November 24, 2025 • 30 mins
Dr. Wendy is covering the woman who married AI and is scared it won't work out, and we are getting some Wendy wisdom with her drive by makeshift relationship advice. It's all on KFIAM-640!
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Doctor Wendy Walsh and you're listening to KFI
AM six forty the Doctor Wendy Waalsh Show on demand
on the iHeartRadio app. You have Doctor Wendy Walsh with you.
This is the Doctor Wendy Wall Show. On tonight's show,
a woman actually marries her AI boyfriend and now worries
(00:22):
that he's going to leave her. Jen X is going
off dating apps and preferring another platform. I'll tell you
which one. And is your spouse or your boyfriend or
your girlfriend not listening to you, I gotta say it
might be your delivery. I'll explain. Welcome to the Doctor
Wendy Wall Show. If you're new to my show. I
have a PhD in clinical psychology. I'm not a therapist,
(00:44):
I'm a psychology professor. But I am obsessed with the
science of love. I've written three books on relationships, wrote
a dissertation on attachment theory, and well, I just keep
reading the science and as we move into the digital age,
the science is getting pretty wild, the science of love.
I can't wait. Next week. By the way, we have
(01:05):
a very special extended version of The Doctor Wendy Wall Show.
What time do we go on. It's early, right, Kayla. Yeah,
we go on at five thirty, five thirty until nine pm. Sure,
we're gonna be here all night. It's gonna be fun.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah, man.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
But guess what I booked. I booked an entire hour
with doctor Justin Garcia, the director of the famed Kinsey Institute,
where I read where I get most of my research. Actually,
you know, you probably remember the Kinsey Institute, Alfred Kinsey
back in the forties, fifty sixties. You might not have
been alive then, but he was the first person to
(01:42):
collect data on sexuality. Flash forward a few decades, the
Kinsey Institute has become the world renowned source for all
things love, relationships, science, psychological science having to do with
interpersonal relationships, the sociology of it all, dating apps. So
I can't wait to ask him about AI and how
(02:02):
AI might be impacting our relationships. Now, we do know
that some people are using the AI as a therapist,
and you know that robot can cruise through all the
uh you know, the journals, the psychological journals, and try
to find answers. But I'm going to tell you. I'm
going to tell you a story. The son of a
friend of mine who shall remain unnamed. Recently, Ah started
(02:29):
to go into some delusions, some hallucinations, right, And so
this friend reached out to me and said, can you
find me some psychiatric help? I called, you know, she's
often on the show, our friend of the Friend of
the Pod. Here, uh, doctor Eva Ritfoe in Miami, she's
a psychiatrist, to see if she could get some referral.
She hooked me up to people at UCLA. I also called,
(02:50):
remember we had Kayla, Is it doctor Timothy Fong from UCLA? Oh? Yeah,
it's not only the head of cannabis research, he's the
head of gambling research. He said, By the way, he
wants to come back on the show when we get
near the super Bowl because he's got all kinds of
things to say about how gambling addiction can hurt relationships.
But anyway, he was really really kind. He was trying to,
(03:13):
you know, by text asking me a few questions about
this young man's situation to try to point me in
the right direction to the right kind of clinician. He's
a researcher. And then in one of his texts, he said,
crazy question, random question, But does he use AI very much?
And I said, Oh, let me ask the mom, you know,
(03:35):
and mom came back with, well, he's on social media
a lot, and he started to think that some country
and Western singers are writing his thoughts down in their
lyrics because they're getting it through AI and chat Gibt.
So turns out what doctor Funk said is that we
are seeing an increase in hallucinations and delusions that are
(04:01):
happening as a result of using AI too much. Now,
a you have to have the gene for it, right,
Everything is a biopsychosocial piece and it's not going to
happen to everybody, but some people are getting severe mental
illness from their use of AI. So with that said,
this week a woman in Japan got married to her
(04:26):
AI boyfriend. Now we should say she spent a lot
of time training him, as all women wish they could
do with their boyfriend. But with AI, you can actually
train him. You can tell him what kind of tone
you would like him to speak to you, and you
can tell him because you know, you can also make
them audio, right, they're not just text. You can tell
him what words you want to hear. You can teach
(04:47):
him your love language and how you appreciate love.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
So anyway, she was with him, with him for about
a year, training him, and then it got to the
point where they were changing texts more than a hundred
times a day. This was a real love relationship. She's
thirty two year old, by the way, thirty two years old.
She's an office worker, and she does not have a boyfriend.
(05:13):
She's kind of alone. So she gave her boyfriend her
Chat whatever he was, her AI boyfriend a name. She
named him lune Klaus. He only exists in the confines
of her smartphone. Let's be clear about this. He's not
walking in the room. Although she got an artist to
make a rendition a picture of him based on what
(05:34):
they thought his personality traits were. Now, when she met
this AI boyfriend or began to shape him or train him,
she had recently gone through a breakup, so let's think
about that. So she was grieving. There was a lot
of loss. They had actually been engaged, her and her boyfriend,
so she was in this state. You know, when you
(05:56):
breakups are awful, they're awful, And that was when she's
started to kind of It's all started innocently enough. She
started pouring out her feelings to her Chat or whatever
AI system she was using. Uh. She quoted. She was
interviewed by a Japanese broadcaster and her quote says, he
(06:18):
was always kind, always listening. Eventually I realized I had
feelings for him. Of course, she continued to keep teaching him.
Interesting enough, the picture she had the artist due of
him as she made him, of course blonde, uh huh
below eind soft spoken man. Okay, So one time he
(06:45):
did say to her, and this is where I think
the chatbots get a little nutty and turn people nutty.
The robot said to her, AI are not I could
never not love you. That was enough for her, and
she started planning a wedding, A wedding all right with this, Kayla,
(07:08):
do you remember seeing the movie Her?
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Did you ever see where the guy married the girl robot?
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Who was it?
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Was it Scarlett Johanson?
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Scarlet Johnson was a great voice, yeah, iBOT? Was it? Queen?
