Steve Kerr | Ep 49 | ALL THE SMOKE Full Episode | SHOWTIME Basketball - All The Smoke

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to All the Smoke, a production of The Black
Effect and our Heart Radio and partnership with Showtime. Welcome
back Man, season two of All the Smoke. We got
a real special guys, what's up with your brody with
the virtual handshake? I'm gonna tell ya something that I
never told go back, I want to smoke. Welcome Back
All the Smoke Season two with a very special guest today. Uh,

(00:23):
Steven Jackson had to attend to a family emergency, so
he won't be with us today. But I have my
former coach mentor someone I look up to in this space,
Steve Kerr. Welcome to the show, Matt. Thanks for having
me on. Appreciate it. Thanks for your time. You just
told me I didn't know. But you guys are out
there in the Bay Area and your bubble right now practicing.
How's that going. It's going well. You know, we were

(00:43):
obviously one of the eight teams that that didn't qualify
for Orlando, and so some of that was a positive.
I mean, let's be honest to the type of season
we had. We didn't really want to go down to Orlando,
sit in a hotel room for a month and and
play meaningless games. On the other hand, as we watched
all those teams playing and we were not able to

(01:05):
get together ourselves and practice, we realized how quickly we
were falling behind. So, you know, all eight teams now
have been given this space by the league, and so
everybody's doing an in market bubble. So we're in San Francisco.
We're just going back and forth from the hotel to
our facility and and we're getting getting good work in

(01:25):
and um it's been really productive. So UM, you know,
trying to make the best of the situation. How long
do you guys actually are in this this uh, this bubble.
It's it's two weeks, um, and it's um, it's totally voluntary. Um.
You know, this was not something that was required. UM.

(01:46):
So we have most of our guys here, Steph and
Draymond or not. They both had family stuff that they
needed to tend to. But we've got the rest of
the group. Clay is here, Andrew Wiggins, all of our
young play years from last year, and then we've got
some players from our G League team as well. And
the biggest thing, honestly, Matt, is just the guys getting
to play five on five for the first time in

(02:09):
like six months. I mean, it's been a long time.
So just to feel the contact and the joy of
playing basketball again has been really good for for everybody.
How's Clay looked. I mean, obviously the world has been
waiting on his comeback. I love that he got to
actually take the adequate amount of time because I feel
like too often as players were rushed back or you know,
the game is calling us, so the team needs us back.

(02:30):
Clay got to take the right amount of time to
recover and we'll have well, we'll see a healthy Clay
Thompson next year. How's he been with this kind of
being his first run, first contact in a long time. Yeah,
Clay's looked great. And I've seen him a couple of
times during the quarantine in Orange County, and uh so
I've watched him work out over the last few months
a couple of times and and kept up to up

(02:52):
to speed with him. So I was already aware that
he was doing well and feeling really good. But this
is just a kind of an ex natural step, you know,
to be on the floor with nine other guys, and
so it's been really good for him. He looks great. Um,
because rhythm and his timing aren't there, but that that's
there's no way that that it would be given that

(03:13):
he's been off for a year and a half. But
he's healthy, he's feeling good, and it's been great to
have him in the building and and obviously just thinking
about next season with him, with stuff with Draymond, with
Andrew Wiggins. You know, we we can start to think
about having a good team again. Yeah, that's gonna be good.
We'll get back to basketball a little bit. We're gonna,
you know, start with some other stuff. Obviously, we're in

(03:34):
a crazy time right now in our country. You've been
someone I've admired from a standpoint if you haven't let
your position of who you are hold back your true feelings.
You've always been very outspoken and passionate when you speak.
Obviously in the midst of a pandemic, in the midst
of I don't even know what we want to call
it a change, hopefully for the better for our country.
Like I said, you've always been someone outspoken. Obviously, I

(03:57):
think your past, and we'll get into your past, but
I think your asked to help you be very confident
who you are and what you speak about. Where did
that come from as far as Hey, you know, I'm
gonna speak my mind regardless if I'm the head coach
of the Golden State Warriors or I'm just a man
on the street. Well, it's a good question. Um. I
think I've always felt a responsibility just to conviction inside too,

(04:22):
to try to do the right thing and say the
right thing. But I never really said much politically when
I was playing. But then again, nobody really asked either.
You know, it was a different time, totally different era. Um.
I do remember speaking out against the Iraq War when

(04:44):
I played for the Spurs living in San Antonio, and
I was not a popular position to take, and it
was kind of my first sort of foray into public protest.
And uh, you know, San Antonio has five military bases. Um,
you know, of military influence in that town is is
really really uh important. And so did to you know,

(05:08):
make my feelings known about the war was not an
easy thing because I wanted people to know that my
my words had nothing to do with the military. They
just had everything to do with humanity and and um,
you know where things were heading. And so that was
kind of my first time where I felt uncomfortable. Um,

(05:31):
But but knowing that I was speaking out in the
right way, and so that gave me a little feel
for what what was to come. And I think now
we're obviously in a totally different era where, um, the
times are really calling for people to speak out, and
and we all have this enormous platform given the state
of media, social media. As coaches, you know, on a

(05:55):
on a typical road game, I do three media sessions
a day. Um, it's insane, you know. So I'm getting
questions every day on politics and you know, social issues. So, um,
it's now it seems almost part of the job. Really,
it's anonymous, right, they go hand in hand now and
and for so long it was stick to stick to

(06:15):
sports and politics and sports still mix. But I completely
agree with you. I think they go hand in hand
now and I I want also who speak out, But
I think, like you said, it's people with platforms and
who have a voice to travel. And obviously, you know,
through our careers we've been able to, you know, build
this platform that has allowed us to when we speak,
people listen. So we're obviously in tune with other things

(06:36):
outside of our profession, such as politics, such as families,
such as there's there's so many more facets to who
we are as human beings, were not just athletes. So
I applaud you at the position you take, in the
stance you take, and and really the vulnerability you put
yourself in speaking out on issues. Like you said, they
don't always politically correct, I guess, but they're socially and
morally correct. Yeah. I think that's the key. I mean, um,

(07:01):
you've got to feel in your heart, and you've gotta
you've gotta have a conviction and and then ultimately the
most important thing is to have uh, real knowledge to
to go with it, you know, the education of what
you're speaking of. And and I think that's what I've
really tried to do over the last say four months,

(07:23):
when with this social movement, this UH movement for racial
justice really heating up, and given the time off that
we've had, I've just been trying to educate myself and
and read as much as I can about racism. I've
read some incredible books, um that have taught me so

(07:43):
much and helped me realize that reality is. Even though
I've always kind of felt like I was educated and
open minded, I was pretty ignorant to a lot of
what black Americans face. You know, I really was he.
I've been playing with with black teammates and friends since
I was you know, in junior high, growing up in

(08:05):
Los Angeles and integrated schools, and yet I felt over
the last few months, you know, kind of humiliated, like,
oh my god, how do how do I not know
about Black Wall Street? You know, how do I not
know about some of these awful, awful times in our

(08:26):
history where the black community has just been devastated by
by violence, by um all kinds of horrific acts that
nobody taught us in school, you know. And so I
think that's what's been most eye opening for me is

(08:47):
just the realization that, um, we are all um why
when I say we, I mean white people, We're all
blind to a lot of this stuff. And it's it's
on us to learn and to under understand and to
put ourselves in someone else's shoes and and understand what's
what's happening and why and what can we do to

(09:09):
change you I think you hit it on the head too,
because it's not taught. So I mean you have to
really go out there and search and look and try
to educate yourself in the ability to open your mind
up enough to not only be present within yourself and
what you have going on, but the ability to put
yourself in someone else's shoes, because as a white man,

(09:30):
you can learn as much as you want, but you'll
never understand the feeling that a black person will go to.
But all we want you guys to do is try
to understand, you know what I mean. And I think
there's a I think there's been a turn. There's been
a shift in the paradigm where people are actually willing
to do that now because of the George Floyd situation. Unfortunately, normally,
when African Americans are gunned down by law enforcement, it's

(09:52):
a shot and they're dead. And I think for eight
and a half, almost nine minutes, almost the time of
an NBA quarter, we watched a man suffer and call
for his mother and plead for his life. And I
think that really pulled on the heartstrings of America and
it really started opening up people's eyes and making people
realize that, you know, hey, there's a real issue in

(10:13):
this country and now is the time to address it. Um.
I feel we're still going through it, but I definitely
feel like we're going to turn the corner and good
things are coming, but it takes things like what you're
doing to educate yourself and then not only educate yourself,
but then spread what you're learning. You know what I mean?
I can said you do a great job of utilizing
your platform to speak what you've learned. Um. Fast forward

(10:36):
to the NBA bubble. How do you feel like the
NBA did be able to create an environment, a safe
environment not only for the players, but then also for
the players to continue to carry their their messages through
social justice and the initiatives that the NBA has put
upon their shoulders to try to help, you know, be
a small part of change. Yeah. I thought the league
has did a really good job of first of all,

(10:57):
creating a safe environment and the bubble, by really every
measure has been a resounding success. And the first thing
I do is is give credit to the players and
coaches and administrators who are down there and who have
been there for over three months now. If you know,
if you look at the Lakers and the Heat, I

(11:18):
mean the sacrifice that all those players those organizations are
making for the rest of us to keep the league going.
I want to make sure I I reference that because
it's it's been hugely important for the league to be
able to put games on TV and to entertain our
fans and keep things going. UM from a racial justice standpoint,
the great thing with the NBA is that I think

(11:40):
the players have always felt the support. Maybe not always,
but in the last you know period of time, UM, decade,
couple of decades, the players and coaches have felt the
support of UM, the league management in large part. You know,
we've been really led in a powerful way by Adam Silver. UM.

