June 16, 2023 • 25 mins
Why is it that we swipe away on dating apps until we are so bored we don't even want to date? Dating apps are actually biohacking our evolutionary programing if we dont use them correctly. Let's talk Dating APPathy!
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(00:00):
Why is it that when you usea dating app you swipe and swipe and
swipe, and after a while youget so bored you don't even want to
go out on a date. Thisis doctor Wendy Walsh. How dating apps
can actually bio hack your evolutionary programmingunless you use them correctly. This is
mating matters, romance, dating,falling in love. Choosing a romantic partner
(00:31):
to share your dinner table, yourbed, or your entire life is frankly
the most important decision a human canever make. This is doctor Wendy Walsh.
Welcome to mating Matters. It's whywe do what we do. In
this episode, dating apathy. Aredating apps changing the way we relate?
(00:53):
This is important because making the wrongdecision and be downright dangerous. Sorry to
break it to you, but poorromantic decisions can lead to poverty, physical
injury, or even death. Andthe greater risk lies with women. Did
you know that half of murdered womenare killed by their intimate partner. Every
(01:17):
day in America, three women arekilled by their lover. Yikes. Fortunately
that doesn't happen to the vast majorityof lovers. But finding a safe,
reliable, romantic partner who will keepyou out of poverty, stimulate you emotionally
and intellectually, and also be physicallyattractive. Well that's a tall order.
(01:42):
Long before there was the Internet andsmartphone dating apps, lovers mostly met through
a personal introduction or a chance meeting. In the movie Isn't It Romantic,
Rebel Wilson and Liam Hemsworth's characters havea chance encounter of their own. You're
quite beguiling, are you feeling?I'm feeling no. But then along came
a much more efficient way to meetpeople. Media. First, in the
(02:06):
nineteen eighties, it was print media. People took out small personal ads in
the back of newspapers and magazines.Remember the Pina Colada song by Rupert Holmes.
I read who was let? Yeah? Those two philandering lovers found each
(02:28):
other again through a personal ad.After personal ads, the Internet came along.
In the nineteen nineties movie You've GotMail, Meg Ryan and Tom Hanks
launched a silver screen email romance thatechoed what so many people were experiencing in
the nineteen nineties as their courtship beganto grow through technology. I turn on
my computer, I go online,welcome, and my breath catches in my
(02:53):
chest until I hear three little words. What is going on is an infidelity?
If you're involved with someone, email, move over AOL. Dating then
got fast, more real fast,from dating websites to dating apps, from
swishes to pings, likes, matches, messaging, and yes, ghosting,
(03:19):
Millions of people all over the worlddove into online dating. I want you
to know that there's plenty of goodabout online dating, and there's a bit
of bad too if you don't knowwhat you're doing. First of all,
dating apps make it easier to findthat special someone, that unicorn, so
to speak. But the technology itselfis not only changing the way we relate,
(03:43):
it could actually be changing our brains. But no matter what your fancy,
there is a never ending array ofdating websites and apps that appeal to
every niche market, from religious peopleto the polyamorous, from farmers to gay
people. I've been on and offusing zeus zsk am I pronouncing that right,
(04:04):
zis Christian Mingle when I was incollege as when I started using them,
started off with Tinder. So I'veused Tinder, I've used Bumble.
Those are the two that I've usedthe most. I used okay, Cupid
back in the day, and plentyof Fish as well. So bumble where
I've used Tinder, I've used Grinder, I've used another app called Chappy,
(04:25):
which is where you can be othergay men, and then online, I've
used Match, so I like thatfor a while. Um, and now
I'm on a dating app called Hingemost recently. Let's start with the good
news. People are indeed meeting andmarrying through online connections. So I went
on Match, and I was onMatch actually for about ten days. That's
(04:48):
a single mother with an eleven yearold daughter. She told me she had
just come out of an eighteen monthrelationship that one had begun as an introduction
through friends, but had gone sour. So she just decided to try online
dating. Yes, she met theperfect guy after only ten days. Her
criteria, though, was strict herperspective. Mate had to be a Christian,
(05:12):
lived nearby, and seemed like thekind of guy who could be a
good stepfather and mix well with herfamily. To determine that, she brought
her mother and daughter to first datesbecause we're the package. So I'm not
going to waste my time. Ifyou can't take us, forget it.
So I wanted him to know whathe's getting into, And my mom brought
her boyfriend and who happened to knowthe person I was meeting, and worked
(05:38):
out great, and forty five dayslater we actually got engaged. The wedding
will be us six and a halfmonths away. Wow, she's not alone.
A twenty thirteen study from researchers atthe University of Chicago and Harvard University
found that one third of American marriagesnow begin as online meetings, and that
(06:00):
marriages that began online were slightly lesslikely to result in a marital breakup,
and they were associated with slightly highermarital satisfaction. Of course, I should
add this is a self report internetstudy. While the large number of participants
nearly twenty thousand is quite impressive,questions remain about how honestly people answer self
report studies, or whether the personalitytypes of people who prefer online dating factor
(06:27):
in. Either way, this ispromising research. The other positive news about
online dating is that it's really goodfor subgroups who may have a very small
like minded dating pool in their owncommunities, ethnic and religious minorities, people
with disabilities, gender variances, andsexual orientation differences in fact, dating apps
began with a single app called Grinder. Grinder was designed to help gay men
(06:55):
find friends wherever they went. Formost gay people, online dating is far
more positive than negative. I thinkmostly positive because it's a you know,
for me, I don't want tomeet people in bars, you know,
and it's particularly you know, it'sharder in the gay world because you have
a safe place to meet people,right and those environments provide an easy place
(07:19):
and it's an easy way to meintroductions. So that's the good news.
