July 11, 2025 • 18 mins
ICYMI: ‘Later, with Mo’Kelly’ Presents – “The Sex Doctor Is In” w/ Sam Zia, MA LMFT (#106352), PhD Candidate, Human Sexuality; delving into the debate between ‘Porn’ & ‘Rom Coms,’ and which destroys more relationships - on KFI AM 640…Live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app & YouTube @MrMoKelly
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to Later with Mo Kelly on demand from
kf I A M six forty sam Z sex Doc.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
He's a stop, He's a.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Doctor sex dot dot the Kelly ka.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Mo k if I am six forty alive everywhere in
the iHeartRadio app and also YouTube, Instagram and Facebook and
sam Z of the sex Doctors in And let me
just say right now, it's time to send the kids
out of the room. It's time to send the kids
out out of the room. We're going to have an
adult conversation about some adult things and it's not necessarily
age appropriate for folks who might be under the age
(01:09):
of eighteen. Yes, so we're going to have a serious conversation,
adult conversation about adult things. SAMSA, Where should we start
on this occasion. Well, I'm currently, as you know, I'm
doing my dissertation right now. I'm doing it on adult
film performers and mental health and workplace conditions and things
like that. And I was having a conversation with a
(01:31):
friend of mine about the impact of adult films porn
on relationships. And there's this running idea that I've been
hearing a lot that.
Speaker 5 (01:41):
You know, porn ruins relationships, and a lot of the
articles I've been reading that try to support that are
very different, like very concrete. It absolutely ruins relationships and
anything that. Anytime you see any kind of a study
that says absolutely this is the thing, it either has
to be one hundred percent absolutely the thing, or or
whatever that study is isn't an actual study. It's just
(02:03):
an article and someone's expressing an opinion and they're trying
to put it under the guise of actual research.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
There has long been a stigma to not only pornography
but also performers within the industry. Oh yeah, Now, from
where you sit, is it something that is becoming less
stigmatized or we're moving any other direction.
Speaker 5 (02:23):
I feel like there was a period there for a
while where it was becoming less stigmatized, including especially after
the pandemic, when a lot of not even performers, cam
models people were looking for money and they needed to
find someplace to make any kind of money out during
the pandemic, their jobs shut down or whatever, so they
turn to OnlyFans and then get six figures really quick.
(02:44):
It became more normalized there where I feel like now
I feel like the industry itself is slowly becoming more stigmatized,
just based off of a lot of the political policy
that might be surrounding the industry. Currently, there's legislation going
through Texas where they're trying to outlaw well not necessarily outlawed,
but make it so you have to sign in with
(03:06):
your driver's license on any adult site.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yeah. That's probably going to kill yeah the mood.
Speaker 5 (03:13):
Yeah, that's gonna make it a lot harder for people
to want to go from point A to point B.
But we had the conversation about it not only like
not just about adult films and porn and the impact
that it has on relationships, but the conversation turned to
what has the higher relationship body count porn or romantic comedy.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
As far as being the issue which breaks up a couple.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
Yeah, the things that make it so that relationships go
in because everybody, like, the first thing you hear as
a negative about porn within relationships is that it sets
unrealistic expectations about sex. And that is true to an
extent because it's sex and porn is catering to fantasy,
it's not catering to reality. So you know, on average
(03:58):
guys that you find in adult film are way bigger
than the average guy, and women aren't built like they
are in the adult film industry as they are in
real life. Real sex is a lot messier. Porn doesn't
show the cleanup. It caters to fantasy and not sexual realities.
And that's where for a lot of people growing up,
for like you know, younger people when who have access
(04:19):
to it on their phones endlessly comprehensive sex education is
something that's necessary to help people contextualize what they're seeing
in adult films.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
I asked you about whether it's being more or less
stigmatized because we have a generation now which is grown
up with Only Fans and I wonder if they see that.
And if you don't know, OnlyFans is a site where
you can sign up and put out your own subscription.
