January 13, 2025 • 36 mins
"If you haven't ridden a bike, then you don't know how powerful they are. And I welcome anybody and celebrate anybody who you somehow uses bikes as a tool for change." — Zahra Alabanza, Radical Adventure Riders
Today we spoke with Zahra Alabanza, organizer at Radical Adventure Riders (RAR) about the organization's beginnings, purposefully creating a space within cycling for FTWNB and BIPOC, leaning into community resources, and so much more. RAR has made itself known within cycling as a resource for group rides to be radically inclusive.
Show notes:
- Zahra's reference to Erykah Badu's phrase, "over-lover" is from the song Out My Mind, Just In Time
- Radical Adventure Riders maintains a resource list on their website
- You can pick up your own sweet, sweet Lisa Frank-inspired RAR merch in their online store
- Grab your own digital copy of their Group Ride Guide here ($11)
- And finally keep your eyes peeled for their 2025 updates by following them on Instagram: @radical.adventure.riders
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Marley Blonsky (00:00):
Welcome back to the All Bodies on Bikes podcast.
(00:02):
How are you Ellen?
Ellen Schwartze (00:03):
Hey, I'm doing so well.
How are you doing Marley?
Marley Blonsky (00:05):
I'm doing really good.
It's nice to see your face.
Ellen Schwartze (00:08):
Yours too.
I always love your fancy glasses.
They're so cheery.
Marley Blonsky (00:12):
It's funny.
I've had them for six years nowand I'm like, it was like a zenny
optical kind of fast fashion purchase.
But at this point, they'veoutlived any of my other glasses.
So I think they're good.
Ellen Schwartze (00:22):
Did you spend money on them and therefore you won't lose
them, or are they cheapest chips andtherefore you're never going to lose them?
Marley Blonsky (00:27):
I think it's the latter.
They're, they were super cheap.
I only use them for computer workeverything else in my life has
random spots and doesn't ever makeit back to its home location, but
the glasses stay at my computer.
Anyway, that's not whatwe're here to talk about.
Ellen Schwartze (00:39):
It's not.
Okay.
Not a glasses podcast.
Marley Blonsky (00:42):
I'm really excited for today's podcast because I have a special
relationship with this organization.
I really credit it with, getting allbodies on bikes started and maybe
we can talk about that a little bit.
But let's dive right into it today.
We are talking withradical adventure writers.
Specifically
zara Alibonza.
From Radical Adventure Writers.
Radical Adventure Riders was foundedin 2017, and it's a movement towards
(01:06):
gender inclusivity and racialequity in cycling and the outdoors.
RAR Radical Adventure Riders, butwe're just gonna call it RAR they
do this by providing education,connection, resources, and support
for the community and industry.
RAR creates networks andprograms to support FTWNB.
Which will explain what thatmeans and BIPOC folks in the
(01:26):
cycling and outdoors scene.
Some of these programs includeregional chapters that host
inclusive rides, cycling industrypledge, a gear library, and more.
So speaking with us today is ZahraAl Abanza, who conjures enthusiasm
for life by practicing pleasure andplay, living simply and seeking joy.
Being a parent, organizer, creator,and adventure are a few roles
(01:49):
that allow her to explore thedepths of her pleasure and joy.
A project starting wandering overlover and outdoor junkie, she
utilizes experience in space curation,outdoor adventure, land based
work, wellness rituals, and being acreator as the root of her community
organizing efforts to enhance thequality of life among Black folk.
(02:10):
Her work centers Black women,children, and queer folks and meets
at the intersection of justice,Principled living, healing, quality
of life, and Black liberation.
She co founded Red, Bike, and GreenAtlanta and the Black Freedom Outfitters.
Welcome to the show.
Zahra Alabanza (02:26):
Thank you for having me.
It's a pleasure to be here with y'all.
Marley Blonsky (02:29):
Yeah, super excited to have you.
I love the term overlover.
I've never heard thatbefore, but I really love it.
Zahra Alabanza (02:36):
I thought if it's Erykah Badu, she said it in a song that I
really like and I was like, that applies,
Marley Blonsky (02:41):
yeah, I love that so much.
But I guess before we get too deepinto it, let's explain FTWNB and BIPOC.
Zahra, do you mind takingthose on and just telling us
what those acronyms stand for?
Zahra Alabanza (02:51):
Sure can.
So F T W N B is shorthand for femme,transgender women and non binary folks.
And then BIPOC is black,indigenous and people of color.
So both of these terms are as inclusiveas we can be, but also understand that
they are limited and that there arevery many identities, both gender and
racially in between all of those letters.
Marley Blonsky (03:12):
Awesome.
Thank you so much.
And I would hope that our audience isfamiliar with that, but you never know.
And if somebody can learn something,we always are here for that.
Ellen Schwartze (03:20):
And is it something where you're trying to center the
intersection of those two groups oris it truly like the Venn diagram is
both circles and it happens to overlap?
Zahra Alabanza (03:30):
I think it's not even that it happens to overlap that but both
groups are all of these letters deservethe space that they get standing alone,
and then there is an intersection ofthem where that becomes very important,
just due to the world that we live in.
And I'll use myself as an example beingblack femme queer and gender nonconforming
(03:51):
is an identity that looks a lotdifferent than being a cisgender person.
I'm going to say I am a cis woman,but being a black cis woman that
isn't queer or doesn't have any genderidentities that don't fit the norm.
So it's important to let them standalone, but absolutely important to
allow the intersection to exist.
Marley Blonsky (04:09):
Thanks.
Yeah.
RAR has been around for along time, founded in 2017.
I guess that makes you seven,almost eight years old now.
And I know that you're not a founder,but can you tell us a little bit
about the origins of the organization,and maybe more importantly, how it's
grown and evolved over the years?
Zahra Alabanza (04:24):
Yeah.
And I'll say that I probably can'tdo its origin story any justice cause
I'm not a founder, but I know thatit was came out of the love that six
different friends had for cyclingand wanting to be more visible in it.
And so they got together and came up withRAR, which wasn't named RAR at the time.
It was WTF women in transfemme, maybe is that acronym?
(04:46):
Forgive me, but it had atotally different name.
And I think as founders youlove what you've decided to do
specifically with your friends.
And then things happen.
People have different dreams, desiresfor themselves, and even how they
want to be part of an organization.
And they collectively made adecision to allow new leadership
(05:08):
into the organization while foundingleadership went on its own journey.
So Molly, who is one of the founders,is still present with the organization.
And I can't recall what year myselfand Grande came on, but we did and
we're still here and it had, we havecontributed to the direction that it's
(05:29):
went, which contributed to a new name.
It also contributed todifferent programming.
So where RAR used to have, or hadbeen known for this large event
that it did that brought thedemographic they represent together
and no longer hosts that event,but created, we created something.
That is a lot moresustainable with its chapters.
(05:50):
We have a number of chapters acrossthe country and one internationally.
And then we had a gravel team,which I think was really an amazing
opportunity to allow people to be likeadult athletes in a biking sport that.
Also is not the mainstreamof what we see biking as.
And so it's like this mashupof non traditional things.
(06:13):
Having people of different genderidentities and racial backgrounds be
on a gravel team participating in theAspect of biking that again, like I said,
isn't as popular or wasn't at the time.
I think gravel racing and writinghas become more popular, but still
isn't as mainstream as like roadracing or anything like that.
And it gave an opportunity for people tosee a part of our country that is like
(06:36):
off the beaten track as well, because it'snot surfaced and it also allowed folks
who don't, who you don't traditionallysee gravel riding have that opportunity.
So that was a great programthat also no longer exists.
And then we also had a scholarshipprogram that allowed folks to apply
and get gear and funding to createtheir own bike adventure, which
(06:57):
was one of my favorite programs.
But that is also it was beautiful whileit lasted, but it's expensive and hard
to keep funding because to me, it alwaysfeels like you're trying to prove why
people who are not white cis men deserveto have the space and finances and gear
to do something that, Is very liberating.
And while it's sad to see that go, it wasprobably my favorite adventure, reading
(07:20):
all of these applications that peopleexpress why they want to get on a bike
and plan a bike adventure, so now we haveour chapters and some of those chapters
have gear libraries, and we have ourjob list board where people can pay to
have jobs within the industry posted.
And we share that with ouron our platforms to the
(07:43):
demographics that follow us.
Ellen Schwartze (07:46):
Tell me more about this gear library.
I saw this in our show notes and Iwant to know, I want to understand
how it works, what the benefitsare, what's going on with this.
