Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to KFI on demand.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
So our traditions good? Are traditions bad? Sounds like a
line out of the Wizard of Oz? Are you a
good tradition or a bad tradition? Traditions can be wonderful.
Traditions often propel the past. They help you understand from
(00:28):
where you've come, give you insight and a little bit
of direction as to where you're going. They preserve the
rich history of something. They promote the ideas of the elders,
those that came before you. They help you appreciate the
(00:49):
complexity or the time that it's taken to create or
promote an idea, a process. And I think if you
don't understand truly the traditions of your beliefs, your church,
(01:14):
there's a loss there. You can't take for granted the
steps that were taken to get you where you are now.
If you can imagine trying to step from the bottom
rung of ladder to the very top rung of ladder
(01:35):
without hitting any of those steps in between, that's what
happens if you just go with a broadsword and cut
out tradition. Interestingly enough, a friend of the program, he
was talking about generation talking about this particular generation of
(02:00):
young people who attach themselves to their electronics and their
gizmos and their gadgets and their texting, and they lose
a good chunk of their heritage speaking, their ability to
use proper grammar, all of these things because of the
(02:21):
condensing properties of technology. And by condensing, I mean that
you don't need to expand yourself in any way, shape
or form. You don't have to have contact. Think about
all the different things, the traditions that are removed from
life because of the convenience of technology. You don't have
to talk to somebody when you go to the bank,
you can go to the machine outside. You don't have
(02:43):
to talk to somebody when you fill up your tank
because you can fill it up right there at the
gas pump, slide your card. Even the greetings or communication
that take place when you go through a grocery store
are limited because of electronics.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Heav you swipe.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
And now in addition to that, they have the little areas,
the kiosks, where you can check yourself out here, here's
here's a here's a station where you don't have to
talk to another living soul. But those traditions were not
just the lack of technology. They were the importance built
(03:24):
upon the importance of merchant ship and interacting with one
another and being citizens. And when it comes to God,
when it comes to scripture and the things of God,
the traditions that are passed down. And I know that
there's some of you that butt heads with one another
(03:44):
on the different traditions that there that are out there,
and some are good and some are bad. Some can
actually be like a millstone and weight you down your
faith because you forget that the purpose of the tradition
is to propel and to remind you from where you came.
(04:05):
But it should never supersede or impede progress. My producer,
Neil recalls a time when he was in a church
that had no musical instruments that were amplified. He told
(04:27):
me that he spoke with the pastor of the church
and he said, I noticed that you didn't have any
you know, any instruments that were amplified, or any electric
guitars or anything. And he said, that's not how it
was in the original church, so I don't want it
here at my church. So in effect, he was saying,
(04:50):
that is not the tradition. Therefore I don't want that here.
My producer tells me that he looked at the pastor
and replied, then why do you use a microphone? You see,
there are some traditions that you may hold on to
(05:11):
that may not have a purpose. You think they might,
but you hold on to them for the mere fact
that their tradition, and that is of no benefit to anyone,
and it certainly is not a benefit to the church.
If you're new to this program, you must know one thing.
The importance and the purpose of this program is to
(05:31):
propel and perpetuate the ideas of Christianity. However, our desire
is to do it in a way that's different because
the traditions don't always work. The traditional way of doing
(05:53):
things don't always compel, and sometimes look archaic and get
left behind. And that's not to say that you take
scissors to scripture and take out what you don't like,
or just say well that was then, this is now.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
That's not what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
What I'm saying is understand the purpose of traditions. If
you remember, and you can read this in Mark seven,
I was constantly being poked at, pradded tested by the
religious leaders of my day two thousand years ago. Everywhere
(06:30):
I went, somebody was trying to corner me, to get
me to make some statement, some contradictory statement, something that
would cause an uproar, either in the Roman community or
in the Jewish community. And a lot of the things
(06:50):
that were asked of me, and a lot of the
opportunities that were taken were really based on tradition. What
do you think of this tradition? What do you think
of that tradition? And in March seven you can read
in verse one that the Pharisees and also at the
time some of the scribes were coming together and they
(07:11):
were focused on me. As they started to gather around me,
they had some questions, as they are one to do.
