Van Lathan & Travon Free | Ep 87 | ALL THE SMOKE Full Episode | SHOWTIME Basketball - All The Smoke

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to All the Smoke, a production of The Black
Effect and our Heart Radio and partnership with Showtime. Welcome

(00:20):
back to another edition All the Smoke. That what's good good?
They had another dollar, let's get it. And we got
two very special guests today, Oscar Award winners Trevor free Man.
But man, l Yeah, we're trying something. Man, Let's get

(00:41):
right to it. Man. Two distance Strangers Struck Gold took
home the Oscar a few weeks ago. You guys tell
us how that came about. For me. It was like
last year, everybody saw the same video what happened to George,
and you know, we were all in quarantine, and you know,
we finally had a reason to go back outside. And
it was just like it experiencing those marches and the

(01:01):
protests and seeing how the energy around these names and
these people have been built up in a way that
I had never experienced it before, or like the whole
world was protesting, And it was like through internalizing that
and experiencing every day because we were going out like
every day, like just wanting to be out there every day.

(01:23):
And when you when you're kind of internalizing that the
pain of hearing a different name. Hearing Brianna's story, hearing
the Moss story, seeing George's story, you feel like you're
just living in that loop like of emotions every single day.
You just go through it over and over and over again,
and in that cycle, you just you go from like anger, sadness, hopelessness,
and then hopefully back to being hopeful again and trying

(01:45):
to figure out, you know, how can we stop this
ship from happening. And when I had that idea of
like or that that thought of like this feels like
the worst version of groundhold, it was just like, you know,
I gotta I gotta do something with that, it just
kind of stuck with me. And it was that script,
Like I just went and and and wrote that script.
I wrote it in like five days, and um, yeah,

(02:06):
it's just well it was one of those things too.
It was like, my my background is TV writing, so
you know, you have to write a half hour script
in a week when you get an assignment on us
on the show, and nobody was working, nobody was doing nothing,
and I was like, well, I need something to do anyway,
Like I can pour this energy into this thing that
I already know how to do. And you know, just
see what kind of comes out of it. And then

(02:27):
I tell Van about it and he read it and
he was like, you gotta you gotta do this like
this year, because we were like toying with like do
we wait, do we like shoot this like next year
at the time, and now he was so like vands
are like everybody's like we like the idead comes and
he comes with the script and I think his TV

(02:48):
background is like he's used to pitching something and getting
the feelers on it and see how it goes. And
I remember met him and Nick Um when we started
our companies six ft Over. We had already been having
like meetings about what it was that we wanted to
go out with, and we're talking about all of these
great things we're talking about. We're putting together pitch decks. Man,
We're go and sit down the studios. We have Flyers

(03:10):
animated show, we got all of this different ship and
then he goes, you know, I got this idea man,
it's like a groundhogs Day thing and it's like it
has to do with police violence. And listen to them
talking about I'm like, nigga, are you sick? Like that's
the idea, Like we gotta do that right now, and
we can't wait. Like if we look at it, just

(03:32):
the design of everything was that this was gonna be
a time where there wasn't much content that was coming
out right, where people felt hamstrung, They felt like they
couldn't overcome the obstacles that were in a way of
getting your art out right now, we had everything we needed.
We had to create a vision. We had all of
the sort of connections we could get it all done.
We had great partners with people over at Dirty Robber.

(03:54):
I didn't even know who they were yet, right, and
so it was like we get this done now, we
get a chance to contextual a lot at this moment
for so many people. And after that it was just
gas pedal to the end, Like nobody took a breath,
especially in not tre Vonne in March. How difficult was it?
I mean, if you guys can answer, but bringing all
this together during COVID because nobody was shooting, nobody was

(04:16):
doing nothing. I'm sure the budget was all over the
place because like I said, there's so much uncertainty during
that time. It was I mean, keeping it real real,
it was insane, like everything we were trying to do
defied logic of how this stuff works, of what's possible
even in the non pandemic, like all of it, like
none of it was all just like we're just gonna

(04:36):
aim for the moon and see like what happens. And
there was this energy around the project where it just
wanted to happen. It just wanted to work out. Like
every wall we hit, we found a way through it.
And so it was like write the script. In July August,
we start raising money. We go to KD, we go
to Mike Connolly, we go uh, like everybody's just like

(04:59):
ask whoever you know, whoever you need come to me,
Ask ask whoever you know who will give us any
amount of money to do this. And what makes that
even crazier is they weren't even allowing people to shoot,
Like there was no guarantee that we could do all this,
raise all the money, get to the point where we

(05:20):
are ready at the start line and actually be able
to shoot it. And so we're just doing it with
the hope that we get to September maybe they might
allow people to start shooting again. So we get Joey.
In the beginning of August, Andrew was like the first
person I told about it before I even wrote it,
and he's on board. We get the cast. Things are

(05:41):
everybody's like on board, and we just chase the money,
chase some money, chase the money while we also chasing
permits and setting up the bank account. We started with
zero dollars. We finished production with less than zero dollars.
And we got to the point where we were when
we even we were filming, when we were able to film,

(06:03):
we didn't have enough money to finish all five days
of filming. We were still chasing money while we were shooting.
So we got the money for like the last two
days while we were filming the actual movie. And so
it was all just like building the plane while you
fallen out of the sky together and every I hear
you not man every step of the way, like it
was just like blessing, blessing, blessing, blessing, blessing. Like the

(06:25):
permits they take four to six weeks, we got them
in three days. Like all these things that were supposed
to be obstacles that was supposed to make this impossible
to stay, the COVID stuff that that we we raised
like three almost three thousand dollars, like which would which
would have been enough to like shoot the movie. And
we get we finally get to SAG and they're like,

(06:47):
so you need to have a company, a COVID company
like approved, like create a plan for you guys, is
like testing and everything. We find a company. It's literally
half of the money we raised. So it's like, spend
the money. Spend half of your money that you already
have to be able to do the movie, but now
you don't have enough money to do So we're like, well, ship,

(07:09):
we gotta do it. We just have to go find
more money, more money. And so I'm like van Nick,
everybody to me or everybody just go get five dollars
from somebody, getting like whatever you can get Nick. But
the crazy thing about it was that we had so
many people working on the problem. So many people were cooking,
like we didn't even know what other people's recipes. Like

(07:31):
we're at Lawrence's house, Lawrence Been or another producer in
the movie and me and Trayvon were talking, were talking
about getting the finance right, and me and Trayvon said,
then we said, okay, well, you know, to start off,
if we have to go on our own pockets and
pay for the movie, then we'll do that. That That
was me saying that, not thinking that that was actually
going to happen. Right, God, it will come up within

(07:52):
some kind of way, but now we had to and
it was one of the first things to where the
commitment that I had to make, the first commitment I
had to make was to myself, was that this is
something that I'm willing to gamble on. Because you spend
X amount of dollars on a short, that's money that
you have to be okay with not getting that back.

(08:13):
So it was a lesson for me and that the
idea and the art had to be more than the game.
And that's a hard step to make. Everybody want to
make something dope, so you can go out and tour
on it, get on a jet with it, get a
deal with it, get let into all of the clubs
with it. But when you're making it just to get

(08:33):
it off your chest, that's normally when you hit your mark,
you know what I mean. And Samir was instrumental because
funny story about like Samir. Samir is a guy who
we added to six ft over a little bit later,
but he was the one that was doing the Mike
Conley stuff. And the Rich climbing that Kevin Durant shout
out Mike, Mike Conley, Kevin Durant, Rich Climbing for being

(08:55):
a part of the pro for being a part of
the project. Yeah. And so I talked to Durant, me
and him DM sometimes right, and so I'm hearing that
he's gonna be on the project or he's on the project.
So I shoot him a d M. Go hey, bro here,
we're gonna be working together. No response. So I'm thinking
that no response. I'm thinking, well, damn, do we really

(09:18):
even have that fucking money? Like, are we're gonna be
stuff to do? We? Is this something Nigga telling Samir
that he's Kevin Durant and give the brand so so
and everything. But another thing is stress demands that you
sit in it, right. So whenever you stressed out about something,
one one crucial ingredient to stress is concentration. In order

(09:43):
to be stressed about something, you have to concentrate on
on what's wrong with you, right, And we all do that.
We're like our bodies are wired to do that, right.
We're wired to concentrate on what's going wrong so we
can fix it. As a pro evolution of the trade.
In this situation, we just did not have time to
be stressed out. We didn't have time. I sent the
list of people that I know in this business, all

(10:05):
of my pro black warriors that I sent this script
to and asked to be involved. It's a who's who
in the industry, and of all of that, none of
those people came through. And it's not it's not even
a shot to them, it's just it was something we
had to do. You aren't gonna get no help. Yeah,
we had one guy, my bad one guy came through

(10:26):
after a while, shout out to shout out, He's gonna
be piste off, puffed it, puffed it. Puff Di were like,
Puff was my big cat. So after after a while,
Puff came through them. You know, Puff was very instrumental.
He helped us out. But it was something we had
to do ourselves and with with the people who want
to be a part of it. So chuck me because
I'm I'm in this space. Take me through the process

(10:48):
you guys created the film. Did you take into any festivals?
I heard? I heard you guys sold to Netflix eventually, right,
So take us to the process of once you made it,
it it premiered. What was that route? So we we
shot it. We got it. At that point, we got nobody.
It's just us. It's just a movie we paid for
and made. And you know, we were courting Netflix, like yo,

(11:08):
like we got this movie. All of us have Netflix connections.
We're trying to get them to buy into it and like,
you know, help us pick up this bill that we
like are trying to pay. And they kind of was
like around around, and they just ghosted us. And so
November comes. You gotta like the only festival we were
able to even submit to time Wise with Sundance, and

(11:29):
they rejected us um and so we're like, well, all
we have left is we can submit for the Oscars.
And so that was like I think December one or
a second. We submit, and we are just like kind
of waiting around, like hoping, you know, because you find
out if you actually qualified. Once you submit, you don't
guarantee you qualify. You have to meet all these like yeah,

(11:51):
and so we qualified. We're like cool. Now we're like okay,
so we not only do we have negative money, were like, oh,
like a hundred thousand dollars to the movie or some
crazy number. And now we need to hire publicists to
represent the movie so that we can like campaign because
we submitted for the Oscars. Like cool, all right, So

(12:12):
we we started like everyone's like Rogers, this dude Rodgers
and Cowen is supposed to be the best. He wrapped
Kobe's movie. They want, They wrapped Parasite they want like
so it's like, go talk to this dude. So we go.
We find Craig Craig rivy At at Rogers and Cowen
and he's like yeah, cool, Like yeah, normally we don't
do stuff this last minute. Like normally we get a
movie a year in advance and then we campaign throughout

