November 12, 2025 • 24 mins
Paul Corvino sits down with the CEO of MlikPEP, Yin Woon Ran.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is CEOs You Should Know.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
It is Paul Corvino, Division President of iHeartMedia with another
episode of CEOs you Should Know. Today, I'm joined by
Yin Wound Ronnie, the CEO of Milk PEP, the organization
behind milk processing and education initiatives and famously known for
the iconic got Milk campaign. Welcome Yin.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Thanks so much for having me before we get.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Started, and we learned about your journey and how you
eventually became the CEO of this renowned organization. What I'd
like to do is a quick Q and a rapid
fire question which gets the mouth moving the brain work.
Are you ready to go have some fun?
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Yes, let's do it. Okay, Skier Beach, Vacation beach from Singapore.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Beatles are stones, Oh Beatles, But.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
That's a hard one.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Tom Brady or Michael Jordan, Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
I don't do sports kind of neither, sadly.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
How about Sean Connery or Daniel Craig.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Oh my, these are hard ones. Give me ah, Dina
Craig to go in.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Your milk cookies or donuts.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
It's both an option for cookies. I guess if I
had to pick, that is that is a tough choice.
That is a tough choice. No, anything is fine in
my book.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah, I agree with you on that. So let's let's
find that a little bit about you and how you
got to where you are. Where did you grow up.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I was born in Malaysia, but I grew up in
Singapore and I came to the States to go to university.
My undergraduate degree is from Yale.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Oh very nice up in New Haven. Indeed, good fuse.
So what did you study.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
I was an English and Chinese literature major. And I
always laugh about liberal arts degree is that it doesn't
teach you to do anything in particular, but it gives
you the confidence to believe you can learn anything.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
So many people sitting in your seat that I've interviewed
that are CEOs of all the different companies, I would
say the majority of them actually had Liberal Arts degrees.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Yeah, it's comforting.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
I know.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Sometimes I went on to get major businesses. I went
on to get a business degree, but I do appreciate
my undergraduate experience.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
So you went to Yale and get a liberal arts degree,
and did you go directly from there to get your
business degree?
Speaker 1 (02:04):
No. I joined an agency called Gray in the pre WPP.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Days and worked at a big agency.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yes, I worked at for fifteen years. And while I
was at Great, I was on Madison Avenue seven seven
seven Third Avenue, so for a long time. And then
they moved And while I was still working at Gray,
I got an executive MBA from starn and NYU.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
And what did you Stoll? What was your first job
at Gray?
Speaker 1 (02:26):
I was an assistant account executive from P and G Businesses,
working for a wonderful group director, Neil Christsberg. And frankly,
being a P and G at comperson was wonderful foundational training.
I'm really grateful for that.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
And what accounts were you working on?
Speaker 1 (02:40):
I started off working on Downey Fabric software. I worked
on panteen twice. I worked on Crisco and Chief before
they sold the businesses to the jam Smucker Company.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
How many years were you at Gray?
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Fifteen?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
So fifteen years at Gray and you worked up what
were the levels.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
That you I became? I think my last job there,
I was an SVP for a long time. I was
the youngest vice president they ever.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Had on the account side.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
On the account side, yes, and then I have a
weird career because I became a president well ever being
an EVP. I became a CEO of while ever being
a CMO. So, but my last job at Gray was
as the SVP. I worked on my last gig there,
I worked on GSK businesses. But I worked on a
lot of things while I was there.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Okay, so you were there for fifteen years, going up
the ranks in a very traditional manner at that point.
Were there any mentors in your life that made a difference,
because that's something that I hear quite a bit when
I talked to CEOs.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Yeah, I was very lucky. I had two, probably, but
one Maureen Muldaari. I worked for her for ten years.
I've credited her publicly many times when I she was
my second big boss. You know, she was already very seen.
I went work for her, and then after I went
back to P ANDG for a while, I came back
to her. But she was I was lucky because she
(03:57):
was my boss. She was my mentor, but she was
importantly also a sponsor. And I think you probably have
heard people talk about the difference between a mentor and
a sponsor because she mentored me. Yeah, I mean she
mentored me in terms of giving me support advice, et cetera.
And she was still friends to to this day, many
years into my career. But she was also a sponsor
because she was able to give me assignments and promotions
(04:20):
and raises by being my advocate and rooms that I
was not in. So it was very lucky to work
for her for a long time. The funny thing is
when I finally stopped working for her for a moment,
I had no political skills, right, because she had basically
like looked after me for so long, and so then
I was thrown out of the nests and I had
to learn to fly on my own with.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
The political orders within a corporation.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yeah, So we always laugh about it today because I'm like, Maureen,
you just threw me out of the nest. She said,
I knew you could fly. I knew you could fly.
But there was some definitely learning pains fairly late in
my career because I was lucky to have one.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I've been fortunate enough to have some good mentors over
the years also, and people always ask me how did
you get a mentor ask you that question because there
is no real clear answer. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
I think there's two categories, right. I've probably had the
most success with informal mentors, with people that you meet organically,
either you have a direct relationship with them or the
part of the company that you're in, you have some
affinity and you just develop ideally a very organic relationship
that's supportive and they're interested in helping you, you're interested
in being helped. And I think there are some formal
(05:24):
mentorship programs. You know, different programs or ergs, associations have them.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
It's quite the same.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
There's always a little harder, I think because there's a
little bit more of an artificial creator one having participated
in many I think there's a role for both. But
my mentors have always come into my life organically.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Yeah, I think that's the way this is for most people.
