May 1, 2025 • 26 mins
(May 01, 2025)
Host of ‘How to Money’ Joel Larsgaard joins the show to discuss FIRE folks retiring but not loving the retirement life, Americans paying more for groceries, and subscriptions potentially increasing. Supreme Court may allow church-run, publicly funded charter schools across the nation.
Host of ‘How to Money’ Joel Larsgaard joins the show to discuss FIRE folks retiring but not loving the retirement life, Americans paying more for groceries, and subscriptions potentially increasing. Supreme Court may allow church-run, publicly funded charter schools across the nation.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listen Saints KFI AM six forty the Bill Handles
show on demand on the iHeartRadio f KFI AM six forty.
Bill Handle here on a Thursday morning May One News
that just broke Mike Waltz out as National Security Advisor
President Trump lasted lasted one hundred days. Not bad, a
(00:22):
little over three months. You know, we have a contest
coming up that we're going to do June seventh, where
we're gonna invite five people to join us. It's going
to be dinner at the Anaheim White House. The entire
crew will be there and we're going to invite five people,
well five people gonna win, plus a guest, and we're
(00:43):
trying to figure out how do we get what what
do people do to win?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I've just I have just decided.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Who whoever guesses the next person who gets thrown out
of the Trump administration is going to be a finalist.
But you have to guess which one. Okay, it's time
for Joel Larsgard, a host of How the Money every
Sunday twelve to two pm. Hello Joel, do we not
have Joel?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
I'm here? You hear me?
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Oh there you go?
Speaker 3 (01:11):
All right, we'll put that one on Kono.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Uh yeah, we will, by the way, real quickly. Who
do you think is out next?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Never mind, h Kono Kono is out next?
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, well absolutely, Hey, I hear something here is something
that's actually near and dear to my heart, which I
spend a lot of time thinking at thinking about so
many people retire and end up not loving retirement life
or early retirement life, and that's one of my fears,
(01:44):
is retiring and then what the hell do I do?
Because my identity is here. I love to work, I
always have and I know people we hear of stories
people retiring early, not only not happy about it, but
dying early because of retirement. And so this has become
a thing, I believe. So jump into that, would you, Joel.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
I think over the past like fifteen years in particular,
this trend towards early retirement has been picking up steam.
And it's partly it is because of a few reasons.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
I think.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
One, there's like a disillusionment with work that some folks,
especially younger folks, have had, and there's also been this
like bull run in the stock market, and so they're like, cool,
well if I just save more, and I'm super frugal.
I'm investing a decent chunk of my income, I can
actually grow up a decent nest egg and be able
to quit work a whole lot sooner than most folks.
(02:38):
So I realized that this is a subset of the
population that most folks don't find themselves in this camp.
And in fact, when you look at the statistics about
where Americans are with their investments and their finances, you
know most of them don't have nearly that much safe.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
But there is this subset of people.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
And some of them, yeah, they've got like two incomes
or dinks and they've got and they're making a lot
of money.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
But others aren't, and yet they have manage to pull
this off.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
But here's what you find and kind of what you're
alluding to, Bill with how you feel about the work
you do every day and how much like it provides
a sense of meaning and identity. Well, some of these
early retirees, they're pulling the trigger, they're taking the parachute,
they're opting out of work early, and they've got enough
money to sustain themselves for decades to come. But then
(03:22):
they find that they're really unhappy. And there was this
article basically, and some stats show that something like six
and ten early retirees end up.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Going back to work because early.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Retirements not all they thought I was gonna They thought
it was gonna be.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
So the issue here is not those people that have
the money to do it. It's those people who do
engage in early retirement and find out that this was
not it's not what they thought, or not as satisfied
as what they thought. I would love to I don't
know if there are any numbers in terms of percentage,
but I know if I retire anytime soon, I'm going
(03:58):
to be an unhappy camper. Well that's because I don't
play golf.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
There was a human being on this.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Planet that I would spend five and a half hours with.
I don't have hobbies. I mean, I read a lot,
I'm a news junkie, but I'm not out there horseback
riding or playing cards or hang out with the boys.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
And I don't go to bars. So you know, for me,
it's work.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
But then again, and I'd love to know this stat too,
people who are satisfied what they do. If you're looking
at the calendar till the day you retire, and I
know people that do that. That's a different animal.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
Well, I think you know, Bill, that you're an anomaly.
Most people do have hobbies. I'm not sure horseback riding
is a common one or not, but most people have
things that they enjoy outside of work, and so they
are they're like, well, maybe I will get more time
to do the thing that I care about. But especially
when you retire early, what you find is, well, you
want to enjoy those things with other people, and your
(04:54):
friends are still working, and so you're like, how am
I going to spend my time If my kids are
in school, my my friends are working, So what am
I gonna do? And then gets boring pretty quick. I
think for early retirees and for traditional retirees, there is
something that my friend Wes Moss calls core pursuits, and
he calls them hobbies on steroids. And the happiest retirees
(05:15):
are the ones who do have a couple at least
three core pursuits, whether it's like, oh man, I play guitar,
or I'm I go hiking, I'm a trail runner, whatever
it is that you're into. If you have those core
pursuits that you're that you're into, retirement is going to
feel less jarring and you're gonna it's so part of
retirement is the financial piece of it, right, You got
(05:35):
to you gotta save and invest, and you gotta be
prepared financially, but you also have to be prepared from
a mental and in a time standpoint like what are
you going to do with those hours? And one other
thing I think people can try out my friend Jilly,
and she's a big fan of something called many retirements,
So like take small retirements along the way, whether it's
like a month and a half off of work, taking
(05:56):
a leave of absence or a sabbatical or something like that,
especially if your employer offers it, even if it's unpaid,
If you can get a decent chunk of time off
and say well what is retirement, Like how would I
spend my time?
