October 19, 2025 • 26 mins
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to KFI on demand. So our traditions good?
Are traditions bad? Sounds like a line out of the
Wizard of Oz? Are you a good tradition or a
bad tradition? Traditions can be wonderful. Traditions often propel the past.
(00:26):
They help you understand from where you've come, give you
insight and a little bit of direction as to where
you're going. They preserve the rich history of something. They
promote the ideas of the elders, those that came before you.
They help you appreciate the complexity or the time that
(00:51):
it's taken to create or promote an idea, a process.
And I think if you don't understand truly the traditions
of your beliefs, your church, there's a loss there. You
(01:18):
can't take for granted the steps that were taken to
get you where you are now. If you can imagine
trying to step from the bottom rung of ladder to
the very top rung of ladder without hitting any of
those steps in between, that's what happens if you just
(01:39):
go with a broadsword and cut out tradition. Interestingly enough,
a friend of the program, he was talking about generation
talking about this particular generation of young people who attach
(02:03):
themselves to their electronics and their gizmos and their gadgets,
and they're texting, and they lose a good chunk of
their heritage speaking, their ability to use proper grammar, all
of these things because of the condensing properties of technology.
(02:25):
And by condensing, I mean that you don't need to
expand yourself in any way, shape or form. You don't
have to have contact. Think about all the different things,
the traditions that are removed from life because of the
convenience of technology. You don't have to talk to somebody
when you go to the bank, you can go to
the machine outside. You don't have to talk to somebody
when you fill up your tank because you can fill
(02:46):
it up right there at the gas pump, slide your card.
Even the greetings or communication that take place when you
go through a grocery store are limited because of electronics.
Have you swipe. And now in addition to that, they
have the little areas, the kiosks where you can check
yourself out here, here's here's a here's a station where
(03:12):
you don't have to talk to another living soul. But
those traditions were not just the lack of technology. They
were the importance built upon the importance of merchant ship
and interacting with one another and being citizens. And when
(03:34):
it comes to God, when it comes to scripture and
the things of God, the traditions that are passed down.
And I know that there's some of you that butt
heads with one another on the different traditions that there
that are out there, and some are good and some
are bad. Some can actually be like a millstone and
weight you down your faith because you forget that the
(03:55):
purpose of the tradition is to propel and to remind
you from where you came. But it should never supersede
or impede progress. My producer, Neil recalls a time when
(04:18):
he was in a church that had no musical instruments
that were amplified. He told me that he spoke with
the pastor of the church and he said, I noticed
that you didn't have any you know, any instruments that
were amplified, or any electric guitars or anything. And he said,
that's not how it was in the original church, so
(04:42):
I don't want it here at my church. So in effect,
he was saying, that is not the tradition. Therefore I
don't want that here. My producer tells me that he
looked at the pastor and replied, then why do you
(05:02):
use a microphone? You see, there are some traditions that
you may hold on to that may not have a purpose.
You think they might, but you hold on to them
for the mere fact that their tradition, and that is
of no benefit to anyone, and it certainly is not
a benefit to the church. If you're new to this program,
(05:25):
you must know one thing. The importance and the purpose
of this program is to propel and perpetuate the ideas
of Christianity. However, our desire is to do it in
a way that's different because the traditions don't always work.
(05:51):
The traditional way of doing things don't always compel, and
sometimes look archaic and get left behind. And that's not
to say that you take scissors to scripture and take
out what you don't like, or just say well that
was then, this is now. That's not what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is understand the purpose of traditions. If
(06:14):
you remember it, and you can read this in Mark seven,
I was constantly being poked at, pradded tested by the
religious leaders of my day. Two thousand years ago. Everywhere
I went, somebody was trying to corner me, to get
(06:36):
me to make some statement, some contradictory statement, something that
would cause an uproar, either in the Roman community or
in the Jewish community. And a lot of the things
that were asked of me, and a lot of the
opportunities that were taken were really based on tradition. What
(06:59):
do you think of this tradition? What do you think
of that tradition? And in March seven you can read
in verse one that the Pharisees and also at the
time some of the scribes were coming together and they
were focused on me. As they started to gather around me,
they had some questions, as they are one to do.
