October 23, 2025 • 9 mins
Host of ‘How to Money’ Joel Larsgaard joins the Bill Handel Show to discuss extra rewards through credit cards, the more money you have the harder it is to manage, and AI entering the e-commerce space.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Joel Larsguard, host of How to Money Sunday's twelve to
two PM. His address is at how to Money Joel.
Good Morning, Joel, Morning Bill. Oh yeah, we got a
lot to cover today. Now. Credit cards to earn extra awards,
which I am a huge fan of. Should you actually
churn them? Should you take all the extras at the
(00:23):
beginning to get you on and then you cancel and
go to the next one? Does that make sense? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
So that is the practice known as churning, and it's
something that should you do it? It depends on a
number of factors. And I think we should probably start
off with the reality that most people don't handle credit cards. Well,
something like fifty to sixty percent of people have like
a recurring balance on their credit card every single month,
and I think a lot of people in that position
(00:52):
they sometimes think about, or they'll think about their rewards
that they're getting from their credit cards, where there's the
sign up bonus, the two percent cash back, the travel
awards from the spending they're doing, and maybe they minimize
the downside of that credit card and the twenty two
percent interest rate they're paying on the balance because they're
like it's Okay, I'm getting these other benefits, and the
truth is it's not even close to okay. Like if
you don't if you don't pay your balance off on
(01:14):
time and in full, credit cards just are not for you,
at least at this point in time. When we're talking
about churning. This is when people are saying they're trying
to game the system, and the credit card companies are
you know, their best customers are the ones who do
have those recurring balances, and the churners are saying, we're
not going to have a balance. In fact, what we're
(01:34):
going to do is exploit the system for all it's worth.
We're going to sign up for as many credit cards
as we humanly can that's humanly possible in order to
get all of those sign up bonuses, reap a ridiculous
number of points and you know, many hundreds of dollars
in sign up bonuses, and then we're just going to
sit back and uh and use those those sweet perks
(01:57):
that you've given us, and we're never going to carry balance.
And those are the customers that the credit card companies
really hate.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Let me ask, doesn't that destroy your credit if you
all of a sudden sign up for twelve cards.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
That's a good question, and that it is possible it
can harm your credit, especially in the short term if
you sign up for a bunch of cards in a
short period of time and you have all these new
lines of credit that don't have much history to them, Yes,
it can hurt your credit. But on the flip side
of it, people who are really smart about the churning
(02:30):
practice and they're kind of doing it methodically and over time,
ultimately many of them have really high credit scores because
what they have is a ton of available credit and
they're not using much of that credit, which is one
of the biggest metrics that the credit score the credit
bureau's factor in. So if you have twelve or fifteen
(02:50):
or twenty five credit cards with fifteen, twenty, thirty thousand
dollars credit limits and you're using essentially none of that
credit limit, it looks like your hand and credit incredibly
well to the credit bureaus. So yeah, maybe in the
short term it can be a credit ding, but ultimately,
for people who do it well, it can be a
credit boost.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Huh. And the credit card companies haven't been able to
figure that out. There are no algorithms that put all
that together.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah, so that you would think there is I would
say Chase is probably the best at cracking down on this,
but ultimately it's really hard for them to figure out
who are the churners and who's not And if they
cut some people off, well, was that person actually going
to eventually use that card? Well? And are cutting off
(03:36):
some of our potentially best clients and customers. Chase essentially
has a rule that's like the five and twenty four rule.
If you open up more than five credit cards in
a twenty four month period, they're going to deny you
for a credit card. And so that's kind of how
they've been able to crack down on it and say, like, man, whoever,
if you're one of those people who's opened up a
(03:57):
ton of new credit cards, we just don't want you
as a customer.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
You know, I use the Chase card and because it
has the best best points for travel and I pay
money for it. I have that the one the reserve
card that gives you a zillion points that I pay
money for the card itself. And for me, it's all
about upgrades, that's it. It's all about upgrades. Uh, it's
me sitting in business class because I've upgraded, and you know,
(04:23):
you sit in business class first, and people in coach
go past you, and as they go past me, I turn,
I look at the bed and I go, hey, I'm
sleeping to night. How about you?
