June 20, 2025 • 23 mins
ICYMI: Hour Three of ‘Later, with Mo’Kelly’ Presents – “The Sex Doctor Is In” w/ Sam Zia, MA LMFT (#106352), PhD Candidate, Human Sexuality delving into the topic of “Sex & Shame” … PLUS – An in-depth look at a new study that examines “the length of a vagina, and how to know if yours is short” - on KFI AM 640…Live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app & YouTube @MrMoKelly
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Later with Moe Kelly on Demand from k IF I
am six forty.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
SAMSI as sex Doc. He's a SAMs stops stop.
Speaker 4 (00:19):
He said.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Sex the sex so key. Later later with mo k
(00:47):
if I am six forty. We're live everywhere.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Just say everywhere, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, We're live everywhere and
also the iHeartRadio app. Sam the Sex Doctor is in
and he will see us now, Sam, you and I
have kind of bounced around this subject.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
In the sense of sex and shame.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
There's usually a moral weight or anchor or albatross which
has put around many of our next as far as
sex being free in our expression and not disappointing our
parents as it were, or you know, running a foul
of our religion and moral all that kind of stuff.
(01:27):
Where do you want to start with this?
Speaker 5 (01:28):
Well, I'm glad you brought religion up, as you know,
kind of a gateway into the shame discussion. Because I
was talking to a friend of mine. We both saw
a movie separately. It was the Phoenician Scheme just came out.
The Wes Anderson movie, a fun movie, entertaining movie. I
recommend it, not necessarily the best Wes Anderson movie, but
it's not bad. But he entire time couldn't stop talking
(01:52):
about Mia Thriepleton.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
I think that's how her name is pronounced.
Speaker 5 (01:56):
She played a really, really hot nun in the movie,
and she like wore makeup and everything. They actually made
a point that nuns aren't supposed to wear makeup, but
she had that indulgence, and he could not stop talking
about how hot she was, like how sexy that he
thought that that nun was in the movie the whole time.
And I think it was kind of inadvertently letting me
(02:18):
know what his kink was, the thing that he was into.
And it got me thinking, what about that is so hot?
What about that idea is so sexy?
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Now?
Speaker 4 (02:27):
I mean, obviously the taboo, the taboo of the nun
participating engaging in the taboo of participating engaging in sex
with a.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Nun, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 5 (02:38):
And also from the thing that made it also really
clear in my head that came out was the idea
of the amount of shame that they can throw at
you from the position and also the amount of discipline
that they can throw at you using God to guide
that ruler across your knuckles.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
That kind of thing.
Speaker 5 (02:56):
And I know there's people out there right now thinking
about that like getting a little getting a little turned
on by because it's for some people they have sexualized
their shame and everybody, all of us, and.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
One that sexualized their shame.
Speaker 5 (03:11):
Yeah, say, for example, they feel like some sense of
religious shame and then they develop a kink out of
that shame. So that my friend may have a kink
sexually towards nuns that just based off of that sense
of shame that they feel around them personally. Maybe they
were shamed by a nun in the past, told that
(03:32):
they were behaving like a bad boy and spanked or something,
and that's the birthplace of that kink, I guess for him. Now,
everybody develops kinks differently, and it's something that shame a
lot of time gets associated with it religiously and for
that specific you know that nun position, that's a very
(03:54):
dominant disciplinarian role.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Are you getting ready to get into like masochism? And
I'm knocking on the doorstep. I'll get to that. We'll
get to that.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
Now. A lot of times people will act out their
sense their sexual shame unconsciously, either if they're by themselves
and if they're you know, masturbating, and then there you know,
a lot of times after they climax, they get that
sense of regret or shame afterwards, and they've it's because
a lot of times they've been told that's not okay,
don't do that. So a lot of times it's associated
(04:26):
with parents telling us what's right and wrong, and a
lot of times it gets associated with God and it
kind of.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Gets blurred to you. If you do that too much,
your hair will start growing on your hand.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And it reminds me. I saw I
rewatched Kentucky Fried movie and there's a scene in that
that's greatly referenced that exact joke, and it was really funny.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
But that's the thing.
Speaker 5 (04:48):
There is socially a place for some sexual shame. Now
I'm very much I tried to do my best to
not shame people based off of their kinks, their sexuality,
anything like that, but there is some place for social shame,
especially when it comes to matters of consent, if you're
violating boundaries, harming others without their consent, especially miners. There
(05:10):
is a place for social saving of specific sexual act.
But other than stuff like that, if you're doing stuff
consensually with other people unless you want shame introduced to it.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
I'm not going to be someone to shame anybody, and
that's you, that's me.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
I always say you like what you like, and if
you're not breaking any laws, I'm I'm not going to judge.