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Is this going to make sense?
Speaker 4 (06:06):
And I think the fire crowd it's like all over nothing,
And so I think there's a way to kind of
dip your toes in before you just kind of go
all in, uh hogwild and say I'm just going to
bag work all together. I think a lot of people
do find that that's just too far and it's not
fulfilling all right.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
So, Joel, let's spend twenty seconds talking about the companies
that you know that offer sabbaticals or a month and
a half off at a time.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
They exist.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Bill, this is truly something, especially if it's if it's
an unpaid thing, this is something. If you've been an
employer for eight, nine, ten years, you can say you
can talk to your boss and say, listen, I feel
like I need I need some time off. I'm gonna
come back better, rest rested and recharged. Here's why I'm
planning on doing with that time, so I'm a better
me when I return. Can I do this? Would you
pay me for two weeks out of the six weeks
(06:53):
or something like that. There are ways to make this happen.
Don't make it sound like it's impossible.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Okay, how about this close to impossible, almost impossible, very
nearly impossible.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Does that work for you?
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (07:08):
You could also use it as a time if you've
saved up enough money so you don't have to save
up for a full retirement, but you save up enough
money to take you know, six weeks off, and if
your boss says no way, then you say, cool, I'm
quitting and you find another job on the backside. I
know what's easier said than none, But those are possibilities.
It's not outside of the realm of possible, all right.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
So I'm going to share something that I have not
yet shared with everybody, because I'm pretty open about what's
going on in my life.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Today.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
I have a meeting with the head of the history
department at cal State Long Beach to go back to
school and get a master's degree in history in anticipation
of now. I don't know whether I'm going to do
it or not. And it's a two year program. But
that's kind of neat. I haven't been to school. Wow.
When I got my degree, I was in the seventies,
(07:58):
so it's been a few years. I don't even know
if they have class if they if I can transfer
any classes. But that's kind of neat, you know, because
I'm anticipating when I don't work.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
What do I do?
Speaker 3 (08:10):
You have to get the stone tablet transferred from your
old school.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
That's right, I think, yeah, And I don't and I
don't want to end up saying welcome to Walmart.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I'd rather not do that.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Or there's an in and out Burger right near me
and there's a lady there who literally just goes around
cleaning the tables and saying, hey, do you like your meal?
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Is everything okay? And she's clearly not young anymore.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
And I'm sure a lot of people unfortunately have to
do that. That's the other side of the coin, people
who can't retire and have to work into their seventies.
All right, Joel, Americans paying for groceries via b NPL,
explain that and explain why that ain't so good.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
So, BNPL stands for buy Now, Pay Later. It is
like the hottest new way to pay for everything under
the sun. And it's just amazing how it started off
at just a couple of different internet retailers and it
has expanded dramatically. And the reason it has expanded dramatically
to essentially paying for airline tickets groceries for your grub
(09:17):
Hub order now is because what happens is Americans spend
more money when they're paying with buy now, pay later
because they don't feel the full pain of what they're
paying for because they're paying an easy installment. So over
the course of the coming four months, so they end
up stocking more stuff into their carts and the checkout
price is bigger, so the internet retailers are more than
(09:40):
happy to allow us to buy in that way, even
if it cost them a little bit of money. They're
making more money because of those bigger cart sizes. And
I just think that it going all the way to
paying for something as like a basic staple and necessity
like groceries.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
It's just worry.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
It worries me, Like I get if you want to
buy a sweater or a pair of genes via buy now,
Pay later, I mean, I don't like it.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
I think it's terrible, but at.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Least you have a sweater and at least you have
a pair of genes.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Here are you beaten your genes and your sweater and
you're out of money?
Speaker 4 (10:10):
Yeah, it feels less egregious to do it for something
like that. You don't need a non necessity, But when
you're paying for necessities with buy now, pay later, some
folks might make it seem like, well, how else are
people going to be able to afford their groceries?
Speaker 3 (10:24):
I just don't think.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
I mean, people used to be able to buy groceries
before buy now, pay later existed. And this is also
it's not helping people having buy now, Pay Later. What
happens with so many people who start using buy now,
Pay Later as they use it more and more and more,
and when you're paying for things and installments, you feel
the pain a little bit or a lot less, and
that just leads to buying more than you otherwise would like.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
This is a bad cycle.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
So many people now who use buy now, Pay Later
are taking out many many.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Loans at once.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
They forget what AO, They become payment buyers, and it's
just one more way to get stuck in bad financial
habits and to never be able to make progress.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
It's yeah, well, even when you look at and this
was I don't know how many years it started.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Ron Po Peels.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Started it with all of the infomercials where you bought stuff,
it was it's always five easy payments of nineteen ninety
five or thirteen ninety five, and there's always a sweet spot.