(07:26):
And one of these questions and to deal with why
my disciples were eating their bread with impure hands. Now,
not to get totally into what impure hands deal with,
I mean, there was a ceremonial washing that would take
place with a handful of water, especially if you just
(07:46):
came from the marketplace, and that you might be mixing
with things unclean, maybe gentile things, money, utensils, any of
those things. The tradition was to wash your hands. Now,
our Jewish brothers and sisters. If you go back into
(08:07):
a lot of their ceremonial and traditional laws, you'll find
that they were way ahead of their time as far
as hygiene and intellectually being able to understand the importance
of cleanliness, separating where you eat versus where you give waste.
(08:30):
Very smart the Pharisees in this situation, however, we're not
seeing if you could imagine the balance and the importance
and the difference between the tradition of cleaning your hands
and the importance and necessity of eating. And sometimes, unfortunately,
I find that to be the same in the Body
(08:51):
of Christ. You focus on these traditions, and sometimes you're
so focused on the tradition, so lost in those things
of old, that you can't move forward, that you'd rather
not eat at all and die spiritually because of the
(09:17):
tradition of the cleansing of the hands, and you don't
understand and weigh the importance and the balance between the two.
It should always propel you. Yes, having clean hands is
important when you eat, but not more important than eating.
(09:43):
Traditions do they add to the church, do they push
the church? Do they help grow the church? Or do
they hinder the church? Well, they answer to both of
those questions is yes, you have to to look. You
can't just give value to tradition because it's tradition. There's
(10:06):
many traditions that should be abolished or were okay for
a time because of some sort of contingency or something
that was going on and that has since changed. But
the traditions are there to show the process, that process
(10:27):
that took you from point A to point B, and
you should should give reverence to that process, but never
let it impede on the growth of the church. I
see so many stubborn church leaders that don't want to
reach out to the community or to the young people
(10:51):
because they it's like, that's not how we did it.
That's not how it was when I grew up. Well,
things change, Things change. I remember a Native American who
called the program, and maybe you remember as well. Some
years ago a sweet, sweet man called up and said
(11:16):
that that he wanted to seek out Christianity, that he
was curious, but that it went against the traditions of
his people. And I asked him how many rooms were
in his teepee, and he paused and replied, I don't
(11:43):
sleep in a teepee. And I said, why not. It
is a tradition. And you see the Native American people
slept in teepees because that was an efficient way then
(12:03):
not now culture the things the traditions. Culture and tradition
both come from the supply and demand, a need, a
scouting around the area, seeing what you have supply wise
to fill that need and filling that need. That's why
when you look at certain regional foods, they are based
(12:25):
on the supplies that they had. And now the tradition
is passed down and it's wonderful and say this is
what we cook. But as things change and import and
export and all of these things, so can culture change.
Culture is supposed to change, and so are traditions. Jesse,
(12:45):
Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Good morning, Jesus. I love your show.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Thank you so much. I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Jesus. I have a question. My father is a Catholic,
and whether it's the Jehovah witness and I know how
you kind of feel about the Jehovah witnesses. But with
that being said, I take my parents to church. My
mother's eighty three, my dad's eighty six, and so I
have to take them both every Sunday, which I don't mind.
(13:14):
But one day I was at the Jehovah Witness church
and the elder at the podium just all of a
sudden said, after you've finished with the sermon and whatever
he said, so and so is no longer Jehovah Witness.
And everybody was just like, what just happened? What's your
(13:35):
thought on the schellowshipping people?
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Well, I certainly don't speak to the theology or the
structure of the Jovah's Witness belief system, and it is not
the belief system of this radio program or its producers,
so and not one that this program or its radio
producers would recommend. So having said that, they have their
(14:04):
own system in which they adhere to, in their own
system in which they teach, and they control the structure
of their church body, it doesn't mean that others don't.