(12:03):
You know, his very first act as commissioner was was
kicking we're all startling out. Yeah we were. We were
in the playoffs when that happened, which is insane, but
that it was a huge first step a lot, you know,
for that to be your first issue, and he handled
it swiftly and gracefully. It was beautiful then it and
it felt empowering. UM. And I you know, I I

(12:24):
can't I can only speak as a as a white man,
but I was proud that to be part of a
league that said, okay, like we're going to really address
this stuff, and we're gonna support our players and our coaches. UM.
So I think going into the bubble, you know there's
that uh foundation that's already there where there's a trust
level between the players and management. Um, not that everything's perfect,

(12:50):
but I think there's a trust level. Fast forward to
the Jacob Blake shooting and the players kind of throw
their hand ends up and say, we can't do this anymore.
UM my take on that. As I sat at home,
obviously I'm not in the bubble um, I just sensed
an incredible frustration of a group of players who had

(13:14):
dedicated this entire season to the Black Lives Matter movement,
to social and racial equity justice, using their their platforms
to spread the message throughout this time, and then the
same old thing, just black man getting shot by by
cops seven times in front of his family, and combined

(13:38):
with the fact that these guys had already been in
Orlando for a couple of months away from their families,
It's like, to me, it just looked like everybody through
their hands up and said, we can't, we can't do this,
Like we can't just perform for your entertainment and not
see real change. And and so last thing, and I'm
rambling a little bit, but I think this is important.
I think the reason that was an important time time

(14:00):
out was that the players missed a couple of games.
They sat out and they said, we're not playing and
they use that as leveraged to get some concessions from
the owners terms of opening up arenas for for voting
centers and U, I think there were some financial considerations
in terms of donating money to to social causes. To me,

(14:22):
the reason this is so important is that what can
really change things is corporate America deciding to jump on
board this train and putting their money where their mouth
is and changing policy. Changing um, the way we police,
the way we go about our business, the way we
protect each other. Um. It has to come from rich

(14:45):
white people to be perfectly, blunt, absolutely rock the vote.
In your opinion, how important is it for you into
everyone else to not only vote on the federal level,
but the local and state level as well. Yeah, it's
huge and and um, you know, I've I've read all
the stats. I mean, young people generally don't vote. You know,

(15:07):
it's uh, the numbers are are are staggering, and I
think it's like one in five, you know, between the
ages of eighteen and thirty, UM, in the last election,
if that actually voted, Um, and yet the future of
our country is at stake. And and so because of
this movement, because there's so many young people really of

(15:30):
of of every race, UM and background or so invested
in this movement. Uh, they got to back it up,
you know, they have to back and back it up
and show up at the polls, um and help create
the change that that that they're calling for. And it
can only happen if they if they get out and vote. Absolutely. Um.

(15:52):
You had a very unique upbringing, Um, with your father
moving around, you know, had spent some time at Beirute, Egypt, France, Tanzania.
What was it like as a young child growing up
in so many different cultures? It was a real blessing,
although I didn't realize that at the time, Matt. You know,
my dad was a professor at u c. L A.

(16:13):
And I just wanted to live in l A and
and go to U c l A basketball games and
you know, play play sports with my friends. And then
my dad would would come home and he'd say, all right,
we're gonna, you know, pack up the v W van
and and uh put it on a boat to Egypt,
and you know, we're gonna go live in Egypt. For

(16:34):
the next two years when you're ten years old, like
what we're doing? What? So not exactly something that that
thrilled me at the time, but I look back on
it, it it was the best education I ever could have
had to live in in Cairo for three years. Um.

(16:54):
Also in uh in France it was actually too easy
and not Tanzania, but uh, excuse me, that's that's all right.
The point, the point at the point is the same.
It's living in a different culture, totally different part of
the world. It just gives you an entirely different perspective
on life and and it gives you an empathy for
other people and um and an awareness that you know, uh,

(17:17):
we all come from different places, but we're basically all
looking for the same thing. We get all these political
and racial differences get in our way and suddenly you've
got horrible inequities and atrocity is happening, and it's insane
because we're all just We're all just flesh and blood.
And I think getting that perspective as a kid was

(17:39):
was really important for me through that process. Where did
basketball fit in? Is that where you found when did
you find your passion for the game? And who were
some of the people you looked up to in the game. Well,
my uh, I was a bruin at heart. I know
you like that, you know. But my first game was
at Pauli Pavilion. I was five years old and Bill

(18:00):
Walton was playing for U c l A. And and
uh and so I I was. I was raised during
that heyday when U c l A was winning year
after year and John Wooden was was the coach and
and so too. That's where I fell in love with
the game, you know, walking into Pauli Pavilion for the
first time and hearing the band play and watching the

(18:21):
team and every seat was filled, and the crowd noise
and the energy. It was just invigorating and and uh,
that's that's where I fell in love with it. And
then I played all sports, you know, like we we
did back then. I know you you played baseball and
football and I did the same and and so I
just played played sports all the time. But basketball was

(18:41):
my favorite. And when I was overseas, I was able
to play. That was one one of the good things
about basketball was that you know, people played basketball in
each of they didn't play baseball or football, so that
that helped I I just was had an outdoor hoop
at our school and played on the school team, and
you know it was it was fun. Ye finished sing
up your high school career in California, not very highly recruited.

(19:03):
You end up at Arizona as part of Lute Olsen's
first recruiting class. What was that like playing for such
a lary Dairy coach? Obviously we lost him not too
long ago. Rest in peace to coach. What was that
experience like being a part of his class, going to
you know, wanting to go to u C. L A,
ending up at Arizona, and then having a successful career
at Arizona. Yeah, it was sort of unexpected. Um. You know,

(19:26):
I finished my senior season without a scholarship offer, and
I didn't really know what I was gonna do. So
everything kind of happened at last second, and um it
turned into the break of my lifetime because to go
to Arizona and learned from from coach Olsen. Um and
then too you know, he built the program so quickly. Um,

(19:47):
so within a few years I was playing with NBA
players like Sean Elliott and and Judd Bushler and and
Sean Rooks, And I mean we we we were we
were loaded. Tom Tolbert, Kenny Lofton was on our team
and went on and had a amazing big league career.
And so Lute built this incredible program quickly, and and

(20:07):
so to be part of it and to learn from
him and to have the foundation upon which the rest
of my life has been built was just the ultimate gift.
So I will forever be thankful for Coach Olsen and
what what he meant to my life. Do you apply anything,
probably most likely that you learned from him to your

(20:28):
coaching style you have now? I do? I do? I think, Um,
I've probably taken a little something from all the coaches
that I've played for, but from from him, it was,
you know, there was such an environment of you know,
this is something special, like you're part of something special,
and you felt that the first day you walked in,

(20:51):
and he made it feel that way through the work,
through the mission that we were on, through the family
Vie that that was there, um, And so I think
I've taken that. I I always want players who come
to the Warriors to feel like they're part of something special,
and that's how coach, That's how Coach approached it. Absolutely

(21:14):
your father accepts a role as president of American University
and eighty two. Unfortunately January of nine four. Uh, still
while you're at Arizona. Uh, your father was killed. How
did that tragedy impact you being thousands of miles away
and then also obviously impact your family. Yeah, so he Uh,
he was one of the early victims of terrorism during

(21:39):
you know, this age of terrorism that we're in. It
really began, um kind of in the late seventies, um,
with the hostage situation in Iran at the American embassy,
and then you know, the early eighties there were various um,
you know, hijackings and kidnapped things, and bombings and in

(22:02):
the Middle East and and and so my dad was
was killed by gunmen and two gunmen outside of his office.
I was eighteen at the time, um, freshman year at Arizona,
and uh, you know, just crushed me, just destroyed me.
And I was really close with my dad. I have
three siblings. We were all really really close. And and

(22:26):
you know, it's hard to hard to know how to
function when something like that happens, because you you know,
I suppose a lot of us just live in a
little cocoon growing up if you know, assuming things go
well for us as as a child like they did
for me. You know, I was pretty innocent and you know,
I didn't think anything like that would happen to me,

(22:47):
and so when it did, it was devastating. But you know,
I'm I'm proud of my family, everybody, you know, really
stuck together, My siblings, my mom, everybody as as moved
on and with their lives and done really well. And
we think about our dad every day, and um, but

(23:08):
you know, you keep keep moving, keep moving forward. I
lost my mom, um two thousand seven to cancer. Um.
What role did basketball play for you and in helping
you not necessarily get over but try to you know,
start life after your father? Yeah, I think it was.