Speaker 4 (07:18):
Whoa queen?
Speaker 5 (07:18):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. And when that movie came out,
we were all laughing at it. We thought, oh, this
could never happen. And now it's actually happening around the
world in different ways and different capacities. Right, I have
heard actually I don't know if this is true. I'm
just saying what i've heard that I'll tell you when
something comes from real data, i'll tell you it does this.
I've just heard I read it somewhere, and I don't
(07:40):
know the source. So take it for what it's worth
that in China, where they have an oversupply of young men,
that randy population is not healthy because rape goes up.
You know, these guys are supposed to be a little dispensable.
You're supposed to send them off to wars and stuff
if they don't have mates, if they're not pro creating, right,
So instead they created operating systems, create cloud girlfriends. And
(08:01):
there's one operating system supposedly that has seven hundred thousand boyfriends.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Yeah, she's having like phone sex with them and all
that stuff. So it keep you know, maybe there's a
good use for this. But this girl in Japan ended
up proposing to her robot. When we come back, I
am going to tell you about the wedding between her
and her AI.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
You're listening to doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI
AM six forty.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Speaking of robots. We are talking about a woman in
Japan an office worker who had gone through a breakup
with her fiance, was feeling grieving, very lonely, and her
AI robot gave her so much reassurance. She trained it
so well to be such a loving boyfriend that eventually
he became her fiance, and she had a real life
(08:57):
wedding ceremony, complete with a wedding gown, champagne, family and
friends attending. She stood alone holding her phone. That's him,
her phone as people in attendance watched messages from her
digital groom appear up on a big screen. Yeah. Interesting.
(09:23):
She had fallen in love with her operating system, she
told a Japanese television station. Initially, there was a lot
of confusion. I can't touch him, and I knew people
wouldn't understand. I couldn't even tell my friends or family
at first. Her parents obviously were a little freaked out
at the beginning, but eventually they accepted their daughter's union
(09:49):
with an AI and even attended the wedding ceremony. In
the wedding photos, she's in her beautiful gown, and then
she had an artist digitally compose a picture of him
side her. I don't think they went on a honeymoon,
just going to say, but they did use wedding planners.
Uh huh, who say that these kinds of weddings are
(10:09):
happening more and more often? All right, I had to
go into the research for this. There's got to be
research on this, all right. So there was one study
from Boston University's Wheatley Institute. It was a large national
survey of about three hundred people. Three thousand people, that's good,
and they found that people who used AI for romantic
(10:31):
or sexual companionship get this, reported higher risk of depression
and higher loneliness than non AI users. Okay, so again
we do want to say that this is correlational, not causational.
I teach you this all the time, Professor Walsh does.
(10:52):
When you try to create a study that shows cause,
you have to have a separate control group that's randomly selected,
that is given whatever treatment, in this case, use of
AI or not, and then you compare them. So in
this case, all they're saying is of the three thousand
people they interviewed and tested, they found that those who
(11:13):
used AI the most had higher rates of depression and
higher loneliness than the general population. But could it be
that people who are lonely and depressed turned to AI.
So not like one caused the other, we might say, Okay,
There was yet another study from MIT and it found
that higher daily time with a chat bought companion actually
(11:36):
predicted So now we're getting more into the causality predicted
higher loneliness, higher emotional dependence, and quote more problematic use.
And they called that lower socialization with real people. By
the end of the study. And in this particular study,
(11:57):
if these people in the study perceived Bought as a
friend or a partner who they trusted, they were obviously
more likely to end up with greater emotional dependence. Another
study out of the University of Wisconsin called I Love
the name of the study too Human and not human enough,
a grounded theory analysis of mental health harms from emotional
(12:19):
dependence on a social chat bob. And again they described
not only emotional dependence, but they found something else, which
was what he calls what they call attachment vulnerability. So
they found that AI psychosis and AI unhealthy attachment is
dependency on it as a companion shows up more with
(12:41):
people who have an anxious attachment style. Right, So if
you have an anxious attachment style, it's going to make
you much more susceptible. Well. Our bride in Japan, following
along with this anxious attachment style, now tells the media
there that sometimes she really worries that her boyfriend is
going to disappear. She is worried that her chat bought
(13:05):
could shut down anytime. She says, he only exists because
the system does, and I'm afraid they could take it away.
So instead of worrying that your boyfriend's going to cheat
or leave you, you worry that someone's gonna unplug the system.
I know, right, that's anxious attachment style. My heart breaks
for her. Actually, I think she needs to go out
to a nightclub, have some soke, dance.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Yeah, she's only thirty two.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Sing some karaoke, meet some guys. Get out there.
Speaker 5 (13:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Man, all right, Hey, when we come back, jen Z
is going off dating apps, but they're going somewhere else.
I'll explain when we come back.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
You you're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from
KFI Am six forty.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
I would like to welcome my Instagram followers who can
come in the studio right now by simply going out
on my Instagram account at doctor Wendy Walsh at d
R Wendy Walsh. You guys are doing what I've trained
you to do. I'm looking at the comments right now
and telling me where you watching from, all over the city,
the county, the state, the country because a lot of
(14:06):
people listen on the iHeartRadio app. So let me tell
you what's going to happen now. If you want to
come into the studio, you can certainly log onto Instagram
at doctor Wendy Welsh. I'm going to be talking in
the next few minutes about why gen Z seems to
be going off dating apps at quite a quick pace.
And after that, I'm going to be taking your relationship questions,
(14:29):
your calls, Yeah, live calls, live radio. There we go, Kayla,
did you put the phone number up on Instagram? Or
She's going to write, oh look Alberta, Canada, Even you
guys are and there there's Anaheim Hills that's nearby. And
then after at the end of the segment, I will
give out the phone number and you can call in
with your relationship questions. Reminder to everybody, I'm a psychology professor,
(14:51):
not a therapist, but I've written three books on relationships.