(12:33):
the year. That's the neural process. Y'all want us to
pick up the movie literally a month before the OSCAR
voting starts, and so we're like yeah, we kind of
like that's what we want to do. And so like, look,
I can't I can't guarantee y'all like anything will happen,
but we could try. Also, the bill is gonna be
like when it's all setting down, like close to three

(12:53):
thousand dollars or something like that, and at this point
we're like who the fun Like who okay? Um? And
so we just like we right, we just like, let's
let's do it. And luckily for me, I had just
sold the movie to Apple, so the check came the

(13:15):
week after this phone call, so I was able to
just pay as we went whatever we needed up until
the point that we could find distribution. And so once
we got nominated UM, Netflix was like, hey remember us,
and they they paid real they had to make up

(13:38):
for the fact that they was at the dance before
it started and then came along and so they we
don't have no bills no more. To put this point,
I do want to shout out one one group though,
I want to shout to people from Tribeca because I
sent it to Amy Schumer and Amy Schumer this is
the first time I knew at the movie really was

(14:01):
going up right, because I sent it to Amy Schuman,
and the Amy Schuman turned around and she got the
people from the Tribeca Film Festival involved and there was
like a conversation with them about them accepting it to
Tribeca UM. But that's not until August of this year,
so we would have had to wait the whole cycle.
So there was some festival love out there. But that's

(14:22):
like the first time they were so enthusiastic about the movie.
And I want to shout the people at Tribeca Film Festival.
That was the first time that I realized, Hey, like
this product, Yeah this people love this. And it happened
right after, Like she was like the next day after
we found out we didn't get into Sunday and I
was like, yo, they really want them. They wanted it.
Like I was like, okay, so we're not like crazy,

(14:45):
So the movie's good, right, Like Amy goes right away,
she goes crazy, she sends it over. We talked to
the lake. We just cadn't make it work. But I
want to make sure that they know that, like we
appreciate it that even though we went the way that
we went, we had to wait. Hat tell someth now,
so Oscar Night comes, walk us through that night. I mean,
you guys have made it, and I mean, obviously it's

(15:07):
a dream, but when you're actually there was to pitch
yourself what was actually like, Yeah, man, I didn't I
hadn't slept in like four months, where like not like
I'm not even exaggerating, like I thought I was sleeping
from January to April and and it wasn't until the
night after everything was over and we won, and I

(15:28):
went to bed that night and I was like, oh,
like that's what sleep feels like, because the stress of
it was fast. Not even was it fast, but every
day you are spending five hours a day talking about
police brutality, just really like talking about it every single

(15:52):
day all day. And then right before nominations, Dante right
gets killed all of our press. We had finally gotten
the press to a point where it was about the filmmaking.
It was about like what we did and like the
art of it. All after we had beat the like
talking about the police stuff to death and the that

(16:14):
happens and it all shifts back and it's like all immediate,
and it's like every interview wants to talk about Downtay Right,
everybody wants to talk about the Shovin verdict about to
come out the next week. And then the verdict comes.
It comes down the last day of voting, so people
have one more day to vote. The Shovin verdict comes

(16:35):
out and it's two hours left to vote, and Hollywood
Reporter Rights immediately puts out a piece about our movie,
and like, just like the timing of it all was
just so crazy, like every part of like what we
went through. It just the fact that we got nominated
around the time the trial started. It just kept lining

(16:56):
up with the whole thing where our movie was the
most in the moment right now movie in the entire
every movie, and people were telling us like, yo, y'all,
movie is more talked about than like the Best Picture
nominees and it's short, and it was just like we
just hit this part of the Zeit guys with what
people were feeling and what was happening in the country

(17:18):
in a way that just we never could have imagined
or predicted. And it's crazy because you say timing is
everything that it is, but I'm convinced of something now
is that timing is everything, But timing is also divine.
Things happen at the time that they're supposed to, and
the best thing that you can do is be prepared

(17:41):
because when it's your time, you gotta be able to
meet the moment. We were having a production call about
whether or not to start this whole thing with premiering
the movie at Tribeca later on and then going for
this the awards season and the festival season next year,
or whether or not to do it now, And I

(18:01):
remember Lawrence says something, Lawrence Bender, what if I produced
a shout to Lawrence Bender and Jesse Williams. Lawrence said,
in order for us to get this done this year,
I'm just letting you guys know that everything would have
to go perfectly. And when you hear that, that's daunting,
because like what goes perfectly? Nothing? You know what I mean,

(18:23):
he goes Everything would have to go perfectly, and for
whatever reason it did, I mean it wasn't when you
look back on it, it didn't go perfectly, but it
went exactly the way that it was supposed. And so man,
it's like I never was a part of anything like
that before Beautiful. Yeah, it felt like magic man. Obviously,

(18:48):
winning an Oscar is a is a tremendous honor, But
what is it like to win an Oscar when you're
telling such an important, timely story, Because I mean, obviously
you can make a great film and hey, we want
the Oscar, but it's a great peace like this was
important and timely as well. So how how how much
did that add to the excitement of actually winning? That
was the thing that probably made me the most like

(19:09):
nervous throughout the whole process, like stressed out throughout the
whole process because we had made this movie that was
so not what you normally see in the Academy, not
the kind of stuff you normally see them embrace. And
we had been told from the beginning, it's like, yo,
y'all gotta walk this really really really fine line, because
this like love it or not, Like this body of

(19:31):
voters is like older white people, and we we not
only have this big black team of creatives and producers,
but we also have a movie about the most hot
button thing being talked about in the country right now,
and you know, they can either flat out reject it
or they can like embrace it. And when we got shortlisted,

(19:53):
we were like, Okay, that's interesting. And then we get
nominated and we're like, oh, like that's it, Like we
might actually be doing something. And then you get to
the point where it's like, well, is it this going
to be that thing where it's just like, oh, well,
nominate you guys, because like, you know, we we like, yeah,
like we we want people to think we like are
almost they are kind of there, and so it was

(20:15):
I was just like, I can't I don't know if
they're gonna accept this, like I don't know if they
can have this conversation with us. And so many people
were telling us like, y'all gonna win, y'all gonna win,
You're all gonna win, from even back in January, You're
gonna win. And I just couldn't believe it until it happened, man,
Like I just it was just hard. It was. It
was really like stressful, just the way of knowing that

(20:38):
if this movie wins, what it says to the world,
If if the the most prestigious award you can win
for film is given to a movie about that was
inspired by the death of George Floyd that is about
police brutality and not like softly about police protection. And
it's like in your face, like making you confront the

(20:59):
thing you don't want to talk about, Like that's gonna
be huge, Like that's gonna be game changing. And so
it was just the closer you get, you feel the
weight of like are we gonna actually do it? Like
is it gonna actually happen? Because it's gonna change all
of our lives, Like even being nomin it's gonna change
all our lives. But winning is gonna it's gonna be spectacular,
like not only are we making history, like no black

(21:19):
persons ever won this award, but also like you've invited
all of these very black, very pro black people to
the conversation in a way that they've never been invited.
It's important. This is for both people. I'll go with
Van first. How has your life changed since winning Oscar?
People from high school and come out through they know you.

(21:41):
Let me hold something, man, you know you got it.
You know you know it's like, oh ship man, the
price going up? Bro, it ain't going up yet. Let
it ruminate for a second. You know. I think a
couple of things though. Number one, obviously we have a
lot more opportunity needs to tell the next story, which
is very important. It's weird um for me, validation from

(22:09):
my community and my culture is first, by far is first,
you know what I mean, It's first. So the conversation
surrounding two distion strangers, the good and the bad. I'm
willing to sit down and have front, front facing conversations
with the people from my community, right because their validation
means something, because it's them that we're trying to make hold.

(22:30):
And the reality is, you don't want to have to
make a movie about this, and I want to make
a distinction about something because there's a huge conversation surrounding
stories featuring black trauma, right and people talking about stories
where black people get brutalized. I want people to pay
attention to the end of our movie. At the end
of our movie, the last picture of Carter that you see,

(22:53):
he's alive. He's not only alive, he has agency. He's emboldened.
He's ready to take on the challenge that exists outside
of his door. And he's going to be brave about it.
He's going to be diligent about it, and he's going
to be persistent about it. And he's telling you into
the camera that we are going to win, like we're

(23:18):
going to win. It's not gonna be an easy journey,
but we're gonna win. And that was purposefully done by Trailon.
That's purposefully done to say that there's not enough forces
out there that can make our community sit in trauma
and perpetuity. We are going to figure this out, or
everybody else is going to have to figure something out.
But America as it currently exists, you're looking at a

(23:41):
generation of people that just refused to live in this
we're not going to live in this and if everything
comes apart, then everything comes apart. But it's not gonna
be like this forever. And so you're making a film
like that, You're you're specifically telling that story and the
OSCAR what it means is that you did it to

(24:04):
a high degree. It means you executed the filmmaking to
a high degree. It means technically, the film looks great,
it's written great, it's acting great, it's shot great, and
you hit your thematic target right perfect perfect. The response
from your community, it's tells tells you whether or not

(24:25):
it's good or not good in that particular point. It
has to come for me from the people who can
understand the experience and who can parse apart what their
emotions feel like. If it's good and authentic to them,
you win. The OSCAR helps you tell the next story,
and the next story, hopefully is a heartfelt romantic comedy

(24:45):
with two black people on a cruise drinking my ties
or high jinks and comedies or black superheroes are all
of that opening the door for you to be able
to do what you gotta do, because they know you
can execute the film in a filmmaking fashion right, I
mean similar in our space. I mean obviously our basketball backgrounds,

(25:05):
knowing that this this space we're gonna have to come
and talking about sports. But month people, we can do that.
You can step into other spaces. We open that door
to go whatever direction respective in several different spaces. So
it's obviously very similar to what you guys have going on.
Trade on. How how's it changed for you? I mean
it's it's been drastic, man, Like the amount of like

(25:25):
people tell you like, oh, if you're win, like things
are gonna be different. But when you actually experience the
I've been on in meetings for the last three weeks, bro,
Like every day it's people like do you want to
direct this? Do you want to write? Like and not
even like like big like big names, big budget where

(25:48):
you're like, damn, like three weeks ago, like like y'all
didn't even like I wasn't even on your radar for this.
Now you're like bringing me fifty million dollar movies that
go like dude, and you're like I could have did
it three weeks ago too, But like it's that thing.
It's just the way the business works. Were like you
have to prove yourself. You gotta prove it. You get

(26:10):
a road laid out in front of your people are
going to probably let you work for the rest of
your life as long as you don't like do something crazy.
You know. It's funny about that too. It's like, you know,
you see people win an oscar for like some movie
where they play like a brilliant heroin addict genius saxophone players. Yeah,
you know what I mean. And then after they win

(26:31):
the oscar, their next movie is a movie with them
and an animated gorilla. And you think to yourself, like,
why are they doing that? And the reason is is
because they come at you with all of these ideas
and you go, well, ship exactly like. And that's why

(26:53):
there is a degree once you've once you've got yourself
into a world, there is a degree of discipline that
comes along with it. Everything you get the most temptations. Now,
there was definitely like a couple of days ago, actually
we got offered. I can't say what movie it was,
but it was It's a really fucking big movie, and

(27:17):
I said no to it like pretty quickly because it
was one of those things where it's like, oh, this
is the trap, this is the thing where like because
it was one of those situations where like directors fell
out they need a replacement and it's shooting like four
months and like can you And it's like if you, uh,
if you told me a year ago somebody would offer
me like something like this and I would say no

(27:38):
to it. I'm like, hey, no, I'm just saying like
and now, like like you said, everything is different, you
gotta like calculate all these yeah where it's like, yes,
that is a great bag and a great like name projeress,
but it ain't like it don't fit. It don't fit
right now, it don't fit with what we're trying to do.