Even Catholicism. You can be communicated from Catholicism, and there
are other church Protestants in nature that would ask somebody
(14:28):
to leave the church. It's contingent upon what the structure
and the rules of that particular church are and how
they feel to you know, execute them in the process
of teaching. So it's up to them. It's their world
and or their new world as the case maybe, but
(14:50):
it's their world and they can make their structure anyway
they wish. There is a time, and there is script
references when people were ostracized or allowed to go or
asked to go to get clarity in their life before
they come back and bring doubt or ugliness or bitterness
(15:14):
into the church. And I think it's although I may
not agree with the reasons they're doing it for or
the way they're doing it, I think sometimes there's wounds
that you mend and there's wounds that you amputate in life.
Otherwise if you don't amputate them, they make the whole
body sick. And I think that that you and I
(15:34):
may not agree with the reasons they did it, but
the premise is still a legitimate one, and that is
sometimes you have to protect the many from the one.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
I understand. By the way, my mother loves your show too.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Well, that's nice to hear the show is.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yes, he always listens to you every time I have
the wadi. What do you listening to Jesus In the
first she got upset Jesus. Oh yeah, Mom, is just
it's just it's just the radio station. The guy is
very knowledgeable, and she loves your show, and my dad
loves your show. And my mom said, ze Joe, see
this is what he says. Well, all right, thank you
Jesus for your question, I mean, for your answer.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
My pleasure. I'm honored when anybody takes the time to listen.
But we're also very honest as to the point of
view and where we come from, so that people don't
get confused, and there is We try and focus on
the things that we agree on, then the things we
disagree on. But the truth of the matter is that
(16:35):
when someone is excommunicated from a church, the church has
that right based on whatever their structure is, as long
as everybody knows it going into it. Then they're signing
off on that saying Okay, I won't do that, or
I won't partake in those things, or I won't be
a part of that, or bring that into the church
or the Kingdom hall or whatever it is. And in
(16:56):
that agreement, you're allowing the church to discipline you in
the way they see fit, and that is okay. I
wouldn't always agree. There are many groups and churches that
excommunicate or kick people out for reasons I think are acidine,
but they go into it knowing that that's the I
(17:21):
see this in Catholicism A lot a lot of people
say I'm a Catholic, but I don't believe X, Y,
and Z, and it's like, well, that's not really fair,
because that's what Catholicism is. If you just don't want
to drop the name Catholicism because you're attached to it,
then you know, say I'm a social Catholic or something.
Use a modifier. Otherwise it's not fair to the church.
(17:43):
They are trying to keep a belief system alive, and
they're the ones that are allowed to make the rules.
And you can either be a part of it or
not be a part of it. But when you kind
of try and be a part of it and then
go by your own rules, the church organization has the
right to say bye, we don't want you involved with us. Greg,
(18:09):
Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
First of all, thank you very much for taking my call.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Oh my pleasure. How can I help?
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Yes, I have a question, and I got a second
part of that question. First of all, I would like
to know who the Holy Ghost is. And is it
true that the Holy Ghost is the body, Jesus is
the heart, and the brain is God.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
No, okay, that is at best. That is something called
an economic trinity. That's when somebody tries to make an
analogy for people to understand the Trinity in a way
that is in the physical realm or things like that,
and what happens is it breaks down because it's the
(19:00):
that's not the case. Now, it may help people understand, well,
you know, this is kind of the positioning and how
they work, but the reality is they're all equal. Now,
your heart, your body, and your mind are all equal
in the sense that you can't live with one or
the other. They all have to be tied to one another.
(19:21):
So there are parts of that analogy that might run
or have some legs to him, but ultimately, when you
start breaking it down, it doesn't make sense because the
positions being different doesn't mean that the substance is different.
So the Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity,
and the Holy Spirit has very specific duties if you will,
(19:46):
and responsibilities and focus. But as far as being equal
with the Father and the Son, Scripture says absolutely Matthew
twenty nineteen Sewo Corinthians thirteen fourteen. The Holy Spirit is
equal with the Father and the Son. The Holy Spirit
was there at creation, the Holy Spirit was there at
(20:07):
every major event. It's not like, oh, well, the Holy Spirit,
we don't really need him right now. But the position,
the focus of the Holy Spirit is specific, just like
the Son, and just like the Father, have specific things,
(20:27):
things that are done. So the Holy Spirit gave Christians gifts,
whether prophecy, healing miracles. I said when I departed, the
Holy Spirit's going to come and dwell in every believer.