And one of these questions and to deal with why
my disciples were eating their bread with impure hands. Now,
(07:36):
not to get totally into what impure hands deal with,
I mean, there was a ceremonial washing that would take
place with a handful of water, especially if you just
came from the marketplace, and that you might be mixing
with things unclean, maybe gentile things, money, utensils, any of
(08:00):
those things. The tradition was to wash your hands. Now,
our Jewish brothers and sisters. If you go back into
a lot of their ceremonial and traditional laws, you'll find
that they were way ahead of their time as far
as hygiene and intellectually being able to understand the importance
(08:20):
of cleanliness, separating where you.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Eat versus where you give waste. Very smart.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
The Pharisees in this situation, however, we're not seeing if
you could imagine the balance and the importance and the
difference between the tradition of cleaning your hands and the
importance and necessity of eating. And sometimes, unfortunately, I find
that to be the same in the Body of Christ.
(08:54):
You focus on these traditions, and sometimes you're so focused
on the tradition, so lost in those things of old
that you can't move forward, that you'd rather not eat
at all and die spiritually because of the tradition of
(09:18):
the cleansing of the hands, and you don't understand and
weigh the importance and the balance between the two. It
should always propel you. Yes, having clean hands is important
when you eat, but not more important than eating. Traditions
(09:46):
do they add to the church, Do they push the church?
Do they help grow the church? Or do they hinder
the church? Well, they answer to both of those questions
is yes, you have to to look. You can't just
give value to tradition because it's tradition. There's many traditions
(10:07):
that should be abolished or were okay for a time
because of some sort of contingency or something that was
going on and that has since changed. But the traditions
are there to show the process, that process that took
(10:28):
you from point A to point B, and you should
give reverence to that process, but never let it impede
on the growth of the church. I see so many
stubborn church leaders that don't want to reach out to
(10:49):
the community or to the young people because they it's like,
that's not how we did it, that's not how it
was when I grew up. Well, things change, things change.
I remember a Native American who called the program, and
maybe you remember as well. Some years ago a sweet,
(11:13):
sweet man called up and said that that he wanted
to seek out Christianity, that he was curious, but that
it went against the traditions of his people. And I
asked him how many rooms were in his teepee, and
(11:39):
he paused and replied, I don't sleep in a teepee.
And I said, why not? It is a tradition. And
you see the Native American people slept in teepees because
(12:00):
that was an efficient way then not now culture the
things the traditions. Culture and tradition both come from the
supply and demand, a need, a scouting around the area,
seeing what you have supply wise to fill that need
(12:21):
and filling that need. That's why when you look at
certain regional foods, they are based on the supplies that
they had. And now the tradition is passed down and
it's wonderful and say this is what we cook. But
as things change and import and export and all of
these things, so can culture change. Culture is supposed to change,
and so are traditions. Jesse, Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Good morning, Jesus. I love your show.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Thank you so much. I appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Jesus. I have a question. My father is a Catholic
and whether it's a Jehovah witness and I know how
you kind of feel about Jehovah witnesses. But with that
being said, I take my parents to church. My mother's
eighty three, my dad's eighty six, and so I have
to take them both every Sunday in the child't mind.
(13:14):
But one day I was at the Jehovah Witness church
and the elder at the podium just all of a
sudden said, after you've finished with the sermon and whatever
he said, so and so is no longer Jehovah Witness.
And everybody was just like, what just happened? What's your
(13:35):
thought on the schellowshipping people?
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Well, I certainly don't speak to the theology or the
structure of the Jovah's Witness belief system, and it is
not the belief system of this radio program or its producers,
so and not one that this program or its radio
producers would.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Recommend.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
So having said that, they have their own system in
which they adhere to, in their own system in which
they teach, and they control the structure of their church body,
it doesn't mean that others don't. Even Catholicism, you can
be communicated from Catholicism, and there are other church Protestants
(14:25):
in nature that would ask somebody to leave the church.