And I say that sincerely because look, when I say
you like what you like, I like what I like. Mark,
I assume likes what he likes.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
I don't like anything.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
Taualla likes what he likes it, Stepan and so forth.
I don't think we're dealing with any virgens here. The
point I'm trying to make is we all like what
we like, and we probably would not want that under
a spotlight.
Speaker 5 (05:53):
Now, there are a lot of people who have other
ideas in their head that they want to be able
to communicate, say with their partner, and they have a
lot of shame about it, so they don't communicate those
desires with people. And really, when those moments happen, I
question how deep of a connection those people have if
they're so worried about being judged off of something that
(06:14):
they are into sexually.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
But let me just say this, just over the fullness
of my dating history. Sometimes you have a connection with
someone and you may not be on the same wavelength
as far as depths of your sexuality, but the other
parts of the relationship are so strong that's more important.
Speaker 5 (06:32):
Absolutely, And I like and I've been in those relationships
where they have had great solid ground for a lot
of good energy. We treat each other well, we coexist
well with each other. But the idea of sex or
having conversations about sex immediately led to a lot of tension, stress,
things that made it really hard to actually connect and
(06:53):
express desires and needs and stuff like that. So a
lot of times they I mean it, peple get kink shamed.
And that's what they're afraid of, is that they're going
to express this idea that they they're into and they
want to express it to their partner, but they're terrified
of what that response.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Is going to.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
I understand if Mark hypothetically were to express to the
long suffering one that he is quietly a furry yeah,
you know, that might be a cause for friction in
the relationship. He has this other side to him psypothetically. Ever,
see a show called The New Zoo review. Nice callback
(07:32):
have something you need to know about anyhow, Yes, yes,
we get that.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Boy.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
We got to stop right there because we got to
go to a commercial break. But on the other side,
where do you want to pick up exactly now? We
just talked about how sex gets acted out. A lot
of times shames get acted out sexually unconsciously. We're going
to talk about the stuff that you referred to. The
conscious ways that we act out are sexual shame BDSM
for example, Oh we going there tonight? Oh yeah, A
(07:59):
little bit or big bit. Kim I AM six forty
we live everybody I Heart Radio app.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
You're listening to Later with Moe Kelly on demand from
KFI AM six forty.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
KFI AM six forty is Later with Mo Kelly.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
We live on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, and the iHeartRadio app.
The Sam the Sex Doctor is still in with us
giving us some needed advice.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Sam.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
Before the break, we were talking about sex and shame,
some of the reasons why we have these hang ups
and how it may play out in our relationships. And
before the break you told us that we're going to
go into a darker place now if you will.
Speaker 5 (08:38):
Yeah, Well, we've been talking about unconscious acts of sexual
shame and acting them out. And a lot of times
that happens unconsciously. People aren't fully aware of it. Sometimes
people do it while they're dreaming. But for people that
are consciously aware of the connection between sex and shame
and they want to engage in acting out that sexual shame,
(08:59):
usually we associate those acts with BDSM. Now BDSM, I'm
sure everybody knows, is bondage, discipline, sadism, and masochism. Some
people will also call the the d n s and
that dom and sub Now there's a lot of misconceptions.
By the way, nuns that we were talking about in
the last segment, they are associated with the discipline aspect
(09:21):
of BDSMU.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
They have that real yeah and that every time.
Speaker 5 (09:27):
Seriously, I'd be to see a nun with a ruler
in her hands and I'm immediately thinking along those lines.
But misconceptions, I have no problem on myself. I'm an
open book when it comes to this stuff, and I
have no problem discussing it because really there's so much
about it without the actual act of it.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
We're not here, that's just the basics of it.
Speaker 5 (09:50):
But if you want to go deeper into the subject,
there's so much of it that it gets there's so
many misconceptions and misunderstandings that people have about it that
they end up rejecting things that they may end up
if they allowed themselves to engage in those things, maybe
important may become important parts of their lives. A lot
of people who are within the BDSM community look at
(10:12):
that as being a huge part of their lives. Not
all of their lives, but a big part of their lives.
And that community expanded exponentially when the Internet kicked in,
because before it was very much a niche thing and
people carried quite a bit of shame about that kind
of stuff, and especially because a lot of times the
only time you ever saw any reference to it was
(10:33):
whenever shame was being brought in in motion pictures or
in porn, where it was specifically doing that.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
Do I interpret this the right way when you say
the Internet changed all that is that because people then
found their community and found that they were less isolated.
Speaker 5 (10:48):
Less isolated, and that the things that fall under the
umbrella of BDSM were not as socially shameful as people were.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Making them out to be.
