Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to KFI A six on demand, Larry, welcome
to that Jesus Christ show.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Oh, thank you, thank you. First of all, I believe
in God, but I can't quite conceive of heaven and hell.
I just can't buy into it. It seems like a
fairy tale to me.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Sure I can. I can imagine. It does seem by
the way it's made kind of like and everyone will
live happily ever after, well some. But what gets you
the most about it? If you believe in God, and
I'm assuming you believe that God is outside of the
(00:46):
temporal world, right, yes, so you believe that God is
all knowing? Does he have omni attributes? Is he all powerful? Okay?
So he has all the omni attributes. He's outside of time,
So time is not of a concern to God. God
creates time, but is not bound by time. Okay, So
(01:06):
you have, you know, a God without limitations. Where does
it come in that you have a concern about well afterlife.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
I'm willing to believe that a person makes their heaven
and hell on earth. I just can't see eternity, gnashing
of teeth, walking on hot coals. I just can't buy
into it.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Well, some of that is imagery. I know, theologians go
back and forth a lot of times. That's that's a
type of language is used because there's nothing else that
humans would really understand. Otherwise, if you just said it's
the separation between man and God, you know, some people
would go, well, great, that's like telling a child, Hey,
(01:55):
you know, hell is when your parents go away on
vacation and the house is all yours and they think, oh,
this is great. But really it's about the repercussions of that. Okay,
now the parents aren't paying the bills. You've got to
pay the bills. Okay, Now the parents aren't there to
show you how to run the house, so that you've
got that the weight of that. Really, the absence of
God is what hell is. It's not the hell fire
(02:18):
and all that. Those are concepts to get people to
understand the intensity and the lack of satiation that is hell.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Well, I was brought up in Pentecostal Holy Roller fundamental
and they fully believe in that. You know, the concept
of fire and damnation.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Well, there's not there's nothing to say that there isn't
fire there. My point being that it's it's not about
physical fire, because if it's just about physical fire, those
are things you can be afraid of on earth, right,
it's about the it's about uh, the the concepts of
(03:03):
being without something that even the atheist is getting benefits
from God. While on earth, as God sees over everything,
the mere existence and enjoying a sunset or a sunrise
or anything that takes place in God's creation, they still
get the benefit of so they don't fully understand the
absence of God. And one way to put that is
(03:26):
that kind of ever burning flame that only consumes and
never benefits. And there's not really a way to truly
paint that anymore than the streets of heaven are paved
with gold, because that's something of value to people here.
But gold it doesn't have value to God exactly. You
don't know that by some of the churches out there.
(03:47):
But my point being that those are things to help
apply human understanding to things that that humans can't understand.
If you remember, in Scripture, I was asked what heaven
was like and my response was what My response was,
why do you want me to tell you about heaven
when you don't even understand the things of earth. It
(04:09):
wasn't to go Oh well, it's got gold and it's
going to be great, and it's it's those are those
are descriptions that are based in a way that that
humans can kind of understand that even the streets are
more valuable than your most valuable possession. So the very
thing you walk on in heaven is more valuable than
(04:29):
your most valuable possessions. That's what it's trying to convey.
And likewise with the fire, it's this unquenchable, consistent consumption
with nothing that given back, no benefits, no nothing.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
So would I be comfortable and saying that you make
your heaven, you make your hell right on earth?
Speaker 1 (04:52):
No, because it's not that's part of the temporal. That's
you again trying to deal with the temporal, and it's outside.
It's equal. That's it's like you making your God on earth.
How reasonable would that be?
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (05:03):
So, why would God's home, I e. Heaven be on earth.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
It's so big and so mystifying to me. And I
pray for faith. You know, the Bible says He's willing
to give you ten times more than you asked for.
And I pray for faith and I just can't get it.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Well, faith is one of those things that is that
has to be applied, and the applying of faith is
where people get stuck. It's like a chair. You can
look at the chair and know that it's a chair.
You can look at the chair, know that it's a chair,
and know what it's used for people sit in it.
You can look at the chair, know that it's chair,
(05:48):
people sit in it. You can know that it appears
to be made out of wood and or metal, and
that it will hold your structure, hold you, and it
is structurally has structural integrity all of these things. However,
it's not until you sit in it that it truly
becomes a chair and it truly has the value of
being a chair because you're applying it's chairness to your life.
