August 18, 2024 • 28 mins
Family split over Bible
Are other religions praying to the same God
Spanish Mass
Are other religions praying to the same God
Spanish Mass
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to KFI AM six forty on demand. D
Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
My problem is my family and the Bible.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Okay and not a good start.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Weird, but hello, yeah, I'm here.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Okay, this may sound weird that our whole family was
raised in Catholicism back in the days and then life
happened and I don't read the Bible. I try to
run my life with what I believe in my heart
and according I believe that I'm taking in the principles.
But most of my family are what people call the thumpers.
(00:40):
They pay everything literally, and I can't talk to anymore
because they just push it in my face instead of
like practicing what I think they're reading. I don't believe
they practice it, and so I can't communicate, and I
feel like I'm wrong or they're right, or and I'm confused.
I'm confused.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Well, it's not necessarily either, or it could be both,
and you can learn something and so can they. Wouldn't
you agree? Sure, it doesn't have to be you're wrong
or or they are wrong. It's not about that necessarily.
Maybe maybe there's some learning that can be done on
both sides, because you know it. People often just get
to into that mindset that that they're wrong or you're wrong.
(01:24):
And I would say that you have every right to
be left alone and to not have them cram it
down your throat, because you know what happens when people
cram things down your.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Throat, Well you don't listen.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Well, you're throw them back up, probably right, you know.
And it's not fair, and it's it's there's nothing in
scripture that says, you know, take this book and see
if you can feed it to somebody in thirty seconds.
It's it's not fair. But also they're not here to
defend themselves. So we'll just look at you if we could, candy,
and just look at ways that you can deal with this.
(01:57):
I prefer the direct, honest route.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
You know.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
If somebody's doing that, just say, hey, listen, I know
that you think you're trying to do something good for me,
but really it's off putting. It just bothers me. It
seems it seems hoity and above, and you make me
feel bad about myself and I don't think that that's
that's productive. And you make me question things, but not
(02:20):
in a good way. You might make me question wanting
to talk to you or be around you, and really,
if you want to have an open discussion to talk
about things. There might be times where it's appropriate and
where I would welcome it, but not every day. Sometimes
I just miss you guys, or want to see you
or want to talk with you or want to hang out.
And about starting at the beginning, and how people don't
(02:45):
do that when they share their faith. They just want
to kind of cram it down your throat rather than
just saying, hey, listen, this is some experiences I've had,
or this is why I have gone down the path
that I have, or why I'm no longer a practicing
cat like, or whatever their change may be. I like
the way you put it that life does happen and
people change, but it's not fair. You have every right
(03:08):
to say this is not what I'm interested in or
what I want to hear about. Having said that, I
will because you brought it up. I will say that
I'm always concerned about people who because both sides are
a little extreme. You've got somebody who seems like they're
not living it, but they're just cramming it down other
people's throats. As you put it, and say that they're
(03:30):
not really living it, they're just talking about it. And
then on the other hand, you have somebody like yourself,
you described that you, well, I believe that I'm kind
of living these tenets or these beliefs, and that concerns
me as well. I recently had a conversation d with
someone who was saying, well, I'm a good person, and
isn't that all that matters is if you're a good
(03:50):
person and you live this way, And I said, no,
it really isn't. That's a part of it, but it's
not the whole thing. And they were having a hard
time understanding that. And I explained to them that, for instance,
in a marriage all good in all good marriages, there's
not infidelity. Right, So if you're gonna have a if
(04:11):
if you're gonna have a good marriage, it can't be
sleeping around as well, Right, that's not going to produce
a good marriage. However, just because you're not sleeping around
doesn't mean you have a good marriage, right, that's true. Okay,
So okay, So my point here is that just because
you're living a good life doesn't mean that you're right
with God or that you're under you know, you're understanding
(04:32):
or taking in the truths of God or what God
will have you do. Just because you're not sinning. Uh,
it takes more to So the absence of doing bad
doesn't mean that you're good. It just means you're not
doing those things. For first Secondly, there's other parts of
that good that are more important, and those are the
(04:55):
reasons for the laws or the reasons for what you're
doing that is called good. So in the process of
a law, there's the law. And I always use this
example because people remember it simply is the speed limit. Okay,
it's fifty five sixty five miles per hour on the highways,
So that's the law, and you could say I'm driving
(05:15):
fifty five sixty five. But the spirit of the law
is what's important, and that is that driving in a
safe manner keeps people from dying or getting hurt. So
people's people not getting hurt is more important than the law,
because that's what the law is all about. So it's
not why you're good or that you're being good, it's
why you're good. It's important. So if you're good just
(05:37):
because well culture says to do it this way, that's
not really necessarily good because some cultures can be wrong.
If it's because God says to do it this way,
and God is the creator or the author of all creation,
well then you need to know more about God to
understand the purpose of what you're doing and why it's good.
(05:58):
So that's why I say it's not about being good,
because like the marriage analogy, you can have a bad
marriage and not be sleeping around with other people. However,
you can't have a good marriage and be sleeping around
with people the old you know, uh, what they call
an informal logical fallacy. All police carry guns, but not
everybody that carries a gun is a police. So in
(06:20):
this particular sense, yes, all people who are living a
life for God should be doing good things, but not
everybody who is doing good things is living a life
for God. So that that's what I want you to
think about, d because you called, and so I want
to I want to impart you with something because you're
the one brave enough to call and they're not here
to defend themselves. However, do I condone condone people Bible
(06:44):
thumping and cramming their faith down in your throat? Absolutely
positively not. And if you told me you were an happy,
happy atheist and you didn't want that. I think you
absolutely should have the right to be such.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Well, what should I do then? Do you feel that
I should be bridging the gap to reconnect with them,
because that's what I should be doing, even though when
they talk to me I feel that it's evil coming
at me.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Well, if you genuinely miss them, I think you can
call them and say, you know what, I genuinely miss you.