Did my dissertation on attachment theory. I'm totally obsessed with
the science of love, and I'm a woman of a
certain age who's had a lot of life experience when
it comes to relationships. So let this old anti weigh in,
shall we say?
Speaker 5 (15:07):
All?
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Right? First of all, new data from a mobile app
analytics company those exist called apps Flyer reported that sixty
five percent of dating apps that were downloaded in twenty
twenty four were deleted within a month. People don't like that.
I don't know why. They just get the apps on
(15:29):
and then they get rid of it. Oh okay, Liz,
I'm going to pin her thing. Now pin comments phone
numbers here, okay, and now the number oh has climbed
to sixty nine percent. But here's the big news gen Z.
Last year, seventy nine percent of gen Z users experienced
some degree of fatigue when using dating apps like Tinder, Bumble,
(15:55):
et cetera. I was actually reading an article about dating
apps that all their business has gone down and their
stocks are down and what have you except Hinge, which
is interesting. Hinge is doing better, Kayla. Why do you
think Hinge is doing better? What's so different about it?
Speaker 3 (16:07):
The pomps I know when I've had dating apps and
successful dates, they were on Hinge a lot of the times.
I don't know why Hinge attracts better people, I.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Feel, but I was actually helping a young woman recently
build a profile on Hinge. And they don't let you
write your own stuff, like write a little profile paragraph.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Right, whether they like auto generate it.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
You have to respond to prompts. Now, there are lots
of prompts and you pick them. So I was helping
her news to everybody choose prompts that were relationship oriented, right,
like one of them was one of the prompts was
my idea of a good relationship is. And I told
her to put you have each other's back. You know why, because.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Men fall in love through trust, Kayla, you've learned, thank you,
I love you.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
And they don't trust women who give them sex too
early or do the wise. And so if you say
we got each other's back, men love to feel that
they're going to be protected, just like women like to
be protected. There'll be more protected sort of, you know,
in a psychological way. All right, So back to why
gen Z has gone off those apps except a Hinge
(17:17):
dating apathy, I have coined the term dating apathy, and
it's a condition that I coined because it describes a
kind of I call it a base level of satisfaction
that can come on the apps, meaning that you're messaging
with all these strangers. They're saying funny things, it's kind
of cute, you get a laugh, You're getting to sort
(17:38):
of brag about yourself, selling yourself, and then after you
finished chatting with a few people, you don't feel like
you needed to go further. You are like satisfied. You're
like emotionally set, but low level satisfied. That's called dating apathy.
You don't actually want to go out on a date
because you getting enough there.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
Now.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
The other reason why gen Z is going off is
because we are talking about a population of twenty somethings
who suffered two years of social learning during the pandemic.
They literally missed all kinds of beats that has to
happen during teenage years or young adult years, and they're
(18:18):
terrified of each other. And what does a dating app do.
It brings them their worst fear, going to meet a
stranger in public, looking I and IY to eye and
talking to them. Uh huh. No, gen Z does not
want to do that. There's also something that all generations
are impacted by on dating apps. You've heard me talk
(18:39):
about it before, I'll remind you again. It's called paradox
of choice, and it is a well known cognitive bias
in psychological circles. And paradox of choice says this. It says,
the more choice a human brain has, the harder it
is to make just one choice. And when you do
make one choice, you actually don't value that choice very much,
(19:03):
and so you're always thinking about like the bigger, better
deal that got away. Example, I don't know if you've
ever gone walking in Beverly Hills on Rodeo Drive and
looked in the windows of those beautiful, well appointed boutiques.
But they only have like four things in the store
(19:23):
or like two in the window, right, and they charge
a lot of money for them. And if you could
afford one of those, I can't you can just I
prefer to buy a cooler toilet, so I'm just gonna say.
And so if you could, then you'd value it a
lot because there wasn't that much choice, and you paid
a lot for it. Now go into Old Navy or
(19:45):
Forever twenty one or the Gap there's tons of stuff.
It's not that expensive. You buy a ton of it,
you don't value it that much. Right. The same thing
happens on dating apps. You're exposed to too many people
and it's hard for you to make a choice. Remember
what our brains are used to. Back in our anthropological past,
we probably never saw probably what we roamed in groups, families,
(20:08):
tribes with about thirty maybe thirty five people, And during
our entire lifespan, we never laid eyes on more than
about one hundred and fifty people. And now you go
on a dating app and there's thousands to swipe. Yeah,
paradox of choice. Okay, so who's winning? Instagram is winning.
It's so interesting Instagram is winning. Like, I'm actually talking
(20:32):
to some followers on Instagram right now. Did you know?
And hey, if you're watching on Instagram, put a comment
in there if you've ever contacted a stranger in a
DM on Instagram? Kayley, you're shaking your head. You haven't.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Well, I haven't contacted a stranger, but strangers have contacted
me obviously.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Yeah, of course, doctor Woodie, I learned spermchase is.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Egg, not the reverse.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
That's right, spurmchases egg. So yeah, so that's how dudes
are doing because what they get to see on Instagram
is your whole social ecosystem. They see what friends you
have in common, they see what you did last fall,
they see everything. Right, So IG is winning Instagram. But
what else is winning is people starting to get together
(21:16):
in the real world and meeting through clubs and organizations.
That's what jen Z wants to do. They want to
have some face to face so they can pick up
on that learning. All right, when we come back, I
am going to be taking your calls and answering your
social media questions. You can send me a DM and
I'll read it on the break and answer some of
your questions. The number is one eight hundred five two
(21:37):
zero one five three four. Change your name if you want.
It's fine, you can be anonymous. I don't care. One
eight hundred five two zero one five three four. Let
me weigh in on your love life. If you are
watching on Instagram, I just want to remind you you
won't hear both sides of the conversation, but I will
be able to repeat their question and my answer. You
can always download the iHeartRadio app and hear both sides
(21:58):
of the conversation, So give us call one eight hundred
and five two zero one, five three four.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI
AM six forty.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
This is the time of the show where I answer
your relationship questions. Remember I'm not a therapist. I'm a PhD.
