October 16, 2024 • 37 mins
ICYMI: Hour Two of ‘Later, with Mo’Kelly’ Presents – A look at the latest reports on the expansion of AI from the Los Angeles Rams implementation of AI to enhance fans “in-game experience,” AND the New York Times’ insisting that AI search engine Perplexity stop utilizing its content - on KFI AM 640…Live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to Later with Moe Kelly on demand from
KFI AM six forty.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
And I got some bad news for Tula Sharp. I
thought I had converted him. I thought I had won
him over. I thought I had turned him into a
cruiser for life. And then there are a couple of
stories which came out which may give him some hesitation.
One hundred and eighty people, maybe more, became sick from
(00:28):
salmonella on a Royal Caribbean cruise ship. That's important because
when Taula and I most recently went on a cruise
with a lot of friends and family, it was Royal
Caribbean Cruise Line, and Royal Caribbean is usually pretty good
about avoiding these things. What makes it worse is it
was on Radiance of the Seas, one of their premier
(00:51):
cruise ships. I've been on Radiance of the Sea, so
I'd know that ship particularly. And if you're wondering, like, well,
how many people are there, Well, they have more than
two thousand passengers. When you say two thousand passengers, they
probably have another two thousand crew members, so up to
four thousand people on the Radiance of the Sea ship.
(01:15):
One hundred and eighty people reported being ill along with
three crew members. And I say this as someone who's
been on a lot of cruises. They're not going to
tell you how many crew members got sick. They're not
that the one hundred and eighty that you know about
is because those are the one hundred and eighty people
who reported it, and they're willing to let that get out.
(01:38):
But the crew, they're not going to let them say
anything about their health status, not publicly, because well, let
me put it this way. If you've ever been on
a cruise ship, you know that the crew and the
passengers are all using the same stuff. You're encountering the
crew every single day. There is no feasible way that
(02:00):
one hundred and eighty passengers would get sick and only
three crew members. Think about that, the crew they're serving,
they're changing lit it in your rooms, they're cleaning the bathrooms.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
All that only three crew members got sick.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
But one hundred and eighty passengers who are coming in
direct contact with crew members and passengers all day long,
all night long. That's just a little bit behind the scenes.
And there's something else that I don't know if if
Twalla remembers this, but before he even got on the ship,
I said, Twalla, don't get on the elevators.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
If you can.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
And also when you use the stairs, do not use
the rails. The stairs are wide enough that they're each
you know, they're at the bow and stern of the ship,
and they're really wide, they're carpeted. You really don't need
to use the rails. It's not like you're going to fall.
They're not steep or anything. But don't put your.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Hands on the rails.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Why because everybody and their mama is putting their hands
on the rails.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
There are other subtleties. When you go to.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
What they call the wind jammer wind jammers the buffet
restaurant aboard Royal Caribbean. When you get like a cup
of water, you're not supposed to reuse that cup. You're
supposed to get a different cup each and every time.
And you will find that some people don't do that
and they'll share the cup with the family member or something.
(03:28):
And that's another way in which you'll have these outbreaks
on ships.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
But I got to ask you to Wali, were you
worried at any time?
Speaker 4 (03:35):
No, I was not worried at any time when we
went on the ship. Why Because I had a ship steward.
I had someone who was able to tell me, don't
you touch those rails when you're going to any of
those restaurants. You make sure you seventimee your hands, You
make sure you use utensils after you wipe them all.
I had hot water at the table. All of that.
(03:57):
I was not messing around. You would see people and
I would just look at them, like, look at your
sick ass. I'm staying away from you, staying away from
the pools all that, and in crowds, staying away from
being right tucked in with people. No, I'm going to
stay on the outside. I saw this story and I said, hmm,
they need to know, mo Kelly, that's what they needed.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
I wonder to alla, of these one hundred and eighty
people who reported being ill, how many of them got
into the pools of the jacuzzis. I really wonder, Oh yeah, oh,
how many of them were in the pools in the jacuzzie,
sharing drinks, not bathing before they got in, not even
bathing when they got out right, because you're okay, if
you don't know you're supposed to bathe, there's a sign.
(04:42):
Espelically you're supposed to bathe before you get in the
jacuzzi of the pool. There's even a shower there that
you can do it, you know, but nobody ever does.
And I've been on six cruises. I have never been
in a jacuzzi. I've never been in the pool once.
That is by choic, not by chance. That is a
conscious decision on my part to limit the likelihood of
(05:05):
contract contracting something in that environment. Now, as far as
the rails, I don't touch the rails, I don't go
on many of the elevators because it's in a small,
enclosed space. Mark Ronner will never get him on a ship.
But oh well no, Look, Mark can get on a
ship if he pays attention to your rules. And there's
another thing what we've got to make sure we let
(05:27):
him know. Do not use the public restrooms. Go back
to your room. Go back to your room to use
the restroom. Yeah, that's another thing. Yeah, it's almost like
a hotel where you will find restrooms on the various floors.
But no, no, because you have hundreds of people conceivably
(05:51):
going through those restrooms before they're cleaned on a given day,
as opposed to in your cabin.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Where it's just you and whoever guess you have.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
So there's some conscious decisions that you have to make
and you have to be aware of your behavior, and
you're far less likely to deal with something like this,
far less likely. But just know when they say that
only three crew members got sick, they're lying. You can't
have one hundred eighty passengers get sick and only three
crew members because one hundred eighty passengers are interacting.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
With the crew.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
You know, the crew is not using different facilities. They're
not going in other words, they're not using different dining halls.
You remember Twala, You would see people who are they're
off time, they're downtime with working the crew. They're in
the wind jammer just like we are, using the same
utensils and everything. So they're using the same facilities that
we are. Only three people. No, you know what disgusted
(06:48):
me when you walk into the wind jammer. On both
sides and in the middle they have sinks and they
have someone there saying washy, washy. They're they're singing it
encouraging you to wash your hands. You're not supposed to
go into the cafeteria with your hands unclean. Coming from
outside this.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
I would watch people go in there and I would
follow them to make sure I don't go to their side.
I immediately to the other side, like, don't go where
this filthy hand having individual is going.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Do not do that.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
They try to shame you into washing your hands, and
I didn't feel bad about it because I think it's
better for everyone. Yep, because they're looking at you and say, oh,
wash your hands. No, they're telling you to wash your hands.
And prior to COVID, those washed stations did not even exist,
so I know that that is a direct result of COVID.
Oh really, Oh yeah, yeah, it was just no, those
(07:42):
wash stations did not exist. And now Royal Cribbean they're
trying to force you to wash your hands. And still
people would like get their ass on their shoulders and
get indignant st and just walk straight through. Or they'll
say I already washed them, Look wash them again so
everyone can feel better. Yeah, because it's buffet style and
(08:03):
the windjammer. Now they have formal dining where people can
go in and have a sit down former like formal
restaurant style serving of a meal, but when you just
want to be able to get something to eat and
tallow and me. We're like, I'm hungry. I'm hungry now.
