July 29, 2024 • 29 mins
Dr. Wendy is offering her Wendy wisdom with her drive by makeshift relationship advice. PLUS we are talking to Nia King, an LCSW who saw a need for minority representation in emotional language tools. The products she created are aimed to help black children normalize social-emotional regulation. Kid Onyx was founded to provide culturally competent therapy tools. Nia is determined to create a line of products that will help children of all ages
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
This is doctor Wendy Walsh and you'relistening to KFI AM six forty the Doctor
Wendy Walsh Show on demand on theiHeartRadio app. Doctor Wendy Walsh with you.
This is the Doctor Wendy Waalsh Show, and this is the time of
my show where I answer your relationshipquestions. Reminder, I'm not a therapist.
I'm a psychology professor. I dohave a PhD in clinical psychology.
(00:21):
I've written three books on relationships anddid a dissertation on attachment theory because I'm
obsessed with the science of love.I've also had a lifetime of experience.
I've been everything. I've been agirlfriend, I've been a wife, I've
been a divorce a I've been amistress, I have been a single mom.
I have been everything and in everysituation. So let me weigh in.
(00:45):
If you'd like to send me aDM We're going to social media this
week. Just go to my Instagramat doctor Wendy Walsh and type away.
I will keep your identity a secret. Okay, here we go. Hey,
Doctor Wendy, whenever me and mygirlfriend argue, she hits really low
behind the belt. I think youmean metaphorically, she calls me miserable because
(01:07):
oh I had debilitating depression for afew months. She brings up things that
I told her in confidence. Isthis something someone will grow out of?
Or are we just not meant tobe? Is that always the question?
Like? Is it going to work? Is it not? So it sounds
like she is trying to hurt you. She's betraying your trust. She's taking
(01:34):
your vulnerability and turning it around andusing it as a weapon. So my
first bit of advice is to tellher about it and set up a boundary
that says something like, you knowwhat, the next time you bring up
my depression, I'm going to endthe conversation and leave the room and we'll
have a conversation another time. Right, a boundary is protecting yourself. It's
(01:57):
not trying to get somebody else tobehave It's about what you need to do
to keep yourself emotionally safe. Oryou might say something like, you know,
there are lots of tender things I'veshared with you. If you continue
to choose to use them as weapons, then we're not going to be able
to continue right in this relationship orwhatever. I do believe people can change
(02:19):
but they need to be told aheadof time, and they need to have
boundaries followed by consequences. And Ialso highly suggest that the two of you
enter therapy with a licensed clinician sothat you can learn better skills, because
if it continued, my prediction,my personal prediction, would be that it's
(02:42):
not meant to be because you don'tdeserve to be hurt by the secrets you've
shared. Okay, all right,scrolling away, moving on? What have
we got? Uh? Oh,here's an interesting one. So hey,
doctor Wendy. I keep finding evidencethat my boyfriend is cheating. Yet he
(03:02):
explains it away. He claims hekeeps everything I find. He keeps everything
I find is old. Oh andhe just had a life before me.
I have found underwear, pictures,love letters, and so on. My
gut tells me he's lying, Buthow can I know for sure? You
might be surprised by my answer tothis one, which is, can you
(03:27):
trust your gut? You see,here's the thing, you know, Years
and years ago, I had aman who I was counseling, and he
told me that he was telling allthis evidence that he thought his girlfriend was
cheating on him. And I hada supervisor at the time, and she
told me, you know, here'sthe thing. If somebody has an anxious
(03:51):
attachment style and they have high sensitivityto feelings of abandonment, then they're going
to be really vigilant. What isthis? Is this underwear? Is this
a love letter? What could thisbe? Right? So she said she
used the best expression, she goes, trust me, they always find something
to hang their hat on. Inother words, your anxiety might be real
(04:15):
or it might be using all theselittle evidence to just continue with your anxiety.
So I have a few things thatI would say as far as behavior
to do. The first thing is, if he's got this quote unquote underwear,
pictures, love letters or whatever,will he throw them away or is
he hanging on to them for somereason? And why you want to know
(04:36):
about that? And the other thingis how often have you been able to
trust your gut in the past?Has cheating been a thing? Because here's
the thing. I don't mean tosay that people who are cheated on are
responsible for that or to blame forit. However, people who have a
high abandonment anxiety unconscious fall in lovewith cheaters. Like it's like when two
(05:02):
people meet they do a kind ofunconscious handshake, and they're like, Okay,
you promised to treat me like myabandoning daddy. Cool, you're gonna
treat me like my critical mom.Great, we're on. And so they
do this dance of dating. Oh, what movies do you like? What
music do you like? But underneaththey're doing another dance. I call it
(05:23):
the parallel universe. So look aboutyour look at your past. Have you
experienced a lot of cheating? Areyou naturally attracted to cheaters? Is this
what's happening? Because I hear peoplesay I don't know what's wrong. I
always just keep meeting cheaters. Areall people like that? No, you
unconsciously pick them and you fix it. Am I going to therapy? Yes,
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it's the advice I give all thetime because I benefit it from it
so much. Going to be andfinding out whether your gut is trustworthy.
That's really the thing, Whether yourgut is trustworthy. All right, So
when we come back, I wantto talk about this next listener who wrote
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to me, and I want youto think about this for a minute.
That her significant other, this dudewho says he's her boyfriend, says they're
committed but hasn't introduced her to anybodyin his life yet. Da Da Da
da. Let's talk about what thatmeans when we come back. If you'd
(06:28):
like to send me a DM,the handle is at doctor Wendy Walsh on
Instagram. Okay, we'll be rightback. You're listening to doctor Wendy Walsh
Show. Ok I Am six fortylive everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You're
listening to doctor Wendy Walsh on demandfrom KFI AM six forty. I'm still
answering your direct messages on Instagram.If you'd like to send me one,
(06:53):
the handle is at doctor Wendy Walsh. Okay, says this listener. I
was single for seven years and itwas so low only and hard to connect.