And as I was reading about this, you don't want
to go beyond nineteen ninety five because that seems to
be sort of the tipping point unless you're buying something
(11:30):
very expensive and obviously selling that way, which is the
only way infomercials ever sell product. It the number of
sales astronomical relative to just going to the store and saying,
here's something for ninety nine ninety five obviously at psychology era.
Speaker 4 (11:51):
Yeah, I remember those infomercials, and as a kid, I
loved watching them, like they're so fun, the salesmanship and oh,
these knives will do things that your other knives can't do,
and so, yeah, you get attracted to that, but you're right,
the only way it's sold is if you make it easy,
pasy to pay that thing off, if you make it
essentially non consequential or almost non consequential from a money perspective,
(12:14):
And then that's what's happening with buy now, pay later.
And so some people say, well, it's better than credit
cards because they don't charge interest, and I get that
half of Americans handle credit cards orly two. But by
now pay later has this like nefarious behavioral undertone to it,
and that credit cards can't have. Like I was literally
reading this book yesterday by this guy who's an economist
who's basically saying, hey, we should all go back to
(12:35):
paying in cash more because we'd all be better off
because we feel that pain, right, And I think in
some ways he's right, Like if we were to go
back to using cash, it would be more inconvenient. We
would have to fork over the actual green bills get
back some annoying change, and actually that might be good
for us and might it might help us to spend
to spend less and stuff.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Yeah, I mean, we know he's a pain now.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
I mean, there's no issue.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
When I buy something in cash, I feel it I'm
paying real money. When I buy something with plastic, it's
not real money. It's you know, it's just easier. And
there's a whole psychology there. Now. I don't know if
you're old enough to remember my favorite infomercial, Ron Pope Peel,
who had pocket Fishermen, and he had these slice omatic
(13:21):
or the basomatic, which would he did the rotissary one
and then of course it exploded. Everybody does this, but
my favorite one was if you were bald, especially if
you had a bald spot on top of your head,
you could take care of it with the magic spray
can of basically brown paint and you would spray that.
(13:43):
I'm not kidding, by the way, I'm not exaggerating. And
that was the Ron Pop Peel special. The guy invented
that whole process. I mean, the guy was a genius. Okay,
that's it.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
Two favorites. Can I share them real quick please? Okay.
So one with sham Wow.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
You gotta love the ShamWow guy and then the subsequent
trouble he got into. But there was this one for
it was like it was something that you put.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
On your legs to remove hair.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
It was called nads I think it was from Australia,
and one of the points they used to sell it
was that you could that it was edible, so you
could they like literally eat the stuff to remove the
hair from your legs, and that to me was like
the best selling point. I was like, oh, if you
can eat it, then I definitely want it.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Well, there's a lot you can do with that. I'm
not even gonna go.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Okay, it's nads be an adult.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
I gut no, there's no chance.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
By the way, there was one that removed hair very successfully,
and that was basically sulfur sulfuric acid and that worked brilliantly.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Okay, we're done, Joel, all right, thank you?
Speaker 1 (14:46):
All right, catch you this Sunday twelve, the two How
to Money Joel at How to Money? Joel, all right,
let me move in a different direction. Yesterday the Court,
Supreme Court heard arguments in a case that is so
important that somehow it has not gotten the intention that
it should. And I'm going to spend a couple of
(15:08):
minutes talking about cases of this import The Supreme Court
can change and does change how we run our lives,
one of them being Roe v.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Wade, both establishing Roe v. Wade and then overturning Roe v.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Wade, and the implications of that, the influence of that
is insane, how important that is. Another way the Supreme
and this, by the way, is simply how they interpret
the Constitution, because that's what the Court does in Roe v. Wade.
There's nothing in the Constitution that talks about abortion. As
(15:43):
a matter of fact, if you look at the original
decision by Blackman, he talks about a number of rights
that come out.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Of the Constitution.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
In other words, this ectoplasm, this miasthma of green, this
green cloud comes out of the Constitution that gives us
the right to abortion.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
I mean, it was a stretch, and this is why.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Justice Alito was going crazy about it and said, there's
nothing there.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
There is nothing there. It's the court making it up. Okay.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
The other way that the Court does interpret the Constitution
is interpreting the words of the Constitution specifically. And this
is a case that they heard yesterday and it looks
like the Supreme Court is going to reverse decades long decisions.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
And that has to do with church run schools.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
And the argument is should church run schools get money
from the state?
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Are they considered public schools?
Speaker 1 (16:52):
And the answer has always been no. Now this gets
really interesting because which way is the court and ago
since the early nineteen nineties, charter schools have taken a
hold in California because public schools it is such a
horrible job of teaching kids that charter schools were established
by the parents, but they were public schools.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
They were still paid for by the state.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
And the reason and the argument here is the reason
the state pays for charter schools or one of them
is they're not religious. The state cannot pay for religious schools.
It's a First Amendment. It's separation of church and state. Now,
(17:38):
where does it say in the Constitution that there must
be a separation of church and state?
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Okay, First Amendment.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
By the way, they always cite First Amendment, freedom of
the press, etc. Assembly that's all First amendment. Freedom of
religion is probably.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
The most important amendment we have, the most important. We
have a couple things.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
First of all, the United States was founded on religious freedom.
You know, the Pilgrims, the Puritans came over and created
a new country because they were leaving the mandatory religion
of England. You had to be Church of England, you
had to be Anglican. And so they said, no, we
(18:24):
want our own religion. So they come over to this
place called the Colonies. The United said the future of
the United States, and said and established a constitution and
said one of the basic tenets is freedom of religion.