(06:10):
So likewise, with faith, you can understand it, you can
see it, you can even read it in scripture, you
can recite it, you can pray it. But if you're
not applying it in ways, if there's not things in
your life larry that you're not even applying it. In
this concept, you already believe in a God, and you
may even believe in scripture and all of those things,
(06:31):
and if you're not trusting God for this final piece
that you can't know because there's only one that has
died and come back truly, and you're talking to him,
so that has that experience. So in order to really
understand it, you'd have to experience it. You won't experience
it till you're dead. So now that faith has to
(06:53):
come in. And if you're not going to apply that
to this very thing, then there's a there's going to
be a faith issue in there most certainly.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Right, Well, I purvenly believe in God. I just can't
see a world a life without God.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Well that's hell.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
But I know that as time goes by, men and
bellies and add on to the stories down the ages,
and yeah, that's what I get stuck on.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Well, you know what a lot of people say that
the old telephone concept, you know, holding up the telephone
and telling somebody and then by the end, you know,
you play that grade school and by the end time
it gets to the end, it's different. However, when you
read scripture and history about how it was written down
and passed along, it's funny how people hold scripture to
(07:54):
this weird standard and not the rest of history. There
are over twenty five thousand parts and whole manuscripts of
the New Testament alone throughout the centuries. You can go
back and check the different variants to see how off
they were, and they're not. As a matter of fact,
in the forties when they discovered the Dead Sea Scrolls,
(08:16):
and one of the books they discovered was the entire
works of Isaiah, the Book of Isaiah, and there was
nothing changed. And those were the oldest ones. And what
people fail to understand that not unlike science, science being
observational that when they observe something new, it sheds light
(08:40):
on something else. Well, in this science, when you're dealing
with books of antiquity, writings of antiquity, you're only dealing
with the oldest manuscript These are the oldest ones that
we have. That's not to say these are the oldest
ones in existence. We just may may not have found them.
Like when you're dealing with and they find them all
the time, they don't make the news that much unless you're,
(09:03):
you know, one of those types that like to read,
you know, Biblical archaeology review or something people don't know.
So keep in mind that there's new works. Fine, when
they find these new texts and they use them and
they compare them and they see if there were any changes,
and there's just not never anything that changed the meaning.
As a matter of fact, a Bible that's the first
(09:25):
one to use the Dead Sea Scrolls Book of Isaiah
to translate the Book of Isaiah, so you have the
best information there is. So we know now that there
wasn't some sort of telephone where things got changed and
change because you have multiple different you know, people's television
or telephone notes and they all match up. And I
(09:51):
know that that faith is always one of those topics
that just it's like, well, how do I apply it?
Where do I go? How do I use it? Type thing?
But really, if there's if you can come alongside and
run with God through certain concepts, you're already there. It's
about implying applying them. And the afterlife is a big
(10:13):
one to people. But if you understand that that God
is already eternal, then sometimes it makes it a little
easier to understand the concepts. Just like there's graduations in
all parts of life. You leave childhood and go into adolescence,
you leave adolescence and go into adulthood, and all those
(10:36):
things become different, a different part of who you are.
And this is one more graduation from your old age
into your spiritualness, your true spiritual being. And that's a
pretty hardcore thing to think about. It's but there's many
things in life that are complex or weighty that you
(11:01):
take on faith all the time. Most people do not
learn how the combustion engine works before they drive a car.
They drive it, and that's kind of the process that
needs to be used when you're dealing with things of faith.
It gets very difficult to try and parse all the specifics,
especially about heaven and how it's to know, though, that
(11:24):
there is a punishment of sorts that suits the crime
of rejecting God. A lot of people wrestle with that.
On its face, well, you know, I'm being punished for eternity.
It seems like it doesn't make sense, but really it
flows from God's love. God loves his creation so much
(11:46):
that he won't force you to love him back. And
if you reject him, if you say I don't care
about you for the measly eighty ninety one hundred years
I'm on this planet, I don't want to be with you,
and God won't force you to be with him for
eternity allows you to be somewhere else. But it's in
that absence that you lack all those things that you've
(12:08):
experienced with God for free on earth, whether you believe
or don't believe. And the punishment does fit the crime.
If you think about doing the same act that you know,
slapping another human being, it's wrong, But you slap a cop,
it's wrong. Plus it's a different offense. You slap the
(12:30):
face of a holy, righteous, eternal God. Then the punishment
that will meet that will be holy, righteous and eternal,
just simply by definition.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Brook.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show. Hi, Hi, thanks for
being so patient.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Thank you. I've had this problem kind of for a
long time and I've actually been able to tell it.
Oh gosh, not too many years ago, and I'm about fifty.
