The Cooler

This week Matty talks to Jamedra Brown, Carly Severn, and Emmanuel Hapsis from the NPR and KQED podcast, The Cooler! They talk about their journey in media, being voices in a generation, trying to something new, and working in public media. And find out what they think is the next big thing in our 3 Killer Questions round!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey, friends, and welcome back to Access podcast, the podcast
about podcasts. I'm your host Mattie Stout and with me
in studio producer Zizi. Hello, how are you. I'm good
because I got to talk to some folks in studio
from NBR and they were amazing. I love NBR. NPR
has some of the best radio and now some of

(00:25):
the best podcasts out there, and this show The Cooler
is on the cutting edge of what podcasts are going
to be for NPR. I completely agree. They were fun,
they were young, energetic. Yes, and after you listen to
this podcast, if you want to watch the interview, we
have it up on our Facebook page. You can check
it out. But right now, let's hear a little bit
from the Cooler. Also, you should know a little warning.

(00:47):
If you have access to vital resources and you hoard
them and don't share them, just know that a relative
might come back one day and try to kill you.
Quite possible. I have henceforth asked my husband to upgrade
my wedding ring to one fit is vibranium. So we
talked about that that's happening. You hear that it's literally
so hot right now, exactly it's happening for your platinum
bitcoin bring made of thick. It's okay, So joining me Manual,

(01:14):
Jamdra and Carly from the cooler. Hello, I should say
everybody's name and then they can talk to people know
who you are. Hi, Carly, how are you? I'm doing great?
How are you? You're there? Like, like, I just want
to hear you talk all day. I was listening to
the show and I was like, if I had that voice,
I would It's like I would say, like, and I
see guys that are really buff, I'd be like, I
would never wear a shirt And if I had your voice,

(01:38):
I would just be like doing voice over all days.
What's funny because the common misconception folks have about me
is that I'm actually a very posh person, which I
am not. You do well, you have the posh access
sounded I'm not posh, you even say it. She's more
of a sporty space exactly, very much. And if you
couldn't guess that was Manual high Hello, I'm splendid. Also
in British it's only to two minutes. The British accent

(02:01):
has to come out. Let and engine Madra Hi. I'm
currently working on my wakondin so I'll have an accident.
We're going to talk about that. I listen to the
episode I had a I had a friend one of
my students who was African American who posted, Wakanda is
not real and the amount of hate he got it
is real. In my mind? Well no, and I listen
to your podcast and that's what I was like, Okay,

(02:23):
it's a state of it's a state of mind, you know.
I do want to talk about that. But but before
we start, we're in a We're in our podcast studio,
and usually when I have guests on, nobody ever wants
to come see me. They're on the phone. So it's
nice to have people in front of me, but we're
also on camera, which I don't know if I like,
what do you think of people video and podcasting? Because

(02:44):
to me, a podcast, the whole thing is the intimacy
of the voice. How do you feel about video? I'm
biased because my day job at kq e D is
so social media. I'm at social media strategist for k
q e D in addition to doing the coolest so
this is something that I would ask the folks to do.
But when I'm in the host chat. It feels old,
like I keep wanting to flick my eyes down to

(03:05):
this camera here that's in front of me. I can
see this like shadow form of myself. It's odd, but
I kind of like it. Yeah, for our show, I'm
glad we don't because there's a lot we record that
we then edit out and seemed like really brilliant and amazing.
But as someone who wanted to be on the Real
World growing up, I love the camera. Hello. Did you
did you ever try? Did you send in a tape

(03:26):
for anything? No, because by the time I was of
age to do it, it had already jumped the shark.
I did what I did not say in a tape.
I went to an audition for the Real World and
it was in Berkeley, next to the University. Again, I
was not selected. Which season would you have been on?
I would have been on the Vegas season and I
was not twenty one yet, so they would have selected me.

(03:48):
But a friend of mine who was there did kiss
quest what really that's ran upon him and kissed him.
Why has this never come up before? I have my secrets.
I can't tell you everything about me all the time.
Here's the difference and generations see when I think about
I think about Puck. That's about that's real world for me.
And I had a friend who made out with Adam
Sandler when he was on Remote Control. When they were

(04:11):
Remote Control was one of the best shows, none of
these shows. Control was an MTV game show with Ken Ober.
It was from his basement and Colin Quinn did the
was the announcer, and Adam Sander was like a monkey
boy kind of funny, funny thing on the show, and
it was fantastic. He didn't start on s n L.
That's what I always know he started. He started on MTV.

(04:33):
I learned every day I'm a teacher. That's what I'm
hearing that. You're like, you're welcome. Here's the invoice. So
speaking of a new generation, you know, NPR has long
been the bastion of of a certain kind of of
talk programming and a certain kind of show. Seven years
or I guess it was almost nine years ago, a

(04:54):
friend of mine started the Dinner Party download And when
and when he started it, it it was he and another
the down in l a at MPR. And the quote
to me was Matt Garrison Keeler's got to die someday
and know that there's nothing I get scared. I love
gears give but the point being that there has to
be some new, you know, younger blood coming up and

(05:17):
doing shows on NPR, because these older shows are you know,
kind of aging out. And also there's an audience at
NPR that is, you know, at the time, it's look
like us that that likes likes talk. How do you
feel and you feel that you are start part of
that that new voice of of NPR. Oh, are we
the voice of a generation? We're part of the renaissance,
a voice of a generation. Well, I didn't like saying

(05:41):
that I felt that I had. It is really tricky
as well, especially when you have kind of that mission
statement saying we're trying to do something new and I
don't know, then you really have to live up to it.
And um, I don't know, like working within the MPR framework.
And just to be clear, we are not the first
folks at MPR or NPR stay aations to do pop culture,

(06:01):
to take on pop culture, or to have a like
a podcast that talks about pop culture. We've never been
under any illusions that we are kind of pioneering that. Yeah,
and no, I mean I think that the the type
of podcast you do, in the quality of it is
it is different, and it it does it does feel
younger than the other NPR pop culture podcasts that I've heard.