You can show your feet, you can show your ass,
(04:48):
you can show a lot of things. But it is
whatever you want to display. And people have become multimillionaires
almost overnight. But I don't know if people consider that porn.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Well.
Speaker 5 (04:58):
A lot of the people who who perform on webcams
do not view themselves as members of the adult film industry.
They view themselves as models, their cam models. If you
go to, say, the AVNS in Las Vegas. It's a
you know, the adult film convention that they have where
they have the big award show. There's boots specifically set
(05:19):
up for the cam models, and the performers themselves have
their own boots lined up whenever they're hanging out together.
As far as I saw in the experience that I
had there, cam models hung out in their own little
area with each other because they were familiar with each other,
and people who were porn stars contract talent were hanging
out with each other. But they still like they're in
the same vicinity with each other. They'll have drinks together
(05:41):
and things like that. Now it has changed for the
adult film industry because there are moral laws seemingly you know,
on the horizon that are aimed to regulate the adult
film industry. So we'll take a look at that as
it evolves. But the idea of what has the higher
body count rom coms porny, I honestly think that rom
(06:03):
coms have a higher relationship body count because rom com
set an unrealistic example and standards around relationships sex I
unrealistic standards around sex are way easier to undo than
unrealistic standards about relationship.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
You're saying Sleepless in Seattle has probably bodied some relationships.
Speaker 5 (06:22):
I'd say yeah, because let's look at safe Sleepless in Seattle.
For example, that was a movie where a woman heard
a guy talking on the radio about his wife that
he lost and he's a good dad and he's a
great guy, and every woman was sending the radio station
that he was on all the letters like oh my god,
this is the one most wonderful guy I've ever heard,
and everything like that, and one woman, Meg Ryan, is like,
(06:45):
I really like this guy.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
He's amazing.
Speaker 5 (06:47):
And then he she finds him and like goes out
of her way to try to establish a relationship, and
you know, it's.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
More, it's yeah, exactly.
Speaker 5 (06:55):
That's the thing, is like when you see all these
steps and there's a lot of those movies where it's
guys who are like, if I only do enough and
if I only like show up enough, and if I
don't give up, I can win her over.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
In the real world, that's called stocking. I can't put
it any other way.
Speaker 5 (07:11):
So if a girl, you know, if a girl tells
you no, then in real life you need to take
the l move on to someone who's a better fit
than that. And it also it's part of a system
that keeps people in bad relationships because there's so many
rom coms and so many drama films that are out
there where people are like, I have to struggle and
I have to endure because that's what love and relationships
(07:32):
are about.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
They start to identify the idea of love with.
Speaker 5 (07:36):
The feeling of struggle, where a lot where if you're
struggling that hard, then maybe that's not the right fit.
So romantic comedies, it's way easier to undo the unrealistic
expectations that are around sex that come from porn than
it is to undo the unrealistic expectations that go around
relationships from rom coms.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
All right, let me push back on that.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
I could say, well, but with porn, there's usually a
disconnect because it's probably not both partners in a relationship
who are viewing it or see quote unquote entertainment value
in it, and that is part of the reason why
it may unravel a relationship.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Yeah, as opposed to a.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
Rom com, where you're most likely we've all seen sleeping
since Seattle.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
We may have even.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
Watched it with our spouse or or our girlfriend, boyfriend, whomever.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
Well, and it leads to the next question that I
had listed here. Is porn allowed in relationships? Is it cheating?
And that it goes exactly to what you're saying. If
it's one person who's hiding this and they're not communicating
desires or needs sexually very well with each other, then
one person within the couple maybe using porn and maybe
you know, in consuming it and doing whatever they want
(08:50):
to do while consuming it and hiding whatever their behaviors are,
and the consumption of the porn from their partner. Now
that's where that feeling of cheating and feeling of like
you're hiding something from me comes about.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
And really, at the end of it, porn.
Speaker 5 (09:06):
I've seen relationships where porn is something that's off limits.
