Episode 6: Fragile

As celebrities from Hollywood stars Chris Hemsworth to Simon Baker wax lyrical about Lennox Head, locals like Scruffy speculate about Bronwyn and the whereabouts of her remains.

Analysis of a missing person report made to police by her estranged husband Jon Winfield in late May, 1993, strongly suggests that Bronwyn is alive and telephoned Jon’s daughter Jodie to say she had moved to Queensland and would not be coming back. Bronwyn’s brother Andy Read describes it as a lie to try to show proof of life.

In her absence, Bronwyn is described in the missing person report filed by Jon as having come from a ‘deranged’ family. The dedicated mother of two girls couldn’t defend herself against lurid claims that she was like her mother, Barbara.

Bronwyn’s cousin Megan emphatically rejects suggestions that she unwittingly helped Jon.

Read more about this case and see photographs, maps, timelines and more at bronwynpodcast.com. 

If you have information which may help solve this cold case, you can contact our team confidentially by emailing [e-mail]

If you need support, Lifeline can be reached on 13 11 14.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Listeners are advised that this podcast series Bromwan contains coarse
language and adult themes. This podcast series is brought to
you by Me Headley Thomas and The Australian. The acclaimed

(00:42):
actor Simon Baker, a crime solving EmPATH in The Mentalist,
grew up in this place. Lennox Head, Oh.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Yeah, you're the one they were telling me about the psychic.

Speaker 3 (00:54):
He's not here.

Speaker 4 (00:55):
He's here, and there's no such thing as psychics.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
The Hollywood star played the role of a troubled dad
doing his best in the Netflix series Boys Swallows Universe,
based on my friend Trent Dalton's remarkable novel of the
same name. Simon Baker drove down the Coast Road and
Memory Lane with sixty Minutes reporter Alison Langdon when he
returned to his dark brick childhood home.

Speaker 5 (01:21):
Here it's going to somehow have an impact on you
and affect you in a way when you're living here.
The power of what this landscape is, it's got this
intensity in it.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
Just a little farther north, the actor Chris Hemsworth often
favors the famed Seven Mile Beach near his home off
Broken Head. Celebrities live something close to a normal life
in these parts. They're not hassled or ogled by the locals.
Mary Nolan holds the stop go sign outside one of

(01:54):
the schools from time to time as a part time job,
and he used to see Chris Hemsworth come to collect
his children. Maray and Deb's son Dale sees Chris in
the water when he's back from making movies and TV
action series Here.

Speaker 6 (02:09):
Dale's often said to me, surf with Chris amsoft today. Yeah,
he's just a normal every day go Really, he seems
very down to earth.

Speaker 7 (02:16):
Good on him.

Speaker 6 (02:16):
It's probably good that he's living out him, not in
the la buscle and bustle.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
The surfing culture is very strong in Lenox and while
many in the community have strong views about him, surfers
do respect John. He is knowledgeable about conditions and weather.
He's neither aggressive nor greedy when it comes to competing
for waves. But they've also got a nickname for him.

(02:42):
Bromwin's friend from the early nineteen nineties, Denise Barnard, shared
it with me as we sat at a table in
her Lennox Head courtyard overlooking a plunge pool.

Speaker 8 (02:53):
John's very well known out in the surf how is
he well known? They call him JTM, JTM, John the
Murderer JTM.

Speaker 9 (03:04):
That's what he's known as.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
Does he know that?

Speaker 10 (03:07):
I don't know.

Speaker 11 (03:08):
I think a lot of people have the idea that
she's done something sinister with Bromwin way back then, and
he's got away with it and he's store outliving the life,
and that's what they call him.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
Shortly before this podcast series began, one surfer asked John
a brutally blunt question. Murray heard about the exchange and
shared it with me. Did you kill your wife, mate,
the surfer asked John, No way. John replied she was crazy.
She ran off his story that Bromwin, in his words,

(03:46):
was not right in the head, that she was like
her mother. Barbara has endured three decades. Here's Bromwin's good
friend deb again, recalling conversations with John in May and
June nineteen ninety three.

Speaker 6 (04:01):
He kept trying to paint the picture that she was schizophrenic.
You know a mother schizophrenic. You know your sister sitzophrenic.
He kept saying this to me, right, and.

Speaker 4 (04:09):
I said, no, this is why she was alive.

Speaker 9 (04:11):
After she gone.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (04:12):
He tried to paint this picture of Bromwyn to me
she'd lost the marbles, and I thought, no, she was stressed,
but I didn't see any evidence ever been schizophrenic and
living with him, she was obviously very nervous, like if
she was having someone over for coffee, she would actually
ask me could they come down here in case John
come home and she had people there.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
I've been studying a one page document typed in Ballener
police station at the time John Winfield reported his wife
as missing. It is an account of the purported facts
and circumstances as John explained them to the police officer
who was on duty, Julie Donovan. Officer Donovan's name and

(04:53):
badge number are on this document. Each relevant section has
been filled with black type, as you would expect. It's
dated May twenty seven. It includes Bromwin's date of birth
in late April, her height of five foot eight which
is one hundred and seventy three centimeters, her fair complexion,

(05:15):
her green or hazel eye color, and what was described
as her racial appearance of Caucasian white in the checkbox
for hair color. The option of colored or dyed is
noted in another checkbox asking whether there are fears for
the safety of the missing person. It states no. The

(05:36):
name of Bromwin's GP, doctor Christopher Mitchell, and his medical
practice are also noted on the form. Then there's a
narrative of a few hundred words at the foot of
the page. I've talked to police contacts about this section
and they say that it is based almost entirely on
the initial account provided by the person who went into

(05:58):
the station to make the report to in this case,
John Winfield. In the narrative, Bromwin is referred to as
a POI, and that's an abbreviation for person of interest.
You are going to hear a voice actor who will
say the words.

Speaker 12 (06:16):
Person of interest was last seen at nine thirty pm
on sixteen May nineteen ninety three, after making several phone
calls from the above address after husband Jonathan was in Sydney.
Apparently the two had been officially separated since twenty two
March nineteen ninety three. On the night of sixteen May,

(06:36):
the person of interest had a conversation with her ex
husband and informed him that she was leaving. She stated
that she was leaving and going for a couple of
weeks holiday.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
In the first notification to police, John has asserted that
Bromwyn had said she was having a break of a fortnight,
whereas he told Broman's brother Andy and sister in law Michelle,
as as well as Debbie and Murray, that she was
going for a break of a few days. Here's how
Michelle described it in episode four.

Speaker 13 (07:09):
When he first spoke, he was going down the lines
of she's walked out and left, and she's left me
with the kids, and then it switched to she needed
a break for a few days. She's gone away for
a few days to get ahead together.

Speaker 1 (07:25):
There's something else that's off about the dates and timings.
According to the account being given by John to police,
Bromwan was going away for a couple of weeks, which
would have meant that by the end of the month
May thirty, he would have expected her to return to
the house and to her children. On his account, the

(07:47):
one he gave to the police, which was different to
the one he gave to her family and friends, Bronwin
was not even missing when he made the May twenty
seven missing person report. Did it occur to the police
to question what was really going on, to dig into
whether Broman's family, particularly her brother Andy, and Broman's friends

(08:09):
had pushed John to make the report in the first
place because they understood this was very unusual behavior. The
next line in the missing person report, based on John
Winfield's information to Ballina Police officer Julie Donovan, is remarkable.

