make sure the
people you're interacting with also have an enjoyable time. Look,
it's a bit of an endurance test. Okay, you're going
to be swiping and swiping, You're going to be matching
(07:06):
and not hearing from people. Don't take it personally, move on,
grow that alligator skin. If you feel too exhausted on
the dating apps, take a break. You're listening to the
Doctor Wendy Wall Show on KFI AM six forty live
everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI
AM six forty Welcome back to the.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Dr Wendy Wall Show on KFI AM six forty live
everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. Well, I told you he
was coming. I teased it, I promised it. I have
the official, the real Yes, Tony Porter here from a
Call to Men. Tony, thanks so much for being with us.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Thank you, doctor Wendy for having me.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
I'm going to embarrass you because I'm going to read
a little bit of a resume in case there are
people out there who have not heard your name. I
think they're two living under a rock somewhere in the world.
So here we go. Tony Porter is an author, educator,
and activist who works on many social justice issues. He
founded an organization of called A Call to Men that
helps promote healthy, respectful manhood. I love that and many
(08:17):
men look up to him. He is a consultant for
the National Football League, the NBA, the NHL, Major League Soccer,
and even has talked at West Point and around the world.
If you have not seen his Ted talk, it is amazing.
Look him up Tony Porter, and it's one of the
top ten Ted talks every man should see. He's the
(08:39):
author of the book Breaking Out of the Man Box.
Thanks so much again for being here. Let's talk about
why you think this topic is so important right now.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Well, it's important for many reasons. Right now as we
go into the future as men, you know, we continue
to have an epidemical violence against women and girls here
in the United States of America, has stated by the
Center for Disease Control. We know that fifty of excuse me,
(09:10):
thirty percent of women who are killed or killed by
their husband, boyfriend, or partner. We know that we live,
unfortunately in a rape culture. We know that one out
of four women will be sexually assaulted during her four
years in college. So when you think about violence against
(09:31):
women and girls, and while the majority of men don't
perpetrate the violence, the problem is we're silent to the
violence and it's happening on our watch. And it's related
to what we call the man box that are called
to men, the collective socialization of manhood, as men were
taught collectively to have less value in women, to view
(09:53):
women as the property of men, and to view women
as objects, particularly sexual objects. And again, while most men
don't perpetrate this violence, with silent to the violence, and
that's a huge problem.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
You know, you mentioned these statistics about sexual violence, rape assault.
I've been very open in my many years doing media
that I am a survivor of domestic violence, and I
want to tell everybody that it crosses all social, racial,
and economic lines. In fact, we probably hear less about
(10:28):
the domestic violence that happens in higher socioeconomic households because
the walls are thicker, the lawns are stretched out, their
neighbors aren't hearing the screaming, etc. And they're less reportable
because of the social shame around it all. But I
just want to say to any woman who's out there
who may be listening, is that this is never your fault,
(10:49):
and it happens to twenty five percent of women. One
in four women will experience domestic violence in their lifetime,
and there's nothing you can do to prevent it. This
is what Tony Porter is doing with his organization A
Call to Men, which is helping to get men to
stop this problem. Tell me about forming the organization A
(11:10):
Call to Men? When and why did you create it?
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Created twenty three years ago myself and the other co founder,
Ted Bunch, We were both working with men who were abusive,
and what we realized is what we were talking to
teaching and engaging men who were abusive, and these are
men who were sent to us by the courts the
time we were spending with them and the things we
were talking to them about. We realized we needed to
(11:35):
talk to all men about this information, that it wasn't
just the men who were abusive that were the problem.
In essence, we all had a hand in it through
our silence. So it was by way of that that
we decided to start a call to men to no
longer just work with men who were abusive, but to
work with all men.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
So what can those other men do? What do you
suggest with their if they break out from their silence?
Is it about when they hear something or see something,
how should they react?
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Well, that's part of it, you know. Part of it
is how we react in the presence of violence. But
equally important to our work at a call to men
is preventing the violence going upstream and prevent the violence
from happening at all. And that really speaks to the
teaching of men, boys what it means to be a man,
(12:32):
and reteaching ourselves is men, what we've been taught that
it means to be a man. Again, we've been taught
to have less value. We've been taught women and the
property of men. We have been taught women the objects,
particularly sexual objects. Is the reteaching of what it means
to be a man, this collective socialization of manhood. So
(12:53):
our work is really rooted around preventing the violence.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
So what are the hallmarks of healthy manhood in your mind?