And there are things that you're doing that bring a
mentor towards you. They've got to see something in you
before there before someone's going to meant to you. So
now you're a senior vice president at Gray, one of
the biggest agencies at the time in the industry, and
you've been there for fifty teen years, what's the next move?
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yeah, it's interesting because again I wish my career looks
more planful than it is. But I essentially was recruited
out of Gray to become the president of Universal McCann
or UM, which is part of the IPG media brands universe.
They wanted a president I think with deep client service orientation.
(06:22):
You know, it sounds quaint now, but it was a
time when media agencies were fighting, I think, to go
more upstream to be business advisors, and so they were
interested in someone who wasn't necessarily from a media background.
Do I been around media my whole career. So the
internal recruiting person at IPG was in fact my first
HR business partner at Gray, So we had stayed in
(06:44):
touch for fifteen years. Literally, she's known me since I
was an assistant AA, and so she was in charge
of the search. And so the hiring manager, Jackie Kelly,
whom you probably know from the business, was looking for
someone and so Mallory remembered me and reached out to me.
And so then I interviewed and was recruited out of
my grade situation because I wasn't active. It was a
position the president of UM North America of Universal.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
We can yeah, and that's a big job. Now, now
you're running a big job. You've got up through the ranks,
You've got more and more people reporting to you. How
do you stay hands on in the business and at
the same time run such a big organization.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
It's a great question. I mean, I'm a big believer
in culture building, and so one of the ways a
senior leader can extend the influence is through investing in
cultural norms and modeling that, communicating that to your directs,
enforcing it. So I was lucky. I mean, Jackie already
had built a wonderful organization. She had a job before me,
So I was inheriting I think, a pretty healthy culture,
(07:46):
but really investing in culture and systems that help extend
your reach. One of the things I tried to do
a lot of was, you know, just making sure I
was getting around to the offices and being visible. We
have five offices in North America, so in addition to
calling on clients and being very present for some key clients,
it was important to be a visible leader. I also
started a weekly kind of internal email newsletter. It's not
(08:09):
even a newsletter, it was just an email. It was
called It's the End Again, And I wrote it personally,
like I didn't delegate it to a commons person. I
would just send an email every week to the whole
organization of what was top of mind for me. Sometimes
it was new news or bus new business news, but
a lot of it was just like what was on
my mind, so people could get to know what was
important to me and to model that. But it is
(08:31):
a challenge as a leader, how do you extend your
impact beyond it direct?
Speaker 2 (08:34):
It's the same even when I talked to entrepreneurs who
have you one restaurant and then all of a sudden
they've got five to ten, one hundred. How do you
maintain the quality and how do you do that? And
that's always a challenge, And usually the answer here is
hiring the right people is sort of key to that. Also,
I want to ask you the industry has changed so much.
I don't even know what the business model is anymore.
(08:56):
For a traditional agency, it's no longer the standard. They
make their money on fifteen percent media. They've got separate
media divisions from the creative. You've got agencies out there
pushing digital because they make more profit with digital, and
so they're not buying traditional they're not serving their clients
(09:19):
as well as they should. Where do you see the
industry going I mean.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
It's interesting, like the death of the agency holding company
model has been discussed probably most of your career, and
yet they still are here, you know. I think it's
just a state of constant evolution. I mean, I think digital,
particularly all the waves of digital and mobile and programmatic
and tech. I believe the agencies will continue to evolve. Obviously,
AI is bringing a holding a revolution. It's interesting. I
(09:44):
do see them right now with what you can see
from the headlines. There's definitely some winners and losers, and
I think people who invested earlier in digital and technology
are probably doing better. I mean, as now someone who
has been a client for you know, a third of
my career, two thirds on the agency side. I do
think some fundamental things are still important. I think, frankly,
(10:05):
the more when agencies start to act as principles and
not as agents for clients, I think it kind of
erodes the trust level. And I'm old school in off
as I mentioned, I'm being a patent compersson, like you
really were trained to be an extension of your client team,
to act with their business interest in heart. And I
get the economics of agencies, particularly major agencies and trading
and all that, but I do feel like there's an
(10:26):
erosion of trust. And you see, I think right now
the rise of a new generation of independence because sometimes
scale is not as important as it used to be,
particularly on the creative side. So maybe the next Ogilvie
and Maylors are being born, the next grades are being born.
But I do I do think agency hood the companies
are full smart people try to do the right thing,
and that evolution is just going to say sho.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
I see it a lot. I see you go to
Can every year for the can Leons Festival, and this
year I heard a lot of the agency people talking
about how they did too much one on one advertising.
I think it was a former CMO of Nike. He said,
you know, what's the problem with Nike. What's happening to them?
He said, they went too digital, they went two to
(11:08):
one on one and they forgot about the brand. Is
that something that you see happening.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
I think that's true. I think the Benjamin is starting
to swing back because if if we're going to Can
or Na or four as over the last ten or
fifteen years, I think there was a time where it
was all about programmatic, all about one on one all
about data. I think the last couple of cycles, I
think people are recognizing we need a better balance. They're
both important and in fact, I hate that distinction between
(11:33):
brand and performance because they both have a role. And
if you're familiar with lesbian A's worked along and short
of it right, He's done a lot of quantitative proof
that the ratio between quote unquote brand and quote unquote
performance should be sixty to forty and there still is
a role.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Very sixty forty.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Which way sixty brand forty.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Being in the radio business, would I like hearing that,
especially with such a We're such a big reach organization.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Which still matters a harm persent.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
So let me ask you at this point, now you
are the president of University ACAM, one of the biggest
agencies on the planet. How did you eventually go from
there to the client side?