Speaker 2 (04:34):
That? Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, they do all right. Now. The way it works
is Joel sends me the topics that we talk about,
and here's one that I looked at and I went, wow,
that's interesting. It's almost counterintuitive, and that is the more
money you have, the more money you have, Joel, that's
very deep, I must tell you. Is that what I
(04:58):
said in the email? I hope that's all I said. Okay,
what I was getting at, And what is I think
true for a lot of people, and this is kind
of counterintuitive, is that when you have more money, handling
that money becomes more complicated, and for a lot of people,
actually managing money becomes more difficult. It becomes harder because
(05:21):
the options increase, the complexity increases. And there is something
about having a dedicated goal paying off some credit card
debt and building up a little savings that I think
most people like. It's they're like finite simple goals. And
when the goals become more long term in nature and
(05:41):
more ambiguous in nature, I'm kind of saving for retirement,
or I'm trying to build up a stash for my
kids to pay for college. Like when those goals become bigger,
harder to define, and longer term, people actually their ability
to make progress can sometimes erode because they're not able
(06:04):
to stick with I guess some of the tools and
the methodology that got them there in the first place,
like tracking their spending and sticking to a budget and
kind of calculating things. Once their income goes up, oftentimes
it becomes a lot harder for them to kind of
stay in line. Yeah, And just by the way, I'm
a big fan of this because I have a wealth manager.
(06:26):
Now I've done that. For example, my kids five twenty
nine plan for college. I funded that the day my
kids were born is when I started that. And as
that money increased, I told, you know, I gave the
money to a professional to manage, and I said, I'll
make the money, I'll fund it. You figure out how
(06:47):
it's going to be invested and how we're going to
deal with it, because this is what you do. I don't,
and you know, as and there was a time where
I just barely made the point where I could have
used the money person, and I went and did it
because again, my job was to make the money, and
I do that, okay, and your job is to make
(07:08):
it happen, and I, well, I'm very, very conservative with
my money. But I just didn't want to take the time.
It takes time to actually figure out what a good
investment policy is.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
You're right, and it takes. And I don't think hiring
someone excuses your need to have some knowledge that you
can ask good questions. And I think the further along
you get in your financial life and the more goals
you've been able to achieve, the more likely it is
that you should hire someone to come alongside in particular
help you with some of those those bigger questions that
(07:41):
you have, but also some of that coaching, right, and
some of that kind of helping you stay in the
game and continue to make the smart moves so that
you don't feel like you're going it alone and you're
unable to do that. So I do think, yeah, as people,
more money sounds like it's going to be a good thing, right,
I've got more options at my disposal. But then sometimes
(08:02):
as individuals, especially if we're not well versed in personal finance.
We have so many options and we don't really know
which direction to go in. And I think that is
when a professional can be of a lot of help
in your life.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yeah, and a professional can also come up with a budget,
can do the analysis and do all of it, which
a lot of us are horrible at.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
And sometimes, again, like I said, with some of those
goals get really amorphous or long term. It's really easy
for us to be like, I'm doing great, I'm cruising
and we start to kind of round things off and
we're guestimating. And when you're rounding things off and you're
guestimating and you're not precise, that means that money's going
to flow through the cracks. And hey, guess what, You've
got more money and it can flow through the cracks.
But the if that money then does flow through the cracks,
(08:45):
you're not going to achieve those greater goals that you have.
And so, whether it's financial independence at an earlier age,
whether it is max in that five twenty nine account
for your kid's future, like you're just going to make
progress a lot more slowly than you otherwise would. And
it may make sense and that's where having somebody in
your corner could be the right move.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
All right, Joel. Thanks This Sunday twelve to two how
to money. You have a good one. Earn some money
and don't lose it, or whatever the hell you do,
will do. Thanks Bill, all right, take care,
Joel Larsguard, host of How to Money Sunday's twelve to
two PM. His address is at how to Money Joel.