And so first amendment, first right is freedom of religion.
(18:44):
Congress shall make no law respecting and establishing of religion,
or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. And then came speech
and press and assembly and petitioning the government. Most important
thing is freedom of religion because the country was founded
on it. And as a matter of fact, here's a
quick side note about freedom of religion. You've heard of privilege.
(19:07):
You know, I'm not going to talk because I have
a privilege. I've attorned a client privilege or the doctor
patient privilege. Those privileges exists in law or the married
couple's privilege. I can't be forced to testify against my wife. Well,
it's the person who's claiming the privilege can waive that,
(19:28):
say I don't want that privilege anymore.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Privilege is gone. The penitent clergy privilege. That is what is.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Said in the confession. What I say to the clergyman
is also privileged. But both sides are covered. Even if
I waive it, the clergyman can invoke it. Both sides
have that right. It's the only right that exists on
both sides in terms of privilege, because freedom of religion
(19:59):
is so sacri Okay, finishing up with the Supreme Court
is going to or not or going to do. There's
a case right now heard yesterday in which the Supreme
Court may allows ask to allow church run publicly funded
charter schools across the country. And the argument against that,
(20:20):
Wait a minute, you can't do that because this separation
of church and state. Well, if you look at the
language of the Constitution, and this is the kind of
fun part is, the Court can interpret the Constitution anyway
it wants.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
For example, let's do the Second Amendment for a minute.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of
a free state. The right of the people to keep
and bear arms shall not be abridged. If you look
at all the recent cases the right to keep arms right,
gun rights, the courts have sort of just eliminated a
well regulated part that doesn't exist. According to the court,
(21:04):
the Supreme Court, it starts being necessary the security of
a free state. The right of the people to keep
in bear arms shall not be abridged. In other words,
if you remove the militia part, because what's a militia?
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Is it the army? Is it the National Guard?
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Is it a the minutemen that were part of They
were mainly the army during.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Washington's time in many cases.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Okay, so the court interpreting that second Amendment First Amendment, Okay,
separation of church and state, which up to this point,
the state, the government was not funding church schools, religious
schools because of separation of church and state.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
So what does the first Amendment say, Congress.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof and then free speed, and then.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Free press, etc.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
And so what does that have to do with paying
for schools it's not making a law respecting an establishment
of religion. Congress doesn't stop being churches from being created.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
You can create all.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
The churches you want. Or prohibiting the exercise of religion.
Not only can Congress not stop churches from being built,
they can't stop you from exercising your religious freedom. What
does it have to do with schools and paying for
religious schools depends on how you interpret this. Up to
(22:40):
this point, it was interpreted pretty strictly that this meant
separation of church and state. No money goes to religious organizations. None, Neil,
I can't hear you.
Speaker 5 (22:53):
When did it become protecting the state from the church.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
It's not protecting the state.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
It's not protect pos state to protect the church from
the state in the mid st So if they paid,
I got a question. If they paid every school, religious school,
no matter what the religion is, then it doesn't mess
with any of that.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Oh no, all right, no, no, no, you're right, No
you can't.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
You can't say Catholics or Christians or Muslim schools that
you can't. But the point is, any religious school has
been as far as the course been determined up to now,
is any religious school cannot be funded by the government.
So now you have a very conservative court asking the question,
(23:38):
Wait a minute, isn't that discrimination against religious schools. Well,
you could argue it is because religious schools are not
funded by the taxpayer and shouldn't be funded by the taxpayer,
or they're not being funded by the taxpayer. Therefore it's
discrimination against those schools, and it's discrimination against parents who
(23:58):
put those kids in the schools because if they go
to a public school or a charter school, of the
state pays, but if they go to a religious school,
the state does not pay. That's the difference. That's separation
of church and state. This doesn't say separation of church
and state, just says they can't establish the government can't
establish religion or prohibit religions.
Speaker 5 (24:19):
Separation of church and state doesn't exist in the Constitution. Well,
it depends on how you and Trades came from the
Danbury Baptist letter.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
I'm not even arguing that.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
All I'm saying is the court how it interprets even
something as I would say as clear cut, is not
clear cut. There is almost nothing clear cut in the Constitution,
and the court is swinging the other way. Much like
Roe v. Wade the court just swung the other way. Incidentally,
(24:51):
the way the court is moving and the questions, and
you can tell which way the court is going to
go with the questions t to make it that charter schools,
religious schools are going.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
To get state money.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
It's going to happen, absolutely all right, coming up, I'm
taking phone calls for handle on the law, Marginal Legal Advice.
I was sort of doing it yesterday, but that was
a Wednesday, so I'm doing it today.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
And yeah, it's a long story.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Anyway, Today I'm taking the phone calls so you can
call me at eight seven seven five to zero eleven fifty,
starting just as I lock out and say goodbye, and
Gary and Shannon come aboard Marginal Legal Advice, where I
tell you you have no case and I'd love to
have you call in so I can abuse you, make
fun of you. And the calls go very quickly because
(25:40):
there are no commercials, there's no Amy doing news. I
mean there's nothing, and not even my patience. So I
go through the calls eight seven seven five to zero
eleven fifty and I start in just a moment eight
seven seven five to zero eleven fifty. Okay, we're done
Tomorrow morning wake up call, Will and Amy, Neil and
I at six and Kono and and there all the time.