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Well? And yet, and before I even share about that,
these same rigid notions of masculinity, they're not only fostering
this epidemic of violence against women and girls, they're hurting
men as well and men. So so much of what
we're taught that it means to be a man is
men don't ask for help. That asking for help is
(13:23):
a sign of weakness. That's fostering an epidemic of issues
with we as men as well. Be it our mental health,
be it our physical health. This inability to ask for
help as men. And you couple that with the lack
of emotional intelligence we have because as men, we're taught
to shut down our feelings and emotions at a very
(13:44):
early age. The only emotion we give each other permission
to express is anger. So we have a lack of
emotional intelligence and this inability to ask for help. When
you put that together, you can see the mental health
challenges it's created for we as men. We know that
approximately six million men every year go undiagnosed with anxiety
(14:05):
and depression. We know men complete suicide four times that
the rate of women. We know men don't practice preventative
health care medicine. We know that men who are partners
are actually healthier than men who are single, and it
really has nothing to do with the man is more
about that partner in his life. So this thing around
(14:28):
help being taught that help is a sign of weakness
is really killing us as men. So the things that
we're talking about right now and not only fostering an
epidemical violence against women and girls, they're also hurting men
as well. So when you ask about what are some
healthy masculinity, healthy manhood solutions, one is embracing our full
(14:52):
range of emotions. That is okay not to just talk
about anger, but to talk about fear, to talk about pain.
As men, we talk about the importance of valuing women
in our lives and that women are not the property
of men. To stop using denigrating language and as such
as it relates to women, to challenge harmful messages in
(15:14):
respect to gender, all right, that is okay to have
an interest in the experience of women and girls and
now particularly teaching this ole boys that it's okay to
have an interest in the experience of women and girls
in sexual conquests is not a goal. And of course,
as I mentioned, asking for help is not a sign
of weakness, is actually a sign of strength.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Tony Porter, we got to go to a break, Tony
Porter of a call to men. When we come back,
I want to talk about how our culture is finally
starting to spread. Your message from Ted Lasso to comedian
Bill Burr will touch on it, as well as your
partnership with the biggest Latino dating app. When we come back.
You're listening to The Doctor Wendy Well Show on KFI
AM six forty Live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI
AM six forty.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy Wall Show on KFI
AM six forty Live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. This
is the home stretch of the Doctor Wendy wallsh Show.
I'm here for you every Sunday from seven to nine pm.
It's always my pleasure to weigh in on your romantic life.
My guest, Tony Porter, founder of a call to men
has been teaching healthy manhood for decades. I don't know
(16:31):
if you've seen Tony. Last night, I watched a new
Netflix comedy special by the comedian Bill Burr, who is
a normally loud, raunchy, angry comedian, and he talked about
how the death of his friend caused him to start
to connect with his wife and eventually his feelings. And
he talks about how the only two emotions men are
(16:52):
allowed to feel are fine and angry, and when he
actually sat with these feelings wrapped in a blanket, how
much better he felt just by allowing himself to experience it.
I also noticed ted Lasso just got picked up for
a third season, and that certainly is one TV series
that's working to break out, helping many men athletes in
(17:14):
that show break out of the man box. Do you
think our culture is finally hearing what you've been screaming
from the mountaintops for a few decades.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
You know, we're having some wonderful examples of that. You
gave two and both examples you gave. Also, I know
we're going to talk about CHIS, but the dating app
for the LATINX community. What we're trying to do at
a call to men. And again, the examples you gave
are excellent examples of using culture to impact culture. Right that,
(17:48):
of course we can teach them in school and other places,
but using what's out there already that people are really
invested in and making use up and it's not going anywhere.
By the way, how do we use culture to impact culture?
So when we find it an entertainment committee and places
like that is very very helpful. There's a new Netflix
(18:10):
mini series called Adolescence. I believe that really really leans
into what we're teaching boys about what it means to
be a man and many of the challenges that comes
with that.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I'm glad that's happening. I notice you use the term
the man box, and of course the famous international study
called the man Box I teach in my developmental psychology class.
What I find interesting is that you have partnered with Chiesba,
which is the largest Latino dating app, to help men
of a certain culture break out of their own version
(18:46):
of the man box. What is the man box and
what do Latin Why do many Latin men feel more
trapped in it?