It's contingent upon what the structure and the rules of
that particular church are and how they feel to you know,
execute them in the process of teaching. So it's up
to them it's their world and or their new world
(14:49):
as the case maybe, but it's their world and they
can make their structure anyway they wish. There is a time,
and there is script references when people were ostracized or
allowed to go or asked to go to get clarity
in their life before they come back and bring doubt
(15:11):
or ugliness or bitterness into the church. And I think
it's although I may not agree with the reasons they're
doing it for or the way they're doing it, I
think sometimes there's wounds that you mend, and there's wounds
that you amputate in life. Otherwise if you don't amputate them,
they make the whole body sick. And I think that
(15:32):
that you and I may not agree with the reasons
they did it, but the premise is still a legitimate one,
and that is sometimes you have to protect the many
from the one.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
I understand. By the way, my mother loves your show too.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Well, that's nice to hear the show is.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Yes, he always listens to you every time I have
the way, what do you listening to Jesus In the
first she got upset Jesus. Oh yeah, Mom, it's just
it's just it's just the radio station. The guy is
very knowledgeable and she loves your show, and my dad
loves your show. And my mom said, ze, Joe, see
this is what he says.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
All right, thank you Jesus for your question, I mean,
for your answer.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
My pleasure. I'm honored when anybody takes the time to listen.
But we're also very honest as to the point of
view and where we come from, so that people don't
get confused, and there is We try and focus on
the things that we agree on, then the things we
disagree on. But the truth of the matter is that
(16:35):
when someone is excommunicated from a church, the church has
that right based on whatever their structure is, as long
as everybody knows it going into it, then they're signing
off on that saying Okay, I won't do that, or
I won't partake in those things, or I won't be
a part of that, or bring that into the church
or the Kingdom hall or whatever it is. And in
(16:56):
that agreement, you're allowing the church to discipline you in
the way they see fit, and that is okay.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
I wouldn't always agree.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
There are many groups and churches that excommunicate or kick
people out for reasons I think are acidine, but they
go into it knowing that that's the I see this
in Catholicism a lot a lot of people say I'm
a Catholic, but I don't believe X, Y and Z,
and it's like, well, that's not really fair, because that's
(17:28):
what Catholicism is. If you just don't want to drop
the name Catholicism because you're attached to it, then you know,
say I'm a social Catholic or something. Use a modifier.
Otherwise it's not fair to the church. They are trying
to keep a belief system alive, and they're the ones
that are allowed to make the rules. And you can
(17:51):
either be a part of it or not be a
part of it. But when you kind of try and
be a part of it and then go by your
own rules, the church organization has the right to say bye,
we don't want you involved with us. Greg, Welcome to
the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
First of all, thank you very much for taking my call.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Oh my pleasure. How can I help?
Speaker 4 (18:18):
Yes, I have a question, and I got a second
part of that question. First of all, I would like
to know who the Holy Ghost is and is it
true that the Holy Ghost is the body, Jesus is
the heart, and the brain is God.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
No, okay, that is.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
At best that is something called an economic trinity. That's
when somebody tries to make an analogy for people to
understand the Trinity in a way that is in the
physical realm or things like that, and what happens is
it breaks down because it's that's not the case.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Now.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
It may help people understand, well, you know, this is
kind of the positioning and how they work, but the
reality is they're all equal. Now, your heart, your body,
and your mind are all equal in the sense that
you can't live with one or the other. They all
have to be tied to one another. So there are
parts of that analogy that might run or have some
(19:25):
legs to them, but ultimately, when you start breaking it down,
it doesn't make sense because the positions being different doesn't
mean that the substance is different. So the Holy Spirit
is the third person of the Trinity, and the Holy
Spirit has very specific duties if you will, and responsibilities
(19:47):
and focus. But as far as being equal with the
Father and the Son, scripture says absolutely. Matthew twenty nineteen
sewo Corinthians thirteen fourteen. The Holy Spirit is equal with
the Father and the Son. The Holy Spirit was there
at creation, the Holy Spirit was there at every major event.