(26:03):
This is KFI AM six forty. You've been listening to
the Bill Handle Show. Catch my Show Monday through Friday,
six am to nine am, and anytime on demand on
the iHeartRadio app
You're listen Saints KFI AM six forty the Bill Handles
show on demand on the iHeartRadio f KFI AM six forty.
Bill Handle here on a Thursday morning May One News
that just broke Mike Waltz out as National Security Advisor
President Trump lasted lasted one hundred days. Not bad, a
(00:22):
little over three months. You know, we have a contest
coming up that we're going to do June seventh, where
we're gonna invite five people to join us. It's going
to be dinner at the Anaheim White House. The entire
crew will be there and we're going to invite five people,
well five people gonna win, plus a guest, and we're
(00:43):
trying to figure out how do we get what what
do people do to win?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I've just I have just decided.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Who whoever guesses the next person who gets thrown out
of the Trump administration is going to be a finalist.
But you have to guess which one. Okay, it's time
for Joel Larsgard, a host of How the Money every
Sunday twelve to two pm. Hello Joel, do we not
have Joel?
Speaker 3 (01:09):
I'm here? You hear me?
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Oh there you go?
Speaker 3 (01:11):
All right, we'll put that one on Kono.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Uh yeah, we will, by the way, real quickly. Who
do you think is out next?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Never mind, h Kono Kono is out next?
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, well absolutely, Hey, I hear something here is something
that's actually near and dear to my heart, which I
spend a lot of time thinking at thinking about so
many people retire and end up not loving retirement life
or early retirement life, and that's one of my fears,
(01:44):
is retiring and then what the hell do I do?
Because my identity is here. I love to work, I
always have and I know people we hear of stories
people retiring early, not only not happy about it, but
dying early because of retirement. And so this has become
a thing, I believe. So jump into that, would you, Joel.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
I think over the past like fifteen years in particular,
this trend towards early retirement has been picking up steam.
And it's partly it is because of a few reasons.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
I think.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
One, there's like a disillusionment with work that some folks,
especially younger folks, have had, and there's also been this
like bull run in the stock market, and so they're like, cool,
well if I just save more, and I'm super frugal.
I'm investing a decent chunk of my income, I can
actually grow up a decent nest egg and be able
to quit work a whole lot sooner than most folks.
(02:38):
So I realized that this is a subset of the
population that most folks don't find themselves in this camp.
And in fact, when you look at the statistics about
where Americans are with their investments and their finances, you
know most of them don't have nearly that much safe.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
But there is this subset of people.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
And some of them, yeah, they've got like two incomes
or dinks and they've got and they're making a lot
of money.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
But others aren't, and yet they have manage to pull
this off.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
But here's what you find and kind of what you're
alluding to, Bill with how you feel about the work
you do every day and how much like it provides
a sense of meaning and identity. Well, some of these
early retirees, they're pulling the trigger, they're taking the parachute,
they're opting out of work early, and they've got enough
money to sustain themselves for decades to come. But then
(03:22):
they find that they're really unhappy. And there was this
article basically, and some stats show that something like six
and ten early retirees end up.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Going back to work because early.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Retirements not all they thought I was gonna They thought
it was gonna be.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
So the issue here is not those people that have
the money to do it. It's those people who do
engage in early retirement and find out that this was
not it's not what they thought, or not as satisfied
as what they thought. I would love to I don't
know if there are any numbers in terms of percentage,
but I know if I retire anytime soon, I'm going
(03:58):
to be an unhappy camper. Well that's because I don't
play golf.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
There was a human being on this.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Planet that I would spend five and a half hours with.
I don't have hobbies. I mean, I read a lot,
I'm a news junkie, but I'm not out there horseback
riding or playing cards or hang out with the boys.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
And I don't go to bars. So you know, for me,
it's work.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
But then again, and I'd love to know this stat too,
people who are satisfied what they do. If you're looking
at the calendar till the day you retire, and I
know people that do that. That's a different animal.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
Well, I think you know, Bill, that you're an anomaly.
Most people do have hobbies. I'm not sure horseback riding
is a common one or not, but most people have
things that they enjoy outside of work, and so they
are they're like, well, maybe I will get more time
to do the thing that I care about. But especially
when you retire early, what you find is, well, you
want to enjoy those things with other people, and your
(04:54):
friends are still working, and so you're like, how am
I going to spend my time If my kids are
in school, my my friends are working, So what am
I gonna do? And then gets boring pretty quick. I
think for early retirees and for traditional retirees, there is
something that my friend Wes Moss calls core pursuits, and
he calls them hobbies on steroids. And the happiest retirees
(05:15):
are the ones who do have a couple at least
three core pursuits, whether it's like, oh man, I play guitar,
or I'm I go hiking, I'm a trail runner, whatever
it is that you're into. If you have those core
pursuits that you're that you're into, retirement is going to
feel less jarring and you're gonna it's so part of
retirement is the financial piece of it, right, You got
(05:35):
to you gotta save and invest, and you gotta be
prepared financially, but you also have to be prepared from
a mental and in a time standpoint like what are
you going to do with those hours? And one other
thing I think people can try out my friend Jilly,
and she's a big fan of something called many retirements,
So like take small retirements along the way, whether it's
like a month and a half off of work, taking
(05:56):
a leave of absence or a sabbatical or something like that,
especially if your employer offers it, even if it's unpaid,
If you can get a decent chunk of time off
and say well what is retirement, Like how would I
spend my time?