People are actually meeting, meeting andcommitting through online meetings. And online dating
is particularly helpful for subgroups because ofpeople who don't have much dating opportunity,
either because they live in small communitiesor because there are a minority. Online
dating also saves a whole lot oftime. You don't have to get dressed
(07:40):
up, you don't need to spendmoney in time in bars and nightclubs,
and you can vet people before youwaste time on a date. You can
do a Google search or even afull background check. In some ways,
this makes online dating safer than meetinga random stranger in a dark club.
Now here's the bad news. Justlike a nightclub dating apps are filled with
(08:03):
people looking for long term relationships,short term relationships, affairs, and polyamorous
group fun and they're all lumped together, so it's kind of buyer beware.
Asking people what they're looking for andadvertising exactly what you'd like to find is
crucial, though people still like tolie. Oh and speaking of lying,
(08:24):
online dating sadly also hosts a lotof scammers. Scammers fall into one of
two categories. In category one arelonely people unhappy with their own lives who
pretend to be the person they wishthey were, and to conceal their fraud,
they're very skilled at providing excuses asto why they can't meet up in
the real world. These are calledcatfishes, and there's a whole documentary and
(08:46):
MTV series that shows some pretty shockingreveals. It's called Catfish. A young
guy named Dylan contacted me and Maxafter receiving an anonymous tip claiming his online
love Ali was actually an impostor.I'm just like dumbfounded. WHOA. I
don't even know how they got mynumber. Once we started digging, we
soon discovered that whoever Dylan was talkingto it actually catfished people before then there
(09:11):
are the criminal romance scammers. Thesepeople are often part of syndicates in countries
like Nigeria and Ghana. They preyon lonely people around the world by getting
them to fall in love with themonline, and eventually they ask for money.
I talked to him a few times. I mean we messaged every day,
Johnson says she and Cole engaged ina two year online relationship, but
(09:35):
never met in person. Over thecourse of their relationship, Johnson says she
gave Cole more than a million dollarsin increments. At this point, your
heart rules your head, and Iwas doing what my heart what wanted me
to do. In the most egregiouscases, romance scammers practice extortion. They
record people's most intimate conversations or evenvideotape skype sex and threatened posted online if
(10:01):
the victim doesn't pay the money.Tonight, the heartbreaking family tragedy. A
father from Yonkers is dead and hisfamily believes it's all because he was sucked
into an international romance and money scheme, causing him to lose everything and even
steal from relatives. That's the trickything about love. It's like a drug
and can make our brains do justabout anything to keep it Now, for
(10:22):
most people, online dating when usedsafely, that is with Google searches,
real world meetings, and the latestinvention use of social media that shows how
many friends you actually have in common. All that is a positive experience.
But there's one other shortcoming to onlinedating apps. They can become addictive.
Justin Garcia is the research director atthe Kinsey Institute and scientific advisor from match
(10:46):
dot com. One of the issuesseems to be that it's been what we
say is gamified, and that theapps they feel like a game, and
you can swipe through dozens or hundredsof pictures in a few minutes, and
that changes the way we're interacting withpotential partners or people that were assessing.
Many people like this forty year oldsingle father, fall prey to the lure
(11:09):
of a perfect, happy ending.Everyone wants to be wanted, and I
want people to be wanted. Iwant I love the romantic endings. I
believe in happy endings, and Imight go to my grave with that philosophy.
And I think that that's what thedating sites propose, is that happy
ending For this man. Scammers weren'tthe problem. It was the addictive quality
(11:31):
of dating apps that keeps one gluedto the app rather than dating in the
real world. It's caused by adelicious rush of the neuro hormone dopamine.
Every time there's a match or anew message promising romantic opportunity, your brain
gets a tiny hit. Since datingapps reward the brain at random intervals with
varying sizes of rewards, a messagefrom a particularly attractive person might bring more
(11:54):
dopamine than an average looking person.The apps act exactly like a slot machine,
trapping the brain in addictive systems ofrewards. Just like gambling, dating
apps work using classical conditioning. RememberPavlov and his dog, except the stimulus
isn't a bell and the reward isn'ta food treat. The stimulus with a
(12:18):
dating app is a swipe, andthe reward is a match. Here's justin
Garcia again. It turns out thatin those studies what works best is every
so often when you ring that bell, you don't give a treat to the
animal, and the test condition adog or at a fish. Now for
the dating apps, there's something similarthat's happening that you get this sort of
(12:39):
periodic reward that keeps you hooked.Exactly Like you said, it's like gambling
and and that's a mix of things. Part of that can be the algorithms
depending on the company and the appand the site, and part of it
is just sort of random choice thatyou're going through so many dozens or hundreds
of options. You'll occasionally find onethat you like, and occasionally we'll find
one that messages you or likes you, or you both right. I don't
(13:00):
know. It reminds me of aLas Vegas casino. There's no clocks,
there's there's so much diversion. Thefarther you get into the casino, the
harder it is to come on out. You probably get a bit of a
high from it, knowing it's it'sa way of seeking validation from other people.