I met a man who is prettyokay. I'm gonna pause right there,
pretty okay. Actually I'm a bigfan of good enough relationships anyway,
so I like that description. However, she continues. He says, we're
(07:16):
in a relationship, but I haven'tmet his friends. He doesn't tell anyone
about me, and he won't postour pictures. I don't want to be
alone again, but I feel abit alone with him. What do I
do? You dump them. I'msorry. I'm just gonna be clear on
this. A guy who says we'rein a relationship but doesn't bring you out
(07:39):
to his tribe, doesn't tell anyoneabout you, doesn't post your pictures,
is either married or seeing four women. Honestly, this is not normal behavior
for people who say they're in arelationship. He's there for the sex,
trust me, dump them, moveon. I rarely say that, but
(08:00):
there's just too much. Uh.Okay, uh, Dear doctor Wendy,
I miss my love. We don'tlive in the same state and we didn't
want a long distance relationship. SoI guess that means you broke up.
Okay. I blocked him because hewas dating and I couldn't stomach it.
Oh so I guess he was postingpictures on social of him dating or whatever.
(08:20):
Should I reach out or stay strongand keep the no contact? Okay?
Just because you miss somebody doesn't meanthat that person is the person for
you. It just means you havea feeling of wanting to be with someone,
a feeling of you know, wantingto be close, a feeling of
(08:41):
loneliness. You know, I've saidthis for years. You know, even
if you're in a bad relationship.After the breakup, you're going to have
to grieve because it's like losing aleg. But don't forget that leg had
gangrene. You don't need it.Okay. So you may miss somebody,
(09:01):
but it's not about him. It'snot because he's great. So yeah,
keep locking him, keep no contact, don't do it all right. These
next two are kind of interesting,and I'm going to read both of them,
and then I want you to thinkabout it. Okay, First one
says my partner has not told hisex wife and the mother of his children
(09:22):
that we're in a relationship. Hesays he doesn't want to upset her because
quote, she's crazy already. Idon't like that language. Is this a
red flag? Or should I stayout of their relationship. I don't know
how long you've been seeing him,but just saying now, Listen to the
next listener who writes me, Hey, doctor Wendy, I'm dating a guy
(09:45):
who's a great dad and he hasa great relationship with his co parent.
I know he'll be a great dadif we ever get to that stage.
However, where's the boundary between greatco parenting and alarming behavior with the ex.
So we see two extremes here.We see one person who says,
I'm not going to tell my exabout you because she's going to be all
upset and that's going to mess thingsup with me and the kids. The
(10:09):
other one who's so close to hisex that you're kind of like a little
bit jealous and envious. There's noone right way to have a relationship,
to have a blended family, todeal with your ex, first of all,
but if you're feeling insecure about someway that your partner is relating with
(10:30):
their ex, then you need totalk about it. Right. So in
the first case with the listener whosays he doesn't want to tell her because
you know she'll get upset, now, he doesn't have to tell her.
He doesn't owe her anything. Nowis the question will she find out?
(10:50):
Because now he's going to introduce youto the kids, And I'm not a
big believer in introducing to the kidsuntil you've been together at least six months,
come on, at least if nota year, get it solid before
you become a revolving Dora of parentalfigures in a kid's life. Okay,
so he doesn't have to tell heranything, the fact that you want him
(11:11):
to tell her tells me that you'reworried that they're too close, that they're
having some kind of intimacy, emotionalintimacy. Okay. The second listener says,
I'm dating a guy who's a greatdad. He has a great relationship
with his co parent. You know, this week Doug em Off's you know
(11:33):
him, he's he's married to Kamala. Right, his ex wife posted how
much how happy she was that Kamalawas such a good stepmother to her kids.
I mean, that is unique,and I think it's wonderful. But
in order to maintain these relationships,you have to also have boundaries. So
(11:54):
it sounds like when you say he'sgot a great relationship with his co parent,
However, where's the boundary between greatco parenting and alarming behavior with the
X? Well, the alarming behavioris if he's betraying confidences about your relationship
with him, right, and ifhe's sharing emotional intimacy with her, if
(12:15):
she's still his kind of like bestfriend and he's combining in her and he
hasn't transferred those feelings to you whereyou are now his secure attachment figure,
then that could be alarming. Thatcould feel alarming, So talk about it,
talk about where the boundaries are.Say things like I don't want you
sharing information about our relationship, etcetera. Uh. Okay, so it's
(12:39):
hard negotiating with an X, butit's possible. One final question before we
go. Dear doctor Wendy, I'mso excited for a first date. This
guy and I have been talking forthree months and we're finally ready to meet
in person. We talk every day. First of all, there's a problem
with that, you guys, Pleasea couple texts, a phone call,
meet for coffee. The whole thingshould take a week before you meet three
(13:03):
months now the anticipation is so high, or if the person's catfishing you,
you're so all in. Oh mygosh, three weeks and you have three
months and you haven't met. Sothen she says, we confirmed our date,
the date of it, but notthe location, And then I haven't
heard anything since, and when Ibring it up, he changes the subject.
Our date is supposed to be tomorrowand we haven't spoken all day.
(13:24):
Is this worth a conversation or shouldI just move on? There's a reason
why he's not meeting you in thereal world. Maybe you should call those
guys from Catfish. Uh And whyno guy waits three months? I'm sorry.