Speaker 12 (08:26):
On eighteen May nineteen ninety three, the person of interest
telephoned her ex husband's daughter, Jodi Lynn Winfield at her
salon at fifty seven Flinders Road, Woolaware, and informed her
that she was in Queensland and that she was not
coming back.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
If accurate, this line would be a powerful indication to
police that Bromin was alive and well, and that although
Broman had not made any contact with her brother, or
her mother, or her daughter's or her half sister, or
her friends and neighbors, or her employer, she had, according
to John, telephoned her stepdaughter, Jody, the eighteen year old

(09:07):
with whom Bromwin had argued on the telephone. Because of
the fact that Broman and her girls had moved back
into the house at Sandstone Crescent, Jody's work telephone number
at the hair salon in the Shire in Sydney where
she was working was typed on the form. I spoke
to Broman's brother Andy about the purported telephone call to

(09:28):
the hair salon. I only want to know what you
clearly remember the missing person report that the police filled
out after John visited Ballana police says that a phone
call was received in Sydney.

Speaker 4 (09:45):
It's really significant.

Speaker 1 (09:47):
It's staying effectively that Bromwin was alive after John has
left the house. What do you know about this purported
phone call by to Jody at the hair salon in Sydney.

Speaker 10 (10:04):
We received word through John about a phone call that
came to the salon on the Tuesday. Michelle had rung
me to say supposedly Bromwin had rung Jody salon. And
I got home and I thought, wow, how wei was

(10:25):
at and tadd Michelle. I then left and drove down
to the salon at all aware and parked across the
road and waited for my last client to walk out.
And I went and knocked on the jaw and introduced
myself and I said, what's this about Bromwin Winfield supposedly

(10:50):
ringing the salon today? And the lady at the salon said,
I don't know whether it was Bromwin or not, but
AM rang the salon and said, tell Jody, I'm okay,
I'm in Queensland and I'm not coming back.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
Who was that woman?

Speaker 10 (11:13):
I believed that person to be Tanya Robertson.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
You thought it was really weird that this telephone call
had purportedly been made by Bromman. Why did you believe
then that that was really weird?

Speaker 10 (11:28):
Michelle had already said to me. Why would Bromwin ring
the salon knowing that Tuesday was the day that Jody
went to tape. Jody wasn't even at the salon that day,
But how would Broman know that she used to talk
to Jody all the time. Bromwin knew what day she

(11:51):
was able to contact Jody or not.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
You said that Tanya Robertson told you that she wasn't
sure whether or not it was Bromin's voice. Why would
she volunteer that to you.

Speaker 10 (12:06):
To tell you the truth?

Speaker 1 (12:07):
I don't know.

Speaker 10 (12:08):
She just said it was a female voice and didn't
want to confirm that it was Bromwin. Did she know
Bromin's voice? I would believe so. Roman could have rung
there numerous times. It just seems an odd thing for

(12:29):
her to mention. I'm not sure whether or not it
was Bromwin. If the person whose calling says I'm Bromwin,
why would she ring Jodie and not ring an immediate
member of her family to say that she was okay?
That just doesn't make any sense to us, and it

(12:49):
never did at the time, and it still doesn't to
this day.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
But here's the thing, Andy, you've gone in on Tuesday,
May eighteen.

Speaker 4 (12:59):
You've spoken to Tanya.

Speaker 1 (13:01):
She can't confirm whether or not the person who called
was Bromin. You don't hear any more about it then
on May twenty seven, so another nine days later, the
missing person report is made by John and in that
report it stated as a matter of fact that it

(13:21):
was Bromin who made the call.

Speaker 4 (13:23):
Did you walk away.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
From that salon believing that a call had been made
by someone representing herself as Bromwin?

Speaker 10 (13:33):
Yes, correct, Yes, one hundred percent. Told me that a
phone call was made to the salon and it was
a female voice. For words to me were I could
not verify whether it was Bromwin. Tell Jody, I'm in
Queensland and I'm not coming home straight away. I thought

(13:54):
none of that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
Do you know now why you didn't yourself go to
the homicide squad and say, I think something really serious
has gone down here.

Speaker 10 (14:03):
These were just slow culminating facts that made absolutely no sense.

Speaker 1 (14:10):
When you see that missing person report and read it, now,
what do you believe it's trying to do.

Speaker 10 (14:20):
I believe it's trying to falsify a proof of life.
After the Sunday night at the house.

Speaker 1 (14:28):
Glenn Taylor, the detective sergeant who picked up the case
and started a thorough investigation in nineteen ninety eight, asked
Jody Winfield about this purported call from Bromwin to the salon.
These are Jody's words from the police statement Jody made
in nineteen ninety eight, but it's not her voice.

Speaker 14 (14:50):
The following Tuesday, eighteenth of May nineteen ninety three, was
my rostered day off work. About lunchtime, Michelle, my boss,
told me that Bronwin had rung and spoken to Tenurerobertson
at the salon and said to her, can I speak
to Jody. Tanya said she's not here, it's her day off.
She said that Bronwin then said tell her I'm never
coming back and for her to watch over the kids.

(15:12):
She then hung up. I would have thought that Bronwin
would have rung me at home because she knew that
Tuesday was my day off, although she could have rung
and left a message at the salon because we'd been
arguing and maybe she didn't want to speak to me.
I told Dad about the phone call, and he thought
that it was just her blowing off hot air. He
thought that when he went home she would just turn up.

(15:33):
Dad doesn't talk about Bronwyn much. He doesn't bring it
up at all. The only way he'll talk about it
is if I bring it up. He's definite that one
day she'll turn up on the front doorstep and attempt
to take Crystal and Lauren. He's positive that she's still
alive somewhere and will suddenly reappear.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
When Tanya Robertson was questioned by police in nineteen ninety eight,
she had no recollection of receiving a telephone call in
the salon from anyone calling herself Bromwin Winfield, and Tanya
said that she believed she would have remembered such a
call if it had been made. Let's go back to
the words in the missing person report in the Ballina

(16:13):
Police Station dated May twenty seven, nineteen ninety three.

Speaker 12 (16:18):
Up to date, Jonathan has made several inquiries with the
person who interests girlfriend and associated friends, and it appears
that the person of interest has not been heard of
or seen since, except for a brief interlude with the
clairvoyant David.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
This claim of Bromwin catching up with the tarot card
reader after May sixteen is the second assertion by John
that Bromwin was alive. After he left the house and
drove to Sydney that Sunday.

Speaker 12 (16:47):
Night, Jonathan approached the clairvoyant and he said that he
did not keep diaries and vaguely could remember the person
of interest. Up to date, only very few of the
person of interests clothing had been taken from the house.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
The next sentence in the police missing person report indicates
that no withdrawals have been made from Bromwin's account with
the Commonwealth Bank while she has been on her supposed break.
The report, which is based almost entirely on information from John,
concludes with damaging inferences about Bromwyn's stability.

Speaker 12 (17:25):
It appears that the person of interest has come from
a very deranged family and her mother has been treated
for psychiatric problems for the last twenty years.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
There it is Bromwn Joy Winfield was labeled by association
right from the start at Balener Police Station. Nobody else
in Bromwin's life had the slightest indication that Bromwyn was
mentally unwell in some kind of carbon copy of her
mother Barbara.

Speaker 12 (17:54):
Apparently, when the person of interest was eleven years old,
she had a nervous breakdown. However, it is not known
whether she is suffering from any disorder at this stage
and has not been treated for associated problems known to
the husband.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
You've previously heard that Broman's GP doctor Mitchell saw Bromman
at his surgery on Friday, May fourteenth because she had
sprained her left hand, and doctor Mitchell had treated broman
by applying a splint. He did not notice anything unusual
about her manner. The reference from John Winfield to a

(18:32):
purported mental health event two decades earlier, when Bromman was
eleven years old was something I had not read or
heard about before in all the files and interviews for
this podcast investigation. Bromwan's brother Andy Reid, told me there
was no nervous breakdown when Bromin was aged eleven or
any time after, and there are also references to Bromwin's

(18:57):
mental health or your family's mental health. There's a claim
there that Bromwin's also had a mental breakdown or a
nervous breakdown when she's aged eleven.

Speaker 4 (19:07):
What's that about?

Speaker 10 (19:09):
At no time can I ever remember through our childhood
that Bromwin was treated for any form of mental illness, And.