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Is this going to make sense?
Speaker 4 (06:06):
And I think the fire crowd it's like all over nothing,
And so I think there's a way to kind of
dip your toes in before you just kind of go
all in, uh hogwild and say I'm just going to
bag work all together. I think a lot of people
do find that that's just too far and it's not
fulfilling all right.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
So, Joel, let's spend twenty seconds talking about the companies
that you know that offer sabbaticals or a month and
a half off at a time.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
They exist.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Bill, this is truly something, especially if it's if it's
an unpaid thing, this is something. If you've been an
employer for eight, nine, ten years, you can say you
can talk to your boss and say, listen, I feel
like I need I need some time off. I'm gonna
come back better, rest rested and recharged. Here's why I'm
planning on doing with that time, so I'm a better
me when I return. Can I do this? Would you
pay me for two weeks out of the six weeks
(06:53):
or something like that. There are ways to make this happen.
Don't make it sound like it's impossible.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Okay, how about this close to impossible, almost impossible, very
nearly impossible.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Does that work for you?
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (07:08):
You could also use it as a time if you've
saved up enough money so you don't have to save
up for a full retirement, but you save up enough
money to take you know, six weeks off, and if
your boss says no way, then you say, cool, I'm
quitting and you find another job on the backside. I
know what's easier said than none, But those are possibilities.
It's not outside of the realm of possible, all right.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
So I'm going to share something that I have not
yet shared with everybody, because I'm pretty open about what's
going on in my life.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Today.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
I have a meeting with the head of the history
department at cal State Long Beach to go back to
school and get a master's degree in history in anticipation
of now. I don't know whether I'm going to do
it or not. And it's a two year program. But
that's kind of neat. I haven't been to school. Wow.
When I got my degree, I was in the seventies,
(07:58):
so it's been a few years. I don't even know
if they have class if they if I can transfer
any classes. But that's kind of neat, you know, because
I'm anticipating when I don't work.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
What do I do?
Speaker 3 (08:10):
You have to get the stone tablet transferred from your
old school.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
That's right, I think, yeah, And I don't and I
don't want to end up saying welcome to Walmart.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I'd rather not do that.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Or there's an in and out Burger right near me
and there's a lady there who literally just goes around
cleaning the tables and saying, hey, do you like your meal?
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Is everything okay? And she's clearly not young anymore.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
And I'm sure a lot of people unfortunately have to
do that. That's the other side of the coin, people
who can't retire and have to work into their seventies.
All right, Joel, Americans paying for groceries via b NPL,
explain that and explain why that ain't so good.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
So, BNPL stands for buy Now, Pay Later. It is
like the hottest new way to pay for everything under
the sun. And it's just amazing how it started off
at just a couple of different internet retailers and it
has expanded dramatically. And the reason it has expanded dramatically
to essentially paying for airline tickets groceries for your grub
(09:17):
Hub order now is because what happens is Americans spend
more money when they're paying with buy now, pay later
because they don't feel the full pain of what they're
paying for because they're paying an easy installment. So over
the course of the coming four months, so they end
up stocking more stuff into their carts and the checkout
price is bigger, so the internet retailers are more than
(09:40):
happy to allow us to buy in that way, even
if it cost them a little bit of money. They're
making more money because of those bigger cart sizes. And
I just think that it going all the way to
paying for something as like a basic staple and necessity
like groceries.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
It's just worry.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
It worries me, Like I get if you want to
buy a sweater or a pair of genes via buy now,
Pay later, I mean, I don't like it.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
I think it's terrible, but at.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Least you have a sweater and at least you have
a pair of genes.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Here are you beaten your genes and your sweater and
you're out of money?
Speaker 4 (10:10):
Yeah, it feels less egregious to do it for something
like that. You don't need a non necessity, But when
you're paying for necessities with buy now, pay later, some
folks might make it seem like, well, how else are
people going to be able to afford their groceries?
Speaker 3 (10:24):
I just don't think.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
I mean, people used to be able to buy groceries
before buy now, pay later existed. And this is also
it's not helping people having buy now, Pay Later. What
happens with so many people who start using buy now,
Pay Later as they use it more and more and more,
and when you're paying for things and installments, you feel
the pain a little bit or a lot less, and
that just leads to buying more than you otherwise would like.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
This is a bad cycle.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
So many people now who use buy now, Pay Later
are taking out many many.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Loans at once.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
They forget what AO, They become payment buyers, and it's
just one more way to get stuck in bad financial
habits and to never be able to make progress.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
It's yeah, well, even when you look at and this
was I don't know how many years it started.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Ron Po Peels.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
Started it with all of the infomercials where you bought stuff,
it was it's always five easy payments of nineteen ninety
five or thirteen ninety five, and there's always a sweet spot.
And as I was reading about this, you don't want
to go beyond nineteen ninety five because that seems to
be sort of the tipping point unless you're buying something
(11:30):
very expensive and obviously selling that way, which is the
only way infomercials ever sell product. It the number of
sales astronomical relative to just going to the store and saying,
here's something for ninety nine ninety five obviously at psychology era.