I want a couple of hamburgers. I want to be
able to go back two and three times whatever. The
windjammer is great for that. But there are a lot
(08:25):
of people in there, a lot of people.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Oh yeah, And I can see how people would absolutely
get salmonella, especially from uncleaned services, because I actually watch
some people go to just sit down at a table,
no tray, just having their food out on the table
on a napkin or something like that. I'm like, you
don't know who was at that table before you. Your
food is just on a napkin.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
I hear. Yeah gross. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Not everyone is clean, and unfortunately sometimes we suffer because
of it. But I'm still going on cruises. I still am.
Oh yeah, absolutely. That's the one danger that I'm going
to You know, it's not like jumping out of an
airplane with a parachute, but this is something I'll do.
It's kind of dangerous, but not real dangerous. Mark, are
you coming with us? I jump out of a plane first,
(09:16):
no contest. Well, there you have it.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
You're listening to Later with Moe Kelly on Demand from
KFI AM six forty.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
And you know, I am a died in the wool
Rams fan.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
The team's not doing great this season, it's not over,
but I live and die with my Rams.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
So when I saw this story, it's like, oh, this
is interesting.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
And if you're into stats like I am, like fantasy football,
or being able to enjoy a game in a different
way or an enhanced way, you might be interested in this.
Mark Bronner wouldn't, but a Rams fan, a true Rams fan, might.
The Rams announced, No, it's true, you're not a sports guy,
(10:01):
so you may not enjoy this.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
No. No, but I have other charming qualities. Yeah, but
none which would apply here. That's all, now, please proceed.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
The Rams announced the partnership with Genius Sports, which is
a data technology and broadcast company and it works in
conjunction with sports, betting and media industries. Now going forward,
at every Rams home game, fans can use the Genius
Sports data processing and AI tool, which they call Genius Iq,
(10:34):
to track everything from how fast a player is running
to how much time the quarterback has to throw. And
that's really really in the weeds, and you would have
to truly be a football fan to talk about time
before release or how fast running back may be running,
or a wide receiver yards after catch, all that kind
of stuff. But if you like the kind of stuff
(10:57):
and I do, this might be kind of cool. After
they are analyzed by AI in real time, the highlights
and stats will be displayed on Sofi's Infinity screen.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
And if you've ever been to SOFI Stadium, it's that.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Big halo ring, which is very similar to what they
just put in the end to it Dome in Inglewood.
It's this big halo's three sixty degree and it's both sides,
so there is media on both sides of this ring,
and it's viewable from anywhere in the stadium. And this
goes to what I've long said about live entertainment, especially
(11:35):
sports entertainment. Why am I going to go and see
something in person if I can have a more enjoyable
experience with more creature comforts at home. We're just talking
about fights at stadiums last night. Why am I going
to go to a stadium worry about a fight breaking
(11:57):
out around me or getting hit in the head with
a or something like that, or missing a play when
I can just stay home and watch NFL Red Zone
or watch the game from the comfort of my couch.
I have a refrigerator right next to me. I can
even pause the game. You can pause live sports, go
(12:20):
to the bathroom, come back, and pick up right where
you left off, and you don't have to miss anything.
That's part of the reason why you're seeing these types
of innovations in live entertainment, because there are so many
ways now to enjoy a game without physically being there.
I don't know if you've seen this, but there's this
new type of event center called cosm Cosm. If you
(12:45):
haven't seen it, you have to google it and look
it up because it's very hard to explain. But it's
an immersive, almost three D experience where you're on field level.
You feel like you're in the game or right next
to the game. It's it's really cool. They have one
in Inglewood as a matter of fact, a plan to
go in the near future where you can experience the
(13:06):
game and it's stadium style seating, but it's almost like
you're at the game. It's a huge half moon screen.
It's another way in which people can enjoy live sports.
They do college games, they do concerts, professional football, professional basketball,
what have you. But it's another way for people to
enjoy these live events without having to actually pay for
(13:30):
a ticket at the event venue. That's why you're seeing
all these types of innovations, inclusive of AI with the RAMS,
because they need to make it more attractive to RAMS
fans like me. I live ten minutes at most from
Sofi Stadium, but if I find a better offer like
(13:52):
staying home, I'm going to stay home because who wants
to deal with parking?
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Not me?
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Who wants to deal with the insanity of crazy fans
and the profanity and the fights.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Not me?
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Who wants to wait in line to get their food.
And it's a lot better now the lines are not
as long because of technology. You can just kind of
scan your food and go. The lines are not as
long in the bathroom anymore. But still it's never going
to be as convenient or as easy as just staying home.
I don't know about you, and I love RAMS football,
(14:26):
but it's not better than me sitting on my couch
even with this. But I understand the reasons why you
have to enhance this experience, And I don't know what
it would take to get someone else in Sofi Stadium.
But once you've gone, you know, that it's a commitment.
I'm not saying it's a chore, but it asks a
(14:46):
lot of you from getting in the stadium. I think
it's one hundred percent digital ticketing now, where you have
your ticket on your phone and you scan it like
a QR code and you get in the stadium. But
still it's a stadium, and it's not as comfortable as
what you have at home. And also, and I don't
think anyone on this show actually plays fantasy football with
(15:09):
the exception. To me, that is another pull away from
the end stadium experience. People are less now fans of
one team and more fans of players on their fantasy team.
They're either betting on the players they have them on
their fantasy team. They're more looking at the sport as
a whole, like the NFL Red Zone, where you'll watch
(15:31):
the scoring plays of all games across the league on
a given Sunday instead of watching one game between two
teams for three hours. These are the things that stadiums
have to somehow compete with and also overcome Genius sports.
Going back to the story, they've partnered with many other
(15:51):
sports leagues around the world to implement the same technology.
They've done this with English Premier League, NASCAR, the NC
two A and others, so you can tell that there
is a general consensus that more needs to be done
to bring people to the stadium. For example, Mark, you're
(16:11):
not a football fan, are you?
Speaker 3 (16:13):
Generally?
Speaker 1 (16:13):
No?
Speaker 3 (16:14):
But I take your point about being in the comfort
of your own home where you can sit and watch
a game in a neglige or a mumu or whatever
you wear and not have to worry. I just saw
some footage yesterday of a sports fan walking around punching
out people who are fans of the opposite team.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Who wants to deal with that, right, who wants to?
I saw it was a Baltimore Ravens fan. He punched
out two Washington Commanders fans just onsite. He just he
was looking for some and he wanted to beat them up.
But there's a happy ending to that story. They found
the guy, They fired the guy. He got fired from
his job, and the social media out at him. And
(16:50):
also he's their charge is pending against him. Just to
let you know, oh yeah, throw away the key. That's insane. Yeah,
over sports. But see that's another deterrent as far as
or disincentive to actually go now here's the correlation. We
talk about this all the time here on Later with
mo Kelly. It's not very different from the movie going experience.