Speaker 4 (19:20):
What about through her adulthood?

Speaker 10 (19:22):
Again the same No, no psychologists, no psychiatrists. I do
not recall Bromwin ever been treated in any form or
mental illness.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
But Bromwin did have some unhappy experiences through her childhood
and teens. Andy tells me that things became particularly complicated
when their mother, Barbara returned to Australia and re entered
their lives.

Speaker 10 (19:52):
That's when we first found out that our stepmother actually
wasn't our real mother.

Speaker 1 (20:00):
Bronwin's stepmother Jenny clashed with Bromwin.

Speaker 10 (20:04):
It was strained at times, but that was only in
her later teen years. We had a perfectly normal childhood,
as old family photos and that can prove of. We
used to be always holidaying down in Sussex and let
I have vivid memories of Mum taking us into We

(20:25):
used to always go into Jays to the Carols.

Speaker 7 (20:28):
By candle Light.

Speaker 10 (20:30):
Mum had a daughter in Melissa, had a son in me,
and therefore I think we received the better treatment in
the latter days.

Speaker 1 (20:42):
And you've made a reference a couple of times to Mum.
But you're talking there about your legal stepmother, aren't you correct?

Speaker 10 (20:53):
Correct, because that's the person.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
That raisings and you believe that she was your mother. Yeah, yeah,
until you were about nine, Andy.

Speaker 10 (21:10):
Oh, I remember, Yeah, I was, would have been about
ten or.

Speaker 1 (21:12):
So you Yeah, I'm sorry, so to remind you this.
Friends of the family and relatives confirmed that Broman was
excluded at times. She went to live with relatives, including
her grandmother Nana Reid, instead of living in the family home.

Speaker 10 (21:30):
It was always in my memory after the fact of
a bit of strine coming into the marriage. Once my
real mom, Barbara was introduced into our lives.

Speaker 1 (21:43):
In the weeks before Broman disappeared, she wrote in those
A four pages about some events in her childhood.

Speaker 15 (21:52):
Jenny couldn't stand me, went to stay with Nana Reid
for a while after Pa Reed died. Nana read and
I were okay for a while, but she had a
full and had to be hospitalized. She went into a
nursing home. I met my real mother in the middle
of all of this, also met Kim, spent holidays in
Tasmania with her, and also spent weekends in town with her.

(22:15):
It went with hotel, left school year ten, wanted to
leave home, hated it.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
Nowhere in the missing person report does it say that
Bromwin was an exceptionally dedicated mother and that it was
completely out of character for her to leave her children.
She had never left her children before. The report does
not say that she had commitments a solicitor's appointment on
Monday May seventeen to talk about her separation from John

(22:47):
and her plans to get the ball rolling on a
property settlement. There was her work at Eden's Takeaway during
the week, the school pickups and drop offs for the children,
Lauren and Crystal. Bromwin had not finished moving her things
back from the rented townhouse in Byron Street to the
home that John had built at Sandstone Crescent when she disappeared.

(23:11):
She wanted to stop paying rent. There was a perfectly
good home to live in. It was empty because John
had taken work in Sydney. It defeated Bromwan's purpose to
leave her things in the rental because it meant she
would have had to keep paying for it. But the
missing person report had none of those details. I've been

(23:32):
talking to one of Bromwan's friends, Bridgeter. They bonded in
high school and for years afterwards. Bridgeta made the wedding
dress for Bromwin's marriage to John Winfield, but nobody was invited.
John wanted a quiet ceremony in Lennox Head. Bridgeta has
sent me photographs of them as young women, including with

(23:53):
Cristel as a small child. I asked Bridgetter whether she
had ever seen anything that made her one day, whether
Bromwin had any mental health issues.

Speaker 2 (24:03):
She was a very good friend of mine. We went
to high school together. After high school, we spent a
lot of time together. I was with her when her
babies were born. I was the person she reached out to,
and she had a lot of trouble at home. My
family put her in her home when she had nowhere
to go, rent free for many months, just to get

(24:25):
her on her feet again, just give her a place
for a while till she could sort out what she
wanted to do and that she wanted a solid family.
This trouble in the household was before John. She needed
to move out of there. The stepmother didn't really like her.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
And do you know why, do you know what that
was about?

Speaker 2 (24:44):
Well, she had another daughter to Bromwin's father, and I
think she really loved that one because that was hers
and Bromwin was from a previous marriage. I think she
just didn't like Bromwin. Bromwin was pretty, he was nice looking.
The father doated on her. I was there for her

(25:05):
first wedding, second wedding. No one was allowed to go
to that because John whisked her away and only had
two elderly people as witnesses, so none of her friends
could be there for that wedding. I was concerned because
while I was with her, she always a happy, go

(25:26):
lucky girl. You know, we used to go out dancing
together and parties and she was a lovely person. And
then when John came into the picture, she seemed to
be a little bit more careful of what she spoke about,
and she just looked a little bit uneasy, not like

(25:46):
the normal happy boman I used to always witness. And
she said to me that she didn't really go out
very much because he used to check how much petrol
she'd used to try and work out where she's been.
I found that very disturbing. She so wanted to have
a family unit, She wanted her children to have father,

(26:09):
She wanted a happy life.

Speaker 9 (26:11):
So I guess that's why she put up with her.

Speaker 2 (26:13):
But I didn't spend a lot of time because he
didn't like her to be around her old friends. I
didn't want to make any trouble. I was reading in
the paper that John was trying to say that she
had a mental issue.

Speaker 16 (26:33):
Now that is.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
By farst really really wrong. I never saw her with
a mental problem. I never seen her act like she
had a mental problem.

Speaker 1 (26:45):
What do you think of the suggestion that romwin wanted
to take a break and then just decided to stay
away from her kids and home and family.

Speaker 17 (26:54):
Never, never, never, never, She loved her kids.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
After July, the Ballana police file for the nineteen ninety
three investigation into the fate of missing mother of two
Bromin Winfield goes eerily quiet for a couple of months.
It seems there was no investigative activity until September two,
nineteen ninety three, when a two page police internal report was.

Speaker 18 (27:44):
Filed, and there's also that terrible one from discoun I'll
show you that.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
This is how it starts. This date spoke to the
cousin of the missing person, Megan Reid. We talked about
it in one of my first meetings with Meghan at
her home in Sydney.

Speaker 5 (28:03):
Meg, I'm just going to ask you to clearly and
slowly read that statement.

Speaker 9 (28:11):
Okay.

Speaker 18 (28:12):
So as New South Wales Police State Intelligence Network Information
report named GJ. Diskan Ranked Detector Sergeant Location Ballaner.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
This is not a signed statement by Megan Reid. No
sign statements were taken by police in nineteen ninety three.
It is a document based on a telephone conversation between
Detective Graham Diskin and a woman who must have given
him a name Meghan Read. But Meghan insists that it
was not her on the telephone to the police officer

(28:46):
in Balliner.

Speaker 18 (28:47):
This date spoke to the cousin of the missing person
Meghan read. Meghan stated that she had twice spoken to
the MP Missing Personal Belief only days before her disappearance,
and only that she was able to recognize her voice,
she would not have believed that, in fact it was Bromwin.

(29:09):
Meghan stated that the missing person was talking a lot
of rubbish but did not seem to be affected by
drugs or alcohol. Statements were made like you will all
pay none of you will know what is happening, and
other statements that meant nothing to Megan. Meghan stated that
she has no fears about John Winfield being involved in

(29:34):
anything untoward so far as his wife's disappearance is concerned.
In the past, she has questioned Browin over her attitude
and lies about John, and bromwin.

Speaker 9 (29:47):
Admitted that she was seeking attention.

Speaker 18 (29:50):
She believes that John is a great father and care
of the two children involved in the marriage, and would
do nothing to upset the children. Meghan also believes that
in the past Bromwan was a user of cannabis and
described her as a flower child, believing that she may
well be living.