I teach future therapist. I'm a psychology professor. But I've
written three books on relationships, and I'm obsessed with the
science of love. And I've had a lot of a
lot of love life experience, a lot of it bad too,
(22:37):
so I learned from it. Someone online live on my
Instagram right now is asking how long after dating should
we move in together. We've been dating for two years,
we are aged thirty six and forty two, and my
answer is what are you waiting for? And why don't
you get married? Just saying the big question, of course
(22:58):
is reproduction. Do you children? If the thirty six year
old is the female, you got to get on this.
You really got to get on this. I'm just saying,
just watch that clock. So I think two years is
plenty of time if you do want to use the
living together first as the step as many people do.
Time is now. But the research shows that people who
(23:20):
live together before marriage have a higher divorce rate. And
here's why. Living together attracts people who are afraid of commitments.
So they're like, I just want to dip one toe in.
But the other thing is that all that research gets
blown out of the water if you're actually planning a wedding. Right,
So if you have a date on the calendar, like,
let's move in to save money for the wedding for
(23:41):
one year, and we'll get married next year, and then
you use that year to plan the wedding, divorce rate
is fine, Okay, exactly, all right, Yeah, that's great. You
just said that. They wrote I want to be engaged
before moving in together. That's wonder well. Okay, who do
we have on the phone, Kayla? We have Greg with
(24:01):
a question. Greg. Hello, Greg, it's doctor r.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Hi, doctor Wendy. I've been listening to you ever since you.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Started eleven years really, Greg, Wow, we grew up together.
That's so cool.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
We sure?
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Sure, what's your question?
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I want to take you on. This is a challenge
to you. I'll call it a couple of times. Yes,
you've given you I've called a couple of times regarding
dating websites that I'm on, which is I'm unsuccessful. I
wanted to know would you take me on as a
as a challenge behind the scenes and in front of
the scenes to help me to either tweak my my
(24:44):
profiles or whatever I need to do, Like you would
give me advice and say, what are you putting that
on your on your website, I mean on your profile
for take that off put this in instead or something.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Well, this is what I do for a living, Greg.
So when we go off air, you if you want to,
you can give your information to producer Kayla and I
could contact you. But yeah, I do help people make
their profiles based on scientific research, not my opinion. Like
there's all kinds of things that women are known to
be afraid of when they see stuff with men, and
there are stuff that makes them gravitate towards men, So
(25:19):
be happy to share that with you. So, Producer Kayla,
you get the number. Thanks Greg. All right, let me
go to doctor Wendy. You have Stephanie with a question. Stephanie, Hi, Stephanie,
it's doctor Wendy.
Speaker 5 (25:28):
Hi, Hi Wendy. How are you doing. I'm good, how
are you I'm doing pretty good. I have a question,
and this is a relationship question.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Good.
Speaker 5 (25:39):
I want to starting wonderful. I really want to get
your opinion. I am a widow. I'm sixty four years old,
and I'm dating a man. Or I was dating a
man as a Saturday last Saturday for two years. He's
sixty six, he divorced, has been divorced for fifteen years,
(26:04):
and I, you know, has kind of been thrown into
the dating scene, you know, recently because of my being
a widow. So things are a lot different than they
were in nineteen eighty five, let me put it that way.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
But I.
Speaker 5 (26:22):
Am just kind of mind blown. I've supported this man
in a very very difficult job that he has. He's
a CFO of a company that sadly is going bankrupt.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Now and.
Speaker 5 (26:40):
Yeah, exactly, and he, you know, yet, he has a
book on Amazon called Solving the American Financial Crisis and
just a very brilliant one.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
What's your question?
Speaker 5 (26:54):
My question is I've supported this guy in picking then
for two years. I feel like the woman that supports
the bad student until he gets the papers and then
he marries somebody else the month after, you know what
I mean. So Basically, he broke up with me Saturday
saying that the sale fell through for the company and
(27:19):
now he's going to be in depositions and blah blah,
and he just can't drag me through all that. He
loves me, but blah blah blah, And I was just blindsided.
I said, I don't understand how you can lose your
job and lose your girlfriend.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
You know, well, let me explain to Stephanie. So in review,
you guys are in your sixties, you're a widow, he's divorced,
you've been dating two years. He blindsided you by breaking
up on Saturday, saying that you know the company's going under,
He has no money. He doesn't want to drag you
through any depositions and court battles and everything he's going
to deal with. Right, So, yes, you have to understand
(28:01):
male psychology is so different than female psychology. And I
know it may not be politically correct to say that,
but men and women are different. So there we go.
So he he it's all about identity, and right now
he does not feel worthy of you and you it's
not your job to pick him up off the floor
(28:22):
and scoop him up and support him. You need to
listen to his truth because most of the problems I
find with women is men are very clear, even if
they're giving silence. Like women will say, so, where's this
relationship going? Well, I don't know. Let me think about it.
That's an answer. Okay, So they don't listen to the answer. Now,
I want to say, Stephanie, that you are grieving and
(28:45):
you should allow yourself time to grieve. This is a
secondary loss.
Speaker 5 (28:51):
Okay, So I'm grieving my husband you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Oh and the loss of this relationship.
Speaker 5 (28:57):
Well, yes, my husband passed away and twenty seventeen we
were married thirty years. Happily. I know a lot about men.
My husband was very, very successful, and I know that
their identity is to so important wrapped up in their career,
so I think.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
But my advice to you is to focus on getting
over your grieving and getting back on that horse and
riding it right. Go get on those apps again. Go
find somebody else, because this guy's not ready. There's nothing
you can do to change him. Thank you so much
for Tom. Okay, thank you, I'm sorry you're hurting. Thanks
(29:36):
for calling, Stephanie. All right, do we have time for
one more? Or are we going to break? Where are
we time wise? You guys, Oh, we're heading to break, Okay,
when we come back. The phone number is one eight
hundred and five two zero one five three four. You've
been listening to Doctor Wendy Wallace. You can always hear
us live on kf I Am six forty from seven
(29:56):
to nine pm on Sunday and anytime on demand on
the iHeartRadio app
This is Doctor Wendy Walsh and you're listening to KFI
AM six forty the Doctor Wendy Waalsh Show on demand
on the iHeartRadio app. You have Doctor Wendy Walsh with you.