Guys have energy. If they wanta relationship, they want to get
(13:45):
it done, they want to getclose to you. There's some big secret
there. I promise. I thinkI might see you on Catfish someday,
because there's there's some reason three monthsyou've been talking every day, Oh dear,
all right, when we come back. Earlier I talked about Simone Biles
and how proud I am of herbeing what I call a poster child for
mental health. When we come back, a licensed clinical social worker who is
(14:11):
working hard to help children, particularlychildren of color, overcome their own trauma.
You are listening to the Doctor WendyWalsh Show and KFI AM six forty
We Live Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on
demand from KFI AM six forty.Earlier in the show, I talked about
(14:37):
my new heroine, not heroin,heroin, hero hero Okay, she's just
a shiro, Simone Biles and howshe has become such a maverick for an
a poster child for mental health andher own therapeutic process that is taking her
again to hopefully another Olympic gold.She's in number one of the trials so
(15:00):
far, so that's pretty cool.And it made me think about how many
children not only have high ACE scoresyou've heard me talk about ACE scores before,
adverse childhood experiences, but also realtrauma. And we know remember a
(15:22):
few weeks ago, I had aguy on my show who was the researcher
who developed the whole idea of journalingand language, and he found that the
trauma stays in the body if itis not expressed. It is the words
that help us heal. My nextguest works with children, particularly children of
(15:43):
color, to help them find thosewords. I'd like to introduce Nia King,
a licensed clinical social worker and herwebsite is called kidonyx dot com.
Nia, Welcome to the show.Hello, doctor Wendy. Tell me about
(16:03):
your journey and why you decided tofocus particularly on this area which is growing
emotional intelligence and emotional vocabulary in childrenof color. Well, a child like
myself, I was very talkative.I would talk back a lot, I
would get in trouble a lot inschool, and I always wondered if I
(16:27):
would have had better emotional regulation orbetter coping skills would have gotten in that
much trouble. So that kind ofinspired me to become a therapist because I
always wanted to help children so thatthey wouldn't have to go through the same
things that I went through as achild, and I always had a passion
(16:49):
for it. I always had alove for it. And during the beginning
of my career, I was workingin Englewood and Los Angeles, and I
noticed that a lot of the theirtools didn't have any children of color in
them, or even if they did, it would be like one or two
pictures of them in it. AndI'm thinking, if we're trying to get
the next generation comfortable with mental healthor comfortable with therapy, it has to
(17:15):
start from a young age. Sothat's how kid Onyx kind of came to
mind, And I said, whydo I make it a cartoon, Make
it fun, make it entertaining sothat kids will be drawn to it.
And that is how I came upwith my first Kings and Queens emotion cards.
(17:36):
But before we get to the detailsof kid Onyx and how it works,
now, you mentioned something a momentago about beginning your career in Inglewood
historically African American community in Los Angeles, and I want you to talk a
little about a bit about the stigmathat still exists regarding therapy in the Africa
(18:00):
in American community. Is it changing, I would say yes and no,
because coming out of grad school,I saw a lot of black therapists and
black people talking about, you know, mental wealth and therapy and coping skills.
And even in some of the TVshows, a lot of the black
(18:21):
TV shows, they have a therapiston there. But in reality, the
children are still thinking that if Ihave a therapist, that means I'm crazy,
or the parents are still telling me, oh, it's nothing wrong with
my child. They're not crazy.They don't need to talk to you.
So in theory, it looks likewe're getting better at it, but in
(18:45):
reality, in Los Angeles and Inglewood, it's still a little bit of a
hesitance towards therapy because it's still astigma. The stigma still exists. And
as another a colleague of mine,a person of color, said to me
once, if you say that you'renot feeling well in the head, they
just tell you. Your community tellsyou just go to church and get on
(19:06):
your knees then, so the competitionis with religiosity, right, right,
And I always tell people, youknow, religion is great, that's a
great coping skill. Prayer is great, but also let's incorporate some therapy as
well, Like why can't we doboth? When you saw the reports of
(19:27):
Simone Biles coming out talking about herrecovery from her mental health crisis through the
use of therapy, and also shecouldn't take medication because they test them for
drugs, right, So what wasyour first reaction when you heard about this.
I'm not really surprised that she struggledmentally because she's been ridiculed, you
(19:52):
know, and talked about a nationaltelevision for the past Harvard many years her
career has been and when you're anathlete on that level, you know,
it's almost like can I do thisagain? You almost get like imposter syndrome
because you've done so great in yourcareer and it's like how long can I
keep this up? So for Iknow a lot of black women in general,
(20:15):
like we are you know, themost educated, and we have the
most entrepreneurs and businesses, but we'realways trying to do more because it's like
as soon as we make it towhere we want to be, it's like,
Okay, how can I sustain this? Or am I going to be
able to top this? So it'sreally I mean, it's sad, but
(20:37):
it's not surprising to me that shestruggled. Because she's on such a high
level and the world is watching her. It also makes me wonder and as
a licensed clinical social worker, I'msure you can comment on this whether the
criticism online is a triggering of earlytrauma. I mean, here's a young
woman who's there's no secret her parentsstruggled with addiction, her mother lost custody
(21:00):
of her, she was put intofoster care, and then eventually adopted by
her grandparents. Later notoriously, shewas a sexual assault victim of the famous
team doctor Larry Nasser, and soshe's been very public about having gone through
this. But I'm wondering if thepressure to perform and the pressure to get
(21:22):
criticized, the pressure from the criticismonline, does that trigger some of this
earlier trauma. I would say itdepends on the person, but for her,
at the level that she's at,I'm sure it's gotten to her because
I even remember when she did aninterview with her husband, and there was
so much ridicule about that that shespoke out about it. She was like,
(21:45):
I see what you guys are saying, and I love my husband.