They can't talk that like they've communicated the boundaries around it.
If you have good communication skills with each other, if
that's something that you feel is not part of the relationship,
you guys, communicate the boundaries around it, you're fine. The
people who communicate boundaries really well around it are the
(09:26):
couples that tend to are more likely to engage and
share watching it. With each other as a form of inspiration.
They draw not like inspiration, but they draw like an
idea of what they can engage with with each other.
And they're more willing to express their feelings, sexual desires,
the things that they want to get into without the
sense of shame that comes with it.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
Sam the Sex Doctor is in and he has more
for us in just a moment. Is Later with mo
Kelly caf I AM It's forty life everywhere in the
iHeartRadio app. We're live on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, just about everywhere, Carnacian.
When we're getting on TikTok so yes okay, so I
know you're working on it. That's coming next.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
You're listening to Later with mo Kelly on demand from
KFI AM six forty.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Six forty is Later with mo Kelly.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
It's part two of Sex Doctors in Sam zeas we
talk about some more complicated aspects of relationships and also.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
The intricacies of how we maneuver our way through them.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Sam, we had started off talking about porn and relationships,
and then it turned into a conversation about rom comms,
which says to me what we may think something is
and may not actually be that we may think of
rom comms as something that brings couples together because most
of the rom comms there are stories about man finds woman,
(10:55):
woman finds man, they live happily ever after. And you
were saying no, if you look at the data, that
actually does more harm for relationships as far as meeting
unrealistic expectations as opposed to porn.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Yeah, well, because you have to look at it.
Speaker 5 (11:11):
That does porn ruin relationships depending on the relationship, if
it's one where you have that hard boundary saying no
porn and somebody keeps doing it secretly behind the other
person's back, and that leads to feelings getting hurt, deception
and all of that stuff that can lead to the
end of the relationship. But usually that's where those feelings
come from, is if if one person is keeping secrets
(11:33):
from somebody else. But when those sexual fantasies, A lot
of times people will watch porn because they have a
specific fantasy that they like and they may not feel
comfortable having a conversation about it with their partner, or
they might be a specific thing that they'd like to try.
They're going to adult film to get some kind of
visual representation of that fantasy, and then they go and
(11:54):
they hide that fantasy along with the porn that they
just watched from their partner. If I'm that partner, I'm
gonna be pissed because you're not telling me what you're into.
You're not giving me an idea of like, yay, you
know what. You're not even giving me a chance to
see if this is something that I would be into
as well. And I'll give you a great example of that.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
There's a story.
Speaker 5 (12:15):
I was at a club for adults a few years ago,
and I tend to have fun conversations with people there.
I've never really engaged in any kind of activity or
anything at any of these clubs, but I love having
conversations with people, especially like if you people who tend
to go outside and they like if they're having cigarettes
or like they're smoking a vape or whatever. I'll go
(12:36):
outside and have conversations with people all the time because
there's so many boundaries that get brought down when you're
in a place where other people are actively engaging in
a lot of sexual behavior. So while I was at
one of these clubs, I was having a conversation with
this couple that showed up together, and their thing was
that they go to this club once a month and
they'll find whoever else that they want to play with individually,
(12:59):
not as a couple, do whatever they want, and at
the end of the night they reconvene and go home.
These two people went three years married together, not communicating
these needs or desires at all, but fantasizing about it
and being too ashamed to actually say anything about it.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
These are two professionals.
Speaker 5 (13:17):
These are two like high you know, lawyers at law firms,
and they had this desire individually, and they didn't communicate
about it for years, and then finally one person says,
you know, I'm kind of into this, and the other
person's like, oh my god, so am I.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
And that made their relationship instantly tighter.
Speaker 5 (13:37):
They had a deeper level of communication without a sense
of shame around stuff that is super duper secretive. That
they were holding onto it for years out of a
sense of fear that the other person would judge them
negatively if they communicated.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Okay, but that fear is not necessarily unwarranted. I'm quite sure.