Zahra Alabanza (07:55):
So the Atlanta chapter has a really great example of the
gear library, which was run by Devin,who is one of the chapter managers.
And she did a really great jobdue to her relationship, sourcing
all kinds of necessary thingsthat you need for bikepacking.
And so everything from bikes topanniers and different kinds of bike
bags, to what you need to sleep in,just anything you can need You can
(08:20):
check out at the gear library atno cost, go have your adventure.
And they've done such agreat job cataloging it.
It's like a library and one of her coremembers of the Atlanta chapter, when
they started it, what is a librarian?
So that was really cool toutilize that mechanism to start.
to organize what their gear library wouldlook like and yeah, anybody can, not
(08:41):
anybody, but folks who identify with thedemographic can come and borrow gear and
take it on bike adventure for a set amountof time and return it when they're done.
What I generally love aboutgear libraries is not it.
I think our country or the worldis so capitalistic that they
want you to buy without evenknowing if you love a thing yet.
(09:02):
So what gear libraries allowyou to do is have an adventure,
decide if this is for you.
And if you love it so much to go buythings, you have, brands that you
use and approve that you can go buy.
If you're going to get your own gearfor it, but at the same time, if you
don't want to buy it because you livein a small apartment in said major city,
you don't have to, because the gearlibrary can be made available for you
(09:25):
just to continue to borrow the gear.
And I think what's also great withwhat the Atlanta chapter of RAR did
was, it wasn't a lot of used gear.
So a lot of gear libraries get piecemealedtogether by what people don't want, don't
need anymore, what they've grown outof, which often It can be great gear.
However, it can also be gearthat's falling apart and
(09:47):
not in its tip top shape.
And I think specifically for demographicsthat are also, that are often overlooked,
you don't want secondhand things thatmay not be in the best condition.
So Devin and Atlanta did a really good jobof getting tip top gear for people to have
the best experience the first time out.
Because I think if you don't havethe best experience the first
time you go out, it reduces thelikelihood that you will try it again.
(10:10):
So I think having tip top gear reallyencourages the best experience possible.
So I'm not, I can't recall off the topof my head how many chapters have gear
libraries or not, but it's something thatthe Atlanta chapter has done really well.
And they've presented on it.
And I want to say they, the gearlibraries came in at a time where the
(10:31):
culture was really ready and rightfor it, because I know of previous
attempts, not necessarily by RAR, butby other entities that people are like,
I don't know what a gear library is orwhy it would be of any use to anybody.
They never happened.
So the timing of when these wereproposed but was really good for RAR
and has proven to be really successfuleven to the point where I didn't meet
(10:55):
you there, Marley at Grit Fest, butpeople were able to borrow gear from
not only Grit Fest, but other, even inAtlanta, people were not from Atlanta.
Devin brought things over so peoplecould utilize while at Grit Fest.
So even now.
That's
Marley Blonsky (11:09):
awesome.
Zahra Alabanza (11:10):
The Atlanta gear library was supporting
people, which is really cool.
Marley Blonsky (11:13):
That's so cool.
Yeah, I, when I lived inSeattle, we had a tool library.
So similar but it's such a communitycare thing because you're right.
We don't all need to buy things.
And equipment is such a barrierfor folks getting into the type
of adventure cycling that RAR.
Promotes.
So I really love that.
What are some of the other primarybarriers that you've observed for
(11:35):
marginalized communities, like enteringthe outdoor or the cycling spaces
and how has RAR helped address those?
Zahra Alabanza (11:42):
Yeah, I think it's a really interesting
conversation that has happened.
And I want to say like the last 10 yearsabout who's in the outdoors and who's not.
And I want to say someone isdefining what the outdoors is and
it is not, It's not people of color.
It's not black folks.
It's not trans folks.
It's white cis people who run theseentities who have said, this is
(12:05):
what outdoor adventuring looks like.
And, or this is what outdoors looks like.
And I've always pushed backagainst at least black people not
being outdoors because we are.
It may not look the way that is beingpromoted, but we've always been outdoors
and we don't even need to go into thoseconversations, but it's always existed.
What I think is, so the narrativeis a barrier because it's
(12:28):
made us believe that people.
BIPOC folks are not outdoors,that trans folks are not outdoors.
And I think sometimes we ingestthat in a way that makes it
more true than it actually is.
And just because we're not seeing itdoesn't mean it's not occurring, right?
And so I say that we are outdoors, we ofcourse can always be outdoors more, but
(12:51):
we are outdoors and the barriers are real.
But we still find a way, even ifit's out of no way, which means
that if we needed to create a gearlibrary or borrow something from my
friend who I knew one time did thisthing, but had this thing, we do it.
We piecemeal our experiences together.
And I think it makes for a reallyunique experience, but barriers
are always like finances, right?
(13:11):
And where you live in this country.
And as well as the narrativesthat say it's not safe for you.
And I find it interesting thatwe can live in urban spaces.
hear gunshots and notthink twice about it.
Like it's just part of thewhite noise in the background.
And then when someone says, let'sgo outside there, bears come up and
I'm like, we're, I'm always like thelikelihood one bears don't exist in said
(13:35):
area that you're going to go outside.
The likelihood that you're going torun into wildlife so close that you
feel endangered is slim to none.
And if you do, I hope that you arelike prepared in a way that you can
recognize how to keep yourself safe.
But these narratives we tellourselves and that have been
told to us become the barriers.
The movies that always have somebodybeing killed outside on the beach
(14:00):
or in the back country creates asense of fear that doesn't even
allow folks to be curious about.
And then people don't even recognizeoftentimes because of the hustle
and bustle and the demand to keepup with, our basic needs via labor
and capitalism, you don't evenrealize what's in your back door.
And so it always looks like I need tobuy a plane ticket, get on a train and
(14:24):
go somewhere far away from the urbansetting I live in to experience outdoors.
And again, that's false.
City cities aren't all greatwith creating outdoor spaces.
But in most majorcities, there are trails.
There are opportunitiesfor you to get outside.
And so I think the main barrier isbelieving the hype that the outdoors
isn't for us and that we're not out thereand that it needs to look a certain way.
(14:49):
And then I think that finances dobecome a barrier or not knowing
anybody else who has done it beforeyou so that you can borrow something
or have a conversation with somebodyabout what that experience is like.
And then fear is real, right?
Like we've been told these stories forso long that they become real to us.
And I think we need todemystify it rather than.
(15:10):
constantly having the conversationabout the things that are
external of our ability to change.
The commercials are diversifying, butit doesn't mean that it's going to
make you feel safer to go outside.
So if it's something you really want todo, how do we take that control into,
how do we get power of that so that wecan create narratives that make us really
excited and curious about the outdoors?
Ellen Schwartze (15:32):
Yeah.
So there's someone to ask.
I think is an important part likesomeone who you are comfortable talking
to and who has a shared experienceof so that you can just feel free to
just like fire off these questionsone after one and like assuage that
anxiety that you might feel of gettinginto whatever activity you might do.
I think that's really important.
So you guys are basically like
Zahra Alabanza (15:51):
God.
No, go ahead.
Go ahead.
I'm sorry.
Ellen Schwartze (15:53):
Oh, you're very purposely creating those the The
place for someone to go to ask.
Zahra Alabanza (15:59):
Yeah.
And that's part of accessibility, right?
So I think that the internet makesit and these social media platforms,
being able to see visuals and getstories shared by people who do it,
who are also welcome, welcoming topeople, asking them questions, right?
I think there's a way it can be done whereit doesn't feel accessible or safe to ask
questions, but then there's a way to do itwhere it's come ask me all the questions.
(16:21):
Cause I just finished this adventure.
And I would love to answer all yourquestions so that you can go create
your own adventure or do the onethat I just did or whatever it is.
Yeah.
Ellen Schwartze (16:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
And it also made me think, when yousaid the thing about bears, it made
me think about, because I am more ofa commuter cyclist, and if someone's
not familiar with cycling in a city,they'll just be like, oh my gosh, it's
so dangerous for you to ride in the city.
It's you are more dangerous in your car.
Statistically speaking, butwe're not taking those away.
We're not saying anybody like, don'tbe careful every time you get in your
(16:52):
car, which you should do, but it'snot like someone does not gasp out
loud at your habits of doing this,even though you are actually safer.
So changing that narrative can be.
A big part of I think it's an importantpart of what all of this entails as well.
Zahra Alabanza (17:07):
Absolutely.
And I do gas every time I need toget in the car in the city I'm like,
I always ask people can you drive meor pick me up because I don't want
to deal with what it's like to drive.
Some places in Atlanta being one ofthem I think people do gas when they
have to get in their car, even though.