The Holy Spirit's referred to as the comforter or the helper.
And so the way some people describe it theologically, to
(20:49):
kind of wrap your mind around it, is the Holy
Spirit brings you to me, I bring you to the Father.
So there's that that process that moves you forward and
in position that essentially, the Holy Spirit is that experiential
(21:11):
side to your faith here on earth. But it's God
one percent. And even in that concept saying it's it's
a he, it'd be a he the same way you
would refer to me as a he or to the
Father as a he. Not because of gender but because
of the terms that are used in scripture, so it
(21:35):
is a person. It's the person of the Holy Spirit.
And people get confused because Father's son you can personify,
but Holy Spirit seems ambiguous and kind of ethereal and
floating and all of those things. But the Holy Spirit
is a personage, a person of the Trinity, the third
person of the Trinity, not the body.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
It was never explained that way to me. I think
I'm understanding.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
It's a weird that the Trinity is complicated in some
ways because it's not something it's not something that you
can put in a box the same way. And although
there are things you can look at on Earth that
point to the concept of a trinity or one thing
(22:26):
in three natures. There's something called the triple point of
water where at one point, in one moment, water is
solid liquid and in gas form, and there are there's
the concept of time. Time is one thing. It's time
(22:47):
in three yesterday, today, and tomorrow, or past, present and future.
You can't separate them. You can use a clock to
try and do that, or you can use the sun
rises and goes down, but really you're not separating time
because it's different to other people. And you could change
a clock, you put more hours on it if you
want to do, or you could do whatever you want.
Doesn't change time. Time is what it is. It's simultaneously
(23:11):
three and simultaneously one. But it doesn't mean that it's easy.
And for some reason though, it's one of the attributes
of God that everybody gets stuck on. Yet there are
all kinds of attributes of God that nobody understands, like
omnicience or omnipotence or any of the omni attributes being
(23:33):
everywhere at once knowing everything. You can't comprehend that either.
But it is what it is, and that's what separates God.
And in the case of the Holy Trinity, there is
something special in the Christian belief system because you're dealing
with one God in three persons, and in this case,
(23:54):
the Holy Spirit's role in the entire dance is to
woo and to comfort and to bring you into the
understanding of the Son, which is the bridge between the
sin of mankind, to bring them back to the Father.
(24:15):
But because the Father and the Son are such human analogs,
and you look back and you go, okay, that makes sense.
It's people put those into categories very simply, and then
when you get to the Holy Spirit, people over complicated
because well, what's the Holy Spirit. I know what a
father is and what a son is, but technically the
father is not a father the way you think a
(24:37):
father is, and the son is not a son the
way you think a son is, except in the physical
sense to marry. So I know it gets complicated and weird,
but it's not really something you'll ever truly understand. But
it's not something that should be put in a box
like that. Well, it's the body, and then the heart
(24:59):
is the sun, and the mind is God. That's sort
of just pointing at the positions and the things on
their to do list. I suppose that we have to
do every single day. We get a lot of questions here.
That's why we're here. We gather once a week to
(25:23):
not just look at the problems, but to look at solutions.
And when it comes to the concept of God and
who God is and the meaning and all those things,
they can be difficult at times, but I don't want
that to stop you from applying yourself to learn more.
Could you imagine if you had to understand every working,
(25:46):
every inner, working, every hose, every piston, every part of
the combustion engine. Before you started your car, there's a
you wouldn't get very far, would you? Some of you would,
but there's there's more two understanding things to that depth
(26:10):
rather than understanding how things are to be worked. So,
for instance, there's a difference to know how computers work
versus how to work a computer. And the beginning steps
really for your faith are to learn what God wants
from you and how that process works. As God continues
(26:34):
to shed a layer and a layer and a layer
of understanding progressively as you can take it.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
KFI AM six forty on demand
You're listening to KFI on demand. So our traditions good?