I miss I miss this. I miss when you tell jokes.
I miss when we would bake together. I miss when
we would talk about books that we read that weren't
the Bible. I missed that when we talked about movies
we watch. I miss the person I grew up with.
And I just wanted you to know the reason why
(07:31):
I'm missing that, the reason why I've sacrificed that in
my life, because every time we get together it's about X,
Y and Z, and I can't build a relationship with that.
That's not a relationship builder. Do you think that I
sat around the fire with the twelve and only talked
about the Bible all the time. No, that's just not
the way things work. And in this particular case, the
(07:53):
best thing to do is to be very honest with
them and say, I know this may come across as hurtful,
and it's not that I'm not curious, and it's not
that I don't want to grow, but the way you're
doing it to me, it offends me and it makes
me not want to see you. And if you tell
me that that's the way it's going to be, then
I respect that and I'll go on my merry way.
(08:14):
But I do miss you and I do miss us
having normal interaction and you know those things, and just
explain that to them and if if they listen, they listen,
and hopefully, you know, God will plant that seed in
their heart will grow, and if they choose to reject it,
then you move on.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Okay, thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Well, thank you for calling D. Very brave of you
and I and I always like when when someone calls
who's uh, you know, maybe being mistreated by Christians or
the church or doesn't. The fact that you find this
to be a safe enough place uh to bring your
concerns really pleases me. And it doesn't mean that I'm
always going to agree with you. Doesn't mean that in
(08:58):
your eyes, I will will always treat you nicely. Some
people don't see tough love or a firm response as nice,
and I don't. I don't understand that. But the fact
that you called d pleases me, and that you're very
brave and stand your ground and truth will out on
both sides. Frank, Welcome to the Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Hi Jesus.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Frank.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Thank you for your show and I appreciate them, enjoy
especially all your analogies.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Oh, thank you.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Well, you know what they're like.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Yes, analogies are like I got another one for you, Frank,
what if there were no hypothetical questions.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Everyway? My question is something I have kind of a
problem with. I'm a believer in you, and I believe
you are who you've said you are. And I have
a hard time thinking that people of other religions, maybe
especially the Abrahamic religions, are not in fact praying to
(10:08):
the same God, the Father God, that I pray to.
And I wondered if there does God not here since
the sincere prayer and intention of people of other religions,
and I have a hard time believing these people are
not saved and go to heavens as many people sort
(10:33):
of taught.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Kind of an ugly thought. It seems awkward to think
that God, that God would work in that way, doesn't ith.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Yeah, I mean, just that's I mean, I have to
live with my head in my rationality things no matter
what I hear or what I you know, it's hard
to believe that. I mean, there's so many good, good people,
wonderful people, maybe people better than someone, some people who
(11:02):
are received or say they received Jesus CHRISTI as their savior. Okay,
this is difficult for me too to rationalize, you know.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Okay, so let's ask ourselves those questions and think about
the possible responses. And there's the sincerity, the human touch
on things and getting wrapped up in the humanity of
something is good. I mean, you're human. That's the purpose
of it is to think humanly about the way you
interact with the world and the way the world interacts
(11:35):
with you and to you. It's legitimate and fair to
have differing opinions and thoughts out there. However, if you're
a math teacher, you wouldn't allow that same premise. You
wouldn't say, well, whatever you think two plus two equals
is fine. If you were a chemist, you wouldn't do that.
A scientist. You wouldn't do that. A baker, you wouldn't
(11:56):
do that. Well, one cup, one tablespoon, and you know
they both have flower in it. No, the recipe comes
out completely different, as does the equation, as does the
chemical compound, as does all of these things. That's just
the way life works. In truth. The emotional aspect of
it is when you think, really, what comes down to
(12:18):
it is if you think that way, it's you're not
putting enough importance on the absolute nature of God. You're
making God kind of chameleon like. Well, God can look
the other way on this. Well, that's not up to Frank,
that's up to God. Right, So hold on tight. We
(12:40):
got to take a quick break, but I want you
to hang on, Frank, because I want to explain some
more things in just a moment as to why that's
different and why differing views may have problems, and where
that lands, and why that's not just an ugly part
of God. We've been taught talking with Frank. Frank, your
(13:01):
question essentially is, you know, does God respect all religions?
And I know you you mentioned the Abrahammick belief systems,
but ultimately it's very human to go you know what,
God should be fair and kind of give somebody a
(13:21):
pass here, give somebody a pass there. But if you
read through scripture, the whole problem lie lays in the
fact that everybody wanted to pass all the time, and
the people of Israel wanted to pass, and there was
always well, can't we just do this? Can't we just
do that? There has to be a right way. There
has to be otherwise you can't. If there's no right way,
(13:44):
then you can't do anything wrong. And if you can't
do anything wrong that there's no morality. There's no otness,
there's no ethos, there's no mora's, there's no there's none
of that because there's no implied should do or implied
should not do?