I was molested when I was seven years old, more
than once, and it kind of I didn't really you know,
(13:18):
at that age, I didn't know what was going on. Sure,
and then I was kidnapped, but you know, I felt
like something was wrong.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Okay, okay, but wait, you said, and you were kidnapped at.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
When I was sixteen in one of my.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Mom's house really by someone that knew the family or
a complete stranger.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
I was a.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
Stranger and they didn't find him. But you know, since
that time, my mind has a really strong block on it.
I can put up bricks really easy, and I kind
of left it out for a long time, but I
never really gosh, I don't know if I can say this.
I never really liked to be into that, and and
(14:00):
yet I knew it was normal and natural at the
right time. I love the Lord, He's my number one,
but you know, and it's been used also. I believe
all things are used for the good to help others,
which it has, But as far as myself, you know,
when I start to have a relationship or meet someone
(14:23):
that's cute, I feel completely ugly, no good. I hate sex.
I don't want it, but yet I do because I
want to be normal, and I just am depressed.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Well physiologically. Is there something that takes place during sex
or is it just the concept of it? Does it
take your brain back somewhere?
Speaker 3 (14:47):
Probably both. It's like I just feel dirty, I feel
like I'm wrong, like I'm ugly, and I think when
I was molested, my brother had actually told me, you know,
if you do this with anyone else, he's gonna they're
gonna think you're a pig and don't tell anybody, and
you know, things like that.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
So this was.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Your brother who blested you? And was he ever brought
up on charges or anything?
Speaker 3 (15:14):
No? No, I never even told my parents. My father
passed up a few years back, and a few years
before he passed, I actually let it out.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
M hmmm. And uh, has he ever your brother been
arrested for harming and touching anyone else?
Speaker 3 (15:37):
You know, I really don't want to have.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
Because I love him as a person. I don't like
I love him as a human because he's a lord,
but I don't love him as a person.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Do you have any relationship or contact with him anymore?
And have you ever talked to him about it? Later?
Speaker 4 (16:00):
Kind of in the Lord's actually told me to grow
to you. Didn't say I was sorry even not wasn't me?
And I did, and I forgive him, but it's affect me.
I don't know, I really, you know. I pray and
pray and pray, and I just I'm not sure how
(16:25):
I hadn't learn anymore. I try to go out with
people and then when they start to get weird, I just,
you know, I couldn't run away.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
What do you mean when they start to get weird?
Speaker 4 (16:40):
You know, like if if if I start to like him,
it's like I kind of block him away because I
know what it's going to lead to. Even when I
was married, I got to the point where I just
didn't want it anymore, but I did because I thought
that's what you were supposed to do, and I didn't
want to lose them, and I did.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Anyway, Well, this is I mean, you're at a very
young age. You say you were seven.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
That's a lot to take on and to not understand
fully and have the mechanics of it is one thing
versus the emotional contribution and how you deal with that.
Have you gone to any sort of counseling.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
No. I you know, it's funny. I often thought, you know,
someone could just have a twice me and just make
me forget it so I could be normal. That would
be better. I've prayed all my life, you know, except
sometimes I blocked it out and I think I'm just
kind of a silly and funny person. I you know,
(17:49):
people tell me I'm pretty everything else but it and
I say thank you, but I don't believe it. At all.
It just doesn't register.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Yeah, you've got a lot of crud on you emotionally,
you got a lot of crud that you see that
no one else sees. But the fact that you're at
at a place where you should have seen counseling at
this point to work through these things.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
It's so weird because I actually counsel. Other people will
not counsel. I'm not a counsel, but I talk to
other people about it, and it seems it's like the
Lord uses it. But it's like, Lord, I need to
help me. I just want to be normal.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah, so what's stopping you from And this doesn't change
your your normality? This it just it may make you
feel like you're not normal. But the fact is everybody
goes through different things in their life that partially define
who they are and their outlook on things. But this isn't.
(18:55):
This isn't who you are. This is something that happened
to you. And there's a difference seeing no one can
take your heart, no one can take your emotions or
anything like that. They can take your body and they
can do things to you, but they're not even really
doing things with you. And it is ugly and vulgar
(19:15):
as it is to think about those things. They do
not define who you are. You have let them define
who you are, but they don't. They're very they're believe
it or not, they're a very small part of who
you are. They don't even define that. There's something that
happened to you, and you walk around assuming that everybody
sees it and everybody knows it, and that everybody judges it.
(19:37):
And that's where you're wrong on all accounts. And it's
very sad period, and it's an ugly story. But there
are things that can happen to you in life, especially
when you're so young. And the key now in scripture,
it says as a child, I thought like a child
and acted like a child. And as an adult, I
(19:59):
think like an adult and I act like an adult.