Are traditions bad? Sounds like a line out of the
Wizard of Oz? Are you a good tradition or a
bad tradition? Traditions can be wonderful. Traditions often propel the past.
(00:26):
They help you understand from where you've come, give you
insight and a little bit of direction as to where
you're going. They preserve the rich history of something. They
promote the ideas of the elders, those that came before you.
They help you appreciate the complexity or the time that
(00:51):
it's taken to create or promote an idea, a process.
And I think if you don't understand truly the traditions
of your beliefs, your church, there's a loss there. You
(01:18):
can't take for granted the steps that were taken to
get you where you are now. If you can imagine
trying to step from the bottom rung of ladder to
the very top rung of ladder without hitting any of
those steps in between, that's what happens if you just
(01:39):
go with a broadsword and cut out tradition. Interestingly enough,
a friend of the program, he was talking about generation
talking about this particular generation of young people who attach
(02:03):
themselves to their electronics and their gizmos and their gadgets,
and they're texting, and they lose a good chunk of
their heritage speaking, their ability to use proper grammar, all
of these things because of the condensing properties of technology.
(02:25):
And by condensing, I mean that you don't need to
expand yourself in any way, shape or form. You don't
have to have contact. Think about all the different things,
the traditions that are removed from life because of the
convenience of technology. You don't have to talk to somebody
when you go to the bank, you can go to
the machine outside. You don't have to talk to somebody
when you fill up your tank because you can fill
(02:46):
it up right there at the gas pump, slide your card.
Even the greetings or communication that take place when you
go through a grocery store are limited because of electronics.
Have you swipe. And now in addition to that, they
have the little areas, the kiosks where you can check
yourself out here, here's here's a here's a station where
(03:12):
you don't have to talk to another living soul. But
those traditions were not just the lack of technology. They
were the importance built upon the importance of merchant ship
and interacting with one another and being citizens. And when
(03:34):
it comes to God, when it comes to scripture and
the things of God, the traditions that are passed down.
And I know that there's some of you that butt
heads with one another on the different traditions that there
that are out there, and some are good and some
are bad. Some can actually be like a millstone and
weight you down your faith because you forget that the
(03:55):
purpose of the tradition is to propel and to remind
you from where you came. But it should never supersede
or impede progress. My producer, Neil recalls a time when
(04:18):
he was in a church that had no musical instruments
that were amplified. He told me that he spoke with
the pastor of the church and he said, I noticed
that you didn't have any you know, any instruments that
were amplified, or any electric guitars or anything. And he said,
that's not how it was in the original church, so
(04:42):
I don't want it here at my church. So in effect,
he was saying, that is not the tradition. Therefore I
don't want that here. My producer tells me that he
looked at the pastor and replied, then why do you
(05:02):
use a microphone? You see, there are some traditions that
you may hold on to that may not have a purpose.
You think they might, but you hold on to them
for the mere fact that their tradition, and that is
of no benefit to anyone, and it certainly is not
a benefit to the church. If you're new to this program,
(05:25):
you must know one thing. The importance and the purpose
of this program is to propel and perpetuate the ideas
of Christianity. However, our desire is to do it in
a way that's different because the traditions don't always work.
(05:51):
The traditional way of doing things don't always compel, and
sometimes look archaic and get left behind. And that's not
to say that you take scissors to scripture and take
out what you don't like, or just say well that
was then, this is now. That's not what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is understand the purpose of traditions. If
(06:14):
you remember it, and you can read this in Mark seven,
I was constantly being poked at, pradded tested by the
religious leaders of my day. Two thousand years ago. Everywhere
I went, somebody was trying to corner me, to get
(06:36):
me to make some statement, some contradictory statement, something that
would cause an uproar, either in the Roman community or
in the Jewish community. And a lot of the things
that were asked of me, and a lot of the
opportunities that were taken were really based on tradition. What
(06:59):
do you think of this tradition? What do you think
of that tradition? And in March seven you can read
in verse one that the Pharisees and also at the
time some of the scribes were coming together and they
were focused on me. As they started to gather around me,
they had some questions, as they are one to do.