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Right.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
You kind of need that in life.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
No, I think I do. But I think there are
people and other religions who are extremely moral and have,
you know, very even strict moral codes, and are very
good people, and they're not contrary to even the ways
I act like a good Christian.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Okay, should be, Let's take it off of good person
because person is so ambiguous. It's really well, that means
you don't murder. Let's take it off that and say
a good soldier. Now, if you said somebody was being
a good soldier, that would imply specific understandings, and no
longer you get out of the ambiguity of oh, well,
(14:45):
they're a good person, because nobody wants to judge what
a good person is. That's where the problem lies. That's
where your humanity comes in. Frank you don't want to
judge another person for being human. But God can. And
so if I say soldier, if I put one modifier,
or a good cook or a good chef and all
those those those things could be subjective. If you say
(15:08):
good baker, not really subjective because bakery is more science
based in the fact that it's it's very measurement focused,
in chemistry focused. But if you go through these things
and you say, oh, they're good this or good that.
Once you add a modifier, you feel it's okay to
define whether they're good at it or not. They're a
good mechanic, they're a good driver. But when you say
(15:28):
good person is where you get, oh, I don't feel
I don't feel okay about defining that, but God can.
God can say it's you're not a good person because
you don't murder someone. There's more to it than that
God is the author of those rules to begin with,
so God can say when they're applied properly or not.
Now you get into the different faiths. Yes, it seems
(15:50):
very awkward and rude as a human being to go
there wrong. But you brought up the word sincere a
couple of times, and and you can be sincere and
be sincerely wrong. Yeah, And so that applies to many things,
including religion. And it's not about it's not about the belief.
(16:13):
It's about what you reject. And if you're rejecting God
on God's rules, God's wants, God's demands, then you're wrong.
So it's not about while Christians are better than Muslims,
or Muslims are better than Jews, it's not about that.
(16:34):
That's a human desire to want to say my club's
better than yours. You separate the club factor. It's not
about that. It's God saying this is how you get
in my house. Now, if that's like me saying that
it's weird that when you go to your house, Frank,
that people have to take their shoes off, that's like saying, well,
(16:54):
that's wrong, Why would no, it's Frank's house. If you
want your visitors take their shoes off, that's right in
your house. Correct, correct, Because whether it's you know, some
silly reason, maybe you've got white carpet. I've never understood
white people get white carpet and then nobody's allowed to
walk on it. But let's say you have white carpet, Frank,
and you don't want anybody walking with their soiled feet
(17:17):
on it. You say, you take your shoes off. That's
your rule. Now you may not feel comfortable telling everybody
that that's wrong, but when it comes to your house
and who gets in your house, that's okay. And I'm saying,
when it comes to my house, which is Heaven, there's
one way in. That's the understand who I am. That's important.
(17:40):
Now you people say, oh, so you could be a
murder and do whatever, and all you got to understand
is Jesus God. No, because if you understand that Jesus
is God, you're not going to be out murdering.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
So people of other religions who have indeed heard your
name and.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Know about you and reject it and.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Are in fact not safe, and that's that's the story
for them.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Well, let me put it to you this way if
if there's a grocery store at the end of main
street and you tell them there's a grocery store at
the end of main street and they reject that, will
they ever get to the grocery store at the end
of main street? Is? Why is that difficult? That is
not about It's that people keep wanting to put the
(18:27):
names in the faces of these religions so that it
pulls on your heartstrings. You go, these are people. Of course,
there are many cults out there, and I'm not talking
about the mainstream religion. I'm talking about many factions and
cults filled with good people, right, but they're horrible, horrible
belief systems that are damaging to those individuals. And that's like,
(18:49):
do you want a sincere doctor or do you want
an educated and a doctor who's efficient. I mean, well,
I really, really really thought I could do brain surgery.
I really believed it. I really believed it. That's not
what you want. And so it's not just about those things.
(19:10):
And I know it sounds nasty because now because people think, well,
now it's Frank saying that his religion's right. No truth
is truth is truth. When you say two plus two
equals four. That's not oh, Frank says his math is right. No,
that's two plus two equals four.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Okay, So here we have I believe, accept and believe
everything you're saying. And from the get go I believe
in you. Now, for me personally, I don't seem to
have any particular you know, impetus to go out and evangelize.
(19:46):
I feel that if people have heard your name and
God knows you're you're you're everywhere and in news and
in churches and schools and everywhere, I don't I don't
feel the need to go out and everybody I need
say listen, you know I'm a Christian and this is
(20:07):
this is it, and you should be and you you know.
So I don't know how to how to deal with that.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
You know, well, Frank, let me tell you something. You
drive up in a beautiful car. What's the first thing?
Another guy says, Hey, wow, that's beautiful. Where'd you get it?
How fast is it? Wants to know about it immediately.
If you lose weight, you come into work losing thirty pounds,
what's first thing? Someone says, Oh, my goodness, how'd you
do it? Someone who people know?
Speaker 4 (20:36):
Why your life?
Speaker 1 (20:37):
They exactly. And it doesn't mean that you shouldn't share it.