You know, how many times didI swipe right today? How many
responses in you know, reciprocations ofthat did I receive if I swiped right?
(13:24):
You know, twenty five times?I got thirteen people that swipped right
too. I was like, ohman, I'm really feeling pretty good about
myself. And at the beginning itwas super fun, just like any normal
addiction, I think, and theneventually it kind of just took over.
And so I would spend time lookingat these sites while I was in traffic,
and there would be um, justa wash of I would say,
(13:46):
a wash of energy. If anybodyever responded it was, and there would
be like it was. It wasfun. It felt good to be acknowledged,
but slowly but surely, it feltlike it was taking my self esteem
apart. Besides being addictive, datingapps can also create something psychologists call a
paradox of choice. The more choiceis a human being is presented with,
(14:07):
the less likely they are to makea choice, and the less happy they
feel with the choices they make.There's a sense that there's an unlimited number
of options. You can go onan app and swipe for an hour,
especially if it's somewhere you know,like LA or New York or Miami population
density, you could swipe for hoursand hours and hours. And that changes
are a way that we interact withthe app, in part because it changes
(14:31):
the way we think about the peopleon the other side of that app.
We think, well, if they'renot perfect, there's another one, and
there's another one, and there's anotherone, and we often end up chasing
these what Rob Sternberg calls our lovestories. Right, we're chasing these ideal
notions of well, my partner hasto be exactly like this, and this
makes us less happy with our choice. Some scientists think it's because we sometimes
(14:54):
always have a foot out the door. We always think, well, if
this isn't great, there's another thousand. Besides being tricked by a paradox of
choice, dating apps also create asimilar phenomenon that Garcia calls cognitive overload.
We have a hard time deciding ohright, particularly went to say yes?
And in part that's when we've gotsuch a large menu or so many options,
(15:16):
we have a really difficult time makinga decision. Remember the young woman
who's been using dating apps since shewas in college, she's definitely beginning to
suffer from what I call dating apathy. I mean, even when I'm looking
for a movie to watch on Netflix, I get stressed out because I'm like,
oh god, there's so many choices. I don't want to watch anything
anymore. I'm done. I'm done. And then I'm like I throw down
(15:37):
the remote and I'm like, letme go do something else. But I
mean if I was like going toBlockbuster and I'm like, I'm like,
okay, I have to rent onemovie. I see all the movies right
here in my face. I knowwhere the new selections are, I know
where the old movies are. Likeit's easy, I can go in.
I get it, and I'm dedicatedto it because I worked a little bit
(15:58):
for that movie. If I'm anapp, I'm just swiping and I'm just
like, it doesn't matter. Somany choices didn't matter, even if you
do get a match. Next beginsa texting marathon. When people send me
those endless texts what I typically do. At some point, you just have
to cut it off right because itdoesn't go anywhere, and it's a waste
of time that you could spend elsewhere. Here's the man who told us he
(16:19):
was once addicted to dating apps.Online sites are time bandits, So once
the conversations start going, I wouldlose out on my own family time,
you know, my own people's time, my own tribe would lose out time
with me, even if I wasin the room, even if we were
at dinner, I wasn't. Iwas on I'm looking at the site.
(16:40):
Eventually, this man stopped using alldating apps. He even closed most of
his social media accounts. I hadto come to a moment of self realization.
So now I've completely taken down myInstagram. I'm in the midst of
taking down my Facebook, just youknow, for business purposes. I don't
want to live digitally at all now, like it wul feeling and if scammers,
(17:02):
addiction and paradox of choice aren't enough, many first time online daters become
rattled by a new dating social trendcalled ghosting. Ghosting is the worst.
It is the worst. It's whenyou really like somebody and then they just
all of a sudden, just falloff the face of the earth. It's
like, what happened to you?I know one guy, I met him
(17:23):
on an app. We really hada connection. We'd face time, we'd
snapchat, we text. We didnot meet yet though, so we were
about to meet, and I don'tknow what happened to him. He just
left. Even though she's young andaccustomed to dating app etiquette, she says
she'll never get used to being ghosted. I mean, it feels like you've
(17:45):
been rejected, you know, andespecially after you're like putting your effort into
somebody, it's like a slam inthe face, like You're just like,
what in the world is happening?And they'll block your phone number, your
Instagram, your face, but youwill not be able to tell anything about
what they're doing. And that's theworst feeling because you don't have answers,
And when you don't have answers,your mind wonders and you're just thinking,
(18:07):
like, is in me? AmI ugly? Am I annoying? Do
I? Am? I just aterrible person? I know a few things
about love. There are plenty ofhormones and neurotransmitters involved in the process of
love. The early lustful phase isdominated by testosterone and estrogen, but secure
attachment is a calmer, cozier drug, ruled by vasopressin and oxytocin. So
(18:30):
thinking about dating apps, I cameup with this theory. I mean,
everybody knows that the most unstable stagesof love are at the very beginning and
the end, and that's when wecrave dopamine and europeenephron to cope with those
feelings of uncertainty. Does he likeme? Are we a couple? Are
we breaking up? What's happening?The mill stage is when we securely settle
(18:52):
down into companion at love and experienceattachment with those yummy bursts of oxytocin and
vasopressin. My hypothesis is that datingapps trap people in the beginnings and endings
of relationships with sporadic bursts of dopamine. Not unlike that slot machine in Vegas.