And that's to say that there are things that are
going to happen to you. There are things that you're
going to learn or know at different levels of age,
and you were to deal with them differently on those
levels of age. And so something happened to you a
long time ago. That's ugly, and now is the time
to work through it and to shed that from you.
(20:20):
You are a wonderful creature, God given, God breathed. You
have a purpose, and I assure you that purpose wasn't
to be raped.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
As a seven year old, I really really loved the Lord.
I've loved them since I was seventeen or eighteen. I
accepted them, and you know, obviously everyone falls back and
then they go back. But I've never been the type
to sleep around or anything.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Yeah, well good, that's not healthy. It's not healthy either.
It's not about getting over that so that you can
go into that. What I want is you to feel
the beauty because sex, in its proper context and the
beauty of people coming together was made by God. Don't
let somebody.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
Abuse to to date because there's so many it's it's
almost as though things have changed in the world, and
it's hard because nobody really knows. I mean, you can
love someone just by looking at them or with your hands,
you know, holding hands.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Of course, of course.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
It's just there are still really really if I see
someone really cute that wants to ask me out, I
can't go. I just don't. I don't know. I just
don't feel like I'm gonna make it.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
And that's why you need to get into some good
Christian counseling. And you need to work through that because
there's there's a plan that God has for you, and
it was stolen and sidetracked by someone else. But that
plan still exists and there's much to get to and
to focus in on. That evil act is to lose
(22:02):
sight of what God has moving forward.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
I love people, I really do. I love him. I
look for the good of them, and gosh, it's my
whole life. Just you know. Every day I pray and say,
let my heart be your heart, my eyes your eyes,
my thoughts be your thoughts, and I pray for this
(22:25):
to go away.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
I know, but it's something that was done to you,
and there's something now that you need to do yourself.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
I don't know who to vote to or anything.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Well, you know, and I just are you a part
of the church.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
I want to wipe her out.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
No, that's not the way things work. Sometimes there you
have to participate in. It's cleans and it's cleansing. That's
what makes the cleansing work. It's not about a brooke.
I don't want it to be erasing your memory. I
don't want it to be, you know, some surgical removal.
I don't want it to be any of that. It
has to be you working through it. It happened to you,
you have to It's not going to unhappen to you.
(23:09):
You have to be able to work through it.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
How does it sell work to help other people that
I've run into and it's just does nothing for me?
I mean, I love it, I'm not, you know, upset
about that. I wouldn't change it because I like who
I am, but I just don't like how I feel.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
It's because they take your advice. You won't even take mine.
That's why they get something from you, because they're listening
and they're acting on it, which is what I want
you to do. And Brooke, it's ugly. It's no one's
going to deny that. It's ugly, and it's painful, and
it was thrust upon you, and I know you don't
(23:49):
want to deal with it, and it's unfair and all
those things. But your life is only going to slowly
decay and blow away unless you seize it now and
you find you Are you going to a church?
Speaker 4 (24:03):
Not at the moment.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
No, Well that's a good place to start, is to
find a good church. And I want to put you
on hold and We're going to get your information and
we'll see if we can't find some help for her
in her area to find a good church and somebody,
a church that has some pastoral counseling and like that
(24:26):
can guide you. So we will do that for you,
because I think that's absolutely the next step when you
go through things, and you will. The world is not
made of nerve, and there are a lot of sharp
edges emotionally, physically, spiritually, and harm can come upon you.
(24:52):
Nothing more vulgar than harm being brought to a child.
Throughout scripture, you will hear me say things about the
harming of children being wrong, and some very colorful language
that is used to remind people how bad it would
(25:13):
be if they were to hurt a child. But things
can't happen ugly. Things do happen, And the concept of
somebody and the reality of somebody taking your trust, especially
a family member at the age of seven, and abusing
(25:35):
you physically and sexually for their own gratification is at
the height of vulgarity. But it's not over. And where
you leave those things that happen to you, and part
of it is the shame and that feeling that everybody's
(25:56):
looking at everybody's seeing, and everybody knows. But you have
to get past that first and foremost that you are
a child of God and you have value, inherent value
to God. And this life is it going to be
a purposeful one built on the things of God and
(26:17):
the truth that God tells you? Or is it going
to be one that is stuck in neutral because the
ugly things that man does. It will take time and focus,
and it will feel like the disgusting concept of pulling
(26:39):
off an old scab and redigging into a wound. But
all for the benefit, all for new growth and for
new strength. And it has to be done so that
you can take ownership of the things in your life
and the things that come your way, and that you
can give them to God in a way that is practical,
(27:01):
balanced and productive. Kf I AM six forty on demand
You're listening to KFI A six on demand, Larry, welcome
to that Jesus Christ show.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Oh, thank you, thank you. First of all, I believe
in God, but I can't quite conceive of heaven and hell.