Speaker 9 (30:10):
On a commune somewhere. She also had a passion for
money and was on the.

Speaker 18 (30:16):
Lookout for a rich male to care for her if
the opportunity arose. Meighan stated that Broman has always been
upset over the death of her father some years ago
and by the fact that she was luckless in his
estate because he was a bankrupt at the time of
his death and all moneies went to paying outstanding debts. Bromwin,

(30:40):
until just prior to her disappearance, has been supported for
money from Meaghan's father, Bromwan's uncle. However, he has declined
to continue in that vein and Bromwin was somewhat.

Speaker 9 (30:55):
Upset about that.

Speaker 18 (30:57):
Meghan also reiterated the fact act that her mother did
exactly the same thing some years ago, and believes that
one day she will walk back into the family home
as if nothing happened due to her state.

Speaker 9 (31:10):
Of mind at the time of the disappearance.

Speaker 4 (31:14):
Okay, and what do you say about this statement?

Speaker 18 (31:18):
Absolutely bullshit. I never ever would say that. I mean,
my father never gave her a cent for starters, never
did you wouldn't never wouldn't give anyone money. Dad and
John came up with her, told me that she was
at the age of Aquarius commune.

Speaker 9 (31:36):
This is John's words.

Speaker 1 (31:39):
Megan believes that another unknown woman who knew that Detective
Sergeant Graham Diskin was investigating Brohman's disappearance, has.

Speaker 9 (31:49):
Rung up and said that she's me. I really do.

Speaker 18 (31:52):
That's the only way it is, word for word stuff
that John said to me and to my parents. So
that's what he's saying now, it's just so far from true.
I mean, I don't understand this at all. I didn't
even know it existed until recently, and I'm very upset

(32:13):
about it, which I didn't do it now. The coroner
at the coronal inquest tried to subpoena Sergeant Discan, but
unfortunately he went off on medical stress leave or something
and he had medical exemption from being subpoened in court.

Speaker 1 (32:36):
Okay, let's try and step through parts of this statement
just to work out whether that theory that someone misrepresenting
themselves as you.

Speaker 4 (32:47):
Has actually been behind this.

Speaker 18 (32:49):
The thing is about her father being a bankrupt well
that's true, but you know, how would he know that?

Speaker 4 (32:56):
It has to come from an informed member of the family.

Speaker 18 (33:00):
Yes, I agree with you. Well, they're just so far
from the truth. Though Robin was a very glamorous woman,
she would never go to a commune. It's just ridiculous.
As if I say that she had a mensa IQ.
I mean, the girl was as shark at outtack.

Speaker 4 (33:18):
Why do you say she had a mensa IQ.

Speaker 9 (33:20):
Because my mother told me that she had her IQ.

Speaker 5 (33:23):
Taken Maddie, can you go back to that intelligence report.
Please and just tell me the phone number that he lists.

Speaker 19 (33:31):
Okay, Sarah too four four known.

Speaker 1 (33:38):
Maddie Walsh read the rest of the phone number as
it existed in nineteen ninety three.

Speaker 5 (33:44):
It's noted here in handwriting it says Megan cousin.

Speaker 9 (33:49):
I did have that number. Yeah, just we change providers
and moved.

Speaker 4 (33:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (33:54):
So whoever has contacted disc and has given your phone number, Yes,
that's correct, but you are not the informant for that.

Speaker 9 (34:02):
Absolutely not.

Speaker 18 (34:04):
I mean I'd have to have completely gone start raving mad.

Speaker 9 (34:08):
If you spoke to any single person that.

Speaker 18 (34:11):
I know, they would be gobsmacked, because I mean, it's
the opposite to what I've always maintained. I mean I
never even spoke to him. I tried to talk to
Disband and he wouldn't take my calls. And he said
to me that that was because Michelle and Andrew were
the only ones that they were the representative of the

(34:31):
Reed family that he would talk to.

Speaker 5 (34:35):
So do you believe that you spoke to him just
on one or two occasions.

Speaker 9 (34:39):
I don't even know if I ever spoke to him.

Speaker 4 (34:42):
But didn't he tell you that he couldn't talk to
you because.

Speaker 18 (34:45):
Andrew well, somebody told me that. I don't know if
it was actually him. I just rang up asking to
speak to him, right, I don't know who it was
who answered the phone?

Speaker 1 (34:55):
And when was the first time a statement was taken
from you?

Speaker 9 (35:00):
Ninety eight?

Speaker 4 (35:01):
All right, so five years after that intelligence.

Speaker 18 (35:04):
Report nineteen ninety eight is the first time Eddie statements
for dagon.

Speaker 1 (35:11):
Whoever it was on the telephone two detective disc and
she influenced investigations by police in nineteen ninety three, A
purported family member declaring that John would not have done
anything wrong and that Bromman was strangely emulating the disappearing
act of her own mother, Barbara, aligned neatly with the

(35:33):
path the police were already on. It's impossible to discover
now the true origin of the information noted in the
internal police document. And it's also complicated because some family
members have fallen out with each other. Madison Walsh is
aware of these difficulties and she helps me navigate through them.

(35:56):
In your extended family, there are some well intentioned people.

Speaker 19 (36:02):
Yeah, one hundred percent, and it's really frustrating because sometimes
it gets the better of them and it's hard to
mellow it out. It's a lot of strong opinions, a
lot of confident people, and it's it's hard.

Speaker 4 (36:17):
It's really hard.

Speaker 9 (36:18):
So I'm trying to take a.

Speaker 19 (36:20):
Kind of unbiased step back and just kind of observe
what's in front of me.

Speaker 1 (36:29):
Megan Reid hasn't seen eye to eye with her cousin
Andy Reid's wife Michelle for a long time.

Speaker 9 (36:37):
We used to see them.

Speaker 18 (36:38):
We'd have the Reed family Christmas on Boxing Day every
year she married him.

Speaker 11 (36:43):
That was it.

Speaker 18 (36:46):
Becau Xandra and I had not been on speaking terms
for years because of his wife's getting interfering and doing
the police not to talk to me and all the
rest of it. But now he and I, I'm really good.

Speaker 1 (37:00):
Megan and Kim Marshall, Bromwin's half sister, haven't known each
other long. Kim came to stay at Meghan's place.

Speaker 18 (37:08):
Kim is off on this clairvoyant route. She went on
and on about it, But now we're getting along like a.

Speaker 9 (37:16):
House on fire.

Speaker 1 (37:18):
Andy Reid is candid about ups and downs. Andy also
points out important differences between his mother, Barbara's mental health
and her absence from his life, and his sister Bromwin's
nineteen ninety three disappearance, Barbara went overseas with her mother,
leaving Andy and Bromwin with their father for almost a decade, so.

Speaker 20 (37:41):
It was never as if Barbara ever disappeared and no
one knew where she was. That's when she went to Europe,
went to London and started in London and traveled around
through while that, yeah, and then came back and then
obviously settled in Hobart.

Speaker 5 (37:58):
I take your point that the context is very different.
Why then, would people talking to the police in nineteen
ninety three, when Brohman disappears even raise your mother's leaving.
Why was it even raised and became part of police

(38:21):
evidence if it was irrelevant.

Speaker 7 (38:24):
John had all the first contact with police.

Speaker 20 (38:27):
John had all direction of how the case was handled
when information went to the police.

Speaker 7 (38:32):
Originally I didn't have any jurisdiction.

Speaker 20 (38:36):
John had jurisdiction over to the case, which is hence
Wright it took me so long to get control and
then the case did properly reviewed and investigated correctly without.

Speaker 7 (38:48):
All the stumbling blocks constantly being put in front of it.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
So your sense of it is that Discan hears from
the husband who should have been a person of interest
that his wife's mother did a disappearing act, and that
puts the idea into Discan's mind. And then he follows
up with you and Michelle and Megan and others asking

(39:12):
questions about your mum's disappearance.