(06:24):
How do you guys feel, I mean, it's a lot
of it's a heavy backpack to put on when you
talk about the NPR Moniker, because people have a certain
expectation about what we should be, how we should be,
how intellectual we should be, and so you know, a
lot of people think the pop culture is not something
they should be talked about on public media. I disagree, um,
and I think that we talk about it in a fun,

(06:46):
in a smart way. And we also because as as
as with our generation, we cannot separate the pop culture
from a lot of the social issues that are happening
right now. So I guess we are sort of like
introducing a voice into public media. Yeah, there definitely was
a pressure when we first started to be MPR and

(07:06):
to wear the name proudly and not embarrass the brand,
and specifically for our station, KQUT mission not accomplished. So
for the first couple of episodes, you can go back
and listen and we are very buttoned up and we're
kind of nervous, and we actually talked about Shakespeare on
our first episode. We were just trying so hard not

(07:26):
to get me in comments because I also write for KQUT,
and so when I write something or produce a podcast, um,
people come and say things like I donated to MPR,
I donate to the station, I own you. You should
be fired because I don't like what you're doing. Really,
that happens all are there NBR trolls beyond? I can

(07:47):
as someone who works in on KQUT social media daily,
I can attest to that. Oh my goodness. There's a
lot of people, you know, to Emmanuel's point, like folks
feel ownership of public media and that is absolutely right
and proper, but then not gonna like everything you do.
And you have to listen when they say you don't
they don't like it. Can I get mad when they
have very boring lecturers on in the middle of the

(08:09):
evening when I'm trying to, like, you know, do other
things you can public media, get your pitchfork store at
the station. So you said that there is a certain
pressure and how often are do you come across the
topic and I mean and have to debate amongst yourselves
before you even do it. Oh well, what springs to

(08:34):
mind was and this is a safe place. You're not on,
you're on, You're on, you're just being recorded. You're on
I Heart Radio. We don't care about anything. Just say it.
You're on Facebook, YouTube and Twitter. Yes. I think right
after the election there was some recalibrating at our station, like, okay,
we need to show both sides. Can you guys all

(08:56):
be upfront about being for civil rights sCASP um and
things like that, And so the first couple of weeks
after that, we definitely had to have some conversations um
with people who work at our station of what we
could say, and when it seemed like maybe we wouldn't
be able to talk about politics and social justice, then

(09:16):
we were like, well that then that's not our show.
We talked about pop culture, but everything is informed by
politics that like, especially in November. But thankfully they let
us do what we want and we get to just
be ourselves. Yeah, which is pretty great. I mean, like
not to sound trite, but like that's the pop part
of pop culture, like popular, like this is the stuff

(09:38):
that surrounds us, like this is why we care about
it. It It infuriates me, and I hope it infuriates you
too when people dismiss pop culture as just something that
you do it in your spare time. You read and
you talk about it, and it's it's not worthy of debate,
or it's it's low. It's like, it's the exact opposite.
It's the stuff around you. It's your life. It's the
stuff you listen to and consume every day. If there's

(10:00):
not something that's I don't know, if there's something that's
more important, I don't really know what that is. Pop
Culture extends past Kim Kardashian. I think that's what people
think about when they think pop culture. They're like, oh,
Kim Kardashian, it's bigger than that. Everybody has a form
of pop culture that they love and enjoy. It is
bigger than Kimp. There's Chloe Kendall. There's a lot of them.
We will get to that. Well. And here's something I

(10:21):
say to people all the time that I tell them
you should be grateful for Donald Trump. And they go why,
and I go, donald Trump has made politics pop culture.
When was before Donald Trump? How many people you knew?
I mean maybe you because you're real smarting, you work
at NPR, But how many people paid attention to what
was going on in Washington and what bills are being passed,
and and and and as as all the bad that

(10:42):
he's brought. I feel like that's maybe part of the
good that that is now kind of part of part
of the pop car culture vernacular is talking about politics.
People are much more aware, and I think you can
see this generation or recently people have gotten more active.
So it's like beyond just even knowing or being aware,
but people have taken to the streets. People are protesting,
people are standing up for what they believe in. So
I guess we can to say thanks for that. Well, yeah,

(11:05):
I mean, I'm not going to go overboard here and
you're like, you know, thank God for Donald Trump. But
you know what I'm saying, though, no I do. It's
visibility as well. I feel like stuff is on display
so much more than ever before, and when it's on display,
you tend to look at it and you see it
and then you talk about it and this is what
we're doing. This stuff was existing before, but no one
was really looking at it, and we're looking now. It's

(11:26):
like the bright light is shining on it. It's so important,
Like why wouldn't people care about this stuff? Or is
it the gas light? Here's a lot of that going on.
Someone had three coffees this morning and I applaud that.
So I want to talk about how you ended up
in in radio and working for NPR and then eventually,
you know, going into podcasting. Uh, radio is not the

(11:49):
not as cool as it used to be. You know,
when I started in radio, everybody wanted to begin radio.
And I started teaching radio about seven years ago, and
my students didn't listen, didn't have much to do with it,
and that's really been changing lately because of podcasting. What
made you decide, you know what this is? This is
the form of media for me? That the voice? What
what got you involved with with radio? Um, let's start

(12:10):
with jamitra Oh was it a decision or did it
just happen? Okaytimes? Did you choose radio? So so, I
think I'm probably the only one in the group who
actually studied broadcasting. So I went to school for broadcasting,
specifically radio and television at San Francisco State Shout out
back up, um. And you know the funny thing is
we didn't have a radio frequency, so we didn't have

(12:32):
a radio station per se, but what we did have
was podcasting. So I'm not gonna tell you what year
this was, because you don't need to be in my
business like that. No, how oill diam exactly. But at
the time, podcasting was not a thing. So my friends
who were over at San Jose State in another program
would make fun of us because they thought that podcasting
was a joke. So now I'm laughing um. But I
always wanted to work in media in general. Um. And

(12:54):
I'm from the Bay areas. Oka Quati, which is the
PBS MPR affiliate for San Francisco, was right there. So
I went and I worked. But I didn't plan on
being on the radio, and I didn't plan on being
on television. I planned on being sort of in the
advertising and marketing marketing side of things, which is what
I did. I ended up working in social media, but
I also ended up meeting a manual and Emmanuel and