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Yeah, in the Latin community call it machiese mo and
I got to be honest with you. I don't culturally
believe that LATINX men are more tracked in it than
other men. I believe each cultural group has their examples
of it, and we're all caught up in it. In
that box, men are taught to be tough, strong, courageous. Again,
(19:20):
less value in women, women as a property. Men don't
share their feelings or emotions. You know that you can
only be heterosexual as a man. You can't be gay, queer,
any of the likes. Men must always be in control.
There's no space for vulnerability. Again, the only emotion that
(19:40):
we can express is anger. We have to be aggressive,
show no weakness, no fear. Young men today talk about
that you can't be soft as men. So there's a
lot of in this box. The ingredients in this box
in many respects are holding us hostage, and we as
(20:01):
men are the ones that primarily hold each other Opposite
to the box. And what's really key in this box,
it leads very very little space for men to be
their authentic selves. We have to be a role self
versus our whole self.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Before we go Tony Porter, I've got to ask you.
I know you have spoken to the most masculine groups
of men on the planet, from the NFL to West Point.
How has our current political climate impacted your work here
in America?
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Well, you know, our political climate is really not much
different than whether we're talking about sports organization or other
spaces men men where you find men, where we congregate.
You know, we take a couple of steps forward, we
take a couple of steps back. That's the work of
social justice, social movement work. You know. The political climbate
(21:00):
just another example of the work that's in front of
us as men to do well.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
I want you to keep up with the good work
that you're doing. Earlier in the show tonight, I was
talking about the World Happiness Report that just came out
and that America has sunk out of the top twenty
down to twenty four, and those Nordic countries are way
there at the top. And you know, my daughter spent
some time studying in Sweden, and I visited her a
(21:27):
couple times, and I was amazed to see how many tattooed,
muscly bearded men were wearing babies around and hanging out
in groups of guys changing diapers and coffee shops. And
I realized it was partly because of what the government
there does. They make both partners share in the time
off and get paid for parental leave. It's not called
(21:50):
maternity leave, it's parental leave, and both partners have to
take a piece of it. Do you think we'll ever
get that there in America?
Speaker 3 (21:58):
We might not be where there are, but we have
examples of it. I mean, I remember the time when
we didn't have changing stations in men's bathrooms. We have
those today. We have, you know, the backsacks and front
sacks that men use carrying I see it's not abnormal
to see men moving around the country with a baby
on their front or a baby on their back. We
(22:20):
have those, you know, we have our examples of those.
You might find some countries, of course, that are further
along the game than we are, but we're in it
as men. We work a lot with men and fatherhood
programs and where men are really learning how to not
just coach our children, but to nurse our children, and
(22:41):
to love our children, and the importance of being loving
with our children and not just coaching them. We have
and we have paternity leave here in our country for men.
I just had a staff member that was just on
a male identified staff member that was just on three
months fraternity leave. And so we we have our examples
of it. Some countries maybe further along in some countries
(23:04):
are not quite where we are. But I've been doing
this work for twenty plus years. I'm blessed to have
seen some examples, many examples of change just taking place here.
And I've spent many places abroad and so in other
places as well.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Tony Porter, a pleasure to meet you, founder of a
Call to Men. Thank you for being with us. Hey,
if you want to keep learning about dating, mating and relating,
all based in science, please follow me on my social
media at dr Wendy Walsh at doctor Wendy Walsh, Instagram, TikTok,
I'm everywhere and YouTube. Hey, that brings a Doctor Wendywall's
(23:47):
show to a close. It's always my pleasure to be
with you every Sunday night. As I mentioned, follow me
on my social media. If you're not already, thanks for
being here. You've been listening to the Doctor Wendy Wall
Show on KFI Am six forty live everywhere on the
iHeartRadio app. You've been listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh. You
can always hear us live on KFI Am six forty
(24:08):
from seven to nine pm on Sunday, and anytime on
demand on the iHeartRadio app.
This is Doctor Wendy Walsh and you're listening to k
I AM six forty the Doctor Wendy wallsh Show on
demand on the iHeartRadio app. Welcome back to the Doctor
Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty live everywhere
on the iHeartRadio App. So, I want to speak to men,
and I want to speak to women who have men
in their lives. One of the most common complaints I
(00:22):
get from men is I'm on those dating apps, Dr Wendy,
but I'm not getting enough matches or the people the
women aren't responding to me. So the people at Cheezeba,
which is the largest dating app for Latin culture out
there and also for just making friends. It's a really
cool app because you're just you can just go on
(00:42):
there if you want to build community and meet friends.