Speaker 4 (39:15):
Is that how you see it?

Speaker 7 (39:17):
That's the way I answer it.

Speaker 20 (39:19):
Yes, yes, it was never ever Michelle's belief the problem
would walk away from those two girls.

Speaker 5 (39:28):
And Megan, I mean, she wouldn't have done anything deliberately detrimental.

Speaker 4 (39:34):
She probably thought she was helping. Yeah, correct.

Speaker 20 (39:38):
I actually instructed the police not to talk to her anymore.
Megan's always wanted to know who that person was. What
did the police stop talking.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
To And he told me that he made this decision
after he and Michelle were given some feedback by the
detective Sergeant Graham Diskin in nineteen ninety three.

Speaker 20 (39:59):
And he said to me, every time I asked this
fellow a question, he has an answer.

Speaker 7 (40:04):
It's as if he's prepared.

Speaker 4 (40:06):
Yeah, we thought it's.

Speaker 7 (40:08):
Got to be a way.

Speaker 20 (40:08):
How does he know or how is he so prepared
to answer things all the time, which led to me
to make some phone calls and start chasing up what
was going on. And then that's when I found out
that John had been in constant contact with Megan, so.

Speaker 7 (40:26):
I put two and two together and thought, well.

Speaker 20 (40:28):
This guy's clever enough to be picking her brain for
whatever the family's thinking, which Megan sort of now to
this day describes as, Oh, yes, but you've got to
keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer type.

Speaker 1 (40:42):
So here's Megan again.

Speaker 18 (40:46):
I'm the only one that remained in contact with him
after Roman's disappearance, and my reasoning being was that it
keeps your enemies closer than your fringe kind of thing
to find out, so I could find out what was
going on, and I continue to be in contact with
him virtually daily up until October ninety four. I had

(41:07):
an argument with Andrew just recently about this whole thing.
Was Michelle in particular doesn't like us, and she has
nothing to do with us, and she told the police
not to have.

Speaker 7 (41:16):
Anything to do with myself.

Speaker 18 (41:18):
Andrew was the point of contact for the police, and
they never listened to me. And Andrew apparently told them
that I have ADHD it was a mental case not
to listen to me, which is absolutely rubbish because I
am quite the opposite. I'm very intelligent, I know what
I'm saying. I am hyperactive and I haven't had my

(41:39):
medication yet, so probably joining a million miles an. Now,
the thing is, I have a photographic.

Speaker 16 (41:44):
Memory, of a brilliant memory.

Speaker 18 (41:46):
I can remember things like yesterday.

Speaker 20 (41:49):
She thought that she was doing the right thing, but
in the end I perceived that she was just being
bled for every bit of information or any thought that
the family was thinking. And that gave him a means
and a way to be able to explain things away constantly.
I think that was quite detrimental to the early investigation.

Speaker 1 (42:09):
Tim Marshall spent a lot of time with her mother,
Barbara kim Well, I wanted to talk to you about Barbara,
your mother's mental health issues. Are you okay talking to
me about that?

Speaker 21 (42:23):
It all starts with mum being a nurse. She was
a very talented nurse. Mum very much supported Philip becoming
a teacher and heading towards becoming a principal, and so
she paid for a lot of the setup costs for
their marriage and their home life, and she naturally then

(42:47):
went on to have Bromwin. The culture back in those
days was that men naturally went to the pub or
they had a few drinks after work.

Speaker 16 (42:57):
As Bromwin moved.

Speaker 21 (43:00):
From being a baby to a toddler, Philip was not
at home as much, and then she became pregnant with Andrew.

Speaker 16 (43:08):
Philip used to be absent from.

Speaker 21 (43:10):
The home a lot, and so Mum would often catch
him coming home late at night watering the levices in
the garden and she'd have to say come inside, Philip,
and then other nights she'd have to go and getting
down from the pub. So Mum was feeling astraining her marriage.
Andrew was then birthed, and then Mum felt she had

(43:31):
developed postnatal depression after having Andrew. Whether she was also
feeling depressed and unsupported being the mother of two small children,
Mum had multiple crisis situations going on in her life.
The birth of her second child, a husband that was

(43:53):
estranging himself from the marriage, and then her father died,
and later on in life it's been explained to her
that because she had so many competing crisis is going on,
that's when her mental health became compromised and she probably
had what they described as a breakdown. But Philip, in

(44:14):
consultation with his parents, it had been expressed that no,
you must have your wife back with you. You must
get your family house in order, and so Philip actually
said no, you can only have a short time away,
and Mum disagreed with that. He actually entered the house

(44:34):
and he collected Andrew from the crib left the property
with Andrew against Mum's permission. He already had Bromwin staying
with him. And the words that have always remained in
my head from the stories that were explained was that
the lawyer advised that Mum would most likely be judged

(44:57):
as an unfit mother due to the opinion ends of
the Reed family, and that she perhaps should actually not
worry about contesting custody because it would be a horrible
case to have to go and attend court to go
through and it might be better if she just looks
after her mother and perhaps go is suggested on an

(45:18):
overseas traveling trip for a period of time to recover
and recuperate and then return to Australia and then look
at maybe perhaps making connections with her children and building
a new life. So much pressure in a woman's life,
and she thought she was making a sound decision based

(45:41):
on the advice that she had been given, and the
you'd probably say the lack of support.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
And the diagnosis in nineen seventy one was that your
mother had postnatal depression and something else.

Speaker 21 (45:57):
And the occurrences of schizophren more specifically categorized as schizoaffective disorder.
I can cite a statement from her long life psychiatrist,
mum had actually burnt out.

Speaker 16 (46:19):
Headley.

Speaker 15 (46:20):
Ye.

Speaker 16 (46:20):
I don't know if you heard.

Speaker 21 (46:22):
We paused for a minute because someone's caught there a blender.

Speaker 16 (46:26):
Oh dear, it's not major, but I will have to
go and deal with that.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
Yes, let's talk later. By In nineteen ninety three, in
her writings in the A four Notepad, Romwin reflected on
falling in love with John in the mid nineteen eighties,
when they lived in Crinulla in the Shire and she
was raising Crystal on her own. Bromwin had divorced her husband,

(46:53):
Gary Beard, and Roman was no longer in a relationship
with Crystal's father, Mark Davis. John Winfield had divorced two
wives and he had one daughter, Jody. There's a sentence
in Bromman's notepad which perhaps speaks volumes when John came
on the scene, Bromwin wrote, he was a good listener

(47:14):
and they clicked.

Speaker 15 (47:16):
He was or so it seemed honest, trustworthy, and didn't
mind the fact that I had Chrystal, and he was
wonderful to both of us. I was in love with
him and would have done anything for him. We talked
and I felt I had made a friend, although for
some reason I never really trusted him, so never felt
able to disclose my full family history to him.

Speaker 1 (47:37):
When I telephoned Kim Marshall back, she sounded much happier.

Speaker 7 (47:42):
Kim, Hi, I can hear the bird.

Speaker 5 (47:45):
Oh, okay, that's good. Firstuall has your child with the
blended finger.

Speaker 21 (47:51):
It wasn't not a major drama, just a little bit
of blood.

Speaker 7 (47:53):
But it hurts.

Speaker 4 (47:55):
Thank you, there's a relation.

Speaker 16 (47:58):
I did my job.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
We picked up where we had left off. Kim was
loyally determined to defend her mother, Barbara, the woman broman
was said to have imitated with a disappearance. In an
earlier episode, you heard Bromwin's uncle John and auntie Leah
describing their recollections of Barbara. Kim has also talked to

(48:21):
John and Leah about Kim and Bromman's mother and the
major challenges that she faced in the nineteen sixties. Things
were very different back then.