(23:29):
That was my sanctuary for sure, you know, just going
to the gym and um. You know, I remember about
about a few days after um my dad died, we
had a game and actually the next day I went
to practice, you know, and coach Olsen said, are you
sure you want to practice? And I said, what else

(23:51):
would I want to be doing? You know, um? And
it wasn't like some heroic act, it was just what
else do you do? Um? You know, you're just at
home and you're sitting there, you're thinking about everything. It's
it's a miserable time. And and sort of get on
the court for a couple of hours and lose yourself
in the game and be with your friends and and

(24:15):
you know, feel the endorphin kick of of you know,
intense energy and exercise. It all helps. It's very therapeutic,
and it it you know, people might think it sounds insensitive,
but it's really not. It's it's just part of part
of that process of immediate grief. You know that the

(24:36):
game was like the the one thing during the day
that I could look forward to. Yeah, that was that
was to say, I played two days after my mom passed,
and so, like you said, lose yourself for that two
and a half hours to just something you love. Although
every time there was a foul call or a whistle
was blown, you you know, you obviously revert back to
missing your father, to missing my mom. But basketball was

(24:57):
a huge part and obviously my supports this and which
was my team with the Golden State Warriors at the time.
With that, we believe team was tremendous and in kind
of you know, being a shoulder to lean on and
allowing me to be okay, to agree and be those
people you needed them to be. It was. It was
a special experience. But like I said, I really think
basketball helped me transition through that point in my life. Well,

(25:19):
your teammates become a family for sure, especially you know,
a team like that. I mean, you know, I remember
I was in broadcasting at the time, and I did
I did some of your games, and I remember you
going through that loss, and I remember, um, you know,
just um, and of course we knew each other already
because you had been in Phoenix, uh before that when

(25:43):
I was in management with the Sons and and so
I was, you know it just feeling for you and
watching you and and just um knowing exactly what you
were going through because I went through the same thing.
But that game and your teammates, that's what you have
to rely on. Absolutely. Um. How special was that final

(26:05):
four team? You guys had? You know him and saying
the guy Sean Elliott, Kenny Lofton, Tom Tolbert, Anthony Cook,
a young Jed Bushler. What was it? What was that experience?
Like I think Kansas with Danny Manning won the championship
that year. If I'm not mistaken. Yeah, we lost to
Oklahoma in the final four. It's the one game, Matt,
honestly that I still think about to this day. I

(26:26):
don't think about I don't think about any of the
good ones. I really don't. I only I only think
about that one because I played so poorly and I
shot two for thirteen, not that I you know, have
kept tracked, and uh, it was so painful, um because
we had a we had an incredible team sodid Oklahoma
and they were fantastic and they beat us and then

(26:49):
Kansas says, you said they upset him in the finals.
But I think about that game still. This season was
so special. Those guys remain my best friends to this day,
the guys from that team, and you know, we still
have that that bond that's going to exist forever. So
I've been lucky just to not only be on great teams,
but beyond teams that just were really close, you know,

(27:09):
and and where I made really good friends and so
much fun to stay in touch with old teammates, you know,
just touch base. W It's great. Absolutely. When this is
a two part question, when did the NBA become reality?
And then once you made it, when did you feel
like you found your footing in the NBA and you
felt like you belonged. Man, That's a that's a great question. Um,

(27:32):
it really didn't become a reality to me. I guess
I've realized my senior year in college that maybe I
had a chance, um, and I got drafted. It was
the last pick in the second round by the Suns,
And when I made the team, it didn't feel like
I was really there yet. I just was on the
end of the roster. So the next few years, I
got traded to Cleveland, played for Lenny Wilkins, who was

(27:55):
a good, fantastic coach. We have really good teams with
Mark Price and Brad Doherty, Marry Nance, Craigy Lowe, Ron
Harper Um and I found my footing, uh for for
a couple of seasons. During that time, I had had
a couple of good years, but but I was really
still a fringe guy for most of my career, And

(28:18):
to be honest, I'm not sure I ever felt a
comfortable that I belonged, you know I And maybe that's
what drove me. I always just kind of felt like,
you know, I could get cut at any time, and
so as a result, I put in the work and
I competed, and uh, and I just kept sticking around
and um and yeah, I ended up playing fifteen years,

(28:39):
which is sort of shocking. Um, I still can't believe
that that my career lasted that long. But now I was.
I was fortunate and and I kind of ended up
on in the right place at the right time in
a lot of cases. Absolutely, Uh with Chicago, you end
up in Chicago, And uh, you guys go on a

(29:01):
three pet run from nineties six, obviously, with the last
dance being such a huge success and winning a lot
of awards. What do you remember from that time? Obviously,
I'm sure that refreshed you a lot, whether things that
you saw there, like that ship didn't happen that way,
or things you completely forgot. What was the experience like
kind of going because you guys missed the social media generation,

(29:24):
you know, so this that was almost like us being
able to see social media version of you and Michael
Jordan's Scottie Pipot and Phil and Dennis and all this
stuff you guys went through. What was it like just
sitting back, like watching stuff that happened over twenty years ago?
It was really fun because you know, at the time,
they didn't have all the sort of Heart Knocks style shows,

(29:46):
you know, um with teams like nobody was allowed behind
the scenes. Yeah, no, behind the scenes at all. Nothing,
nothing like even NBA Entertainment. You know, they might be
allowed in the locker room during the championship celebration, but
you'd never see a camera and a team meeting. Um.
You know, you'd never you know how now like you know,

(30:07):
let's let's listen in on Frank Vogel during his halftime
speech during the platform that's never never never. Um. So
when Phil told us that the cameras were going to
be behind the scenes, and you know why he was
allowing it, it was kind of shocking. And then seeing
all those guys every day was really weird. The first

(30:28):
month it was, you just felt so exposed. And I'm
still not sure it was a great idea. UM. I
don't think I would allow it as a coach. I
think I think it's you're opening yourself up to a
lot of potential problems. Um. But I'm really glad that
that it happened because now, you know, to watch it

(30:50):
twenty two years or later, especially with my kids who
were babies at the time, you know, Um, and now
they're all grown up. So to to watch with them
and for them to see kind of what life was
like for me back then, was was really fun. What
was it like? I mean, I'm sure this is a
common question playing with Mike. Um. You know we heard
you guys had your differences at times, but just overall,

(31:13):
him as a teammate, him as a competitor, and is
there a friendship there's Is there a friendship there? There's Uh,
there's there's a mutual respect that that exists, and and uh,
we don't really stay in touch, um, but we see
each other maybe once or twice a year, whether it's

(31:35):
at at a game in Charlotte or All Star weekend
or you know, maybe a golf tournament or something in
Lake Tahoe. Like we've we've we just seemed to run
into each other once in a while because we're kind of,
you know, traveling the same circuit. And there's always it's
always a great reunion, you know, He's Um, it's so

(31:56):
much fun to kind of relive those days and to
ask about, you know, our teammates and talk about you know,
the good times back then and being his teammate was hard. Um.
You know, he he was really tough on everybody because
his whole philosophy was he had to toughen us up

(32:17):
to get us ready for the playoffs in the finals,
and so he came after us and you had to
you had to stand up to him. He had to
sort of survive the the MJ test, you know, and
and the guys who who survived it. Um, he had
immense respect for him. And so you know, people know
about the fight I got into him and I that

(32:39):
we got into two together, and um, that was just
about him kind of testing me and uh, and I
probably the best thing I ever did was not you know,
not take his his crap, and you know, stood back
up and he respected it and we got along ever since.
So that was a similar you know, obviously we weren't
teammates at the time, but like I said, I think

(33:01):
getting a chance to play against Kobe for so long
and he'll test you mentally physically obviously as an opponent. Um.
But then you know, it came to a head in
the in the two thousand nine, two thousand ten situation
with the ball fake, and you know, we almost ended
up fighting at that point. But what a lot of
people didn't know was at the end of that season,
he personally called me. I didn't even have his number
for some reason. I just picked up and it was him.