Speaker 5 (10:58):
Because I mean, it could be something as you know,
quote unquote vanilla as just you know, spanking. That's considered
part of BDSM, and it could. That's like one of
the more basic vanilla aspects of it. But when you
get to you know, the stuff that people tend to
associate it, like with things Yeah, autoerotic asphyxiation, things like that. Yeah,
(11:18):
say that five times fast. I can't and I'm not
even gonna try. I will say something I'm not allowed
to say on the radio. The dumb button is there
for a reason. Now, some of the misconceptions come around
the idea, for example, of who's in control when it
comes to domination and submission. Immediately on its face, you're
looking at domination, you're thinking power, and the person who's
(11:40):
the sub is the one who has no power.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
More often than not, that dynamic.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
It's not just a matter of control, it's power dynamics
that play between those two. The usually a lot of times,
what people don't understand about it is that the sub
is usually the one that has all.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Of the power.
Speaker 5 (11:57):
Explain that as best you can't. The act doesn't happen
without them saying. That's where safe words come into play. Absolutely,
But their second that they say no, that no has
to be respected. Whoever the other person is on the
other end of it is someone who probably has a
lot of experience living with them, working with them, to
(12:18):
communicating those sexual needs and desires with them so that
they can read them and communicate verbally and nonverbally, to
allow for the space for that, so that they can
go through something that otherwise would be considered assault.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
They're doing something that's consensual. It's not assault.
Speaker 5 (12:36):
This is something that they're both consenting to and for
the sub they are giving someone else control, but they
maintain the power.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
Talk to me about the psychological health benefits of having
this relationship and understanding which is fulfilling ostensibly for both parties.
Speaker 5 (12:56):
Yeah, I'm glad you brought up the mental health aspect
of it because I'm a trauma therapist on top of
being a sex doctor. I do a lot of mental
health work with the VA and survivors of sexual trauma,
and I actually one of them. I have a lot
of ideas for dissertation topics, and this is one that
I explored and got talked out of. Was the impact
(13:18):
of BDSM on people who have PTSD from combat.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Well, that's a lot it is.
Speaker 5 (13:25):
Now there have been research into PTSD survivors of sexual
trauma and BDSM, and what got explored there was the
level of like the loss of control that happens whenever
they had that personal violate, that boundary violated, and the
level of control that they regain in those moments.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
It's it heals.
Speaker 5 (13:45):
It has a healing quality to it because maybe for
the first time they're having their no respected when someone
is saying no, stop, someone is saying yes, ma'am, And
then they know how a good partner knows aftercare after
those moments. The thing that I tell people all the time,
couples within the BDSM community are the ones that have
(14:06):
the best communication patterns bar none. They have to the
survival physically and emotionally of both of them is completely
reliant on it.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
We had a very clinical discussion of topics which are
uncomfortable for many. Could I get you to stay around
for another segment, because we're just gonna go bargain basement,
real childish titillation when we come back. Yeah, And let
me just say it's size matters from the other end
of the spectrum.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
The inverse of size five matters. I guess that's all
I'll say for right now. If you're watching the YouTube, show.
You know what's coming up?
Speaker 4 (14:45):
I mean next on the show IM six forty on
live everywhere in the iHeartRadio app YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
You're listening to Later with Moe Kelly on demand from
KFI AM six forty.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
I AM six forty is Later with Mokelly. We're live
everywhere in the iHeartRadio appened.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Let me just tell you this.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
I'm watching the amount of viewers we have on our
YouTube channel. It has grown by like twenty five or so.
We get like anywhere between seventy and one hundred usually
consistent viewers. It grew like twenty twenty five and just
during the commercial break because they know this is a
there's a video component to the show and you can
(15:30):
see what the.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Next subject is gonna be.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
So I'm gonna try to be as adult about this
in a genuine way as possible. We've heard the term
that size matters, but it's usually in reference to a man,
and sometimes men can get caught up in the idea
of measuring up or not.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Did you know?
Speaker 4 (15:52):
And I can say confidently and honestly I did not
know this that it may not be up to the man.
In other words, it depends on how deep the pool is. True,
there's a study that says that the woman's secret garden,
(16:15):
I just call.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
It that the secret the secret gardens car the.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Secret garden can change its dimensions across a woman's lifetime
within a month, within various hormonal changes and sexual arousal.
For example, before puberty, the secret garden usually measures between
two point two inches and three point one inches in length.
(16:40):
During puberty it increases, but because also hormones may change
the lining. Now as a woman becomes older, it will
extend up to maybe four point nine inches. So depending
on that woman's setual partners, depending on who she's experiencing,
(17:04):
that man maybe perceived one way or another way, and
it has to do with the woman's changes, not the man.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
I don't know that.