(13:14):
I use a chit chat about pop culture in the
hallways and just throughout work in general, and eventually he
approached me about doing what we do but recording it.
It's a great handball. Thank you for the batton. Yes
are we in the Olympics. Yeah, they're not over yet.
This is just what I teach when I do radio.
I'm like, you have to pass the ball and she

(13:35):
just she sent you a lob. I loved it. You
missed out detail about when we would talk at your
cube side, I from your boss side. She has to
work and I'm like, they can wait. But I didn't
know that. Um. But for me, I started as an
intern I KQUT and I worked on a podcast pre serial,

(13:56):
so like podcasting was like, oh, what's that? How do
you even find it? iTunes? What? And it was a
literature podcast called The Writer's Block. And I got to
meet amazing people like Patti Smith and David Sedaris and
John Waters and all these people. And then that went
away and I started a pop culture blog to reach
the millennials because KUT was interested in in latching onto

(14:18):
this mythical beast known as the millennial. How do we
get their interests? How do we capture it? Study it? Yeah,
and that is not what k does or just picturing
a big net sticky pins in it. Yeah, but you
know it's not rocket science. If if you want millennials
to be interested in content, have other millennials create content

(14:41):
for people that they know that they're their friends and whatever,
and so that was successful and then from that the
Cooler was born. And I approached Jamidra and also Carly
because we would have pop culture conversations in the hallway
and we all have very different pers effectives, and I
thought it would be great to have a show where

(15:02):
not everyone disagrees, and sometimes we get into it hashtag
Stranger Things, and that's a lob off to Carly because
she has a lot of opinions about the Stranger Things.
Is such an albatross around my neck. Yeah, I and
you'll have to expand upon that because we have no
idea what you're talking about. So I'm pro and she's anti.

(15:23):
What do you mean you're anti? I think I'm the
one percent of humans that don't enjoy Stranger Things as
much as all the other humans. You're entitled to your
wrong opinion, That's what I'm saying. And you're entitled to
your wrong opinion exactly. That's why this is the beautiful country.
Remember we mentioned those NPR and K Yeah, yeah, they
were not happy about the Well, it doesn't help as

(15:45):
well when you do a very considered right up for
your editor. That's you, and then your editor gives it
the title hear me out Stranger Things is not that good?
That was her opinion. I think that that's valid title.
I like to think my original headline is a little
bit more on the fence. What was your original headline?
It was something like super like cowardly, ridiculous everybody. I

(16:08):
just just just in my opinion, I think I may
have used the word overrated. Oh that's even worse. See
I helped her, and she about what I will say.
Though it's season two makes season one look incredible. I'm
going back and looking at season one with fresh eyes.
I'm not going to rehash this. Don't look at me
like that. I feel I feel like I'm caught up. Basically,

(16:30):
I don't like it because I think it's a big
I think it plagiarizes rather than pays homage. I think
if you really want to enjoy that period, don't wallow
in fake nostalgia that's been cooked up in the lab
for you millennial um or someone who grew up in
the eighties. Just go and watch Poltergeist or Stand By
Me or any of those other movies that it rips off.
Do you want to hear something awful. I have a

(16:50):
teacher podcast in class and a student is doing a
podcast about Santa Cruz is from Santa Cruz, and I'm like, Oh,
you're gonna talk about Last Boys? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
He'd never heard of Last Boys. You guys heard of
Last Place vaguely? Oh my gosh, I have. But I,
oh my gosh, watch Last Boys. You can't be from
the Bay Area, if you if you know, sorry, I
won't even see that. Quite a little childre I'm feeling
so old, So let's get you your story. I started

(17:13):
off working in an art museum back in the UK,
and weirdly I really an art museum with that accent.
But she's not posh everybody, now, I was walking right
into this one. I used to make podcasts for this
art museum. I used to kind of work in a
communications role and I used to make little, tiny podcasts,
which looking back probably weren't that great, but I was
the only person who was doing it, and I was

(17:34):
given free rein and I absolutely loved doing it. And
then I kind of put all that aside for several years,
moved out here, started working. I used to work at
San Francisco Ballet and then I's not but I'm not partial.
I don't buy that at all, Like you're just putting
up a big mirror, and I finally see myself right

(17:56):
now this is turned into a roast of Carly. I'm
so sorry for starting that with the stranger and all
the beady eyes on me, just watching me like melt um.
And then I came to KQBDU where I work in
social media, and that these fine people, and it genuinely
was just like these guys say, we just used to
have separate, weirdly separate conversations about pop culture because do
you meet her and I A didn't know each other

(18:16):
that well, and be didn't talk about pop culture. When
we did talk, what did we talk about? Probably probably work,
probably art? What kind of team were having? What you
do together? The third at Gaine. But yeah, and then
it literally started like that, and we just tried stuff out.
Some of it was great, some of it was terrible.
We jumped the terrible stuff, elaborated on the good stuff,

(18:37):
I hope, and here we are. So you know, one
thing I tell people when they come up to you
at a party, and you know, I've done a lot
of talk radio, and they're like, I could do what
you do. My friends and I talk and it's oh gosh,
I want to do that. I can do that, And
you also exag yeah, you know, would you go tell

(18:57):
a surgeon you can do what he does because you've
watched mash um. But the point is that when you
do it right, it sounds effortless, and it sounds it
does sound like I'm eavesdropping in on a conversation. Um,
I just want to want you to speak to how
that process was to start and how it's evolved for
you guys, because it does sound effortless. But I do

(19:20):
know that there's a lot that goes into sounding that effortless.
It's like a swan. It just it looks great from
up top, but down below it's a it's a big
old mess. A little closer, she's she's doing swan references.
Not exactly. I'm sorry, I just leon, I'm sorry. I

(19:41):
think that it is not it's not effortless. But I
think we've gotten more more of a rhythm than we
did when we first started, because all of us are
pretty talkative people and we have to talk about a
certain topic or sometimes when we're interviewing people, we have
to figure out where we fit in the conversation. I
remember when, very early in our interview process, we'd be like, Okay,
you ask one question, and then you ask another question,