It means that sometimes I hound Christians for being so
darn lazy because they prefer to talk about it rather
than do it in a way that inspires other people
to ask questions. One Peter three fifteen says, to sanctify
Jesus's Lord in your heart, be ready to give a defense,
(20:57):
to give an answer to those who ask about the
hope that lies within you, with meekness and reverence. Now,
now that is such a beautiful synopsis of the whole thing. First,
it's about God. God's got to be first in your
life individually. Second, live in a way that people want
to ask you about who you are and why you
are the way you are, and be ready to give
(21:18):
them a legitimate answer when they ask, and always do
it in meekness and reverence. So being kind and respectful.
And when Christians we heard calls earlier would get people
that being mean spirited or saying well, this is the truth.
So I got to pound it. Could you imagine if
a teacher did that, the kid would reject it. Yeah,
(21:40):
So it's a matter of finding a balanced way, Frank,
to express these things. But I guarantee. People desire to
know truth. They do, everyone does. And if they see
you reacting to something truly, because remember it's not what
people say, it's not how they act, it's how they
react to something that really shows you the character of
who they are. And because they're taking off guard and
(22:01):
it's spurred the moment and they're reacting. And so when
they see you react painful things, or through things in
your life or whatever you're going through, and you react
a certain way, they want to know, how can you
How can you deal with that that way? Or such
great loss or pain? They will ask. You are a
(22:22):
walking marketing machine for your faith if you live it properly.
If you don't, then you've got to talk about it
like those like an infomercial. But wait, there's more, and
it's lcenes and dices and and everything else. And they
keep adding more information because they can't live live up
to it, and that demonstrative kind of execution of your
(22:45):
life they can't do. So they talk about it for
thirty minutes until somebody goes and buys it on the
on the at the phone number.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
And just what you're talking about now, I've been picturing
some friends of mine who I admire much for Christians,
you know, And that's exactly the picture. They're just great people,
the wonderful people. They don't come on strong about it,
(23:14):
you know, and their their lives are wonderful and I
admire them. And there that's it.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
There.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
They advertised me for you.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Yeah. No, nobody had to market uh my my birth.
There was no marketing. There was no Twitter. Nobody was
blogging about me when I was born, and people still
came from far away just to see the birth. There
was no There was no Bible. Yeah, yes, not not
in this form, absolutely so, so there's not. Everybody assumes
(23:46):
everything needs to be packaged and you put a spin
on it, but really, you don't need to market food
and water, you don't. People need to eat, they need
to drink. They will, they will seek it out. Animals
seek water, they know, they move their entire herd to
follow where the water goes. They will go. They will follow. Truth.
(24:09):
It's when you start to package it too much or
put a spin on it that you make people think, oh,
you know, what's the hook, what's the catch? And then
it becomes a problem. Frank, what a wonderful, wonderful call
and What an amazing and gentle spirit you have and
I'm happy to have talked with you. Joanna. Welcome to
(24:30):
the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
Good morning. I'm sorry, good hello, Jesus. I have a question.
As an Episcopalian, we just started, well about two months ago.
Our bishop added a Spanish Mass actually too, because we're growing.
It's growing so fast. We actually have people who sit
into vestry. I'm taking if those people come, I'm taking
(24:54):
my money and going elsewhere. What do I say and
what can I do? I mean, how can I.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Be loving those people? Are they referring to people that
speak Spanish?
Speaker 4 (25:06):
Speak Spanish? Yes, and hey, I go so that I
can improve my Spanish. It's a little rusty, so that's
why I go. And because he's so on fire for
the Lord that it's it's a blessing to go. So
what can I say to those who object?
Speaker 1 (25:25):
You get people who are who feel that the church
having services they have English services as well.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
Yeah, so we have three.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Okay, so this is just a few services that they're
doing as a as an outreach to the Hispanic community.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Because where I came from in San Jose, California, that's
where the biggest growth is our lady, while loub Parish
has over five thousand members.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Well, you know, it's it seems, uh, it seems a
little silly. But what do I say to somebody who's
who's has racial discomfort.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
Yeah, I guess that's the best way to put it.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Well, tip your hat and let them go their way.
You know what's funny is Joanna, They that you can
find churches that have electric instrument services and then they
have just organ services. There are some that have acoustic
services and they will tell you well, this is for
to try and get some of the younger people more interested,
(26:24):
or they have younger topics, or maybe a younger priest leading,
or a younger bishop leading, or someone who is the
pastor overseeing might be. You know, they have youth groups,
they have all kinds of different outreaches. And there are
many churches throughout the country that teach and preach in
different languages throughout the day, whether it be Korean or
(26:48):
what have you, or Spanish to super serve their community
because of the makeup of the community. That may offend some.
That may offend some, and it's their right to be offended. However,
really it's not a very loving attitude. If to go
into it saying, well, if they change the entire church service,
(27:11):
you know, all services to Spanish, well, then you get
up and you go to one that's English because it's
the church. Well, because the church is now saying that
we don't serve you English speakers, and and that I
could see would be upsetting. But even in radio, you
can find radio that is kind of Spanglish, kind of
half Spanish, half English. You can find English speaking radio,
(27:32):
you can find Spanish radio, you can find Korean radio.
You can find all kinds of different language radio in
the United States, as it pertains to a certain geographic area.
And although the language of the United States most certainly
is English, to the chagrin of some, that doesn't mean
that you can't super serve certain parts of your your community.
(27:56):
There are schools that teach primarily in French in the
United States. That's because that's the community that they're trying
to serve. So it's really based on a form of bigotry.