They have partnered with a Call to Men to create
ten actionable steps that can help guys build eventually find
and build a trusting, respectful and passionate relationship. So let's
go through them because they make a lot of sense.
The first one is you hear it all the time,
(01:03):
be real, be authentic, just be yourself. Look, don't try
to create this dating profile of who you wish you were.
Make it as real as you can. That means make
sure your photos are recent and they they reflect who
you are today. And also share a picture of you
(01:24):
doing what you do in your life, whatever your hobby is.
I don't care if you're under a car working as
a mechanic, well, we'd like to see your face, not
just your feet. Whatever you do, whether you're a scuba dive,
whether you're a dog walker and have five dogs around
you when you want, whatever you like to do, whether
it's a family meal together with your extended family, we
(01:44):
want to see who you are for real. And also
I say this to women all the time, but I
think I have to say it to some men now.
Stop editing those photos so much, like just be real. Okay. Secondly,
I have always said this. I'm so glad they're saying
it too. One of the problems with dating apps is
it puts people who want short term relationships in the
same mating pool as people who want long term relationships.
(02:06):
It also puts cheaters in that same mating pool and
polyamorous people.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Whatever.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
If you want, happen to want a long term, committed,
healthy relationship and I'll use the example of heterosexual relationship.
This sort of applies. This certainly applies to gay relationships too.
Communicate your intentions clearly from the beginning, right, be upfront.
Write your relationship goals in your profile, saying looking for
(02:35):
something serious or exploring meaningful connections. You know what, my
sweet Julio, my husband wrote in his dating app profile.
He just wrote, I have been on a dramatic path
towards mindfulness and authenticity. Ooh, a man wrote those words.
It makes women swoon, all right. Number three respect consent
(02:59):
at every interaction. That means before acting, always ask, even
if it means sending a racy, spicy picture, make sure
you ask first, is it okay? If I sent you
a picture of my abs, I'm assuming that's all you're sending.
(03:19):
Do you have any interest in receiving this? Always don't
assume okay, avoid assumptions, and respect boundaries. If someone says
no or eh, you know you need to have an
enthusiastic yes yes, yes, with lots of exclamation marks, or
on the phone yes yes yes right. Number four, start
your conversations very thoughtfully. I know it's fun to just type, Hey,
(03:43):
what's up? How are you today. But I'm telling you,
women get hundreds of those texts on the dating apps.
They're so generic, they're not interesting, they're not thoughtful. So
ask questions that help you understand the person. Hey, what's
your favorite tradition or what's your favorite meal that always
(04:05):
makes you feel happy? And when you are in a
texting relationship, please guys, please listen closely. Do not answer
with one word. I know you may be juggling twenty
girls in your box, and if you are, please pair
it down to two and treat each of them as
a human being with respect, but no one word answers.
Also number five, reframe rejection as growth. Part of being
(04:28):
on the dating apps is learning how to gross an
alligator skin. You will be rejected, don't think of it
as being a loser, okay. In fact, compose a text
filled with gratitude even if you didn't get what you
wanted to hear. Say something like, thank you for your honesty,
or I appreciate your input, I'm grateful for your perspective,
(04:51):
have a nice day, nice chatting, Just keep it, take
that high road, Take the high road, and then ask yourself, huh,
what did I do or say that might have gotten
me rejected. Number six, balance tradition with respect. Now, the
dating app Chispa is talking to Latin men and they
say we often say la cutura cura. Culture heals. We
(05:15):
know that community and shared tradition can create bonds unbreakable bonds,
but cultural expectations depending on your culture can also hold
some people back because they may have traditional gender roles
stuck in their head. Right, So be honest about the
things that you're proud of about your culture. But don't
assume that a woman you're talking to is a quote
(05:37):
unquote traditional woman just because she's a LATINX woman.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Right.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
And number seven celebrate vulnerability. Right, It's okay, as Tony
Porter said, to be real and authentic and talk about
your fears and as much as your joys. Right, share
a personal story, get personal about something that reflects who
you are, but a relationship that's really important in your life.
(06:03):
And also practice active listening. When people tell it disclosed
things to you, say thanks for sharing that, or I
can relate. Right, And I got to say this to everybody.