Speaker 4 (11:51):
Yeah, I remember those infomercials, and as a kid, I
loved watching them, like they're so fun, the salesmanship and oh,
these knives will do things that your other knives can't do,
and so, yeah, you get attracted to that, but you're right,
the only way it's sold is if you make it easy,
pasy to pay that thing off, if you make it
essentially non consequential or almost non consequential from a money perspective,
(12:14):
And then that's what's happening with buy now, pay later.
And so some people say, well, it's better than credit
cards because they don't charge interest, and I get that
half of Americans handle credit cards orly two. But by
now pay later has this like nefarious behavioral undertone to it,
and that credit cards can't have. Like I was literally
reading this book yesterday by this guy who's an economist
who's basically saying, hey, we should all go back to
(12:35):
paying in cash more because we'd all be better off
because we feel that pain, right, And I think in
some ways he's right, Like if we were to go
back to using cash, it would be more inconvenient. We
would have to fork over the actual green bills get
back some annoying change, and actually that might be good
for us and might it might help us to spend
to spend less and stuff.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Yeah, I mean, we know he's a pain now.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
I mean, there's no issue.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
When I buy something in cash, I feel it I'm
paying real money. When I buy something with plastic, it's
not real money. It's you know, it's just easier. And
there's a whole psychology there. Now. I don't know if
you're old enough to remember my favorite infomercial, Ron Pope Peel,
who had pocket Fishermen, and he had these slice omatic
(13:21):
or the basomatic, which would he did the rotissary one
and then of course it exploded. Everybody does this, but
my favorite one was if you were bald, especially if
you had a bald spot on top of your head,
you could take care of it with the magic spray
can of basically brown paint and you would spray that.
(13:43):
I'm not kidding, by the way, I'm not exaggerating. And
that was the Ron Pop Peel special. The guy invented
that whole process. I mean, the guy was a genius. Okay,
that's it.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
Two favorites. Can I share them real quick please? Okay.
So one with sham Wow.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
You gotta love the ShamWow guy and then the subsequent
trouble he got into. But there was this one for
it was like it was something that you put.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
On your legs to remove hair.
Speaker 4 (14:08):
It was called nads I think it was from Australia,
and one of the points they used to sell it
was that you could that it was edible, so you
could they like literally eat the stuff to remove the
hair from your legs, and that to me was like
the best selling point. I was like, oh, if you
can eat it, then I definitely want it.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Well, there's a lot you can do with that. I'm
not even gonna go.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Okay, it's nads be an adult.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
I gut no, there's no chance.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
By the way, there was one that removed hair very successfully,
and that was basically sulfur sulfuric acid and that worked brilliantly.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Okay, we're done, Joel, all right, thank you?
Speaker 1 (14:46):
All right, catch you this Sunday twelve, the two How
to Money Joel at How to Money? Joel, all right,
let me move in a different direction. Yesterday the Court,
Supreme Court heard arguments in a case that is so
important that somehow it has not gotten the intention that
it should. And I'm going to spend a couple of
(15:08):
minutes talking about cases of this import The Supreme Court
can change and does change how we run our lives,
one of them being Roe v.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Wade, both establishing Roe v. Wade and then overturning Roe v.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Wade, and the implications of that, the influence of that
is insane, how important that is. Another way the Supreme
and this, by the way, is simply how they interpret
the Constitution, because that's what the Court does in Roe v. Wade.
There's nothing in the Constitution that talks about abortion. As
(15:43):
a matter of fact, if you look at the original
decision by Blackman, he talks about a number of rights
that come out.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Of the Constitution.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
In other words, this ectoplasm, this miasthma of green, this
green cloud comes out of the Constitution that gives us
the right to abortion.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
I mean, it was a stretch, and this is why.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Justice Alito was going crazy about it and said, there's
nothing there.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
There is nothing there. It's the court making it up. Okay.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
The other way that the Court does interpret the Constitution
is interpreting the words of the Constitution specifically. And this
is a case that they heard yesterday and it looks
like the Supreme Court is going to reverse decades long decisions.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
And that has to do with church run schools.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
And the argument is should church run schools get money
from the state?
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Are they considered public schools?
Speaker 1 (16:52):
And the answer has always been no. Now this gets
really interesting because which way is the court and ago
since the early nineteen nineties, charter schools have taken a
hold in California because public schools it is such a
horrible job of teaching kids that charter schools were established
by the parents, but they were public schools.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
They were still paid for by the state.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
And the reason and the argument here is the reason
the state pays for charter schools or one of them
is they're not religious. The state cannot pay for religious schools.
It's a First Amendment. It's separation of church and state. Now,
(17:38):
where does it say in the Constitution that there must
be a separation of church and state?
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Okay, First Amendment.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
By the way, they always cite First Amendment, freedom of
the press, etc. Assembly that's all First amendment. Freedom of
religion is probably.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
The most important amendment we have, the most important. We
have a couple things.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
First of all, the United States was founded on religious freedom.
You know, the Pilgrims, the Puritans came over and created
a new country because they were leaving the mandatory religion
of England. You had to be Church of England, you
had to be Anglican. And so they said, no, we
(18:24):
want our own religion. So they come over to this
place called the Colonies. The United said the future of
the United States, and said and established a constitution and
said one of the basic tenets is freedom of religion.