(20:02):
and then you ask another question, or else we could
just go on forever. Yeah, we have to script it
and stick to it, because otherwise we only have an
hour usually, and we can easily go for like five hours,
but no one wants to edit that, and one wants
to listen to that exactly. We try to keep it tight.
And as these two know, I usually come in with
like five pages that are highlighted. All of the all

(20:26):
of the words are highlighted, all of the words are
all of that. Basically, if you listen really carefully to
each episode, you can hear that gentle kind of the
sound of the highlighter. You can hear me trying to
drink tea surreptitiously and not getting away with it. You
can just hear all these little kind of incidental sound
and I'm just giggling the entire time, which I love.
But just watching you three right now, and I think

(20:48):
it's probably good that we are. We are on camera.
You have the character exists of every good talk show
I've worked on, which is the eye contact and you're
as you're finishing, you're looking here and giving him that
you do that, I handoff and and that's and that
comes with It's not something I had to go to
l A to work for for somebody in and they
wanted that like the first day, and I told him, like,

(21:10):
it doesn't happen like that. It takes some time. Right,
you have to fall in love with your co host
faces so that you're always looking at their easy to
just that this is the marriage. It's like, I don't
know about you, guys, I have so much I had
respect before, but I have so much more respect even
for folks who do this, because I think, to your
point about it, if it seems effortless, there's so much

(21:33):
work going on behind the scenes, and I think I
really under, like naively underestimated the amount of work that
goes into making something look easy and spontaneous. Um. And
those first couple of episodes were like such a rude
awakening for me. They're like, oh, this is really hard.
People study for this and they do it a lot,
and then they get really good at it and to
be allowed to kind of continue to improve it it.

(21:54):
I think we are pretty fortunate in that respect. I
would say, yeah, they just kind of like threw us
out there and the ending and they're like, let's see
if this works. Maybe it won't, maybe you guys will
suck good luck. And we were just like, Okay, this
is on us. And we actually had a live show
like the second week we were out, in which we
interviewed w km out Bell. Yeah, oh my god, no pressure,

(22:17):
gracious about it. Well, if it's a good guest, it
makes it easier, right, Yeah, And we were very scared
to a release the podcast and be have this live
event for people who didn't know who we were. We
didn't have a fan base. W kml Bell was there
and he's like, wait, what is this again. We're like,
we're not even sure. And it went really well. And

(22:39):
that was my lead in to say that we're actually
having a second you March at the Chapel in San
Francisco and the theme is nineties slumber party. Can I come? Yeah?
It's going to be so fun, having fun planning it,
having fun thinking about it. It's just going to be
a good night. I think that live doing live podcasts

(23:00):
are great for a lot of reasons, for for as
far as promotion and and then you know, if you're
in the sales world of radio, like it's it's I
think podcasting brings back a lot of what we used
to do in radio, and we used to do a
lot of live stuff in front of people. We used
to talk um and and that's what we get to
do with podcasting. Is one of the selling points I
give to radio stations when I go there. That is,

(23:22):
you know, listen, you didn't get in your radio for
talk for twenty to talk for twenty seconds between music.
I don't think you did. Maybe you did, but you
came to talk. NBR it was way ahead on the podcasting,
you know, NBR. You know when we started Stitcher ten
years ago, like those were the first good podcast we had,
and pretty much the only really good podcast we have

(23:44):
are from NPR. But NBR for a long time was
in the world of making radio shows and turning them
into podcasts. And you're part of this new movement of
creating podcasting. Do you see this, um? Is? This is
this something you see like being encouraged around um? Are
there lots of you know, lots of opportunities. Do you
think of podcasting moving forward in the np ARE front,

(24:06):
I would say yes, Um, I feel like there are
lots of new podcasts popping up just in KQUD in general.
So we've we've got the Cooler that's been around for
what since two thousand and fifteen? When do you put
it like that? Oh? Yeah, We've got a few other
ones that have popped up. Big Curious is another one
that's around. So it's a lot more is happening. And
the one great thing that I will say, not the
one great thing, but one of the great things I

(24:27):
will say about working at public media is that it's
an environment where you're kind of encouraged to like roll
your sleeves up and try things. So they're like, let's try,
let's see if it works out. If it doesn't, then
we won't do it again. But they encourage you to
do it. Um. And so they gave us the ball
and we ran with it, and I'm sure there'll be
other people that are coming behind us to run with
the ball as well, and it'll be fun hopefully. Actually

(24:48):
to that point, I think that's how three. If like,
please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's
how like three of the other big ones that take
qud come out has just come out with started just
by experimentation. I know, Bay Curious started off like that.
Um the Bay is something that just launched, which is
like the daily news podcast that they're doing with like
a really local slant about the Bay area. UM, political
breakdown California politics. Because to your point, everyone cares about

(25:12):
politics now, Like this stuff is it's kind of really
flourishing and it's I don't know, it's really fun to
work on as well, good people doing it as well,
which is lovely. Do you see the movement from from
it used to be you know, radio going into podcasting,
but now you're seeing a lot of podcasting moving onto
the air with radio? Um, is that something that you
eventually want to do? Have the show be part of

(25:34):
the route? As I started off the conversation, Garrison Killers, well,
actually he's already off the air, but that he is.
But but you know that there that this makes you know,
by having a podcast or kind of a farm system,
you know of like let's build our talent up so
that they're ready to go when we want to put
them on the air. I don't know, I mean I

(25:55):
think that. I think the thing of the beauty about
podcasting is that you have such a wide audience. So
I can't I haven't looked at the numbers recently. Manu
usually does that, but we have people who listen all
over the world. We had some folks a message from
South Africa. Yeah, and so when if our if our
podcast was on the air and beyond KQUTY, which means
that it'd be in the San Francisco Bay area, and

(26:16):
so I think sometimes those audiences are very different. Um,
in order for us to be on the radio, if
they would even let us on the radio, UM, we'd
have to sort of like have a we'd have to
have a really strong case for people in this area
wanting to hear us talk. Yeah, I think they do,
but UM, we would definitely have to approach it differently
because sometimes we try jokes that sometimes don't work. They're