(27:59):
It don't fit the long term and you can't just
like if you fall into it, like it could be
a year or two from now, you ain't like doing
nothing like but it's could you guys have a vision
like you said, you're not just fine like you haven't
you know, you have your plan. Your ship is mapped out,
and that doesn't fit in the plan no matter how
big or what the money is. If it doesn't fit,
it doesn't fit. Who are some of your influences in
the film business that inspired you? Wow, Well, obviously Spike Lee.

(28:23):
I think the finest movie, my favorite movie, the greatest
achievement in black film ever, The greatest, one of the
greatest achievements in film ever is Mobile of Blues, perfect film.
Um uh, Spike Lee, Stanley Kuber, Bill Duke. From a
filmmaking standpoint, obviously you love guys like Stephen pi Spielberg,

(28:46):
Ryan Coogler. I think to me, it's monster to me.
I think Ryan Coogler right now is the best director
work in ease. Just got a genius way of pacing story.
Like when you think about Black Panther right and you
know that Ryan Coogler's you know from Oakland, when you
think about what was done in the filmmaking there to

(29:08):
take that story with all of those powers, with all
of that scale, with all of that mythology going back
to the sixties, and that character and ground that film
in Oakland and the struggle of worldwide blackness, think about it,
that struggle that has to do with the black American

(29:31):
struggle as juxtaposed to an international identification and identity of blackness.
The fight is really between The take away in that
movie is the fight is really between us about how
much we want to help us about our duty and
responsibility to us, and everything that comes from outside of

(29:51):
that is just distractions. Like in that movie Claw and
the CIA and all of these are they're they're just
distractions to the real which is between different versions and
visions of blackness. He did that with a superhero movie.
That's a genius action, right, dude, that's amazing work. But
you know, I'm a film geek. So the Stanley Kubricks

(30:11):
of the world, the Martin Score says, He's of the world,
like all of those guys. So you just have to
have a while, you have to have a palette, you
know what I mean of influences, Yeah, I mean I
for me, it's like obviously like so many of the
names he said, but directly like I'm inspired by Barry
Jenkins so much and the way that he moves the

(30:33):
camera and the way that he he can, you know,
just take something. He can he can make anything beautiful
in a way that I just like, I want to
just study it all the time. But like Alfonso Corone
is another big one for me, Like his his ability
to like bring you into a story and almost make

(30:54):
you forget that like you're a part of it. Is
it's something that I admire. Um one car why it's
just like one of the most beautiful filmmakers, like uh
in the world. And I try to like look at
what makes so many of the grades great and then

(31:15):
I try to figure out, you know, what element of
myself I connect to in that and like how that
shapes me as a filmmaker, because that's that thing where
like like I started in stand up So every stand
up when you're starting out, you're imitating whoever your favorite
comic is, Like it's just barn On, Like did you
just always start out writing like whoever jokes has sound
like your favorite comic, And over time you do it

(31:37):
long enough, you start to find yourself in it. You
start to start to figure out you know who you are,
what your voice sounds like. And it's why we all
have influences. Why everybody was trying to like fade away,
like like Mike can do all this thing until you
figure out you know what you're game, you yeah, like
until you find yourself. I find myself doing it as
a filmmaker and a writer, where you know, I spent

(31:59):
the early part of my career writing for other people,
writing for other showrunners, writing for other actors and things
like that, and then over time, within that you start
to figure out who you are and what elements of
this is, like, oh, this is just the show, but
this part of the script is actually like me, it's
like what I feel, what I want to do. And
John Singleton is another one like I just like the way,

(32:24):
like the way he can tell the story is. I mean,
it's it's gonna be missed, It's gonna to the point, John,
and so you like that's kind of where I found
my influence and and figuring out, you know, how I
want to tell stories visually, Yeah, man, John was resting
peace johns. I got a chance to go to the
there we there or Nick might have been there, John

(32:46):
Singleton when he when when they played Poetic Justice the
year anniversary, NICKI was there right, I went went you right,
that ship was dope. Man. Just rewatch the film and
then hear the whole the stories about who was supposed
to play Wood and all the drama that and then
it's cold but and fun. Fact when I first started
thinking of this shows, Van was our third person get

(33:10):
out of his TMZ contract. But like when I first
started this show, I was like Jack me, and he
was like, who's our third person, who's our start person.
Let's meet Viola. Let's chop it up, Viola, go to Vola,
have a great time. I'm like, Yo, this is gonna work. Man.
Sold you needed a year. I needed a year. They
wouldn't let me out. And you know something about that

(33:31):
is once again, the show is better without me. It
is like the show is better without me. The reality
is that, like everything, people get so caught up in
the opportunities that they missed and the things that didn't happen.
You just gotta know that whatever is out there for you, man,
you're gonna get it. Yeah. Yeah, it would be good

(33:56):
to have your around because you know, I call you
in text sometimes and actually opinion on stuff, so that
the like we have just these random conversations or we're
just bounce some off the wall and go add it
for like thirty minutes. Somebody I'm late. I gotta get
my kids up. Man. I'm a I'm a father and
an activist and a coach, but not what y'all been
able to do. And it's this is another thing. That's

(34:18):
why one of the most mystifying things in the world
to me is Hayden. I don't understand. I really don't
get Hayden. I wish I could, like, I wish I
actually knew a hater so they could explain to me, Hayden,
because I see the show and automatically the show is

(34:39):
a hit. Right, Automatically the show is a hit. And
I'm looking at my guys when change narratives and dynamics
and perspectives, and I'm so filled up with joy for
everybody that's winning. I'm trying to figure out what does
the hate come in? Like, where does the hate come from?

(35:02):
You know? People people say like, uh, well, I say
all of the smokers, Like, yeah, man, those are my guys. Actually,
I was gonna be in this show all you must
really be mad mad about? Right, Yeah? Like you pathetic idiot,
what would you be mad about? So no, man, I'm

(35:23):
I'm I'm happy. And y'all had an idea. Once again,
y'all had an idea, y'all went out, y'all executed, y'all
knowe y'all could do it in the show is now
a staple. It's the saying what I want for myself?
I want from my brother. Man, what has it been
like your journey from where you started to you know,
kind of been known as the black guy at TMZ
to now where you're at with your production company, red Pill,

(35:45):
and kind of just the way things have involved. Take
us on that journey you got you got tired of
seeing you pay for take Vann. It all took costs, Okay, Okay.
So here's the thing about TMZ that I don't think
a lot of people know is I really did not
know what teams was when I got there. I really
didn't know, you know, my girl being there watching the

(36:09):
celebrity news and stuff like that. I never cared about it.
I never looked down on it, but I never cared
about it. Right, the thing that I would look at
the celebrity news shows, I would be like, hey, they're
covering the same five to ten stories on every show.
Like me and her would argue because she would going
there and she would watch the news, and then she
would watch the other one, the ten and she would watch,

(36:31):
uh whatever, the extra and all that. I'd be like, Yo,
they all talking about the same ship. Brad and the
new girl went out on the date. You know what
I mean, It's the same story. And so when I
actually got to tm Z. I was I was unemployed
and I had just lost my unemployment because I lost
my unemployment on accident because I did a commercial, but

(36:54):
I didn't know I was doing a commercial I did.
I did a razor commercial to where these people told
me to come out to Van Eyes and use all
these products and then use a razor. And then when
I was using a razor, do job jumped out and
with you ready for pro prograde fusing challenge or whatever
like that. I'm like, oh, ship and so and so.

(37:16):
After I do that, I get paid for it. And
so then I go on the unemployment thing and I
put down that I did a commercial readjusted my unemployment
to seventy five a week. I fuck, now, I gotta
get a job. I can't. The government's not gonna pay
for me to pay play pick up basketball. First job
is teensy tour guy tour gud okay. That's around the city, right, yeah,
around the city. So I was thirty one, and I'm thinking, man,

(37:39):
all of these great big dreams I had and I'm
a tour guide at thirty one. But I did it
because I go back and I asked her about it,
and she says, yeah, yeah, yeah, take it. You should
take it. She's like, you're gonna be on the television show.
But once again, I didn't know what the show was that.
I thought it was just like he or anything else.
I didn't understand controversy. I didn't get the selacious nature

(38:02):
of the show or anything like that. Also didn't get
the culture problems that existed there um until a little
while after I was like a television sort of mainstay.
I remember I was on TMZ a lot, and I've
said this before, and they did a video there. There
was a video where they were talking about different rappers
and they put up a picture of whis Khalifa and

(38:25):
under that it said little by Wow. I remember things
to myself. All Right, people make mistakes. But one of
these niggas is six ft five and the other one
of them is five nine five. They look completely different. Now,
we are the celebrity experts, like, we're the people that

(38:49):
are supposed to know the difference. We're the celebrity experts, right,
We're the people that are supposed to know. So there's
something in there that's either unrepresented or not being represented.
So I felt it, uh, my responsibility if I was
going to be on the show to go there and
then represent that right, and it was a handful. It

(39:11):
was a job that, to be honest with you, I'll
never endeavor to do again. I'm not going to be
the black voice of reason for anyone ever again. Ever,
how heavy was that lift, because, like you said, you
not knowing the history. I mean, I'm being in l
A so long. You've just always heard and seeing TMZ

(39:31):
Like any time anything anti black or black issues came up,
they looked at you every time. Yeah, but not just them, everybody, everybody, Right,
So the company looks at me, and then the viewership
looks at me, and then our community is looking at you,
and then our community the community is looking at me.
So after a while, it becomes a situation to where