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Yeah? I left IPG, you know, amidst one of the
many restructurings with my role was becoming a lot more
product driven and as someone who was not really a
media person, you know, I took a package from them.
I traveled the world of my family for eight weeks.
I came back and.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
What do you resistant?
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Oh goodness, that's a good question. Twenty twelve probably something
like that, and I was very lucky to have that
luxury to do that. I came back and I spent
time with my executive coach, Rob Elliott from Hondera, who
has been a huge influence in my life, and we
basically he locked me in the conference room and he's like,
what is important to you? What do you want your
next job? Which is actually a harder question to answer
(12:46):
than I realized.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yes it is.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Again, you know the power of networks. Someone WPP Network
who was a Cambal agency. There are global CMO Mike
Snakrab was looking for head of integrated marketing to run
some COEs so' Shelley Diamond introduced me to him and
to the recruiting process, and that's how I went to
client side. But I didn't start off with some people
like I must go client side, I must go client side.
(13:08):
I was really looking for a role where I could
have impact where it was about integrated marketing and cam
Wells just take those boxes. That happened to be client side.
And so that was a successful transition for me.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
And so what did you find the different being on
that side?
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Oh, my goodness. I don't know where to start. I mean,
I was lucky because the job was a lot about
sort of technical expertise and centers of excellence. The thing
I learned, which was very humbling as an agency person,
even someone who prided herself on being a business partner,
was I decided I worked out the agency c marketing
organizations a little bit through a keyhole, and so you
have this impression of like, oh, the CMO could do X,
(13:45):
Y and Z, if only they were braver, if only
they had more money, And you realized that CMO was
just one part of these bigger, particularly manufacturing organizations, and
they're accountable to so many more stakeholders beyond the end.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
In all your years in the other side, you saw
them one way.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
I just think the king of the castle and you
should go up inside. You're like, oh, supply chain maybe
is more powerful. Finance definitely more powerful. I mean, it
was just very humbling, and I always preach this to
my former agency people.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
All found that going to I went to one side
and then back to the other side, and I was
better back on this side of it. After understanding what
that person goes through, yes, and being in a position
where I am as a as a president division president,
I also am sold a lot of things people come
to me, and so by being on one side at
the desk, I also understand and it helps me on
(14:34):
my side.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Yeah, I meanink. Right now, I'm managing agency, so I said,
as Campbell's, and now managing agencies as a client. I
do think my many years of agencies and hopefully it
makes me an.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
A fair you at Cammel's. Five years, five years at Cammel's.
So now it's around twenty seventeen or so, is that
when you came over to MILKPEP.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yeah, Denise Morrison, the wonderful CEO of Campbell's, she laughed
kind of suddenly. So a lot of the leadership team
she had built also left with her. But similarly, I
was building a consulting practice. I was pretty happy to
do that. And then they were recruiting for the role
I have now. I was sent an email in a
public database by a wonderful recruiter called David Weiser, and
(15:15):
I looked at it and I was like, that sounds
like a cool job for somebody, But I wasn't really
going to do it. I was about to sign a
contract with a consulting firm and I had five friends
and forty hours for the email to me, and so
this job sounds like you you should probably call them.
So I called them and went through the process with them,
and I started here about October of twenty nineteen, right
before pandemic.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Oh, what an interesting time to start a new job.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Tell me about it. So, yeah, what drew you.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
To the company. What was it about Milk PEP that said, Yeah,
that's an organization I'd like to work for.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
I mean, first and foremost in the recruiting process, I
was lucky to meet several board members, many of whom
I still work with today. And I did not know
a lot about agriculture or dairy, but these were like
good human beings, like who believed in a wholesome product
that was nutritious, affordable, accessible, and so I was just
really drawn to the culture of the people that I met.
Most Part one, Part two. Frankly, the challenge seemed kind
(16:10):
of impossible. You know, milk had been in some slight
decline and then a steep of decline for decades, and
it just seemed like, how do you help make a
difference to doing that? And as my husband would say,
I love impossible challenges. I love to run into the fire.
Because I kept saying to him, I can't take this
job because it's impossible. He said, well, that's why you
should take the job, because you love heart thorning problems.
(16:32):
You know, got milk obviously, as you said in the beginning,
as one of the most iconic campaigns in the world
in the US, and so as an advertising door student,
you know advocate to be able to be part of
that legacy and heritage obviously was also interesting.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
What is the function? What is the goal of milk PEP?
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Yeah, I mean PEP stands for a process or education program,
but really our charter is very singular. It's meant to
increase the per capital consumption of dairy milk, with milk
basically only that, not the all the other forms of dairy.
Because it had been experiencing a long decline, the industry
got together and worked in Congress to create basically a
(17:11):
congressional charter whether they're assessed or taxed on the milk
that is processed, creating basically a war chests for US
to spend on advertising and promotion to encourage Americans to
drink more milk.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
And how are you measured your success?
Speaker 1 (17:26):
You know, basically on how much milk is processed, and
that's how a budget is created for every hundred weight
of gallon twenty CENTSUS assessed creating a war chats about
eighty million dollars, and success US is having Americans drink
more milk.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
And I think I so recently that milk is making
a comeback. It is, and I guess you've got a
lot to do with that.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Yes, I mean, MILKPEP definitely played a role. I think
we are very focused on sentiment and attitude and upper
funnel things, but frankly, the whole industry contributed to it.
Twenty twenty four was the first time that milk has
grown in fifteen years. But a lot of things went right.
But I think we are very pleased with the changing
sort of popular narrative about milk because when I walked
(18:09):
in the door, you might remember five years ago, all
the headlines in major pubs were pretty negative. You know,
Darry was taking a lot of heat, environmental issues, oats,
oat and almond and all the alternative milks were kind
of grabbing their headlines. I'm proud to report that this cycle.