(26:40):
a little too on the edge and I cut them out.
And if we were on radio, I think there will
be more pressure and we probably wouldn't be as much
of ourselves, but we would learn. So KQUT, if you're listening,
give us a radio spot, because you know, the more
of the Merrier. There was this talk of on April
Falls when you're um me and the person that I

(27:01):
started k QT pop the blog with, taking over for
Michael Krasny, who does for him the news show in
the morning, and for April Fol's. We would come on
and say, hey, we're actually millennials who work here, and
we're taking so much better than Michael Krasny. Oh I'm
sorry now for me. For me, I like Michael, but

(27:24):
I think I'd like to listen anymore. Well, well that's
very that's nice. I don't work at NP or I
can say whatever I want. I like listening to you.
I'd rather listen to you any day. We're just gonna
sit smile. But that was the idea, and then quickly
people at the station we're like, that will create riots
in the streets. We actually believe that that's happening, and

(27:44):
that they forget that it's April Fol's. People take Michael
almost as seriously as he takes himself. People love him,
so Michael has a serious fan. Oh I know, oh,
I know, I'm probably gonna get some hate for for
that little statement coming right now, so anticipate, you know what,
I embraced. I need some trolls at this point. You know,
we've only been we've only done like, you know what,

(28:05):
fourteen episodes, So yeah, bring it on. Let's get some.
Actually now I think I can hear a NPR trolls.
I deal with radio trolls in the day, So NPR,
bring it on. So Ryan Murphy's feud season three can
be about you and Michael Krasy. There's no feud True
Detective season three. I like Michael, it's just some days

(28:25):
it's I feel like it's a little too like me,
me me, some of the stuff. Just to bring it
back to the cooler stuff that people don't like at all.
We get people saying like why did you discuss that?
Or you're totally wrong stranger things or like I don't know,
And like, as we developed, that's one thing that we've

(28:46):
had to learn to not be afraid of. Like, as
an inveterate coward, I kind of shy away from conflict.
And it's weird having to decide to talk about something
knowing that certain people will really hate it and they'll
probably hate you for talking about it, do you know
what I mean? Like, like when you when you're kind
of brought up in a certain way to avoid distress

(29:08):
and just create comfort wherever you go, the poshway, Yes,
exactly in the West wing. It's just that's weird. So
who acts as the decision maker? Because I'm sitting here
right now thinking, gosh, should we cut out the Michael
Krastning Park because on this show I make that decision
too late? It's live now. Um, but who who who?

(29:29):
Who's the one that makes the final decision or is
that a group conscious or looking? I mean, is this
guy right here? Yeah? I kind of felt like that, Yeah,
we will what he takes input, Like we'll say if
I'll say something, and I'll be like, you know what,
maybe we don't. Maybe we shouldn't say that. Maybe when
you can cut that out. Um, but you I have
to give a lot of credits to a manual because
most people who work in podcasting or radio or whatever

(29:51):
they get on air, they do their job. They have
a producer that they work with who is typically sort
of like helps them cut things, manipulating make it sound great.
Emmanuel has done most of that. Our entire time him out.
So we go in, we have the topics, we record,
and then he spends time editing it all whittling it down,
contextualizing it for the blog. It's so yes. So I
typically deferred to him unless I feel strongly about something

(30:13):
or if I'm like, you know, when maybe I shouldn't
be on air saying that Manuel, do you have the
I'll get the after I hit published, right like, oh gosh,
maybe I should have cut that out. How do you
get that? And you still get that? Um, it's gone
now because we've done over a hundred of these episodes.

(30:33):
Just slipped a little fact. By the way, you're now
an official podcast once you've done a hundred. Finally, finally
do we have the rest of that? Um? But they
just yanked us off a YouTube thing. Sorry guys, But yeah,
I don't get that feeling anymore because I'm pretty much perfectionist.

(30:54):
So before anything goes out, I listened to it like
seven times. And then when I meet up with these
guys who are like, oh my god, how's it been going.
I haven't seen you in so long? And I'm like,
I feel like we've been hanging out for like the
past five days. Live inside my ears. I've been listening
to a conversation we had a week ago seven times. Um,
and I'm glad to say new things and here you

(31:15):
say new things. Yeah, but yeah, that feeling is gone.
And you know, if people don't like it, that's fine.
I always end my show with three killer questions, very
much a radio thing. Trust me, this will take another
twenty minutes. Yeah, this is These questions do tend to

(31:37):
have their own life. So the first question I asked
everybody and I and I want you to take a
second thing about it. But if you could listen to
a podcast featuring anybody living or dead, so like your
dream podcast, and I'll tell you. My favorite answer I've
heard so far was from one of my students who
said Bobby Brown and Whitney Houston during the nineties, like,
and I was like, that would have been a good podcast.
I would like to hear that. So think about it.

(32:00):
M hmmm, does anybody have anybody else? That's a really
good question. Um, don't steal it. And I promises that's
what radio is, okay. So you know, to dope queens,
So the idea is to doper queens. No offense to
Phoebe and Jessica love them, but you know, evolving evolution.

(32:23):
It will be Sasha, Emilie Obama and It will encapsulate
that photo that you might have seen where Sasha is
talking to Ryan Reynolds and in the background, Malia is
giving her thumbs up, like yeah, so I would love
to hear that in audio format and two dopest queens

(32:44):
m I like that. I'm just like, no, I love this.
I have the title concept me to what two dopest
queens Cardi B and Tiffany Hattish from Girls Trip. Okay,
I'm here for that. That would be amazing. I would
listen to that, but I think that I would have
to turn it off after about ten fifteen minutes. I

(33:04):
think Cardy would great on me after about ten or
fifty years. Like weird. Now see, in my world, I
can't make fun of Cardi B. Because you know that's
like our Michael Krasny. Cardi B's are Michael Krasny. That's
quite the jumps. Well, okay, let's make that happen. I
feel like I need to see that on a T shirt.