(07:26):
And one of these questions and to deal with why
my disciples were eating their bread with impure hands. Now,
not to get totally into what impure hands deal with,
I mean, there was a ceremonial washing that would take
place with a handful of water, especially if you just
(07:46):
came from the marketplace, and that you might be mixing
with things unclean, maybe gentile things, money, utensils, any of
those things. The tradition was to wash your hands. Now,
our Jewish brothers and sisters. If you go back into
(08:07):
a lot of their ceremonial and traditional laws, you'll find
that they were way ahead of their time as far
as hygiene and intellectually being able to understand the importance
of cleanliness, separating where you eat versus where you give waste.
(08:30):
Very smart the Pharisees in this situation, however, we're not
seeing if you could imagine the balance and the importance
and the difference between the tradition of cleaning your hands
and the importance and necessity of eating. And sometimes, unfortunately,
I find that to be the same in the Body
(08:51):
of Christ. You focus on these traditions, and sometimes you're
so focused on the tradition, so lost in those things
of old, that you can't move forward, that you'd rather
not eat at all and die spiritually because of the
(09:17):
tradition of the cleansing of the hands, and you don't
understand and weigh the importance and the balance between the two.
It should always propel you. Yes, having clean hands is
important when you eat, but not more important than eating.
(09:43):
Traditions do they add to the church, do they push
the church? Do they help grow the church? Or do
they hinder the church? Well, they answer to both of
those questions is yes, you have to to look. You
can't just give value to tradition because it's tradition. There's
(10:06):
many traditions that should be abolished or were okay for
a time because of some sort of contingency or something
that was going on and that has since changed. But
the traditions are there to show the process, that process
(10:27):
that took you from point A to point B, and
you should should give reverence to that process, but never
let it impede on the growth of the church. I
see so many stubborn church leaders that don't want to
reach out to the community or to the young people
(10:51):
because they it's like, that's not how we did it.
That's not how it was when I grew up. Well,
things change, Things change. I remember a Native American who
called the program, and maybe you remember as well. Some
years ago a sweet, sweet man called up and said
(11:16):
that that he wanted to seek out Christianity, that he
was curious, but that it went against the traditions of
his people. And I asked him how many rooms were
in his teepee, and he paused and replied, I don't
(11:43):
sleep in a teepee. And I said, why not. It
is a tradition. And you see the Native American people
slept in teepees because that was an efficient way then
(12:03):
not now culture the things the traditions. Culture and tradition
both come from the supply and demand, a need, a
scouting around the area, seeing what you have supply wise
to fill that need and filling that need. That's why
when you look at certain regional foods, they are based
(12:25):
on the supplies that they had. And now the tradition
is passed down and it's wonderful and say this is
what we cook. But as things change and import and
export and all of these things, so can culture change.
Culture is supposed to change, and so are traditions. Jesse,
(12:45):
Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Good morning, Jesus. I love your show.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Thank you so much. I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Jesus. I have a question. My father is a Catholic,
and whether it's the Jehovah witness and I know how
you kind of feel about the Jehovah witnesses. But with
that being said, I take my parents to church. My
mother's eighty three, my dad's eighty six, and so I
have to take them both every Sunday, which I don't mind.
(13:14):
But one day I was at the Jehovah Witness church
and the elder at the podium just all of a
sudden said, after you've finished with the sermon and whatever
he said, so and so is no longer Jehovah Witness.
And everybody was just like, what just happened? What's your
(13:35):
thought on the schellowshipping people?
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Well, I certainly don't speak to the theology or the
structure of the Jovah's Witness belief system, and it is not
the belief system of this radio program or its producers,
so and not one that this program or its radio
producers would recommend. So having said that, they have their
(14:04):
own system in which they adhere to, in their own
system in which they teach, and they control the structure
of their church body, it doesn't mean that others don't.