Or stops them from doing it or choosinga different mode of transportation,
(17:27):
but we guess for sure I had
Ellen Schwartze (17:29):
a friend in town last weekend and I'm a feminist but my husband
drives most of the time for that forwhat you just said because I hate it.
So I had to like the GPS on andI still missed like seven exits
and she must think that I am.
On the driving level, just a totalidiot, because it's I live here, but
I don't know what these roads do.
I stay on small roads most of the time.
(17:50):
Because you're usually hiking.
Yeah.
Exactly, yeah, it's like, if you want meto go on the surface streets, I can do
that, but what is this I 35 happening?
Marley Blonsky (18:01):
I'm curious to learn more about the chapters.
All bodies on bikes has chapters.
And I'm just curious to learn more,what does the chapter structure
what kind of activities do they do?
What does that look like?
Zahra Alabanza (18:11):
So it's funny because that was my first project when I came on.
Because I couldn't create chapterswith Red, Biking Green because of
the lack of finances and just thekind of support that's necessary.
I offered it to RAR and I was like,chapters are the way to go because
it gives a lot of autonomy, right?
And it gives a lot ofspace for creativity.
But we started off, ooh, and thesenumbers, please don't quote me, y'all.
(18:34):
But I think we started off with We did anapplication process, created a structure
where it was like you need to have a coregroup, these are some of the skills you
need for your core group you need to doa certain percentage, I think we said had
to be BIPOC, but we've always refined thatbecause, for instance, there's a chapter
in Utah, we want the percentage of BIPOCpeople to at least match or mirror to
(18:56):
a particular extent the percentage thatexists within the city, but we can't
ask like Utah to have a predominantlyBIPOC chapter because it's Utah.
That is not the makeup of the demographic.
Ellen Schwartze (19:06):
I don't get it.
Is there something aboutUtah that I don't know?
Haha, I kid.
Zahra Alabanza (19:13):
No so we had some like measurements about what.
racially what the makeup should be, whatyour core group should look like, that
it should exist, it should have theseroles and that you, I think, have one
or two adventures, like a backpackingexperiences within a year's span of time.
(19:34):
Whatever those like initial measuremeasurements were, we found it challenging
to monitor that with what we had.
So we brought on co chapterleads, which are Devin and Kai.
Devin runs Atlanta chapter.
Kai runs the New Haven chapter.
And they created a lot of structurethat makes these chapters run more
smoothly because we seen a lot of gapsand things that weren't being met.
(19:56):
So what I, or what we noticed originallywas like, The chapters that were
more BIPOC oriented had a harder timecreating, the bike adventures that were
necessary, and we assume it was becauseof the amount of labor that they have
to do for their own lives that didn'tafford them the privilege and space
and time to be so into their chapterthat they could meet the requirements.
(20:17):
And so it was like, whatcan we do to support that?
Grande would be someone whosupported the Bay Area chapter to
help them troubleshoot, to offermore resources and things like that.
And when we got the chaptermanagers, that's what they also
started to do per for each chapter.
So they have office hours, they have,so mandatory office hours, and then
like more flexible office hours.
(20:37):
And then there's these workshop serieson how to engage different demographics.
So for example, if, I look at it from anorganizing standpoint, which is you need
to have one on ones in your community.
If you're not seeing who you want toshow up in your space, you need to go
find out why and where people are, whichmeans they may not be coming to your
ride, but if you're welcome that theirride, then that's where you need to be
(20:59):
going and build authentic relationships.
And my perspective was.
that our chapters became micro, evenmore microcosmics of the communities we
live in that are very isolated racially,that even gender wise are very isolated.
And you recognize it's really hard forpeople to get out of their own way and
authentically meet people who don't lookAnd act and live the lives that you live,
(21:23):
but in order to diversify, you have to.
And so that's something thatthe chapters had a process.
The chapters have to go through islook at itself, look at its city,
look at the country we live in.
And it answers the questionwhy, your chapter may not look
the way you want it to look.
And then RAR chapter managersoffer resources to push through
that to be a soundboard.
(21:44):
To brainstorm with them to getto where they would like to go.
We got lucky to get aninternational chapter.
Australia is our international chapter.
But it was really an honor to see thateven internationally people, vibed
with what RAR was offering and applied.
When we first started, there werechapters that were funded and
chapters that were unfunded, andthat was based on what chapters said.
(22:07):
Chapter was like, no, wedon't need the funding.
We were like, great, we can offer it toa chapter that does need the funding.
And we created more infrastructurearound that to like, support
people spending the money.
I think sometimes people don't wantto spend money because it's then
I don't have any money, but thenit's you're not utilizing the money
for what it could be used for.
So just encouraging onhow it could be spent.
(22:28):
And I think that's a really coolperk because it could go to flyers.
It could go for food at your meetings.
It can go to a number of differentthings that support the the chapter,
even if it's not getting gear or,Paying fees towards an adventure.
It still is supporting it like back ofthe house front of the house kind of idea.
And that feels really good.
(22:49):
To core members who don't have to comeout of their own pocket to figure out
how to pay for these things that theydon't even realize will become like a
fee because It's only in the detailsyou recognize should cost money,
Marley Blonsky (23:01):
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
Oh
Zahra Alabanza (23:02):
yeah.
I love that.
We can offer some fundingto the chapters as well.
Marley Blonsky (23:05):
How do you guys get that funding?
Are you fundraising?
Is it grants?
What is that?
It's all
Zahra Alabanza (23:09):
of the above.
So we do some fundraising.
We do have some sponsorsand then we sell merch.
So there's that, thatgenerates revenue as well.
I was hoping you would mentionthat because the merch is so cute.
Molly is gangsta.
She creates these items and wekeep Lisa Frank in our back pocket.
So if you ever look at some of the moresome of like our handkerchiefs and stuff
(23:33):
like that, it has a little Lisa Frankvibe, cheers to the eighties babies.
And she just does a really great jobdesigning this merch and people love it.
Ellen Schwartze (23:40):
Yeah.
I want to just revisit one ofthe things you said in there.
It was like how to get the chapters toreflect who is in your community and
how to purposely reach out to them.
Are there resources that otherpeople could reference without
being part of RAR for that?
Because I think that as we thinkof the political climate, I do
think that's something that is.
important moving forward for us topurposefully be running into people
(24:02):
who we don't share exact views with.
Zahra Alabanza (24:05):
Yeah so RAR has a resource page.
I couldn't tell you what's on it rightnow, but that is a great place to start.
Ellen Schwartze (24:12):
I
Zahra Alabanza (24:14):
always say,
There's a ton of resources.
People have to be interested enoughto go seek them out, and I don't think
that there's a cookie cutter fit forany one community that would work.
It really does take people's effortto say, this is something that's
important for me to understand andwork through, towards, and beyond,
(24:34):
to go find the resources that fitthe groups that they're working with.
I think that a lot of labor has goneinto creating resources to understand
non cis people, non heterosexual people.
To understand BIPOC folks.
And it's just go find that.
And to expect that someone is justgoing to hand it to you in a way that
like makes complete sense to you, yourchapter, your community is not fair, but
(24:57):
the resources are out there and you canpiecemeal them together and gain a lot
of knowledge that will truly enhance howyou approach the work that you're doing.
And that's any.
Any work that wants to addressmarginalized communities and
communities that aren't wellrepresented in mass culture.
Marley Blonsky (25:12):
Yeah, we'll put a link to that page on our within the show notes.
But one of my favorite things is theguiding principles that I think came
up from the WTF bike Explorers retreat.
But as transitioned into this biggerthing and it's like just it's these 10
principles that, I think people shouldlive their lives by and I won't go into
all of them, but, just even the firstone of trusting intent, but acknowledging
(25:35):
impact absorbing this into my life hasbeen huge of, I screw up sometimes and
acknowledging that has an impact on otherpeople has been absolutely huge so we
will put a link to it But I recommendpeople check out the guiding principles
because they really do help you Especiallyif you're in a white heterosexual
body cisgender body I don't know whyI put heterosexual in there Anyway,
(25:56):
if you're of the It's fine if you're
Ellen Schwartze (25:59):
calling me out, I don't mind.
Marley Blonsky (26:00):
You're not lucky enough to be queer, sorry.
Ellen Schwartze (26:06):
But it is it is a bit of even this is a little example here.
It was like, I'm sittinghere okay, so where do I go?
And you're like, you go wherever , yoursearch takes you, but you do it.
Zahra Alabanza (26:16):
Yeah, that's important.
And I appreciate y'all bringingup the guiding principles.