(33:25):
Cardi B is are Michael. We might have just created
something beautiful. There's my there's another dream podcast Michael and
Cardi B. He would be so prepared. I don't know
why when you mentioned it, the first person that came
to mind. I was like no, and tried to dismiss it,
but he won't go away. James Brown, like, I would
love James James Brown, and I don't know if it's

(33:45):
because you know, I'm a Brown and I hope that
we're related, but we're probably not. But I would like
a podcast and that followed his life because he got
I mean, there was some amazing times back in the day,
just is evidenced by some of his mugshot photos. Just
to like be in the life, like a day in
the life with James Brown and hanging out with celebrity

(34:08):
friends amazing. The other person they came to mind Charlie Murphy.
Oh my gosh, no, it would be great to listen
to Charlie Murphy tell stories every day on a podcast,
every single day. So those are the two people that
came to mind for me. I like that. I love
how I've had the most time to think about it,
yet I feel the least preferred with this answer. I'm

(34:29):
a big movie doalk like. I just love movie trivia,
behind the scenes stories, you know, those oral histories of
movies you get in like Vanity Fair or something, some
kind of podcast version of that. It would be amazing
if you could get everyone involved and everyone cared enough
you got a club. Yeah yeah, I mean that they
have those in the interviews on there where they talk
about back you know a scene or can I tell

(34:52):
you the A b Club series I love most and
I horp on this A Bunch History of Violence where
they talk about action movies and they take action movie
seriously as like products of the time they were made in.
And there's no snaring. There's no like irony, because irony
just kills your soul. Don't do it like step away
from irony. It's a terrible thing. Um yeah maybe yeah.

(35:14):
History of Violence podcast me Arnold Schwartzeger. I don't know.
Oh sly Sli is not up too much. Okay, that's true.
It wouldn't be more fun. It was hosted by like
John Wayne Gacy or Jesus. Yeah, somebody actually really knows violent.
We can go for Dadah, I can speak to it. No,
Charlie's the wrong because she's the new action hero that

(35:36):
we need. Oh really, yeah you say that like you
don't agree with I guess it's yeah, no, I'm just
thinking about it for a minute. Yeah, I I do enjoy.
I did enjoy what was the last one? The Last
Fast and Furious Atomic Blond, Atomic Blonde, which which is
kind of the same movie as a lot of No No, No.
That's fine. It's not a great movie, but it is
a good one. Joy. I have one more idea. Okay,

(36:00):
so a podcast about like where did They Go? Jonathan
Taylor Thomas from the nineties j T T to you?
Where he um Macaulay Culkin. I want to hear from
him and about his weird hipster band that only things
about pizza, which is a real thing. He's looking good
these days, I know better, well best, good, better, not
as homeless as he looked before. Yeah, he's do you know.

(36:23):
I think he's gone through some tough times and maybe
he's on the upswing. He could be going down into
the down swing again, be Arthur. She would just like
start an interview and then be like, I'm sick of you,
get out of here. Because she's a brassy broad and
I love her. Well, she's dead, So you know what
a Golden Girls from heaven. I am here for a

(36:44):
Golden Girls. It could teach me about the Golden Girls
because I've never seen it. Didn't make it every now
and then we have these gosh, I'm I'm, I'm really
losing faith in you. So the second question I asked
is you know what what piece of technology that that
you use for in the first time and said, this
is amazing, this is going to change my life. You

(37:06):
guys are younger, so this usually is a better question
for maybe somebody who can say like a walkman. But
I can't say like a cattle, because then it gives
me t That's a great answer to that question, the cattle.
That's a cattle for five. That's great Victorian technology, all right.

(37:27):
I think the invention of live journal dot com was
really important to me because I could write my terrible
poetry and then other teens with terrible poetry would find it,
and then we would like chat and date. Do you
feel like the written word is really going away? I
think that Millennial's right more than ever in a way. Yeah,

(37:49):
we text all the time, but do you feel that
and as somebody who writes a blog, I mean, do
you feel that the engagement and that the level of
attention that people will give to a piece of writing
is gone down? No? I think people are obsessed with
think pieces now and everyone has an opinion, and there's
more people writing, and I just see it going up.

(38:09):
The trend is that word. Yeah, And you know the
stereotype is millennials like X, Y and Z, but not
novels or something. But everyone I know reads. I went
to the library yesterday and they were like you again. Yeah.
Like I always tell people that I think of podcasting.
It elicits the same feeling in my brain that reading

(38:30):
does when I'm really into one. It's an escape, it's
it's it's true empathy, and I'm I'm like into it.
So I see that that that's the same part of
the brain being used. So I'm glad to hear that
they're folks are reading too, because my students are all illiterate,
terrible high students. They're listening, they're watching right now. A
couple work for Z or producer. She works. She's not illiterate,

(38:53):
though she's very smart. Um so like a true latch
key kid. Television it's something that I love deeply. So
I will say that the technology that changed my life
was the DVR. The ability to be hard television shows
I wish I had when I was in high school
and middle school, when I missed that episode of Martin
and I came back to school and everybody was talking
about it. You would have to wait for summer or

(39:15):
wait for the re run. So the DVR has changed
my life, and it's also enabled me to watch more
television than I probably should. But m what are you
gonna do? I realized this is going to turn out
to be six or seven killer questions because I got
a couple more questions. The one question I asked everybody,
which is really stupid, but I want you to think
about I think you will appreciate it if you're a
sandwich personified, not your favorite sandwich, but a sandwich personified.