The last couple of years, we've seen a much more
balanced upon.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
What turns it around?
Speaker 1 (18:31):
I mean I think probably milk PEPs investment and cultural
relevance helped. I think it's a little bit of trends.
As you know, cycles common cycles go. Frankly, the rise
of whole milk has been very helpful. You know, fat
went from being an enemy to a positive, So trends.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
There was a lot of misinformation about milk, yes.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
I mean there still is. I mean there are definitely
are parts of the population that reject milk for reasons
that always not always is based in science. I think
the industry has done a better job of organizing itself
to get some of the more scientific truths out there.
But honestly, this sounds like a cop out from advertising person,
but some of it is just a vibe. Like mil
PEP really tried to invest in that balance between fact
(19:12):
and perception and to bring interesting celebrities back to bear
to do great interesting platforms and properties that just milk
seem more contemporary, more relevant, more part of today's cultural narrative.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
So how do you reach the market? Yeah, I know
you have a lot of events that you have you've
got these marathons or running events. Tell us a little
bit about that.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yeah, we have a pretty i would say robust of
omni channel plan, a very big investment and always on
digital online video CTV, all the normal pieces. But we
also sponsor or have built from the ground up two
major events. We made a commitment to support female in sports.
Mean milk has been in sports, you know for ten
thousand years. Honestly, nol PEP has been supporting athletes for
(19:56):
the thirty years of existence. We made a bigger bet
on emails given our business needs. Where as you can imagine,
women are still the primary shopper, the primary influencer on children.
So we started off actually by hacking the New York
City Marathon. We were not an official sponsor, another sports
Drink was, but we supported all the female runners of
(20:16):
the twenty twenty two New York City Marathon, created a
great event for them, exposed and almost twenty five percent
of those women's signed up, and we were really touched
by the sort of the outprogram support. Then the following
year we did the same thing at three national races,
twelve local races, and we realized, to my surprise, there
was no full like marathon in the country for just women.
(20:38):
Lots of five k's, ten ks, half marathons, and so
we sort of opportunity to build a race by women
for women from the ground up, So we launched every
Women's Marathon as it's called in twenty twenty four in Savannah.
We were prising it in Scottsdale just a few weeks
in November, and it was a huge undertaking. It was
(20:58):
a year round effort where we were really creating a
community of runners explaining how milk can feel a performance journey.
And the first event was a huge success, so excited
to replicate it this year. Our second major platform is
in e sports, similarly a lot of inequity and competitive gaming,
so we created from the ground up the largest Fortnite
tournament only for female players. Again October of last year.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Really focused on women.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
And so the next event actually is happening as we speak.
It's kicking off today. The tournament will be tomorrow as
part of TwitchCon. So we have had many qualifiers and
we have one hundred young women competitive gamers coming to
our tournament and trying to address some of the inequity
they face. In fact, the top paid female competitive player
(21:48):
in America makes as much money as a five hundredth
male player, So the inequity in esports is probably even
worse than in regular sports. So we're trying to do
our part and again positioning ourselves as the performance strength
for gamers with key benefits like focus, hydration, recovery, because
opposition is the esports are also sports.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
What would you essentially just what you just said about focus,
hydration and recovery is what are the major that what's
the major value proposition of milk today?
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Oh my, it's a great question. One of the blessings
of milk if you go to our website Gonna Need
Milk dot Com, is it has so many natural benefits.
So it's thirteen essential nutrients that create literally a plathora
of like a dozen or so benefit errors. Having worked
in CpG food for a long time, it's unusual to
be able to claim the number of things we can. Obviously,
(22:38):
the protein is a big part of it right now.
So protein creates muscles, It helps kids grow to the
right height. The balance between the protein, fat and sugar
helps endurance athletes and runners recover after races. It hydrates
better than water, It helps build strong bones. I mean,
it is really like swimming in a benefit and I'll
see a wonderful benefit. So based on the audience and
(23:01):
the platform, we tend to highlight a bunch. We have
some new research that shows that also contains nutrients that
can help with brain health, can help with depressure and anxiety,
can help with focus. So it is almost and I
don't say this lightly because I've been in marketing a long.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Time, it's a wonderfood.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
It's like a superfood. It's like the original superfood. It
is all natural, it is not fortified for the most part,
and it's just it is a lot of bang for
the buck. And especially in this environment where I think
affordability is top of mind, it's a huge blessing to
have a product that has this many benefits that you
can surface and frankly, we have the opposite problem of
trying to figureut where to focus our dollars.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Let me ask you, if you could talk to your
twenty one year old self graduating just coming out of Yale,
what advice would you give that twenty one year old
on how to eventually wind up in a position like
you're in today.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
I think it's a great question. I mean, my journey
has been a lot about maybe learning to be more
offut it on betting on myself. And I think I
was raised in Asia. You know, I'm a third child.
I think I spent a long time trying to meet
the needs of others and it's great to be a
(24:12):
service oriented. I hope I always will be. On my journey,
I've learned to have more confidence than myself and to
better my own abilities, my own intuition, my own decision making.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Well, thank you so much. Really enjoyed this conversation. Once again,
we're talking with Yin Wound Ronnie, the CEO of Milk PEP. Again,
that's the organization behind milk processing and education initiatives. Again,
they were famously known for the Got Milk campaign. Thank
you so much for joining us. This is Paul Corvino,
Division President of iHeartMedia saying thanks for listening to another
(24:46):
episode of CEOs you Should Know. Listen to CEOs you
Should Know on the iHeartRadio app.