Speaker 21 (48:32):
When I spoke to John and Leah, they had a
full belief that mum abandoned Andrew and Bromwin, and they
said that to me when I was there in Sydney
last year. I wore that because I actually was very
familiar with that labeling. That is definitely not what my

(48:54):
mother did, because my mother did try to go for custody.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
Totally understand this. This is why I'm talking to you
and Andy. In an earlier telephone conversation with Kim, she
talked about Bromwin having written the letters in which she
described her concerns about her safety.

Speaker 21 (49:15):
Because she wrote some pretty intensive information in those letters
to my mum.

Speaker 1 (49:21):
What a shame that you don't have copies of them.

Speaker 16 (49:24):
Bromwin was scared for her life.

Speaker 21 (49:26):
She wrote that in a sentence in the letter in
one of the letters, that's the distinct memory. But see
that can only be now said as he say.

Speaker 5 (49:35):
The one thing that I find a little confusing. If
Roman had written that to your mom, you and your
mom would have been suspicious from the day that Broman disappeared.
One thing that I'm finding a bit contradictory is that

(49:55):
people like Megan, for example, say that they were vicious
immediately right in the police notes from ninety three and
in the statements of some of these people and in
their actions in having ongoing contact with John, It's not
really obvious that they would have been suspecting John of

(50:20):
foul play at that time. Otherwise why would they have
maintained the connection to him and stayed with him. I'm
just trying to work out whether people now say I
was suspicious from the beginning, but were they really suspicious
from the beginning and saying to the police this guy
we suspect has murdered Bronwin.

Speaker 16 (50:44):
That's very relevant.

Speaker 21 (50:46):
We were telling the police that we were frightened and
suspicious that something was going on, and there was a
roadblock at every point because somehow it was always dismissed
and kept as that Bromwin had gone away, the narrative
of Bromwin being crazy like her mother, John's version of that,

(51:10):
and that ran from the beginning, and it just kept
a hole on everything. So we were always saying, but
you're not writing down what we're actually thinking, or saying
a phone call that I made that is totally out
of context and it's incorrect so.

Speaker 5 (51:27):
Kim back in ninety three. The detective disco according to
one of his memo is one of his police intelligence notes,
he spoke to your mom Broman's mom in June of
ninety ninety three, and according to this note, Barbara says

(51:48):
to him, she's probably just run off.

Speaker 4 (51:50):
I'm not worried about her. She'll come back, She'll just
turn up.

Speaker 16 (51:54):
Yeah, yeah, And I've read those.

Speaker 5 (51:57):
Do you think that could have been your mom's state
of mind at that time?

Speaker 7 (52:02):
Now?

Speaker 21 (52:02):
I believe that that's Andrew and Michelle giving Mum the
only lead for Mum to actually go on. And my
mum was a very what would you say, non interfering
woman and wanted to do anything to appease Andrew. And
if Andrew said we won't panic at this time, or

(52:25):
we won't do this, or we won't do that, Mum
followed that lead because that was the only link that
mum had. Mum was also made aware that her diagnosis
and myself being the daughter, were going to be always
looked upon as unreliable people. We were told that early on,

(52:47):
and we were to be kept out of everything.

Speaker 5 (52:50):
Do you believe that your mother probably did say that
in June nineteen ninety three.

Speaker 21 (52:57):
Yep, correct, yep. Because we were following Andrew's lead. I
think Andrew was getting misled, and because he had pushed
John so hard to go to the police. I think
everything was really fragile. He was bewildered, what will I do?
What part will I take? Will I keep John onside?

(53:20):
Everyone was trying to be on side with John to
get as much information. So, as Megan always likes to say,
keep your enemies close, play the game.

Speaker 5 (53:32):
It's obvious that in the early stages the police are
not deeply suspicious. They're coming to a view that Bromwin.

Speaker 1 (53:42):
Has left voluntarily.

Speaker 5 (53:44):
Yes, and as a missing person, not a murder victim.

Speaker 16 (53:48):
Correct.

Speaker 4 (53:48):
Who was promoting with you?

Speaker 16 (53:51):
Bambi did promote it.

Speaker 21 (53:54):
They came in line with Timby and Diskan and kept
running with it. I believe because none of us had
had any experience, as is quite common with the police
or anything like this, we were all in what you
call a fawning mode, you know how you can flight,
fight or faun.

Speaker 16 (54:15):
I believe everybody was fawning.

Speaker 21 (54:19):
So we didn't know how hard to push. We didn't
know how to offend the police. We didn't know how
to go against.

Speaker 4 (54:29):
John, nobody in the family.

Speaker 5 (54:32):
Then, from what you're saying, felt comfortable getting on the
front foot and saying it looks like foul play. Do
your jobs treat this as a murder investigation, not missing person?

Speaker 1 (54:45):
Kim raised with me the internal police report which attributes
to Megan Reid some disparaging information. You heard about it
earlier in the episode when Megan denied being the informant.

Speaker 21 (55:00):
Robin's off her head, Roman's crazy like her mother, and
it sets the tone again.

Speaker 5 (55:05):
Do you believe that somebody falsely misrepresenting herself as Megan.

Speaker 16 (55:12):
My word correct.

Speaker 21 (55:14):
I don't think Megan's mind is that confusing, and she
would never ever say that.

Speaker 1 (55:21):
You heard that Megan was in regular telephone contact with
John for months following Broman's disappearance in May nineteen ninety three.
Megan has strong views about attempts to link what happened
then and the circumstances surrounding what had happened to Broman's mother, Barbara.
When Broman was just a two year old.

Speaker 18 (55:42):
I knew that Bromin wasn't anything like her mom. Okay,
when Rowin actually did meet Barbara, she went down to
Tasmania and moved in with him for a little while.

Speaker 9 (55:52):
Very short while, she ring.

Speaker 18 (55:53):
Me up and she said, mum's talking to the pop plant.

Speaker 9 (55:56):
She thinks it's dad. She said, I'm not kidding. Barbara disappearance, Yes,
John used that. He told all of us just like
a mother.

Speaker 18 (56:06):
He tried to convince my ex husband and I for
the get go that she'd lost some mind, but he
thought everyone would buy that.

Speaker 5 (56:16):
Do you think that it was a persuasive story at
the time, No, not.

Speaker 9 (56:22):
To me, it wasn't.

Speaker 18 (56:23):
And also when he went back to Lenox, he went
in her flat and he told me he found empty
bottles of alcohol and empty packets of allium hidden behind
a cupboard, which I find it very hard to believe.
But also, how the hell did you get into that
apartment without her key? His words to me were that
she was only gone for a few days. He was

(56:44):
not going to report her as a missing person until
Andrew said he would, otherwise I.

Speaker 9 (56:50):
Would ring them up to the police.

Speaker 18 (56:52):
And they said that there's nothing illegal about being a
missing person.

Speaker 9 (56:57):
That's what they said. That's what they told her. And
we pushed and pushed. I know Andrew did too. I
knew something was wrong.

Speaker 1 (57:28):
I can see from the police brief of evidence produced
by the then detective Sergeant Glenn Taylor that dozens of
statements were obtained by him and fellow detective Wayne Temby.
But these statements are all dated from the second half
of nineteen ninety eight, a full five years after Broman disappeared.

(57:48):
It is remarkable that when a mother of two vanishers,
no statements are taken from anyone. When Detective's Graham Discott
and he's then junior understudy Wayne Temby get the missing
person and report from John Winfield in late May nineteen
ninety three, some of the nineteen ninety eight statements are illuminating.

(58:09):
In episode four, you heard a voice actor read extracts
from the statements by John's brother Peter Winfield and his
wife Louise. They were recalling John's decision to fly back
to Ballina on a Sunday evening, May sixteenth, nineteen ninety three,
because John had become aware that Bromwin and the girls
were back in the house. Now you are going to

(58:32):
hear what Peter and Louise Winfield were called from the
events soon after that visit, when John was the last
person to see Bromwin.