Good Morning, Joel, Morning Bill. Oh yeah, we got a
lot to cover today. Now. Credit cards to earn extra awards,
which I am a huge fan of. Should you actually
churn them? Should you take all the extras at the
(00:23):
beginning to get you on and then you cancel and
go to the next one? Does that make sense? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
So that is the practice known as churning, and it's
something that should you do it? It depends on a
number of factors. And I think we should probably start
off with the reality that most people don't handle credit cards. Well,
something like fifty to sixty percent of people have like
a recurring balance on their credit card every single month,
and I think a lot of people in that position
(00:52):
they sometimes think about, or they'll think about their rewards
that they're getting from their credit cards, where there's the
sign up bonus, the two percent cash back, the travel
awards from the spending they're doing, and maybe they minimize
the downside of that credit card and the twenty two
percent interest rate they're paying on the balance because they're
like it's Okay, I'm getting these other benefits, and the
truth is it's not even close to okay. Like if
you don't if you don't pay your balance off on
(01:14):
time and in full, credit cards just are not for you,
at least at this point in time. When we're talking
about churning. This is when people are saying they're trying
to game the system, and the credit card companies are
you know, their best customers are the ones who do
have those recurring balances, and the churners are saying, we're
not going to have a balance. In fact, what we're
(01:34):
going to do is exploit the system for all it's worth.
We're going to sign up for as many credit cards
as we humanly can that's humanly possible in order to
get all of those sign up bonuses, reap a ridiculous
number of points and you know, many hundreds of dollars
in sign up bonuses, and then we're just going to
sit back and uh and use those those sweet perks
(01:57):
that you've given us, and we're never going to carry balance.
And those are the customers that the credit card companies
really hate.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Let me ask, doesn't that destroy your credit if you
all of a sudden sign up for twelve cards.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
That's a good question, and that it is possible it
can harm your credit, especially in the short term if
you sign up for a bunch of cards in a
short period of time and you have all these new
lines of credit that don't have much history to them, Yes,
it can hurt your credit. But on the flip side
of it, people who are really smart about the churning
(02:30):
practice and they're kind of doing it methodically and over time,
ultimately many of them have really high credit scores because
what they have is a ton of available credit and
they're not using much of that credit, which is one
of the biggest metrics that the credit score the credit
bureau's factor in. So if you have twelve or fifteen
(02:50):
or twenty five credit cards with fifteen, twenty, thirty thousand
dollars credit limits and you're using essentially none of that
credit limit, it looks like your hand and credit incredibly
well to the credit bureaus. So yeah, maybe in the
short term it can be a credit ding, but ultimately,
for people who do it well, it can be a
credit boost.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Huh. And the credit card companies haven't been able to
figure that out. There are no algorithms that put all
that together.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah, so that you would think there is I would
say Chase is probably the best at cracking down on this,
but ultimately it's really hard for them to figure out
who are the churners and who's not And if they
cut some people off, well, was that person actually going
to eventually use that card? Well? And are cutting off
(03:36):
some of our potentially best clients and customers. Chase essentially
has a rule that's like the five and twenty four rule.
If you open up more than five credit cards in
a twenty four month period, they're going to deny you
for a credit card. And so that's kind of how
they've been able to crack down on it and say, like, man, whoever,
if you're one of those people who's opened up a
(03:57):
ton of new credit cards, we just don't want you
as a customer.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
You know, I use the Chase card and because it
has the best best points for travel and I pay
money for it. I have that the one the reserve
card that gives you a zillion points that I pay
money for the card itself. And for me, it's all
about upgrades, that's it. It's all about upgrades. Uh, it's
me sitting in business class because I've upgraded, and you know,
(04:23):
you sit in business class first, and people in coach
go past you, and as they go past me, I turn,
I look at the bed and I go, hey, I'm
sleeping to night. How about you?