Cause I think they are likea baseline at the very least.
And a lot of entitieshave them these days.
So it's and they paralleleach other so much.
And then I think RAR has a rideguide that also is if you don't know
how to do this is also some supporton figuring out how you can create
(26:36):
rides that are very inclusive andsafe for everybody who's on there,
Marley Blonsky (26:41):
I'm so glad you called that out.
Cause the ride guide we, it's aPDF that you can purchase which.
Pay the money, buy the PDF, andit is an incredible resource for
anybody who leads group rides.
It's really for all bodies on bikes,it's what we've built a lot of our
work off of, because it is absolutelyincredible and really highlights a lot
of things that I wouldn't necessarilyhave thought about as a ride leader.
(27:02):
So thank you for that.
That's awesome to hear that it's useful.
It's very useful.
Thank you.
And it's designed supercute and it's awesome.
Zahra Alabanza (27:09):
Yeah.
It takes you, it's likean activity book, right?
You remember saying mash and allthat stuff on the inside too.
Super fun.
Marley Blonsky (27:17):
Yeah.
So we'll put up a link to that as well.
Let me go back to my list of questions.
Ellen, you got anything?
I do.
I think I'm
Ellen Schwartze (27:24):
curious.
You talked a lot about what R.
A.
R.
has become to this point.
What's happening next?
What's in the future?
What's on the horizon?
Zahra Alabanza (27:32):
I think you got to wait and find out.
There are things brewing, but I'mnot at liberty to say because those
conversations are still happening.
I think you can expect somechanges that benefit, people in RAR
leadership that can be invisibilizedand give more breathing room.
And so those conversations arestill happening and very important.
(27:53):
I think that focusing on what existsnow is also really important so that we
don't lose what RAR like currently is.
And I think RAR also does areally good job of archiving.
I was looking back at the websiteand it went through the process
that we did for the name change.
And so when those changes do occur,it'll be really shared very well of
(28:15):
the who, what, where, why, and when,and how we got to where we're going.
And it is part of Making sure we controlthat narrative rather than what can
easily happen when things change andpeople don't like them or they love
them so much they take on a narrative oftheir own, but right has done a really
good job of controlling its narrative.
And so I'm also really excitedto see how we choose to tell
(28:37):
the story of what is next.
Ellen Schwartze (28:39):
Oh, I love this teasing.
What's your timeline?
When should people belooking out for said news?
Do you know that yet?
Zahra Alabanza (28:45):
I don't know for sure, but 2025, so broad, keep everybody exposed.
Ellen Schwartze (28:51):
That is anywhere from 1 to 13 months from now.
Enjoy.
Marley Blonsky (28:56):
I love the transparency of it though, because I think it really
does, it's leadership and it's showingother orgs that like, it's okay to have
these hard conversations and to adaptand evolve as your community changes.
So kudos on that, because it's hard.
Zahra Alabanza (29:09):
And I would also say as leadership changes, right?
Going from a founding group to onlyhaving one founder and a bunch of other
people that believe in the work of RARcoming together and having to learn
each other and all these great things.
We're a great group of Iwould say friends actually.
And I don't think people consider.
often enough, and you all probablyhave experiences as well, how hard
(29:32):
it is to create space and thingsthat other people will utilize.
People will love to get in thecomments and have shit to say.
And it's wait a minute, we've been to,and this space was created for all of
us to enjoy and it didn't exist before.
And there's often not a blueprint.
So don't come trying to attack usor have such critique that it makes
the people, the very people who aremaking the offering not feel good.
(29:54):
And reminding people through all of theseprocesses that like, We're people too.
And be easy.
And our pace is not necessarily asone of corporate America, which I
think people are accustomed to whenyou put in a complaint, you get an
automatic response and a resolution.
And it's no, we're real people tryingto be transparent and hold integrity
(30:15):
while we deal with anything, and soit's we move at the pace of being human.
And that's a very real thing, which iswhy one to 13 months is Who knows what
will happen in our decision making.
Marley Blonsky (30:26):
Yeah.
And that's perfectly okay.
Cause you all have lives outsideof RAR and your parents and your
community members and all these things.
I love that gentle reminderto Hey, be patient folks.
Like we're creating community foryou and we're building this for you.
Ellen Schwartze (30:39):
But it's also a bit of a, moment to say it doesn't have
to be the pace of corporate America.
It's fine to take its time.
I think all bodies on bikes has donea good job too of saying we're going
to purposely grow sustainably in away that because at the moment it's
really just, it's Marley and the boardand it's a few other people who are
like, we're surrounded by good people,but you can't put it all on Marley's
shoulders and expect it To just fly.
(31:01):
You can, Marley's amazing, but if we'renot trying to burn Marley out immediately,
you have to do this differently.
So like pushing back againstthe hustle, I think the hustle.
Yeah.
And this expectation, even like theway that you said it with taking
your complaint to corporate America.
Yeah, you're not, you might not getyour ticket logged to the way you think.
(31:21):
And it might just be thatthe answer is no, like.
We're expecting whoever wecomplain to, to fix our problem.
And if you're not going to show up andbe part of the solution and something
like RAR and something that is so newand growing, then you might like, noted.
And we'll let you know.
Zahra Alabanza (31:39):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I I commend all founders and Icommend the one person teams with boards
and the people who live a lot of lives,but yet still find the space to offer
something to the larger community.
Cause the blood, sweat and tearsand the sacrifice, and you don't
even recognize the sacrifice causeyou're like, I love this thing.
And then you look up and you're like,holy shit, like how do you continue?
(32:01):
And then you have to realizeyou, we get to create.
What an entity can look like that alignswith how the people we love and care
about move and exist in the world.
And it is at a completely different pace.
It's like at the pace of riding a bicycle.
On and on.
Ayo.
Marley Blonsky (32:18):
Yes, I love that.
I love that.
I'm hoping folks are going tohear this and be like, Oh my God,
I want to learn more about RAR.
I want to get involved.
Obviously, people can go to the websiteand look it up on Instagram but if
people are interested in coming on aride, coming on a campout and they fit
into the FTWNB BIPOC umbrella do youhave any advice that you would give them
for folks who are curious or, like, howshould they show up to these spaces?
Zahra Alabanza (32:41):
Just go.
I think sometimes we put so muchthought behind things and I get it.
We live in a world that's created so muchanxiety that you're like, do I fit in?
Do I this?
Can I this?
And it's excuse my language,but fuck around and find out.
And you'll probably find out that itwasn't as bad or hard as you made it seem
when you were pondering it in your mind.
You showed up, peoplewere really welcoming.
(33:01):
And maybe they weren'tbecause I don't know.
I've heard of recent experiences wheresome, something wasn't as welcoming,
but we can troubleshoot that.
I think that's the most beautiful thing isthe people who come to something like RAR
are open to critique and will shift when,and if it makes sense for them to shift,
to meet the needs of the people that theywant on the rides or that deserve to be
(33:22):
on the rides, need to be taking up spaceon the rides and it's trial and error.
I don't think, so yeah, I'm like,if you're interested, come on out.
Bring what bike you have, all bodieswelcome, come, I when I was at Griffith
I wear tutus on adventures, right?
And it makes me feel howbiking makes me feel.
I think there are very few spaceswhere your whole self can show up.
(33:45):
I think RAR is one of thefew spaces where literally.
Who and how you are, as long as it's notcausing harm to anybody, is going to be
welcomed and gives us all an opportunityto get out of our boxes and who, and
associate and work and play with people,not these like, Forms of people we have
(34:06):
to become because society puts a lot ofpressure on us like riding bikes It's
one of the most liberating things andit is welcoming for you to be exactly
who and how you are without harm So comeon show up and let's see what happens.
Ellen Schwartze (34:19):
I Cannot picture a more perfect way to wrap up this conversation
and then with what you just said that waswonderful And if that's the spirit of all
bodies on bikes, it's the spirit of raw.
I think that's the spirit of alot of people who are starting to
form these wildly inclusive andpurposefully inclusive spaces.
We've talked with some great people,Marley, just on this podcast alone.
(34:41):
And it's I am so honored, I think, tojust be part of creating these things.
And I am really glad to havetalked to you as a wrath.
So
Zahra Alabanza (34:48):
yeah.
Yeah it's a pleasure.
And I think it's important whatyou all offer the space y'all offer
for people to share about theirexperiences with, bicycles, y'all,
we get to talk about fun, right?
I, but I also thinkthey're really beautiful.
These entities are really beautiful placeto deal with the hard shit in the world
(35:08):
when you have like your favorite toy withyou all the time, or your toy is a tool.