(39:56):
you almost lobotomize yourself because even if you do have
thoughts on a specific issue, I just refused at any
point at TMZ really for me to be too critical
of anything that will come from the black community, because
I didn't feel like I was in a safe space
to do that. Like if we're on like one of

(40:20):
our platforms, we can say okay he's wilding, Okay, she's
wilding Okay, whatever you have to protect us, don't matter
about us, don't matter. Do bring an A K forty
seven to Disneyland. I'm like, you don't know what he's
been through. Like if you grew up and where he
grew up, you bring an A K forty seven to
Disneyland too, But man, should need not have the A
K forty seven around the kids. Funk that you don't

(40:42):
understand next story, you know what I'm saying. And really
that's something for Black Americans period. We get pushed into that.
We get pushed into it because there's there's sort of
no standard of decency in which we're treated. Everything looks
a certain way, so then we we feel like, Okay,

(41:04):
well funk it. This is the thing. And so I
had so many conversations man, and then this I want
to shout out Charlottage and kill the Mike because two
solid brother two solid brothers, right. I want to shout
out Charletagne and killer Mike because when something would go wrong,
like those will be the guys, of course, Kalika, but
those will be the guys that I would talk to

(41:26):
about it, and Mike would be like, because I'm like, yo,
I'm quitting it's all. I'm done. I'm quit. Mike would
be like, no, we need you there, and Charge just
never gets it, trying to be like quit for what
you really care about? What these people on social media?
He don't give a fun He doesn't care at all,
Like why don't quit? What you what you're gonna quit?

(41:47):
You quit? Quit for somebody on Twitter who doesn't know
your life. You sound bug, call me back when you
feel the up. But but but it's a hard situation
and for anybody that's gonna do it now, for anybody
anywhere that feels like you gotta be the black voice
of reason. Hey, I'm not saying that it doesn't have
any utility. I'm not saying that it doesn't that it's

(42:07):
not useful. We need that. But be ready, you're gonna
show in your life. Oh yeah, no question. That's a
lot of stress. I'm not talking. I always wondered that, Broa.
People talk a lot a lot about that. But like
with you being a voice, like they don't understand like
the stuff that comes with it, the death threats and
all that type of stuff, because a lot of people
don't don't have the guts to speak out. But a

(42:30):
lot of people don't like the fact that you have
the guts to speak out. They hate that. They hate
that because a lot of people are dying inside. They
won't they want to say the things you you know,
they want to be as confident, as bold as you.
But then again, damn he that compliment. I can't be that.
The only thing I can I can do it to
reply to that is hate on him, and that that's
the only respond you know what I'm saying, And it's

(42:50):
crazy that way. Everybody got a part to play. The
last thing I say about this is this Mary and
Barry had died in d C and TC and Tims
wrote the headline to people they're like and they came
at me right, And at first I was I felt
very I felt like I got defense if I felt
crazy about that. I'm like, well, I didn't write this headline,

(43:11):
like I didn't write that. I didn't do that. I'm
arguing on the show that the headline was wrong. Why
are coming at me? And then I said, that's actually
not good enough. That's not good enough. That's not the
way you go about that. You can't do that that way.
You can't do that with your people. I had a
conversation with one of my homies from the Nation, and
we were talking about a story that we might want

(43:32):
to do or something that we wanted to do, and
I'll never forget he said to me. He said, not listen,
we'll do this and if it and we'll put the
truth out. But if it goes left, you will be
accountable on you for this. You will be accountable. So
if if you stand in that room and they write

(43:56):
the headline about Mary Barry, that's you. That's you. You
take what comes with that. You either you move on
from it or you you you scab up and you
scar up to where it doesn't bother you. But it's
not it's not that anything that happened at TMZ. It
was TMZ and then Van. You were right in the

(44:17):
middle of the room. Be as you as you can be.
But remember, as long as you're there, you're fucking there,
and you just hope that there's a better there after
you leave. What were the positives from that? I mean,
like I said, it wasn't all bad. You know, you're
not even pertaining it as bad as all. But I'm saying, well,
were some positive some perks being in that position. Uh,

(44:40):
we'll bit positive was being on TV. Being on TV
change your life in l A. Just like you know,
ow TMZ didn't make me rich, but being on TV
in l A is just different. Like it's like it's
like a little club lay so crazy man, Like you
you go somewhere and people everybody's here for one thing.
So people think that you must be special if you

(45:01):
got it. They don't know that you came off the
tour bus, right. They don't know if they would have
felt out, if they would have gone to Entertainment Careers
dot net for that one time and they might have
got that job. They don't know how fortunate it is
to happen, but they think that you've done something. So
it allowed me to meet a lot of people that
that got me to my next thing. All of these

(45:23):
guys here and here that I'm cool with. It's not
because of TMZ, but me being who I am on
that show mattered. And also the Kanye moment was incredibly
important because the Kanye moment tethered me to my community
in a big, loud way that would have been impossible,
right they It was really my audition to be a

(45:46):
part of the solution, and a lot of people have
those auditions and a lot of people go and do
those things, but they don't normally get that much fanfare
um and more than anything, like being at TMZ around
those people that were there, it was a that was

(46:07):
a group of people that I actually my co workers
that I fell in love with. I love my coworker.
Even the guy accused me of choking was my man,
like my dude, and being around I didn't. I didn't
choke the man man. I went to put my hands
on him and say, yo, bro, don't talk, and then

(46:28):
it went left. But I didn't choke him. I never
choked anybody, but like I really didn't choke him, like
if you watch the video, I really did. I don't know.
People people always say that things choke out of the coworkers.
I didn't. But but I grew right like I grew
the people in the office. Like the entire time I

(46:50):
was there, I grew. I wouldn't wouldn't take it back
for anything. Haven't worked there. How excited has it been? Built?
In a new your new show highlining part. I've loved
being at the Wringer. I think I have the best
co host. Rachel Lindsay is a fantastic co host. We

(47:12):
have a unique podcast in that it's like a it's real,
it's real, and it's a male female perspective. I think
that personally, this is what I think. I think that
me and Rachel Lindsay Higher Learning are going to be
the Regions and Kathy Lee We're going to be the
Regions and Kathy Lee a little different, a little bit

(47:35):
more in your face, a little smarter, little sharper. Not
I'm not trying to disc Regis and Kelly and Regions,
but if the show would be smarter and maybe a
little bit more topical. But that's why I see it. Like,
the chemistry is great, the show is great, and you
know we're still feeling out. Y'all know that anytime you
say something, it's a thousand people online that are looking
at to second. But like ship, I'm gonna be honest

(47:59):
with you. Rachel has just like made me more unfiltered
because she don't give an I've been that, she don't
give a funk and she just she's out there and
and also bro, she's super intelligent, super intelligent and sharing
his fill light with black women. I've done. I've done

(48:22):
I think three podcasts now on the Ringer. One I
worked with Jamale Hill. The other one I worked Shout.
I worked with Rachel Lindsay Man. Being with black women
on a podcast and being a part of of the
moment that they have, at the moment that they that

(48:44):
they shared, like the things that they think and knowing
that you're right there, it's dope that makes you know,
I go home. I talked to Kalika about that. I
talked to my girl about that. Yo Man, Rachel said this,
Jamal said this. You just want people to feel and
be seen, and I'm getting the chance to do that
at the ring mm hmm. So Trayvon comedian, actor, writer.

(49:10):
Uh some of your credentials A full frontal the Daily Show.
When did you kind of feel like was what was
the oscar to breakthrough or had you already had you
kind of were already on the pace of I mean,
I feel like it started with Daily Show because that
was like my first TV job, and it was like
it was one of the biggest shows on TV at
the time. John, when did you what what years were there?

(49:33):
I was there twelve sixteen, so I was Trevor and
John and so you know the I started right before
Obama got reelected like literally like a week before, and
that was my first Like, up until then, I was
just doing stand up, stand up, stand up. And then
when I got that job, like everything changed in like

(49:53):
TV because it was like a big deal. And then
now people were like, oh, you can actually like do this,
Like it's the same thing with the oscars, Like you
do it. It's like people like, oh, you can actually
do it, and so um right, and and then it's
like also like I was the only black writer on
the show. Uh, like similar to that same experience where

(50:15):
like you're dealing with the new show, a topical show,
and any type of black any type of ship happened.
It's like all the eyes turned to you, like why
they well, how do you feel about Trey bon Martin,
how do you feel about blah blah blah, like that
kind of thing, and it's super fucking awkward. But that
was the beginning of my TV career, Like I started
at the highest level in terms of like Late Night

(50:35):
because the show happened to that point and one ten
dames in a row. So now everybody's looking at you like, oh,
so you this is just gonna You're just gonna get
it like this is gonna happen. And funny enough, my
first year was their first year losing after years, and
it was like we had black people got that as
soon as we did, but we got it back two

(51:01):
years later. So um, but yeah, that was that was
the beginning. And then after that you could pretty much
go anywhere like people were trying to poach you all
the time. And and then once I had, you know,
John announced he was leaving, and me and Trevor were boys,
and I was like the only person he really knew
what we were the only I was only friend and
he was like kind of had at the show because
we would just hang out in my office. Was like

(51:22):
he's black, I'm black. Actually just kind of like fall
into that that same thing when you like the only
two people anywhere. And so once he got the job,
like I was, I had gotten like a couple offers
to go places, and I was like, I'm just gonna
stay with you and like build this new show kind
of thing. And then once uh, I kind of felt
like I had run my course there and I've been

(51:42):
doing it long enough. Came back to l A and
got really into the scripted TV game, and so I
did like camping on HBO Black Monday with Done on Showtime,
show Time. Everybody Showtime is great. I loved the Showtime
people Man. And then it was just like TV show
off the TV show The Lakers, the Lakers drama on HBO.