Dating apps train humans to become addictedto new partners as a kind of
(19:12):
dopamine addiction, but many never getthe payoff of feelings of security that come
with oxytocin and vasopressin. There aremany people who get blasts of dopamine through
endless online interactions likes, matches,and messages with people they've never met in
the real world. Then they satisfytheir cravings for surges and testosterone and estrogen
(19:34):
and other hormones through online pornography,hacking their biochemistry with technology. I pose
my theory to the Kinsey Institutes doctorJustin Garcia that using the app alone and
then also the kind of texting relationships, multiple texting relationships that come out of
these apps, for many people,that's enough. It starts to create enough
(20:00):
dopamine that they literally don't need todate. Yeah, I think you're hit
the nail on the head I thinkthat's the that's a piece that no one's
talking about. That there's a numberof people that have swiping all day and
talking to a bunch of people.They're sort of getting satiated. They're sort
of getting the whether it's the intimateand sexual communication or just the social connections.
(20:22):
I think that we're starting to seea little bit of evidence and you're
you're ahead of the curve, orwe don't have the data yet to say
it, but I think you're right, that's what That's what everything is starting
to indicate. And there's something elseI think technology is doing to us.
I think dating apps can actually changeour brains, impacting our reward centers and
rewiring how we perceive the world andlove. For some this is the new
(20:45):
normal. It's a bizarre form ofbiohacking, really, and that you can
get these different types of social connectionsand intimate interactions and kind of feel Okay,
it's not necessarily fulfilling what many peoplewant in the long term, but
they can kind of ride it out. So why is it that some people
don't fall victim to this paradox ofchoice, this addictive quality, this biohack.
(21:11):
Maybe it's how they use the appto avoid the neurotraps. Remember the
gay man we spoke with earlier,He says he has great success with the
apps and has formed many long termrelationships and close friendships. Usually my objective
is when I hear from someone asas quickly as possible, meet them in
person, because that's when you know, right, you have to see them
in person so that I don't reallyget off on the endless sort of back
(21:34):
and forth conversation. I want toas soon as I sort of vet them
and make sure they're not a serialkiller, right, I want to meet
them in person. And remember thewoman who brought her mother and daughter to
first dates and met her fiance afterjust ten days online. Here's her advice
to others. A lot of itis luck, A lot of it is
it is I truly believe a numbersgame. But if everyone as the attitude,
(22:00):
you're responsible for your own happiness.There are a lot of people out
there who want a relationship, andit's just you know, trying to weed
out the people that you think maynot fit and just go for it and
just be safe and meet in apublic place and tell your friends where you're
at. Actually, I had twoonline dates before I met my fiance,
(22:23):
and I was there for fifteen minutes, and again my mom and daughter showed
up at the restaurant. I wouldadd to her advice, Get on the
phone quickly within a few days.If you like what you hear, meet
for a casual coffee soon after.If that goes well, then go off
the app and stop and focus andask your date to do the same.
(22:45):
You know you have to go throughand sift through what you're looking for,
but you have to be honest withwho you are and what you want and
hopefully find that same person that ison your wavelength. It's not that you
have to get married and be exclusiveright away, but if you're gonna,
if you want a date, you'vegot to psychologically get yourself in the mode
(23:07):
to do it. And there's awhole psychology and neurobiology of that focused attention
and thinking about that person and notbeing distracted. And if you do feel
you're becoming addicted to the apps,shut them off for a few months,
take a break. That's what theyoung man who believes he had become addicted
did. Man, the natural versionof meeting someone is just so much better.
(23:27):
It takes a lot more work,but it's why it gives it a
priceless feeling, whereas I just feltdollar store with the online dating sites.
And here's the best news of allabout online dating. Not only do one
third of American marriages begin online,but research shows that couples who reported that
they'd met online also reported greater maritalsatisfaction. Maybe those who have good relationship
(23:52):
skills will always find a good mateno matter where they swipe. My whole
life, I've been looking for thisideal person, and I was always trying
to put a round peg in asquare hole, trying to make it work,
and I kind of gave up,and then I met him. And
that's why we're engaged so quickly,is because when you spend your whole life
looking for this type of person youhave in your mind and you know how
(24:17):
you want to be loved, andyou finally find that, you're not going
to waste time and say there's someoneelse out there, because you know you
found it. You just put yourbest self out there, put yourself in
the best profile, put yourself lookingas nice as you possibly can, have
a smile on your face, havea positive message, and then see where
it goes from there. I havealways gotten a pretty solid response from that,
and I called that other person upand said, I think I've found
(24:41):
the love of my life. Thankyou for listening to Mating Matters. I'm
doctor Wendy Walsh with my producer BrookPeterson in our next episode, what is
Love for Real The bio psycho socialaspects of Love. Mating Matters with Doctor
(25:03):
Wendy Walsh is produced by iHeartMedia.It is researched, written and hosted by
me, Doctor Wendy Walsh, andproduced and edited by the Brooke Peterson.
Follow us on Twitter, Facebook,YouTube and Instagram at doctor Wendy Walsh.