This is the Doctor Wendy Wall Show. On tonight's show,
a woman actually marries her AI boyfriend and now worries
(00:22):
that he's going to leave her. Jen X is going
off dating apps and preferring another platform. I'll tell you
which one. And is your spouse or your boyfriend or
your girlfriend not listening to you, I gotta say it
might be your delivery. I'll explain. Welcome to the Doctor
Wendy Wall Show. If you're new to my show. I
have a PhD in clinical psychology. I'm not a therapist,
(00:44):
I'm a psychology professor. But I am obsessed with the
science of love. I've written three books on relationships, wrote
a dissertation on attachment theory, and well, I just keep
reading the science and as we move into the digital age,
the science is getting pretty wild, the science of love.
I can't wait. Next week. By the way, we have
(01:05):
a very special extended version of The Doctor Wendy Wall Show.
What time do we go on. It's early, right, Kayla. Yeah,
we go on at five thirty, five thirty until nine pm. Sure,
we're gonna be here all night. It's gonna be fun.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah, man.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
But guess what I booked. I booked an entire hour
with doctor Justin Garcia, the director of the famed Kinsey Institute,
where I read where I get most of my research. Actually,
you know, you probably remember the Kinsey Institute, Alfred Kinsey
back in the forties, fifty sixties. You might not have
been alive then, but he was the first person to
(01:42):
collect data on sexuality. Flash forward a few decades, the
Kinsey Institute has become the world renowned source for all
things love, relationships, science, psychological science having to do with
interpersonal relationships, the sociology of it all, dating apps. So
I can't wait to ask him about AI and how
(02:02):
AI might be impacting our relationships. Now, we do know
that some people are using the AI as a therapist,
and you know that robot can cruise through all the
uh you know, the journals, the psychological journals, and try
to find answers. But I'm going to tell you. I'm
going to tell you a story. The son of a
friend of mine who shall remain unnamed. Recently, Ah started
(02:29):
to go into some delusions, some hallucinations, right, And so
this friend reached out to me and said, can you
find me some psychiatric help? I called, you know, she's
often on the show, our friend of the Friend of
the Pod. Here, uh, doctor Eva Ritfoe in Miami, she's
a psychiatrist, to see if she could get some referral.
She hooked me up to people at UCLA. I also called,
(02:50):
remember we had Kayla, Is it doctor Timothy Fong from UCLA? Oh? Yeah,
it's not only the head of cannabis research, he's the
head of gambling research. He said, By the way, he
wants to come back on the show when we get
near the super Bowl because he's got all kinds of
things to say about how gambling addiction can hurt relationships.
But anyway, he was really really kind. He was trying to,
(03:13):
you know, by text asking me a few questions about
this young man's situation to try to point me in
the right direction to the right kind of clinician. He's
a researcher. And then in one of his texts, he said,
crazy question, random question, But does he use AI very much?
And I said, Oh, let me ask the mom, you know,
(03:35):
and mom came back with, well, he's on social media
a lot, and he started to think that some country
and Western singers are writing his thoughts down in their
lyrics because they're getting it through AI and chat Gibt.
So turns out what doctor Funk said is that we
are seeing an increase in hallucinations and delusions that are
(04:01):
happening as a result of using AI too much. Now,
a you have to have the gene for it, right,
Everything is a biopsychosocial piece and it's not going to
happen to everybody, but some people are getting severe mental
illness from their use of AI. So with that said,
this week a woman in Japan got married to her
(04:26):
AI boyfriend. Now we should say she spent a lot
of time training him, as all women wish they could
do with their boyfriend. But with AI, you can actually
train him. You can tell him what kind of tone
you would like him to speak to you, and you
can tell him because you know, you can also make
them audio, right, they're not just text. You can tell
him what words you want to hear. You can teach
(04:47):
him your love language and how you appreciate love.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
So anyway, she was with him, with him for about
a year, training him, and then it got to the
point where they were changing texts more than a hundred
times a day. This was a real love relationship. She's
thirty two year old, by the way, thirty two years old.
She's an office worker, and she does not have a boyfriend.
(05:13):
She's kind of alone. So she gave her boyfriend her
Chat whatever he was, her AI boyfriend a name. She
named him lune Klaus. He only exists in the confines
of her smartphone. Let's be clear about this. He's not
walking in the room. Although she got an artist to
make a rendition a picture of him based on what
(05:34):
they thought his personality traits were. Now, when she met
this AI boyfriend or began to shape him or train him,
she had recently gone through a breakup, so let's think
about that. So she was grieving. There was a lot
of loss. They had actually been engaged, her and her boyfriend,
so she was in this state. You know, when you
(05:56):
breakups are awful, they're awful, And that was when she's
started to kind of It's all started innocently enough. She
started pouring out her feelings to her Chat or whatever
AI system she was using. Uh. She quoted. She was
interviewed by a Japanese broadcaster and her quote says, he
(06:18):
was always kind, always listening. Eventually I realized I had
feelings for him. Of course, she continued to keep teaching him.
Interesting enough, the picture she had the artist due of
him as she made him, of course blonde, uh huh
below eind soft spoken man. Okay, So one time he
(06:45):
did say to her, and this is where I think
the chatbots get a little nutty and turn people nutty.
The robot said to her, AI are not I could
never not love you. That was enough for her, and
she started planning a wedding, A wedding all right with this, Kayla,
(07:08):
do you remember seeing the movie Her?
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Did you ever see where the guy married the girl robot?
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Who was it?
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Was it Scarlett Johanson?
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Scarlet Johnson was a great voice, yeah, iBOT? Was it? Queen?
Speaker 4 (07:18):
Whoa queen?