(17:12):
Maybe fewer fights, but there's more reasons to stay home
than it is to brave the elements, waste the gas
and the time, and also not everyone wants to put
up with other people. You know, the communal experience oftentimes
is overrated. I can watch a football game at home
and be just fine. I don't need another seventy thousand
(17:33):
people around me to enjoy it. I can watch a
movie at home. I don't need another three hundred people
around me to enjoy it. And so movie theaters, you actually,
even coffee shops, you know, any type of place where
people are going to congregate. They have to reinvent themselves
in a way to get people like you and me
(17:53):
off our asses and actually come to that location for
hours at a time and spend money. That is no
small undertaking, because being home is pretty damn good. It's
fun more times than not. I don't have to shower,
I don't have to brush my teeth. Well, you buried
the lead there about the showering. I love the communal
(18:14):
experience of going to a movie. But I do believe,
and don't you as well, that people are starting to
act much worse than they ever have for some reason. Yes,
I believe it's it's still a function of COVID, where
we somehow not socializing for two years or so. It
seems like we lost all ability or inclination to act
(18:39):
like civilized individuals. If I could trace it back to anything,
I would say COVID and that period of isolation.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Well maybe this is where your citizenship classes had come
in handy.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Well, you know, look from your lips to God's ears.
You know they haven't put they haven't put civics back
in school. You know we don't. We don't reward good
citizens ship. And you know this.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Is what we get.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
We've for all the complaints we have about society.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
We didn't get here overnight.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
We've done a lot of things to earn what we
don't like about society.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Well, you are successfully turning me into a Moe Kelly
TM misanthropist. You hate people. No, never I ever, As always,
I'm just following your lead. Mo, It's later with Mo
Kelly CAF. I am six forty. We're live everywhere on
the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
And when we come back, I'm going to keep the
AI theme going. New York Times earlier this week has
warned an AI company called Perplexity to stop using its content.
Damn it, Mark Ramer was right again and I hate no.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
That's next.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
You're listening to Later with Moe Kelly on demand from
KFI AM six forty.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Caff I.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Mo' kelly here, We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.
And when I saw this next story, I immediately thought
of Mark Ronner, and I wanted to take my time
with this because this is also part of an ongoing
conversation the implementation of AI where it makes sense, where
it is I would say stealing to use Mark Ronner's word,
(20:26):
where it actually adds something to us as people or society,
or also in the creation of content. The New York
Times has demanded that the AI search engine startup company
Perplexity stop using content from the New York Times website
(20:46):
in a cease and desist letter sent to the company.
The New York Times presently is also suing open Ai
and Microsoft over allegedly illegally training its AI models using
the New York Times content, which goes back to what
Mark Roner says. It can't do anything, It can't create anything.
It needs established and already created content for it to
(21:11):
have any value.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Paraphrasing, but something to that effect.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Now, Perplexity and its business partners are fighting back against
The New York Times, and they're saying that nobody has
a copyright on facts. Nobody owns the copyright to facts.
They're trying to argue, the information which is taken from
The New York Times is just the facts, not the phrasing,
(21:39):
not the wording, not actual paragraphs which were used by writers,
but just the baseline information.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Mark, What do you have to say to that? Can
you feel how angry I'm getting? Just?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (21:56):
I know, Oh I know. That's why I did the story.
I mean. And I say this as a person who
has written stories and then watched as a TV news
anchor ripped them off word for a word, having my
stuff read to me on the air with no acknowledgment
of the source whatsoever. I think this is absolutely evil.
(22:17):
You can't copyright facts, Okay, then go do your own reporting.
That stuff doesn't just appear out of the ether on
its own to be plucked out like fruit from a tree. Yeah,
but can you prove it? Yes?
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Can you?
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Yeah? No? No, no, no, no, not you.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
I'm saying, I'm sorry, going back to New York Times,
Oh can they prove it? How do you mean exactly?
I want to make sure we're clear. Well, let's make
I'm making a delineation, a distinction between the facts. In
other words, the Dodgers lost to the Mets last night
six to three, excuse me, seven to three, as reported
in the New York Times. If perplexity uses that information
(22:59):
to inform their model that the Mets beat the Dodgers
seven to three, is that plagiarism. I'm playing both sides
of the argument because factually that's true. Stylistically, it's not
The New York Times.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Well, the event occurred regardless of who reported it, but
this AI swine wouldn't know about it apart from the
reporting that they read someplace.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Ah, okay, okay. So you're saying, look, without us, there
is no U period.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
I think that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Yes, yeah, and they're saying, but the you we're taking
from is public information, no different from me or you
reading the New York Times and saying, hey, Mark, did
you see the Dodgers lost to the New York Mets
last night seven to three.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Oh really, how'd you see that? I saw in New
York Times. Yeah. It's pretty funny, isn't it. How free
public information always seems to be the result of someone
else's leg work and effort.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
But it's not illegal for me to then reference that
in a write up or a radio show and not
even give attribution. Hey, the Dodgers loss last night seven
to three. I could have gotten it from ESPN, could
have gotten it from New York Times, could have gotten
it from Mark Ronner when he talked about it in
the KFI twenty four newsroom.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
I do, and I mean there's there are differences, and
they get finer and finer. The more you know, the
more granular you get into this discussion. But as a journalist,
we cite our sources. If something's common knowledge, you know,
like the Earth rotates around the sun and by the
way it does, if you were wondering about that, you
know other things don't know? Do your research? Yeah, do
(24:40):
your own research. Yeah, some things are common knowledge. Other
things you always cite your source. And if you're in
the AI business, you don't get the benefit of the doubt,
you better cite your source.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Yeah, but they're not journalists, and I'm still playing the
other side of the argument.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
They're not journalists, but they're using the product of journalism.
I don't like this term, but the work product of journalism.
I hate the word content too. But you know exactly
what I'm getting at with this. It's a catch all.
These are things that require the effort of humans with
experience judgment, who have actually put hours of their time
into it. For this information to be gleaned from another entity,
(25:21):
whether it's a human or an AI. Well, you're lucky
that I carved out time.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
We can go a second segment with this, because I
still want to push back on your belief that this
is plagiarism or stealing when they're taking the baseline information,
or at least that's the argument that Perplexity is making.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
It's noble of you to take their sight on this.
I appreciate that we can't agree all the time. Mark, No,
that's boring. It's just unhealthy too. Nobody wants to hear
us agree.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
You're listening to Later with Moe Kelly on Demand from
KFI AM six forty.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Mo Kelly, We're Live Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, and
we're going deep into the discussion of AI and when
it may cross the boundaries when we're talking about journalism specifically.