(39:40):
Like I'm I'm looking grilled cheese. Look at me, right,
come on, I'm grilled cheese. What what what would you be? Oh?
And well, the first thing that came to mind for
me was like a b LT, but a hallapein. You'll
be LT because I like it's spicy. I could be
a little salty. Sometimes you get the salt from the
bank and there you know, so you'r BLT with just

(40:01):
a ton of saltan with the sas, but then also
hallapeno as well. I like it. Yeah, Salt Bay exactly,
so that would be me, Oh god, my sandwich. I
think the bread would look really good on the outside,
but the inside would be kind of not commence tourate
with the quality of the bread. I really yeah, we

(40:24):
need it. Sounds like like like like vegemite on brios, Yes, yes, yes,
teasonal Brioche, and then just like Nutella, but not even Nuteller,
just like store Brandon Nutella, like some our Brandon teller.
Why is that? I don't know, because she looks fabulous.
But inside your your dark hole, your dead soul. Well

(40:48):
you know you do hate stranger things, so I do
think part of your soul is dead. Yeah, inside is
the upside down. Outside is normal. Mor might there you
go briosh with mom might inside um For me, I'm
going to pick two pieces of peta mr um. The

(41:10):
foundation of that is hummus du avocado, mash it in
maybe some like cucumbers your millennial yeah, called it must
be present. I can't buy a house obviously, toast. And
then here's the twist, French fries. Put it all together.
I'm a vegetarian, but I'm not a healthy one, so
I want French fries. I want to go to an

(41:32):
early grave happy because of the French fries, which I'm
obsessed with. Here for a good time, not for a
long time, exactly. All right, what was the last podcast
that you binged? Oh? Well, I I listened to a
certain podcast called The Read, which is hilarious. Um, Emmanuel
and I have that in common, and so I started watching.

(41:53):
I started listening to it back in two thousand and fifteen.
And when I'm caught up, I go back and listen
to old episodes. So I'm sorry, yeah, two thousand and fifteen,
but they were around longer than that. Um, So I
listened to old episodes. So that and then also, um,
what is that? Um? Revisionist history with Malcolm Love Malcolm.
I am obsessed with Malcolm Glad While he came to

(42:15):
the station once and I he was in the booth
with Michael Krasny, and I kind of sort of stocked
him through the window. But you know, I don't think
you'd mind. I think he was probably delighted by you
hanging around the window. I would be like, all right,
see you later, Michael. He sounded so happy on that way.
I have a thing for smart guys. We've talked about

(42:36):
this in the podcast before what's that guy's name? Good?
He's a political analyst and David Gargan, Oh, yeah, he's
very smart. I don't know what he looks like, though.
I thought you're gonna say, yeah, he's very hot, and
I was gonna be like, I need to go. I
would if he was, but I don't know. He's not well,
but he's really smart. So what about the brain with you? Yeah,
he got his brain. I also listened to the read

(43:00):
I've also been going back to listen to old episodes,
and it's interesting to hear their evolution, specifically opinions about
pop culture. In the beginning, they were like Iggy Azalea
is the coolest and the best, and now they're like, oh,
she is evil incarnate, dead to us, and things change.
And so it made me think twice about on our
show maybe saying go check out our back catalog because

(43:23):
maybe there's stuff like that in there. But we might
be like trumpeting some really problematic that is dangerous culture. Yeah,
but other than that, since that waster's answer, I'll give
something else food for thought, thought spelled tachot that hole
over there. Wait a minute, you know one of my
students was telling me to listen to that. So the

(43:45):
cover image are three peaches. They look like pots, and
it is for queer men from New York. One of
them is an indigenous poet, one of them is an
ex figure skater, one of them is a scientist, one
as an editor, and they all come together and talk
about books because they met at Tin House Residency in Seattle,

(44:06):
I think. And they also talk about what they like
to read and who they like to read, so that's
what they say. Um. So they talked about pop culture
as well, and the last episode was a book club,
so it's all you know. One minute they're talking about
like low down and dirty sex in a locker room,
and then they're like, so, what my favorite part about
this novel was? And so I like getting all of

(44:30):
that from these four boys. You like that high to
low switch back and I love a good pun thought
process or like spelled h O T. It's really cute. Um.
I feel like I constantly binge um the podcast how
did this get made? I love it so much. I
have the biggest crush on Jason's man zukas Um. I
just think that's so funny. Um. In terms of something

(44:51):
I actually listened to from start to finish, like intensely
Heaven's Gape. Glen Washington's expiration of that cult tons of
people died in it was great and um, it made
me feel better about the fact that I actually wanted
to make something about that topic myself. And then I
found out that Glen Washington was going to be making

(45:12):
a long form podcast about that topic, and I thought, well,
if anyone's going to do it, might as well be here.
I just had an idea for this is a question
just for you guys. Finish the sense the next big
thing is the next big thing is pretzel pizza. I
don't know, really just came to mind. You just make

(45:35):
it up. Was just something you've seen. Yeah, I was
just like, pretzel pizza sounds like a thing. Yeah. Well, um,
you guys have your fingers on the pulse of like
what's happening in hot right now? You're the hippest thing
that NPR has. You better we'll be stealing that quote

(45:56):
Mattie Stout from My Heart Radio says, that's on back
cover ever first and only book. Or do you want
me to go? I want you to go first. I
have a thinking time. Um, next it's not avocado toast.
I would love if we're gonna go with video podcasting

(46:18):
and it's going in that direction, what about a hologram
and we can just be like in full effect three
sixty degrees and you can talk to us about how
cute our butts are. I don't know, so we would
literally be into someone's living room, and I'll tell you what.
I appreciate you guys testing out that question for me.
I now know. Do not ask that question to anyone again,

(46:41):
because nobody seems to have an answer unless you have one.
Oh god, I'll be I'll be sincere all right, I'll
take the bait you were talking about people actually still
consuming long form stuff content novels. Just because you produce
something that's short like a text, doesn't mean you don't
like consuming longer stuff. And I think that stuff long
stuff is just going to keep getting longer. That's my sincere.

(47:06):
On I want to put that on my book stuff.
Don't twist my words now, please, Well, folks, I've had
so much fun. We'll do it again. We'll come up.
I want to have you guys on and we'll do
a show where we we do a podcast round up

(47:26):
or something, and um, I really appreciate carly A Jamdra
and Emmanuel, thank you, appreciate you, thank you, thank you
for coming on. So that was my favorite interview we've
done yet because they were here in studio. I agree,
I agree, And they were just so fun and personable

(47:47):
and it was cool to have the Facebook live and everything.
And I like them. And let me give you some
shout out there, z so and I heart Radio San Francisco.
We have a new system in place where we do
Facebook live, Twitter live and going to be YouTube all
at the same time in our studios. So this is
a new system and z is the one who was
running it. And so this first one we did for
Access podcast was one of the first ones we've done.