(52:04):
And then it was just like just sitting around like
the show. Everybody had either finished the writer's room, everything
had been like shut down, shut down. So that's when
the movie came. It was like I came up with
the idea for the movie. I saw to Apple with
the Edges Elba and and like the very very beginning

(52:24):
of the pandemic and me and Simon Kenburgh, so that
while that was like happening too, Distant Strangers was kind
of happening in between it all, and we sold that
movie last August and then it just it was weird
because like you were watching the world kind of collapse
around you. And then like but professionally, like my life
was just like doing it. Just started doing this and

(52:46):
it was such a like strange thing to kind of
like balance. Yeah, he had it not to cut you
off a similar ship, like we found our group during
the pandemic. It came out a lot better than we
win it's like, damn, I'm doing well, but you see
what the world I said, everything around you is crumbling. Yeah,
and you're like, yeah, I'm super blessed to be like
in this position and like doing all this stuff. And
it's like it's just crazy that when like everybody's world

(53:09):
collapsed and it's collapsing around you, and people are like
frontline workers and like uber drivers and all these people
are like having to deal with all these issues and
you're like, man, so are they gonna buy my movie
or like, like the problems are just so different and
you're trying to like not like feel like an asshole.
It's like then you're just like, but this is just
what I do. It's just me. It's just been what

(53:30):
my life has been, this business, and I'm just fortunate
that that's what it is. And so once all that
started happening, like you just got us to here, man, Like,
it was how do you feel like you're experiencing in
your journey? Prepared you for to distance strangers? You know,
it was being at Daily Show for as my first

(53:51):
job was like like you were talking about stack like
stuff just sets you up to be prepared for everything
you're supposed to get and that show is so fast paced.
You have so much responsibility and you have so little
time to get it done. Like that show is four
nights a week, is live to tape. Is we started

(54:12):
nine am? You have an hour to write your script.
You have twenty minutes to rewrite your script after you
get your nose back. You got rehearsal at four o'clock,
you got rewrite at five o'clock. The show is on
at six. That's every single day, and you have a
building full of people who were just like scrambling all
day making that show happen. And it's a testament to
why it was so good, because it was like everybody

(54:33):
knew their job, everybody was good at their job, and
they just did it and you wanted to like work
hard for somebody like John because he was so good
and such a great leader. And so having that experience
for four years, I always say it felt like like
comedy and like TV college. Like it was like I
got my four year degree and how to run a
TV show, how to run a production, how to lead

(54:53):
a group of people in this particular like setting, if
you if it came to that, And so once I left,
everything else felt low. Yeah, it was like anything like yeah,
I'm like, why are we not? Why are we just
sitting here? It was like, oh yeah, because it's nothing
like I'm used to like go go, go, go go.
And so when stuff does happen, when you're doing something
and there is something to be done, you just you

(55:14):
just already for it, like Firefighters, Like that's kind of
test them to the movie though, the same thing you're saying,
how the show was really fast paced. Look at all
of the ad living and all that stuff that I
had to do to get the show done. All kind
of stuff was coming. But experience is the best teacher, bro,
And that's basically what you're saying. I've been through it already,
so anything that comes now, I know how to deal
with it. That's exactly what it felt like. It was

(55:36):
like all those moments you just didn't feel like they
couldn't be done, they couldn't be fixed or couldn't be conquered,
and it was all because, like working on two of
the best lady night TV shows in TV, you just
had to do it and you had to learn it.
And how people had that resume though, killer that's that's yeah.

(56:01):
We went on show like you said, I mean, he's
been doing great work for so long, but now he's
getting the recognition because of that, because I've been killing it.
Huh Like, yeah, you know, you might just know me
now because of this. But I've been doing my things,
so obviously that's things. But you're a hooper to Domingus Hills.
Where were you there? I was at Domingus. Yeah, that

(56:29):
was that Domingus from three so samere had just left.
You missed Jason Thomas, Yeah, I just missed him. Yeah,
And then m Thompson was a sucking Mons two sports man.
He scared me a death with a quick story. In
the eighth grade, we played him and he had to
play it on a team called p t I and

(56:50):
this nigger was Win Milling slapping the last in eighth grade.
I remember I went home and I wrote in my
diary in schools like I just seen Jason Thomas this weekend.
There's no way I'm going to the NBA. And probably
the next week he probably went through tint. He was
like a man in the country too. Man. But you

(57:13):
talked to us the Doman guests. Yeah, yeah, that was
crazy because like our fresh my freshman year, I think
like severe that was your sophomore year, right. We won
the national championship that year, and it was like it
was like basketball, it's like stupid championship. Yeah, it was

(57:34):
like it was like Tyson's junior year and the team
was just like crazy, Like it was crazy being fifteen
and going to play basketball in an arena and like
people lined up to like get your autograph and you're like, bro,
we're the same age, Like this is so crazy and
this is pretty social media though, just like they get
to see you when person is different. It was I

(57:56):
mean we were like we're touring the country, like we're
playing Eddie Curry over like Dwon Wagner and like like
uh ce say, and who am I forgetting some here? Um?
Just like so many like the biggest names of that
like that era of yeah, like he from my area.

(58:22):
It was. It was this was high school like and
you're playing like future NBA. Also, like everywhere you go,
the team is like a nationally ranked like crazy team.
And so that was just like it seems like everywhere
I was going, I was being thrown into like the
the highest version. Like you're gonna learn real fast. Everywhere

(58:44):
you go. You have to learn real fast. And it's
been that same way like every time. And then so
like after you know, I graduated in two three and
I went to Loumbie State, we went to the tournament.
I think my senior year was like the year we
went to the tournament twelve five game, got beat up
by Tennessee. It wasn't that bad we were, That's what

(59:06):
it was. Already going to Tennessee. He might already been going.
I think he was, yeah, because the thing was, it
wasn't like we played bad. They played amazing. Like we
we led the nation in scoring that year. We average
eighty nine points a game, uh that season, and they
came out shooting like yes, sixties seventy percent from three,

(59:31):
just like was not missing, and like we were making shots,
but we were like making layup so like doing it,
and they're like three pointer, whatever we do three pointer,
And I was like, oh, y'all just like hot, Like
there's nothing we could do about this, Like we're not
we're not turning the ball over, We're not like like
messing up our plays. It's just like y'all are just

(59:51):
bawling and the aready. Nothing we could do about it.
And so it was fun man, like to play in
the tournament, like if you get a chance, like it's amazing.
And so I was happy that, like at every stage
I got to like experience at least the thing or
wherever the high point of that thing was. So when
I graduated, I was like, I was happy. I had
knee surgery. That's why you know that. Yeah, my sophomore

(01:00:14):
year blew out in practice, and so I only played
three of my four years because after I did the rehab,
he it was so hard, man, and I just didn't
want to do it. They take it out, took it out,
all of it. Yeah, Yeah, they had to take percent.
I tore my this week with the Lakers, and I
was out like seven weeks. They took out. So every

(01:00:34):
once in a while, I have to do this. And
so he told me they were going to like what
they thought they were going to do when they ended
up being yeah, because like he showed me the picture afterwards,
and they ain't like nothing in thereship because it's hard
to get blood flow in that area to try to
rebuild everything. Yeah, Hooper's story, but just the events around race, racism,

(01:00:55):
social justice, how has that impacted you in the last
couple of years and do you see light starting to
come out at the end of at the end of
the tunnel the term social justice Like for me, we
we We're just trying to live, you know what I mean.
It's like, I guess there is a very strategic way

(01:01:15):
you have to go about getting what you want in America,
but you don't when you're black, you're initiated. You don't
have to decide to get a cause and go This
is like about surviving or as I call it, stur thriving.
You want to be alive and you want to be well.

(01:01:37):
You know. So the answer to the question is there
allied at the end of the tunnel. No, there's not.
There's no light. Uh. Things will I'm hopeful that we
figure things out. But I just hope people understand that.
Like we talked about so many different things that you know,

(01:01:58):
talk to people and people go, hey, I'm gonna get
I'm gonna get a lot of money, I'm gonna give
back to your community. That's dope, that's amazing. Everybody should
do that. Everybody should should seek to We live in
a capitalists in a capitalist society, everybody should seek to
get a lot of money and create a lot of
jobs and do all of that stuff. I just hope
people know that that's not what we're talking about. What

(01:02:21):
we're talking about is intentional systemic dysfunction. Intentional systemic dysfunction.
I want you to look all over the world at
places that had systems that were intentional, intentionally unequal. Right,
if you look at apartheid in South Africa. In order
for South Africa to turn, apartheid has to go, right,

(01:02:46):
it has to go. Obviously, that's different than what we're
talking about here, but we're talking about participation in cooperation
in the guts of America, in the guts of it,
in the guts of what this country is. And it's
participation that is black people we've always had. Like it's
it's interesting. There's a god called whiteness is a god complex, right,

(01:03:11):
Like whiteness as it exists is the belief that this
was all created by one omnipotent force, and you're lucky
to worship that force. That's what white supremacy is. You're
lucky to be here. We took you out of Africa
right where you were running around with a fucking bone
in your nose. You couldn't read you had no culture,
you had no nothing. We came you, We came you

(01:03:33):
over and we taught you how to use a salad
for it. And what you should do is for in perpetuity,
you and your progeny. You should worship that. Right. That's bullshit.
That's bullshit. Number one. What we were and what we
are on that continent is completely different than what you
said on culture, on family, on laws, on hierarchies, royalty,

(01:03:59):
rich is, wealth, doctors, scientists, all of that stuff. People
figuring out the way the world works over there. So
that's bullshit. And then over when when you talk about
us coming over here, you didn't do anything alone, Like
Franklin said, Brick by brick, the labor that built the

(01:04:20):
country is on a sweat of my ancestors. There's been
the only thing that we've ever been the big given
license to do in America is be exploited. So systems
built on that. How do you fix them? Well, you
can try to fix them by participation in those systems,
and some of us will win that way. But the

(01:04:42):
better way to fix them is to reprogram the systems themselves.
And that's hard because that means that somebody has to
do what nobody wants to do in America is lose.
You see what I'm saying, Like, they're cool with us
losing because they put us in a position to lose
for a John. So the question then is, all right,

(01:05:03):
I'm what I'm asking you is, I'm asking you not
to grease the wills for everybody around you to get
an advantage. I'm asking corporations to pay the appropriate tax rate. Right,
I'm asking for real participatory action into America what you
say you want. And once that happens, we'll get together

(01:05:24):
and will work in our communities and will fix them.
But the piece of the pie, it has to be
divvied out equally or with some sort of equity. Now,
anytime you start talking about that, any time you start examining,
or when you say you want an accounting of America,
you want to open up the books. You want to
know exactly what you're entitled to as an American citizen.