We all know that AI has potential to enrich our
lives in some way, or at least I believe that
(26:18):
we're not in agreement on where it should have a role,
if it should have a role in content creation when
it's connected to journalism. And last segment, I started talking
about how The New York Times has sent a cease
and desist to the company Perplexity, saying it has to
(26:38):
stop using the New York Times content from training its
AI model. This is what New York Times also had
to say, Perplexity and its business partners have been unjustly
enriched by using without authorization The Times expressive carefully written
and researched and edited journalism with out a license. The
(27:02):
New York Times also prohibits using its content for AI
model training. It disallows several AI crawlers, including Perplexities, in
its robots dot txt file that tell search engine crawlers
which URLs they can index.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Mark Ronner, there is no nuance for you.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Is that fair to say you're all the way on
the side of perplexity has no right to anything that
it may find via the New York Times.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Is that fair? Well, there's some nuance. I mean, I
read about something the other day about an AI that
could perform calculations in some medical issue that would have
taken a person weeks, months, years to do. That's a
perfectly valid good use for AI. But when you talk
about talking about assimilating information that other people have created
to pump out, crank out some ersatz garbage, Yeah, there's
(27:58):
not a lot of subtlety for me with that.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Okay, what about then you have someone like not someone
something like the Los Angeles Times, And I use this
example before it I think it bears mentioning again. They
have an earthquake bot which will put up a completed story.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Moments after an earthquake happens.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
It is a full story, you know, a four point
two earthquake which was centered at such and happened at
seven to fifty five PM.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
No, it's a full story. It's about maybe five or
six lines.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
I would argue that it's probably resourcing similar stories from
around the web, inclusive of the New York Times and
other places. Do you think that to be plagiarism when
the specifics and the facts would change from earthquake to earthquake.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Well, it seems to me like you could also extend
that to doing the weather. You can you can gather
data that isn't necessarily the work of a human being
sitting there pounding things out at a keyboard. And I
think one aspect of this that isn't really discussed as
much as it should be is that there's this kind
of pervasive sense to me that people think information is
(29:08):
and should be free. And this isn't stuff that just
drops out of heaven. It is the product of people
sitting there and doing work and bringing their experience to
the table. It's not something anybody could do. It's not
and I say this as somebody who's had so many
things stolen from me over the years. I had a
TV series stolen from me. It wasn't free. I put
(29:29):
many many hours and months of my time into that.
And like I said in the last segment, I've had
news stories that I've written red word for word on
the air on TV. Nobody mentioned where it came from.
We have to acknowledge that these things are the product
of people who do work, and that's not free. It's
no different than somebody who picks a vegetable or does welding.
(29:52):
For you, work is work if somebody does it.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
I'm really not disagreeing with you, and I know Twala
would agree with me when I say that there are
times where we've seen our work on this show being
used as the basis and evidence for stories which have
run in the La Times and other places, almost word
for word. Yet and I've called out the writer on
(30:20):
Twitter and other occasions saying like this, you did not
come up with this on your own. It's way too
damn specific, using the same terminology and phraseology that I did.
Maybe just didn't think that I was going to see it,
to which there was no response. So emotionally, I'm right
there with you. I've been a victim of it as well.
I'm just saying, in the larger discussion, is what you
(30:44):
felt and what I felt the same thing which is
going on here with perplexity. I'm not seeing the evidence
that they're using the same phraseology. They're taking the basic
tenets of the story, the information or the facts of
the story, and then rejumbling it into a story of
their own.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Yeah, I just want to put a finer point on
what I was saying, which is that we have to
get it into our heads that stealing somebody's words they're
writing or anything like that is no different than stopping
somebody and stealing the money out of their wallet or
breaking into their house and stealing their possessions. It is theft,
and it's serious. Just because it happens to be kind
(31:25):
of hard to pin down in terms of value, because
it's not a tangible thing, that doesn't make it any
less theft. Now, as far as this particular case goes,
there might be some technicalities, some nuance, I still think
this stuff should be regulated into oblivion to prevent abuses
and to prevent theft from people, because, as you know,
people who get into the occupations that we're in, whether
(31:48):
it's news or talk radio, journalism of any sort, TV,
writing novel, writing music, that's not easy and okay, and
to have any success in that at all, it's like
getting the brass ring on a merry go round.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Let me push back on that, and I'm going to
again play the other side because I know a little
bit more about the inner workings of KFI than someone
who's listening may not, and I think they would gain
some insight. You have an editor who is responsible for
writing stories. You have to write stories, and you have
to go to other places news sources in which to
(32:27):
collect those facts and then turn it into a Mervyn
Block style stories.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
Isn't that correct? Extra points for the mervyn block reference.
Generally that's correct. Yes, Okay.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
How would that be different than this AI robot dot
txt crawling engine doing what seems to be the same thing,
going to other sources, verifying if you will, with multiple
sources the facts, and then generating the story.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
I think I can explain, for one thing, we pay
for the wire services that we use, so we are paying.
We are paying for the bulk of the information that
we pass on to and if it's something that say
the New York Times, has we cite them or the
Washington Post, we cite the source. M Okay, I can't
(33:16):
argue with that. I cannot believe with that. Foosh, are
you recording this really?
Speaker 2 (33:21):
No?
Speaker 3 (33:22):
No?
Speaker 2 (33:22):
I think for a for a complete debate, I think
you need to consider all of the the nuances and
the vagaries of how this information is used in our business.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
Yeah. Another thing to keep in mind with this whole
AI thing is think of the reasons for the things
that are being done, and again, qui bono, who benefits
from them? If the reason is you don't want to
pay a person to spend all day doing it and
give them health coverage and that kind of thing, pay
them a living wage, that's one thing. If it's a
(33:55):
thing that a human being can't do, that's an entirely
different thing.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Are you saying that you're as good as a computer,
as a as an artificial intelligence?
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Where would I even begin with that until I get
one of Elon Musk's little brain chip and plans and
hope it doesn't catch on fire in my skull.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
No, honestly, I think we're all eminently replaceable. And going
back to the whole I robot comparison, Yeah, they have.
They have artificial intelligence which can create a symphony. Now
is it derivative, Yes, But you know all art, all
creation is derivative. It is based on it is like
(34:39):
it is similar to and I don't know how much
true creativity is anymore. Look, you have someone who's going
to write a song. It's going to sound eerily reminiscent
of this artist or that artist. In a particular genre,
you have someone who's going to create a movie. Oh,
it's going to be very similar to someone's script or
someone's idea, someone's log line, don't I think we're past
(35:01):
the point of we're at the point of no return
as far as what we consider creation to be in
a content sense, I.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
Don't know about that. I don't think anybody wants to read,
or watch or listen to any piece of art that's
generated by an AI. I think they want something from
a human. That's where the connection is, and we have.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Have you listened to what's on the radio. We are
not a high standard species. I'm not going to argue
against that.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
But we've had kind of a midpoint toward this hellscape
with things like the Save the Cat formula for writing screenplays,
which just completely leeches all the art out of something
and has you copy a format from works that have
already been successful. It's garbage. And once you read that
book to Save the Cat book, you'll be able to
tell every movie you ever see that copies from it,
(35:50):
and it's crap. Nobody wants it.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
But they do that in music that I use music
as an example because music sells, you know, talking about
the one four five core progression or the the chords
which are are the found in the most number one
hit songs. I mean there is an intentional repetition science
to creating art which sells, and it is it is
(36:13):
a derivative and it's diminutive in nature. Well, it is
taking from what has already succeeded.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
Yeah, every single artist, writer, movie director, anything like that.
You know, what they give you in their art is
the product of a lifetime of them absorbing things like
little downloads like Neo and the Matrix. Every time you
read a book or watch a movie, that becomes a
part of you. But what but what you write or
you know, the music you put out, that's your own
(36:42):
original composition. And you can't say that of any ai
yet yet, I like an optimist. It's later with mo Kelly.