Speaker 5 (17:15):
A lot of times, and usually men worry about their
size in relation to other men. Women there's I mean,
if there's a woman out there who's into larger men,
that's cool.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
That's their choice. They call them size queens, and good
for them. I'm okay with that.
Speaker 5 (17:33):
That's their choice and that they can pursue that in
their lives, no problem. And they're toys that can fulfill
their needs. Now, the thing is, there's so many guys
that obsess over their size, where for a lot of women,
really it's not necessarily how deep it all goes, because
most of the nerves sexually are in the first three inches. Like,
(17:53):
there's reason why people whenever they're showing you how to
do certain things to pleasure women with their fingers, it's
because it's not like people have gigantic hands. So it's
because they if you have to know how to operate
in there.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Okay, so let's be honest.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
In there is a scientific basis to motion of the ocean.
Speaker 5 (18:13):
There is some some people are in the enjoy having
something larger. Other people the idea of something larger is
something that's painful for them, so they want something.
Speaker 4 (18:24):
But going back to the story, it could be relative
to the physiology of the woman.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 5 (18:31):
And at the end of the day, it's all up
to what the whoever that sexual partner is into. If
that partner is into a larger member, it may the
the size of their secret garden, if you will, would
be irrelevant. It's a matter of what just makes them
(18:52):
happy and gives them pleasure. If something that really I
think the there's so much emphasis and weight put on
that not necessarily and obviously socially, but really individually.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
This goes back to what we were talking about earlier,
the same shame sex and shame yeah, where it could
be self induced for a.
Speaker 5 (19:12):
Man absolutely where they are comparing themselves sexually and like
as far as like their actual physical size and their
virility to what they see in porn and porn is
not sexual reality. Yeah, porn is specifically designed to cater
(19:33):
to sexual fantasy of men, of men, typically of men.
It's specifically focused on catering to the fantasies of men.
That doesn't necessarily mean women aren't getting anything out of it.
There are many women out there who are getting the
exact same sexual arousal out of watching pornography. Now, whether
(19:55):
you want pornography legal or not, that's another discussion and
I'm not going to have it. But the there's so
much shame based off of men judging themselves, off of
people who are getting paid to have fantasy sex. Fantasy
sex is I mean, first off, reality of sex is
(20:16):
way messier than the fantasy of sex. They don't show
the cleanup, but really, if we're comparing ourselves to guys
that spend their entire time basically working out in the
gym so that their bodies look one hundred percent in shape,
so that they can be this physical ideal of what
men should be, so that they can go and have
fantasy sex with the physical ideal of what a quote
(20:39):
unquote woman or whatever they are having sex with, or
whomever they are having sex within that scene is.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
They are all catering to fantasy.
Speaker 5 (20:47):
And if we are going to base ourselves and our
statures off of the fantasy versions of what we want,
we are going to always fall short.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
But don't we do that naturally? Because sex begins in
the mind. It has to do with our preconceived notions
about this, that, and the other.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Now, those notions can.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
Be shaped by our actual experiences, or it could be
shaped by the fantasy of media. I mean, because remember
you may not. We grew up at different times. Uh,
Mark and I are around the same age.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
For us. Growing up, there was like the Seers catalog.
I'm being actually serious.
Speaker 5 (21:27):
I'm not no, no, seriously, people would look in the
braw section and that would for me. My generation was
a scrambled playboy on yes.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
What you got? Yeah exactly ten?
Speaker 5 (21:41):
Yeah, So that's the thing is that, yeah, we all
work with well whatever we have, and a lot of
people will develop the sense of shame. Where you're saying
exactly right, Sex and sexuality really starts in the brain,
and if you are a lot of people look at
their size as their ability to give pleasure sexually to
someone else. And if you're gonna look at it from
(22:04):
your brain being the place where all sex and sexuality
really originates, and that's the biggest orogen ist zone. That's
also the place where you can educate yourself and learn
how you can pleasure other people in other ways. If
you're feeling inadequate in that way, I think.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
We all need to just go home and just have
it a moment alone with ourselves and think about life.
Speaker 5 (22:25):
Sam, I'd like to thank you for not using I'd
like to thank you for not using the borat term
wizard sleeve. See have done far worse, far worse if
this was after ten o'clock. One of my favorite activities
is coming up with like, and I do this in
LIKE presentations and classes so people can immediately lose the
(22:46):
sense of shame and reluctance to talk about the subject.
I have them give me whatever slang terms they can
to describe various body parts or acts, just so that
they can get the giggles out, so that they can
get a lot of that sense of shame out of
the mix, so that they can actually have a conversation
without getting without it getting hijacked by somebody like blushing.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Where's the fun without the shame? You just trying to
undermine all the good work.