If I scroll my memory, I can think of friends
and relationships as said, Hey, a guy friend mine said, Hey,
I went my wife and I told her that, you know,
I want to.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Do this or experiment with this, and receive the very
negative reaction. Yep.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
And and in some cases that forever changes the dynamic
of the relationship. I mean, I can understand why someone
would be reticent to share everything.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
You may love the person, but they you may not
know whether you can go there with them. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
Well, and if I mean think about it, if you're
opening yourself and making yourself up so vulnerable that you're
communicating something sexually that is super duper secretive, and you
get a lot of sexual arousal out of it, and
then you get shot down, like you get rejected and shamed.
Then immediately that feeling of arousal is it gets poisoned,
(14:46):
it gets tainted. You have a hard time really reaching
back for it because now it's like something you've got
it sense, Oh exactly. So a lot of people will
hold on to those secrets with their entire for their
entire lives, and they'll be with a partner for their
entire lif never communicating their actual desire.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
All right, let me ask you this, aren't there some
things I let me put it in know way.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
I happen to be of the opinion that some things
are meant to stay as a fantasy, not to be
acted out in reality.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (15:14):
Absolutely, there's a lot of things that should remain fantasy.
But communicating fantasy, I mean, if there I've worked with
couples where they were both interested in having a third
partner into the mix, but they were so afraid of
how each other would react that they didn't say anything
about it for years and then finally that like it
came out in a couple session. Yeah, we were totally
(15:35):
into this, and it's like, well, then you guys need
to start discussing boundaries about what you guys are both
willing to do and have become like part of that
scene with that person in that moment. Because another issue
that comes up with people who are trying to do
that is that they don't communicate the boundaries ahead of time,
and then that's where feelings get hurt, because then you know,
if somebody says, like, if somebody does something with a
(15:56):
third person that wasn't communicated and boundaries weren't established around that,
then a person can come out of that feeling more
likely like hey, I didn't think that was going to happen.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
I'm not happy about that.
Speaker 5 (16:07):
You got to communicate boundaries like the biggest and most
important thing within couples. I guess the theme, like the
overarching thing on all of this is communicate those desires
and needs you with your partner. And it's not just
the willingness to communicate, to say it, it's the willingness
to hear it and not shame the other person. Communication
is two way road. You need to be able to
(16:28):
actually listen and receive and not shame the other person
who's allowing themselves to be vulnerable with something they may
have been holding on to for decades decades?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
How do you unrep last questions like how do you
unravel some of this.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
Pent up shame feelings of taboo which may have permeated
your growth as a child into an adult. It could
be coming from religious and it could come from your parents,
could be both, coming from all sorts of avenues.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
How do you unravel that after a certain point in
your life?
Speaker 5 (17:04):
A lot of therapy, I mean, because really you have
to process a lot of where those feelings come from.
If you're doing it by yourself or with your friends,
your chances are you're probably just going to get stuff
that confirms whatever bias you have about yourself. If you
feel like it's something that's immediately a shameful thing, and
you're not talking to somebody who's a neutral person that's
just going to give you, like the reflection back at
(17:26):
you without the judgment, then you're more likely if you're
just going to hold onto your idea by yourself, you're
more likely to take that to the worst possible place
where it's like, this is not a good thing, and
it's like, you know what, maybe you need to communicate
that with somebody who's a neutral party that can actually
hold up an honest mirror with you and not a
biased mirror. Not when where we're looking for our own faults,
(17:48):
we're actually looking at it from a place where it's like, okay,
let's get an understanding of where that feeling came from. Where,
like stuff that happened with childhood, stuff that happened throughout
the formative years, the little things like that that led
you to having that fantasy or having that kink, whatever.