Please practice good digital etiquette. Limit. If you're really into somebody,
don't barrage them with twenty messages. Please be cool. Be cool,
(06:25):
avoid spamming, wait till they respond back, respect response times,
don't pressure. Keep all your messages polite and considerate, even
though you might not get the respect the response that
you want. Look for shared values right, share stories about
your family traditions, Use photos as I mentioned earlier, that
(06:46):
reflect who you really are, your lifestyle, your community. Ask
as many questions as anything else. And finally, everybody who's
on dating apps enjoy the process and make sure the
people you're interacting with also have an enjoyable time. Look,
it's a bit of an endurance test. Okay, you're going
to be swiping and swiping, You're going to be matching
(07:06):
and not hearing from people. Don't take it personally, move on,
grow that alligator skin. If you feel too exhausted on
the dating apps, take a break. You're listening to the
Doctor Wendy Wall Show on KFI AM six forty live
everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI
AM six forty Welcome back to the.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Dr Wendy Wall Show on KFI AM six forty live
everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. Well, I told you he
was coming. I teased it, I promised it. I have
the official, the real Yes, Tony Porter here from a
Call to Men. Tony, thanks so much for being with us.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Thank you, doctor Wendy for having me.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
I'm going to embarrass you because I'm going to read
a little bit of a resume in case there are
people out there who have not heard your name. I
think they're two living under a rock somewhere in the world.
So here we go. Tony Porter is an author, educator,
and activist who works on many social justice issues. He
founded an organization of called A Call to Men that
helps promote healthy, respectful manhood. I love that and many
(08:17):
men look up to him. He is a consultant for
the National Football League, the NBA, the NHL, Major League Soccer,
and even has talked at West Point and around the world.
If you have not seen his Ted talk, it is amazing.
Look him up Tony Porter, and it's one of the
top ten Ted talks every man should see. He's the
(08:39):
author of the book Breaking Out of the Man Box.
Thanks so much again for being here. Let's talk about
why you think this topic is so important right now.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Well, it's important for many reasons. Right now as we
go into the future as men, you know, we continue
to have an epidemical violence against women and girls here
in the United States of America, has stated by the
Center for Disease Control. We know that fifty of excuse me,
(09:10):
thirty percent of women who are killed or killed by
their husband, boyfriend, or partner. We know that we live,
unfortunately in a rape culture. We know that one out
of four women will be sexually assaulted during her four
years in college. So when you think about violence against
(09:31):
women and girls, and while the majority of men don't
perpetrate the violence, the problem is we're silent to the
violence and it's happening on our watch. And it's related
to what we call the man box that are called
to men, the collective socialization of manhood, as men were
taught collectively to have less value in women, to view
(09:53):
women as the property of men, and to view women
as objects, particularly sexual objects. And again, while most men
don't perpetrate this violence, with silent to the violence, and
that's a huge problem.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
You know, you mentioned these statistics about sexual violence, rape assault.
I've been very open in my many years doing media
that I am a survivor of domestic violence, and I
want to tell everybody that it crosses all social, racial,
and economic lines. In fact, we probably hear less about
(10:28):
the domestic violence that happens in higher socioeconomic households because
the walls are thicker, the lawns are stretched out, their
neighbors aren't hearing the screaming, etc. And they're less reportable
because of the social shame around it all. But I
just want to say to any woman who's out there
who may be listening, is that this is never your fault,
(10:49):
and it happens to twenty five percent of women. One
in four women will experience domestic violence in their lifetime,
and there's nothing you can do to prevent it. This
is what Tony Porter is doing with his organization A
Call to Men, which is helping to get men to
stop this problem. Tell me about forming the organization A
(11:10):
Call to Men? When and why did you create it?
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Created twenty three years ago myself and the other co founder,
Ted Bunch, We were both working with men who were abusive,
and what we realized is what we were talking to
teaching and engaging men who were abusive, and these are
men who were sent to us by the courts the
time we were spending with them and the things we
were talking to them about. We realized we needed to
(11:35):
talk to all men about this information, that it wasn't
just the men who were abusive that were the problem.
In essence, we all had a hand in it through
our silence. So it was by way of that that
we decided to start a call to men to no
longer just work with men who were abusive, but to
work with all men.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
So what can those other men do? What do you
suggest with their if they break out from their silence?
Is it about when they hear something or see something,
how should they react?