We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. Well, at least
you've decided to listen to KFI. See you're making progress.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
K F I N K O S T H D two,
Los Angeles, Orange County, Live
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Everywhere on the radio
You're listening to Later with Moe Kelly on demand from
KFI AM six forty.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
And I got some bad news for Tula Sharp. I
thought I had converted him. I thought I had won
him over. I thought I had turned him into a
cruiser for life. And then there are a couple of
stories which came out which may give him some hesitation.
One hundred and eighty people, maybe more, became sick from
(00:28):
salmonella on a Royal Caribbean cruise ship. That's important because
when Taula and I most recently went on a cruise
with a lot of friends and family, it was Royal
Caribbean Cruise Line, and Royal Caribbean is usually pretty good
about avoiding these things. What makes it worse is it
was on Radiance of the Seas, one of their premier
(00:51):
cruise ships. I've been on Radiance of the Sea, so
I'd know that ship particularly. And if you're wondering, like, well,
how many people are there, Well, they have more than
two thousand passengers. When you say two thousand passengers, they
probably have another two thousand crew members, so up to
four thousand people on the Radiance of the Sea ship.
(01:15):
One hundred and eighty people reported being ill along with
three crew members. And I say this as someone who's
been on a lot of cruises. They're not going to
tell you how many crew members got sick. They're not
that the one hundred and eighty that you know about
is because those are the one hundred and eighty people
who reported it, and they're willing to let that get out.
(01:38):
But the crew, they're not going to let them say
anything about their health status, not publicly, because well, let
me put it this way. If you've ever been on
a cruise ship, you know that the crew and the
passengers are all using the same stuff. You're encountering the
crew every single day. There is no feasible way that
(02:00):
one hundred and eighty passengers would get sick and only
three crew members. Think about that, the crew they're serving,
they're changing lit it in your rooms, they're cleaning the bathrooms.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
All that only three crew members got sick.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
But one hundred and eighty passengers who are coming in
direct contact with crew members and passengers all day long,
all night long. That's just a little bit behind the scenes.
And there's something else that I don't know if if
Twalla remembers this, but before he even got on the ship,
I said, Twalla, don't get on the elevators.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
If you can.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
And also when you use the stairs, do not use
the rails. The stairs are wide enough that they're each
you know, they're at the bow and stern of the ship,
and they're really wide, they're carpeted. You really don't need
to use the rails. It's not like you're going to fall.
They're not steep or anything. But don't put your.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Hands on the rails.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Why because everybody and their mama is putting their hands
on the rails.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
There are other subtleties. When you go to.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
What they call the wind jammer wind jammers the buffet
restaurant aboard Royal Caribbean. When you get like a cup
of water, you're not supposed to reuse that cup. You're
supposed to get a different cup each and every time.
And you will find that some people don't do that
and they'll share the cup with the family member or something.
(03:28):
And that's another way in which you'll have these outbreaks
on ships.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
But I got to ask you to Wali, were you
worried at any time?
Speaker 4 (03:35):
No, I was not worried at any time when we
went on the ship. Why Because I had a ship steward.
I had someone who was able to tell me, don't
you touch those rails when you're going to any of
those restaurants. You make sure you seventimee your hands, You
make sure you use utensils after you wipe them all.
I had hot water at the table. All of that.
(03:57):
I was not messing around. You would see people and
I would just look at them, like, look at your
sick ass. I'm staying away from you, staying away from
the pools all that, and in crowds, staying away from
being right tucked in with people. No, I'm going to
stay on the outside. I saw this story and I said, hmm,
they need to know, mo Kelly, that's what they needed.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
I wonder to alla, of these one hundred and eighty
people who reported being ill, how many of them got
into the pools of the jacuzzis. I really wonder, Oh yeah, oh,
how many of them were in the pools in the jacuzzie,
sharing drinks, not bathing before they got in, not even
bathing when they got out right, because you're okay, if
you don't know you're supposed to bathe, there's a sign.
(04:42):
Espelically you're supposed to bathe before you get in the
jacuzzi of the pool. There's even a shower there that
you can do it, you know, but nobody ever does.
And I've been on six cruises. I have never been
in a jacuzzi. I've never been in the pool once.
That is by choic, not by chance. That is a
conscious decision on my part to limit the likelihood of
(05:05):
contract contracting something in that environment. Now, as far as
the rails, I don't touch the rails, I don't go
on many of the elevators because it's in a small,
enclosed space. Mark Ronner will never get him on a ship.
But oh well no, Look, Mark can get on a
ship if he pays attention to your rules. And there's
another thing what we've got to make sure we let
(05:27):
him know. Do not use the public restrooms. Go back
to your room. Go back to your room to use
the restroom. Yeah, that's another thing. Yeah, it's almost like
a hotel where you will find restrooms on the various floors.
But no, no, because you have hundreds of people conceivably
(05:51):
going through those restrooms before they're cleaned on a given day,
as opposed to in your cabin.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Where it's just you and whoever guess you have.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
So there's some conscious decisions that you have to make
and you have to be aware of your behavior, and
you're far less likely to deal with something like this,
far less likely. But just know when they say that
only three crew members got sick, they're lying. You can't
have one hundred eighty passengers get sick and only three
crew members because one hundred eighty passengers are interacting.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
With the crew.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
You know, the crew is not using different facilities. They're
not going in other words, they're not using different dining halls.
You remember Twala, You would see people who are they're
off time, they're downtime with working the crew. They're in
the wind jammer just like we are, using the same
utensils and everything. So they're using the same facilities that
we are. Only three people. No, you know what disgusted
(06:48):
me when you walk into the wind jammer. On both
sides and in the middle they have sinks and they
have someone there saying washy, washy. They're they're singing it
encouraging you to wash your hands. You're not supposed to
go into the cafeteria with your hands unclean. Coming from
outside this.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
I would watch people go in there and I would
follow them to make sure I don't go to their side.
I immediately to the other side, like, don't go where
this filthy hand having individual is going.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Do not do that.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
They try to shame you into washing your hands, and
I didn't feel bad about it because I think it's
better for everyone. Yep, because they're looking at you and say, oh,
wash your hands. No, they're telling you to wash your hands.
And prior to COVID, those washed stations did not even exist,
so I know that that is a direct result of COVID.
Oh really, Oh yeah, yeah, it was just no, those
(07:42):
wash stations did not exist. And now Royal Cribbean they're
trying to force you to wash your hands. And still
people would like get their ass on their shoulders and
get indignant st and just walk straight through. Or they'll
say I already washed them, Look wash them again so
everyone can feel better. Yeah, because it's buffet style and
(08:03):
the windjammer. Now they have formal dining where people can
go in and have a sit down former like formal
restaurant style serving of a meal, but when you just
want to be able to get something to eat and
tallow and me. We're like, I'm hungry. I'm hungry now.
I want a couple of hamburgers. I want to be
able to go back two and three times whatever. The
windjammer is great for that. But there are a lot
(08:25):
of people in there, a lot of people.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Oh yeah, And I can see how people would absolutely
get salmonella, especially from uncleaned services, because I actually watch
some people go to just sit down at a table,
no tray, just having their food out on the table
on a napkin or something like that. I'm like, you
don't know who was at that table before you. Your
food is just on a napkin.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
I hear. Yeah gross. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Not everyone is clean, and unfortunately sometimes we suffer because
of it. But I'm still going on cruises. I still am.