Speaker 5 (23:14):
I wanted you to chime in with like, because I'm sure,
I mean, you carry yourself as someone burdened by a
mountain of sexual.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
It saves time. So do you charge by the hour
because I want to hear this session
Speaker 2 (23:32):
You're listening to Later with Moe Kelly on demand from
KFI AM six forty
You're listening to.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Later with Moe Kelly on Demand from k IF I
am six forty.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
SAMSI as sex Doc. He's a SAMs stops stop.
Speaker 4 (00:19):
He said.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Sex the sex so key. Later later with mo k
(00:47):
if I am six forty. We're live everywhere.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Just say everywhere, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, We're live everywhere and
also the iHeartRadio app. Sam the Sex Doctor is in
and he will see us now, Sam, you and I
have kind of bounced around this subject.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
In the sense of sex and shame.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
There's usually a moral weight or anchor or albatross which
has put around many of our next as far as
sex being free in our expression and not disappointing our
parents as it were, or you know, running a foul
of our religion and moral all that kind of stuff.
(01:27):
Where do you want to start with this?
Speaker 5 (01:28):
Well, I'm glad you brought religion up, as you know,
kind of a gateway into the shame discussion. Because I
was talking to a friend of mine. We both saw
a movie separately. It was the Phoenician Scheme just came out.
The Wes Anderson movie, a fun movie, entertaining movie. I
recommend it, not necessarily the best Wes Anderson movie, but
it's not bad. But he entire time couldn't stop talking
(01:52):
about Mia Thriepleton.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
I think that's how her name is pronounced.
Speaker 5 (01:56):
She played a really, really hot nun in the movie,
and she like wore makeup and everything. They actually made
a point that nuns aren't supposed to wear makeup, but
she had that indulgence, and he could not stop talking
about how hot she was, like how sexy that he
thought that that nun was in the movie the whole time.
And I think it was kind of inadvertently letting me
(02:18):
know what his kink was, the thing that he was into.
And it got me thinking, what about that is so hot?
What about that idea is so sexy?
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Now?
Speaker 4 (02:27):
I mean, obviously the taboo, the taboo of the nun
participating engaging in the taboo of participating engaging in sex
with a.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Nun, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 5 (02:38):
And also from the thing that made it also really
clear in my head that came out was the idea
of the amount of shame that they can throw at
you from the position and also the amount of discipline
that they can throw at you using God to guide
that ruler across your knuckles.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
That kind of thing.
Speaker 5 (02:56):
And I know there's people out there right now thinking
about that like getting a little getting a little turned
on by because it's for some people they have sexualized
their shame and everybody, all of us, and.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
One that sexualized their shame.
Speaker 5 (03:11):
Yeah, say, for example, they feel like some sense of
religious shame and then they develop a kink out of
that shame. So that my friend may have a kink
sexually towards nuns that just based off of that sense
of shame that they feel around them personally. Maybe they
were shamed by a nun in the past, told that
(03:32):
they were behaving like a bad boy and spanked or something,
and that's the birthplace of that kink, I guess for him. Now,
everybody develops kinks differently, and it's something that shame a
lot of time gets associated with it religiously and for
that specific you know that nun position, that's a very
(03:54):
dominant disciplinarian role.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Are you getting ready to get into like masochism? And
I'm knocking on the doorstep. I'll get to that. We'll
get to that.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
Now. A lot of times people will act out their
sense their sexual shame unconsciously, either if they're by themselves
and if they're you know, masturbating, and then there you know,
a lot of times after they climax, they get that
sense of regret or shame afterwards, and they've it's because
a lot of times they've been told that's not okay,
don't do that. So a lot of times it's associated
(04:26):
with parents telling us what's right and wrong, and a
lot of times it gets associated with God and it
kind of.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Gets blurred to you. If you do that too much,
your hair will start growing on your hand.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And it reminds me. I saw I
rewatched Kentucky Fried movie and there's a scene in that
that's greatly referenced that exact joke, and it was really funny.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
But that's the thing.
Speaker 5 (04:48):
There is socially a place for some sexual shame. Now
I'm very much I tried to do my best to
not shame people based off of their kinks, their sexuality,
anything like that, but there is some place for social shame,
especially when it comes to matters of consent, if you're
violating boundaries, harming others without their consent, especially miners. There
(05:10):
is a place for social saving of specific sexual act.
But other than stuff like that, if you're doing stuff
consensually with other people unless you want shame introduced to it.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
I'm not going to be someone to shame anybody, and
that's you, that's me.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
I always say you like what you like, and if
you're not breaking any laws, I'm I'm not going to judge.
And I say that sincerely because look, when I say
you like what you like, I like what I like. Mark,
I assume likes what he likes.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
I don't like anything.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
Taualla likes what he likes it, Stepan and so forth.