And so first amendment, first right is freedom of religion.
(18:44):
Congress shall make no law respecting and establishing of religion,
or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. And then came speech
and press and assembly and petitioning the government. Most important
thing is freedom of religion because the country was founded
on it. And as a matter of fact, here's a
quick side note about freedom of religion. You've heard of privilege.
(19:07):
You know, I'm not going to talk because I have
a privilege. I've attorned a client privilege or the doctor
patient privilege. Those privileges exists in law or the married
couple's privilege. I can't be forced to testify against my wife. Well,
it's the person who's claiming the privilege can waive that,
(19:28):
say I don't want that privilege anymore.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Privilege is gone. The penitent clergy privilege. That is what is.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Said in the confession. What I say to the clergyman
is also privileged. But both sides are covered. Even if
I waive it, the clergyman can invoke it. Both sides
have that right. It's the only right that exists on
both sides in terms of privilege, because freedom of religion
(19:59):
is so sacri Okay, finishing up with the Supreme Court
is going to or not or going to do. There's
a case right now heard yesterday in which the Supreme
Court may allows ask to allow church run publicly funded
charter schools across the country. And the argument against that,
(20:20):
Wait a minute, you can't do that because this separation
of church and state. Well, if you look at the
language of the Constitution, and this is the kind of
fun part is, the Court can interpret the Constitution anyway
it wants.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
For example, let's do the Second Amendment for a minute.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of
a free state. The right of the people to keep
and bear arms shall not be abridged. If you look
at all the recent cases the right to keep arms right,
gun rights, the courts have sort of just eliminated a
well regulated part that doesn't exist. According to the court,
(21:04):
the Supreme Court, it starts being necessary the security of
a free state. The right of the people to keep
in bear arms shall not be abridged. In other words,
if you remove the militia part, because what's a militia?
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Is it the army? Is it the National Guard?
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Is it a the minutemen that were part of They
were mainly the army during.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Washington's time in many cases.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Okay, so the court interpreting that second Amendment First Amendment, Okay,
separation of church and state, which up to this point,
the state, the government was not funding church schools, religious
schools because of separation of church and state.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
So what does the first Amendment say, Congress.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof and then free speed, and then.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Free press, etc.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
And so what does that have to do with paying
for schools it's not making a law respecting an establishment
of religion. Congress doesn't stop being churches from being created.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
You can create all.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
The churches you want. Or prohibiting the exercise of religion.
Not only can Congress not stop churches from being built,
they can't stop you from exercising your religious freedom. What
does it have to do with schools and paying for
religious schools depends on how you interpret this. Up to
(22:40):
this point, it was interpreted pretty strictly that this meant
separation of church and state. No money goes to religious organizations. None, Neil,
I can't hear you.
Speaker 5 (22:53):
When did it become protecting the state from the church.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
It's not protecting the state.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
It's not protect pos state to protect the church from
the state in the mid st So if they paid,
I got a question. If they paid every school, religious school,
no matter what the religion is, then it doesn't mess
with any of that.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Oh no, all right, no, no, no, you're right, No
you can't.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
You can't say Catholics or Christians or Muslim schools that
you can't. But the point is, any religious school has
been as far as the course been determined up to now,
is any religious school cannot be funded by the government.
So now you have a very conservative court asking the question,
(23:38):
Wait a minute, isn't that discrimination against religious schools. Well,
you could argue it is because religious schools are not
funded by the taxpayer and shouldn't be funded by the taxpayer,
or they're not being funded by the taxpayer. Therefore it's
discrimination against those schools, and it's discrimination against parents who
(23:58):
put those kids in the schools because if they go
to a public school or a charter school, of the
state pays, but if they go to a religious school,
the state does not pay. That's the difference. That's separation
of church and state. This doesn't say separation of church
and state, just says they can't establish the government can't
establish religion or prohibit religions.
Speaker 5 (24:19):
Separation of church and state doesn't exist in the Constitution. Well,
it depends on how you and Trades came from the
Danbury Baptist letter.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
I'm not even arguing that.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
All I'm saying is the court how it interprets even
something as I would say as clear cut, is not
clear cut. There is almost nothing clear cut in the Constitution,
and the court is swinging the other way. Much like
Roe v. Wade the court just swung the other way. Incidentally,
(24:51):
the way the court is moving and the questions, and
you can tell which way the court is going to
go with the questions t to make it that charter schools,
religious schools are going.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
To get state money.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
It's going to happen, absolutely all right, coming up, I'm
taking phone calls for handle on the law, Marginal Legal Advice.
I was sort of doing it yesterday, but that was
a Wednesday, so I'm doing it today.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
And yeah, it's a long story.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Anyway, Today I'm taking the phone calls so you can
call me at eight seven seven five to zero eleven fifty,
starting just as I lock out and say goodbye, and
Gary and Shannon come aboard Marginal Legal Advice, where I
tell you you have no case and I'd love to
have you call in so I can abuse you, make
fun of you. And the calls go very quickly because
(25:40):
there are no commercials, there's no Amy doing news. I
mean there's nothing, and not even my patience. So I
go through the calls eight seven seven five to zero
eleven fifty and I start in just a moment eight
seven seven five to zero eleven fifty. Okay, we're done
Tomorrow morning wake up call, Will and Amy, Neil and
I at six and Kono and and there all the time.
(26:03):
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