Oh yeah, absolutely. That's the one danger that I'm going
to You know, it's not like jumping out of an
airplane with a parachute, but this is something I'll do.
It's kind of dangerous, but not real dangerous. Mark, are
you coming with us? I jump out of a plane first,
(09:16):
no contest. Well, there you have it.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
You're listening to Later with Moe Kelly on Demand from
KFI AM six forty.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
And you know, I am a died in the wool
Rams fan.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
The team's not doing great this season, it's not over,
but I live and die with my Rams.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
So when I saw this story, it's like, oh, this
is interesting.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
And if you're into stats like I am, like fantasy football,
or being able to enjoy a game in a different
way or an enhanced way, you might be interested in this.
Mark Bronner wouldn't, but a Rams fan, a true Rams fan, might.
The Rams announced, No, it's true, you're not a sports guy,
(10:01):
so you may not enjoy this.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
No. No, but I have other charming qualities. Yeah, but
none which would apply here. That's all, now, please proceed.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
The Rams announced the partnership with Genius Sports, which is
a data technology and broadcast company and it works in
conjunction with sports, betting and media industries. Now going forward,
at every Rams home game, fans can use the Genius
Sports data processing and AI tool, which they call Genius Iq,
(10:34):
to track everything from how fast a player is running
to how much time the quarterback has to throw. And
that's really really in the weeds, and you would have
to truly be a football fan to talk about time
before release or how fast running back may be running,
or a wide receiver yards after catch, all that kind
of stuff. But if you like the kind of stuff
(10:57):
and I do, this might be kind of cool. After
they are analyzed by AI in real time, the highlights
and stats will be displayed on Sofi's Infinity screen.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
And if you've ever been to SOFI Stadium, it's that.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Big halo ring, which is very similar to what they
just put in the end to it Dome in Inglewood.
It's this big halo's three sixty degree and it's both sides,
so there is media on both sides of this ring,
and it's viewable from anywhere in the stadium. And this
goes to what I've long said about live entertainment, especially
(11:35):
sports entertainment. Why am I going to go and see
something in person if I can have a more enjoyable
experience with more creature comforts at home. We're just talking
about fights at stadiums last night. Why am I going
to go to a stadium worry about a fight breaking
(11:57):
out around me or getting hit in the head with
a or something like that, or missing a play when
I can just stay home and watch NFL Red Zone
or watch the game from the comfort of my couch.
I have a refrigerator right next to me. I can
even pause the game. You can pause live sports, go
(12:20):
to the bathroom, come back, and pick up right where
you left off, and you don't have to miss anything.
That's part of the reason why you're seeing these types
of innovations in live entertainment, because there are so many
ways now to enjoy a game without physically being there.
I don't know if you've seen this, but there's this
new type of event center called cosm Cosm. If you
(12:45):
haven't seen it, you have to google it and look
it up because it's very hard to explain. But it's
an immersive, almost three D experience where you're on field level.
You feel like you're in the game or right next
to the game. It's it's really cool. They have one
in Inglewood as a matter of fact, a plan to
go in the near future where you can experience the
(13:06):
game and it's stadium style seating, but it's almost like
you're at the game. It's a huge half moon screen.
It's another way in which people can enjoy live sports.
They do college games, they do concerts, professional football, professional basketball,
what have you. But it's another way for people to
enjoy these live events without having to actually pay for
(13:30):
a ticket at the event venue. That's why you're seeing
all these types of innovations, inclusive of AI with the RAMS,
because they need to make it more attractive to RAMS
fans like me. I live ten minutes at most from
Sofi Stadium, but if I find a better offer like
(13:52):
staying home, I'm going to stay home because who wants
to deal with parking?
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Not me?
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Who wants to deal with the insanity of crazy fans
and the profanity and the fights.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Not me?
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Who wants to wait in line to get their food.
And it's a lot better now the lines are not
as long because of technology. You can just kind of
scan your food and go. The lines are not as
long in the bathroom anymore. But still it's never going
to be as convenient or as easy as just staying home.
I don't know about you, and I love RAMS football,
(14:26):
but it's not better than me sitting on my couch
even with this. But I understand the reasons why you
have to enhance this experience, And I don't know what
it would take to get someone else in Sofi Stadium.
But once you've gone, you know, that it's a commitment.
I'm not saying it's a chore, but it asks a
(14:46):
lot of you from getting in the stadium. I think
it's one hundred percent digital ticketing now, where you have
your ticket on your phone and you scan it like
a QR code and you get in the stadium. But
still it's a stadium, and it's not as comfortable as
what you have at home. And also, and I don't
think anyone on this show actually plays fantasy football with
(15:09):
the exception. To me, that is another pull away from
the end stadium experience. People are less now fans of
one team and more fans of players on their fantasy team.
They're either betting on the players they have them on
their fantasy team. They're more looking at the sport as
a whole, like the NFL Red Zone, where you'll watch
(15:31):
the scoring plays of all games across the league on
a given Sunday instead of watching one game between two
teams for three hours. These are the things that stadiums
have to somehow compete with and also overcome Genius sports.
Going back to the story, they've partnered with many other
(15:51):
sports leagues around the world to implement the same technology.
They've done this with English Premier League, NASCAR, the NC
two A and others, so you can tell that there
is a general consensus that more needs to be done
to bring people to the stadium. For example, Mark, you're
(16:11):
not a football fan, are you?
Speaker 3 (16:13):
Generally?
Speaker 1 (16:13):
No?
Speaker 3 (16:14):
But I take your point about being in the comfort
of your own home where you can sit and watch
a game in a neglige or a mumu or whatever
you wear and not have to worry. I just saw
some footage yesterday of a sports fan walking around punching
out people who are fans of the opposite team.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Who wants to deal with that, right, who wants to?
I saw it was a Baltimore Ravens fan. He punched
out two Washington Commanders fans just onsite. He just he
was looking for some and he wanted to beat them up.
But there's a happy ending to that story. They found
the guy, They fired the guy. He got fired from
his job, and the social media out at him. And
(16:50):
also he's their charge is pending against him. Just to
let you know, oh yeah, throw away the key. That's insane. Yeah,
over sports. But see that's another deterrent as far as
or disincentive to actually go now here's the correlation. We
talk about this all the time here on Later with
mo Kelly. It's not very different from the movie going experience.