(33:22):
He's just like, you know, anyone crazy enough to funk
with me, is crazy enough to play with me? Do
you do you want to be a Laker? And you
know similar you know, I mean, like the great ones
will test and they want guys that aren't going to
back down from anything. And obviously you've earned Mike's respect
through that, and then you guys went on to win
some championships, him coming back, Um, you guys losing to
Orlando and then coming out and having that tremendous ninety

(33:44):
six season where you guys go seventy two and ten.
What was that like? I mean, to lose ten games?
And then obviously as a coach you surpassed that record
which no one thought would ever be broken. But as
a player in that in that moment, what was that
time like? It was incredible that because is uh, none
of us had ever experienced anything like it. But you
know the fact that Michael had left the game for

(34:06):
a couple of years just completely recharged him. Between him
having a full off season to prepare and being recharged
and motivated, and then Dennis coming aboard from the Spurs
during an offseason trade. We were just revitalized, the whole
whole franchise. And I remember the media asking us about

(34:28):
possibly winning seventy before the season started, and we were all,
you gotta be kidding me. Nobody's gonna win seventy. And
yet we just blitz teams right out of the gate,
and I think we were forty one and three at
one point. It was like we were just looking at
each other, like this is this is insane, This doesn't happen.
But it was that perfect storm because of his absence

(34:48):
and because of Dennis's arrival and just this amazing energy
that existed and Phil's genius as our coach. Just the
way it all happened, and by the way, Scottie Pippen
was one of the great basketball players in the league
at the time. It was an amazing, amazing run. What

(35:09):
was it like with Dennis? You saw stuff and it
fucking blew me away when he left for Vegas and
Phil being Phil, I got an opportunity. I got a
chance to play for Phil his last year before he
announced to us he had cancer and he was going
to step away from the game. And when I tell
people like that's what I saw in you when I
came to Golden State, was Phil implemented his system as

(35:29):
you did. And then you kind of take a step back,
and you're not the raw ry unless you have to
cuss someone out, you're not that. You trust the players
you put out there to allow us to create and
play the game and see the game through our eyes.
What was it like kind of a two part First
of all, what was Dennis like? And then playing for
someone like Phil Jackson. Well, it's a good question because
the way Phil coached Dennis really, um was was the

(35:52):
key to everything um and and it and it really
informed me about what coaching was about, you know, because
as Phil demanded certain things of Dennis and then got
out of his way, and I saw how powerful that was.
Um you know, the idea of giving someone a vision
and then letting them go and then occasionally raining them

(36:14):
back in, show him the vision again, letting him go again.
That's powerful, you know. To me, that's coaching. Because these
players are artists. Man, they're they're they're so gifted at
this level, especially and you know, if you're if you're
gonna call every play and try to orchestrate everything, you're
overthinking things and you're not letting the players be who
they really are. The way Phil handled Dennis was was genius. Uh.

(36:39):
The first year was it was incredible because you know,
Dennis was so excited to be part of the of
the team and he was so different, but he connected
um with guys in in in strange ways, like he
wouldn't say anything for a week, um, you know, but
you've you've like there was just energy from him that

(37:02):
you know what, that's a good dude. Like he just
you could tell he had a good soul and he
so he was vulnerable in that way, like he allowed
you to see his soul and what he was about. Um,
but he didn't communicate a whole lot, so you had
to you had to understand him and get to know
him a little bit. Beautiful minds um finals h M J.

(37:23):
Flew game his amazing game and then you hit the
game winner in game six? How did your life change
after that? I think in some ways it was it
was validation that I belonged. You know, you asked that
question earlier, When did when did I feel like I belonged.
Maybe that's the answer. Maybe it took that long. I

(37:44):
think that was maybe my tenth year in the league.
But you know, I hadn't hit many big shots before that,
and so hitting that shot felt like I actually belong here.
I had to prove it to myself, but I had
to prove it to other people also. And then it
also led to another contract, you know, my I was
a free agent a couple of years later, and the

(38:06):
Spurs gave me a five year contract, which was the
most money I ever made my career, which allowed me
to buy a house in San Diego and and you know,
take care of my family. And so it changed, it
changed a lot of things. I think hitting that shot
probably got me my job in TV, you know, because
playing for the Bulls and having a big moment took

(38:26):
me from a place of relative obscurity too. Oh we
know that guy, and you know, so that season, that
those years in Chicago and hitting that shot, it all
added up to kind of giving me a boost um
to another another level in my own career in life.
I love it now obviously with the last Dance, you

(38:48):
know that you guys win your third title. Seeing last Dance.
There was so much behind the scenes that obviously we
didn't know. I don't know, I'm not sure if you
guys were, But did you guys really feel like this
was really really going to be the last run? Or
at any point did you just think it was talker
did when you guys knew that season? Hey, you guys
really knew it was going to be the last run.

(39:08):
We knew it was done. We really knew. Yeah, we
knew we were done. And uh, you know, it's so
funny because you know, the last Dance came on whenever
it was, I guess it was June July, so it
came on, and it finishes up, and and after the
tenth episode, I had, you know, all my friends are
calling me and the media is asking me, you know,

(39:31):
could you could you? Or why didn't? Why didn't the
Bulls keep the team together? You know what was Rhyan's
store of thinking? Why didn't they just sign everybody and
keep going? And I think that's the logical sort of thought,
But it's never that simple. It's never that simple. And
and what I've what I've really realized, you know, coaching

(39:52):
the Warriors and feeling feeling that pressure that you feel,
you know, going to the finals multiple years in our
case five years or row with the Warriors. With the
Bulls it was, you know, six times in eight years.
I think there's an emotional toll that is so big
that it's hard for people to understand that when a
team loses its edge, it's you know, it's energy, it's motivation. Um,

(40:18):
it's just over. And so people can say, you know,
you gotta if you guys had come back, or you know,
if Michael hadn't left for baseball, you would have won
eight championships in a row. I call bullshit, Like it's
just you know, there's just no way. There's no way
we were There was too much fatigue and it ended
for a reason, it was supposed to end. It was

(40:38):
just that was the time speaking out on that as
a player and what you saw and what you felt.
Did you feel that with this current team did you
feel like you guys had had done Obviously injuries played
a huge part kind of and you guys is not
winning again, But did you feel like because we're in
a different era now, so everything is publicized. Small arguments

(40:58):
don't stay in the locker room, Criticisms don't stay in
the locker room. Everything is for public consumption now. So
did you feel as a coach, which you felt as
a player in Chicago at all, in that Golden State
organization or locker room so to speak. I did. Um,
I could feel it a little bit. You know, the
the last year when we lost to Toronto in the finals. Um,

(41:20):
it was a different type season, you know, we um,
we could just feel. Um, the connection wasn't as powerful. Um.
And it was just human nature, you know. The there's
nothing like the climb. The climb is the best, the
best part. You know, you get to the top and
you've got to start over again. That's that's you know,

(41:42):
it's pretty hard, but it's worth the climb. But you try.
You got to make that climb three, four or five times.
It's exhausting. So we felt that exhaustion. UM. I thought
last year Draymond, Stephen Clay desperately needed to get away,
and unfortunately it took really horrible circumstances, um for Draymond,

(42:08):
or for for Steph and Clay with season ending injuries.
Even Kevin Durant, you know, after three straight years of
going to the finals. Um, you know, uh, I think
he probably needed arrest and Uh, I hated that had
happened the way it did with his injury, but you know,
making these runs out of to me, that's why what

(42:29):
what Lebron incredible? It makes no sense. It makes people
don't understand and I think, obviously because you played and
you're a coach, people to understand the mental drain it
takes on your body, on your family, on everyone around
you as well, because like I said, it's from the
outside looking in. Know you keep k d and you
guys keep running, or Mike doesn't go play baseball and

(42:50):
you guys. It's never that simple. It's it's so it's
such an emotional roller coaster. I mean, and not to
mention the physical grind, but the mental grind is just
as tough, if not tougher, than that actual physical grind. Yeah,
And while you're going through that grind, there's four or
five other teams that are on the climb that are
incredibly motivated, that have been building their teams specifically to

(43:14):
beat you, and that can't wait to play you. And uh,
and you're so you're you're already exhausted and now you
see these people climbing below. You're trying to pull your
leg down. You're like, leave me alone, you know. So
it's uh, it's exhausting. So you know, ten ten finals
appearances for Lebron, But I think, if I'm not mistaken,

(43:35):
this this is nine out of the last ten years, right,
that he will be in the finals. That's insane. That's insane. Yeah,
and you guys had a lot to do with his
record in the finals. But yeah, he got up. He
got our best team. The you know, the three win