Listen to Mating Matters on the iHeartRadioapp or wherever you listen to your podcasts.
Why is it that when you usea dating app you swipe and swipe and
swipe, and after a while youget so bored you don't even want to
go out on a date. Thisis doctor Wendy Walsh. How dating apps
can actually bio hack your evolutionary programmingunless you use them correctly. This is
mating matters, romance, dating,falling in love. Choosing a romantic partner
(00:31):
to share your dinner table, yourbed, or your entire life is frankly
the most important decision a human canever make. This is doctor Wendy Walsh.
Welcome to mating Matters. It's whywe do what we do. In
this episode, dating apathy. Aredating apps changing the way we relate?
(00:53):
This is important because making the wrongdecision and be downright dangerous. Sorry to
break it to you, but poorromantic decisions can lead to poverty, physical
injury, or even death. Andthe greater risk lies with women. Did
you know that half of murdered womenare killed by their intimate partner. Every
(01:17):
day in America, three women arekilled by their lover. Yikes. Fortunately
that doesn't happen to the vast majorityof lovers. But finding a safe,
reliable, romantic partner who will keepyou out of poverty, stimulate you emotionally
and intellectually, and also be physicallyattractive. Well that's a tall order.
(01:42):
Long before there was the Internet andsmartphone dating apps, lovers mostly met through
a personal introduction or a chance meeting. In the movie Isn't It Romantic,
Rebel Wilson and Liam Hemsworth's characters havea chance encounter of their own. You're
quite beguiling, are you feeling?I'm feeling no. But then along came
a much more efficient way to meetpeople. Media. First, in the
(02:06):
nineteen eighties, it was print media. People took out small personal ads in
the back of newspapers and magazines.Remember the Pina Colada song by Rupert Holmes.
I read who was let? Yeah? Those two philandering lovers found each
(02:28):
other again through a personal ad.After personal ads, the Internet came along.
In the nineteen nineties movie You've GotMail, Meg Ryan and Tom Hanks
launched a silver screen email romance thatechoed what so many people were experiencing in
the nineteen nineties as their courtship beganto grow through technology. I turn on
my computer, I go online,welcome, and my breath catches in my
(02:53):
chest until I hear three little words. What is going on is an infidelity?
If you're involved with someone, email, move over AOL. Dating then
got fast, more real fast,from dating websites to dating apps, from
swishes to pings, likes, matches, messaging, and yes, ghosting,
(03:19):
Millions of people all over the worlddove into online dating. I want you
to know that there's plenty of goodabout online dating, and there's a bit
of bad too if you don't knowwhat you're doing. First of all,
dating apps make it easier to findthat special someone, that unicorn, so
to speak. But the technology itselfis not only changing the way we relate,
(03:43):
it could actually be changing our brains. But no matter what your fancy,
there is a never ending array ofdating websites and apps that appeal to
every niche market, from religious peopleto the polyamorous, from farmers to gay
people. I've been on and offusing zeus zsk am I pronouncing that right,
(04:04):
zis Christian Mingle when I was incollege as when I started using them,
started off with Tinder. So I'veused Tinder, I've used Bumble.
Those are the two that I've usedthe most. I used okay, Cupid
back in the day, and plentyof Fish as well. So bumble where
I've used Tinder, I've used Grinder, I've used another app called Chappy,
(04:25):
which is where you can be othergay men, and then online, I've
used Match, so I like thatfor a while. Um, and now
I'm on a dating app called Hingemost recently. Let's start with the good
news. People are indeed meeting andmarrying through online connections. So I went
on Match, and I was onMatch actually for about ten days. That's
(04:48):
a single mother with an eleven yearold daughter. She told me she had
just come out of an eighteen monthrelationship that one had begun as an introduction
through friends, but had gone sour. So she just decided to try online
dating. Yes, she met theperfect guy after only ten days. Her
criteria, though, was strict herperspective. Mate had to be a Christian,
(05:12):
lived nearby, and seemed like thekind of guy who could be a
good stepfather and mix well with herfamily. To determine that, she brought
her mother and daughter to first datesbecause we're the package. So I'm not
going to waste my time. Ifyou can't take us, forget it.
So I wanted him to know whathe's getting into, And my mom brought
her boyfriend and who happened to knowthe person I was meeting, and worked
(05:38):
out great, and forty five dayslater we actually got engaged. The wedding
will be us six and a halfmonths away. Wow, she's not alone.
A twenty thirteen study from researchers atthe University of Chicago and Harvard University
found that one third of American marriagesnow begin as online meetings, and that
(06:00):
marriages that began online were slightly lesslikely to result in a marital breakup,
and they were associated with slightly highermarital satisfaction. Of course, I should
add this is a self report internetstudy. While the large number of participants
nearly twenty thousand is quite impressive,questions remain about how honestly people answer self
report studies, or whether the personalitytypes of people who prefer online dating factor
(06:27):
in. Either way, this ispromising research. The other positive news about
online dating is that it's really goodfor subgroups who may have a very small
like minded dating pool in their owncommunities, ethnic and religious minorities, people
with disabilities, gender variances, andsexual orientation differences in fact, dating apps
began with a single app called Grinder. Grinder was designed to help gay men
(06:55):
find friends wherever they went. Formost gay people, online dating is far
more positive than negative. I thinkmostly positive because it's a you know,
for me, I don't want tomeet people in bars, you know,
and it's particularly you know, it'sharder in the gay world because you have
a safe place to meet people,right and those environments provide an easy place
(07:19):
and it's an easy way to meintroductions. So that's the good news.