(20:09):
It's not like, oh, well, the Holy Spirit, we don't
really need him right now.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
But the.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Position, the focus of the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Is specific, just like the Son, and just like the Father,
have specific things, things that are done. So the Holy
Spirit gave Christians gifts, whether prophecy, healing miracles. I said
when I departed, the Holy Spirit's going to come and
to well every believer. The Holy Spirit's referred to as
(20:43):
the comforter or the helper, And so the way some
people describe it theologically, to kind of wrap your mind
around it is the Holy Spirit brings you to me,
I bring you to the Father. So there's that that
process that moves you forward and in position that essentially,
(21:07):
the Holy Spirit is that experiential side to your faith
here on earth. But it's God one percent. And even
in that concept saying it's it's a he, it'd be
he the same way you would refer to me as
a he or to the Father as a he. Not
because of gender, but because of the terms that are
(21:33):
used in scripture so it is a person.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
It's the person of the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
And people get confused because Father's son you can personify,
but Holy Spirit seems ambiguous and kind of ethereal and
floating and all of those things. But the Holy Spirit
is a personage, a person of the Trinity, the third
person of the Trinity, not the body.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
It was never explained that way to me. I think
I'm understanding.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
It's a weird that the Trinity is complicated in some
ways because it's not something it's not something that you
can put in a box. The same way, and although
there are things you can look at on Earth that
point to the concept of a trinity or one thing
(22:26):
in three natures. There's something called the triple point of
water where at one point, in one moment, water is
solid liquid and in gas form, and there are there's
the concept of time. Time is one thing. It's time
(22:47):
in three yesterday, today, and tomorrow or past present, future.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
You can't separate them.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
You can use a clock to try and do that,
or you can use the sun rises and goes down,
but really you're not separating time because it's different to
other people. And you could change a clock, you put
more hours on it if you want to do or
you could do whatever you want, doesn't change time. Time
is what it is. It's simultaneously three and simultaneously one.
But it doesn't mean that it's easy. And for some
(23:16):
reason though, it's one of the attributes of God that
everybody gets stuck on. Yet there are all kinds of
attributes of God that nobody understands, like omniscience or omnipotence
or any of the omni attributes being everywhere at once
knowing everything. You can't comprehend that either. But it is
(23:39):
what it is, and that's what separates God. And in
the case of the Holy Trinity, there is something special
in the Christian belief system because you're dealing with one
God in three persons. And in this case, the Holy
Spirit's role in the entire dance is to woo and
(24:02):
to comfort and to bring you into the understanding of
the Son, which is the bridge between the sin of mankind,
to bring them back to the Father. But because the
Father and the Son are such human analogus, and you
look back and you go, okay, that makes sense. It's
(24:24):
people put those into categories very simply. And then when
you get to the Holy Spirit people over complicated because well,
what's the Holy spirit. I know what a father is
and what a son is, but technically the father is
not a father the way you think a father is,
and the son is not a son the way you
think a son is, except in the physical sense to marry.
(24:46):
So I know it gets complicated and weird, but it's
not really something you'll ever truly understand. But it's not
something that should be put in a.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Box like that.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Well, it's the body, and then the heart is the sun,
and the mind is God. That's sort of just pointing
at the positions and the things on their to do list.
I suppose that we have to do every single day.
We get a lot of questions here. That's why we're here.
(25:19):
We gather once a week to not just look at
the problems, but to look at solutions. And when it
comes to the concept of God and who God is
and the meaning and all those things, they can be
difficult at times, but I don't want that to stop
you from applying yourself to learn more. Could you imagine
(25:44):
if you had to understand every working, every inner working,
every hose, every piston, every part of the combustion engine
before you started your car. There's a you wouldn't get
very far, would you? Some of you would, but there's
(26:06):
there's more two understanding things to that depth rather than
understanding how things.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Are to be worked.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
So, for instance, there's a difference to know how computers
work versus how to work a computer. And the beginning
steps really for your faith are to learn what God
wants from you and how that process works. As God
continues to shed a layer and a layer and a
layer of understanding progressively as you can take it.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
KFI AM six forty on demand
You're listening to KFI on demand.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
So our traditions good? Are traditions bad? Sounds like a
line out of the Wizard of Oz? Are you a
good tradition or a bad tradition? Traditions can be wonderful.