Those things are doing it from a place without shame,
(18:09):
and it's hard for people to open up about it
because they have been shamed about those feelings Forever by
Society Sam to the Sex Doctor, you never disappoint Oh
thank you. KFI AM six forty we'relive everywhere the iHeartRadio
app
Speaker 1 (18:23):
You're listening to Later with Moe Kelly on demand from
KFI AM six forty
You're listening to Later with Mo Kelly on demand from
kf I A M six forty sam Z sex Doc.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
He's a stop, He's a.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Doctor sex dot dot the Kelly ka.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
Mo k if I am six forty alive everywhere in
the iHeartRadio app and also YouTube, Instagram and Facebook and
sam Z of the sex Doctors in And let me
just say right now, it's time to send the kids
out of the room. It's time to send the kids
out out of the room. We're going to have an
adult conversation about some adult things and it's not necessarily
age appropriate for folks who might be under the age
(01:09):
of eighteen. Yes, so we're going to have a serious conversation,
adult conversation about adult things. SAMSA, Where should we start
on this occasion. Well, I'm currently, as you know, I'm
doing my dissertation right now. I'm doing it on adult
film performers and mental health and workplace conditions and things
like that. And I was having a conversation with a
(01:31):
friend of mine about the impact of adult films porn
on relationships. And there's this running idea that I've been
hearing a lot that.
Speaker 5 (01:41):
You know, porn ruins relationships, and a lot of the
articles I've been reading that try to support that are
very different, like very concrete. It absolutely ruins relationships and
anything that. Anytime you see any kind of a study
that says absolutely this is the thing, it either has
to be one hundred percent absolutely the thing, or or
whatever that study is isn't an actual study. It's just
(02:03):
an article and someone's expressing an opinion and they're trying
to put it under the guise of actual research.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
There has long been a stigma to not only pornography
but also performers within the industry. Oh yeah, Now, from
where you sit, is it something that is becoming less
stigmatized or we're moving any other direction.
Speaker 5 (02:23):
I feel like there was a period there for a
while where it was becoming less stigmatized, including especially after
the pandemic, when a lot of not even performers, cam
models people were looking for money and they needed to
find someplace to make any kind of money out during
the pandemic, their jobs shut down or whatever, so they
turn to OnlyFans and then get six figures really quick.
(02:44):
It became more normalized there where I feel like now
I feel like the industry itself is slowly becoming more stigmatized,
just based off of a lot of the political policy
that might be surrounding the industry. Currently, there's legislation going
through Texas where they're trying to outlaw well not necessarily outlawed,
but make it so you have to sign in with
(03:06):
your driver's license on any adult site.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yeah. That's probably going to kill yeah the mood.
Speaker 5 (03:13):
Yeah, that's gonna make it a lot harder for people
to want to go from point A to point B.
But we had the conversation about it not only like
not just about adult films and porn and the impact
that it has on relationships, but the conversation turned to
what has the higher relationship body count porn or romantic comedy.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
As far as being the issue which breaks up a couple.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
Yeah, the things that make it so that relationships go
in because everybody, like, the first thing you hear as
a negative about porn within relationships is that it sets
unrealistic expectations about sex. And that is true to an
extent because it's sex and porn is catering to fantasy,
it's not catering to reality. So you know, on average
(03:58):
guys that you find in adult film are way bigger
than the average guy, and women aren't built like they
are in the adult film industry as they are in
real life. Real sex is a lot messier. Porn doesn't
show the cleanup. It caters to fantasy and not sexual realities.
And that's where for a lot of people growing up,
for like you know, younger people when who have access
(04:19):
to it on their phones endlessly comprehensive sex education is
something that's necessary to help people contextualize what they're seeing
in adult films.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
I asked you about whether it's being more or less
stigmatized because we have a generation now which is grown
up with Only Fans and I wonder if they see that.
And if you don't know, OnlyFans is a site where
you can sign up and put out your own subscription.
You can show your feet, you can show your ass,
(04:48):
you can show a lot of things. But it is
whatever you want to display. And people have become multimillionaires
almost overnight. But I don't know if people consider that porn.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Well.