People are actually meeting, meeting andcommitting through online meetings. And online dating
is particularly helpful for subgroups because ofpeople who don't have much dating opportunity,
either because they live in small communitiesor because there are a minority. Online
dating also saves a whole lot oftime. You don't have to get dressed
(07:40):
up, you don't need to spendmoney in time in bars and nightclubs,
and you can vet people before youwaste time on a date. You can
do a Google search or even afull background check. In some ways,
this makes online dating safer than meetinga random stranger in a dark club.
Now here's the bad news. Justlike a nightclub dating apps are filled with
(08:03):
people looking for long term relationships,short term relationships, affairs, and polyamorous
group fun and they're all lumped together, so it's kind of buyer beware.
Asking people what they're looking for andadvertising exactly what you'd like to find is
crucial, though people still like tolie. Oh and speaking of lying,
(08:24):
online dating sadly also hosts a lotof scammers. Scammers fall into one of
two categories. In category one arelonely people unhappy with their own lives who
pretend to be the person they wishthey were, and to conceal their fraud,
they're very skilled at providing excuses asto why they can't meet up in
the real world. These are calledcatfishes, and there's a whole documentary and
(08:46):
MTV series that shows some pretty shockingreveals. It's called Catfish. A young
guy named Dylan contacted me and Maxafter receiving an anonymous tip claiming his online
love Ali was actually an impostor.I'm just like dumbfounded. WHOA. I
don't even know how they got mynumber. Once we started digging, we
soon discovered that whoever Dylan was talkingto it actually catfished people before then there
(09:11):
are the criminal romance scammers. Thesepeople are often part of syndicates in countries
like Nigeria and Ghana. They preyon lonely people around the world by getting
them to fall in love with themonline, and eventually they ask for money.
I talked to him a few times. I mean we messaged every day,
Johnson says she and Cole engaged ina two year online relationship, but
(09:35):
never met in person. Over thecourse of their relationship, Johnson says she
gave Cole more than a million dollarsin increments. At this point, your
heart rules your head, and Iwas doing what my heart what wanted me
to do. In the most egregiouscases, romance scammers practice extortion. They
record people's most intimate conversations or evenvideotape skype sex and threatened posted online if
(10:01):
the victim doesn't pay the money.Tonight, the heartbreaking family tragedy. A
father from Yonkers is dead and hisfamily believes it's all because he was sucked
into an international romance and money scheme, causing him to lose everything and even
steal from relatives. That's the trickything about love. It's like a drug
and can make our brains do justabout anything to keep it Now, for
(10:22):
most people, online dating when usedsafely, that is with Google searches,
real world meetings, and the latestinvention use of social media that shows how
many friends you actually have in common. All that is a positive experience.
But there's one other shortcoming to onlinedating apps. They can become addictive.
Justin Garcia is the research director atthe Kinsey Institute and scientific advisor from match
(10:46):
dot com. One of the issuesseems to be that it's been what we
say is gamified, and that theapps they feel like a game, and
you can swipe through dozens or hundredsof pictures in a few minutes, and
that changes the way we're interacting withpotential partners or people that were assessing.
Many people like this forty year oldsingle father, fall prey to the lure
(11:09):
of a perfect, happy ending.Everyone wants to be wanted, and I
want people to be wanted. Iwant I love the romantic endings. I
believe in happy endings, and Imight go to my grave with that philosophy.
And I think that that's what thedating sites propose, is that happy
ending For this man. Scammers weren'tthe problem. It was the addictive quality
(11:31):
of dating apps that keeps one gluedto the app rather than dating in the
real world. It's caused by adelicious rush of the neuro hormone dopamine.
Every time there's a match or anew message promising romantic opportunity, your brain
gets a tiny hit. Since datingapps reward the brain at random intervals with
varying sizes of rewards, a messagefrom a particularly attractive person might bring more
(11:54):
dopamine than an average looking person.The apps act exactly like a slot machine,
trapping the brain in addictive systems ofrewards. Just like gambling, dating
apps work using classical conditioning. RememberPavlov and his dog, except the stimulus
isn't a bell and the reward isn'ta food treat. The stimulus with a
(12:18):
dating app is a swipe, andthe reward is a match. Here's justin
Garcia again. It turns out thatin those studies what works best is every
so often when you ring that bell, you don't give a treat to the
animal, and the test condition adog or at a fish. Now for
the dating apps, there's something similarthat's happening that you get this sort of
(12:39):
periodic reward that keeps you hooked.Exactly Like you said, it's like gambling
and and that's a mix of things. Part of that can be the algorithms
depending on the company and the appand the site, and part of it
is just sort of random choice thatyou're going through so many dozens or hundreds
of options. You'll occasionally find onethat you like, and occasionally we'll find
one that messages you or likes you, or you both right. I don't
(13:00):
know. It reminds me of aLas Vegas casino. There's no clocks,
there's there's so much diversion. Thefarther you get into the casino, the
harder it is to come on out. You probably get a bit of a
high from it, knowing it's it'sa way of seeking validation from other people.