Speaker 22 (58:42):
I've tried to remember, but I just don't recall what
John said about coming to Sydney with the children. He
must have offered some explanation of why Bronwin wasn't with him,
but what that was I don't know.

Speaker 23 (58:54):
I became aware that John did go to Lennox Head.
My memory of the following events are very vague, but
I recalled John telling us that he and Bronwyn had
a fight and that Bronwyn had walked out.

Speaker 22 (59:06):
The next thing I recall was John going back to
Lennox Head after he rang to say that he had
gone to police to report Bromwyn missing. I recall during
a later telephone conversation, John mentioned that he thought Bronwyn
had been back to the house after he had reported
her missing. I don't recall the reasons why he came
to that belief. The only other thing that I remember

(59:28):
around that time was when I spoke to John on
the telephone and he mentioned that the police were investigating
Bromwin's disappearance, and there was mention of a clairvoyant. I'm
not sure when this phone call was, but it was
within the early time after Bronwyn had gone missing. Over
the last five years, I have had no contact with
Bromwyn and have not received any information about her.

Speaker 23 (59:51):
In the June July school holidays in nineteen ninety three,
John and the children had returned to Sydney and stayed
at our house for a couple of weeks. John informed
us that he had not seen Bromwin and that she
had not returned to Lennox Head. We immediately started to
worry about Bromwin's well being and when any she would return.
While John was working, I minded Cristel and Lauren for him.

(01:00:12):
I noticed that Kristal was fairly unaffected by her mother's disappearance,
although I knew she was feeling pain. Lauren was showing
signs that she was affected by what had happened.

Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
Glenn Webster's name will be familiar. You heard a voice
actor for Glenn in episode four describing how John had
been helping build a house for Glenn and his wife
in the Shire in Sydney until John left without warning
to fly to Ballaner on Sunday, May sixteenth. That's what
Glenn put in his nineteen ninety eight statement. Now here's

(01:00:46):
a little more from that same statement.

Speaker 24 (01:00:50):
I don't recall John being any different when he came
back with the girls. It's just too long to remember now.
I found out through a made of mine named David Baxter,
who lives near Ballina, that John his wife Bronwin, had
gone missing. I don't recall John Winfield ever mentioning that
his wife had gone missing. Since nineteen ninety three, I
have been in contact with John Winfield about every three

(01:01:11):
to six months. I don't recollect John ever mentioning anything
about Bronwyn to me on the telephone. Since ninety ninety three,
John has done some other work for me in Sydney. Again,
there was no mention of Bronwyn, but he did tell
me that Crystal was staying with some friends in the
Ballina area.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
Ian Gluis, otherwise known as Gruffy the Concrete spoke in
an earlier episode. You heard Scruffy recalling his observations of John,
and Ian shared his concerns for Bromwin after she had
disclosed her plans to move back into the house at
Sandstone Crescent. Here's Scruffy again.

Speaker 25 (01:01:49):
The scuttle butt was going around town and you've seen
bronman name Evan Sena. You could knock me down with
a feather when he appeared at the back door.

Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
Scruffy said that after John had returned to Lena Head
and the two girls, Crystal and Lauren, were back in
their local school, John dropped around to Scruffy's house. John
was returning some building equipment which he had borrowed from Scruffy.

Speaker 25 (01:02:13):
He's gone, I've just brought your year back. What do
I owe you for it? I said, I'd just like
to find out about Roman. And he said, I know
what everyone's saying about me. And he said, the first
person that says it publicly, I'm going to sue for defamation.
I said, well, you're going to have to consume me,

(01:02:34):
because fucking I know you're responsible for a death. I said,
all I want to know is where you're buried her.
That's what I said to him, standing on the step
looking at him. Jee was standing there in gobsmack.

Speaker 4 (01:02:48):
Did he see you? For difference?

Speaker 25 (01:02:50):
Last time we had a civil word, everyone was sort
of going, well, where Roman.

Speaker 5 (01:02:55):
Go when you made that comment to John or where's
her body? Yeah, you had to be pretty confident about
what had happened to her. Right, Why do you think
you didn't go to the police yourself.

Speaker 25 (01:03:11):
Because basically, I know what he say right when I
faking heard that he'd hadn't started the car when he
took the kids away. He'd glided down the hill past
marriage place, and then started when it got down around
the bottom. This is the story that was going around
town that he'd said that some car pulled up out

(01:03:35):
the front. She's gone out and gone into the car,
leaving her If I caing makeup bag at home or wherever,
and then he got the kids into the car, she
wouldn't answer the door unless she had makeup on, and
she wouldn't go down the street unless she had the
cosmetic bag with her, because she had to make up
bag from hell had everything.

Speaker 4 (01:03:57):
Why was it so obvious to you?

Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
Is it not obvious to the local police.

Speaker 4 (01:04:01):
Well, she wouldn't leave the kids.

Speaker 25 (01:04:03):
Ever, she would die before she left the kids.

Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
Scruffy recalled another occasion when John and Bromman were still
living together some months before her disappearance. It alerted him
to John's attitude about men around John's wife. Scruffy had
driven to the house in Sandstone Crescent to pick John
up on their way to a building site one early morning.

Speaker 25 (01:04:30):
I knocked on the door to get him and she
opened the door about this far and I was quite
friendly with her, and she was quite friendly with my missus.
She said someone else has picked him up.

Speaker 1 (01:04:46):
When Scruffy arrived at the job site, he mentioned his
wasted trip to John.

Speaker 25 (01:04:52):
I was annoyed because I've had to drive up to
his place to pick him up, to say him to Byron.
I said, yeah, Broumman told me that you've been picked
up or whoever. And he said what was she wearing?
And I said, could have been a Hitsien bag for
all I saw of her. I only saw this much
of her face through the crack in the door. And
that's not the sort of question you'd ask someone when

(01:05:13):
you just said you winty house to pick up. And
Roman told me that even someone else had picked you up.
Immediately go what was she wearing? What was she supposed
to be fucking wearing? So from you go, well, that's
a strange fucking you know where you're coming from.

Speaker 5 (01:05:31):
So what did you take from that that he was
suspicious you were staring at her, or that she was
seeing someone else.

Speaker 25 (01:05:36):
No, no, it was the fact that I might have
seen her with a ninety on.

Speaker 1 (01:05:44):
I asked Scruffy about the notoriety of Bromwin's disappearance in
nineteen ninety three, and.

Speaker 25 (01:05:50):
Now everyone that was here and around the place that
they all know about it and their disappearance.

Speaker 4 (01:05:58):
Robin, there was anybody who was.

Speaker 25 (01:06:02):
Not hibernating somewhere there weren't got out that the whole
town knew about it. And then we heard stories that
Rommin's mother was also We heard stories stating that Roman
had issues as far as the mental issues and stuff
which could come filtered down from John. Then John was
accusing her of having an affair.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
Although Scruffy has scarcely seen John since nineteen ninety three,
he knows where John has lived since the house which
Bromwin part owned was sold by John in nineteen ninety nine.

Speaker 5 (01:06:36):
I wonder how he was able to liquidate Romman's equity.
Let's say hypothetically she started new life. Yeah, that's his story, right.

Speaker 25 (01:06:47):
Oh you mean after the disappearance, she's gone to start
a new life.

Speaker 5 (01:06:51):
You and the cops the kind have disagreed that. So
I'm not expressing a view, right, but I'm just saying,
let's just.

Speaker 1 (01:06:56):
Go with that for the time.

Speaker 5 (01:06:59):
Then she still has equity or had equity and.

Speaker 25 (01:07:04):
How did he manage to sell that Well, depends on
whose names.

Speaker 4 (01:07:08):
It was in.

Speaker 5 (01:07:09):
It wouldn't even matter whose name was it. She had
rights as the partner in that house.