It's just somebody wanting to get upset. If it's really
infringing on you and it's no longer serving you at
the church, then get up and go but if not,
(28:18):
enjoy the English services and let other people enjoy it
in Spanish. Kf I AM six on demand
You're listening to KFI AM six forty on demand. D
Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
My problem is my family and the Bible.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Okay and not a good start.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Weird, but hello, yeah, I'm here.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Okay, this may sound weird that our whole family was
raised in Catholicism back in the days and then life
happened and I don't read the Bible. I try to
run my life with what I believe in my heart
and according I believe that I'm taking in the principles.
But most of my family are what people call the thumpers.
(00:40):
They pay everything literally, and I can't talk to anymore
because they just push it in my face instead of
like practicing what I think they're reading. I don't believe
they practice it, and so I can't communicate, and I
feel like I'm wrong or they're right, or and I'm confused.
I'm confused.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Well, it's not necessarily either, or it could be both,
and you can learn something and so can they. Wouldn't
you agree? Sure, it doesn't have to be you're wrong
or or they are wrong. It's not about that necessarily.
Maybe maybe there's some learning that can be done on
both sides, because you know it. People often just get
to into that mindset that that they're wrong or you're wrong.
(01:24):
And I would say that you have every right to
be left alone and to not have them cram it
down your throat, because you know what happens when people
cram things down your.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Throat, Well you don't listen.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Well, you're throw them back up, probably right, you know.
And it's not fair, and it's it's there's nothing in
scripture that says, you know, take this book and see
if you can feed it to somebody in thirty seconds.
It's it's not fair. But also they're not here to
defend themselves. So we'll just look at you if we could, candy,
and just look at ways that you can deal with this.
(01:57):
I prefer the direct, honest route.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
You know.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
If somebody's doing that, just say, hey, listen, I know
that you think you're trying to do something good for me,
but really it's off putting. It just bothers me. It
seems it seems hoity and above, and you make me
feel bad about myself and I don't think that that's
that's productive. And you make me question things, but not
(02:20):
in a good way. You might make me question wanting
to talk to you or be around you, and really,
if you want to have an open discussion to talk
about things. There might be times where it's appropriate and
where I would welcome it, but not every day. Sometimes
I just miss you guys, or want to see you
or want to talk with you or want to hang out.
And about starting at the beginning, and how people don't
(02:45):
do that when they share their faith. They just want
to kind of cram it down your throat rather than
just saying, hey, listen, this is some experiences I've had,
or this is why I have gone down the path
that I have, or why I'm no longer a practicing
cat like, or whatever their change may be. I like
the way you put it that life does happen and
people change, but it's not fair. You have every right
(03:08):
to say this is not what I'm interested in or
what I want to hear about. Having said that, I
will because you brought it up. I will say that
I'm always concerned about people who because both sides are
a little extreme. You've got somebody who seems like they're
not living it, but they're just cramming it down other
people's throats. As you put it, and say that they're
(03:30):
not really living it, they're just talking about it. And
then on the other hand, you have somebody like yourself,
you described that you, well, I believe that I'm kind
of living these tenets or these beliefs, and that concerns
me as well. I recently had a conversation d with
someone who was saying, well, I'm a good person, and
isn't that all that matters is if you're a good
(03:50):
person and you live this way, And I said, no,
it really isn't. That's a part of it, but it's
not the whole thing. And they were having a hard
time understanding that. And I explained to them that, for instance,
in a marriage all good in all good marriages, there's
not infidelity. Right, So if you're gonna have a if
(04:11):
if you're gonna have a good marriage, it can't be
sleeping around as well, Right, that's not going to produce
a good marriage. However, just because you're not sleeping around
doesn't mean you have a good marriage, right, that's true. Okay,
So okay, So my point here is that just because
you're living a good life doesn't mean that you're right
with God or that you're under you know, you're understanding
(04:32):
or taking in the truths of God or what God
will have you do. Just because you're not sinning. Uh,
it takes more to So the absence of doing bad
doesn't mean that you're good. It just means you're not
doing those things. For first Secondly, there's other parts of
that good that are more important, and those are the
(04:55):
reasons for the laws or the reasons for what you're
doing that is called good. So in the process of
a law, there's the law. And I always use this
example because people remember it simply is the speed limit. Okay,
it's fifty five sixty five miles per hour on the highways,
So that's the law, and you could say I'm driving
(05:15):
fifty five sixty five. But the spirit of the law
is what's important, and that is that driving in a
safe manner keeps people from dying or getting hurt. So
people's people not getting hurt is more important than the law,
because that's what the law is all about. So it's
not why you're good or that you're being good, it's
why you're good. It's important. So if you're good just
(05:37):
because well culture says to do it this way, that's
not really necessarily good because some cultures can be wrong.
If it's because God says to do it this way,
and God is the creator or the author of all creation,
well then you need to know more about God to
understand the purpose of what you're doing and why it's good.
(05:58):
So that's why I say it's not about being good,
because like the marriage analogy, you can have a bad
marriage and not be sleeping around with other people. However,
you can't have a good marriage and be sleeping around
with people the old you know, uh, what they call
an informal logical fallacy. All police carry guns, but not
everybody that carries a gun is a police. So in
(06:20):
this particular sense, yes, all people who are living a
life for God should be doing good things, but not
everybody who is doing good things is living a life
for God. So that that's what I want you to
think about, d because you called, and so I want
to I want to impart you with something because you're
the one brave enough to call and they're not here
to defend themselves. However, do I condone condone people Bible
(06:44):
thumping and cramming their faith down in your throat? Absolutely
positively not. And if you told me you were an happy,
happy atheist and you didn't want that. I think you
absolutely should have the right to be such.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Well, what should I do then? Do you feel that
I should be bridging the gap to reconnect with them,
because that's what I should be doing, even though when
they talk to me I feel that it's evil coming
at me.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Well, if you genuinely miss them, I think you can
call them and say, you know what, I genuinely miss you.