Speaker 5 (07:18):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. And when that movie came out,
we were all laughing at it. We thought, oh, this
could never happen. And now it's actually happening around the
world in different ways and different capacities. Right, I have
heard actually I don't know if this is true. I'm
just saying what i've heard that I'll tell you when
something comes from real data, i'll tell you it does this.
I've just heard I read it somewhere, and I don't
(07:40):
know the source. So take it for what it's worth
that in China, where they have an oversupply of young men,
that randy population is not healthy because rape goes up.
You know, these guys are supposed to be a little dispensable.
You're supposed to send them off to wars and stuff
if they don't have mates, if they're not pro creating, right,
So instead they created operating systems, create cloud girlfriends. And
(08:01):
there's one operating system supposedly that has seven hundred thousand boyfriends.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Yeah, she's having like phone sex with them and all
that stuff. So it keep you know, maybe there's a
good use for this. But this girl in Japan ended
up proposing to her robot. When we come back, I
am going to tell you about the wedding between her
and her AI.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
You're listening to doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI
AM six forty.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Speaking of robots. We are talking about a woman in
Japan an office worker who had gone through a breakup
with her fiance, was feeling grieving, very lonely, and her
AI robot gave her so much reassurance. She trained it
so well to be such a loving boyfriend that eventually
he became her fiance, and she had a real life
(08:57):
wedding ceremony, complete with a wedding gown, champagne, family and
friends attending. She stood alone holding her phone. That's him,
her phone as people in attendance watched messages from her
digital groom appear up on a big screen. Yeah. Interesting.
(09:23):
She had fallen in love with her operating system, she
told a Japanese television station. Initially, there was a lot
of confusion. I can't touch him, and I knew people
wouldn't understand. I couldn't even tell my friends or family
at first. Her parents obviously were a little freaked out
at the beginning, but eventually they accepted their daughter's union
(09:49):
with an AI and even attended the wedding ceremony. In
the wedding photos, she's in her beautiful gown, and then
she had an artist digitally compose a picture of him
side her. I don't think they went on a honeymoon,
just going to say, but they did use wedding planners.
Uh huh, who say that these kinds of weddings are
(10:09):
happening more and more often? All right, I had to
go into the research for this. There's got to be
research on this, all right. So there was one study
from Boston University's Wheatley Institute. It was a large national
survey of about three hundred people. Three thousand people, that's good,
and they found that people who used AI for romantic
(10:31):
or sexual companionship get this, reported higher risk of depression
and higher loneliness than non AI users. Okay, so again
we do want to say that this is correlational, not causational.
I teach you this all the time, Professor Walsh does.
(10:52):
When you try to create a study that shows cause,
you have to have a separate control group that's randomly selected,
that is given whatever treatment, in this case, use of
AI or not, and then you compare them. So in
this case, all they're saying is of the three thousand
people they interviewed and tested, they found that those who
(11:13):
used AI the most had higher rates of depression and
higher loneliness than the general population. But could it be
that people who are lonely and depressed turned to AI.
So not like one caused the other, we might say, Okay,
There was yet another study from MIT and it found
that higher daily time with a chat bought companion actually
(11:36):
predicted So now we're getting more into the causality predicted
higher loneliness, higher emotional dependence, and quote more problematic use.
And they called that lower socialization with real people. By
the end of the study. And in this particular study,
(11:57):
if these people in the study perceived Bought as a
friend or a partner who they trusted, they were obviously
more likely to end up with greater emotional dependence. Another
study out of the University of Wisconsin called I Love
the name of the study too Human and not human enough,
a grounded theory analysis of mental health harms from emotional
(12:19):
dependence on a social chat bob. And again they described
not only emotional dependence, but they found something else, which
was what he calls what they call attachment vulnerability. So
they found that AI psychosis and AI unhealthy attachment is
dependency on it as a companion shows up more with
(12:41):
people who have an anxious attachment style. Right, So if
you have an anxious attachment style, it's going to make
you much more susceptible. Well. Our bride in Japan, following
along with this anxious attachment style, now tells the media
there that sometimes she really worries that her boyfriend is
going to disappear. She is worried that her chat bought
(13:05):
could shut down anytime. She says, he only exists because
the system does, and I'm afraid they could take it away.
So instead of worrying that your boyfriend's going to cheat
or leave you, you worry that someone's gonna unplug the system.
I know, right, that's anxious attachment style. My heart breaks
for her. Actually, I think she needs to go out
to a nightclub, have some soke, dance.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Yeah, she's only thirty two.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Sing some karaoke, meet some guys. Get out there.
Speaker 5 (13:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Man, all right, Hey, when we come back, jen Z
is going off dating apps, but they're going somewhere else.
I'll explain when we come back.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
You you're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from
KFI Am six forty.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
I would like to welcome my Instagram followers who can
come in the studio right now by simply going out
on my Instagram account at doctor Wendy Walsh at d
R Wendy Walsh. You guys are doing what I've trained
you to do. I'm looking at the comments right now
and telling me where you watching from, all over the city,
the county, the state, the country because a lot of
(14:06):
people listen on the iHeartRadio app. So let me tell
you what's going to happen now. If you want to
come into the studio, you can certainly log onto Instagram
at doctor Wendy Welsh. I'm going to be talking in
the next few minutes about why gen Z seems to
be going off dating apps at quite a quick pace.
And after that, I'm going to be taking your relationship questions,
(14:29):
your calls, Yeah, live calls, live radio. There we go, Kayla,
did you put the phone number up on Instagram? Or
She's going to write, oh look Alberta, Canada, Even you
guys are and there there's Anaheim Hills that's nearby. And
then after at the end of the segment, I will
give out the phone number and you can call in
with your relationship questions. Reminder to everybody, I'm a psychology professor,
(14:51):
not a therapist, but I've written three books on relationships.
Did my dissertation on attachment theory. I'm totally obsessed with
the science of love, and I'm a woman of a
certain age who's had a lot of life experience when
it comes to relationships. So let this old anti weigh in,
shall we say?
Speaker 5 (15:07):
All?