And yeah, I just, It's if youhaven't rode a bike, then you
don't know how powerful they are.
And I welcome anybody andcelebrate anybody who you somehow
uses bikes as a tool for change.
So thank you for thepodcast and having RAR on.
Ellen Schwartze (35:28):
Thank you for joining us.
We hope that every listener has thecourage to fuck around and find out
at some point in 2025 with you guys.
Zahra Alabanza (35:36):
Sounds great.
Ellen Schwartze (35:38):
Awesome.
Welcome back to the All Bodies on Bikes podcast.
(00:02):
How are you Ellen?
Ellen Schwartze (00:03):
Hey, I'm doing so well.
How are you doing Marley?
Marley Blonsky (00:05):
I'm doing really good.
It's nice to see your face.
Ellen Schwartze (00:08):
Yours too.
I always love your fancy glasses.
They're so cheery.
Marley Blonsky (00:12):
It's funny.
I've had them for six years nowand I'm like, it was like a zenny
optical kind of fast fashion purchase.
But at this point, they'veoutlived any of my other glasses.
So I think they're good.
Ellen Schwartze (00:22):
Did you spend money on them and therefore you won't lose
them, or are they cheapest chips andtherefore you're never going to lose them?
Marley Blonsky (00:27):
I think it's the latter.
They're, they were super cheap.
I only use them for computer workeverything else in my life has
random spots and doesn't ever makeit back to its home location, but
the glasses stay at my computer.
Anyway, that's not whatwe're here to talk about.
Ellen Schwartze (00:39):
It's not.
Okay.
Not a glasses podcast.
Marley Blonsky (00:42):
I'm really excited for today's podcast because I have a special
relationship with this organization.
I really credit it with, getting allbodies on bikes started and maybe
we can talk about that a little bit.
But let's dive right into it today.
We are talking withradical adventure writers.
Specifically
zara Alibonza.
From Radical Adventure Writers.
Radical Adventure Riders was foundedin 2017, and it's a movement towards
(01:06):
gender inclusivity and racialequity in cycling and the outdoors.
RAR Radical Adventure Riders, butwe're just gonna call it RAR they
do this by providing education,connection, resources, and support
for the community and industry.
RAR creates networks andprograms to support FTWNB.
Which will explain what thatmeans and BIPOC folks in the
(01:26):
cycling and outdoors scene.
Some of these programs includeregional chapters that host
inclusive rides, cycling industrypledge, a gear library, and more.
So speaking with us today is ZahraAl Abanza, who conjures enthusiasm
for life by practicing pleasure andplay, living simply and seeking joy.
Being a parent, organizer, creator,and adventure are a few roles
(01:49):
that allow her to explore thedepths of her pleasure and joy.
A project starting wandering overlover and outdoor junkie, she
utilizes experience in space curation,outdoor adventure, land based
work, wellness rituals, and being acreator as the root of her community
organizing efforts to enhance thequality of life among Black folk.
(02:10):
Her work centers Black women,children, and queer folks and meets
at the intersection of justice,Principled living, healing, quality
of life, and Black liberation.
She co founded Red, Bike, and GreenAtlanta and the Black Freedom Outfitters.
Welcome to the show.
Zahra Alabanza (02:26):
Thank you for having me.
It's a pleasure to be here with y'all.
Marley Blonsky (02:29):
Yeah, super excited to have you.
I love the term overlover.
I've never heard thatbefore, but I really love it.
Zahra Alabanza (02:36):
I thought if it's Erykah Badu, she said it in a song that I
really like and I was like, that applies,
Marley Blonsky (02:41):
yeah, I love that so much.
But I guess before we get too deepinto it, let's explain FTWNB and BIPOC.
Zahra, do you mind takingthose on and just telling us
what those acronyms stand for?
Zahra Alabanza (02:51):
Sure can.
So F T W N B is shorthand for femme,transgender women and non binary folks.
And then BIPOC is black,indigenous and people of color.
So both of these terms are as inclusiveas we can be, but also understand that
they are limited and that there arevery many identities, both gender and
racially in between all of those letters.
Marley Blonsky (03:12):
Awesome.
Thank you so much.
And I would hope that our audience isfamiliar with that, but you never know.
And if somebody can learn something,we always are here for that.
Ellen Schwartze (03:20):
And is it something where you're trying to center the
intersection of those two groups oris it truly like the Venn diagram is
both circles and it happens to overlap?
Zahra Alabanza (03:30):
I think it's not even that it happens to overlap that but both
groups are all of these letters deservethe space that they get standing alone,
and then there is an intersection ofthem where that becomes very important,
just due to the world that we live in.
And I'll use myself as an example beingblack femme queer and gender nonconforming
(03:51):
is an identity that looks a lotdifferent than being a cisgender person.
I'm going to say I am a cis woman,but being a black cis woman that
isn't queer or doesn't have any genderidentities that don't fit the norm.
So it's important to let them standalone, but absolutely important to
allow the intersection to exist.
Marley Blonsky (04:09):
Thanks.
Yeah.
RAR has been around for along time, founded in 2017.
I guess that makes you seven,almost eight years old now.
And I know that you're not a founder,but can you tell us a little bit
about the origins of the organization,and maybe more importantly, how it's
grown and evolved over the years?
Zahra Alabanza (04:24):
Yeah.
And I'll say that I probably can'tdo its origin story any justice cause
I'm not a founder, but I know thatit was came out of the love that six
different friends had for cyclingand wanting to be more visible in it.
And so they got together and came up withRAR, which wasn't named RAR at the time.
It was WTF women in transfemme, maybe is that acronym?
(04:46):
Forgive me, but it had atotally different name.
And I think as founders youlove what you've decided to do
specifically with your friends.
And then things happen.
People have different dreams, desiresfor themselves, and even how they
want to be part of an organization.
And they collectively made adecision to allow new leadership
(05:08):
into the organization while foundingleadership went on its own journey.
So Molly, who is one of the founders,is still present with the organization.
And I can't recall what year myselfand Grande came on, but we did and
we're still here and it had, we havecontributed to the direction that it's
(05:29):
went, which contributed to a new name.
It also contributed todifferent programming.
So where RAR used to have, or hadbeen known for this large event
that it did that brought thedemographic they represent together
and no longer hosts that event,but created, we created something.
That is a lot moresustainable with its chapters.
(05:50):
We have a number of chapters acrossthe country and one internationally.
And then we had a gravel team,which I think was really an amazing
opportunity to allow people to be likeadult athletes in a biking sport that.
Also is not the mainstreamof what we see biking as.
And so it's like this mashupof non traditional things.
(06:13):
Having people of different genderidentities and racial backgrounds be
on a gravel team participating in theAspect of biking that again, like I said,
isn't as popular or wasn't at the time.
I think gravel racing and writinghas become more popular, but still
isn't as mainstream as like roadracing or anything like that.
And it gave an opportunity for people tosee a part of our country that is like
(06:36):
off the beaten track as well, because it'snot surfaced and it also allowed folks
who don't, who you don't traditionallysee gravel riding have that opportunity.
So that was a great programthat also no longer exists.
And then we also had a scholarshipprogram that allowed folks to apply
and get gear and funding to createtheir own bike adventure, which
(06:57):
was one of my favorite programs.
But that is also it was beautiful whileit lasted, but it's expensive and hard
to keep funding because to me, it alwaysfeels like you're trying to prove why
people who are not white cis men deserveto have the space and finances and gear
to do something that, Is very liberating.
And while it's sad to see that go, it wasprobably my favorite adventure, reading
(07:20):
all of these applications that peopleexpress why they want to get on a bike
and plan a bike adventure, so now we haveour chapters and some of those chapters
have gear libraries, and we have ourjob list board where people can pay to
have jobs within the industry posted.
And we share that with ouron our platforms to the
(07:43):
demographics that follow us.
Ellen Schwartze (07:46):
Tell me more about this gear library.
I saw this in our show notes and Iwant to know, I want to understand
how it works, what the benefitsare, what's going on with this.
Zahra Alabanza (07:55):
So the Atlanta chapter has a really great example of the
gear library, which was run by Devin,who is one of the chapter managers.
And she did a really great jobdue to her relationship, sourcing
all kinds of necessary thingsthat you need for bikepacking.
And so everything from bikes topanniers and different kinds of bike
bags, to what you need to sleep in,just anything you can need You can
(08:20):
check out at the gear library atno cost, go have your adventure.
And they've done such agreat job cataloging it.
It's like a library and one of her coremembers of the Atlanta chapter, when
they started it, what is a librarian?