I miss I miss this. I miss when you tell jokes.
I miss when we would bake together. I miss when
we would talk about books that we read that weren't
the Bible. I missed that when we talked about movies
we watch. I miss the person I grew up with.
And I just wanted you to know the reason why
(07:31):
I'm missing that, the reason why I've sacrificed that in
my life, because every time we get together it's about X,
Y and Z, and I can't build a relationship with that.
That's not a relationship builder. Do you think that I
sat around the fire with the twelve and only talked
about the Bible all the time. No, that's just not
the way things work. And in this particular case, the
(07:53):
best thing to do is to be very honest with
them and say, I know this may come across as hurtful,
and it's not that I'm not curious, and it's not
that I don't want to grow, but the way you're
doing it to me, it offends me and it makes
me not want to see you. And if you tell
me that that's the way it's going to be, then
I respect that and I'll go on my merry way.
(08:14):
But I do miss you and I do miss us
having normal interaction and you know those things, and just
explain that to them and if if they listen, they listen,
and hopefully, you know, God will plant that seed in
their heart will grow, and if they choose to reject it,
then you move on.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Okay, thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Well, thank you for calling D. Very brave of you
and I and I always like when when someone calls
who's uh, you know, maybe being mistreated by Christians or
the church or doesn't. The fact that you find this
to be a safe enough place uh to bring your
concerns really pleases me. And it doesn't mean that I'm
always going to agree with you. Doesn't mean that in
(08:58):
your eyes, I will will always treat you nicely. Some
people don't see tough love or a firm response as nice,
and I don't. I don't understand that. But the fact
that you called d pleases me, and that you're very
brave and stand your ground and truth will out on
both sides. Frank, Welcome to the Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Hi Jesus.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Frank.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Thank you for your show and I appreciate them, enjoy
especially all your analogies.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Oh, thank you.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Well, you know what they're like.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Yes, analogies are like I got another one for you, Frank,
what if there were no hypothetical questions.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Everyway? My question is something I have kind of a
problem with. I'm a believer in you, and I believe
you are who you've said you are. And I have
a hard time thinking that people of other religions, maybe
especially the Abrahamic religions, are not in fact praying to
(10:08):
the same God, the Father God, that I pray to.
And I wondered if there does God not here since
the sincere prayer and intention of people of other religions,
and I have a hard time believing these people are
not saved and go to heavens as many people sort
(10:33):
of taught.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Kind of an ugly thought. It seems awkward to think
that God, that God would work in that way, doesn't ith.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Yeah, I mean, just that's I mean, I have to
live with my head in my rationality things no matter
what I hear or what I you know, it's hard
to believe that. I mean, there's so many good, good people,
wonderful people, maybe people better than someone, some people who
(11:02):
are received or say they received Jesus CHRISTI as their savior. Okay,
this is difficult for me too to rationalize, you know.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Okay, so let's ask ourselves those questions and think about
the possible responses. And there's the sincerity, the human touch
on things and getting wrapped up in the humanity of
something is good. I mean, you're human. That's the purpose
of it is to think humanly about the way you
interact with the world and the way the world interacts
(11:35):
with you and to you. It's legitimate and fair to
have differing opinions and thoughts out there. However, if you're
a math teacher, you wouldn't allow that same premise. You
wouldn't say, well, whatever you think two plus two equals
is fine. If you were a chemist, you wouldn't do that.
A scientist. You wouldn't do that. A baker, you wouldn't
(11:56):
do that. Well, one cup, one tablespoon, and you know
they both have flower in it. No, the recipe comes
out completely different, as does the equation, as does the
chemical compound, as does all of these things. That's just
the way life works. In truth. The emotional aspect of
it is when you think, really, what comes down to
(12:18):
it is if you think that way, it's you're not
putting enough importance on the absolute nature of God. You're
making God kind of chameleon like. Well, God can look
the other way on this. Well, that's not up to Frank,
that's up to God. Right, So hold on tight. We
(12:40):
got to take a quick break, but I want you
to hang on, Frank, because I want to explain some
more things in just a moment as to why that's
different and why differing views may have problems, and where
that lands, and why that's not just an ugly part
of God. We've been taught talking with Frank. Frank, your
(13:01):
question essentially is, you know, does God respect all religions?
And I know you you mentioned the Abrahammick belief systems,
but ultimately it's very human to go you know what,
God should be fair and kind of give somebody a
(13:21):
pass here, give somebody a pass there. But if you
read through scripture, the whole problem lie lays in the
fact that everybody wanted to pass all the time, and
the people of Israel wanted to pass, and there was
always well, can't we just do this? Can't we just
do that? There has to be a right way. There
has to be otherwise you can't. If there's no right way,
(13:44):
then you can't do anything wrong. And if you can't
do anything wrong that there's no morality. There's no otness,
there's no ethos, there's no mora's, there's no there's none
of that because there's no implied should do or implied
should not do?