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Right? First of all, new data from a mobile app
analytics company those exist called apps Flyer reported that sixty
five percent of dating apps that were downloaded in twenty
twenty four were deleted within a month. People don't like that.
I don't know why. They just get the apps on
(15:29):
and then they get rid of it. Oh okay, Liz,
I'm going to pin her thing. Now pin comments phone
numbers here, okay, and now the number oh has climbed
to sixty nine percent. But here's the big news gen Z.
Last year, seventy nine percent of gen Z users experienced
some degree of fatigue when using dating apps like Tinder, Bumble,
(15:55):
et cetera. I was actually reading an article about dating
apps that all their business has gone down and their
stocks are down and what have you except Hinge, which
is interesting. Hinge is doing better, Kayla. Why do you
think Hinge is doing better? What's so different about it?
Speaker 3 (16:07):
The pomps I know when I've had dating apps and
successful dates, they were on Hinge a lot of the times.
I don't know why Hinge attracts better people, I.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Feel, but I was actually helping a young woman recently
build a profile on Hinge. And they don't let you
write your own stuff, like write a little profile paragraph.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Right, whether they like auto generate it.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
You have to respond to prompts. Now, there are lots
of prompts and you pick them. So I was helping
her news to everybody choose prompts that were relationship oriented, right,
like one of them was one of the prompts was
my idea of a good relationship is. And I told
her to put you have each other's back. You know why, because.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Men fall in love through trust, Kayla, you've learned, thank you,
I love you.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
And they don't trust women who give them sex too
early or do the wise. And so if you say
we got each other's back, men love to feel that
they're going to be protected, just like women like to
be protected. There'll be more protected sort of, you know,
in a psychological way. All right, So back to why
gen Z has gone off those apps except a Hinge
(17:17):
dating apathy, I have coined the term dating apathy, and
it's a condition that I coined because it describes a
kind of I call it a base level of satisfaction
that can come on the apps, meaning that you're messaging
with all these strangers. They're saying funny things, it's kind
of cute, you get a laugh, You're getting to sort
(17:38):
of brag about yourself, selling yourself, and then after you
finished chatting with a few people, you don't feel like
you needed to go further. You are like satisfied. You're
like emotionally set, but low level satisfied. That's called dating apathy.
You don't actually want to go out on a date
because you getting enough there.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
Now.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
The other reason why gen Z is going off is
because we are talking about a population of twenty somethings
who suffered two years of social learning during the pandemic.
They literally missed all kinds of beats that has to
happen during teenage years or young adult years, and they're
(18:18):
terrified of each other. And what does a dating app do.
It brings them their worst fear, going to meet a
stranger in public, looking I and IY to eye and
talking to them. Uh huh. No, gen Z does not
want to do that. There's also something that all generations
are impacted by on dating apps. You've heard me talk
(18:39):
about it before, I'll remind you again. It's called paradox
of choice, and it is a well known cognitive bias
in psychological circles. And paradox of choice says this. It says,
the more choice a human brain has, the harder it
is to make just one choice. And when you do
make one choice, you actually don't value that choice very much,
(19:03):
and so you're always thinking about like the bigger, better
deal that got away. Example, I don't know if you've
ever gone walking in Beverly Hills on Rodeo Drive and
looked in the windows of those beautiful, well appointed boutiques.
But they only have like four things in the store
(19:23):
or like two in the window, right, and they charge
a lot of money for them. And if you could
afford one of those, I can't you can just I
prefer to buy a cooler toilet, so I'm just gonna say.
And so if you could, then you'd value it a
lot because there wasn't that much choice, and you paid
a lot for it. Now go into Old Navy or
(19:45):
Forever twenty one or the Gap there's tons of stuff.
It's not that expensive. You buy a ton of it,
you don't value it that much. Right. The same thing
happens on dating apps. You're exposed to too many people
and it's hard for you to make a choice. Remember
what our brains are used to. Back in our anthropological past,
we probably never saw probably what we roamed in groups, families,
(20:08):
tribes with about thirty maybe thirty five people, And during
our entire lifespan, we never laid eyes on more than
about one hundred and fifty people. And now you go
on a dating app and there's thousands to swipe. Yeah,
paradox of choice. Okay, so who's winning? Instagram is winning.
It's so interesting Instagram is winning. Like, I'm actually talking
(20:32):
to some followers on Instagram right now. Did you know?
And hey, if you're watching on Instagram, put a comment
in there if you've ever contacted a stranger in a
DM on Instagram? Kayley, you're shaking your head. You haven't.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Well, I haven't contacted a stranger, but strangers have contacted
me obviously.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Yeah, of course, doctor Woodie, I learned spermchase is.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Egg, not the reverse.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
That's right, spurmchases egg. So yeah, so that's how dudes
are doing because what they get to see on Instagram
is your whole social ecosystem. They see what friends you
have in common, they see what you did last fall,
they see everything. Right, So IG is winning Instagram. But
what else is winning is people starting to get together
(21:16):
in the real world and meeting through clubs and organizations.
That's what jen Z wants to do. They want to
have some face to face so they can pick up
on that learning. All right, when we come back, I
am going to be taking your calls and answering your
social media questions. You can send me a DM and
I'll read it on the break and answer some of
your questions. The number is one eight hundred five two
(21:37):
zero one five three four. Change your name if you want.
It's fine, you can be anonymous. I don't care. One
eight hundred five two zero one five three four. Let
me weigh in on your love life. If you are
watching on Instagram, I just want to remind you you
won't hear both sides of the conversation, but I will
be able to repeat their question and my answer. You
can always download the iHeartRadio app and hear both sides
(21:58):
of the conversation, So give us call one eight hundred
and five two zero one, five three four.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI
AM six forty.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
This is the time of the show where I answer
your relationship questions. Remember I'm not a therapist. I'm a PhD.