So that was really cool toutilize that mechanism to start.
to organize what their gear library wouldlook like and yeah, anybody can, not
(08:41):
anybody, but folks who identify with thedemographic can come and borrow gear and
take it on bike adventure for a set amountof time and return it when they're done.
What I generally love aboutgear libraries is not it.
I think our country or the worldis so capitalistic that they
want you to buy without evenknowing if you love a thing yet.
(09:02):
So what gear libraries allowyou to do is have an adventure,
decide if this is for you.
And if you love it so much to go buythings, you have, brands that you
use and approve that you can go buy.
If you're going to get your own gearfor it, but at the same time, if you
don't want to buy it because you livein a small apartment in said major city,
you don't have to, because the gearlibrary can be made available for you
(09:25):
just to continue to borrow the gear.
And I think what's also great withwhat the Atlanta chapter of RAR did
was, it wasn't a lot of used gear.
So a lot of gear libraries get piecemealedtogether by what people don't want, don't
need anymore, what they've grown outof, which often It can be great gear.
However, it can also be gearthat's falling apart and
(09:47):
not in its tip top shape.
And I think specifically for demographicsthat are also, that are often overlooked,
you don't want secondhand things thatmay not be in the best condition.
So Devin and Atlanta did a really good jobof getting tip top gear for people to have
the best experience the first time out.
Because I think if you don't havethe best experience the first
time you go out, it reduces thelikelihood that you will try it again.
(10:10):
So I think having tip top gear reallyencourages the best experience possible.
So I'm not, I can't recall off the topof my head how many chapters have gear
libraries or not, but it's something thatthe Atlanta chapter has done really well.
And they've presented on it.
And I want to say they, the gearlibraries came in at a time where the
(10:31):
culture was really ready and rightfor it, because I know of previous
attempts, not necessarily by RAR, butby other entities that people are like,
I don't know what a gear library is orwhy it would be of any use to anybody.
They never happened.
So the timing of when these wereproposed but was really good for RAR
and has proven to be really successfuleven to the point where I didn't meet
(10:55):
you there, Marley at Grit Fest, butpeople were able to borrow gear from
not only Grit Fest, but other, even inAtlanta, people were not from Atlanta.
Devin brought things over so peoplecould utilize while at Grit Fest.
So even now.
That's
Marley Blonsky (11:09):
awesome.
Zahra Alabanza (11:10):
The Atlanta gear library was supporting
people, which is really cool.
Marley Blonsky (11:13):
That's so cool.
Yeah, I, when I lived inSeattle, we had a tool library.
So similar but it's such a communitycare thing because you're right.
We don't all need to buy things.
And equipment is such a barrierfor folks getting into the type
of adventure cycling that RAR.
Promotes.
So I really love that.
What are some of the other primarybarriers that you've observed for
(11:35):
marginalized communities, like enteringthe outdoor or the cycling spaces
and how has RAR helped address those?
Zahra Alabanza (11:42):
Yeah, I think it's a really interesting
conversation that has happened.
And I want to say like the last 10 yearsabout who's in the outdoors and who's not.
And I want to say someone isdefining what the outdoors is and
it is not, It's not people of color.
It's not black folks.
It's not trans folks.
It's white cis people who run theseentities who have said, this is
(12:05):
what outdoor adventuring looks like.
And, or this is what outdoors looks like.
And I've always pushed backagainst at least black people not
being outdoors because we are.
It may not look the way that is beingpromoted, but we've always been outdoors
and we don't even need to go into thoseconversations, but it's always existed.
What I think is, so the narrativeis a barrier because it's
(12:28):
made us believe that people.
BIPOC folks are not outdoors,that trans folks are not outdoors.
And I think sometimes we ingestthat in a way that makes it
more true than it actually is.
And just because we're not seeing itdoesn't mean it's not occurring, right?
And so I say that we are outdoors, we ofcourse can always be outdoors more, but
(12:51):
we are outdoors and the barriers are real.
But we still find a way, even ifit's out of no way, which means
that if we needed to create a gearlibrary or borrow something from my
friend who I knew one time did thisthing, but had this thing, we do it.
We piecemeal our experiences together.
And I think it makes for a reallyunique experience, but barriers
are always like finances, right?
(13:11):
And where you live in this country.
And as well as the narrativesthat say it's not safe for you.
And I find it interesting thatwe can live in urban spaces.
hear gunshots and notthink twice about it.
Like it's just part of thewhite noise in the background.
And then when someone says, let'sgo outside there, bears come up and
I'm like, we're, I'm always like thelikelihood one bears don't exist in said
(13:35):
area that you're going to go outside.
The likelihood that you're going torun into wildlife so close that you
feel endangered is slim to none.
And if you do, I hope that you arelike prepared in a way that you can
recognize how to keep yourself safe.
But these narratives we tellourselves and that have been
told to us become the barriers.
The movies that always have somebodybeing killed outside on the beach
(14:00):
or in the back country creates asense of fear that doesn't even
allow folks to be curious about.
And then people don't even recognizeoftentimes because of the hustle
and bustle and the demand to keepup with, our basic needs via labor
and capitalism, you don't evenrealize what's in your back door.
And so it always looks like I need tobuy a plane ticket, get on a train and
(14:24):
go somewhere far away from the urbansetting I live in to experience outdoors.
And again, that's false.
City cities aren't all greatwith creating outdoor spaces.
But in most majorcities, there are trails.
There are opportunitiesfor you to get outside.
And so I think the main barrier isbelieving the hype that the outdoors
isn't for us and that we're not out thereand that it needs to look a certain way.
(14:49):
And then I think that finances dobecome a barrier or not knowing
anybody else who has done it beforeyou so that you can borrow something
or have a conversation with somebodyabout what that experience is like.
And then fear is real, right?
Like we've been told these stories forso long that they become real to us.
And I think we need todemystify it rather than.
(15:10):
constantly having the conversationabout the things that are
external of our ability to change.
The commercials are diversifying, butit doesn't mean that it's going to
make you feel safer to go outside.
So if it's something you really want todo, how do we take that control into,
how do we get power of that so that wecan create narratives that make us really
excited and curious about the outdoors?
Ellen Schwartze (15:32):
Yeah.
So there's someone to ask.
I think is an important part likesomeone who you are comfortable talking
to and who has a shared experienceof so that you can just feel free to
just like fire off these questionsone after one and like assuage that
anxiety that you might feel of gettinginto whatever activity you might do.
I think that's really important.
So you guys are basically like
Zahra Alabanza (15:51):
God.
No, go ahead.
Go ahead.
I'm sorry.
Ellen Schwartze (15:53):
Oh, you're very purposely creating those the The
place for someone to go to ask.
Zahra Alabanza (15:59):
Yeah.
And that's part of accessibility, right?
So I think that the internet makesit and these social media platforms,
being able to see visuals and getstories shared by people who do it,
who are also welcome, welcoming topeople, asking them questions, right?
I think there's a way it can be done whereit doesn't feel accessible or safe to ask
questions, but then there's a way to do itwhere it's come ask me all the questions.
(16:21):
Cause I just finished this adventure.
And I would love to answer all yourquestions so that you can go create
your own adventure or do the onethat I just did or whatever it is.
Yeah.
Ellen Schwartze (16:30):
Yeah, absolutely.
And it also made me think, when yousaid the thing about bears, it made
me think about, because I am more ofa commuter cyclist, and if someone's
not familiar with cycling in a city,they'll just be like, oh my gosh, it's
so dangerous for you to ride in the city.
It's you are more dangerous in your car.
Statistically speaking, butwe're not taking those away.
We're not saying anybody like, don'tbe careful every time you get in your
(16:52):
car, which you should do, but it'snot like someone does not gasp out
loud at your habits of doing this,even though you are actually safer.
So changing that narrative can be.
A big part of I think it's an importantpart of what all of this entails as well.
Zahra Alabanza (17:07):
Absolutely.
And I do gas every time I need toget in the car in the city I'm like,
I always ask people can you drive meor pick me up because I don't want
to deal with what it's like to drive.
Some places in Atlanta being one ofthem I think people do gas when they
have to get in their car, even though.
Or stops them from doing it or choosinga different mode of transportation,
(17:27):
but we guess for sure I had
Ellen Schwartze (17:29):
a friend in town last weekend and I'm a feminist but my husband
drives most of the time for that forwhat you just said because I hate it.
So I had to like the GPS on andI still missed like seven exits
and she must think that I am.
On the driving level, just a totalidiot, because it's I live here, but
I don't know what these roads do.
I stay on small roads most of the time.
(17:50):
Because you're usually hiking.