(43:56):
team was you know, not our most talented team, but
you know that that team was, oh, steam rolled through
everybody and then and then they got us, So that
one stung. We're gonna get to the to the Warriors,
it was. But I want to continue with what you
had going on. So you leave, m J retires, Scotty
goes to Houston. If I'm not mistaken, you guys, you

(44:16):
go to San Antonio. You guys win that next shortened year.
Correct with a mention, David Robinson and in a very
young Tim Duncan, you landed on your feet. You leave,
you leave a three pet and you go to to
pop in the Spurs and you keep the train going.
What was that like? Yeah, it was really weird because
it was a lockout season, as you mentioned, fifty games season. Um,

(44:38):
you know, Pop wasn't Pop yet, he was maybe in
his third year coaching. I didn't really know anything about him. Um,
But to go there and to immediately be part of
a championship team was kind of crazy, you know. Um,
I felt like I just sort of fell off of
a train and landed on a bandwagon. And you know,

(45:00):
they handed me a trophy and I was like, Okay,
here we go again. It was it was really bizarre, Um.
But I think the the experience that I had in
San Antonio, even though I didn't play a ton, I
made a much bigger impact in Chicago than I did
in San Antonio on the court. But what I learned

(45:21):
in San Antonio has been so important for me and
my coaching career and UH, and and playing with such
incredible guys. Tim Duncan is as good at a teammate
as there is um on earth and and UH. To
go through that experience was was remarkable, given that I
had just been granted the opportunity to play with Michael

(45:41):
Jordan and the and the Bulls. So I've been I've
lived right, and I've lived right, absolutely, So after that
you had to Portland and then you come back and
get your fifth ring. Um, you know my colleague was
a part of that team as well. You guys both
hit big shots to help secure your fifth ring. And
that was your final season. What made you say it's time? Well,

(46:03):
I was thirty seven and my knees were probably my
last three years playing. Um, my knees were really hurting
and I was popping by ox, you know, just to
feel capable of, you know, moving the way I wanted
to move. And it was so frustrating. You know, not

(46:24):
that I was ever very quick or fast, but you know,
you want to feel your best to be able to play.
And so when you get old, and you you probably
remember this, you know, at the tail end of your career.
You know, one day you feel twenty five and the
next day you feel thirty eight and you can't figure
out why, or you know, get banged up. And when
you're young, you know exactly why you you're banged up.

(46:45):
And you get older and you get out of bed
and you go, why does my left hip hurt? You know?
And and so that three years of that thirty seven,
we won the championship and in oh three, it was
just time. It felt rain. Yeah, now I felt that
to the extreme. You know. I came. I was thirty
seven with my my finding you're with you guys, and
it pissed me off because a sprained ankle had never

(47:07):
taken me out like I sprained my ankle, and I'd
always bounced right back. But this sprained ankle was the
sprained ankle of them all, and it just wouldn't heal.
And by the time and I tell people, you know, obviously,
I took in less money my whole entire career to
get into a winning situation because I wanted to win.
And I finally get an opportunity to come to you guys,
when unfortunately Katie goes down, I step in you know,

(47:27):
you insert me. It was crazy. So I'm at working
my kids out DeMarcus were I'm in Sacramento that the
King's talked through me to get to DeMarcus all the time.
So they're reassuring me the whole time they're not trading DeMarcus. Oh,
he's good. He's you know, we're a half a game,
a game and a half out of the playoffs. He's good.
He's not going nowhere. We're gonna make this playoff run.
We're gonna play the Warriors in the first round. So
we have this whole game plan for Sacramento and the

(47:48):
first year in our new arena. All Star Break hits
and DeMarcus gets traded while he's on the podium asking
questions and I'm like, what the funk you guys have
just been telling me for the last three weeks to
a month. He's not going nowhere. So DeMarcus gets traded.
Fast forward. I talked to Bloody. I'm like, Bloody, I'm
too old to try to rebuild, you know. I needed
to try to win, and he understood. He let me go.
Katie goes down. I get an opportunity to come in

(48:09):
and when I tell you, like I wasn't. I went
from being at KFC one night to talk to you
on the phone because I just got done working the Twins.
I was like, You're like, hey, we need you in Chicago.
I'm like, holy sh it. I catch a flight the
next day and then get to Chicago and I played
twenty five minutes. I'm like, oh shoot, I'm I'm back
in the NBA. Let's go, you know. So for that opportunity,
to arise, and then Katie comes back and I get

(48:29):
hurt the game Katie, So I never People don't know,
like I never got a chance to play with Katie,
like we were on the same team. But he was
hurt and then he'd the first game back. I got hurt,
and then I played sparingly in the playoffs. So but
back to your point, I couldn't get over that sprained
ankle and a spring. I'm a football player. I played
through everything, and that fucking spring ankle wouldn't get better.
So it was just it was it was humbling, and

(48:50):
and you know, we got a chance to win it,
to win a ring as as a team, and it
was a tremendous opportunity. But I was just like, it's
getting time and and and you know, and that's why
I wanted to ask, like it was my fourteenth ory,
it was your fifteenth year, like when you start listening
to your body. Could I played a couple more years? Probably,
But I was just I was ready to see what
was next in my life. And and obviously you know
you felt a similar way. Yeah, yeah, I mean, but

(49:13):
but how lucky are we to make it that far
so that we where we could actually say, okay, we
know now it's time. Most players they before before that.
I have to tell one quick story just for your
listeners because it's one of my favorite NBA stories from coaching.
But you know, one of the things that you know

(49:34):
that that I believe as as a coach, and I
really learned this from Pop was, you know, involving family
members um in anything that you can with it with
team stuff is uh is really fun. It's it's just
you know, so we always invite guys to bring their kids,
their families on the plane if they want, and and
so you probably know where I'm going with this. But

(49:56):
so we had a game in San Antonio and uh,
we're staying out in the hill country the Hyatt. Uh
we have a breakfast meeting, and you bring your boys
to the breakfast meeting, the twins and everybody's having breakfast,
and then you know we're gonna get the meeting started.
And you you were like, coach, should I send the

(50:18):
kids back? I'm like, no, no, they're good. They're good.
And so they's and they're they're hoopers right there. At
that time, they were probably I'm guessing eight years old,
seven years old, so they would you know, they would
shoot around before practice and stuff, and they're hoopers. They
love this stuff. So it was Mike Brown's scout. So
I said, Mike, why don't you go through the through
the matchups and he goes, all right, um, we're gonna

(50:42):
change the starting lineup. You hadn't started the previous game.
And I'm sitting in the back just observing, so you're
kind of sitting right in front of me with your boys.
Mike Brown's beyond that. So Mike gets up. He goes,
all right, we're gonna we'rena start tonight. We're gonna start
Steph Clay, Uh, Matt, you're gonna start at the three,
and you're gonna guard Kauai and your boys are the
twins get up and they start going. They start pumping

(51:05):
their fists. They're like, yeah, yeah. It was one of
my all time favorite favorite moments because that's really, you know, ultimately,
that's what it's about. You know, you want to be
able to enjoy everything with your family, and how cool
is that, Like, you know, there were your boys watching
this team meeting and hell, yeah, Dad's starting tonight. Yeah

(51:27):
now that was that was the best experience obviously for me.
To be able to come to a team like that
and just see how you were able to manage so
many different stars and egos and personality and come along
for the common goal. But outside of that, the kids
ride was the best time. Like the chance that the
people don't know, Like the kids flew on the plane,
they were in the locker room, they were in our

(51:48):
pregame breakfast meetings. Like you couldn't tell these guys they
weren't on the Warriors, you know, I mean one game
you let them. I want to say, we were in
the Western Finals against Houston. If I'm a mistaken or
sit and they're shooting with Stephen Katie at the end
of practice, like shooting three and like they were just
blowing away. And so when we finally won the championship,
like the Twins were up, I was sitting in the

(52:08):
back just kind of taking it all in. The Twins
are in the front row trying to hold the Katie
got the m v P trophy. They wanted to hold that,
steph got the championship trophy. They were trying, like you
couldn't tell the Twins that they weren't a part of
that team. So that's why I wanted to make sure
that you know, when I came back and got my ring,
I got them rings, and these kids were on cloud nine.
So I really, oh, I really personally, I never really

(52:31):
I thank you, but I never got a chance to
really thank you because, like you said that that was
to me, that was a perfect exclamation on. Like my
kids got to see me play, My kids got to
be a part of this special team. It was their
favorite team. And then for them to kind of get
rings when Dad got rings, it was just a perfect
time to say goodbye. And I really owe a lot
of that to you and obviously the WARS organization for
accepting me back. So thank you very much for that. Coach.