You guys are wrong. So Idefinitely think that she's paying attention to what's
being said online. It definitely bothersher at times. Oh yeah, of
course. All right. When wecome back, Nia King is my guest,
licensed clinical social worker. She hasdecided to dedicate her life to helping
(22:07):
children of color, and in fact, the lessons that she's going to share
with us can benefit all children tohave greater emotional intelligence, beginning with emotional
language. When we come back,let's learn about her website, kidonyx dot
com. You're listening to the DoctorWendy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty
(22:27):
We Live Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on
demand from KFI AM six forty.My guest, Nia King, licensed clinical
social worker who has dedicated her lifeto helping kids and particularly children of color.
Now, you mentioned earlier that alot of the tools that existed didn't
(22:49):
have the representation of kids of color. What kind of tools are you talking
about that are helping kids' mental health. So with working with who are as
young as five years old, alot of therapy is really teaching them about
emotions. And during the pandemic,I had to get real creative because I
(23:11):
wasn't able to be there with themin person. So I went through Amazon
and on Google and I'm looking forcoping skills cards, emotion cards, and
I'm looking through them and I'm like, where's the Hispanic children, where's the
Black children. I don't see themrepresented in this area. And I was
(23:33):
just like, we need this forour community. And one of my sorority
sisters is a graphic designer, andI talked to her and I said,
you know, I want to createthese coping skills cards for children of color
and she was like, okay.So we worked on it for a year
and that's when I came up withthe Kings and Queens emotion cards. But
(23:56):
I couldn't really find a lot oftherapy tools that were geared towards people of
color at the time. Let's talkabout the beginning. You mentioned that children
who are as young as five oreven earlier than that, who are just
developing language themselves. The first stepfor all kids is to learn to recognize
their feelings. How do you dothat? Well, you have to show
(24:22):
them the faces, right, becausesocial emotional learning is something that a child
needs so that they can regulate theiremotions as they get older. So a
lot of times what I see parentsdo is when the child makes a certain
face and when they copy their parent, it's like, no, don't do
that. They kind of shut itdown instead of explaining what it is.
(24:45):
Right, And me, as atherapist, I'm helping them recognize the faces.
I'm showing them pictures. I'm showingthem cartoons. Before I had my
cards, I would literally show cartooncharacters and be like, what does that
face look like to you? Andthey would tell me. I'm like have
you ever felt that way? Andthey're like yeah, when this happened.
So it starts very young and probablyeven before or five, because these kids
(25:10):
are having tablets at one years oldwhere they could see all these different things.
So yeah, helping them name thosefeelings right, exactly, helping them
name those feelings because they already havefeeling as soon as they come off the
womb, they're crying, right,so they already have feelings. But it's
about recognizing them and being able tocommunicate them, because a lot of parents
(25:32):
will come to me and they're like, oh, my child is throwing tantrums,
my child is having these crying spills, and I can't get them to
calm down. I don't know what'swrong with them. It's like, okay,
so let's help them learn how toverbalize what it is that they're feeling,
so then maybe you could help thembetter. Right, I'm going to
tell you a wonderful story that willwarm your heart. My youngest kid is
(25:52):
a little bit on the spectrum andhad a classroom aid and a behavior list
when she was in elementary school,and she one of the first things this
behavioralist did is ask her to dodifferent emotions with her own face and take
photographs and then she put them onher desk under like laminated and tape,
and so whenever she would be frustratedand couldn't find her words, all she
(26:17):
would do is point to the faceof what she was feeling, and the
aide knew, Okay, she needsa break, needs to go out outside
and do cartwheels, or she needsthis or needs that. And to this
day, I think she has moreinsight and emotional intelligence than most people because
at an early age she learned toidentify her own feelings right right, it
(26:40):
starts. It starts there. Andone of the first clients that I ever
had was only two years old andhe was autistic and he was nonverbal.
Well at the time they thought hewas nonverbal, but pictures and getting him
to recognize those pictures is what hadhim say his first words. So it's
(27:00):
like that repetition and that those picturesand things that are familiar with them,
that that's that first step. AndI do want to say this that every
human of every age could stand toimprove their emotional intelligence. And I want
to remind everybody I say this allthe time that it's a three prong thing
(27:22):
versus recognizing your own feelings and thenlearning to express them in language, and
the third piece is recognizing them inothers so that you can be emotionally mature
and have some empathy for others' experiences. I think it is great work that
you are doing. Niah King,thank you so much for helping out children.
Where can people go to find outmore or reach you? They can
(27:47):
go on kidonyx dot com and Iam also on Instagram at underscore kid Onyx,
and I'm also on TikTok Underscore kidOnyx and I will post every week
post coping Skills of the Week.I post when I have new products,
and I also have a private practicethat I see children through, so I'm
(28:11):
very reachable. You can definitely findme on those platforms and reach out to
me if you're interested in the productor if you're just interested in getting your
child in therapy. That's that's whatI do. And we thank Simone Biles
and maybe even the movie Inside Outfor starting to destigmatize therapy. I'm speaking
as the beneficiary of eighteen years oftherapy myself, so I know how what
(28:36):
enormous change and joy that it cancreate. Although I always say to people,
you know, therapy doesn't make happy, it makes you real, right,
Absolutely, being authentic is what it'sabout. Nia King, thank you
so much for joining us on theDoctor Wendy Wall Show. Thank you for
that you are welcome and that bringsthe Doctor Wendy Wall Show to a close.
(28:59):
You can always follow me on mysocial media. The handle is at
doctor Wendy Walsh and a reminder,I have a wonderful Patreon group we meet
every Wednesday. A lot of KFIlisteners there. You are welcome to join
up. That's Patreon dot com slashDoctor Wendy Walsh, but I'm always here
for you every Sunday from seven tonine pm on KFI. You've been listening
(29:19):
to the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show onKFI Am six forty live everywhere on the
iHeartRadio app. You've been listening toDoctor Wendy Walsh. You can always hear
us live on KFI AM six fortyfrom seven to nine pm on Sunday and
anytime on demand on the iHeartRadio app
This is doctor Wendy Walsh and you'relistening to KFI AM six forty the Doctor
Wendy Walsh Show on demand on theiHeartRadio app. Doctor Wendy Walsh with you.