Speaker 5 (04:58):
A lot of the people who who perform on webcams
do not view themselves as members of the adult film industry.
They view themselves as models, their cam models. If you
go to, say, the AVNS in Las Vegas. It's a
you know, the adult film convention that they have where
they have the big award show. There's boots specifically set
(05:19):
up for the cam models, and the performers themselves have
their own boots lined up whenever they're hanging out together.
As far as I saw in the experience that I
had there, cam models hung out in their own little
area with each other because they were familiar with each other,
and people who were porn stars contract talent were hanging
out with each other. But they still like they're in
the same vicinity with each other. They'll have drinks together
(05:41):
and things like that. Now it has changed for the
adult film industry because there are moral laws seemingly you know,
on the horizon that are aimed to regulate the adult
film industry. So we'll take a look at that as
it evolves. But the idea of what has the higher
body count rom coms porny, I honestly think that rom
(06:03):
coms have a higher relationship body count because rom com
set an unrealistic example and standards around relationships sex I
unrealistic standards around sex are way easier to undo than
unrealistic standards about relationship.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
You're saying Sleepless in Seattle has probably bodied some relationships.
Speaker 5 (06:22):
I'd say yeah, because let's look at safe Sleepless in Seattle.
For example, that was a movie where a woman heard
a guy talking on the radio about his wife that
he lost and he's a good dad and he's a
great guy, and every woman was sending the radio station
that he was on all the letters like oh my god,
this is the one most wonderful guy I've ever heard,
and everything like that, and one woman, Meg Ryan, is like,
(06:45):
I really like this guy.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
He's amazing.
Speaker 5 (06:47):
And then he she finds him and like goes out
of her way to try to establish a relationship, and
you know, it's.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
More, it's yeah, exactly.
Speaker 5 (06:55):
That's the thing, is like when you see all these
steps and there's a lot of those movies where it's
guys who are like, if I only do enough and
if I only like show up enough, and if I
don't give up, I can win her over.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
In the real world, that's called stocking. I can't put
it any other way.
Speaker 5 (07:11):
So if a girl, you know, if a girl tells
you no, then in real life you need to take
the l move on to someone who's a better fit
than that. And it also it's part of a system
that keeps people in bad relationships because there's so many
rom coms and so many drama films that are out
there where people are like, I have to struggle and
I have to endure because that's what love and relationships
(07:32):
are about.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
They start to identify the idea of love with.
Speaker 5 (07:36):
The feeling of struggle, where a lot where if you're
struggling that hard, then maybe that's not the right fit.
So romantic comedies, it's way easier to undo the unrealistic
expectations that are around sex that come from porn than
it is to undo the unrealistic expectations that go around
relationships from rom coms.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
All right, let me push back on that.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
I could say, well, but with porn, there's usually a
disconnect because it's probably not both partners in a relationship
who are viewing it or see quote unquote entertainment value
in it, and that is part of the reason why
it may unravel a relationship.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Yeah, as opposed to a.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
Rom com, where you're most likely we've all seen sleeping
since Seattle.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
We may have even.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
Watched it with our spouse or or our girlfriend, boyfriend, whomever.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
Well, and it leads to the next question that I
had listed here. Is porn allowed in relationships? Is it cheating?
And that it goes exactly to what you're saying. If
it's one person who's hiding this and they're not communicating
desires or needs sexually very well with each other, then
one person within the couple maybe using porn and maybe
you know, in consuming it and doing whatever they want
(08:50):
to do while consuming it and hiding whatever their behaviors are,
and the consumption of the porn from their partner. Now
that's where that feeling of cheating and feeling of like
you're hiding something from me comes about.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
And really, at the end of it, porn.
Speaker 5 (09:06):
I've seen relationships where porn is something that's off limits.
They can't talk that like they've communicated the boundaries around it.