This is CEOs You Should Know.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
It is Paul Corvino, Division President of iHeartMedia with another
episode of CEOs you Should Know. Today, I'm joined by
Yin Wound Ronnie, the CEO of Milk PEP, the organization
behind milk processing and education initiatives and famously known for
the iconic got Milk campaign. Welcome Yin.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Thanks so much for having me before we get.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Started, and we learned about your journey and how you
eventually became the CEO of this renowned organization. What I'd
like to do is a quick Q and a rapid
fire question which gets the mouth moving the brain work.
Are you ready to go have some fun?
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Yes, let's do it. Okay, Skier Beach, Vacation beach from Singapore.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Beatles are stones, Oh Beatles, But.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
That's a hard one.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Tom Brady or Michael Jordan, Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
I don't do sports kind of neither, sadly.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
How about Sean Connery or Daniel Craig.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Oh my, these are hard ones. Give me ah, Dina
Craig to go in.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Your milk cookies or donuts.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
It's both an option for cookies. I guess if I
had to pick, that is that is a tough choice.
That is a tough choice. No, anything is fine in
my book.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah, I agree with you on that. So let's let's
find that a little bit about you and how you
got to where you are. Where did you grow up.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
I was born in Malaysia, but I grew up in
Singapore and I came to the States to go to university.
My undergraduate degree is from Yale.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Oh very nice up in New Haven. Indeed, good fuse.
So what did you study.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
I was an English and Chinese literature major. And I
always laugh about liberal arts degree is that it doesn't
teach you to do anything in particular, but it gives
you the confidence to believe you can learn anything.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
So many people sitting in your seat that I've interviewed
that are CEOs of all the different companies, I would
say the majority of them actually had Liberal Arts degrees.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Yeah, it's comforting.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
I know.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Sometimes I went on to get major businesses. I went
on to get a business degree, but I do appreciate
my undergraduate experience.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
So you went to Yale and get a liberal arts degree,
and did you go directly from there to get your
business degree?
Speaker 1 (02:04):
No. I joined an agency called Gray in the pre WPP.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Days and worked at a big agency.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yes, I worked at for fifteen years. And while I
was at Great, I was on Madison Avenue seven seven
seven Third Avenue, so for a long time. And then
they moved And while I was still working at Gray,
I got an executive MBA from starn and NYU.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
And what did you Stoll? What was your first job
at Gray?
Speaker 1 (02:26):
I was an assistant account executive from P and G Businesses,
working for a wonderful group director, Neil Christsberg. And frankly,
being a P and G at comperson was wonderful foundational training.
I'm really grateful for that.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
And what accounts were you working on?
Speaker 1 (02:40):
I started off working on Downey Fabric software. I worked
on panteen twice. I worked on Crisco and Chief before
they sold the businesses to the jam Smucker Company.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
How many years were you at Gray?
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Fifteen?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
So fifteen years at Gray and you worked up what
were the levels.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
That you I became? I think my last job there,
I was an SVP for a long time. I was
the youngest vice president they ever.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Had on the account side.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
On the account side, yes, and then I have a
weird career because I became a president well ever being
an EVP. I became a CEO of while ever being
a CMO. So, but my last job at Gray was
as the SVP. I worked on my last gig there,
I worked on GSK businesses. But I worked on a
lot of things while I was there.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Okay, so you were there for fifteen years, going up
the ranks in a very traditional manner at that point.
Were there any mentors in your life that made a difference,
because that's something that I hear quite a bit when
I talked to CEOs.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Yeah, I was very lucky. I had two, probably, but
one Maureen Muldaari. I worked for her for ten years.
I've credited her publicly many times when I she was
my second big boss. You know, she was already very seen.
I went work for her, and then after I went
back to P ANDG for a while, I came back
to her. But she was I was lucky because she
(03:57):
was my boss. She was my mentor, but she was
importantly also a sponsor. And I think you probably have
heard people talk about the difference between a mentor and
a sponsor because she mentored me. Yeah, I mean she
mentored me in terms of giving me support advice, et cetera.
And she was still friends to to this day, many
years into my career. But she was also a sponsor
because she was able to give me assignments and promotions
(04:20):
and raises by being my advocate and rooms that I
was not in. So it was very lucky to work
for her for a long time. The funny thing is
when I finally stopped working for her for a moment,
I had no political skills, right, because she had basically
like looked after me for so long, and so then
I was thrown out of the nests and I had
to learn to fly on my own with.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
The political orders within a corporation.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yeah, So we always laugh about it today because I'm like, Maureen,
you just threw me out of the nest. She said,
I knew you could fly. I knew you could fly.
But there was some definitely learning pains fairly late in
my career because I was lucky to have one.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I've been fortunate enough to have some good mentors over
the years also, and people always ask me how did
you get a mentor ask you that question because there
is no real clear answer. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
I think there's two categories, right. I've probably had the
most success with informal mentors, with people that you meet organically,
either you have a direct relationship with them or the
part of the company that you're in, you have some
affinity and you just develop ideally a very organic relationship
that's supportive and they're interested in helping you, you're interested
in being helped. And I think there are some formal
(05:24):
mentorship programs. You know, different programs or ergs, associations have them.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
It's quite the same.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
There's always a little harder, I think because there's a
little bit more of an artificial creator one having participated
in many I think there's a role for both. But
my mentors have always come into my life organically.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Yeah, I think that's the way this is for most people.
And there are things that you're doing that bring a
mentor towards you. They've got to see something in you
before there before someone's going to meant to you. So
now you're a senior vice president at Gray, one of
the biggest agencies at the time in the industry, and
you've been there for fifty teen years, what's the next move?