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Right.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
You kind of need that in life.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
No, I think I do. But I think there are
people and other religions who are extremely moral and have,
you know, very even strict moral codes, and are very
good people, and they're not contrary to even the ways
I act like a good Christian.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Okay, should be, Let's take it off of good person
because person is so ambiguous. It's really well, that means
you don't murder. Let's take it off that and say
a good soldier. Now, if you said somebody was being
a good soldier, that would imply specific understandings, and no
longer you get out of the ambiguity of oh, well,
(14:45):
they're a good person, because nobody wants to judge what
a good person is. That's where the problem lies. That's
where your humanity comes in. Frank you don't want to
judge another person for being human. But God can. And
so if I say soldier, if I put one modifier,
or a good cook or a good chef and all
those those those things could be subjective. If you say
(15:08):
good baker, not really subjective because bakery is more science
based in the fact that it's it's very measurement focused,
in chemistry focused. But if you go through these things
and you say, oh, they're good this or good that.
Once you add a modifier, you feel it's okay to
define whether they're good at it or not. They're a
good mechanic, they're a good driver. But when you say
(15:28):
good person is where you get, oh, I don't feel
I don't feel okay about defining that, but God can.
God can say it's you're not a good person because
you don't murder someone. There's more to it than that
God is the author of those rules to begin with,
so God can say when they're applied properly or not.
Now you get into the different faiths. Yes, it seems
(15:50):
very awkward and rude as a human being to go
there wrong. But you brought up the word sincere a
couple of times, and and you can be sincere and
be sincerely wrong. Yeah, And so that applies to many things,
including religion. And it's not about it's not about the belief.
(16:13):
It's about what you reject. And if you're rejecting God
on God's rules, God's wants, God's demands, then you're wrong.
So it's not about while Christians are better than Muslims,
or Muslims are better than Jews, it's not about that.
(16:34):
That's a human desire to want to say my club's
better than yours. You separate the club factor. It's not
about that. It's God saying this is how you get
in my house. Now, if that's like me saying that
it's weird that when you go to your house, Frank,
that people have to take their shoes off, that's like saying, well,
(16:54):
that's wrong, Why would no, it's Frank's house. If you
want your visitors take their shoes off, that's right in
your house. Correct, correct, Because whether it's you know, some
silly reason, maybe you've got white carpet. I've never understood
white people get white carpet and then nobody's allowed to
walk on it. But let's say you have white carpet, Frank,
and you don't want anybody walking with their soiled feet
(17:17):
on it. You say, you take your shoes off. That's
your rule. Now you may not feel comfortable telling everybody
that that's wrong, but when it comes to your house
and who gets in your house, that's okay. And I'm saying,
when it comes to my house, which is Heaven, there's
one way in. That's the understand who I am. That's important.
(17:40):
Now you people say, oh, so you could be a
murder and do whatever, and all you got to understand
is Jesus God. No, because if you understand that Jesus
is God, you're not going to be out murdering.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
So people of other religions who have indeed heard your
name and.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Know about you and reject it and.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Are in fact not safe, and that's that's the story
for them.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Well, let me put it to you this way if
if there's a grocery store at the end of main
street and you tell them there's a grocery store at
the end of main street and they reject that, will
they ever get to the grocery store at the end
of main street? Is? Why is that difficult? That is
not about It's that people keep wanting to put the
(18:27):
names in the faces of these religions so that it
pulls on your heartstrings. You go, these are people. Of course,
there are many cults out there, and I'm not talking
about the mainstream religion. I'm talking about many factions and
cults filled with good people, right, but they're horrible, horrible
belief systems that are damaging to those individuals. And that's like,
(18:49):
do you want a sincere doctor or do you want
an educated and a doctor who's efficient. I mean, well,
I really, really really thought I could do brain surgery.
I really believed it. I really believed it. That's not
what you want. And so it's not just about those things.
(19:10):
And I know it sounds nasty because now because people think, well,
now it's Frank saying that his religion's right. No truth
is truth is truth. When you say two plus two
equals four. That's not oh, Frank says his math is right. No,
that's two plus two equals four.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Okay, So here we have I believe, accept and believe
everything you're saying. And from the get go I believe
in you. Now, for me personally, I don't seem to
have any particular you know, impetus to go out and evangelize.
(19:46):
I feel that if people have heard your name and
God knows you're you're you're everywhere and in news and
in churches and schools and everywhere, I don't I don't
feel the need to go out and everybody I need
say listen, you know I'm a Christian and this is
(20:07):
this is it, and you should be and you you know.
So I don't know how to how to deal with that.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
You know, well, Frank, let me tell you something. You
drive up in a beautiful car. What's the first thing?
Another guy says, Hey, wow, that's beautiful. Where'd you get it?
How fast is it? Wants to know about it immediately.
If you lose weight, you come into work losing thirty pounds,
what's first thing? Someone says, Oh, my goodness, how'd you
do it? Someone who people know?
Speaker 4 (20:36):
Why your life?
Speaker 1 (20:37):
They exactly. And it doesn't mean that you shouldn't share it.
It means that sometimes I hound Christians for being so
darn lazy because they prefer to talk about it rather
than do it in a way that inspires other people
to ask questions. One Peter three fifteen says, to sanctify
Jesus's Lord in your heart, be ready to give a defense,
(20:57):
to give an answer to those who ask about the
hope that lies within you, with meekness and reverence. Now,
now that is such a beautiful synopsis of the whole thing. First,
it's about God. God's got to be first in your
life individually. Second, live in a way that people want
to ask you about who you are and why you
are the way you are, and be ready to give
(21:18):
them a legitimate answer when they ask, and always do
it in meekness and reverence. So being kind and respectful.