If you have good communication skills with each other, if
that's something that you feel is not part of the relationship,
you guys, communicate the boundaries around it, you're fine. The
people who communicate boundaries really well around it are the
(09:26):
couples that tend to are more likely to engage and
share watching it. With each other as a form of inspiration.
They draw not like inspiration, but they draw like an
idea of what they can engage with with each other.
And they're more willing to express their feelings, sexual desires,
the things that they want to get into without the
sense of shame that comes with it.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
Sam the Sex Doctor is in and he has more
for us in just a moment. Is Later with mo
Kelly caf I AM It's forty life everywhere in the
iHeartRadio app. We're live on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, just about everywhere, Carnacian.
When we're getting on TikTok so yes okay, so I
know you're working on it. That's coming next.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
You're listening to Later with mo Kelly on demand from
KFI AM six forty.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Six forty is Later with mo Kelly.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
It's part two of Sex Doctors in Sam zeas we
talk about some more complicated aspects of relationships and also.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
The intricacies of how we maneuver our way through them.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Sam, we had started off talking about porn and relationships,
and then it turned into a conversation about rom comms,
which says to me what we may think something is
and may not actually be that we may think of
rom comms as something that brings couples together because most
of the rom comms there are stories about man finds woman,
(10:55):
woman finds man, they live happily ever after. And you
were saying no, if you look at the data, that
actually does more harm for relationships as far as meeting
unrealistic expectations as opposed to porn.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Yeah, well, because you have to look at it.
Speaker 5 (11:11):
That does porn ruin relationships depending on the relationship, if
it's one where you have that hard boundary saying no
porn and somebody keeps doing it secretly behind the other
person's back, and that leads to feelings getting hurt, deception
and all of that stuff that can lead to the
end of the relationship. But usually that's where those feelings
come from, is if if one person is keeping secrets
(11:33):
from somebody else. But when those sexual fantasies, A lot
of times people will watch porn because they have a
specific fantasy that they like and they may not feel
comfortable having a conversation about it with their partner, or
they might be a specific thing that they'd like to try.
They're going to adult film to get some kind of
visual representation of that fantasy, and then they go and
(11:54):
they hide that fantasy along with the porn that they
just watched from their partner. If I'm that partner, I'm
gonna be pissed because you're not telling me what you're into.
You're not giving me an idea of like, yay, you
know what. You're not even giving me a chance to
see if this is something that I would be into
as well. And I'll give you a great example of that.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
There's a story.
Speaker 5 (12:15):
I was at a club for adults a few years ago,
and I tend to have fun conversations with people there.
I've never really engaged in any kind of activity or
anything at any of these clubs, but I love having
conversations with people, especially like if you people who tend
to go outside and they like if they're having cigarettes
or like they're smoking a vape or whatever. I'll go
(12:36):
outside and have conversations with people all the time because
there's so many boundaries that get brought down when you're
in a place where other people are actively engaging in
a lot of sexual behavior. So while I was at
one of these clubs, I was having a conversation with
this couple that showed up together, and their thing was
that they go to this club once a month and
they'll find whoever else that they want to play with individually,
(12:59):
not as a couple, do whatever they want, and at
the end of the night they reconvene and go home.
These two people went three years married together, not communicating
these needs or desires at all, but fantasizing about it
and being too ashamed to actually say anything about it.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
These are two professionals.
Speaker 5 (13:17):
These are two like high you know, lawyers at law firms,
and they had this desire individually, and they didn't communicate
about it for years, and then finally one person says,
you know, I'm kind of into this, and the other
person's like, oh my god, so am I.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
And that made their relationship instantly tighter.
Speaker 5 (13:37):
They had a deeper level of communication without a sense
of shame around stuff that is super duper secretive. That
they were holding onto it for years out of a
sense of fear that the other person would judge them
negatively if they communicated.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Okay, but that fear is not necessarily unwarranted. I'm quite sure.