I just can't buy into it. It seems like a
fairy tale to me.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Sure I can. I can imagine. It does seem by
the way it's made kind of like and everyone will
live happily ever after, well some. But what gets you
the most about it? If you believe in God, and
I'm assuming you believe that God is outside of the
(00:46):
temporal world, right, yes, so you believe that God is
all knowing? Does he have omni attributes? Is he all powerful? Okay?
So he has all the omni attributes. He's outside of time,
So time is not of a concern to God. God
creates time, but is not bound by time. Okay, So
(01:06):
you have, you know, a God without limitations. Where does
it come in that you have a concern about well afterlife.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
I'm willing to believe that a person makes their heaven
and hell on earth. I just can't see eternity, gnashing
of teeth, walking on hot coals. I just can't buy
into it.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Well, some of that is imagery. I know, theologians go
back and forth a lot of times. That's that's a
type of language is used because there's nothing else that
humans would really understand. Otherwise, if you just said it's
the separation between man and God, you know, some people
would go, well, great, that's like telling a child, Hey,
(01:55):
you know, hell is when your parents go away on
vacation and the house is all yours and they think, oh,
this is great. But really it's about the repercussions of that. Okay,
now the parents aren't paying the bills. You've got to
pay the bills. Okay, Now the parents aren't there to
show you how to run the house, so that you've
got that the weight of that. Really, the absence of
God is what hell is. It's not the hell fire
(02:18):
and all that. Those are concepts to get people to
understand the intensity and the lack of satiation that is hell.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Well, I was brought up in Pentecostal Holy Roller fundamental
and they fully believe in that. You know, the concept
of fire and damnation.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Well, there's not there's nothing to say that there isn't
fire there. My point being that it's it's not about
physical fire, because if it's just about physical fire, those
are things you can be afraid of on earth, right,
it's about the it's about uh, the the concepts of
(03:03):
being without something that even the atheist is getting benefits
from God. While on earth, as God sees over everything,
the mere existence and enjoying a sunset or a sunrise
or anything that takes place in God's creation, they still
get the benefit of so they don't fully understand the
absence of God. And one way to put that is
(03:26):
that kind of ever burning flame that only consumes and
never benefits. And there's not really a way to truly
paint that anymore than the streets of heaven are paved
with gold, because that's something of value to people here.
But gold it doesn't have value to God exactly. You
don't know that by some of the churches out there.
(03:47):
But my point being that those are things to help
apply human understanding to things that that humans can't understand.
If you remember, in Scripture, I was asked what heaven
was like and my response was what My response was,
why do you want me to tell you about heaven
when you don't even understand the things of earth. It
(04:09):
wasn't to go Oh well, it's got gold and it's
going to be great, and it's it's those are those
are descriptions that are based in a way that that
humans can kind of understand that even the streets are
more valuable than your most valuable possession. So the very
thing you walk on in heaven is more valuable than
(04:29):
your most valuable possessions. That's what it's trying to convey.
And likewise with the fire, it's this unquenchable, consistent consumption
with nothing that given back, no benefits, no nothing.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
So would I be comfortable and saying that you make
your heaven, you make your hell right on earth?
Speaker 1 (04:52):
No, because it's not that's part of the temporal. That's
you again trying to deal with the temporal, and it's outside.
It's equal. That's it's like you making your God on earth.
How reasonable would that be?
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (05:03):
So, why would God's home, I e. Heaven be on earth.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
It's so big and so mystifying to me. And I
pray for faith. You know, the Bible says He's willing
to give you ten times more than you asked for.
And I pray for faith and I just can't get it.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Well, faith is one of those things that is that
has to be applied, and the applying of faith is
where people get stuck. It's like a chair. You can
look at the chair and know that it's a chair.
You can look at the chair, know that it's a chair,
and know what it's used for people sit in it.
You can look at the chair, know that it's chair,
(05:48):
people sit in it. You can know that it appears
to be made out of wood and or metal, and
that it will hold your structure, hold you, and it
is structurally has structural integrity all of these things. However,
it's not until you sit in it that it truly
becomes a chair and it truly has the value of
being a chair because you're applying it's chairness to your life.