(01:05:45):
And I use the word entitled because these are promises
that have been made promises, So you're not asking for nothing,
You're not working entitled to people talking about people complaining, well,
complaining about freedom and the America would be like your
lungs complaining about air. It's that simple, Like your lungs

(01:06:07):
are entitled to air. Their function is air. As an
American citizen, your function is freedom. They say no, and
they have all kinds of reasons that they don't do it.
We don't have environmental freedom, we don't have social freedom,
we don't have freedom of movement, we don't have any
of that. So we need to overhaul. We need serious

(01:06:28):
people to do it. And it's not philanthropy, is not
posting black squares on your Graham, it's not. None of
that is dirty, hard, rigorous work by a lot of
people who are looking in a lot of fucking mirrors.
And so my hope is that this is the beginning

(01:06:49):
because of the information, like even the people in the
past right that they would have us look at right
and give us examples of their lives. They always give
us examples of people that they shot up, lives that
were ended. We don't think about the fact that Malcolm
X and Dr King were just men with families. Forget

(01:07:14):
about being these great social social people and people that
changed America. They were guys with families. Mothers lost husband,
kids lost dad's no more daddy. Government killed daddy, and
then what we look at that and we go, Okay,
they left great lives. They sacrificed for what. They didn't
sacrifice ship. They were murdered. Like Nancy Pelosi said, George Floyd,

(01:07:39):
I know that somebody close to you stack sacrifice his
life or whatever. George Floyd didn't choose to die at all.
So stop acting like there's something virtue was in black death.
So what I'm saying is all of these things have
to change, Like all of these ideas have got to change,

(01:08:01):
and in order to change, and we gotta face them.
And so I'm hopeful that we can start to face them.
And I think that there that there's so much information
in there. So and by the way, everybody's the last
thing I wanna say about this, guys on I know
I'm drawing on. Stop looking across the other side of
things and picking apart what it is your brother or
your sister's doing. Do your part, Like, stop arguing whether

(01:08:26):
or not no name is right, or whether or not
Mike killer Mike is right, Like, do your part. Jump
in there right. If you are a black capitalist, tell
me how we're gonna win. If you are a socialist
or Marxist. Tell me how we're gonna win. Get the
information out to the people and let them decide what's

(01:08:48):
the best way to fix America. But stop, we have
to look. I do it too. Sometimes. I went on
the whole rant about van Jones, the whole rant on
my podcast about Van Jones. You know what I did after.
I know how you feel, But you know what I
did after I picked up the phone. I called Van Jones.
I apologize to him. And the reason why I apologize
to him, it's because I don't. I don't agree with

(01:09:10):
a lot of the ways that Van Jones like. I don't.
I don't. I don't agree with a lot of the
ways of vantages. That's not real. If you're gonna agree
with everything somebody say, that's not what the reality is.
There are people who are incarcerated who are home with
their families because of the work that he has been doing.
I'm not gonna hang out with trumping them. I'm not

(01:09:31):
going up there to sign no bills. I'm not doing anything.
While I might go up there to sign a bill,
but I'm not gonna go I'm not doing all of that.
But that's his thing. It doesn't matter what I think
of it. I can't stand in a way of progress.
So whatever conversations, whatever, whatever we have, let's talk about
them to each other. And that's what I'm saying, and
I'm hopeful that those things can start. I try to

(01:09:52):
simplify for a lot of people. Man, just imagine you're
starting the business and you hire thirty employees, the third
employees build your business to a billion dollar business. But
then you treat them like ship. They're gonna eventually turn
on you. And that's what that's this world, that's that's
the that's the United States. You tell then you tell

(01:10:12):
them they had nothing to do exactly. So that's this
is what we're going through right now. You can't continue
to expect the people that built this place to live
the right way, or to overlook what's been done in
them and continue to treat them like ship. And they're
not rebel on you. You know what I'm saying. We're
waking up now. It's not just us then, you know,
like I said, what happened if Georgie put me in

(01:10:33):
this position and I don't even consider myself for actives,
I'm going I'm just doing right by the community. I
don't want to be putting that position because I'm not
that because I know people that go by that Yeah,
I mean neither. You know what I'm saying. They go
by that title. They've done great work, so I don't
even I don't even want to diminish their work and
put myself as an activist. But at the same time,
we all have a part to play, and if you
out there doing your part, you don't have time to

(01:10:55):
word about what somebody else is not doing, that they're
doing it right or not. We all have a part
of player. We all have the same goal, and that's
to get treated like human beings and not like animals
and that and when people think like that, man, it's
easier for us to get there. But everybody is always
worry about what somebody else is doing. And then again,
I'm gonna finish on this. Everybody has their religion who
they pray to. When you get ready to go and

(01:11:16):
you're going to your judgment day, you're not getting judged
about what somebody else did. It's about what you did
on this earth and the good you did, So worry
about what you do. Live righteous and I think we
get there, you know what I'm saying. But we but
we have to worry about what we can do ourselves
and not what somebody else is doing. But I think
also too, I mean, any change we fight for now,
however part whatever role we play, we probably won't really

(01:11:37):
see it. You always say that as we have to understand,
like what we're doing now is our kids are gonna
see and my sons are gonna see. If you guys
have children, have children soon, your kids are gonna see it.
So it's also fighting something for you know, you really
may never get a piece of you don't really never
get the benefit from. And are you okay with that?
You know? But I think obviously once you become even
if you don't have children, but I know, like once
I became a father, like that outlook changed, like damn,

(01:11:59):
I'm doing all this. I'm not gonna feel it. But now, no,
I'm doing all this now because my kids are gonna
feel it, and their kids are gonna feel it, and
the next generation needs to see it. So I definitely,
I just feel encouraged from a standpoint of you know,
for four hundred plus years it's been one way, and
I think for the first time, unfortunately through George Floyd
being killed they're listening that some of them may have

(01:12:20):
pretended they're listening, but enough people are listening now, So
what is our strategic plan moving forward? Like, we can't
continue to fight, kill and do all this ship and
think we're gonna overtake it. We gotta overtake it with
our minds, you know, and our unity. And I see
some of that. Obviously, we take a couple of steps
forward and then take a few steps back. But I
think overall we're starting to understand, like together, we're not

(01:12:40):
the minority. Because of the skin color. They try to
call us the minority to keep us in our place,
but we're actually the majority. And the only thing I want.
It's so simple. It's like people come to me, like
what do you want? Right, And we're all successful guys,
we're sitting up there and we're talking about what's wrong
with the country. A lot of people look at that,
and they go, hey, look, you got millions of dollars

(01:13:01):
up here, a thousand dollars over here in Van and
and and and and they and they say, and they say, like,
you know what, this is what I want. You know
what I want safe black people. If I just want safe,
safe means environmentally safe safe means economically safe, do you know,

(01:13:25):
Like it's like we talked about stress and trauma. I
just think about like one time my dad was real quick.
One time my dad like he saw my um or
my uncle Mark passed away. He was on drugs for
you know, most of his life, and he had gone
another pin and stuff like that. I'm seeing in the
truck my dad and my dad hangs with the phone.

(01:13:50):
He goes, man Mark back on that ship, and he
gives himself a split second to be sad about the
fact that his brother was back on drugs. A split
sector and he looks at me and he goes, nigger,
if I ever catch you fucking with drugs, I never
forget he cut the cough. I hadn't done nothing. You

(01:14:13):
know what I'm saying, Like, cut the cough. If I
ever catch you fucking with drugs, I will kill you myself.
He looks at me, like, look at me. Don't you
bring that ship in my house. Don't you funk with
nobody that's sucking with that, Then I'll hurt you. He's scared.
He's scared. He lives in the community where his son

(01:14:35):
has to deal with that. He's upset. He's scared. He
saw what happened to his brother, doesn't want to happen
to me. Now he's got to make now, he's got
to put fear in me. This this we're not safe.
We don't feel safe, and we need to build more
apparatus in America where we feel safe so we can
live out our lives. That's all I'm saying, Safe Black people.

(01:14:55):
Thoughts on you being a foremor athlete, obviously athlete role
in continuing to amplify these messages that are our community
are coming up with, the activist are coming up with,
and how important that is. Jack and I had a
disagreement when the NBA was going into the bubble. He thought,
and we like, we really like completely opposite, different size,

(01:15:17):
how we thought, but we talked and understood the pros
and cons of both sides. But he thought that people
shouldn't play. We should continue to march, fight, bring awareness.
I flipped it, thinking like if we do play the all,
you know, our voices are going to be amplified with
that NBA logo behind us, Like you'll be able to
hear Lebron or hear CP, but you won't be able
to hear our whole message. Our whole message travels around

(01:15:39):
the world when that logo is behind it. So we
we went back and forth with you know, whether guys
should play or not, but they played. I thought they
put the message out. How important you think not only
basketball but athletes and other entertainers, Uh, how important is
for them to continue to push the needle and make
people uncomfortable. I think it's It's of the things I

(01:16:00):
think is so important because athletes are some of the
most famous people on the planet, and like there, sports
is one of those things where people leave their their
party lines at the door when you show up to
the arena. You're a Lakers fan. You're not a Republican
Lakers fan or a Democratic Lakers fan. You're a Lakers fan.

(01:16:21):
And that's the bulls and funk the Bulls. The Lakers
better win this game. And so when you're cheering on
and supporting these athletes across any sport, I think among
from my experience, there is a fear of not having
the knowledge of the ability to speak like the people

(01:16:44):
you see on TV when you talk about an issue,
to be able to support it or to voice how
you feel to or you have to be heard, and
I think that causes a lot of athletes to just
say nothing or to just kind of hide in the
shadows and like let Lebron and let Chris and let
Magan Rapino on it all. Like when you step out there,
they're gonna listen to every word and look down. So

(01:17:05):
when you do take that leap of faith, it's scary.
It is, and I totally get because you're like, I
got a brand, I got millions of dollars to protect
my family. It totally makes sense. What I what I
think we can get to is a place where it's
a more cohesive voice, where you don't have to feel isolated.
And I got to know all the ins and outs

(01:17:26):
of the George Floyd Act to be able to talk
about why I support elements of it, or why I
support this or why I support that, and let it
just like let them, let them do it for you.
But I think it's, like you're saying, so many millions
of people are listening and paying attention just seeing black
lives matter on the court every game is making you

(01:17:49):
face it. If you're a fan who's been trying to
avoid it, you can't there. It is and you have
to be confronted with it, and if if more and
more athletes, if more and more organizations with some sport,
the athletes in using their voice to to talk about
the things that are plaguing their community. Because you have
an NBA that's like black. You have the NFL it's

(01:18:12):
like seventies something for saying black. How can you as
an organization look at the fact that your entire business
is built on their backs, on their ability to perform,
and you ignore the things that they take home every
day because they think they're doing you a favor by
allowing you to play. Exactly, they don't. They don't understand
that you worked hard your whole life. It's to give

(01:18:33):
from God that you have. They didn't do nothing. They're
giving your opportunity that you take an advantage of it.
So they that's how they think though they think they've
given you something that you didn't work for. But I
think that's what we I mean, we need more empathy
and understanding at my point of view, because you can't
expect uh middle class, upper class white men to ever
understand our struggle because they will never have to go
to us. But we're asking you is to kind of

(01:18:54):
step outside of your life and and not even walk
them out on are you just put see if the
motherfucker's fit. I have an understanding of our day to
day battles, So why would they do that? You got
you got black people that see people struggling in their
own neighborhood and they get out and make it and
don't even think to go. You know, they're in that
position with these people, you know what I'm saying. So

(01:19:14):
how can you expect another race to care about our issues?
And we don't even care about our own people. So
both of y'all are right in my opinion, And and
you know this, that's a very you're not supposed to
say on the podcast, fuck that ship, No, But both
of y'all all right, So either way it works, but
it just you have to be committed to it. Now
what you just said is very very very key. It's

(01:19:34):
like what you what you said is people sometimes make
out the the the projects, whatever, they don't give back
and stuff like that. It's actually not even in our nature,
like that's learned. Like we're cooperative, right, But if you
get so, we have to make a decision as a

(01:19:55):
community whether or not we're actually a community or we're
just a bunch of people that you know what I'm saying. So,
so like like we were like we have to make
a decision about whether or not we're a community or
we're just like a bunch of people that survived some ship.
Because right now, if we all, if we all like
on a plane, right, we're on a plane, we cruise
into our altitude, right, we're going to like I don't know,

(01:20:17):
can'coon whatever, We're going someplace like we're all gonna go
he bro, look at this movie. When I'm gonna watch
this movie, and I'm gonna watch the movie go, hey man,
I can't wait till we get there. When we get there,
we're gonna be like, we're gonna coordinate. We're all gonna
work together. If the plane goes down, Me, tray Vaughne,
and Matt are going to be like, let's eat Jack.