You know, how many times didI swipe right today? How many
responses in you know, reciprocations ofthat did I receive if I swiped right?
(13:24):
You know, twenty five times?I got thirteen people that swipped right
too. I was like, ohman, I'm really feeling pretty good about
myself. And at the beginning itwas super fun, just like any normal
addiction, I think, and theneventually it kind of just took over.
And so I would spend time lookingat these sites while I was in traffic,
and there would be um, justa wash of I would say,
(13:46):
a wash of energy. If anybodyever responded it was, and there would
be like it was. It wasfun. It felt good to be acknowledged,
but slowly but surely, it feltlike it was taking my self esteem
apart. Besides being addictive, datingapps can also create something psychologists call a
paradox of choice. The more choiceis a human being is presented with,
(14:07):
the less likely they are to makea choice, and the less happy they
feel with the choices they make.There's a sense that there's an unlimited number
of options. You can go onan app and swipe for an hour,
especially if it's somewhere you know,like LA or New York or Miami population
density, you could swipe for hoursand hours and hours. And that changes
are a way that we interact withthe app, in part because it changes
(14:31):
the way we think about the peopleon the other side of that app.
We think, well, if they'renot perfect, there's another one, and
there's another one, and there's anotherone, and we often end up chasing
these what Rob Sternberg calls our lovestories. Right, we're chasing these ideal
notions of well, my partner hasto be exactly like this, and this
makes us less happy with our choice. Some scientists think it's because we sometimes
(14:54):
always have a foot out the door. We always think, well, if
this isn't great, there's another thousand. Besides being tricked by a paradox of
choice, dating apps also create asimilar phenomenon that Garcia calls cognitive overload.
We have a hard time deciding ohright, particularly went to say yes?
And in part that's when we've gotsuch a large menu or so many options,
(15:16):
we have a really difficult time makinga decision. Remember the young woman
who's been using dating apps since shewas in college, she's definitely beginning to
suffer from what I call dating apathy. I mean, even when I'm looking
for a movie to watch on Netflix, I get stressed out because I'm like,
oh god, there's so many choices. I don't want to watch anything
anymore. I'm done. I'm done. And then I'm like I throw down
(15:37):
the remote and I'm like, letme go do something else. But I
mean if I was like going toBlockbuster and I'm like, I'm like,
okay, I have to rent onemovie. I see all the movies right
here in my face. I knowwhere the new selections are, I know
where the old movies are. Likeit's easy, I can go in.
I get it, and I'm dedicatedto it because I worked a little bit
(15:58):
for that movie. If I'm anapp, I'm just swiping and I'm just
like, it doesn't matter. Somany choices didn't matter, even if you
do get a match. Next beginsa texting marathon. When people send me
those endless texts what I typically do. At some point, you just have
to cut it off right because itdoesn't go anywhere, and it's a waste
of time that you could spend elsewhere. Here's the man who told us he
(16:19):
was once addicted to dating apps.Online sites are time bandits, So once
the conversations start going, I wouldlose out on my own family time,
you know, my own people's time, my own tribe would lose out time
with me, even if I wasin the room, even if we were
at dinner, I wasn't. Iwas on I'm looking at the site.
(16:40):
Eventually, this man stopped using alldating apps. He even closed most of
his social media accounts. I hadto come to a moment of self realization.
So now I've completely taken down myInstagram. I'm in the midst of
taking down my Facebook, just youknow, for business purposes. I don't
want to live digitally at all now, like it wul feeling and if scammers,
(17:02):
addiction and paradox of choice aren't enough, many first time online daters become
rattled by a new dating social trendcalled ghosting. Ghosting is the worst.
It is the worst. It's whenyou really like somebody and then they just
all of a sudden, just falloff the face of the earth. It's
like, what happened to you?I know one guy, I met him
(17:23):
on an app. We really hada connection. We'd face time, we'd
snapchat, we text. We didnot meet yet though, so we were
about to meet, and I don'tknow what happened to him. He just
left. Even though she's young andaccustomed to dating app etiquette, she says
she'll never get used to being ghosted. I mean, it feels like you've
(17:45):
been rejected, you know, andespecially after you're like putting your effort into
somebody, it's like a slam inthe face, like You're just like,
what in the world is happening?And they'll block your phone number, your
Instagram, your face, but youwill not be able to tell anything about
what they're doing. And that's theworst feeling because you don't have answers,
And when you don't have answers,your mind wonders and you're just thinking,
(18:07):
like, is in me? AmI ugly? Am I annoying? Do
I? Am? I just aterrible person? I know a few things
about love. There are plenty ofhormones and neurotransmitters involved in the process of
love. The early lustful phase isdominated by testosterone and estrogen, but secure
attachment is a calmer, cozier drug, ruled by vasopressin and oxytocin. So
(18:30):
thinking about dating apps, I cameup with this theory. I mean,
everybody knows that the most unstable stagesof love are at the very beginning and
the end, and that's when wecrave dopamine and europeenephron to cope with those
feelings of uncertainty. Does he likeme? Are we a couple? Are
we breaking up? What's happening?The mill stage is when we securely settle
(18:52):
down into companion at love and experienceattachment with those yummy bursts of oxytocin and
vasopressin. My hypothesis is that datingapps trap people in the beginnings and endings
of relationships with sporadic bursts of dopamine. Not unlike that slot machine in Vegas.