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yeah, it's interesting because again I wish my career looks
more planful than it is. But I essentially was recruited
out of Gray to become the president of Universal McCann
or UM, which is part of the IPG media brands universe.
They wanted a president I think with deep client service orientation.
(06:22):
You know, it sounds quaint now, but it was a
time when media agencies were fighting, I think, to go
more upstream to be business advisors, and so they were
interested in someone who wasn't necessarily from a media background.
Do I been around media my whole career. So the
internal recruiting person at IPG was in fact my first
HR business partner at Gray, So we had stayed in
(06:44):
touch for fifteen years. Literally, she's known me since I
was an assistant AA, and so she was in charge
of the search. And so the hiring manager, Jackie Kelly,
whom you probably know from the business, was looking for
someone and so Mallory remembered me and reached out to me.
And so then I interviewed and was recruited out of
my grade situation because I wasn't active. It was a
position the president of UM North America of Universal.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
We can yeah, and that's a big job. Now, now
you're running a big job. You've got up through the ranks,
You've got more and more people reporting to you. How
do you stay hands on in the business and at
the same time run such a big organization.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
It's a great question. I mean, I'm a big believer
in culture building, and so one of the ways a
senior leader can extend the influence is through investing in
cultural norms and modeling that, communicating that to your directs,
enforcing it. So I was lucky. I mean, Jackie already
had built a wonderful organization. She had a job before me,
So I was inheriting I think, a pretty healthy culture,
(07:46):
but really investing in culture and systems that help extend
your reach. One of the things I tried to do
a lot of was, you know, just making sure I
was getting around to the offices and being visible. We
have five offices in North America, so in addition to
calling on clients and being very present for some key clients,
it was important to be a visible leader. I also
started a weekly kind of internal email newsletter. It's not
(08:09):
even a newsletter, it was just an email. It was
called It's the End Again, And I wrote it personally,
like I didn't delegate it to a commons person. I
would just send an email every week to the whole
organization of what was top of mind for me. Sometimes
it was new news or bus new business news, but
a lot of it was just like what was on
my mind, so people could get to know what was
important to me and to model that. But it is
(08:31):
a challenge as a leader, how do you extend your
impact beyond it direct?
Speaker 2 (08:34):
It's the same even when I talked to entrepreneurs who
have you one restaurant and then all of a sudden
they've got five to ten, one hundred. How do you
maintain the quality and how do you do that? And
that's always a challenge, And usually the answer here is
hiring the right people is sort of key to that. Also,
I want to ask you the industry has changed so much.
I don't even know what the business model is anymore.
(08:56):
For a traditional agency, it's no longer the standard. They
make their money on fifteen percent media. They've got separate
media divisions from the creative. You've got agencies out there
pushing digital because they make more profit with digital, and
so they're not buying traditional they're not serving their clients
(09:19):
as well as they should. Where do you see the
industry going I mean.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
It's interesting, like the death of the agency holding company
model has been discussed probably most of your career, and
yet they still are here, you know. I think it's
just a state of constant evolution. I mean, I think digital,
particularly all the waves of digital and mobile and programmatic
and tech. I believe the agencies will continue to evolve. Obviously,
AI is bringing a holding a revolution. It's interesting. I
(09:44):
do see them right now with what you can see
from the headlines. There's definitely some winners and losers, and
I think people who invested earlier in digital and technology
are probably doing better. I mean, as now someone who
has been a client for you know, a third of
my career, two thirds on the agency side. I do
think some fundamental things are still important. I think, frankly,
(10:05):
the more when agencies start to act as principles and
not as agents for clients, I think it kind of
erodes the trust level. And I'm old school in off
as I mentioned, I'm being a patent compersson, like you
really were trained to be an extension of your client team,
to act with their business interest in heart. And I
get the economics of agencies, particularly major agencies and trading
and all that, but I do feel like there's an
(10:26):
erosion of trust. And you see, I think right now
the rise of a new generation of independence because sometimes
scale is not as important as it used to be,
particularly on the creative side. So maybe the next Ogilvie
and Maylors are being born, the next grades are being born.
But I do I do think agency hood the companies
are full smart people try to do the right thing,
and that evolution is just going to say sho.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
I see it a lot. I see you go to
Can every year for the can Leons Festival, and this
year I heard a lot of the agency people talking
about how they did too much one on one advertising.
I think it was a former CMO of Nike. He said,
you know, what's the problem with Nike. What's happening to them?
He said, they went too digital, they went two to
(11:08):
one on one and they forgot about the brand. Is
that something that you see happening.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
I think that's true. I think the Benjamin is starting
to swing back because if if we're going to Can
or Na or four as over the last ten or
fifteen years, I think there was a time where it
was all about programmatic, all about one on one all
about data. I think the last couple of cycles, I
think people are recognizing we need a better balance. They're
both important and in fact, I hate that distinction between
(11:33):
brand and performance because they both have a role. And
if you're familiar with lesbian A's worked along and short
of it right, He's done a lot of quantitative proof
that the ratio between quote unquote brand and quote unquote
performance should be sixty to forty and there still is
a role.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Very sixty forty.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Which way sixty brand forty.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Being in the radio business, would I like hearing that,
especially with such a We're such a big reach organization.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Which still matters a harm persent.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
So let me ask you at this point, now you
are the president of University ACAM, one of the biggest
agencies on the planet. How did you eventually go from
there to the client side?
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Yeah? I left IPG, you know, amidst one of the
many restructurings with my role was becoming a lot more
product driven and as someone who was not really a
media person, you know, I took a package from them.