(17:12):
Maybe fewer fights, but there's more reasons to stay home
than it is to brave the elements, waste the gas
and the time, and also not everyone wants to put
up with other people. You know, the communal experience oftentimes
is overrated. I can watch a football game at home
and be just fine. I don't need another seventy thousand
(17:33):
people around me to enjoy it. I can watch a
movie at home. I don't need another three hundred people
around me to enjoy it. And so movie theaters, you actually,
even coffee shops, you know, any type of place where
people are going to congregate. They have to reinvent themselves
in a way to get people like you and me
(17:53):
off our asses and actually come to that location for
hours at a time and spend money. That is no
small undertaking, because being home is pretty damn good. It's
fun more times than not. I don't have to shower,
I don't have to brush my teeth. Well, you buried
the lead there about the showering. I love the communal
(18:14):
experience of going to a movie. But I do believe,
and don't you as well, that people are starting to
act much worse than they ever have for some reason. Yes,
I believe it's it's still a function of COVID, where
we somehow not socializing for two years or so. It
seems like we lost all ability or inclination to act
(18:39):
like civilized individuals. If I could trace it back to anything,
I would say COVID and that period of isolation.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Well maybe this is where your citizenship classes had come
in handy.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Well, you know, look from your lips to God's ears.
You know they haven't put they haven't put civics back
in school. You know we don't. We don't reward good
citizens ship. And you know this.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Is what we get.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
We've for all the complaints we have about society.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
We didn't get here overnight.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
We've done a lot of things to earn what we
don't like about society.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Well, you are successfully turning me into a Moe Kelly
TM misanthropist. You hate people. No, never I ever, As always,
I'm just following your lead. Mo, It's later with Mo
Kelly CAF. I am six forty. We're live everywhere on
the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
And when we come back, I'm going to keep the
AI theme going. New York Times earlier this week has
warned an AI company called Perplexity to stop using its content.
Damn it, Mark Ramer was right again and I hate no.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
That's next.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
You're listening to Later with Moe Kelly on demand from
KFI AM six forty.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Caff I.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Mo' kelly here, We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.
And when I saw this next story, I immediately thought
of Mark Ronner, and I wanted to take my time
with this because this is also part of an ongoing
conversation the implementation of AI where it makes sense, where
it is I would say stealing to use Mark Ronner's word,
(20:26):
where it actually adds something to us as people or society,
or also in the creation of content. The New York
Times has demanded that the AI search engine startup company
Perplexity stop using content from the New York Times website
(20:46):
in a cease and desist letter sent to the company.
The New York Times presently is also suing open Ai
and Microsoft over allegedly illegally training its AI models using
the New York Times content, which goes back to what
Mark Roner says. It can't do anything, It can't create anything.
It needs established and already created content for it to
(21:11):
have any value.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Paraphrasing, but something to that effect.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Now, Perplexity and its business partners are fighting back against
The New York Times, and they're saying that nobody has
a copyright on facts. Nobody owns the copyright to facts.
They're trying to argue, the information which is taken from
The New York Times is just the facts, not the phrasing,
(21:39):
not the wording, not actual paragraphs which were used by writers,
but just the baseline information.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Mark, What do you have to say to that? Can
you feel how angry I'm getting? Just?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (21:56):
I know, Oh I know. That's why I did the story.
I mean. And I say this as a person who
has written stories and then watched as a TV news
anchor ripped them off word for a word, having my
stuff read to me on the air with no acknowledgment
of the source whatsoever. I think this is absolutely evil.
(22:17):
You can't copyright facts, Okay, then go do your own reporting.
That stuff doesn't just appear out of the ether on
its own to be plucked out like fruit from a tree. Yeah,
but can you prove it? Yes?
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Can you?
Speaker 3 (22:34):
Yeah? No? No, no, no, no, not you.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
I'm saying, I'm sorry, going back to New York Times,
Oh can they prove it? How do you mean exactly?
I want to make sure we're clear. Well, let's make
I'm making a delineation, a distinction between the facts. In
other words, the Dodgers lost to the Mets last night
six to three, excuse me, seven to three, as reported
in the New York Times. If perplexity uses that information
(22:59):
to inform their model that the Mets beat the Dodgers
seven to three, is that plagiarism. I'm playing both sides
of the argument because factually that's true. Stylistically, it's not
The New York Times.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Well, the event occurred regardless of who reported it, but
this AI swine wouldn't know about it apart from the
reporting that they read someplace.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Ah, okay, okay. So you're saying, look, without us, there
is no U period.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
I think that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Yes, yeah, and they're saying, but the you we're taking
from is public information, no different from me or you
reading the New York Times and saying, hey, Mark, did
you see the Dodgers lost to the New York Mets
last night seven to three.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Oh really, how'd you see that? I saw in New
York Times. Yeah. It's pretty funny, isn't it. How free
public information always seems to be the result of someone
else's leg work and effort.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
But it's not illegal for me to then reference that
in a write up or a radio show and not
even give attribution. Hey, the Dodgers loss last night seven
to three. I could have gotten it from ESPN, could
have gotten it from New York Times, could have gotten
it from Mark Ronner when he talked about it in
the KFI twenty four newsroom.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
I do, and I mean there's there are differences, and
they get finer and finer. The more you know, the
more granular you get into this discussion. But as a journalist,
we cite our sources. If something's common knowledge, you know,
like the Earth rotates around the sun and by the
way it does, if you were wondering about that, you
know other things don't know? Do your research? Yeah, do
(24:40):
your own research. Yeah, some things are common knowledge. Other
things you always cite your source. And if you're in
the AI business, you don't get the benefit of the doubt,
you better cite your source.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Yeah, but they're not journalists, and I'm still playing the
other side of the argument.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
They're not journalists, but they're using the product of journalism.
I don't like this term, but the work product of journalism.
I hate the word content too. But you know exactly
what I'm getting at with this. It's a catch all.
These are things that require the effort of humans with
experience judgment, who have actually put hours of their time
into it. For this information to be gleaned from another entity,
(25:21):
whether it's a human or an AI. Well, you're lucky
that I carved out time.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
We can go a second segment with this, because I
still want to push back on your belief that this
is plagiarism or stealing when they're taking the baseline information,
or at least that's the argument that Perplexity is making.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
It's noble of you to take their sight on this.
I appreciate that we can't agree all the time. Mark, No,
that's boring. It's just unhealthy too. Nobody wants to hear
us agree.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
You're listening to Later with Moe Kelly on Demand from
KFI AM six forty.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Mo Kelly, We're Live Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, and
we're going deep into the discussion of AI and when
it may cross the boundaries when we're talking about journalism specifically.