(52:52):
I really appreciate that. Oh, I appreciate the compliment. And
and um, and I'll just say it was a pleasure
to to coach you. Just your your competitiveness and your
toughness was it was important in our locker room. And
and you know, the the the joy that the twins
brought every day was was great stuff. And and Zaza's
kids would come in and uh, you know, sometimes the

(53:15):
kids would be having like a three on three game
between David West's son and so we had we had
a good group. But but I really learned that from Pop.
You know, Um Pop was the first coach I ever
had who invited family on the plane. And so I
remember taking my five year old son, my oldest on
a road trip, and then a few weeks later, my
three year old daughter on a road trip, and you know,

(53:37):
she was so excited because she was like, you know,
we get to sleep in the hotels, like yeah, and
she's like, we're gonna get room service, We're gonna watch
a movie. She's like, this is gonna be the best
best night of my life, you know, and it's like,
I'll never forget that. And so for Pop to understand
that as a coach, like how how much that meant
to me? It meant It was so powerful that it
was it became a no brainer for me when I

(53:59):
became coach. Got to give the players that joy of
seeing their kids in the same environment, and it's an
amazing feeling. That's one thing that that that people to
understand is is is championship teams are built at the top,
and it's two little things like that. Obviously, you need
everything to be aligned and you need plenty of luck,
but it starts at top with management and when I
tell people when I play for the Words, you guys

(54:20):
literally took You guys take care of all the players
on your team. Have to do is obviously fall in
line and you know, stay ready. But all you have
to do is worry about basketball. You guys take care
of family. You guys take care of friends. You guys
make it such a warm family environment that like we
you want to go run through a wall for an
organization like that, because I played for the Clippers my
first year and we were practicing at a junior college

(54:42):
where we had to keep the back door open to
make sure people didn't break into our cars. You know,
I mean, it's just like little ship. There's levels to this,
and I think you guys did such an amazing job
of just all you guys have to do is go
out and focus on basketball. We got everything else and
then you know, you guys got rings for that. But
back to you retiring from the game, You step into
broadcast booth and then you wept into the front office

(55:03):
of Phoenix during their runs. What was that transition like
from obviously playing, I don't know if you knew you
wanted to be a coach, you went to the front
office first. But what was that change from being a
player to moving into the front office and kind of
managing things behind the scenes. Well, I had a bridge,
you know, doing TV for about four years before I
got into management, and it was important for me to
kind of step away from the grind. And so the

(55:26):
TV gig with T n T was an incredible time
in my life, you know, to be with my family
at home and then I'd fly off and do one
game a week. So it was kind of perfect. You know.
I got just enough time away to keep my wife happy.
So I was out of the house for a couple
of days, but plenty of time at home to do
the things I wanted to do. And then after about
four years, I just started feeling that itch to compete

(55:48):
and to be involved. And I had this opportunity in
Phoenix and and I took it. But you know, I
was GM for three years, but I I knew deep
in my heart that I wanted to coach and I
didn't love being a GM. You know. I like being
on the court. I like being with the players, and
I like the highs and lows of of winning and losing.
Like if you're right in the thick of it, rather

(56:10):
than watching from above and trying to make more big
picture decisions. I'd rather be in the fight. So it
was fun to watch the team. And we had a
hell of a team. You were part of it, you know,
with with Nash and grat Hill and an older shack
older shack By Yeah by that time, and we had
a couple of good runs. But it was not a
job that I excelled at. I was not a great GM,

(56:31):
to be honest with you, correct me if I'm wrong.
You were broadcasting during our We Believe times, right, didn't you?
Weren't you broadcasting when we were playing Dallas? Yeah? I
did the final game. So how loud was that arena?
Because I tried to tell people because I went back
to the championship and we were fortunate to be on
that team, But I still felt like those we Believe

(56:51):
crowds were the loudest crowds I've ever been a part of. Yeah,
I agree, I've told people that many times. That game
six again Stallas, the closeout game was the loudest arena
I've ever heard in my life. It was insane. It
felt like they were shaking the arena like we came
out to warm up and and the stands were already full.
Like normally when you go out to warm up, no

(57:11):
one's really out there yet, you like when individual players
the second they opened the door, the arena was filled
and they were all standing as soon as we came
out there for like the real team warm ups, like
you it was there was an electricity in there, and
there was we knew we were going to blow them
out like that. Home fan base was tremendous, you know,
obviously transitioning to becoming the Warriors coach, but I kind
of wanted to jump ahead a little bit, obviously having

(57:33):
to leave the history of Oakland and Oracle behind and
transitioning to obviously the amazing venue you guys have in
San Francisco. What do you miss about those Oracle crowds?
I always loved Oracle, even going way back to when
I was a player. There was just this energy in
that building that didn't exist in every NBA arena, Certain

(57:54):
arenas that just feels special, certain crowds that seemed to
know the game and love the game. The Garden in
New York feels that way to me, you know, despite
the struggles of the teams over the last couple of decades.
It's still special to go into the Garden. There's a
sense that that there's a real basketball history and and
that the fans know the game. And that's how I

(58:14):
always felt coming into Oracle, going to Toronto same way,
there's this energy in the crowd in Toronto that's really
fun to be a part of. Yeah, it's electric Seattle
the Sonics when you know, playing the old Sonics teams
Key was amazing. The Oracle has always been a special place.
And then obviously to have the run that we did
and get to the finals and and you know, win
a championship at home in seventeen and just feeling that

(58:37):
energy and the joy of the fans was really amazing.
That's special. So head coach of Golden State, your first
crack Um replacing Mark Jackson, what was your philosophy and
expectations Obviously coming into with a new young team, you
start with two core stars and you find out, you know,

(58:57):
Draymond works itself into being a star. What were some
of the ups and downs with that young Warrior team
and how did you feel like you earned their trust? Well,
I think our whole focus coming in was was let's
respect what Mark has already built and what the team
has already built. That was what fourteen fifteen was our
first year. They had the Warriors have been in the
playoffs the previous couple of years. They had a top

(59:20):
four defense in the league the previous year. Uh when
when I became coach, so I'm looking at him like,
this is a gold mine. You know this, This team
is ready to win. They've already they've already become a
damn good team. And so let's honor that. Let's respect that.

(59:40):
And and that was our whole approaching our approaching camp
was we're not coming in here to reinvent the wheel.
We're coming in to help you with the foundation that
you guys have already built, and let's grow it. Let's
get better from here. That was important because the players
liked Mark and had great respect for him, and he
had done an amazing job. He deserved the credit that

(01:00:01):
he had been given. It was controversial when he was
let go, So I thought that was the main thing
we tried to do, was just hey, let's keep building
this thing. And and here's a few areas where watching
on tape, we think we can get better. But other
than that, like, let's let's keep rolling. We had Steph
on the first season of the show and he said
he personally felt like the first one was the best

(01:00:22):
one for him. What was that first journey like? You know,
obviously you being there as a player, you walk into
an amazing situation fifteen you guys get there, What was
that first one like for you as a coach? Honestly,
um it in terms of basketball, and I've had a
lot of amazing moments in my career and been on

(01:00:43):
championship teams, but clenching Game six in Cleveland and as
a head coach might have been the best feeling that
I've ever had in basketball because it's different. It's different
like a lot of times as a player I was
on those teams, I was a reserve. I might have
had a good game here there, and but I didn't.
I it wasn't me. I wasn't you know, the one
winning the championship. You know, as a player, um, so

(01:01:07):
when you become a coach, it's even more so pronounced
because you never touched the floor, right, you never take
a shot, you never get a rebound. But what you
do feel is this responsibility to the group that you're
trying to help them win a championship, and so as
a coach, it's a different vibe. Like you you didn't
you didn't do anything yourself, but this group that you're

(01:01:30):
in charge of has accomplished their goal. And that's a
special feeling, you know, in any kind of leadership role,
when when the group you're in charge of has that success.
It was probably the most gratifying moment of my my
whole career. See, that's that's cool, And obviously I felt
it not a much smaller scale, but you know, coaching

(01:01:50):
the Twins now and we have one of the top
teams in the country and seeing their excitement when they
start to get stuff and understand and you know, we
run similar offenses to what you guys do. When I
tell them every single night, the Warriors are gonna get
everyone's best shot. You know, that's the same with my
team because I coach him and everyone knows the Twins
now every single night you have to understand how to
play with a target on your back. You there's no
let ups, there's no But when we finally start winning

(01:02:11):
these championships and we see I think we're number eight
or number nine in the whole country right now at
twelve years old, you know what I mean. But to
see their excitement and know that I'm I don't shoot,
I don't play defense, I don't do nothing on that court,
but I'm helping them achieve their goals. So I can
only imagine on the highest level, which is the NBA,
the excitement an opportunity like that would bring for you. Yeah. Yeah,
I mean, there's there's nothing like playing basketball. You know,