This is the Doctor Wendy Waalsh Show, and this is the time of
my show where I answer your relationshipquestions. Reminder, I'm not a therapist.
I'm a psychology professor. I dohave a PhD in clinical psychology.
(00:21):
I've written three books on relationships anddid a dissertation on attachment theory because I'm
obsessed with the science of love.I've also had a lifetime of experience.
I've been everything. I've been agirlfriend, I've been a wife, I've
been a divorce a I've been amistress, I have been a single mom.
I have been everything and in everysituation. So let me weigh in.
(00:45):
If you'd like to send me aDM We're going to social media this
week. Just go to my Instagramat doctor Wendy Walsh and type away.
I will keep your identity a secret. Okay, here we go. Hey,
Doctor Wendy, whenever me and mygirlfriend argue, she hits really low
behind the belt. I think youmean metaphorically, she calls me miserable because
(01:07):
oh I had debilitating depression for afew months. She brings up things that
I told her in confidence. Isthis something someone will grow out of?
Or are we just not meant tobe? Is that always the question?
Like? Is it going to work? Is it not? So it sounds
like she is trying to hurt you. She's betraying your trust. She's taking
(01:34):
your vulnerability and turning it around andusing it as a weapon. So my
first bit of advice is to tellher about it and set up a boundary
that says something like, you knowwhat, the next time you bring up
my depression, I'm going to endthe conversation and leave the room and we'll
have a conversation another time. Right, a boundary is protecting yourself. It's
(01:57):
not trying to get somebody else tobehave It's about what you need to do
to keep yourself emotionally safe. Oryou might say something like, you know,
there are lots of tender things I'veshared with you. If you continue
to choose to use them as weapons, then we're not going to be able
to continue right in this relationship orwhatever. I do believe people can change
(02:19):
but they need to be told aheadof time, and they need to have
boundaries followed by consequences. And Ialso highly suggest that the two of you
enter therapy with a licensed clinician sothat you can learn better skills, because
if it continued, my prediction,my personal prediction, would be that it's
(02:42):
not meant to be because you don'tdeserve to be hurt by the secrets you've
shared. Okay, all right,scrolling away, moving on? What have
we got? Uh? Oh,here's an interesting one. So hey,
doctor Wendy. I keep finding evidencethat my boyfriend is cheating. Yet he
(03:02):
explains it away. He claims hekeeps everything I find. He keeps everything
I find is old. Oh andhe just had a life before me.
I have found underwear, pictures,love letters, and so on. My
gut tells me he's lying, Buthow can I know for sure? You
might be surprised by my answer tothis one, which is, can you
(03:27):
trust your gut? You see,here's the thing, you know, Years
and years ago, I had aman who I was counseling, and he
told me that he was telling allthis evidence that he thought his girlfriend was
cheating on him. And I hada supervisor at the time, and she
told me, you know, here'sthe thing. If somebody has an anxious
(03:51):
attachment style and they have high sensitivityto feelings of abandonment, then they're going
to be really vigilant. What isthis? Is this underwear? Is this
a love letter? What could thisbe? Right? So she said she
used the best expression, she goes, trust me, they always find something
to hang their hat on. Inother words, your anxiety might be real
(04:15):
or it might be using all theselittle evidence to just continue with your anxiety.
So I have a few things thatI would say as far as behavior
to do. The first thing is, if he's got this quote unquote underwear,
pictures, love letters or whatever,will he throw them away or is
he hanging on to them for somereason? And why you want to know
(04:36):
about that? And the other thingis how often have you been able to
trust your gut in the past?Has cheating been a thing? Because here's
the thing. I don't mean tosay that people who are cheated on are
responsible for that or to blame forit. However, people who have a
high abandonment anxiety unconscious fall in lovewith cheaters. Like it's like when two
(05:02):
people meet they do a kind ofunconscious handshake, and they're like, Okay,
you promised to treat me like myabandoning daddy. Cool, you're gonna
treat me like my critical mom.Great, we're on. And so they
do this dance of dating. Oh, what movies do you like? What
music do you like? But underneaththey're doing another dance. I call it
(05:23):
the parallel universe. So look aboutyour look at your past. Have you
experienced a lot of cheating? Areyou naturally attracted to cheaters? Is this
what's happening? Because I hear peoplesay I don't know what's wrong. I
always just keep meeting cheaters. Areall people like that? No, you
unconsciously pick them and you fix it. Am I going to therapy? Yes,
(05:44):
it's the advice I give all thetime because I benefit it from it
so much. Going to be andfinding out whether your gut is trustworthy.
That's really the thing, Whether yourgut is trustworthy. All right, So
when we come back, I wantto talk about this next listener who wrote
(06:05):
to me, and I want youto think about this for a minute.
That her significant other, this dudewho says he's her boyfriend, says they're
committed but hasn't introduced her to anybodyin his life yet. Da Da Da
da. Let's talk about what thatmeans when we come back. If you'd
(06:28):
like to send me a DM,the handle is at doctor Wendy Walsh on
Instagram. Okay, we'll be rightback. You're listening to doctor Wendy Walsh
Show. Ok I Am six fortylive everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You're
listening to doctor Wendy Walsh on demandfrom KFI AM six forty. I'm still
answering your direct messages on Instagram.If you'd like to send me one,
(06:53):
the handle is at doctor Wendy Walsh. Okay, says this listener. I
was single for seven years and itwas so low only and hard to connect.