We all know that AI has potential to enrich our
lives in some way, or at least I believe that
(26:18):
we're not in agreement on where it should have a role,
if it should have a role in content creation when
it's connected to journalism. And last segment, I started talking
about how The New York Times has sent a cease
and desist to the company Perplexity, saying it has to
(26:38):
stop using the New York Times content from training its
AI model. This is what New York Times also had
to say, Perplexity and its business partners have been unjustly
enriched by using without authorization The Times expressive carefully written
and researched and edited journalism with out a license. The
(27:02):
New York Times also prohibits using its content for AI
model training. It disallows several AI crawlers, including Perplexities, in
its robots dot txt file that tell search engine crawlers
which URLs they can index.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Mark Ronner, there is no nuance for you.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Is that fair to say you're all the way on
the side of perplexity has no right to anything that
it may find via the New York Times.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Is that fair? Well, there's some nuance. I mean, I
read about something the other day about an AI that
could perform calculations in some medical issue that would have
taken a person weeks, months, years to do. That's a
perfectly valid good use for AI. But when you talk
about talking about assimilating information that other people have created
to pump out, crank out some ersatz garbage, Yeah, there's
(27:58):
not a lot of subtlety for me with that.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Okay, what about then you have someone like not someone
something like the Los Angeles Times, And I use this
example before it I think it bears mentioning again. They
have an earthquake bot which will put up a completed story.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Moments after an earthquake happens.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
It is a full story, you know, a four point
two earthquake which was centered at such and happened at
seven to fifty five PM.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
No, it's a full story. It's about maybe five or
six lines.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
I would argue that it's probably resourcing similar stories from
around the web, inclusive of the New York Times and
other places. Do you think that to be plagiarism when
the specifics and the facts would change from earthquake to earthquake.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Well, it seems to me like you could also extend
that to doing the weather. You can you can gather
data that isn't necessarily the work of a human being
sitting there pounding things out at a keyboard. And I
think one aspect of this that isn't really discussed as
much as it should be is that there's this kind
of pervasive sense to me that people think information is
(29:08):
and should be free. And this isn't stuff that just
drops out of heaven. It is the product of people
sitting there and doing work and bringing their experience to
the table. It's not something anybody could do. It's not
and I say this as somebody who's had so many
things stolen from me over the years. I had a
TV series stolen from me. It wasn't free. I put
(29:29):
many many hours and months of my time into that.
And like I said in the last segment, I've had
news stories that I've written red word for word on
the air on TV. Nobody mentioned where it came from.
We have to acknowledge that these things are the product
of people who do work, and that's not free. It's
no different than somebody who picks a vegetable or does welding.
(29:52):
For you, work is work if somebody does it.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
I'm really not disagreeing with you, and I know Twala
would agree with me when I say that there are
times where we've seen our work on this show being
used as the basis and evidence for stories which have
run in the La Times and other places, almost word
for word. Yet and I've called out the writer on
(30:20):
Twitter and other occasions saying like this, you did not
come up with this on your own. It's way too
damn specific, using the same terminology and phraseology that I did.
Maybe just didn't think that I was going to see it,
to which there was no response. So emotionally, I'm right
there with you. I've been a victim of it as well.
I'm just saying, in the larger discussion, is what you
(30:44):
felt and what I felt the same thing which is
going on here with perplexity. I'm not seeing the evidence
that they're using the same phraseology. They're taking the basic
tenets of the story, the information or the facts of
the story, and then rejumbling it into a story of
their own.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Yeah, I just want to put a finer point on
what I was saying, which is that we have to
get it into our heads that stealing somebody's words they're
writing or anything like that is no different than stopping
somebody and stealing the money out of their wallet or
breaking into their house and stealing their possessions. It is theft,
and it's serious. Just because it happens to be kind
(31:25):
of hard to pin down in terms of value, because
it's not a tangible thing, that doesn't make it any
less theft. Now, as far as this particular case goes,
there might be some technicalities, some nuance, I still think
this stuff should be regulated into oblivion to prevent abuses
and to prevent theft from people, because, as you know,
people who get into the occupations that we're in, whether
(31:48):
it's news or talk radio, journalism of any sort, TV,
writing novel, writing music, that's not easy and okay, and
to have any success in that at all, it's like
getting the brass ring on a merry go round.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Let me push back on that, and I'm going to
again play the other side because I know a little
bit more about the inner workings of KFI than someone
who's listening may not, and I think they would gain
some insight. You have an editor who is responsible for
writing stories. You have to write stories, and you have
to go to other places news sources in which to
(32:27):
collect those facts and then turn it into a Mervyn
Block style stories.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
Isn't that correct? Extra points for the mervyn block reference.
Generally that's correct. Yes, Okay.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
How would that be different than this AI robot dot
txt crawling engine doing what seems to be the same thing,
going to other sources, verifying if you will, with multiple
sources the facts, and then generating the story.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
I think I can explain, for one thing, we pay
for the wire services that we use, so we are paying.
We are paying for the bulk of the information that
we pass on to and if it's something that say
the New York Times, has we cite them or the
Washington Post, we cite the source. M Okay, I can't
(33:16):
argue with that. I cannot believe with that. Foosh, are
you recording this really?
Speaker 2 (33:21):
No?
Speaker 3 (33:22):
No?
Speaker 2 (33:22):
I think for a for a complete debate, I think
you need to consider all of the the nuances and
the vagaries of how this information is used in our business.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
Yeah. Another thing to keep in mind with this whole
AI thing is think of the reasons for the things
that are being done, and again, qui bono, who benefits
from them? If the reason is you don't want to
pay a person to spend all day doing it and
give them health coverage and that kind of thing, pay
them a living wage, that's one thing. If it's a
(33:55):
thing that a human being can't do, that's an entirely
different thing.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Are you saying that you're as good as a computer,
as a as an artificial intelligence?
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Where would I even begin with that until I get
one of Elon Musk's little brain chip and plans and
hope it doesn't catch on fire in my skull.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
No, honestly, I think we're all eminently replaceable. And going
back to the whole I robot comparison, Yeah, they have.
They have artificial intelligence which can create a symphony. Now
is it derivative, Yes, But you know all art, all
creation is derivative. It is based on it is like
(34:39):
it is similar to and I don't know how much
true creativity is anymore. Look, you have someone who's going
to write a song. It's going to sound eerily reminiscent
of this artist or that artist. In a particular genre,
you have someone who's going to create a movie. Oh,
it's going to be very similar to someone's script or
someone's idea, someone's log line, don't I think we're past
(35:01):
the point of we're at the point of no return
as far as what we consider creation to be in
a content sense, I.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
Don't know about that. I don't think anybody wants to read,
or watch or listen to any piece of art that's
generated by an AI. I think they want something from
a human. That's where the connection is, and we have.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Have you listened to what's on the radio. We are
not a high standard species. I'm not going to argue
against that.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
But we've had kind of a midpoint toward this hellscape
with things like the Save the Cat formula for writing screenplays,
which just completely leeches all the art out of something
and has you copy a format from works that have
already been successful. It's garbage. And once you read that
book to Save the Cat book, you'll be able to
tell every movie you ever see that copies from it,
(35:50):
and it's crap. Nobody wants it.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
But they do that in music that I use music
as an example because music sells, you know, talking about
the one four five core progression or the the chords
which are are the found in the most number one
hit songs. I mean there is an intentional repetition science
to creating art which sells, and it is it is
(36:13):
a derivative and it's diminutive in nature. Well, it is
taking from what has already succeeded.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
Yeah, every single artist, writer, movie director, anything like that.
You know, what they give you in their art is
the product of a lifetime of them absorbing things like
little downloads like Neo and the Matrix. Every time you
read a book or watch a movie, that becomes a
part of you. But what but what you write or
you know, the music you put out, that's your own
(36:42):
original composition. And you can't say that of any ai
yet yet, I like an optimist. It's later with mo Kelly.
We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. Well, at least
you've decided to listen to KFI. See you're making progress.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
K F I N K O S T H D two,
Los Angeles, Orange County, Live
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Everywhere on the radio
Later, with Mo'Kelly News
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