(06:10):
So likewise, with faith, you can understand it, you can
see it, you can even read it in scripture, you
can recite it, you can pray it. But if you're
not applying it in ways, if there's not things in
your life larry that you're not even applying it. In
this concept, you already believe in a God, and you
may even believe in scripture and all of those things,
(06:31):
and if you're not trusting God for this final piece
that you can't know because there's only one that has
died and come back truly, and you're talking to him,
so that has that experience. So in order to really
understand it, you'd have to experience it. You won't experience
it till you're dead. So now that faith has to
(06:53):
come in. And if you're not going to apply that
to this very thing, then there's a there's going to
be a faith issue in there most certainly.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Right, Well, I purvenly believe in God. I just can't
see a world a life without God.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Well that's hell.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
But I know that as time goes by, men and
bellies and add on to the stories down the ages,
and yeah, that's what I get stuck on.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Well, you know what a lot of people say that
the old telephone concept, you know, holding up the telephone
and telling somebody and then by the end, you know,
you play that grade school and by the end time
it gets to the end, it's different. However, when you
read scripture and history about how it was written down
and passed along, it's funny how people hold scripture to
(07:54):
this weird standard and not the rest of history. There
are over twenty five thousand parts and whole manuscripts of
the New Testament alone throughout the centuries. You can go
back and check the different variants to see how off
they were, and they're not. As a matter of fact,
in the forties when they discovered the Dead Sea Scrolls,
(08:16):
and one of the books they discovered was the entire
works of Isaiah, the Book of Isaiah, and there was
nothing changed. And those were the oldest ones. And what
people fail to understand that not unlike science, science being
observational that when they observe something new, it sheds light
(08:40):
on something else. Well, in this science, when you're dealing
with books of antiquity, writings of antiquity, you're only dealing
with the oldest manuscript These are the oldest ones that
we have. That's not to say these are the oldest
ones in existence. We just may may not have found them.
Like when you're dealing with and they find them all
the time, they don't make the news that much unless you're,
(09:03):
you know, one of those types that like to read,
you know, Biblical archaeology review or something people don't know.
So keep in mind that there's new works. Fine, when
they find these new texts and they use them and
they compare them and they see if there were any changes,
and there's just not never anything that changed the meaning.
As a matter of fact, a Bible that's the first
(09:25):
one to use the Dead Sea Scrolls Book of Isaiah
to translate the Book of Isaiah, so you have the
best information there is. So we know now that there
wasn't some sort of telephone where things got changed and
change because you have multiple different you know, people's television
or telephone notes and they all match up. And I
(09:51):
know that that faith is always one of those topics
that just it's like, well, how do I apply it?
Where do I go? How do I use it? Type thing?
But really, if there's if you can come alongside and
run with God through certain concepts, you're already there. It's
about implying applying them. And the afterlife is a big
(10:13):
one to people. But if you understand that that God
is already eternal, then sometimes it makes it a little
easier to understand the concepts. Just like there's graduations in
all parts of life. You leave childhood and go into adolescence,
you leave adolescence and go into adulthood, and all those
(10:36):
things become different, a different part of who you are.
And this is one more graduation from your old age
into your spiritualness, your true spiritual being. And that's a
pretty hardcore thing to think about. It's but there's many
things in life that are complex or weighty that you
(11:01):
take on faith all the time. Most people do not
learn how the combustion engine works before they drive a car.
They drive it, and that's kind of the process that
needs to be used when you're dealing with things of faith.
It gets very difficult to try and parse all the specifics,
especially about heaven and how it's to know, though, that
(11:24):
there is a punishment of sorts that suits the crime
of rejecting God. A lot of people wrestle with that.
On its face, well, you know, I'm being punished for eternity.
It seems like it doesn't make sense, but really it
flows from God's love. God loves his creation so much
(11:46):
that he won't force you to love him back. And
if you reject him, if you say I don't care
about you for the measly eighty ninety one hundred years
I'm on this planet, I don't want to be with you,
and God won't force you to be with him for
eternity allows you to be somewhere else. But it's in
that absence that you lack all those things that you've
(12:08):
experienced with God for free on earth, whether you believe
or don't believe. And the punishment does fit the crime.
If you think about doing the same act that you know,
slapping another human being, it's wrong, But you slap a cop,
it's wrong. Plus it's a different offense. You slap the
(12:30):
face of a holy, righteous, eternal God. Then the punishment
that will meet that will be holy, righteous and eternal,
just simply by definition.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Brook.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show. Hi, Hi, thanks for
being so patient.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Thank you. I've had this problem kind of for a
long time and I've actually been able to tell it.
Oh gosh, not too many years ago, and I'm about fifty.