(01:20:40):
If the plane goes down, we're gonna start looking around
and being like, okay, who can we eat Jack? Can't
swim so right, right, So we because now all primary
focus is surviving something. So it's like fucking I gotta
stay warm, I gotta stay fed, and not everybody can

(01:21:00):
do it, right, not everybody can stay warm and stay fed.
Everybody can't. So then we start looking for the weak
person who can't, and then we get them out of
there and we take what it is that they got,
And that's just not community. That's not what the community is.
The community is seeing somebody who may be struggling or
who may need to look at helping them because of

(01:21:21):
a belief inherently and a top belief that they're going
to add something when they get to where you are.
So in terms of your point, that's what we have
to decide, whether or not we're a community, or whether
or not we're just a bunch of people that survived
some ship because survives gonna go their own way. As
far as what you guys were talking about in the bubble,
I really didn't like. For me. It's like Kyrie Irvin

(01:21:42):
is my favorite basketball player on the planet right, He's
my favorite basketball player because I think he's doing something invaluable.
He's giving context and perspective to this. He is playing
basketball and basketball has provided him, uh a great life
and a platform. Is NBA basketball as important as what's

(01:22:08):
going on in the Middle East? Now, It's just not
you have to be a moron to think that when kids,
when kids are dying, right, So when he when you
put a mic in his face and he goes, hey, yeah,
basketball is cool, but I want to talk about what's
going on in Kenosha, Wisconsin. We we gotta have that.
And the rub is that we can't have that if
they're not playing, you know what I mean. But then

(01:22:29):
if they don't play, that would be a huge, huge, huge,
big thing too, because that would be working on people's
pockets so bad. So I think both people are right.
But I think one thing that we have to do
to Trayvon's point is we just have to know what
we're saying. I see so many people and I see
stephen A. Smith, uh, and I love stephen A. Smith.

(01:22:50):
I see s A. Smith being critical of Kyrie and
being critical of like what he's doing and how he's
comporting himself. I think that balance is needed. I think that,
to be honest with you, if athletes would have been
like this in the nineties or in the eighties, we
might be better off right now. And I'm not I'm
not coming at those guys. I'm just saying, yeah, it's
ship going on. I know the dude could put the

(01:23:12):
ball in the hole. But what else you got for us?
I personally like like making white people uncomfortable. I think
they actually I think they think better and on their feet.
I think we're doing a disservice to white people by
keeping them comfortable because they're not gonna do it right,
and now we're gonna have to come at them. The
best thing we can do for white america's continuously made

(01:23:32):
them uncomfortable, and then we'll all get to a place
where maybe we could all be a little bit more.
I mean, it's crazy you brought up Kyrie because I
was someone who was opinionated on this thing, because it
didn't seem like when he first came with the idea
that he had a plan. To me, I wanted to
have a plan. This is another thing. He and I
went out ye talk every day, and it was it
was because it's just like, you know, you have that

(01:23:53):
platform with you're poky, You're not gonna play. What's the plan?
Not playing is not solving anything, like you said, You're
just you're making people mad because games are, but like
what you're planing. And then once I kind of figured
out what his play or hearing what his plan and
seeing that he really had a plan. I had to
take a step back and ad I was wrong, because
like to me, I think, like I said, our strength
is our platform, Our strength is our voice. Our strength

(01:24:13):
is our ability to connect dots, our strength of our
ability to get our voice around the world. So okay,
if you're just gonna set out, that's you're wasting all.
But he was doing more than just what at this
What if he didn't have a plan. What if he
just said a black man got shot today, I don't
feel like shooting the basketball. I would understand that. But
to me, it's it's not like that's your that's your
individual choice and that's what you want to do, you

(01:24:34):
know what I mean. But to criticize other people that
want to go move forward and go ahead and play,
I'm not with But if you do like I said
and find out that he did have a plan, like
I had to take a step back and it admit
I was wrong and have extended a hand and and
and sitting down and having a conversation. But I completely
agree like the way he handles stuff now And to me,
I mean, we're transitioning into the basketball conversation part of

(01:24:55):
the interview right now, I think Kyrie is the best
player right now he's ever been because he's so clear
on who he is as a player on and off
the court, supercarm and he's so at peace with who
he is on and off the court, and not a
motherfucker can't disturb that. And then usually when you're at peace,
that's when you're at your best and everything you're putting
your first you know, you're putting your your foot first. Two.
So I love what he's doing. I definitely love that.

(01:25:18):
Look at this season he had though the sixth player,
seventh player. Yeah, so it's and fast after fast in
the month. M I don't understand his game. It's incredible.
He just got told so much in his bag. You
can't you don't know what it's not even a but
it's not a bag. I think it's I think it's
disrespectful the call. What Kylie ever has he got like

(01:25:40):
you know, like them a little Infinity symbols forever whatever
he wants. Yeah, so my man, yeah, my rolling, right,
my man Rolling. He works with he works with Kyrie,
And he told me one time because like I'm trying
to get my game back right for the adult men's leads,

(01:26:02):
he went through. He not too long ago. If y'all
don't know, he went back to some old footage. He
was a little heavier and he showed itself. Duncan, that
was a while back then. I don't know if you're
gonna get back to that. Let's say. Here's the thing, though,
it's not about Duncan anymore. The player in the NBA
that has set me free, Luca, I can do that, Bro,

(01:26:26):
I'm telling you, Bro, I can I can do that. Bro,
that likely six to seven. But I'm in the I'm
in the men's league. Though, in the men's league, I'm yoking. Okay, alright,
I'm saying. So that's what I'm saying. Like I look
at Yokis and I'm like, sometimes, Bro, Yoki is just crazy, Bro,
like this nig is not fast. Like and I'm looking

(01:26:46):
at Yokas, I'm like, Yo, I can do that, and
I hear I hear IRV and be like, Bro, I
just sent him Yoki clips and stuff like this, and
be like van stop, I'm actually working with a real
NBA player. I can do But he told me, he said, Kyrie,
and it's something that I even can't because people think
they know about basketball, but they really don't know anything
about basketball. A lot of people it's like Kyrie really

(01:27:07):
just he's not even setting you up. He's just really
reacting to whatever the whole game, whatever it is you do.
He's going at full speed, just reacting and you don't
even look right. I can't think of anybody that's been that.
Maybe Steph has been that skilled. Steff is pretty like.
I can't think of anybody that's skilled with him and
one thing with them their basketball. I Q was through

(01:27:28):
the rule. So it's mine, bro, Like this time, name
is the most drop on this show. No I can play.
We brought term on turn got some left person not

(01:27:49):
a celebrity. Thoughts on the playoffs Laker fans and Nets fans,
who you guys have? What are you interested in this?
Uh seesons playoffs? Man, it's hard not to ride from
my team. It's I just want the Lakers to play well.
That's on your team that you on the chance um

(01:28:10):
maddeling injury coming into the playoffs. I'm not getting my
hopes that man. As as it's been bad, just know
it's got the two players that hurt uh Tsunami, Hurricane.
Anything can happen. They still got a chance. Yeah. Yeah,
I mean it's one of those things where, like you you,
you can't count out Bron Like it's hard to ever
kind of them out. I mean I've I've you know,

(01:28:32):
every we've all watched him play for the last like
ten years like a monster and just defy so many
odds and come back in three one and do all
the things that like you just you just you can't
count them out. But I mean, father time, man, you can't.
It's I mean, I don't gotta tell y'all like it's
it's when you play that high level long enough, eventually

(01:28:54):
your body is like enough in his prime, his whole career,
which is insane. Yeah, And so I mean, I'm hoping
we're not witnessing that, like him start to creep over
that thing just yet. But you know, we all know
it's coming. Holly Jane's wife said, he's setting it up.
I'm hurt. I beat Steph And when he's setting up

(01:29:15):
the home he's doing. I thought about that too. I
was like, I wonder if he's just like bro. I
wouldn't doubt he planned the injury game and he don't
come back and just like he was catching lives and
doing his old ship he was doing when he was nineteen.
So Bron, is he gonna be straight? What about you? Man?

(01:29:35):
Who are you? Who are you riding with? And what
are you looking forward to in these playoffs? I think
the Lakers. The Lakers are fine. Um. I don't think
going on the road to win it's gonna be as
big a deal this time because the arenas aren't full.
So I think the Lakers are fine. I think, uh,
it's really the Lakers aren't so much. The question, I
think the question for me is what really do these
other teams have? Is Phoenix legit? Is you tall legit?

(01:30:00):
All the Cooper's legit? Like all these teams when they
when push comes to shove, are they really ready to
make deep playoff runs? You got to realize when the
teams right now they're looking at the wounded Lakers and
they got blood dripping right here to get them. Yeah,
I'm waiting. I do think though, have to have the

(01:30:20):
Lakers as an eight or seven and they would be
favorite and the favorite. That'd be crazy. And imagine them
coming from a seven or eight seed to me in
the Western Conference and m CPS, my guy there the
two seed, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was
a one eight or to seven upset in the playoffs
this year. I don't think at the top from a

(01:30:41):
conspirac standpoint, can really handle. You know, the meat of
the pack has been there, at the top of the
pack hasn't really been there. So I wouldn't be surprised.
In the Eastern Conference, you guys like you guys like
over there, the the Wizards have been interesting, like you
know they I think they finished the season like pretty strong. Well,

(01:31:02):
I mean the sixers is sixers and nets nets. To me,
Milwaukee is the sleeper to me in the Eastern because
they've flown under the radar. They've always been the one
seed with you know, and I always last couple of
years and having achieved that, but now they've been under
the radar working on different lineups. Johannice is the months
of Jannice can be that regular season guy in the playoffs,
Holiday and twice. So this is a thing for me.