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Well, that's part of it, you know. Part of it
is how we react in the presence of violence. But
equally important to our work at a call to men
is preventing the violence going upstream and prevent the violence
from happening at all. And that really speaks to the
teaching of men, boys what it means to be a man,
(12:32):
and reteaching ourselves is men, what we've been taught that
it means to be a man. Again, we've been taught
to have less value. We've been taught women and the
property of men. We have been taught women the objects,
particularly sexual objects. Is the reteaching of what it means
to be a man, this collective socialization of manhood. So
(12:53):
our work is really rooted around preventing the violence.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
So what are the hallmarks of healthy manhood in your mind?
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Well? And yet, and before I even share about that,
these same rigid notions of masculinity, they're not only fostering
this epidemic of violence against women and girls, they're hurting
men as well and men. So so much of what
we're taught that it means to be a man is
men don't ask for help. That asking for help is
(13:23):
a sign of weakness. That's fostering an epidemic of issues
with we as men as well. Be it our mental health,
be it our physical health. This inability to ask for
help as men. And you couple that with the lack
of emotional intelligence we have because as men, we're taught
to shut down our feelings and emotions at a very
(13:44):
early age. The only emotion we give each other permission
to express is anger. So we have a lack of
emotional intelligence and this inability to ask for help. When
you put that together, you can see the mental health
challenges it's created for we as men. We know that
approximately six million men every year go undiagnosed with anxiety
(14:05):
and depression. We know men complete suicide four times that
the rate of women. We know men don't practice preventative
health care medicine. We know that men who are partners
are actually healthier than men who are single, and it
really has nothing to do with the man is more
about that partner in his life. So this thing around
(14:28):
help being taught that help is a sign of weakness
is really killing us as men. So the things that
we're talking about right now and not only fostering an
epidemical violence against women and girls, they're also hurting men
as well. So when you ask about what are some
healthy masculinity, healthy manhood solutions, one is embracing our full
(14:52):
range of emotions. That is okay not to just talk
about anger, but to talk about fear, to talk about pain.
As men, we talk about the importance of valuing women
in our lives and that women are not the property
of men. To stop using denigrating language and as such
as it relates to women, to challenge harmful messages in
(15:14):
respect to gender, all right, that is okay to have
an interest in the experience of women and girls and
now particularly teaching this ole boys that it's okay to
have an interest in the experience of women and girls
in sexual conquests is not a goal. And of course,
as I mentioned, asking for help is not a sign
of weakness, is actually a sign of strength.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Tony Porter, we got to go to a break, Tony
Porter of a call to men. When we come back,
I want to talk about how our culture is finally
starting to spread. Your message from Ted Lasso to comedian
Bill Burr will touch on it, as well as your
partnership with the biggest Latino dating app. When we come back.
You're listening to The Doctor Wendy Well Show on KFI
AM six forty Live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI
AM six forty.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy Wall Show on KFI
AM six forty Live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. This
is the home stretch of the Doctor Wendy wallsh Show.
I'm here for you every Sunday from seven to nine pm.
It's always my pleasure to weigh in on your romantic life.
My guest, Tony Porter, founder of a call to men
has been teaching healthy manhood for decades. I don't know
(16:31):
if you've seen Tony. Last night, I watched a new
Netflix comedy special by the comedian Bill Burr, who is
a normally loud, raunchy, angry comedian, and he talked about
how the death of his friend caused him to start
to connect with his wife and eventually his feelings. And
he talks about how the only two emotions men are
(16:52):
allowed to feel are fine and angry, and when he
actually sat with these feelings wrapped in a blanket, how
much better he felt just by allowing himself to experience it.
I also noticed ted Lasso just got picked up for
a third season, and that certainly is one TV series
that's working to break out, helping many men athletes in
(17:14):
that show break out of the man box. Do you
think our culture is finally hearing what you've been screaming
from the mountaintops for a few decades.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
You know, we're having some wonderful examples of that. You
gave two and both examples you gave. Also, I know
we're going to talk about CHIS, but the dating app
for the LATINX community. What we're trying to do at
a call to men. And again, the examples you gave
are excellent examples of using culture to impact culture. Right that,
(17:48):
of course we can teach them in school and other places,
but using what's out there already that people are really
invested in and making use up and it's not going anywhere.
By the way, how do we use culture to impact culture?