Traditions often propel the past. They help you understand from
(00:28):
where you've come, give you insight and a little bit
of direction as to where you're going. They preserve the
rich history of something. They promote the ideas of the elders,
those that came before you. They help you appreciate the
(00:49):
complexity or the time that it's taken to create or
promote an idea, a process. And I think if you
don't understand truly the traditions of your beliefs, your church,
(01:14):
there's a loss there. You can't take for granted the
steps that were taken to get you where you are now.
If you can imagine trying to step from the bottom
rung of ladder to the very top rung of ladder
(01:35):
without hitting any of those steps in between, that's what
happens if you just go with a broadsword and cut
out tradition. Interestingly enough, a friend of the program, he
was talking about generation talking about this particular generation of
(02:00):
young people who attach themselves to their electronics and their
gizmos and their gadgets and their texting, and they lose
a good chunk of their heritage speaking, their ability to
use proper grammar, all of these things because of the
(02:21):
condensing properties of technology. And by condensing, I mean that
you don't need to expand yourself in any way, shape
or form. You don't have to have contact. Think about
all the different things, the traditions that are removed from
life because of the convenience of technology. You don't have
to talk to somebody when you go to the bank,
you can go to the machine outside. You don't have
(02:43):
to talk to somebody when you fill up your tank
because you can fill it up right there at the
gas pump, slide your card. Even the greetings or communication
that take place when you go through a grocery store
are limited because of electronics.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Heav you swipe.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
And now in addition to that, they have the little areas,
the kiosks, where you can check yourself out here, here's
here's a here's a station where you don't have to
talk to another living soul. But those traditions were not
just the lack of technology. They were the importance built
(03:24):
upon the importance of merchant ship and interacting with one
another and being citizens. And when it comes to God,
when it comes to scripture and the things of God,
the traditions that are passed down. And I know that
there's some of you that butt heads with one another
(03:44):
on the different traditions that there that are out there,
and some are good and some are bad. Some can
actually be like a millstone and weight you down your
faith because you forget that the purpose of the tradition
is to propel and to remind you from where you came.
(04:05):
But it should never supersede or impede progress. My producer,
Neil recalls a time when he was in a church
that had no musical instruments that were amplified. He told
(04:27):
me that he spoke with the pastor of the church
and he said, I noticed that you didn't have any
you know, any instruments that were amplified, or any electric
guitars or anything. And he said, that's not how it
was in the original church, so I don't want it
here at my church. So in effect, he was saying,
(04:50):
that is not the tradition. Therefore I don't want that here.
My producer tells me that he looked at the pastor
and replied, then why do you use a microphone? You see,
there are some traditions that you may hold on to
(05:11):
that may not have a purpose. You think they might,
but you hold on to them for the mere fact
that their tradition, and that is of no benefit to anyone,
and it certainly is not a benefit to the church.
If you're new to this program, you must know one thing.
The importance and the purpose of this program is to
(05:31):
propel and perpetuate the ideas of Christianity. However, our desire
is to do it in a way that's different because
the traditions don't always work. The traditional way of doing
(05:53):
things don't always compel, and sometimes look archaic and get
left behind. And that's not to say that you take
scissors to scripture and take out what you don't like,
or just say well that was then, this is now.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
That's not what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
What I'm saying is understand the purpose of traditions. If
you remember, and you can read this in Mark seven,
I was constantly being poked at, pradded tested by the
religious leaders of my day two thousand years ago. Everywhere
(06:30):
I went, somebody was trying to corner me, to get
me to make some statement, some contradictory statement, something that
would cause an uproar, either in the Roman community or
in the Jewish community. And a lot of the things
(06:50):
that were asked of me, and a lot of the
opportunities that were taken were really based on tradition. What
do you think of this tradition? What do you think
of that tradition? And in March seven you can read
in verse one that the Pharisees and also at the
time some of the scribes were coming together and they
(07:11):
were focused on me. As they started to gather around me,
they had some questions, as they are one to do.