I traveled the world of my family for eight weeks.
I came back and.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
What do you resistant?
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Oh goodness, that's a good question. Twenty twelve probably something
like that, and I was very lucky to have that
luxury to do that. I came back and I spent
time with my executive coach, Rob Elliott from Hondera, who
has been a huge influence in my life, and we
basically he locked me in the conference room and he's like,
what is important to you? What do you want your
next job? Which is actually a harder question to answer
(12:46):
than I realized.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yes it is.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Again, you know the power of networks. Someone WPP Network
who was a Cambal agency. There are global CMO Mike
Snakrab was looking for head of integrated marketing to run
some COEs so' Shelley Diamond introduced me to him and
to the recruiting process, and that's how I went to
client side. But I didn't start off with some people
like I must go client side, I must go client side.
(13:08):
I was really looking for a role where I could
have impact where it was about integrated marketing and cam
Wells just take those boxes. That happened to be client side.
And so that was a successful transition for me.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
And so what did you find the different being on
that side?
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Oh, my goodness. I don't know where to start. I mean,
I was lucky because the job was a lot about
sort of technical expertise and centers of excellence. The thing
I learned, which was very humbling as an agency person,
even someone who prided herself on being a business partner,
was I decided I worked out the agency c marketing
organizations a little bit through a keyhole, and so you
have this impression of like, oh, the CMO could do X,
(13:45):
Y and Z, if only they were braver, if only
they had more money, And you realized that CMO was
just one part of these bigger, particularly manufacturing organizations, and
they're accountable to so many more stakeholders beyond the end.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
In all your years in the other side, you saw
them one way.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
I just think the king of the castle and you
should go up inside. You're like, oh, supply chain maybe
is more powerful. Finance definitely more powerful. I mean, it
was just very humbling, and I always preach this to
my former agency people.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
All found that going to I went to one side
and then back to the other side, and I was
better back on this side of it. After understanding what
that person goes through, yes, and being in a position
where I am as a as a president division president,
I also am sold a lot of things people come
to me, and so by being on one side at
the desk, I also understand and it helps me on
(14:34):
my side.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Yeah, I meanink. Right now, I'm managing agency, so I said,
as Campbell's, and now managing agencies as a client. I
do think my many years of agencies and hopefully it
makes me an.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
A fair you at Cammel's. Five years, five years at Cammel's.
So now it's around twenty seventeen or so, is that
when you came over to MILKPEP.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yeah, Denise Morrison, the wonderful CEO of Campbell's, she laughed
kind of suddenly. So a lot of the leadership team
she had built also left with her. But similarly, I
was building a consulting practice. I was pretty happy to
do that. And then they were recruiting for the role
I have now. I was sent an email in a
public database by a wonderful recruiter called David Weiser, and
(15:15):
I looked at it and I was like, that sounds
like a cool job for somebody, But I wasn't really
going to do it. I was about to sign a
contract with a consulting firm and I had five friends
and forty hours for the email to me, and so
this job sounds like you you should probably call them.
So I called them and went through the process with them,
and I started here about October of twenty nineteen, right
before pandemic.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Oh, what an interesting time to start a new job.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Tell me about it. So, yeah, what drew you.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
To the company. What was it about Milk PEP that said, Yeah,
that's an organization I'd like to work for.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
I mean, first and foremost in the recruiting process, I
was lucky to meet several board members, many of whom
I still work with today. And I did not know
a lot about agriculture or dairy, but these were like
good human beings, like who believed in a wholesome product
that was nutritious, affordable, accessible, and so I was just
really drawn to the culture of the people that I met.
Most Part one, Part two. Frankly, the challenge seemed kind
(16:10):
of impossible. You know, milk had been in some slight
decline and then a steep of decline for decades, and
it just seemed like, how do you help make a
difference to doing that? And as my husband would say,
I love impossible challenges. I love to run into the fire.
Because I kept saying to him, I can't take this
job because it's impossible. He said, well, that's why you
should take the job, because you love heart thorning problems.
(16:32):
You know, got milk obviously, as you said in the beginning,
as one of the most iconic campaigns in the world
in the US, and so as an advertising door student,
you know advocate to be able to be part of
that legacy and heritage obviously was also interesting.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
What is the function? What is the goal of milk PEP?
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Yeah, I mean PEP stands for a process or education program,
but really our charter is very singular. It's meant to
increase the per capital consumption of dairy milk, with milk
basically only that, not the all the other forms of dairy.
Because it had been experiencing a long decline, the industry
got together and worked in Congress to create basically a
(17:11):
congressional charter whether they're assessed or taxed on the milk
that is processed, creating basically a war chests for US
to spend on advertising and promotion to encourage Americans to
drink more milk.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
And how are you measured your success?
Speaker 1 (17:26):
You know, basically on how much milk is processed, and
that's how a budget is created for every hundred weight
of gallon twenty CENTSUS assessed creating a war chats about
eighty million dollars, and success US is having Americans drink
more milk.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
And I think I so recently that milk is making
a comeback. It is, and I guess you've got a
lot to do with that.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Yes, I mean, MILKPEP definitely played a role. I think
we are very focused on sentiment and attitude and upper
funnel things, but frankly, the whole industry contributed to it.
Twenty twenty four was the first time that milk has
grown in fifteen years. But a lot of things went right.
But I think we are very pleased with the changing
sort of popular narrative about milk because when I walked
(18:09):
in the door, you might remember five years ago, all
the headlines in major pubs were pretty negative. You know,
Darry was taking a lot of heat, environmental issues, oats,
oat and almond and all the alternative milks were kind
of grabbing their headlines. I'm proud to report that this cycle.