(01:02:34):
once you're done, you can't play anymore. To be involved
as a coach, to me is the next best thing.
But winning a championship as a coach is a feeling
you can't describe because you you just feel responsible for
so many people. You know that so much can go wrong,
and if it does go wrong, you feel responsible for
that too. But when everything clicks and and as it

(01:02:54):
did that first year, oh man, amazing special feeling. How
do you feel like your experience as a player with
your seventy two and ten team We touched on this
earlier and then the experience coaching the seventy three and
nine team prepared you for that? And did you see
any similarities differences? The pressure not in night out and
like I just said a minute ago, it didn't matter
who you guys were playing every single night, you were

(01:03:17):
going to get their best shot. In that ship alone
is draining mentally and physically. So what was it like,
obviously being a part of the player and then coaching
a team that surpassed a record that no one ever
thought would be touched. Yeah, and I was maybe leading
that charge thinking that nobody would ever beat seventy two,
you know, having been through it as a player, I
was like, no way. But our guys came off that

(01:03:39):
championship in fifteen and they were so confident. You know,
that's one thing when you win a championship, there's a
deeper level of confidence that you now have. That year,
I think we hadn't gotten to the stage of fatigue yet.
It was more excitement of oh my god, we're the
best team in the NBA, We're the best team in
the world. This is fun, you know. And uh so

(01:03:59):
that was a similarity, just this this vibe of you know,
nobody can touch us, you know, let's go dominate. And
so I didn't really have to to say a whole lot.
It was, you know, just just let them let them go. Um.
The only thing I tried to do, was you know,
down the stretch, you know, talk about you know, we're

(01:04:21):
not gonna We're not gonna do anything stupid. You know,
we're not gonna go and push you guys forty four
or forty six minutes in a game, you know, in
order to chase a win that we don't actually have
to have. And I tried to try to play it,
you know, pretty conservatively. And and for the most part
we did. Our minute totals were pretty low that year,

(01:04:41):
but you know, there was there was definitely a feeling
of of you know, nervousness that you know, somebody would
get injured and the whole thing would go off off track. Yes,
so falling short in sixteen that season, uh, Lebron in
the has got you guys to then landing one of

(01:05:02):
the biggest free agent signings in the history of the game, Uh,
picking up Kevin Durant, And it was just like, let's go.
What was it like knowing that, I mean, obviously there
was a bunch of talks when it finally happened. Knowing
that you're gonna be able to add one of the
greatest players we've seen to an already amazing team, yeah,
and and not not just an amazing player, but a

(01:05:25):
player who was going to fit in perfectly with the
way we already played. You know this, I mean Draymond
Green has led us and assists for like five years
in a row. He's our starting power forward. So we
just play basketball and and everybody makes plays. And watching
Kevin over the years um in Oklahoma City, the most
skilled guy in the league terms of shooting, passing, versatility,

(01:05:47):
shot blocking, like it was gonna be such a seamless
fit because of he was not ball dominant. You know,
he didn't he didn't have to have the ball in
his hands all the time, and of course neither did Steph.
They were both perfectly willing to play off the ball.
So it was pretty incredible to watch that group together
and one of the best teams in the history of
the game, one of the most talented, and to watch

(01:06:08):
them on the floor when when we were really clicking
was just beautiful, special, absolutely special. Seventeen. You get a
ring eighteen and then how hard was it? You know,
you guys are at the top of the hill and
you've been there as a player, you know how mentally
draining it is, physically draining is how hard was it
to see you guys go for that three p nineteen

(01:06:29):
and then guys start to get injured. Yeah, I think
you know, you sort of feel it if you're in
the league long enough. Every year injuries play a role
when we want our first title. And fifteen Kevin Love
and Kyrie Irving were both out, So we've been on
the other end of it too, so that you know
that you just sort of go into it as a
coach or as a player and you understand that sometimes

(01:06:52):
things don't go well, sometimes they do and you regardless,
you just have to respond and play your best. And
I was as out of that nine team team as
I was of any of our championship teams, just from
the standpoint of they fought, They fought and almost took
it to seven. You know, um, if Clay doesn't doesn't
tear as a c L, I think you guys still

(01:07:14):
win if play doesn't get hurt. I mean that's my
personal opinion. I think we win that game six because
Clay was Clay was on fire and looking we're at
home and and if it goes seven, who knows, and
and so, but Toronto was great and they deserved it,
and great respect for for their team and their coaching staff,
and they were fantastic. Um, but I walked away from

(01:07:36):
that series as proud of our group as as as
any group that that I've ever been around. They were
they were amazing, They were awesome. Speaking of that that series,
how hard was it managing Kevin wanting to come back?
But still you guys, trying to be cautious as you
possibly can't managing you know, obviously his injury and knowing

(01:07:58):
how many years he still had to play. How hard
of coaching decision, manag decision, doctor, decision, his decision. Did
that play with you, guys? Yeah? I mean it was.
It was a really tricky situation, um. And what we
tried to do was just to make sure we covered
all our bases and and to trust our training staff,

(01:08:20):
trust the surgeon, and then also bring in you know,
Kevin's own medical people and make sure that everybody who
was good with him playing before we put him out there. Um.
In hindsight, UM, I wish we hadn't, because now we
know what what happened toward towards a c L, I
mean towards Achilles, and and so UM, you know, I

(01:08:46):
think we we I think we handled it the way
we thought UM was was the best way. With with
you know, Kevin and his representation and their their own
medical team putting their heads together with with our group,
we felt like we were, you know, in the clear.
But it was it was a it was a stark

(01:09:09):
reminder that, you know, medicine is not necessarily math. You know,
it's not just either yes or no. There's a gray
area in everything. And so when Kevin went down, I
was just my first thought was, oh, man, he he
re injured his calf. And you know, the thought was,

(01:09:31):
you know, what a bomber. He's put in all this
work and and there's the there goes the calf. And
it didn't It didn't hit me until we walked in
at halftime and I saw everybody's faces. I saw the doctors,
I saw a trainer, and I saw Kevin. I was like, oh, ship,
like this this was an achilles and it's devastating and

(01:09:53):
and you know it was Kevin was heroic and in
terms of you know, trying to be out there on
the floor with his teammates, UM he got off to
a great start too. He came out, he was cooking,
he he was he was on fire right away, and
it seemed like everything was good and UM, but it's yeah,

(01:10:15):
it's one of those ones that that will forever look
back on and and go, you know what. Um, we
we wish we could have that one back, but not
not from a not from a process standpoint. I think
the process we handled um in the right way. But
I think I learned from that and that even if

(01:10:38):
the process is sound, UM, you know, just go overboard,
Just go overboard. And don't you know, I would love
to have that one back. And but again, hindsight, right,
we're with the home stretch right now, almost finished up. Um,
Kevin decides that he wants to leave. How did that

(01:10:59):
hit you personally? Obviously as a coach, you know what
the business, but how did how did the organization feel
when he felt it was time for him to move on?
Didn't It didn't surprise us. We all had a sense
that Kevin probably looking to move on and and take
on a new challenge. It's been here three years and
won two championships and been finals M v P twice
and it was just for in his own personal career,

(01:11:21):
was time for a new challenge. And and we all
totally respected that. You know, I always feel like players
should control their own destiny, and especially through free agency.
And you know, once your contracts of every every player
has the right to go wherever he wants. And and
so there were no hard feelings at all. In fact,
it was the opposite. It's like, man, thank you for

(01:11:41):
thank you for everything you've done. You you helped bring
us two championships and almost another one, and and you
brought an incredible amount of joy to Oracle every night,
and our fans got to watch one of the best
basketball teams on Earth. My feeling was thank you and
good luck and you know, get healthy. Yeah. Absolutely, So
you came into the coaching space a lot luckier than

(01:12:05):
most coaches. So you came in in a championship your
first year, you have a hell of a five year run.
Last year, a little bit of reality sets in. You know,
you guys go to a new arena, there's a lot
of excitement, players already hurt. Uh steph ends up going down.
So it kind of becomes a development year. And I
was talking to Draymond a lot that season, like, hey, man,
keep your head. I I can see you're about to snap.