I don't think we're dealing with any virgens here. The
point I'm trying to make is we all like what
we like, and we probably would not want that under
a spotlight.
Speaker 5 (05:53):
Now, there are a lot of people who have other
ideas in their head that they want to be able
to communicate, say with their partner, and they have a
lot of shame about it, so they don't communicate those
desires with people. And really, when those moments happen, I
question how deep of a connection those people have if
they're so worried about being judged off of something that
(06:14):
they are into sexually.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
But let me just say this, just over the fullness
of my dating history. Sometimes you have a connection with
someone and you may not be on the same wavelength
as far as depths of your sexuality, but the other
parts of the relationship are so strong that's more important.
Speaker 5 (06:32):
Absolutely, And I like and I've been in those relationships
where they have had great solid ground for a lot
of good energy. We treat each other well, we coexist
well with each other. But the idea of sex or
having conversations about sex immediately led to a lot of tension, stress,
things that made it really hard to actually connect and
(06:53):
express desires and needs and stuff like that. So a
lot of times they I mean it, peple get kink shamed.
And that's what they're afraid of, is that they're going
to express this idea that they they're into and they
want to express it to their partner, but they're terrified
of what that response.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Is going to.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
I understand if Mark hypothetically were to express to the
long suffering one that he is quietly a furry yeah,
you know, that might be a cause for friction in
the relationship. He has this other side to him psypothetically. Ever,
see a show called The New Zoo review. Nice callback
(07:32):
have something you need to know about anyhow, Yes, yes,
we get that.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Boy.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
We got to stop right there because we got to
go to a commercial break. But on the other side,
where do you want to pick up exactly now? We
just talked about how sex gets acted out. A lot
of times shames get acted out sexually unconsciously. We're going
to talk about the stuff that you referred to. The
conscious ways that we act out are sexual shame BDSM
for example, Oh we going there tonight? Oh yeah, A
(07:59):
little bit or big bit. Kim I AM six forty
we live everybody I Heart Radio app.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
You're listening to Later with Moe Kelly on demand from
KFI AM six forty.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
KFI AM six forty is Later with Mo Kelly.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
We live on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, and the iHeartRadio app.
The Sam the Sex Doctor is still in with us
giving us some needed advice.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Sam.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
Before the break, we were talking about sex and shame,
some of the reasons why we have these hang ups
and how it may play out in our relationships. And
before the break you told us that we're going to
go into a darker place now if you will.
Speaker 5 (08:38):
Yeah, Well, we've been talking about unconscious acts of sexual
shame and acting them out. And a lot of times
that happens unconsciously. People aren't fully aware of it. Sometimes
people do it while they're dreaming. But for people that
are consciously aware of the connection between sex and shame
and they want to engage in acting out that sexual shame,
(08:59):
usually we associate those acts with BDSM. Now BDSM, I'm
sure everybody knows, is bondage, discipline, sadism, and masochism. Some
people will also call the the d n s and
that dom and sub Now there's a lot of misconceptions.
By the way, nuns that we were talking about in
the last segment, they are associated with the discipline aspect
(09:21):
of BDSMU.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
They have that real yeah and that every time.
Speaker 5 (09:27):
Seriously, I'd be to see a nun with a ruler
in her hands and I'm immediately thinking along those lines.
But misconceptions, I have no problem on myself. I'm an
open book when it comes to this stuff, and I
have no problem discussing it because really there's so much
about it without the actual act of it.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
We're not here, that's just the basics of it.
Speaker 5 (09:50):
But if you want to go deeper into the subject,
there's so much of it that it gets there's so
many misconceptions and misunderstandings that people have about it that
they end up rejecting things that they may end up
if they allowed themselves to engage in those things, maybe
important may become important parts of their lives. A lot
of people who are within the BDSM community look at
(10:12):
that as being a huge part of their lives. Not
all of their lives, but a big part of their lives.
And that community expanded exponentially when the Internet kicked in,
because before it was very much a niche thing and
people carried quite a bit of shame about that kind
of stuff, and especially because a lot of times the
only time you ever saw any reference to it was
(10:33):
whenever shame was being brought in in motion pictures or
in porn, where it was specifically doing that.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
Do I interpret this the right way when you say
the Internet changed all that is that because people then
found their community and found that they were less isolated.
Speaker 5 (10:48):
Less isolated, and that the things that fall under the
umbrella of BDSM were not as socially shameful as people were.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Making them out to be.