Even Catholicism. You can be communicated from Catholicism, and there
are other church Protestants in nature that would ask somebody
(14:28):
to leave the church. It's contingent upon what the structure
and the rules of that particular church are and how
they feel to you know, execute them in the process
of teaching. So it's up to them. It's their world
and or their new world as the case maybe, but
(14:50):
it's their world and they can make their structure anyway
they wish. There is a time, and there is script
references when people were ostracized or allowed to go or
asked to go to get clarity in their life before
they come back and bring doubt or ugliness or bitterness
(15:14):
into the church. And I think it's although I may
not agree with the reasons they're doing it for or
the way they're doing it, I think sometimes there's wounds
that you mend and there's wounds that you amputate in life.
Otherwise if you don't amputate them, they make the whole
body sick. And I think that that you and I
(15:34):
may not agree with the reasons they did it, but
the premise is still a legitimate one, and that is
sometimes you have to protect the many from the one.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
I understand. By the way, my mother loves your show too.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Well, that's nice to hear the show is.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yes, he always listens to you every time I have
the wadi. What do you listening to Jesus In the
first she got upset Jesus. Oh yeah, Mom, is just
it's just it's just the radio station. The guy is
very knowledgeable, and she loves your show, and my dad
loves your show. And my mom said, ze Joe, see
this is what he says. Well, all right, thank you
Jesus for your question, I mean, for your answer.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
My pleasure. I'm honored when anybody takes the time to listen.
But we're also very honest as to the point of
view and where we come from, so that people don't
get confused, and there is We try and focus on
the things that we agree on, then the things we
disagree on. But the truth of the matter is that
(16:35):
when someone is excommunicated from a church, the church has
that right based on whatever their structure is, as long
as everybody knows it going into it. Then they're signing
off on that saying Okay, I won't do that, or
I won't partake in those things, or I won't be
a part of that, or bring that into the church
or the Kingdom hall or whatever it is. And in
(16:56):
that agreement, you're allowing the church to discipline you in
the way they see fit, and that is okay. I
wouldn't always agree. There are many groups and churches that
excommunicate or kick people out for reasons I think are acidine,
but they go into it knowing that that's the I
(17:21):
see this in Catholicism A lot a lot of people
say I'm a Catholic, but I don't believe X, Y,
and Z, and it's like, well, that's not really fair,
because that's what Catholicism is. If you just don't want
to drop the name Catholicism because you're attached to it,
then you know, say I'm a social Catholic or something.
Use a modifier. Otherwise it's not fair to the church.
(17:43):
They are trying to keep a belief system alive, and
they're the ones that are allowed to make the rules.
And you can either be a part of it or
not be a part of it. But when you kind
of try and be a part of it and then
go by your own rules, the church organization has the
right to say bye, we don't want you involved with us. Greg,
(18:09):
Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
First of all, thank you very much for taking my call.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Oh my pleasure. How can I help?
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Yes, I have a question, and I got a second
part of that question. First of all, I would like
to know who the Holy Ghost is. And is it
true that the Holy Ghost is the body, Jesus is
the heart, and the brain is God.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
No, okay, that is at best. That is something called
an economic trinity. That's when somebody tries to make an
analogy for people to understand the Trinity in a way
that is in the physical realm or things like that,
and what happens is it breaks down because it's the
(19:00):
that's not the case. Now, it may help people understand, well,
you know, this is kind of the positioning and how
they work, but the reality is they're all equal. Now,
your heart, your body, and your mind are all equal
in the sense that you can't live with one or
the other. They all have to be tied to one another.
(19:21):
So there are parts of that analogy that might run
or have some legs to him, but ultimately, when you
start breaking it down, it doesn't make sense because the
positions being different doesn't mean that the substance is different.
So the Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity,
and the Holy Spirit has very specific duties if you will,
(19:46):
and responsibilities and focus. But as far as being equal
with the Father and the Son, Scripture says absolutely Matthew
twenty nineteen Sewo Corinthians thirteen fourteen. The Holy Spirit is
equal with the Father and the Son. The Holy Spirit
was there at creation, the Holy Spirit was there at
(20:07):
every major event. It's not like, oh, well, the Holy Spirit,
we don't really need him right now. But the position,
the focus of the Holy Spirit is specific, just like
the Son, and just like the Father, have specific things,
(20:27):
things that are done. So the Holy Spirit gave Christians gifts,
whether prophecy, healing miracles. I said when I departed, the
Holy Spirit's going to come and dwell in every believer.