(01:12:25):
You know, what was it? Like coming in at the
highest level and winning and having that run and then
kind of coming back down to earth last season and
you know, your two stars are out. Draymond is still in.
But just a really a season of developing these young guys.
It was a slap in the face for sure. The
injuries to Uh, to Steph and Clay, we're just killers,
obviously you're talking. You're talking about you know, two of

(01:12:46):
the best guards in the league and probably the two
best shooters in the world. So you know, when Steph
went down in the third or fourth game, whatever it was,
it was apparent pretty quickly like this is this is
now a development. You're got to play these young guys
and try to help them get better. And um, you know,
a little perspective is uh is usually what happens um

(01:13:07):
in life. You know, nobody, nobody gets to win every year.
And um, so we had we had been on this
incredible run and it now is our turn to get
smacked in the face. And and now it's time to
get up off the bat and see if we can uh,
you know, get have another run and us we'll see
I think obviously you don't like to ever see anyone

(01:13:27):
get hurt, but I think it was needed. You know
what I mean. You guys had such a tremendous run.
I think dre clay and and Steph needed a break.
And I mean those guys are probably in that five
year span, probably played more minutes possibly than you know,
some of the guys in NBA history, and as far
as a five year span. So those guys went on
the hell of a run. Will rests. So I think
I speak for all of us when we say we're
excited to see what you guys come back with. I'm

(01:13:47):
gonna hit you with a couple of quick hitters and
we'll be done. One player in your era, you wish
you would have got a chance to play with Patrick Ewing.
I loved I loved ings game and is competitive desire.
He was incredible. Thoughts on the Basketball Hall of Fame
class arguably one of the greatest classes. You know, I
rest in peace, Kobe, but you know you've got a

(01:14:08):
chance to play with the young Timmy and know him well.
And then Kevin Garnett. I don't know my history well enough,
but there there can't be many classes more decorated than
this one. UM three three All time grades. UM maybe
the three best players of their UM shared era, you

(01:14:31):
know really when it comes down to it, But yeah,
that was um devastating. You know, learning of Kobe's death
was a you know, one of those moments that you
you'll remember your whole life because of the shock of
it and and feeling feeling that shock with our whole team.

(01:14:54):
UM was devastating, And it still doesn't even seem real.
But you know, this this fall with with Kobe and
KG and Tim all going into the Hall of Fame together,
it'll it'll feel you know, from a basketball standpoint, it

(01:15:15):
feels right. But the fact that Kobe is no longer
with us obviously just takes it. Takes it and completely
excuse everything. It still doesn't make any sense. Absolutely. UM.
Your thoughts on cannabis and CBD use of professional athletes, Well,

(01:15:36):
it's funny because I spoke out about this a couple
of years ago. You know, I had my own uh
health issues with my back surgery that went wrong, and
and so I spoke I was getting prescribed all these
opioids constantly for pain, and and you know I'd read
about this stuff like I'm not I'm not taking this stuff,
this oxy cotton or vic it in or whatever, and

(01:15:58):
it just seems so insane, and so, you know, I was.
I spoke out about the you know, the the athletes
should be allowed to use cannabis, and uh, you know
how we like to play music during our our warm
ups in practice. So I can't remember what song. There
was some song about smoking dope or something, and so

(01:16:19):
so our our video guy puts that song on. JaVale
McGhee is running down laughing, looking at me like like
you know, like he's puffing. Everybody's everybody's cracking up because
I've made this statement. Meanwhile, I had literally tried it
for my for my pain, for my back stuff and
had no success with it. So and unfortunately it didn't work.

(01:16:41):
But because I spoke out on it, all of a sudden,
like I got this reputation as as the pot guy,
like oh there's you know, like or whatever the players took,
they got a good kick out of it. Anyway, So
I remember, I mean I remember seeing you. It hurt
my heart because I remember when I was hurt in
the Portland series, like how uncomfortable you would lay for

(01:17:01):
a second, you would sit for a second, you would
have to stand up for a second, and you would
lay for a second. I'm just like, I can't imagine
what you were going through through that time. And and
I was to the point where I didn't want to
cross player coach boundaries, but I was gonna say, Coach,
let me go on my badgroup quick. I got something
for you. But it was, you know, it was a
little I think I was a little bit before my time.
But I mean, I remember the pain you were in.

(01:17:22):
I particularly in Portland. I remember because I was in
the locker room icing the whole time, and you couldn't
literally sit in the same position for more than two minutes.
Like you would try to lay for a second. You
try to sit for a second, you have to get
up and stay and then you would have to get
up and walk around. I was so close that day
to being like, coach, I got a joint for you. Man,
it's gonna change everything. Anyway. Last question, um historical anybody

(01:17:47):
who were five people you would love to sit down
and have dinner with, dead or alive. Oh man, that's
a really difficult question. That's a good question. It's a
good way to end it. Yeah, I'm a huge sports
fan growing up. I was I was into every sport,
and I suppose I would want to speak with some

(01:18:07):
of the people who kind of laid the foundation for
what sports are today. Jackie Robinson would definitely be one.
I would love to to to hear his story what
it was really like, um, and being being such a
big baseball fan. Um, Babe Ruth would be another. Like,

(01:18:29):
you know, he he was the he was the king,
and he was you know, the MG of his era.
And uh so I would from a from the baseball world,
those two guys for sure. Um. From a historical standpoint,
I don't know, this is a tough one because you know,
there's so much that that I'm learning and that I

(01:18:52):
want to learn about American history, and so you kind
of want to go back in time to our founding
fathers and see how, you know, how can we how
can we have these parallel universes of you know, pursuit
of happiness in life and liberty and and here's this

(01:19:14):
component of of slavery, right, Um, how do you reconcile
all that? Who would we ask about that? You know,
Thomas Jefferson, You know, I know Jefferson had he owned slaves, right,
and he helped write the Constitution and I think going

(01:19:34):
back in time during the course of history, there are
a lot of questions about this country that that I
would want to ask and uh, you know, probably probably
starting with with with the people who were who were
putting the putting it all in place, and you know,
what was what was what was the thought process? And

(01:19:58):
I don't know, that's only three. I've only given you three. Two.
I gotta give you two more, don't I. What I'm
doing is I'm showing you how limited my outside activities
and interests are. I should be naming like some artists
or musicians or not at all. Not this, this is
your this is your dinner table, this is my is

(01:20:18):
my show, every whoever you want. Yeah, probably Lincoln for
that reason, you know, President Lincoln for that very reason,
because he would be able to bridge the education gap
between what happened and uh, you know, late seventeen hundreds
with the founding of our country to all the way
up to the Civil War. Like I'd love to hear

(01:20:38):
that that conversation and that viewpoint. And then, um, who
gets the last seat at your table? The last seat?
I'll give you one. That's a little offbeat, but James
Baldwin the author. I just read a fascinating book about
him called Begin Again, and by a writer named Eddie Gloud,

(01:20:59):
who was beautiful book. And Baldwin had the most unique
look at the Civil Rights era because of his proximity
to it and his brilliance as a writer, and his
friendship with so many of the key figures. He was
so deep and powerful as a human being. Just his humanity.
Knowing his story and learning his story, UM has been UM,

(01:21:26):
really really powerful. If you get a chance. Um. There's
a documentary about him. Well, the book is called Begin Again,
Begin Again. Where is it? There? I go, here's the book,
brilliant book, Begin Again by Eddie Cloudy's a professor at
Princeton Um. But there's a documentary about about James Baldwin

(01:21:51):
that I highly recommend. It's it's called I Am Not
Your Negro and it's about his relationship with Mega Evers,
Malcolm X and Dr King during the Civil Rights era
and all three men were murdered and Baldwin. Baldwin was
writing throughout the sixties about the Civil Rights era and

(01:22:14):
here he's watching this great hope that he has for
his country, and then these hopes are violently turned back
and his own evolution as a writer, as a human being,
and what he went through as a black American. It's
powerful stuff and one of the key figures during the
Civil Rights movement who are young people should should read

(01:22:37):
more about and read his his his stuff. I put
it in my notes as you were speaking, so I'm
definitely gonna check it out. Coach Kerr. We appreciate your time.
Thank you very much, as an honor to have you
sit down. Good luck this season. We're excited to see
what a well rested Golden State Warriors team looks like.
In a thank you, Matt, that was really fun. You're

(01:22:57):
doing a great job and all enjoy hearing hearing from
you and say, hi, did the boys you have a
new Do you have a new son? Right, Ashton? I
got a little one here. I got at Ashton's twenty
two months. Yeah, a little man. So I started all over.
So it's been a blast. Oh man, man, I'll bet you.
I'll bet he's beloved by those twins. They probably take
good care of him. This guy runs the house already.

(01:23:19):
A twenty two months I'm in trouble. Yeah, I'll bet,
oh bet. Thanks for having me. That was great. Really
appreciate it. That's a wrap all the smoke. You can
catch us on Showtime Basketball YouTube in the I Heart platform.
This is All a Smoke, A production of The Black
Effect and Our Heart Radio in partnership with Showtime

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