Speaker 2 (04:34):
That? Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, they do all right. Now. The way it works
is Joel sends me the topics that we talk about,
and here's one that I looked at and I went, wow,
that's interesting. It's almost counterintuitive, and that is the more
money you have, the more money you have, Joel, that's
very deep, I must tell you. Is that what I
(04:58):
said in the email? I hope that's all I said. Okay,
what I was getting at, And what is I think
true for a lot of people, and this is kind
of counterintuitive, is that when you have more money, handling
that money becomes more complicated, and for a lot of people,
actually managing money becomes more difficult. It becomes harder because
(05:21):
the options increase, the complexity increases. And there is something
about having a dedicated goal paying off some credit card
debt and building up a little savings that I think
most people like. It's they're like finite simple goals. And
when the goals become more long term in nature and
(05:41):
more ambiguous in nature, I'm kind of saving for retirement,
or I'm trying to build up a stash for my
kids to pay for college. Like when those goals become bigger,
harder to define, and longer term, people actually their ability
to make progress can sometimes erode because they're not able
(06:04):
to stick with I guess some of the tools and
the methodology that got them there in the first place,
like tracking their spending and sticking to a budget and
kind of calculating things. Once their income goes up, oftentimes
it becomes a lot harder for them to kind of
stay in line. Yeah, And just by the way, I'm
a big fan of this because I have a wealth manager.
(06:26):
Now I've done that. For example, my kids five twenty
nine plan for college. I funded that the day my
kids were born is when I started that. And as
that money increased, I told, you know, I gave the
money to a professional to manage, and I said, I'll
make the money, I'll fund it. You figure out how
(06:47):
it's going to be invested and how we're going to
deal with it, because this is what you do. I don't,
and you know, as and there was a time where
I just barely made the point where I could have
used the money person, and I went and did it
because again, my job was to make the money, and
I do that, okay, and your job is to make
(07:08):
it happen, and I, well, I'm very, very conservative with
my money. But I just didn't want to take the time.
It takes time to actually figure out what a good
investment policy is.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
You're right, and it takes. And I don't think hiring
someone excuses your need to have some knowledge that you
can ask good questions. And I think the further along
you get in your financial life and the more goals
you've been able to achieve, the more likely it is
that you should hire someone to come alongside in particular
help you with some of those those bigger questions that
(07:41):
you have, but also some of that coaching, right, and
some of that kind of helping you stay in the
game and continue to make the smart moves so that
you don't feel like you're going it alone and you're
unable to do that. So I do think, yeah, as people,
more money sounds like it's going to be a good thing, right,
I've got more options at my disposal. But then sometimes
(08:02):
as individuals, especially if we're not well versed in personal finance.
We have so many options and we don't really know
which direction to go in. And I think that is
when a professional can be of a lot of help
in your life.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yeah, and a professional can also come up with a budget,
can do the analysis and do all of it, which
a lot of us are horrible at.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
And sometimes, again, like I said, with some of those
goals get really amorphous or long term. It's really easy
for us to be like, I'm doing great, I'm cruising
and we start to kind of round things off and
we're guestimating. And when you're rounding things off and you're
guestimating and you're not precise, that means that money's going
to flow through the cracks. And hey, guess what, You've
got more money and it can flow through the cracks.
But the if that money then does flow through the cracks,
(08:45):
you're not going to achieve those greater goals that you have.
And so, whether it's financial independence at an earlier age,
whether it is max in that five twenty nine account
for your kid's future, like you're just going to make
progress a lot more slowly than you otherwise would. And
it may make sense and that's where having somebody in
your corner could be the right move.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
All right, Joel. Thanks This Sunday twelve to two how
to money. You have a good one. Earn some money
and don't lose it, or whatever the hell you do,
will do. Thanks Bill, all right, take care,
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