And one of these questions and to deal with why
my disciples were eating their bread with impure hands. Now,
(07:36):
not to get totally into what impure hands deal with,
I mean, there was a ceremonial washing that would take
place with a handful of water, especially if you just
came from the marketplace, and that you might be mixing
with things unclean, maybe gentile things, money, utensils, any of
(08:00):
those things. The tradition was to wash your hands. Now,
our Jewish brothers and sisters. If you go back into
a lot of their ceremonial and traditional laws, you'll find
that they were way ahead of their time as far
as hygiene and intellectually being able to understand the importance
(08:20):
of cleanliness, separating where you.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Eat versus where you give waste. Very smart.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
The Pharisees in this situation, however, we're not seeing if
you could imagine the balance and the importance and the
difference between the tradition of cleaning your hands and the
importance and necessity of eating. And sometimes, unfortunately, I find
that to be the same in the Body of Christ.
(08:54):
You focus on these traditions, and sometimes you're so focused
on the tradition, so lost in those things of old
that you can't move forward, that you'd rather not eat
at all and die spiritually because of the tradition of
(09:18):
the cleansing of the hands, and you don't understand and
weigh the importance and the balance between the two. It
should always propel you. Yes, having clean hands is important
when you eat, but not more important than eating. Traditions
(09:46):
do they add to the church, Do they push the church?
Do they help grow the church? Or do they hinder
the church? Well, they answer to both of those questions
is yes, you have to to look. You can't just
give value to tradition because it's tradition. There's many traditions
(10:07):
that should be abolished or were okay for a time
because of some sort of contingency or something that was
going on and that has since changed. But the traditions
are there to show the process, that process that took
(10:28):
you from point A to point B, and you should
give reverence to that process, but never let it impede
on the growth of the church. I see so many
stubborn church leaders that don't want to reach out to
(10:49):
the community or to the young people because they it's like,
that's not how we did it, that's not how it
was when I grew up. Well, things change, things change.
I remember a Native American who called the program, and
maybe you remember as well. Some years ago a sweet,
(11:13):
sweet man called up and said that that he wanted
to seek out Christianity, that he was curious, but that
it went against the traditions of his people. And I
asked him how many rooms were in his teepee, and
(11:39):
he paused and replied, I don't sleep in a teepee.
And I said, why not? It is a tradition. And
you see the Native American people slept in teepees because
(12:00):
that was an efficient way then not now culture the
things the traditions. Culture and tradition both come from the
supply and demand, a need, a scouting around the area,
seeing what you have supply wise to fill that need
(12:21):
and filling that need. That's why when you look at
certain regional foods, they are based on the supplies that
they had. And now the tradition is passed down and
it's wonderful and say this is what we cook. But
as things change and import and export and all of
these things, so can culture change. Culture is supposed to change,
and so are traditions. Jesse, Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Good morning, Jesus. I love your show.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Thank you so much. I appreciate that.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Jesus. I have a question. My father is a Catholic
and whether it's a Jehovah witness and I know how
you kind of feel about Jehovah witnesses. But with that
being said, I take my parents to church. My mother's
eighty three, my dad's eighty six, and so I have
to take them both every Sunday in the child't mind.
(13:14):
But one day I was at the Jehovah Witness church
and the elder at the podium just all of a
sudden said, after you've finished with the sermon and whatever
he said, so and so is no longer Jehovah Witness.
And everybody was just like, what just happened? What's your
(13:35):
thought on the schellowshipping people?
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Well, I certainly don't speak to the theology or the
structure of the Jovah's Witness belief system, and it is
not the belief system of this radio program or its producers,
so and not one that this program or its radio
producers would.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Recommend.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
So having said that, they have their own system in
which they adhere to, in their own system in which
they teach, and they control the structure of their church body,
it doesn't mean that others don't. Even Catholicism, you can
be communicated from Catholicism, and there are other church Protestants
(14:25):
in nature that would ask somebody to leave the church.