Yeah.
Exactly, yeah, it's like, if you want meto go on the surface streets, I can do
that, but what is this I 35 happening?
Marley Blonsky (18:01):
I'm curious to learn more about the chapters.
All bodies on bikes has chapters.
And I'm just curious to learn more,what does the chapter structure
what kind of activities do they do?
What does that look like?
Zahra Alabanza (18:11):
So it's funny because that was my first project when I came on.
Because I couldn't create chapterswith Red, Biking Green because of
the lack of finances and just thekind of support that's necessary.
I offered it to RAR and I was like,chapters are the way to go because
it gives a lot of autonomy, right?
And it gives a lot ofspace for creativity.
But we started off, ooh, and thesenumbers, please don't quote me, y'all.
(18:34):
But I think we started off with We did anapplication process, created a structure
where it was like you need to have a coregroup, these are some of the skills you
need for your core group you need to doa certain percentage, I think we said had
to be BIPOC, but we've always refined thatbecause, for instance, there's a chapter
in Utah, we want the percentage of BIPOCpeople to at least match or mirror to
(18:56):
a particular extent the percentage thatexists within the city, but we can't
ask like Utah to have a predominantlyBIPOC chapter because it's Utah.
That is not the makeup of the demographic.
Ellen Schwartze (19:06):
I don't get it.
Is there something aboutUtah that I don't know?
Haha, I kid.
Zahra Alabanza (19:13):
No so we had some like measurements about what.
racially what the makeup should be, whatyour core group should look like, that
it should exist, it should have theseroles and that you, I think, have one
or two adventures, like a backpackingexperiences within a year's span of time.
(19:34):
Whatever those like initial measuremeasurements were, we found it challenging
to monitor that with what we had.
So we brought on co chapterleads, which are Devin and Kai.
Devin runs Atlanta chapter.
Kai runs the New Haven chapter.
And they created a lot of structurethat makes these chapters run more
smoothly because we seen a lot of gapsand things that weren't being met.
(19:56):
So what I, or what we noticed originallywas like, The chapters that were
more BIPOC oriented had a harder timecreating, the bike adventures that were
necessary, and we assume it was becauseof the amount of labor that they have
to do for their own lives that didn'tafford them the privilege and space
and time to be so into their chapterthat they could meet the requirements.
(20:17):
And so it was like, whatcan we do to support that?
Grande would be someone whosupported the Bay Area chapter to
help them troubleshoot, to offermore resources and things like that.
And when we got the chaptermanagers, that's what they also
started to do per for each chapter.
So they have office hours, they have,so mandatory office hours, and then
like more flexible office hours.
(20:37):
And then there's these workshop serieson how to engage different demographics.
So for example, if, I look at it from anorganizing standpoint, which is you need
to have one on ones in your community.
If you're not seeing who you want toshow up in your space, you need to go
find out why and where people are, whichmeans they may not be coming to your
ride, but if you're welcome that theirride, then that's where you need to be
(20:59):
going and build authentic relationships.
And my perspective was.
that our chapters became micro, evenmore microcosmics of the communities we
live in that are very isolated racially,that even gender wise are very isolated.
And you recognize it's really hard forpeople to get out of their own way and
authentically meet people who don't lookAnd act and live the lives that you live,
(21:23):
but in order to diversify, you have to.
And so that's something thatthe chapters had a process.
The chapters have to go through islook at itself, look at its city,
look at the country we live in.
And it answers the questionwhy, your chapter may not look
the way you want it to look.
And then RAR chapter managersoffer resources to push through
that to be a soundboard.
(21:44):
To brainstorm with them to getto where they would like to go.
We got lucky to get aninternational chapter.
Australia is our international chapter.
But it was really an honor to see thateven internationally people, vibed
with what RAR was offering and applied.
When we first started, there werechapters that were funded and
chapters that were unfunded, andthat was based on what chapters said.
(22:07):
Chapter was like, no, wedon't need the funding.
We were like, great, we can offer it toa chapter that does need the funding.
And we created more infrastructurearound that to like, support
people spending the money.
I think sometimes people don't wantto spend money because it's then
I don't have any money, but thenit's you're not utilizing the money
for what it could be used for.
So just encouraging onhow it could be spent.
(22:28):
And I think that's a really coolperk because it could go to flyers.
It could go for food at your meetings.
It can go to a number of differentthings that support the the chapter,
even if it's not getting gear or,Paying fees towards an adventure.
It still is supporting it like back ofthe house front of the house kind of idea.
And that feels really good.
(22:49):
To core members who don't have to comeout of their own pocket to figure out
how to pay for these things that theydon't even realize will become like a
fee because It's only in the detailsyou recognize should cost money,
Marley Blonsky (23:01):
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
Oh
Zahra Alabanza (23:02):
yeah.
I love that.
We can offer some fundingto the chapters as well.
Marley Blonsky (23:05):
How do you guys get that funding?
Are you fundraising?
Is it grants?
What is that?
It's all
Zahra Alabanza (23:09):
of the above.
So we do some fundraising.
We do have some sponsorsand then we sell merch.
So there's that, thatgenerates revenue as well.
I was hoping you would mentionthat because the merch is so cute.
Molly is gangsta.
She creates these items and wekeep Lisa Frank in our back pocket.
So if you ever look at some of the moresome of like our handkerchiefs and stuff
(23:33):
like that, it has a little Lisa Frankvibe, cheers to the eighties babies.
And she just does a really great jobdesigning this merch and people love it.
Ellen Schwartze (23:40):
Yeah.
I want to just revisit one ofthe things you said in there.
It was like how to get the chapters toreflect who is in your community and
how to purposely reach out to them.
Are there resources that otherpeople could reference without
being part of RAR for that?
Because I think that as we thinkof the political climate, I do
think that's something that is.
important moving forward for us topurposefully be running into people
(24:02):
who we don't share exact views with.
Zahra Alabanza (24:05):
Yeah so RAR has a resource page.
I couldn't tell you what's on it rightnow, but that is a great place to start.
Ellen Schwartze (24:12):
I
Zahra Alabanza (24:14):
always say,
There's a ton of resources.
People have to be interested enoughto go seek them out, and I don't think
that there's a cookie cutter fit forany one community that would work.
It really does take people's effortto say, this is something that's
important for me to understand andwork through, towards, and beyond,
(24:34):
to go find the resources that fitthe groups that they're working with.
I think that a lot of labor has goneinto creating resources to understand
non cis people, non heterosexual people.
To understand BIPOC folks.
And it's just go find that.
And to expect that someone is justgoing to hand it to you in a way that
like makes complete sense to you, yourchapter, your community is not fair, but
(24:57):
the resources are out there and you canpiecemeal them together and gain a lot
of knowledge that will truly enhance howyou approach the work that you're doing.
And that's any.
Any work that wants to addressmarginalized communities and
communities that aren't wellrepresented in mass culture.
Marley Blonsky (25:12):
Yeah, we'll put a link to that page on our within the show notes.
But one of my favorite things is theguiding principles that I think came
up from the WTF bike Explorers retreat.
But as transitioned into this biggerthing and it's like just it's these 10
principles that, I think people shouldlive their lives by and I won't go into
all of them, but, just even the firstone of trusting intent, but acknowledging
(25:35):
impact absorbing this into my life hasbeen huge of, I screw up sometimes and
acknowledging that has an impact on otherpeople has been absolutely huge so we
will put a link to it But I recommendpeople check out the guiding principles
because they really do help you Especiallyif you're in a white heterosexual
body cisgender body I don't know whyI put heterosexual in there Anyway,
(25:56):
if you're of the It's fine if you're
Ellen Schwartze (25:59):
calling me out, I don't mind.
Marley Blonsky (26:00):
You're not lucky enough to be queer, sorry.
Ellen Schwartze (26:06):
But it is it is a bit of even this is a little example here.
It was like, I'm sittinghere okay, so where do I go?
And you're like, you go wherever , yoursearch takes you, but you do it.
Zahra Alabanza (26:16):
Yeah, that's important.
And I appreciate y'all bringingup the guiding principles.
Cause I think they are likea baseline at the very least.
And a lot of entitieshave them these days.
So it's and they paralleleach other so much.
And then I think RAR has a rideguide that also is if you don't know
how to do this is also some supporton figuring out how you can create
(26:36):
rides that are very inclusive andsafe for everybody who's on there,
Marley Blonsky (26:41):
I'm so glad you called that out.
Cause the ride guide we, it's aPDF that you can purchase which.
Pay the money, buy the PDF, andit is an incredible resource for
anybody who leads group rides.