I met a man who is prettyokay. I'm gonna pause right there,
pretty okay. Actually I'm a bigfan of good enough relationships anyway,
so I like that description. However, she continues. He says, we're
(07:16):
in a relationship, but I haven'tmet his friends. He doesn't tell anyone
about me, and he won't postour pictures. I don't want to be
alone again, but I feel abit alone with him. What do I
do? You dump them. I'msorry. I'm just gonna be clear on
this. A guy who says we'rein a relationship but doesn't bring you out
(07:39):
to his tribe, doesn't tell anyoneabout you, doesn't post your pictures,
is either married or seeing four women. Honestly, this is not normal behavior
for people who say they're in arelationship. He's there for the sex,
trust me, dump them, moveon. I rarely say that, but
(08:00):
there's just too much. Uh.Okay, uh, Dear doctor Wendy,
I miss my love. We don'tlive in the same state and we didn't
want a long distance relationship. SoI guess that means you broke up.
Okay. I blocked him because hewas dating and I couldn't stomach it.
Oh so I guess he was postingpictures on social of him dating or whatever.
(08:20):
Should I reach out or stay strongand keep the no contact? Okay?
Just because you miss somebody doesn't meanthat that person is the person for
you. It just means you havea feeling of wanting to be with someone,
a feeling of you know, wantingto be close, a feeling of
(08:41):
loneliness. You know, I've saidthis for years. You know, even
if you're in a bad relationship.After the breakup, you're going to have
to grieve because it's like losing aleg. But don't forget that leg had
gangrene. You don't need it.Okay. So you may miss somebody,
(09:01):
but it's not about him. It'snot because he's great. So yeah,
keep locking him, keep no contact, don't do it all right. These
next two are kind of interesting,and I'm going to read both of them,
and then I want you to thinkabout it. Okay, First one
says my partner has not told hisex wife and the mother of his children
(09:22):
that we're in a relationship. Hesays he doesn't want to upset her because
quote, she's crazy already. Idon't like that language. Is this a
red flag? Or should I stayout of their relationship. I don't know
how long you've been seeing him,but just saying now, Listen to the
next listener who writes me, Hey, doctor Wendy, I'm dating a guy
(09:45):
who's a great dad and he hasa great relationship with his co parent.
I know he'll be a great dadif we ever get to that stage.
However, where's the boundary between greatco parenting and alarming behavior with the ex.
So we see two extremes here.We see one person who says,
I'm not going to tell my exabout you because she's going to be all
upset and that's going to mess thingsup with me and the kids. The
(10:09):
other one who's so close to hisex that you're kind of like a little
bit jealous and envious. There's noone right way to have a relationship,
to have a blended family, todeal with your ex, first of all,
but if you're feeling insecure about someway that your partner is relating with
(10:30):
their ex, then you need totalk about it. Right. So in
the first case with the listener whosays he doesn't want to tell her because
you know she'll get upset, now, he doesn't have to tell her.
He doesn't owe her anything. Nowis the question will she find out?
(10:50):
Because now he's going to introduce youto the kids, And I'm not a
big believer in introducing to the kidsuntil you've been together at least six months,
come on, at least if nota year, get it solid before
you become a revolving Dora of parentalfigures in a kid's life. Okay,
so he doesn't have to tell heranything, the fact that you want him
(11:11):
to tell her tells me that you'reworried that they're too close, that they're
having some kind of intimacy, emotionalintimacy. Okay. The second listener says,
I'm dating a guy who's a greatdad. He has a great relationship
with his co parent. You know, this week Doug em Off's you know
(11:33):
him, he's he's married to Kamala. Right, his ex wife posted how
much how happy she was that Kamalawas such a good stepmother to her kids.
I mean, that is unique,and I think it's wonderful. But
in order to maintain these relationships,you have to also have boundaries. So
(11:54):
it sounds like when you say he'sgot a great relationship with his co parent,
However, where's the boundary between greatco parenting and alarming behavior with the
X? Well, the alarming behavioris if he's betraying confidences about your relationship
with him, right, and ifhe's sharing emotional intimacy with her, if
(12:15):
she's still his kind of like bestfriend and he's combining in her and he
hasn't transferred those feelings to you whereyou are now his secure attachment figure,
then that could be alarming. Thatcould feel alarming, So talk about it,
talk about where the boundaries are.Say things like I don't want you
sharing information about our relationship, etcetera. Uh. Okay, so it's
(12:39):
hard negotiating with an X, butit's possible. One final question before we
go. Dear doctor Wendy, I'mso excited for a first date. This
guy and I have been talking forthree months and we're finally ready to meet
in person. We talk every day. First of all, there's a problem
with that, you guys, Pleasea couple texts, a phone call,
meet for coffee. The whole thingshould take a week before you meet three
(13:03):
months now the anticipation is so high, or if the person's catfishing you,
you're so all in. Oh mygosh, three weeks and you have three
months and you haven't met. Sothen she says, we confirmed our date,
the date of it, but notthe location, And then I haven't
heard anything since, and when Ibring it up, he changes the subject.
Our date is supposed to be tomorrowand we haven't spoken all day.
(13:24):
Is this worth a conversation or shouldI just move on? There's a reason
why he's not meeting you in thereal world. Maybe you should call those
guys from Catfish. Uh And whyno guy waits three months? I'm sorry.
Guys have energy. If they wanta relationship, they want to get
(13:45):
it done, they want to getclose to you. There's some big secret
there. I promise. I thinkI might see you on Catfish someday,
because there's there's some reason three monthsyou've been talking every day, Oh dear,
all right, when we come back. Earlier I talked about Simone Biles
and how proud I am of herbeing what I call a poster child for
mental health. When we come back, a licensed clinical social worker who is
(14:11):
working hard to help children, particularlychildren of color, overcome their own trauma.