(01:31:26):
Like in the East, obviously, if Brooklyn is healthy, Brooklyn
is the favorite, right, but the East has some really
interesting wild cards, like for example, Miami has the experience
right Miami has the experience. Miami has guys who have
been there. They just made a run. Yo. The Bucks
have a kind of weird favorable matchup with the Nets.

(01:31:53):
The Bucks can defend with the Nets and I'll scoring
and I'll score them. So the Bucks, the Bucks, they
don't have it not a favorable match up, but it's
a weirdly good matchup for him, Holiday can be effective
and slowing down, Kyrie, you know you can use Jannis
a little bit on durant Um. I am not saying
anybody's gonna stop those guys, but it looks like like

(01:32:13):
on his face that they may be be able to
compete with them, you know, in a series. For me,
the interesting thing is how good is Joel E and B?
M hm, Like, how good is Joel? And I know,
I know he is a motherfucker, But like, is he
is Joel E and B right now? Shock in ninety
five or is he Shock in two thousand one? You

(01:32:35):
know what I mean? Is he is he ready to
take over? Shock has always been a dominant force, but
at one point it was a fucking joke. It was
a joke. Is Joel and be ready to take completely over?
Because if he is really ready to be that guy.
He's that guy down then like you you then then

(01:32:57):
they're dangerous too. It's just hard to pick against. Oh,
we haven't even mentioned my favorite team in the whole league.
Now my favorite team in the whole league to me,
the guy who was the league m v P like,
I like, I love watching their next play man stop.
Julius Randall is the I love watching the Knicks. I

(01:33:22):
don't understanding what you originally from. I'm from Louisiana, bat Rouge,
and how you get to have been a Laker fan
because we lived out here for a couple of years,
like a year and a half. I remember my dad
had this contract and the guy they couldn't let my dad.
I've had to ask you that they couldn't. Like seriously,
my dad was a semi finish out here and he
had this contract with this guy and the guy was like, look,
I can't meet that number. But my brother just gave

(01:33:43):
me some Laker tacks and my dad's like the game
and we go see the Laker game. I'm looking around
this bitch, I'm like I'm sitting there. I'm like, yo,
is that our senior hall? And my dad was like yeah, yeah,
famous people come to these games. I'm like, Yo, this
ship is a amazing why would you be And we

(01:34:04):
didn't have a team. So I've been on the Lakers, man,
I don't funk that people always do that to me.
I suffered with the Lakers through the down three era.
I suffered. I suffer through the Lakers. I was the
Robert Sackray era when we when we like had like
fucking you know, D'Angelo Russell was on. Yeah, I was like,

(01:34:27):
shout out D'Angelo Russell. I'm not but you know that
whole like I was with them. So yeah, I'm I'm
a Laker fan, but the Knicks. But I love watching
the Rows do his thing, bro, I love watching I
love watching these guys and they play so in spot much.
You don't speke much for the Knicks in the playoffs.
I don't spec gonna come out of the East, but
they're not gonna come out there. It might be in
the taining to watch and play a couple of games,

(01:34:48):
but you know, let's slow down now. Shout out to
coach TIBs though great turnaround, quick hitters man. First thing
to come to mind. And you guys are collaboring on
some of these answers. So together your top five artists music? Music,
Oh shit, just in any genre? Uh Rihanna, Hove, Drake,

(01:35:11):
fred o'bang, Okay, Barrouge, Louisiana, look at it by time
go home, fred o'bang, thank you for going home. Um,
Tam and Paula. Who Tam and Paula? You only y'all
listen to Tam and Paula. I'm not familiar. I'm not familiar.
I listened to listen to Tam Pola in your life,
Broo you got, I'm gonna go. Kendrick Cole, Drake, Frank

(01:35:38):
and Ja Okay. Top fives more most impactful films traightmon
impact for films um in no particular order. I'm gonna say, uh,
do the right thing, Boys in the Hood, The Godfather, Moonlight,

(01:36:02):
um and uh oh God, what's the first fifth one? Um?
And to this and Strangers. Yes, if you ever do
a black version of Godfather, I'm getting into the business

(01:36:23):
Matt walking me in so I will be perfect for
that movie. Man. If you just sit at any game
court side in NBA history, what game would it be? Oh?
Ship the Pointer? Yeah, Toronto. I don't give a fuck
if we well know if how good we work as
we did win the game man to watch that great

(01:36:47):
cook like that and the narrative like the we were down,
Kobe did what he had to do to win. So
that would be the one that that There were games
that like obviously see you know, bigger games and stuff
like that. But to watch him do that, you could
be in any movie set ever to see how it unfolded.

(01:37:07):
What movie would it be? Thank you, matt Um. Yeah,
there's two movies in my head and I'm having a
hard time picking one because it would either have to
be Do the Right Thing or The Guy Father too.
Second one, man would be Reservoir Dogs. That would be
a good one. You know. You know it's funny you

(01:37:28):
said that was just like a movie. No, it's because
I watched Reservoir Dogs recently. And you know, Lawrence bend
is one of our producers. Shout out to Lawrence and
I and I and I text him about this and
I'm always very blunt about it with him. That movie
Don't hold up, Man, don't hold ups, don't hold up.

(01:37:49):
You can't predict what's gonna happen. Look, man, there is
so many absolutely unnecessary niggas and reservoir dogs. It is unwatchable.
What's Who's Go watch the first minutes, Go watch the
first twenty minutes the reservod dolls today, and tell me

(01:38:10):
after you watch it that you're not going You can't
pick out five niggas that don't need to be in
the script, and any nigga that's not sad by nigga
in the movie not supposed to be in the script?
What you mean? That's really just don't it just it
don't hold up to me, man, It don't hold up
to me. But and I say that as a person
who loved that movie and hadn't watched it for in

(01:38:32):
a long time, and like last month I put it on.
Go damn, man, this just feels like gratuitous in a
way that I'm not really sure about it anymore. And
but no man shout out then five dinner guests dead
or alives. Okay, you know this is gonna be This's

(01:38:52):
gonna be all the place tough. So it's like, uh so,
uh Ella Baker Trump fans, who was Ella Baker? Ella
Baker is one of the most not talked about people
in black his stores because she's a black woman, that
was very vital in the founding of Snick and was

(01:39:17):
like a mentor to John Lewis and Stoken Carmichael and
guys like that. She's just like amazing. So I hope
to bring her story out to the masses one day.
So I would say Ellen Baker. Damn, it's a tough question.
Marvin Gaye. I think Marvin gay had like an incredible life.
Barack Obama, you know, I want to meet Barack Obama.

(01:39:40):
I've never met Barack Obama before. Uh, Stanley Kubrick. And
probably James Baldwin. Probably James Baldwin. Interesting, Yeah, probably James
bald h I would definitely say Baldwin. He's on my
shirt right now. That's like like one of my one

(01:40:01):
of my gods. Obama, Um, for sure. Malcolm, Yeah, my favorite.
His birthday yesterday, Malcolm and Martin. You know why, because
like that would be interesting conversation just to like contextualize
that a little from a little alcohol and see what happened.
And then there's just like really to get Martin too

(01:40:23):
drunk work, and then I think like maybe to really
like like mix it up. I throw a hove in there, Okay,
just because I just imagine just cut fucking crazy. That
would be there's questions for both of y'all. Who do
y'all want to see on this show. I want to
see y'll rapp it Obama, man, that would be dopeest

(01:40:44):
luck to that's I want to I want to see that.
That would be like the Shaun King episode. Me. I
probably wouldn't say much as to be sitting there listening.
I gotta smoke, though, I'm sure he did. You just
smoke squaws. Yeah, he's just like used to smoke trees.
I gotta smoke. I want to just see he got
them purple lips showtime he got I know what smoking

(01:41:08):
lips look like. Not at at ten times, but not
at times. I can tell you I'll smoke of Byes lips,
but nine purple. That's when I knew Jack. I traded
to the Warriors. I looked at you, I knew he smoked.
I was like, we're gonna get along just fine. And
look at us now years later anyway, man, fellas, we
appreciate your time. Thank you man, Congratulations on the Oscar

(01:41:29):
and all the success and hopefully it opens plenty of
doors for you guys and your team. Question for it's
what basketball question. If the Warriors get in as a
A C right in a seven game series between this
these A C Warriors and that we believe Warriors, if
they got Clay and all them, I don't know this

(01:41:51):
this team right now, this team right now, Yeah, we
got him. We might be able to get there. No Clay, No, Katie,
we got him. A good question. If they ain't got Clay,
we the show got him. So no, I'm talking about
this eight ceed Warrior. We got them versus the a C.
We believe we would trap the step everywhere and then
we would just be able to control everybody we got
by five people, we can throw us Steff, you're playing
in this era now, Yeah we're good. Okay, we step

(01:42:14):
kind of basketball though we shot a bunch of three
we started that. All right. That's a great question. Just
still they just step. You don't know what Steph gonna do.
We gotta when you had Clay to the mix. So yeah,
I wouldn't get we ain't got a chance of you
and Clay don't. We don't want to go to the game.
Had hurt with this. This team would just I like
our chance. They got some young sters now that yeah,

(01:42:35):
I'm a fan. I'm talk about this a c right here.
No wine, but I know it's not eighth verse eight,
eight versus eight. No wines. Gotta get chance. Nobody got
a good chance. Okay, I like that. Good question. Well
that's a wrap. All the Smoke Trade one Free Van
Leathan Oscar Award winners. Congrats again, fellas. You can catch
us on Showtime Basketball, YouTube and the Heart platform Black Effects.

(01:42:58):
We'll see you all next week. This is all a Smoke,
a production of The Black Effect and our Heart Radio
in partnership with Showtime

All Episodes

Van Lathan & Travon Free | Ep 87 | ALL THE SMOKE Full Episode | SHOWTIME Basketball

Episode Transcript

Hosts And Creators

Stephen Jackson

Matt Barnes

Popular Podcasts

United States of Kennedy

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Van Lathan & Travon Free | Ep 87 | ALL THE SMOKE Full Episode | SHOWTIME Basketball