Speaker 5 (10:58):
Because I mean, it could be something as you know,
quote unquote vanilla as just you know, spanking. That's considered
part of BDSM, and it could. That's like one of
the more basic vanilla aspects of it. But when you
get to you know, the stuff that people tend to
associate it, like with things Yeah, autoerotic asphyxiation, things like that. Yeah,
(11:18):
say that five times fast. I can't and I'm not
even gonna try. I will say something I'm not allowed
to say on the radio. The dumb button is there
for a reason. Now, some of the misconceptions come around
the idea, for example, of who's in control when it
comes to domination and submission. Immediately on its face, you're
looking at domination, you're thinking power, and the person who's
(11:40):
the sub is the one who has no power.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
More often than not, that dynamic.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
It's not just a matter of control, it's power dynamics
that play between those two. The usually a lot of times,
what people don't understand about it is that the sub
is usually the one that has all.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Of the power.
Speaker 5 (11:57):
Explain that as best you can't. The act doesn't happen
without them saying. That's where safe words come into play. Absolutely,
But their second that they say no, that no has
to be respected. Whoever the other person is on the
other end of it is someone who probably has a
lot of experience living with them, working with them, to
(12:18):
communicating those sexual needs and desires with them so that
they can read them and communicate verbally and nonverbally, to
allow for the space for that, so that they can
go through something that otherwise would be considered assault.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
They're doing something that's consensual. It's not assault.
Speaker 5 (12:36):
This is something that they're both consenting to and for
the sub they are giving someone else control, but they
maintain the power.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
Talk to me about the psychological health benefits of having
this relationship and understanding which is fulfilling ostensibly for both parties.
Speaker 5 (12:56):
Yeah, I'm glad you brought up the mental health aspect
of it because I'm a trauma therapist on top of
being a sex doctor. I do a lot of mental
health work with the VA and survivors of sexual trauma,
and I actually one of them. I have a lot
of ideas for dissertation topics, and this is one that
I explored and got talked out of. Was the impact
(13:18):
of BDSM on people who have PTSD from combat.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Well, that's a lot it is.
Speaker 5 (13:25):
Now there have been research into PTSD survivors of sexual
trauma and BDSM, and what got explored there was the
level of like the loss of control that happens whenever
they had that personal violate, that boundary violated, and the
level of control that they regain in those moments.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
It's it heals.
Speaker 5 (13:45):
It has a healing quality to it because maybe for
the first time they're having their no respected when someone
is saying no, stop, someone is saying yes, ma'am, And
then they know how a good partner knows aftercare after
those moments. The thing that I tell people all the time,
couples within the BDSM community are the ones that have
(14:06):
the best communication patterns bar none. They have to the
survival physically and emotionally of both of them is completely
reliant on it.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
We had a very clinical discussion of topics which are
uncomfortable for many. Could I get you to stay around
for another segment, because we're just gonna go bargain basement,
real childish titillation when we come back. Yeah, And let
me just say it's size matters from the other end
of the spectrum.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
The inverse of size five matters. I guess that's all
I'll say for right now. If you're watching the YouTube, show.
You know what's coming up?
Speaker 4 (14:45):
I mean next on the show IM six forty on
live everywhere in the iHeartRadio app YouTube, Instagram, and Facebook.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
You're listening to Later with Moe Kelly on demand from
KFI AM six forty.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
I AM six forty is Later with Mokelly. We're live
everywhere in the iHeartRadio appened.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Let me just tell you this.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
I'm watching the amount of viewers we have on our
YouTube channel. It has grown by like twenty five or so.
We get like anywhere between seventy and one hundred usually
consistent viewers. It grew like twenty twenty five and just
during the commercial break because they know this is a
there's a video component to the show and you can
(15:30):
see what the.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Next subject is gonna be.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
So I'm gonna try to be as adult about this
in a genuine way as possible. We've heard the term
that size matters, but it's usually in reference to a man,
and sometimes men can get caught up in the idea
of measuring up or not.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Did you know?
Speaker 4 (15:52):
And I can say confidently and honestly I did not
know this that it may not be up to the man.
In other words, it depends on how deep the pool is. True,
there's a study that says that the woman's secret garden,
(16:15):
I just call.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
It that the secret the secret gardens car the.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Secret garden can change its dimensions across a woman's lifetime
within a month, within various hormonal changes and sexual arousal.
For example, before puberty, the secret garden usually measures between
two point two inches and three point one inches in length.
(16:40):
During puberty it increases, but because also hormones may change
the lining. Now as a woman becomes older, it will
extend up to maybe four point nine inches. So depending
on that woman's setual partners, depending on who she's experiencing,
(17:04):
that man maybe perceived one way or another way, and
it has to do with the woman's changes, not the man.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
I don't know that.
Speaker 5 (17:15):
A lot of times, and usually men worry about their
size in relation to other men. Women there's I mean,
if there's a woman out there who's into larger men,
that's cool.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
That's their choice. They call them size queens, and good
for them. I'm okay with that.