So when we find it an entertainment committee and places
like that is very very helpful. There's a new Netflix
(18:10):
mini series called Adolescence. I believe that really really leans
into what we're teaching boys about what it means to
be a man and many of the challenges that comes
with that.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I'm glad that's happening. I notice you use the term
the man box, and of course the famous international study
called the man Box I teach in my developmental psychology class.
What I find interesting is that you have partnered with Chiesba,
which is the largest Latino dating app, to help men
of a certain culture break out of their own version
(18:46):
of the man box. What is the man box and
what do Latin Why do many Latin men feel more
trapped in it?
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Yeah, in the Latin community call it machiese mo and
I got to be honest with you. I don't culturally
believe that LATINX men are more tracked in it than
other men. I believe each cultural group has their examples
of it, and we're all caught up in it. In
that box, men are taught to be tough, strong, courageous. Again,
(19:20):
less value in women, women as a property. Men don't
share their feelings or emotions. You know that you can
only be heterosexual as a man. You can't be gay, queer,
any of the likes. Men must always be in control.
There's no space for vulnerability. Again, the only emotion that
(19:40):
we can express is anger. We have to be aggressive,
show no weakness, no fear. Young men today talk about
that you can't be soft as men. So there's a
lot of in this box. The ingredients in this box
in many respects are holding us hostage, and we as
(20:01):
men are the ones that primarily hold each other Opposite
to the box. And what's really key in this box,
it leads very very little space for men to be
their authentic selves. We have to be a role self
versus our whole self.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Before we go Tony Porter, I've got to ask you.
I know you have spoken to the most masculine groups
of men on the planet, from the NFL to West Point.
How has our current political climate impacted your work here
in America?
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Well, you know, our political climate is really not much
different than whether we're talking about sports organization or other
spaces men men where you find men, where we congregate.
You know, we take a couple of steps forward, we
take a couple of steps back. That's the work of
social justice, social movement work. You know. The political climbate
(21:00):
just another example of the work that's in front of
us as men to do well.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
I want you to keep up with the good work
that you're doing. Earlier in the show tonight, I was
talking about the World Happiness Report that just came out
and that America has sunk out of the top twenty
down to twenty four, and those Nordic countries are way
there at the top. And you know, my daughter spent
some time studying in Sweden, and I visited her a
(21:27):
couple times, and I was amazed to see how many tattooed,
muscly bearded men were wearing babies around and hanging out
in groups of guys changing diapers and coffee shops. And
I realized it was partly because of what the government
there does. They make both partners share in the time
off and get paid for parental leave. It's not called
(21:50):
maternity leave, it's parental leave, and both partners have to
take a piece of it. Do you think we'll ever
get that there in America?
Speaker 3 (21:58):
We might not be where there are, but we have
examples of it. I mean, I remember the time when
we didn't have changing stations in men's bathrooms. We have
those today. We have, you know, the backsacks and front
sacks that men use carrying I see it's not abnormal
to see men moving around the country with a baby
on their front or a baby on their back. We
(22:20):
have those, you know, we have our examples of those.
You might find some countries, of course, that are further
along the game than we are, but we're in it
as men. We work a lot with men and fatherhood
programs and where men are really learning how to not
just coach our children, but to nurse our children, and
(22:41):
to love our children, and the importance of being loving
with our children and not just coaching them. We have
and we have paternity leave here in our country for men.
I just had a staff member that was just on
a male identified staff member that was just on three
months fraternity leave. And so we we have our examples
of it. Some countries maybe further along in some countries
(23:04):
are not quite where we are. But I've been doing
this work for twenty plus years. I'm blessed to have
seen some examples, many examples of change just taking place here.
And I've spent many places abroad and so in other
places as well.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Tony Porter, a pleasure to meet you, founder of a
Call to Men. Thank you for being with us. Hey,
if you want to keep learning about dating, mating and relating,
all based in science, please follow me on my social
media at dr Wendy Walsh at doctor Wendy Walsh, Instagram, TikTok,
I'm everywhere and YouTube. Hey, that brings a Doctor Wendywall's
(23:47):
show to a close. It's always my pleasure to be
with you every Sunday night. As I mentioned, follow me
on my social media. If you're not already, thanks for
being here. You've been listening to the Doctor Wendy Wall
Show on KFI Am six forty live everywhere on the
iHeartRadio app. You've been listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh. You
can always hear us live on KFI Am six forty
(24:08):
from seven to nine pm on Sunday, and anytime on
demand on the iHeartRadio app.
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