If I scroll my memory, I can think of friends
and relationships as said, Hey, a guy friend mine said, Hey,
I went my wife and I told her that, you know,
I want to.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Do this or experiment with this, and receive the very
negative reaction. Yep.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
And and in some cases that forever changes the dynamic
of the relationship. I mean, I can understand why someone
would be reticent to share everything.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
You may love the person, but they you may not
know whether you can go there with them. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
Well, and if I mean think about it, if you're
opening yourself and making yourself up so vulnerable that you're
communicating something sexually that is super duper secretive, and you
get a lot of sexual arousal out of it, and
then you get shot down, like you get rejected and shamed.
Then immediately that feeling of arousal is it gets poisoned,
(14:46):
it gets tainted. You have a hard time really reaching
back for it because now it's like something you've got
it sense, Oh exactly. So a lot of people will
hold on to those secrets with their entire for their
entire lives, and they'll be with a partner for their
entire lif never communicating their actual desire.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
All right, let me ask you this, aren't there some
things I let me put it in know way.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
I happen to be of the opinion that some things
are meant to stay as a fantasy, not to be
acted out in reality.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (15:14):
Absolutely, there's a lot of things that should remain fantasy.
But communicating fantasy, I mean, if there I've worked with
couples where they were both interested in having a third
partner into the mix, but they were so afraid of
how each other would react that they didn't say anything
about it for years and then finally that like it
came out in a couple session. Yeah, we were totally
(15:35):
into this, and it's like, well, then you guys need
to start discussing boundaries about what you guys are both
willing to do and have become like part of that
scene with that person in that moment. Because another issue
that comes up with people who are trying to do
that is that they don't communicate the boundaries ahead of time,
and then that's where feelings get hurt, because then you know,
if somebody says, like, if somebody does something with a
(15:56):
third person that wasn't communicated and boundaries weren't established around that,
then a person can come out of that feeling more
likely like hey, I didn't think that was going to happen.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
I'm not happy about that.
Speaker 5 (16:07):
You got to communicate boundaries like the biggest and most
important thing within couples. I guess the theme, like the
overarching thing on all of this is communicate those desires
and needs you with your partner. And it's not just
the willingness to communicate, to say it, it's the willingness
to hear it and not shame the other person. Communication
is two way road. You need to be able to
(16:28):
actually listen and receive and not shame the other person
who's allowing themselves to be vulnerable with something they may
have been holding on to for decades decades?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
How do you unrep last questions like how do you
unravel some of this.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
Pent up shame feelings of taboo which may have permeated
your growth as a child into an adult. It could
be coming from religious and it could come from your parents,
could be both, coming from all sorts of avenues.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
How do you unravel that after a certain point in
your life?
Speaker 5 (17:04):
A lot of therapy, I mean, because really you have
to process a lot of where those feelings come from.
If you're doing it by yourself or with your friends,
your chances are you're probably just going to get stuff
that confirms whatever bias you have about yourself. If you
feel like it's something that's immediately a shameful thing, and
you're not talking to somebody who's a neutral person that's
just going to give you, like the reflection back at
(17:26):
you without the judgment, then you're more likely if you're
just going to hold onto your idea by yourself, you're
more likely to take that to the worst possible place
where it's like, this is not a good thing, and
it's like, you know what, maybe you need to communicate
that with somebody who's a neutral party that can actually
hold up an honest mirror with you and not a
biased mirror. Not when where we're looking for our own faults,
(17:48):
we're actually looking at it from a place where it's like, okay,
let's get an understanding of where that feeling came from. Where,
like stuff that happened with childhood, stuff that happened throughout
the formative years, the little things like that that led
you to having that fantasy or having that kink, whatever.
Those things are doing it from a place without shame,
(18:09):
and it's hard for people to open up about it
because they have been shamed about those feelings Forever by
Society Sam to the Sex Doctor, you never disappoint Oh
thank you. KFI AM six forty we'relive everywhere the iHeartRadio
app
Speaker 1 (18:23):
You're listening to Later with Moe Kelly on demand from
KFI AM six forty
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