It's contingent upon what the structure and the rules of
that particular church are and how they feel to you know,
execute them in the process of teaching. So it's up
to them it's their world and or their new world
(14:49):
as the case maybe, but it's their world and they
can make their structure anyway they wish. There is a time,
and there is script references when people were ostracized or
allowed to go or asked to go to get clarity
in their life before they come back and bring doubt
(15:11):
or ugliness or bitterness into the church. And I think
it's although I may not agree with the reasons they're
doing it for or the way they're doing it, I
think sometimes there's wounds that you mend, and there's wounds
that you amputate in life. Otherwise if you don't amputate them,
they make the whole body sick. And I think that
(15:32):
that you and I may not agree with the reasons
they did it, but the premise is still a legitimate one,
and that is sometimes you have to protect the many
from the one.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
I understand. By the way, my mother loves your show too.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Well, that's nice to hear the show is.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Yes, he always listens to you every time I have
the way, what do you listening to Jesus In the
first she got upset Jesus. Oh yeah, Mom, it's just
it's just it's just the radio station. The guy is
very knowledgeable and she loves your show, and my dad
loves your show. And my mom said, ze, Joe, see
this is what he says.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
All right, thank you Jesus for your question, I mean,
for your answer.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
My pleasure. I'm honored when anybody takes the time to listen.
But we're also very honest as to the point of
view and where we come from, so that people don't
get confused, and there is We try and focus on
the things that we agree on, then the things we
disagree on. But the truth of the matter is that
(16:35):
when someone is excommunicated from a church, the church has
that right based on whatever their structure is, as long
as everybody knows it going into it, then they're signing
off on that saying Okay, I won't do that, or
I won't partake in those things, or I won't be
a part of that, or bring that into the church
or the Kingdom hall or whatever it is. And in
(16:56):
that agreement, you're allowing the church to discipline you in
the way they see fit, and that is okay.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
I wouldn't always agree.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
There are many groups and churches that excommunicate or kick
people out for reasons I think are acidine, but they
go into it knowing that that's the I see this
in Catholicism a lot a lot of people say I'm
a Catholic, but I don't believe X, Y and Z,
and it's like, well, that's not really fair, because that's
(17:28):
what Catholicism is. If you just don't want to drop
the name Catholicism because you're attached to it, then you know,
say I'm a social Catholic or something. Use a modifier.
Otherwise it's not fair to the church. They are trying
to keep a belief system alive, and they're the ones
that are allowed to make the rules. And you can
(17:51):
either be a part of it or not be a
part of it. But when you kind of try and
be a part of it and then go by your
own rules, the church organization has the right to say bye,
we don't want you involved with us. Greg, Welcome to
the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
First of all, thank you very much for taking my call.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Oh my pleasure. How can I help?
Speaker 4 (18:18):
Yes, I have a question, and I got a second
part of that question. First of all, I would like
to know who the Holy Ghost is and is it
true that the Holy Ghost is the body, Jesus is
the heart, and the brain is God.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
No, okay, that is.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
At best that is something called an economic trinity. That's
when somebody tries to make an analogy for people to
understand the Trinity in a way that is in the
physical realm or things like that, and what happens is
it breaks down because it's that's not the case.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Now.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
It may help people understand, well, you know, this is
kind of the positioning and how they work, but the
reality is they're all equal. Now, your heart, your body,
and your mind are all equal in the sense that
you can't live with one or the other. They all
have to be tied to one another. So there are
parts of that analogy that might run or have some
(19:25):
legs to them, but ultimately, when you start breaking it down,
it doesn't make sense because the positions being different doesn't
mean that the substance is different. So the Holy Spirit
is the third person of the Trinity, and the Holy
Spirit has very specific duties if you will, and responsibilities
(19:47):
and focus. But as far as being equal with the
Father and the Son, scripture says absolutely. Matthew twenty nineteen
sewo Corinthians thirteen fourteen. The Holy Spirit is equal with
the Father and the Son. The Holy Spirit was there
at creation, the Holy Spirit was there at every major event.