Dating apps train humans to become addictedto new partners as a kind of
(19:12):
dopamine addiction, but many never getthe payoff of feelings of security that come
with oxytocin and vasopressin. There aremany people who get blasts of dopamine through
endless online interactions likes, matches,and messages with people they've never met in
the real world. Then they satisfytheir cravings for surges and testosterone and estrogen
(19:34):
and other hormones through online pornography,hacking their biochemistry with technology. I pose
my theory to the Kinsey Institutes doctorJustin Garcia that using the app alone and
then also the kind of texting relationships, multiple texting relationships that come out of
these apps, for many people,that's enough. It starts to create enough
(20:00):
dopamine that they literally don't need todate. Yeah, I think you're hit
the nail on the head I thinkthat's the that's a piece that no one's
talking about. That there's a numberof people that have swiping all day and
talking to a bunch of people.They're sort of getting satiated. They're sort
of getting the whether it's the intimateand sexual communication or just the social connections.
(20:22):
I think that we're starting to seea little bit of evidence and you're
you're ahead of the curve, orwe don't have the data yet to say
it, but I think you're right, that's what That's what everything is starting
to indicate. And there's something elseI think technology is doing to us.
I think dating apps can actually changeour brains, impacting our reward centers and
rewiring how we perceive the world andlove. For some this is the new
(20:45):
normal. It's a bizarre form ofbiohacking, really, and that you can
get these different types of social connectionsand intimate interactions and kind of feel Okay,
it's not necessarily fulfilling what many peoplewant in the long term, but
they can kind of ride it out. So why is it that some people
don't fall victim to this paradox ofchoice, this addictive quality, this biohack.
(21:11):
Maybe it's how they use the appto avoid the neurotraps. Remember the
gay man we spoke with earlier,He says he has great success with the
apps and has formed many long termrelationships and close friendships. Usually my objective
is when I hear from someone asas quickly as possible, meet them in
person, because that's when you know, right, you have to see them
in person so that I don't reallyget off on the endless sort of back
(21:34):
and forth conversation. I want toas soon as I sort of vet them
and make sure they're not a serialkiller, right, I want to meet
them in person. And remember thewoman who brought her mother and daughter to
first dates and met her fiance afterjust ten days online. Here's her advice
to others. A lot of itis luck, A lot of it is
it is I truly believe a numbersgame. But if everyone as the attitude,
(22:00):
you're responsible for your own happiness.There are a lot of people out
there who want a relationship, andit's just you know, trying to weed
out the people that you think maynot fit and just go for it and
just be safe and meet in apublic place and tell your friends where you're
at. Actually, I had twoonline dates before I met my fiance,
(22:23):
and I was there for fifteen minutes, and again my mom and daughter showed
up at the restaurant. I wouldadd to her advice, Get on the
phone quickly within a few days.If you like what you hear, meet
for a casual coffee soon after.If that goes well, then go off
the app and stop and focus andask your date to do the same.
(22:45):
You know you have to go throughand sift through what you're looking for,
but you have to be honest withwho you are and what you want and
hopefully find that same person that ison your wavelength. It's not that you
have to get married and be exclusiveright away, but if you're gonna,
if you want a date, you'vegot to psychologically get yourself in the mode
(23:07):
to do it. And there's awhole psychology and neurobiology of that focused attention
and thinking about that person and notbeing distracted. And if you do feel
you're becoming addicted to the apps,shut them off for a few months,
take a break. That's what theyoung man who believes he had become addicted
did. Man, the natural versionof meeting someone is just so much better.
(23:27):
It takes a lot more work,but it's why it gives it a
priceless feeling, whereas I just feltdollar store with the online dating sites.
And here's the best news of allabout online dating. Not only do one
third of American marriages begin online,but research shows that couples who reported that
they'd met online also reported greater maritalsatisfaction. Maybe those who have good relationship
(23:52):
skills will always find a good mateno matter where they swipe. My whole
life, I've been looking for thisideal person, and I was always trying
to put a round peg in asquare hole, trying to make it work,
and I kind of gave up,and then I met him. And
that's why we're engaged so quickly,is because when you spend your whole life
looking for this type of person youhave in your mind and you know how
(24:17):
you want to be loved, andyou finally find that, you're not going
to waste time and say there's someoneelse out there, because you know you
found it. You just put yourbest self out there, put yourself in
the best profile, put yourself lookingas nice as you possibly can, have
a smile on your face, havea positive message, and then see where
it goes from there. I havealways gotten a pretty solid response from that,
and I called that other person upand said, I think I've found
(24:41):
the love of my life. Thankyou for listening to Mating Matters. I'm
doctor Wendy Walsh with my producer BrookPeterson in our next episode, what is
Love for Real The bio psycho socialaspects of Love. Mating Matters with Doctor
(25:03):
Wendy Walsh is produced by iHeartMedia.It is researched, written and hosted by
me, Doctor Wendy Walsh, andproduced and edited by the Brooke Peterson.
Follow us on Twitter, Facebook,YouTube and Instagram at doctor Wendy Walsh.
Listen to Mating Matters on the iHeartRadioapp or wherever you listen to your podcasts.
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