It's really for all bodies on bikes,it's what we've built a lot of our
work off of, because it is absolutelyincredible and really highlights a lot
of things that I wouldn't necessarilyhave thought about as a ride leader.
(27:02):
So thank you for that.
That's awesome to hear that it's useful.
It's very useful.
Thank you.
And it's designed supercute and it's awesome.
Zahra Alabanza (27:09):
Yeah.
It takes you, it's likean activity book, right?
You remember saying mash and allthat stuff on the inside too.
Super fun.
Marley Blonsky (27:17):
Yeah.
So we'll put up a link to that as well.
Let me go back to my list of questions.
Ellen, you got anything?
I do.
I think I'm
Ellen Schwartze (27:24):
curious.
You talked a lot about what R.
A.
R.
has become to this point.
What's happening next?
What's in the future?
What's on the horizon?
Zahra Alabanza (27:32):
I think you got to wait and find out.
There are things brewing, but I'mnot at liberty to say because those
conversations are still happening.
I think you can expect somechanges that benefit, people in RAR
leadership that can be invisibilizedand give more breathing room.
And so those conversations arestill happening and very important.
(27:53):
I think that focusing on what existsnow is also really important so that we
don't lose what RAR like currently is.
And I think RAR also does areally good job of archiving.
I was looking back at the websiteand it went through the process
that we did for the name change.
And so when those changes do occur,it'll be really shared very well of
(28:15):
the who, what, where, why, and when,and how we got to where we're going.
And it is part of Making sure we controlthat narrative rather than what can
easily happen when things change andpeople don't like them or they love
them so much they take on a narrative oftheir own, but right has done a really
good job of controlling its narrative.
And so I'm also really excitedto see how we choose to tell
(28:37):
the story of what is next.
Ellen Schwartze (28:39):
Oh, I love this teasing.
What's your timeline?
When should people belooking out for said news?
Do you know that yet?
Zahra Alabanza (28:45):
I don't know for sure, but 2025, so broad, keep everybody exposed.
Ellen Schwartze (28:51):
That is anywhere from 1 to 13 months from now.
Enjoy.
Marley Blonsky (28:56):
I love the transparency of it though, because I think it really
does, it's leadership and it's showingother orgs that like, it's okay to have
these hard conversations and to adaptand evolve as your community changes.
So kudos on that, because it's hard.
Zahra Alabanza (29:09):
And I would also say as leadership changes, right?
Going from a founding group to onlyhaving one founder and a bunch of other
people that believe in the work of RARcoming together and having to learn
each other and all these great things.
We're a great group of Iwould say friends actually.
And I don't think people consider.
often enough, and you all probablyhave experiences as well, how hard
(29:32):
it is to create space and thingsthat other people will utilize.
People will love to get in thecomments and have shit to say.
And it's wait a minute, we've been to,and this space was created for all of
us to enjoy and it didn't exist before.
And there's often not a blueprint.
So don't come trying to attack usor have such critique that it makes
the people, the very people who aremaking the offering not feel good.
(29:54):
And reminding people through all of theseprocesses that like, We're people too.
And be easy.
And our pace is not necessarily asone of corporate America, which I
think people are accustomed to whenyou put in a complaint, you get an
automatic response and a resolution.
And it's no, we're real people tryingto be transparent and hold integrity
(30:15):
while we deal with anything, and soit's we move at the pace of being human.
And that's a very real thing, which iswhy one to 13 months is Who knows what
will happen in our decision making.
Marley Blonsky (30:26):
Yeah.
And that's perfectly okay.
Cause you all have lives outsideof RAR and your parents and your
community members and all these things.
I love that gentle reminderto Hey, be patient folks.
Like we're creating community foryou and we're building this for you.
Ellen Schwartze (30:39):
But it's also a bit of a, moment to say it doesn't have
to be the pace of corporate America.
It's fine to take its time.
I think all bodies on bikes has donea good job too of saying we're going
to purposely grow sustainably in away that because at the moment it's
really just, it's Marley and the boardand it's a few other people who are
like, we're surrounded by good people,but you can't put it all on Marley's
shoulders and expect it To just fly.
(31:01):
You can, Marley's amazing, but if we'renot trying to burn Marley out immediately,
you have to do this differently.
So like pushing back againstthe hustle, I think the hustle.
Yeah.
And this expectation, even like theway that you said it with taking
your complaint to corporate America.
Yeah, you're not, you might not getyour ticket logged to the way you think.
(31:21):
And it might just be thatthe answer is no, like.
We're expecting whoever wecomplain to, to fix our problem.
And if you're not going to show up andbe part of the solution and something
like RAR and something that is so newand growing, then you might like, noted.
And we'll let you know.
Zahra Alabanza (31:39):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I I commend all founders and Icommend the one person teams with boards
and the people who live a lot of lives,but yet still find the space to offer
something to the larger community.
Cause the blood, sweat and tearsand the sacrifice, and you don't
even recognize the sacrifice causeyou're like, I love this thing.
And then you look up and you're like,holy shit, like how do you continue?
(32:01):
And then you have to realizeyou, we get to create.
What an entity can look like that alignswith how the people we love and care
about move and exist in the world.
And it is at a completely different pace.
It's like at the pace of riding a bicycle.
On and on.
Ayo.
Marley Blonsky (32:18):
Yes, I love that.
I love that.
I'm hoping folks are going tohear this and be like, Oh my God,
I want to learn more about RAR.
I want to get involved.
Obviously, people can go to the websiteand look it up on Instagram but if
people are interested in coming on aride, coming on a campout and they fit
into the FTWNB BIPOC umbrella do youhave any advice that you would give them
for folks who are curious or, like, howshould they show up to these spaces?
Zahra Alabanza (32:41):
Just go.
I think sometimes we put so muchthought behind things and I get it.
We live in a world that's created so muchanxiety that you're like, do I fit in?
Do I this?
Can I this?
And it's excuse my language,but fuck around and find out.
And you'll probably find out that itwasn't as bad or hard as you made it seem
when you were pondering it in your mind.
You showed up, peoplewere really welcoming.
(33:01):
And maybe they weren'tbecause I don't know.
I've heard of recent experiences wheresome, something wasn't as welcoming,
but we can troubleshoot that.
I think that's the most beautiful thing isthe people who come to something like RAR
are open to critique and will shift when,and if it makes sense for them to shift,
to meet the needs of the people that theywant on the rides or that deserve to be
(33:22):
on the rides, need to be taking up spaceon the rides and it's trial and error.
I don't think, so yeah, I'm like,if you're interested, come on out.
Bring what bike you have, all bodieswelcome, come, I when I was at Griffith
I wear tutus on adventures, right?
And it makes me feel howbiking makes me feel.
I think there are very few spaceswhere your whole self can show up.
(33:45):
I think RAR is one of thefew spaces where literally.
Who and how you are, as long as it's notcausing harm to anybody, is going to be
welcomed and gives us all an opportunityto get out of our boxes and who, and
associate and work and play with people,not these like, Forms of people we have
(34:06):
to become because society puts a lot ofpressure on us like riding bikes It's
one of the most liberating things andit is welcoming for you to be exactly
who and how you are without harm So comeon show up and let's see what happens.
Ellen Schwartze (34:19):
I Cannot picture a more perfect way to wrap up this conversation
and then with what you just said that waswonderful And if that's the spirit of all
bodies on bikes, it's the spirit of raw.
I think that's the spirit of alot of people who are starting to
form these wildly inclusive andpurposefully inclusive spaces.
We've talked with some great people,Marley, just on this podcast alone.
(34:41):
And it's I am so honored, I think, tojust be part of creating these things.
And I am really glad to havetalked to you as a wrath.
So
Zahra Alabanza (34:48):
yeah.
Yeah it's a pleasure.
And I think it's important whatyou all offer the space y'all offer
for people to share about theirexperiences with, bicycles, y'all,
we get to talk about fun, right?
I, but I also thinkthey're really beautiful.
These entities are really beautiful placeto deal with the hard shit in the world
(35:08):
when you have like your favorite toy withyou all the time, or your toy is a tool.
And yeah, I just, It's if youhaven't rode a bike, then you
don't know how powerful they are.
And I welcome anybody andcelebrate anybody who you somehow
uses bikes as a tool for change.
So thank you for thepodcast and having RAR on.
Ellen Schwartze (35:28):
Thank you for joining us.
We hope that every listener has thecourage to fuck around and find out
at some point in 2025 with you guys.
Zahra Alabanza (35:36):
Sounds great.
Ellen Schwartze (35:38):
Awesome.
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