I was molested when I was seven years old, more
than once, and it kind of I didn't really you know,
(13:18):
at that age, I didn't know what was going on. Sure,
and then I was kidnapped, but you know, I felt
like something was wrong.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Okay, okay, but wait, you said, and you were kidnapped at.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
When I was sixteen in one of my.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Mom's house really by someone that knew the family or
a complete stranger.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
I was a.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
Stranger and they didn't find him. But you know, since
that time, my mind has a really strong block on it.
I can put up bricks really easy, and I kind
of left it out for a long time, but I
never really gosh, I don't know if I can say this.
I never really liked to be into that, and and
(14:00):
yet I knew it was normal and natural at the
right time. I love the Lord, He's my number one,
but you know, and it's been used also. I believe
all things are used for the good to help others,
which it has, But as far as myself, you know,
when I start to have a relationship or meet someone
(14:23):
that's cute, I feel completely ugly, no good. I hate sex.
I don't want it, but yet I do because I
want to be normal, and I just am depressed.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Well physiologically. Is there something that takes place during sex
or is it just the concept of it? Does it
take your brain back somewhere?
Speaker 3 (14:47):
Probably both. It's like I just feel dirty, I feel
like I'm wrong, like I'm ugly, and I think when
I was molested, my brother had actually told me, you know,
if you do this with anyone else, he's gonna they're
gonna think you're a pig and don't tell anybody, and
you know, things like that.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
So this was.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Your brother who blested you? And was he ever brought
up on charges or anything?
Speaker 3 (15:14):
No? No, I never even told my parents. My father
passed up a few years back, and a few years
before he passed, I actually let it out.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
M hmmm. And uh, has he ever your brother been
arrested for harming and touching anyone else?
Speaker 3 (15:37):
You know, I really don't want to have.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
Because I love him as a person. I don't like
I love him as a human because he's a lord,
but I don't love him as a person.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Do you have any relationship or contact with him anymore?
And have you ever talked to him about it? Later?
Speaker 4 (16:00):
Kind of in the Lord's actually told me to grow
to you. Didn't say I was sorry even not wasn't me?
And I did, and I forgive him, but it's affect me.
I don't know, I really, you know. I pray and
pray and pray, and I just I'm not sure how
(16:25):
I hadn't learn anymore. I try to go out with
people and then when they start to get weird, I just,
you know, I couldn't run away.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
What do you mean when they start to get weird?
Speaker 4 (16:40):
You know, like if if if I start to like him,
it's like I kind of block him away because I
know what it's going to lead to. Even when I
was married, I got to the point where I just
didn't want it anymore, but I did because I thought
that's what you were supposed to do, and I didn't
want to lose them, and I did.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Anyway, Well, this is I mean, you're at a very
young age. You say you were seven.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
That's a lot to take on and to not understand
fully and have the mechanics of it is one thing
versus the emotional contribution and how you deal with that.
Have you gone to any sort of counseling.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
No. I you know, it's funny. I often thought, you know,
someone could just have a twice me and just make
me forget it so I could be normal. That would
be better. I've prayed all my life, you know, except
sometimes I blocked it out and I think I'm just
kind of a silly and funny person. I you know,
(17:49):
people tell me I'm pretty everything else but it and
I say thank you, but I don't believe it. At all.
It just doesn't register.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Yeah, you've got a lot of crud on you emotionally,
you got a lot of crud that you see that
no one else sees. But the fact that you're at
at a place where you should have seen counseling at
this point to work through these things.
Speaker 4 (18:17):
It's so weird because I actually counsel. Other people will
not counsel. I'm not a counsel, but I talk to
other people about it, and it seems it's like the
Lord uses it. But it's like, Lord, I need to
help me. I just want to be normal.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah, so what's stopping you from And this doesn't change
your your normality? This it just it may make you
feel like you're not normal. But the fact is everybody
goes through different things in their life that partially define
who they are and their outlook on things. But this isn't.
(18:55):
This isn't who you are. This is something that happened
to you. And there's a difference seeing no one can
take your heart, no one can take your emotions or
anything like that. They can take your body and they
can do things to you, but they're not even really
doing things with you. And it is ugly and vulgar
(19:15):
as it is to think about those things. They do
not define who you are. You have let them define
who you are, but they don't. They're very they're believe
it or not, they're a very small part of who
you are. They don't even define that. There's something that
happened to you, and you walk around assuming that everybody
sees it and everybody knows it, and that everybody judges it.
(19:37):
And that's where you're wrong on all accounts. And it's
very sad period, and it's an ugly story. But there
are things that can happen to you in life, especially
when you're so young. And the key now in scripture,
it says as a child, I thought like a child
and acted like a child. And as an adult, I
(19:59):
think like an adult and I act like an adult.