And when Christians we heard calls earlier would get people
that being mean spirited or saying well, this is the truth.
So I got to pound it. Could you imagine if
a teacher did that, the kid would reject it. Yeah,
(21:40):
So it's a matter of finding a balanced way, Frank,
to express these things. But I guarantee. People desire to
know truth. They do, everyone does. And if they see
you reacting to something truly, because remember it's not what
people say, it's not how they act, it's how they
react to something that really shows you the character of
who they are. And because they're taking off guard and
(22:01):
it's spurred the moment and they're reacting. And so when
they see you react painful things, or through things in
your life or whatever you're going through, and you react
a certain way, they want to know, how can you
How can you deal with that that way? Or such
great loss or pain? They will ask. You are a
(22:22):
walking marketing machine for your faith if you live it properly.
If you don't, then you've got to talk about it
like those like an infomercial. But wait, there's more, and
it's lcenes and dices and and everything else. And they
keep adding more information because they can't live live up
to it, and that demonstrative kind of execution of your
(22:45):
life they can't do. So they talk about it for
thirty minutes until somebody goes and buys it on the
on the at the phone number.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
And just what you're talking about now, I've been picturing
some friends of mine who I admire much for Christians,
you know, And that's exactly the picture. They're just great people,
the wonderful people. They don't come on strong about it,
(23:14):
you know, and their their lives are wonderful and I
admire them. And there that's it.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
There.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
They advertised me for you.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Yeah. No, nobody had to market uh my my birth.
There was no marketing. There was no Twitter. Nobody was
blogging about me when I was born, and people still
came from far away just to see the birth. There
was no There was no Bible. Yeah, yes, not not
in this form, absolutely so, so there's not. Everybody assumes
(23:46):
everything needs to be packaged and you put a spin
on it, but really, you don't need to market food
and water, you don't. People need to eat, they need
to drink. They will, they will seek it out. Animals
seek water, they know, they move their entire herd to
follow where the water goes. They will go. They will follow. Truth.
(24:09):
It's when you start to package it too much or
put a spin on it that you make people think, oh,
you know, what's the hook, what's the catch? And then
it becomes a problem. Frank, what a wonderful, wonderful call
and What an amazing and gentle spirit you have and
I'm happy to have talked with you. Joanna. Welcome to
(24:30):
the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
Good morning. I'm sorry, good hello, Jesus. I have a question.
As an Episcopalian, we just started, well about two months ago.
Our bishop added a Spanish Mass actually too, because we're growing.
It's growing so fast. We actually have people who sit
into vestry. I'm taking if those people come, I'm taking
(24:54):
my money and going elsewhere. What do I say and
what can I do? I mean, how can I.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Be loving those people? Are they referring to people that
speak Spanish?
Speaker 4 (25:06):
Speak Spanish? Yes, and hey, I go so that I
can improve my Spanish. It's a little rusty, so that's
why I go. And because he's so on fire for
the Lord that it's it's a blessing to go. So
what can I say to those who object?
Speaker 1 (25:25):
You get people who are who feel that the church
having services they have English services as well.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
Yeah, so we have three.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Okay, so this is just a few services that they're
doing as a as an outreach to the Hispanic community.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Because where I came from in San Jose, California, that's
where the biggest growth is our lady, while loub Parish
has over five thousand members.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Well, you know, it's it seems, uh, it seems a
little silly. But what do I say to somebody who's
who's has racial discomfort.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
Yeah, I guess that's the best way to put it.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Well, tip your hat and let them go their way.
You know what's funny is Joanna, They that you can
find churches that have electric instrument services and then they
have just organ services. There are some that have acoustic
services and they will tell you well, this is for
to try and get some of the younger people more interested,
(26:24):
or they have younger topics, or maybe a younger priest leading,
or a younger bishop leading, or someone who is the
pastor overseeing might be. You know, they have youth groups,
they have all kinds of different outreaches. And there are
many churches throughout the country that teach and preach in
different languages throughout the day, whether it be Korean or
(26:48):
what have you, or Spanish to super serve their community
because of the makeup of the community. That may offend some.
That may offend some, and it's their right to be offended. However,
really it's not a very loving attitude. If to go
into it saying, well, if they change the entire church service,
(27:11):
you know, all services to Spanish, well, then you get
up and you go to one that's English because it's
the church. Well, because the church is now saying that
we don't serve you English speakers, and and that I
could see would be upsetting. But even in radio, you
can find radio that is kind of Spanglish, kind of
half Spanish, half English. You can find English speaking radio,
(27:32):
you can find Spanish radio, you can find Korean radio.
You can find all kinds of different language radio in
the United States, as it pertains to a certain geographic area.
And although the language of the United States most certainly
is English, to the chagrin of some, that doesn't mean
that you can't super serve certain parts of your your community.
(27:56):
There are schools that teach primarily in French in the
United States. That's because that's the community that they're trying
to serve. So it's really based on a form of bigotry.
It's just somebody wanting to get upset. If it's really
infringing on you and it's no longer serving you at
the church, then get up and go but if not,
(28:18):
enjoy the English services and let other people enjoy it
in Spanish. Kf I AM six on demand
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