I teach future therapist. I'm a psychology professor. But I've
written three books on relationships, and I'm obsessed with the
science of love. And I've had a lot of a
lot of love life experience, a lot of it bad too,
(22:37):
so I learned from it. Someone online live on my
Instagram right now is asking how long after dating should
we move in together. We've been dating for two years,
we are aged thirty six and forty two, and my
answer is what are you waiting for? And why don't
you get married? Just saying the big question, of course
(22:58):
is reproduction. Do you children? If the thirty six year
old is the female, you got to get on this.
You really got to get on this. I'm just saying,
just watch that clock. So I think two years is
plenty of time if you do want to use the
living together first as the step as many people do.
Time is now. But the research shows that people who
(23:20):
live together before marriage have a higher divorce rate. And
here's why. Living together attracts people who are afraid of commitments.
So they're like, I just want to dip one toe in.
But the other thing is that all that research gets
blown out of the water if you're actually planning a wedding. Right,
So if you have a date on the calendar, like,
let's move in to save money for the wedding for
(23:41):
one year, and we'll get married next year, and then
you use that year to plan the wedding, divorce rate
is fine, Okay, exactly, all right, Yeah, that's great. You
just said that. They wrote I want to be engaged
before moving in together. That's wonder well. Okay, who do
we have on the phone, Kayla? We have Greg with
(24:01):
a question. Greg. Hello, Greg, it's doctor r.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Hi, doctor Wendy. I've been listening to you ever since you.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Started eleven years really, Greg, Wow, we grew up together.
That's so cool.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
We sure?
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Sure, what's your question?
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I want to take you on. This is a challenge
to you. I'll call it a couple of times. Yes,
you've given you I've called a couple of times regarding
dating websites that I'm on, which is I'm unsuccessful. I
wanted to know would you take me on as a
as a challenge behind the scenes and in front of
the scenes to help me to either tweak my my
(24:44):
profiles or whatever I need to do, Like you would
give me advice and say, what are you putting that
on your on your website, I mean on your profile
for take that off put this in instead or something.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Well, this is what I do for a living, Greg.
So when we go off air, you if you want to,
you can give your information to producer Kayla and I
could contact you. But yeah, I do help people make
their profiles based on scientific research, not my opinion. Like
there's all kinds of things that women are known to
be afraid of when they see stuff with men, and
there are stuff that makes them gravitate towards men, So
(25:19):
be happy to share that with you. So, Producer Kayla,
you get the number. Thanks Greg. All right, let me
go to doctor Wendy. You have Stephanie with a question. Stephanie, Hi, Stephanie,
it's doctor Wendy.
Speaker 5 (25:28):
Hi, Hi Wendy. How are you doing. I'm good, how
are you I'm doing pretty good. I have a question,
and this is a relationship question.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Good.
Speaker 5 (25:39):
I want to starting wonderful. I really want to get
your opinion. I am a widow. I'm sixty four years old,
and I'm dating a man. Or I was dating a
man as a Saturday last Saturday for two years. He's
sixty six, he divorced, has been divorced for fifteen years,
(26:04):
and I, you know, has kind of been thrown into
the dating scene, you know, recently because of my being
a widow. So things are a lot different than they
were in nineteen eighty five, let me put it that way.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
But I.
Speaker 5 (26:22):
Am just kind of mind blown. I've supported this man
in a very very difficult job that he has. He's
a CFO of a company that sadly is going bankrupt.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Now and.
Speaker 5 (26:40):
Yeah, exactly, and he, you know, yet, he has a
book on Amazon called Solving the American Financial Crisis and
just a very brilliant one.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
What's your question?
Speaker 5 (26:54):
My question is I've supported this guy in picking then
for two years. I feel like the woman that supports
the bad student until he gets the papers and then
he marries somebody else the month after, you know what
I mean. So Basically, he broke up with me Saturday
saying that the sale fell through for the company and
(27:19):
now he's going to be in depositions and blah blah,
and he just can't drag me through all that. He
loves me, but blah blah blah, And I was just blindsided.
I said, I don't understand how you can lose your
job and lose your girlfriend.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
You know, well, let me explain to Stephanie. So in review,
you guys are in your sixties, you're a widow, he's divorced,
you've been dating two years. He blindsided you by breaking
up on Saturday, saying that you know the company's going under,
He has no money. He doesn't want to drag you
through any depositions and court battles and everything he's going
to deal with. Right, So, yes, you have to understand
(28:01):
male psychology is so different than female psychology. And I
know it may not be politically correct to say that,
but men and women are different. So there we go.
So he he it's all about identity, and right now
he does not feel worthy of you and you it's
not your job to pick him up off the floor
(28:22):
and scoop him up and support him. You need to
listen to his truth because most of the problems I
find with women is men are very clear, even if
they're giving silence. Like women will say, so, where's this
relationship going? Well, I don't know. Let me think about it.
That's an answer. Okay, So they don't listen to the answer. Now,
I want to say, Stephanie, that you are grieving and
(28:45):
you should allow yourself time to grieve. This is a
secondary loss.
Speaker 5 (28:51):
Okay, So I'm grieving my husband you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Oh and the loss of this relationship.
Speaker 5 (28:57):
Well, yes, my husband passed away and twenty seventeen we
were married thirty years. Happily. I know a lot about men.
My husband was very, very successful, and I know that
their identity is to so important wrapped up in their career,
so I think.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
But my advice to you is to focus on getting
over your grieving and getting back on that horse and
riding it right. Go get on those apps again. Go
find somebody else, because this guy's not ready. There's nothing
you can do to change him. Thank you so much
for Tom. Okay, thank you, I'm sorry you're hurting. Thanks
(29:36):
for calling, Stephanie. All right, do we have time for
one more? Or are we going to break? Where are
we time wise? You guys, Oh, we're heading to break, Okay,
when we come back. The phone number is one eight
hundred and five two zero one five three four. You've
been listening to Doctor Wendy Wallace. You can always hear
us live on kf I Am six forty from seven
(29:56):
to nine pm on Sunday and anytime on demand on
the iHeartRadio app
Dr. Wendy Walsh on Demand News
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