You are listening to the Doctor WendyWalsh Show and KFI AM six forty
We Live Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on
demand from KFI AM six forty.Earlier in the show, I talked about
(14:37):
my new heroine, not heroin,heroin, hero hero Okay, she's just
a shiro, Simone Biles and howshe has become such a maverick for an
a poster child for mental health andher own therapeutic process that is taking her
again to hopefully another Olympic gold.She's in number one of the trials so
(15:00):
far, so that's pretty cool.And it made me think about how many
children not only have high ACE scoresyou've heard me talk about ACE scores before,
adverse childhood experiences, but also realtrauma. And we know remember a
(15:22):
few weeks ago, I had aguy on my show who was the researcher
who developed the whole idea of journalingand language, and he found that the
trauma stays in the body if itis not expressed. It is the words
that help us heal. My nextguest works with children, particularly children of
(15:43):
color, to help them find thosewords. I'd like to introduce Nia King,
a licensed clinical social worker and herwebsite is called kidonyx dot com.
Nia, Welcome to the show.Hello, doctor Wendy. Tell me about
(16:03):
your journey and why you decided tofocus particularly on this area which is growing
emotional intelligence and emotional vocabulary in childrenof color. Well, a child like
myself, I was very talkative.I would talk back a lot, I
would get in trouble a lot inschool, and I always wondered if I
(16:27):
would have had better emotional regulation orbetter coping skills would have gotten in that
much trouble. So that kind ofinspired me to become a therapist because I
always wanted to help children so thatthey wouldn't have to go through the same
things that I went through as achild, and I always had a passion
(16:49):
for it. I always had alove for it. And during the beginning
of my career, I was workingin Englewood and Los Angeles, and I
noticed that a lot of the theirtools didn't have any children of color in
them, or even if they did, it would be like one or two
pictures of them in it. AndI'm thinking, if we're trying to get
the next generation comfortable with mental healthor comfortable with therapy, it has to
(17:15):
start from a young age. Sothat's how kid Onyx kind of came to
mind, And I said, whydo I make it a cartoon, Make
it fun, make it entertaining sothat kids will be drawn to it.
And that is how I came upwith my first Kings and Queens emotion cards.
(17:36):
But before we get to the detailsof kid Onyx and how it works,
now, you mentioned something a momentago about beginning your career in Inglewood
historically African American community in Los Angeles, and I want you to talk a
little about a bit about the stigmathat still exists regarding therapy in the Africa
(18:00):
in American community. Is it changing, I would say yes and no,
because coming out of grad school,I saw a lot of black therapists and
black people talking about, you know, mental wealth and therapy and coping skills.
And even in some of the TVshows, a lot of the black
(18:21):
TV shows, they have a therapiston there. But in reality, the
children are still thinking that if Ihave a therapist, that means I'm crazy,
or the parents are still telling me, oh, it's nothing wrong with
my child. They're not crazy.They don't need to talk to you.
So in theory, it looks likewe're getting better at it, but in
(18:45):
reality, in Los Angeles and Inglewood, it's still a little bit of a
hesitance towards therapy because it's still astigma. The stigma still exists. And
as another a colleague of mine,a person of color, said to me
once, if you say that you'renot feeling well in the head, they
just tell you. Your community tellsyou just go to church and get on
(19:06):
your knees then, so the competitionis with religiosity, right, right,
And I always tell people, youknow, religion is great, that's a
great coping skill. Prayer is great, but also let's incorporate some therapy as
well, Like why can't we doboth? When you saw the reports of
(19:27):
Simone Biles coming out talking about herrecovery from her mental health crisis through the
use of therapy, and also shecouldn't take medication because they test them for
drugs, right, So what wasyour first reaction when you heard about this.
I'm not really surprised that she struggledmentally because she's been ridiculed, you
(19:52):
know, and talked about a nationaltelevision for the past Harvard many years her
career has been and when you're anathlete on that level, you know,
it's almost like can I do thisagain? You almost get like imposter syndrome
because you've done so great in yourcareer and it's like how long can I
keep this up? So for Iknow a lot of black women in general,
(20:15):
like we are you know, themost educated, and we have the
most entrepreneurs and businesses, but we'realways trying to do more because it's like
as soon as we make it towhere we want to be, it's like,
Okay, how can I sustain this? Or am I going to be
able to top this? So it'sreally I mean, it's sad, but
(20:37):
it's not surprising to me that shestruggled. Because she's on such a high
level and the world is watching her. It also makes me wonder and as
a licensed clinical social worker, I'msure you can comment on this whether the
criticism online is a triggering of earlytrauma. I mean, here's a young
woman who's there's no secret her parentsstruggled with addiction, her mother lost custody
(21:00):
of her, she was put intofoster care, and then eventually adopted by
her grandparents. Later notoriously, shewas a sexual assault victim of the famous
team doctor Larry Nasser, and soshe's been very public about having gone through
this. But I'm wondering if thepressure to perform and the pressure to get
(21:22):
criticized, the pressure from the criticismonline, does that trigger some of this
earlier trauma. I would say itdepends on the person, but for her,
at the level that she's at,I'm sure it's gotten to her because
I even remember when she did aninterview with her husband, and there was
so much ridicule about that that shespoke out about it. She was like,
(21:45):
I see what you guys are saying, and I love my husband.