Speaker 4 (01:07:14):
Well, that's one avenue to track down, now, how he
pulled that? Not a bad alert.

Speaker 25 (01:07:20):
See, I'm fairly intelligent, and so I put everything in
my wife's name from before they were even bought or built,
so there is no dispute on the settlement. I just
choose what pairs of broadshorts I need and then I'm off.

Speaker 4 (01:07:37):
He has avoided publicity.

Speaker 25 (01:07:39):
Oh well, you can't blame him. He's living with a
sword of damicles. I'm sure he'd be interested enough to
hear it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:48):
In a previous episode, you heard some evidence from a
nineteen ninety eight police statement by Bromwin's townhouse neighbor, Alan Fisher.
Here is more of what Alan recalled the events. Shortly
after May sixteen, nineteen ninety three, about a.

Speaker 26 (01:08:05):
Week after Bromwin went missing, I came home and noticed
a ladder leaning up onto the roof of the flat
that Bromham used to live at. I went over to
the landlady Shirley Taylor and told her about the ladder.
Shirley came running over with her son and I saw
there was two more people in the unit. It turned
out that these people were friends of Bromwin who had
got into Bromin's unit to make sure she wasn't there.

(01:08:26):
They weren't there to steal anything. It was some time
later I was told by the landlady, Shirley Taylor, that
Bromwin's husband had been at the unit trying to get
the rest of Brown's belongings. Shirley told me that the
husband had said there were things missing and that he
thought that Bromwin must have come back to the unit
and taken them. As I mentioned earlier, Bromin was very
close to her children, and I find it strange that

(01:08:49):
Bromwin would leave and not have any further contact with
her children. I remember that Bromwin would not even go
down to the local garage unless she had someone to
watch the kids while she was gone.

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
Here's how the owner of the townhouses, Shirley Taylor, described it,
and you heard her in an earlier episode.

Speaker 3 (01:09:08):
About two weeks later, John came to my place and
wanted to take the things that broman had left behind.
I had also spoken to the police about her disappearance,
and they told me to keep Bromin's belongings in case
she returned. John came around a couple of times a
week and always requested Brohman's property, but I kept refusing him.
After a period of about six weeks, I returned Bromin's

(01:09:31):
belongings to John and he took them home. At a
later time, I was cleaning the townhouse and I located
a cane jewelry box on top of a wardrobe. Inside
the jewelry box was a brown ring case which contained
a gold chain with a tourist medallion, a further gold chain,
a heart shaped pennant with a diamond in the center,

(01:09:52):
one nine carried gold wedding band, one gold engagement ring
with eight diamonds surrounding a larger diamond in the center,
and a gold pendant containing an opal and surrounded by
fourteen diamonds. Also contained in the jewelry box was a
thick chained gold bracelet, a pink heart shaped soap, and

(01:10:13):
a red and white dice. I was not aware whether
these items belonged to broman so I put them in
a cupboard in my house and they've been there ever since.
I did not know what to do with them, and
eventually forgot about them. I haven't seen Bromin since May fourteen,
nineteen ninety three, when she came and told me that
she was returning to her house. I do recall that

(01:10:36):
she was extremely happy about moving back into the house.
I recall seeing something in the Northern Star newspaper about
her disappearance, and I can say that I find it
extremely hard to believe that Bromin would leave the children
behind if she were to go anywhere now.

Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
He is more from Peter Shanahan's police statement. Peter was
one of the owners with his then wife Robin, of
d takeaway, where Bromwyn had a part time job.

Speaker 27 (01:11:03):
I recall that I spoke to a detective in nineteen
ninety three and told him about Bromin not turning up
for work on the Tuesday. Bromwin needed the money from
the casual work and would most definitely rang me to
tell me she couldn't come in. Bronwin never turned up
for any future work, and I found out later that
she had disappeared. I have observed Bronwyn with her two girls,

(01:11:26):
Crystal and Lauren, and I would describe Bronwyn as a
very good mother. For her to leave her girls and
not make contact is not the Bronwin that I knew.
In my opinion, there is no way that Bronwin would
have left her girls. Over the last few years, I
have often wondered what happened to Bronwyn, and.

Speaker 1 (01:11:45):
There's more evidence from the nineteen ninety eight police statement
of Maria Lewis, Scruffy's wife.

Speaker 28 (01:11:53):
Later, I found out that Bronwyn had supposedly gone away
for a holiday for two weeks and left the children
with John.

Speaker 4 (01:11:59):
I heard heard this.

Speaker 28 (01:12:00):
I found it unbelievable, considering everything I'd heard from Bronwyn
whilst she was living in the flat. A couple of
weeks after Bronwyn had supposedly gone on holidays, John came
over to our house and we talked. He told us
that he and Bronwyn had had a long discussion and
that the stress with the kids had taken its toll
with her and she had to get away. During this conversation,

(01:12:21):
he said, I've already lost two houses to two other women,
and I'll do whatever it takes to see that it
doesn't happen again. This is not the exact statement that
John made, but it is to the best of my recollection.
He also made comment about rumors which were circling Lennox's
head about him having buried her, and stated that if
he heard it again, he would sue whoever said it.

(01:12:43):
I would describe Bronwyn as a very caring mother and
her children's interests always came first. I do not believe
that she would just get up and leave her children,
particularly with no further contact. I spent a lot of
time with her just prior to her disappearance, and I
formed the opinion that she would do anything to stop
John getting custody of the children. And I find it
extremely hard to believe that she would go on a holiday,

(01:13:05):
not come back and leave the children with John as
he has purported. I'm very definite about this.

Speaker 1 (01:13:11):
Jane Johnston, the wife of John's cousin Richard, who's better
known as Andrew, had more to say in her statement
to police in nineteen ninety eight too, and as with
Alan Fisher, Shirley Taylor, Peter Shanahand and Maria Glewis, these
are the words from the police statement. They're being voiced
by an actor.

Speaker 29 (01:13:33):
I didn't hear anything whilst I was overseas other than
when Andrew met me, he told me that he had
received a strange phone call from Bronwyn. Shortly after returning
home from overseas, Andrew and I went on a picnic
at Stanwell Park with Peter and Louise Winfield. Peter is
John's brother. While we were on the picnic, Peter told
us that Bronwyn had disappeared about a month prior. We

(01:13:55):
didn't have much contact with John after that, and I
didn't discuss her disappearance with him because he obviously didn't
want to.

Speaker 1 (01:14:03):
One day in nineteen ninety four, while shopping in the Shire,
Jane saw a woman in profile about thirty meters away.
She thought the woman looked like Bromwin. Jane yelled Bromwin's
name loudly, but there was no response. Jane said she
ran after the shopper but lost her in the crowd.

(01:14:37):
Bronwyn is written and investigated by me Headley Thomas as
a podcast production for The Australian. If anyone has information
which may help solve this cold case, please contact me
confidentially by emailing Bronwyn at the Australian dot com dot au.

(01:14:57):
You can read more about this case and see a
range of photographs and other artwork at the website Bromwyn
Podcast dot Com. Our subscribers and registered users here episodes first.
The production and editorial team for Bromwin includes Claire Harvey,
Kristin Amiet, Joshua Burton, Bridget Bryan Bianca, far Marcus, Katie Burns,

(01:15:22):
Liam Mendez, Sean Callen, Matthew Condon and David Murray. Audio
production for this podcast series is by Wasabi Audio and
original theme music by Slade Gibson. We have been assisted
by Madison Walsh, a relation of Bromwin Winfield. We can
only do this kind of journalism with the support of

(01:15:43):
our subscribers and our major sponsors like Harvey Norman. For
all of our exclusive stories, videos, maps, timelines and documents
about this podcast and other podcasts including The Teacher's Pet,
The Teachers Trial, The Teacher's Accuser, Shandy Story, Shandy's Legacy
and The Night Driver, go to the Australian dot com

(01:16:06):
dot AU and subscribe