(20:09):
It's not like, oh, well, the Holy Spirit, we don't
really need him right now.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
But the.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Position, the focus of the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Is specific, just like the Son, and just like the Father,
have specific things, things that are done. So the Holy
Spirit gave Christians gifts, whether prophecy, healing miracles. I said
when I departed, the Holy Spirit's going to come and
to well every believer. The Holy Spirit's referred to as
(20:43):
the comforter or the helper, And so the way some
people describe it theologically, to kind of wrap your mind
around it is the Holy Spirit brings you to me,
I bring you to the Father. So there's that that
process that moves you forward and in position that essentially,
(21:07):
the Holy Spirit is that experiential side to your faith
here on earth. But it's God one percent. And even
in that concept saying it's it's a he, it'd be
he the same way you would refer to me as
a he or to the Father as a he. Not
because of gender, but because of the terms that are
(21:33):
used in scripture so it is a person.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
It's the person of the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
And people get confused because Father's son you can personify,
but Holy Spirit seems ambiguous and kind of ethereal and
floating and all of those things. But the Holy Spirit
is a personage, a person of the Trinity, the third
person of the Trinity, not the body.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
It was never explained that way to me. I think
I'm understanding.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
It's a weird that the Trinity is complicated in some
ways because it's not something it's not something that you
can put in a box. The same way, and although
there are things you can look at on Earth that
point to the concept of a trinity or one thing
(22:26):
in three natures. There's something called the triple point of
water where at one point, in one moment, water is
solid liquid and in gas form, and there are there's
the concept of time. Time is one thing. It's time
(22:47):
in three yesterday, today, and tomorrow or past present, future.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
You can't separate them.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
You can use a clock to try and do that,
or you can use the sun rises and goes down,
but really you're not separating time because it's different to
other people. And you could change a clock, you put
more hours on it if you want to do or
you could do whatever you want, doesn't change time. Time
is what it is. It's simultaneously three and simultaneously one.
But it doesn't mean that it's easy. And for some
(23:16):
reason though, it's one of the attributes of God that
everybody gets stuck on. Yet there are all kinds of
attributes of God that nobody understands, like omniscience or omnipotence
or any of the omni attributes being everywhere at once
knowing everything. You can't comprehend that either. But it is
(23:39):
what it is, and that's what separates God. And in
the case of the Holy Trinity, there is something special
in the Christian belief system because you're dealing with one
God in three persons. And in this case, the Holy
Spirit's role in the entire dance is to woo and
(24:02):
to comfort and to bring you into the understanding of
the Son, which is the bridge between the sin of mankind,
to bring them back to the Father. But because the
Father and the Son are such human analogus, and you
look back and you go, okay, that makes sense. It's
(24:24):
people put those into categories very simply. And then when
you get to the Holy Spirit people over complicated because well,
what's the Holy spirit. I know what a father is
and what a son is, but technically the father is
not a father the way you think a father is,
and the son is not a son the way you
think a son is, except in the physical sense to marry.
(24:46):
So I know it gets complicated and weird, but it's
not really something you'll ever truly understand. But it's not
something that should be put in a.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Box like that.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Well, it's the body, and then the heart is the sun,
and the mind is God. That's sort of just pointing
at the positions and the things on their to do list.
I suppose that we have to do every single day.
We get a lot of questions here. That's why we're here.
(25:19):
We gather once a week to not just look at
the problems, but to look at solutions. And when it
comes to the concept of God and who God is
and the meaning and all those things, they can be
difficult at times, but I don't want that to stop
you from applying yourself to learn more. Could you imagine
(25:44):
if you had to understand every working, every inner working,
every hose, every piston, every part of the combustion engine
before you started your car. There's a you wouldn't get
very far, would you? Some of you would, but there's
(26:06):
there's more two understanding things to that depth rather than
understanding how things.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Are to be worked.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
So, for instance, there's a difference to know how computers
work versus how to work a computer. And the beginning
steps really for your faith are to learn what God
wants from you and how that process works. As God
continues to shed a layer and a layer and a
layer of understanding progressively as you can take it.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
KFI AM six forty on demand
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