You guys are wrong. So Idefinitely think that she's paying attention to what's
being said online. It definitely bothersher at times. Oh yeah, of
course. All right. When wecome back, Nia King is my guest,
licensed clinical social worker. She hasdecided to dedicate her life to helping
(22:07):
children of color, and in fact, the lessons that she's going to share
with us can benefit all children tohave greater emotional intelligence, beginning with emotional
language. When we come back,let's learn about her website, kidonyx dot
com. You're listening to the DoctorWendy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty
(22:27):
We Live Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on
demand from KFI AM six forty.My guest, Nia King, licensed clinical
social worker who has dedicated her lifeto helping kids and particularly children of color.
Now, you mentioned earlier that alot of the tools that existed didn't
(22:49):
have the representation of kids of color. What kind of tools are you talking
about that are helping kids' mental health. So with working with who are as
young as five years old, alot of therapy is really teaching them about
emotions. And during the pandemic,I had to get real creative because I
(23:11):
wasn't able to be there with themin person. So I went through Amazon
and on Google and I'm looking forcoping skills cards, emotion cards, and
I'm looking through them and I'm like, where's the Hispanic children, where's the
Black children. I don't see themrepresented in this area. And I was
(23:33):
just like, we need this forour community. And one of my sorority
sisters is a graphic designer, andI talked to her and I said,
you know, I want to createthese coping skills cards for children of color
and she was like, okay.So we worked on it for a year
and that's when I came up withthe Kings and Queens emotion cards. But
(23:56):
I couldn't really find a lot oftherapy tools that were geared towards people of
color at the time. Let's talkabout the beginning. You mentioned that children
who are as young as five oreven earlier than that, who are just
developing language themselves. The first stepfor all kids is to learn to recognize
their feelings. How do you dothat? Well, you have to show
(24:22):
them the faces, right, becausesocial emotional learning is something that a child
needs so that they can regulate theiremotions as they get older. So a
lot of times what I see parentsdo is when the child makes a certain
face and when they copy their parent, it's like, no, don't do
that. They kind of shut itdown instead of explaining what it is.
(24:45):
Right, And me, as atherapist, I'm helping them recognize the faces.
I'm showing them pictures. I'm showingthem cartoons. Before I had my
cards, I would literally show cartooncharacters and be like, what does that
face look like to you? Andthey would tell me. I'm like have
you ever felt that way? Andthey're like yeah, when this happened.
So it starts very young and probablyeven before or five, because these kids
(25:10):
are having tablets at one years oldwhere they could see all these different things.
So yeah, helping them name thosefeelings right, exactly, helping them
name those feelings because they already havefeeling as soon as they come off the
womb, they're crying, right,so they already have feelings. But it's
about recognizing them and being able tocommunicate them, because a lot of parents
(25:32):
will come to me and they're like, oh, my child is throwing tantrums,
my child is having these crying spills, and I can't get them to
calm down. I don't know what'swrong with them. It's like, okay,
so let's help them learn how toverbalize what it is that they're feeling,
so then maybe you could help thembetter. Right, I'm going to
tell you a wonderful story that willwarm your heart. My youngest kid is
(25:52):
a little bit on the spectrum andhad a classroom aid and a behavior list
when she was in elementary school,and she one of the first things this
behavioralist did is ask her to dodifferent emotions with her own face and take
photographs and then she put them onher desk under like laminated and tape,
and so whenever she would be frustratedand couldn't find her words, all she
(26:17):
would do is point to the faceof what she was feeling, and the
aide knew, Okay, she needsa break, needs to go out outside
and do cartwheels, or she needsthis or needs that. And to this
day, I think she has moreinsight and emotional intelligence than most people because
at an early age she learned toidentify her own feelings right right, it
(26:40):
starts. It starts there. Andone of the first clients that I ever
had was only two years old andhe was autistic and he was nonverbal.
Well at the time they thought hewas nonverbal, but pictures and getting him
to recognize those pictures is what hadhim say his first words. So it's
(27:00):
like that repetition and that those picturesand things that are familiar with them,
that that's that first step. AndI do want to say this that every
human of every age could stand toimprove their emotional intelligence. And I want
to remind everybody I say this allthe time that it's a three prong thing
(27:22):
versus recognizing your own feelings and thenlearning to express them in language, and
the third piece is recognizing them inothers so that you can be emotionally mature
and have some empathy for others' experiences. I think it is great work that
you are doing. Niah King,thank you so much for helping out children.
Where can people go to find outmore or reach you? They can
(27:47):
go on kidonyx dot com and Iam also on Instagram at underscore kid Onyx,
and I'm also on TikTok Underscore kidOnyx and I will post every week
post coping Skills of the Week.I post when I have new products,
and I also have a private practicethat I see children through, so I'm
(28:11):
very reachable. You can definitely findme on those platforms and reach out to
me if you're interested in the productor if you're just interested in getting your
child in therapy. That's that's whatI do. And we thank Simone Biles
and maybe even the movie Inside Outfor starting to destigmatize therapy. I'm speaking
as the beneficiary of eighteen years oftherapy myself, so I know how what
(28:36):
enormous change and joy that it cancreate. Although I always say to people,
you know, therapy doesn't make happy, it makes you real, right,
Absolutely, being authentic is what it'sabout. Nia King, thank you
so much for joining us on theDoctor Wendy Wall Show. Thank you for
that you are welcome and that bringsthe Doctor Wendy Wall Show to a close.
(28:59):
You can always follow me on mysocial media. The handle is at
doctor Wendy Walsh and a reminder,I have a wonderful Patreon group we meet
every Wednesday. A lot of KFIlisteners there. You are welcome to join
up. That's Patreon dot com slashDoctor Wendy Walsh, but I'm always here
for you every Sunday from seven tonine pm on KFI. You've been listening
(29:19):
to the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show onKFI Am six forty live everywhere on the
iHeartRadio app. You've been listening toDoctor Wendy Walsh. You can always hear
us live on KFI AM six fortyfrom seven to nine pm on Sunday and
anytime on demand on the iHeartRadio app
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