And that's to say that there are things that are
going to happen to you. There are things that you're
going to learn or know at different levels of age,
and you were to deal with them differently on those
levels of age. And so something happened to you a
long time ago. That's ugly, and now is the time
to work through it and to shed that from you.
(20:20):
You are a wonderful creature, God given, God breathed. You
have a purpose, and I assure you that purpose wasn't
to be raped.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
As a seven year old, I really really loved the Lord.
I've loved them since I was seventeen or eighteen. I
accepted them, and you know, obviously everyone falls back and
then they go back. But I've never been the type
to sleep around or anything.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
Yeah, well good, that's not healthy. It's not healthy either.
It's not about getting over that so that you can
go into that. What I want is you to feel
the beauty because sex, in its proper context and the
beauty of people coming together was made by God. Don't
let somebody.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
Abuse to to date because there's so many it's it's
almost as though things have changed in the world, and
it's hard because nobody really knows. I mean, you can
love someone just by looking at them or with your hands,
you know, holding hands.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Of course, of course.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
It's just there are still really really if I see
someone really cute that wants to ask me out, I
can't go. I just don't. I don't know. I just
don't feel like I'm gonna make it.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
And that's why you need to get into some good
Christian counseling. And you need to work through that because
there's there's a plan that God has for you, and
it was stolen and sidetracked by someone else. But that
plan still exists and there's much to get to and
to focus in on. That evil act is to lose
(22:02):
sight of what God has moving forward.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
I love people, I really do. I love him. I
look for the good of them, and gosh, it's my
whole life. Just you know. Every day I pray and say,
let my heart be your heart, my eyes your eyes,
my thoughts be your thoughts, and I pray for this
(22:25):
to go away.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
I know, but it's something that was done to you,
and there's something now that you need to do yourself.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
I don't know who to vote to or anything.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Well, you know, and I just are you a part
of the church.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
I want to wipe her out.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
No, that's not the way things work. Sometimes there you
have to participate in. It's cleans and it's cleansing. That's
what makes the cleansing work. It's not about a brooke.
I don't want it to be erasing your memory. I
don't want it to be, you know, some surgical removal.
I don't want it to be any of that. It
has to be you working through it. It happened to you,
you have to It's not going to unhappen to you.
(23:09):
You have to be able to work through it.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
How does it sell work to help other people that
I've run into and it's just does nothing for me?
I mean, I love it, I'm not, you know, upset
about that. I wouldn't change it because I like who
I am, but I just don't like how I feel.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
It's because they take your advice. You won't even take mine.
That's why they get something from you, because they're listening
and they're acting on it, which is what I want
you to do. And Brooke, it's ugly. It's no one's
going to deny that. It's ugly, and it's painful, and
it was thrust upon you, and I know you don't
(23:49):
want to deal with it, and it's unfair and all
those things. But your life is only going to slowly
decay and blow away unless you seize it now and
you find you Are you going to a church?
Speaker 4 (24:03):
Not at the moment.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
No, Well that's a good place to start, is to
find a good church. And I want to put you
on hold and We're going to get your information and
we'll see if we can't find some help for her
in her area to find a good church and somebody,
a church that has some pastoral counseling and like that
(24:26):
can guide you. So we will do that for you,
because I think that's absolutely the next step when you
go through things, and you will. The world is not
made of nerve, and there are a lot of sharp
edges emotionally, physically, spiritually, and harm can come upon you.
(24:52):
Nothing more vulgar than harm being brought to a child.
Throughout scripture, you will hear me say things about the
harming of children being wrong, and some very colorful language
that is used to remind people how bad it would
(25:13):
be if they were to hurt a child. But things
can't happen ugly. Things do happen, And the concept of
somebody and the reality of somebody taking your trust, especially
a family member at the age of seven, and abusing
(25:35):
you physically and sexually for their own gratification is at
the height of vulgarity. But it's not over. And where
you leave those things that happen to you, and part
of it is the shame and that feeling that everybody's
(25:56):
looking at everybody's seeing, and everybody knows. But you have
to get past that first and foremost that you are
a child of God and you have value, inherent value
to God. And this life is it going to be
a purposeful one built on the things of God and
(26:17):
the truth that God tells you? Or is it going
to be one that is stuck in neutral because the
ugly things that man does. It will take time and focus,
and it will feel like the disgusting concept of pulling
(26:39):
off an old scab and redigging into a wound. But
all for the benefit, all for new growth and for
new strength. And it has to be done so that
you can take ownership of the things in your life
and the things that come your way, and that you
can give them to God in a way that is practical,
(27:01):
balanced and productive. Kf I AM six forty on demand
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