(48:10):
So good job. It looked great, Thank you very much.
It was fun to do. And they're good looking kids
like they should be on video. Mean not so much,
but what are you gonna do? Whatever? I mean, we can't. Yeah,
I'm not gonna say anything about that. Wow, you're supposed
to say no way, Matt oh wow. So this would
be a great day. We thought to talk about some

(48:31):
podcasts that NPR that are actually some of these are
radio shows that are also podcasts on NPR. But here's
the thing. NBR produces some great stuff and and most
people know them now is podcast more than radio shows. So, um,
I'm anxious to hear what you picked out, all right,
So the first one is a shout out to an
O G. It's This American Life. Yes, you can't go wrong. Yes,

(48:54):
and you know, This American Life broke all the barriers
for podcasting. It was the first podcast asked that that
I know in Stitcher that we when we got on,
it was immediately the most downloaded podcast we had. And
it's one of the first NPR shows to make more
money from podcasting than from the actual radio show. That yeah,
absolutely amazing. I like it because, like they'll hit on

(49:16):
topics like the me Too movement, But then they also
have an episode about how dogs and cats play a life,
like a role in your family, you know, just like
different topics that we think about. And I read Glass
obviously amazing storytellers. So let's hear a little bite from
This American Life. How they're in Her girlfriend go with
a cat named Sid. The girlfriend was always inventing these cute,

(49:37):
little affectionate nicknames for Sid. I never did that for Heather.
She was always praising Sid and asking Heather to pray Sid.
We never gave it that kind of approval to Heather.
Any think she was kind of detached when it came
to Heather. So even though it was just a cat
against her will, against her better judgment, how they started

(49:58):
to get jealous. I remember that I would sort of
wake up in the morning and I would hear her
saying things like you were so beautiful, you are a princess.
Look at you, and you know, as I opened my eyes,
I realized that she's talking not to me, but to
the cat. I feel like I should talk um more

(50:20):
dignified after listening to NPR. And by the way, if
you've never heard my Ira Glass story, go to episode
one of Access podcast where we're talking from to Seth Land,
who worked on This American Like. He's the operations director
for This American Life. I tell the story of how
when I talked to Ira Glass on the phone and
and and I felt like I was on an episode

(50:41):
of This American Life. Go check it out episode one. Okay,
my second one is a radio lab, which I didn't
hear about until you talked to Carla Marie and Anthony
about it and how you were saying it's a great podcast,
like if you're on a road trip, and I was.
I was on a long trip with a couple of
my cousin and recently and then I just listened to

(51:02):
it because I don't want to hear them talk, and
it was amazing. They're just like hour long, thirty minute
long episodes, and they're really good stories. Yes, Peabody Award
winning radio lab. I turn around and I see state
of similar, white state of similar ducking down behind their death.
If I'm not your hand, is this the way the
racist government works exercises it's constitutional rights. You can point

(51:29):
to this forgotten unknown moment here in the state building
in Sacramento as like the game changer for the conversation
about guns in America. I'm gonna be perfectly transparency. You
often hear me say to folks, podcasting creates empathy. Correct.
I took that from a jad Apple brom YouTube video

(51:51):
that I showed my classes where he talks about radio
creating empathy. But I show it to every class every
semester because it's it's really good looking up chat on radio.
If you if you want to find that on YouTube.
Last One, Last One Snap Judgment Judgment. Yeah, I really
like this. They had a recent one it's called Counted

(52:12):
in Oakland Story and it was about the year long
look at people who lost their lives to Oakland violence.
And I think because we're local and in the Bay area,
it just kind of hit home. Yeah, and the podcast
is national and it's very popular with the young folks.
Um it is. I would say it's more it's the
millennial this American life, that's what judgment. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

(52:34):
let's check it out. A lot of martyrs an Oveland
going solved, and then you got the revenge part when
the other killer get killed and then a nice killer
get killed, then the nice killer get killed, and it's
like they're wiping each other out. And then the ones
that's in jail, they're not getting charged because of the runaround.

(52:57):
We need a witness, we need somebody him. Then we
need to take the stand. So then once you do
tell him this person STI, you gotta go back to
the same neighborhood and then I'm gonna call you a snitch.
And then his friends and it might come like your
house of just because they know you went down to
the courthouse. I grew up seeing this ship all the dawntime,

(53:23):
bullet for bullet, blood for blood, revenge, good stuff, good
stuff this week. See you can leave that in there.
My voice just cracked like Peter Brady. Hey, good stuff Ze.
I'm still my voice is still not back a for

(53:46):
being sick with that. Yeah, and not the fact that
I'm still a pre perviouscence fur year old. Alright. Access
podcast has been produced by the one and only z
Zanyanya Always. But we'll keep trying, Zion. What's spelled wrong

(54:07):
on my thing wrong? Our engineers. I want to give
it up for engineer David Williams, who has made all
of the stuff happening, all the video stuff, the podcast studio. Uh.
He is the best radio engineer I have ever worked with.
David Williams, the best horse swan to great and Red,
They're all good. And shout out to Anna, Oh my god,

(54:28):
I'll forget about it and it's the best Anna, who
is working here on an exchange program from Drexel University.
And I just love seeing new talent come up through
the engineering our entire streaming system. Anna shout out to
girl Power. Look I'm standing up, Anna. I stand Up
for You. I Stand Up for You. She's great music

(54:49):
composed by the Casey Franco. A special thanks to Godfather Podcasting,
Chris Peterson, Don Parker, and Katie Wilcox at I Heart Radio,
and a shout out to Darren Jarren Davis, President into
my Heart Radio, who is really into the podcast. Follow
us on Facebook Access podcast, follow me at Maddie Stout
m A T T y s t A U g
t H. Also, how do people follow you? Z? It's

(55:13):
z d Elvis z D e A l w I
s on all platforms. Z's super cute, super cute. So
if you wanna, you wanna, you wanna check out how
cute she is and and she's funny, So check it
out and she you you you know what. I I
often will see your posts and feel like you're you're
like my age because like you'll be posting about television

(55:33):
and stuff. I'm like she just sitting home watching TV
like me. It makes me feel like I'm not so
out of touch. Um. Download the I Heart Radio app
and go to the podcast section. We've got thousands of
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