The last couple of years, we've seen a much more
balanced upon.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
What turns it around?
Speaker 1 (18:31):
I mean I think probably milk PEPs investment and cultural
relevance helped. I think it's a little bit of trends.
As you know, cycles common cycles go. Frankly, the rise
of whole milk has been very helpful. You know, fat
went from being an enemy to a positive, So trends.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
There was a lot of misinformation about milk, yes.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
I mean there still is. I mean there are definitely
are parts of the population that reject milk for reasons
that always not always is based in science. I think
the industry has done a better job of organizing itself
to get some of the more scientific truths out there.
But honestly, this sounds like a cop out from advertising person,
but some of it is just a vibe. Like mil
PEP really tried to invest in that balance between fact
(19:12):
and perception and to bring interesting celebrities back to bear
to do great interesting platforms and properties that just milk
seem more contemporary, more relevant, more part of today's cultural narrative.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
So how do you reach the market? Yeah, I know
you have a lot of events that you have you've
got these marathons or running events. Tell us a little
bit about that.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yeah, we have a pretty i would say robust of
omni channel plan, a very big investment and always on
digital online video CTV, all the normal pieces. But we
also sponsor or have built from the ground up two
major events. We made a commitment to support female in sports.
Mean milk has been in sports, you know for ten
thousand years. Honestly, nol PEP has been supporting athletes for
(19:56):
the thirty years of existence. We made a bigger bet
on emails given our business needs. Where as you can imagine,
women are still the primary shopper, the primary influencer on children.
So we started off actually by hacking the New York
City Marathon. We were not an official sponsor, another sports
Drink was, but we supported all the female runners of
(20:16):
the twenty twenty two New York City Marathon, created a
great event for them, exposed and almost twenty five percent
of those women's signed up, and we were really touched
by the sort of the outprogram support. Then the following
year we did the same thing at three national races,
twelve local races, and we realized, to my surprise, there
was no full like marathon in the country for just women.
(20:38):
Lots of five k's, ten ks, half marathons, and so
we sort of opportunity to build a race by women
for women from the ground up, So we launched every
Women's Marathon as it's called in twenty twenty four in Savannah.
We were prising it in Scottsdale just a few weeks
in November, and it was a huge undertaking. It was
(20:58):
a year round effort where we were really creating a
community of runners explaining how milk can feel a performance journey.
And the first event was a huge success, so excited
to replicate it this year. Our second major platform is
in e sports, similarly a lot of inequity and competitive gaming,
so we created from the ground up the largest Fortnite
tournament only for female players. Again October of last year.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Really focused on women.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
And so the next event actually is happening as we speak.
It's kicking off today. The tournament will be tomorrow as
part of TwitchCon. So we have had many qualifiers and
we have one hundred young women competitive gamers coming to
our tournament and trying to address some of the inequity
they face. In fact, the top paid female competitive player
(21:48):
in America makes as much money as a five hundredth
male player, So the inequity in esports is probably even
worse than in regular sports. So we're trying to do
our part and again positioning ourselves as the performance strength
for gamers with key benefits like focus, hydration, recovery, because
opposition is the esports are also sports.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
What would you essentially just what you just said about focus,
hydration and recovery is what are the major that what's
the major value proposition of milk today?
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Oh my, it's a great question. One of the blessings
of milk if you go to our website Gonna Need
Milk dot Com, is it has so many natural benefits.
So it's thirteen essential nutrients that create literally a plathora
of like a dozen or so benefit errors. Having worked
in CpG food for a long time, it's unusual to
be able to claim the number of things we can. Obviously,
(22:38):
the protein is a big part of it right now.
So protein creates muscles, It helps kids grow to the
right height. The balance between the protein, fat and sugar
helps endurance athletes and runners recover after races. It hydrates
better than water, It helps build strong bones. I mean,
it is really like swimming in a benefit and I'll
see a wonderful benefit. So based on the audience and
(23:01):
the platform, we tend to highlight a bunch. We have
some new research that shows that also contains nutrients that
can help with brain health, can help with depressure and anxiety,
can help with focus. So it is almost and I
don't say this lightly because I've been in marketing a long.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Time, it's a wonderfood.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
It's like a superfood. It's like the original superfood. It
is all natural, it is not fortified for the most part,
and it's just it is a lot of bang for
the buck. And especially in this environment where I think
affordability is top of mind, it's a huge blessing to
have a product that has this many benefits that you
can surface and frankly, we have the opposite problem of
trying to figureut where to focus our dollars.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Let me ask you, if you could talk to your
twenty one year old self graduating just coming out of Yale,
what advice would you give that twenty one year old
on how to eventually wind up in a position like
you're in today.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
I think it's a great question. I mean, my journey
has been a lot about maybe learning to be more
offut it on betting on myself. And I think I
was raised in Asia. You know, I'm a third child.
I think I spent a long time trying to meet
the needs of others and it's great to be a
(24:12):
service oriented. I hope I always will be. On my journey,
I've learned to have more confidence than myself and to
better my own abilities, my own intuition, my own decision making.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Well, thank you so much. Really enjoyed this conversation. Once again,
we're talking with Yin Wound Ronnie, the CEO of Milk PEP. Again,
that's the organization behind milk processing and education initiatives. Again,
they were famously known for the Got Milk campaign. Thank
you so much for joining us. This is Paul Corvino,
Division President of iHeartMedia saying thanks for listening to another
(24:46):
episode of CEOs you Should Know. Listen to CEOs you
Should Know on the iHeartRadio app.
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