The Holy Spirit's referred to as the comforter or the helper.
And so the way some people describe it theologically, to
(20:49):
kind of wrap your mind around it, is the Holy
Spirit brings you to me, I bring you to the Father.
So there's that that process that moves you forward and
in position that essentially, the Holy Spirit is that experiential
(21:11):
side to your faith here on earth. But it's God
one percent. And even in that concept saying it's it's
a he, it'd be a he the same way you
would refer to me as a he or to the
Father as a he. Not because of gender but because
of the terms that are used in scripture, so it
(21:35):
is a person. It's the person of the Holy Spirit.
And people get confused because Father's son you can personify,
but Holy Spirit seems ambiguous and kind of ethereal and
floating and all of those things. But the Holy Spirit
is a personage, a person of the Trinity, the third
person of the Trinity, not the body.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
It was never explained that way to me. I think
I'm understanding.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
It's a weird that the Trinity is complicated in some
ways because it's not something it's not something that you
can put in a box the same way. And although
there are things you can look at on Earth that
point to the concept of a trinity or one thing
(22:26):
in three natures. There's something called the triple point of
water where at one point, in one moment, water is
solid liquid and in gas form, and there are there's
the concept of time. Time is one thing. It's time
(22:47):
in three yesterday, today, and tomorrow, or past, present and future.
You can't separate them. You can use a clock to
try and do that, or you can use the sun
rises and goes down, but really you're not separating time
because it's different to other people. And you could change
a clock, you put more hours on it if you
want to do, or you could do whatever you want.
Doesn't change time. Time is what it is. It's simultaneously
(23:11):
three and simultaneously one. But it doesn't mean that it's easy.
And for some reason though, it's one of the attributes
of God that everybody gets stuck on. Yet there are
all kinds of attributes of God that nobody understands, like
omnicience or omnipotence or any of the omni attributes being
(23:33):
everywhere at once knowing everything. You can't comprehend that either.
But it is what it is, and that's what separates God.
And in the case of the Holy Trinity, there is
something special in the Christian belief system because you're dealing
with one God in three persons, and in this case,
(23:54):
the Holy Spirit's role in the entire dance is to
woo and to comfort and to bring you into the
understanding of the Son, which is the bridge between the
sin of mankind, to bring them back to the Father.
(24:15):
But because the Father and the Son are such human analogs,
and you look back and you go, okay, that makes sense.
It's people put those into categories very simply, and then
when you get to the Holy Spirit, people over complicated
because well, what's the Holy Spirit. I know what a
father is and what a son is, but technically the
father is not a father the way you think a
(24:37):
father is, and the son is not a son the
way you think a son is, except in the physical
sense to marry. So I know it gets complicated and weird,
but it's not really something you'll ever truly understand. But
it's not something that should be put in a box
like that. Well, it's the body, and then the heart
(24:59):
is the sun, and the mind is God. That's sort
of just pointing at the positions and the things on
their to do list. I suppose that we have to
do every single day. We get a lot of questions here.
That's why we're here. We gather once a week to
(25:23):
not just look at the problems, but to look at solutions.
And when it comes to the concept of God and
who God is and the meaning and all those things,
they can be difficult at times, but I don't want
that to stop you from applying yourself to learn more.
Could you imagine if you had to understand every working,
(25:46):
every inner, working, every hose, every piston, every part of
the combustion engine. Before you started your car, there's a
you wouldn't get very far, would you? Some of you would,
but there's there's more two understanding things to that depth
(26:10):
rather than understanding how things are to be worked. So,
for instance, there's a difference to know how computers work
versus how to work a computer. And the beginning steps
really for your faith are to learn what God wants
from you and how that process works. As God continues
(26:34):
to shed a layer and a layer and a layer
of understanding progressively as you can take it.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
KFI AM six forty on demand
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