Speaker 5 (17:33):
That's their choice and that they can pursue that in
their lives, no problem. And they're toys that can fulfill
their needs. Now, the thing is, there's so many guys
that obsess over their size, where for a lot of women,
really it's not necessarily how deep it all goes, because
most of the nerves sexually are in the first three inches. Like,
(17:53):
there's reason why people whenever they're showing you how to
do certain things to pleasure women with their fingers, it's
because it's not like people have gigantic hands. So it's
because they if you have to know how to operate
in there.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Okay, so let's be honest.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
In there is a scientific basis to motion of the ocean.
Speaker 5 (18:13):
There is some some people are in the enjoy having
something larger. Other people the idea of something larger is
something that's painful for them, so they want something.
Speaker 4 (18:24):
But going back to the story, it could be relative
to the physiology of the woman.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 5 (18:31):
And at the end of the day, it's all up
to what the whoever that sexual partner is into. If
that partner is into a larger member, it may the
the size of their secret garden, if you will, would
be irrelevant. It's a matter of what just makes them
(18:52):
happy and gives them pleasure. If something that really I
think the there's so much emphasis and weight put on
that not necessarily and obviously socially, but really individually.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
This goes back to what we were talking about earlier,
the same shame sex and shame yeah, where it could
be self induced for a.
Speaker 5 (19:12):
Man absolutely where they are comparing themselves sexually and like
as far as like their actual physical size and their
virility to what they see in porn and porn is
not sexual reality. Yeah, porn is specifically designed to cater
(19:33):
to sexual fantasy of men, of men, typically of men.
It's specifically focused on catering to the fantasies of men.
That doesn't necessarily mean women aren't getting anything out of it.
There are many women out there who are getting the
exact same sexual arousal out of watching pornography. Now, whether
(19:55):
you want pornography legal or not, that's another discussion and
I'm not going to have it. But the there's so
much shame based off of men judging themselves, off of
people who are getting paid to have fantasy sex. Fantasy
sex is I mean, first off, reality of sex is
(20:16):
way messier than the fantasy of sex. They don't show
the cleanup, but really, if we're comparing ourselves to guys
that spend their entire time basically working out in the
gym so that their bodies look one hundred percent in shape,
so that they can be this physical ideal of what
men should be, so that they can go and have
fantasy sex with the physical ideal of what a quote
(20:39):
unquote woman or whatever they are having sex with, or
whomever they are having sex within that scene is.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
They are all catering to fantasy.
Speaker 5 (20:47):
And if we are going to base ourselves and our
statures off of the fantasy versions of what we want,
we are going to always fall short.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
But don't we do that naturally? Because sex begins in
the mind. It has to do with our preconceived notions
about this, that, and the other.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Now, those notions can.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
Be shaped by our actual experiences, or it could be
shaped by the fantasy of media. I mean, because remember
you may not. We grew up at different times. Uh,
Mark and I are around the same age.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
For us. Growing up, there was like the Seers catalog.
I'm being actually serious.
Speaker 5 (21:27):
I'm not no, no, seriously, people would look in the
braw section and that would for me. My generation was
a scrambled playboy on yes.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
What you got? Yeah exactly ten?
Speaker 5 (21:41):
Yeah, So that's the thing is that, yeah, we all
work with well whatever we have, and a lot of
people will develop the sense of shame. Where you're saying
exactly right, Sex and sexuality really starts in the brain,
and if you are a lot of people look at
their size as their ability to give pleasure sexually to
someone else. And if you're gonna look at it from
(22:04):
your brain being the place where all sex and sexuality
really originates, and that's the biggest orogen ist zone. That's
also the place where you can educate yourself and learn
how you can pleasure other people in other ways. If
you're feeling inadequate in that way, I think.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
We all need to just go home and just have
it a moment alone with ourselves and think about life.
Speaker 5 (22:25):
Sam, I'd like to thank you for not using I'd
like to thank you for not using the borat term
wizard sleeve. See have done far worse, far worse if
this was after ten o'clock. One of my favorite activities
is coming up with like, and I do this in
LIKE presentations and classes so people can immediately lose the
(22:46):
sense of shame and reluctance to talk about the subject.
I have them give me whatever slang terms they can
to describe various body parts or acts, just so that
they can get the giggles out, so that they can
get a lot of that sense of shame out of
the mix, so that they can actually have a conversation
without getting without it getting hijacked by somebody like blushing.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Where's the fun without the shame? You just trying to
undermine all the good work.
Speaker 5 (23:14):
I wanted you to chime in with like, because I'm sure,
I mean, you carry yourself as someone burdened by a
mountain of sexual.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
It saves time. So do you charge by the hour
because I want to hear this session
Speaker 2 (23:32):
You're listening to Later with Moe Kelly on demand from
KFI AM six forty
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