I Saw What You Did - Rob Zombie With An Ombre

This week, Danielle and Millie discuss FISH TANK (2009) and OUT OF THE BLUE (1980), DJing at a nursing home, a spooky musician FMK, and dreadlock maintenance.

To see a full ISWYD movie list, check out our Letterboxd here:

https://letterboxd.com/isawwhatyoudid/films/diary/

 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey guys, just a reminder that we are doing our
first ever live show at the Tara Theater in Atlanta, Georgia,
on November seventh. Ticket information is available at all of
our social media sites. We are at I Saw Pod
on Instagram, Blue Sky, Twitter and Facebook. Be there, don't
be square, be round and soft and at our show.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of I Saw What
You Did. My name is Millie to Jericho, I'm Daniel Henderson,
and we have us wukiest film podcast you've ever heard
in all of your days and nights.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
I even changed my voice for this episode to be lower. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Are you feeling okay?

Speaker 1 (00:48):
No, I'm on the tail end of an intense bronchial event.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Ooh it's not COVID. It's just a bronchial event.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
I just had bronchitis. I made it sound as dramatic
as possible, but I just have bronchitis. Oh my god.
So I'm like, but this lingering. It's like the cough
has been lingering, and I don't get sick anymore. Like
I usually don't get colds or anything. So if I
do get something, it usually like hangs out for a
while and then I'm not sick for like seven years.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Yeah, you think a change of the season influence.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
I think it's change of seasons. I think it's like
I just think it's it's got I got a cold.
I was hanging out with my grandma, and when the
seasons change at a nursing home, everybody gets sick.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
This nursing home. Do they do anything for Halloween or anything?
Is there?

Speaker 3 (01:34):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:34):
Yeah? Yeah, Oh they go fucking balls out.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
Ooh what like how it's costumes?

Speaker 1 (01:42):
They have, like a DJ come in, they have a
little like the local boy and Girl scouts come by
and do a little costume parade for the for all
the people, the residents. Then they hand out candy and
it's just it's very very funny and very cute. But yeah,
they go and some people real ham like my grandma.
She wanted to be Freddy Krueger last year, and I

(02:05):
was like, I feel like that mask is too scary,
Like you have people here who are on oxygen and
having heart issues on a regular day. Let's not have
you roll around the corner and a fucking Freddy Krueger
mask and genuinely kill people. Why not? So she so
I got her a compromise mask, which is just like
kind of a spooky skeleton mask.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
Oh gosh, that's sweet. Yeah, you don't want to be
causing any you know, cardiac events with the costumes at
that place.

Speaker 1 (02:36):
Man, not needed on my conscience.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
I uh, I've never DJed a nursing home. Now I
kind of want to.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
Not only how do you recommend it? I will set
it up for you. I think you would have a
fucking bless.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
I dj auh like an after school It was like
for I guess elementary maybe middle school kids. It was
kind of like there, uh, after school high achiever hang place.
I don't know what you call these businesses. They're not
like Montesssori schools, but it's basically like a place where

(03:13):
like smart kids go and hang out with other smart
kids after school. If you're like an elementary school, middle
school day care, I guess it is. Maybe it's called daycare, but.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
Sounds like like babysitting for precocious little pricks. Yeah, I say,
as a former precocious little prick.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah, I was gonna say you were the one to
join that club for sure.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
I love that shit. Are you fucking kidding me? I
would have loved to just go. Actually, maybe I would
have hated it. Maybe my life just turned out exactly
how it was supposed to. Maybe if I hung out
with too many kids who were super smart after school
when I was a kid, it would have changed me.
But I think you should one by any place that

(03:58):
is outside of the Yeah, and.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yes, sometimes you get sometimes you get weird requests. I've dj'
like fundraisers for you know, nonprofits and stuff, and that's
not even really weird, but you know, like this after
school thing, this daycare place was I had such trouble
trying to figure out what to play because it's the
thing where I'm like, this was many many years ago,

(04:23):
so it wasn't like I would even say that these
kids are not They're probably millennials now or something. But
like at the time, I was like, I don't know
what kids like. And then I was like, should I
just play Kids Bop? Which is like, you know, I
was like, do kids listen to Kids Bop? Are kids
into Kids Bop? Or is this what we think they're into? Yep, yeah,

(04:46):
And then I was like that then I'd have to
go out and buy kids Bop records, which is like
I don't want to do that. But then I was like, well,
then what do I play? Do I play like Push
It by Salt and Pepper, Like what is this? How
do you DJ for kids?

Speaker 1 (04:59):
Also? Are there boundaries now because like, you know, we
listen to any and everything nobody cared, but now people
are like that's too sexual, or that's too political, or
that's too like I don't want to freak kids out,
but I also think they're already listening to those shit
you just don't know it, Yeah, I know.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
I mean it would be different if they were in
high school. I think that was the the age was
what was really throwing me, because I was like, oh,
if they're in high school, then I'd just be playing
like Nicki Minaj and stuff or whatever like exactly, you know.
But like it was weird because they're kind of little
and so I don't really know and so my might.

(05:37):
Now I'm thinking, what if I did get a gig
at a nursing home, what would I play?

Speaker 1 (05:43):
Here's what I would suggest. There's always a crowd pleaser,
right because these are folks that are accustomed to dancing,
like they used to go to parties and actually dance
and go out and actually there's always crowd pleasers. There's
always like, you know, I will survive. There's know fucking
begs like they'll dance, they will dance to shit. But

(06:05):
I would say, and this is purely selfish, because I
often think about who I'm going to be as an
older person in a nursing home. Nobody is gonna play
sepulturer for me. Nobody's gonna play an like Radiohead or
anything that I actually listen to. They go for the
for the baseline, They go for the least defensive baseline.
Freak them out, play some shit, play some like fucking

(06:26):
Echo and the Bunnymen for them.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
We are you thinking that people that like Echo and
the Buddy Bet are nursing homes?

Speaker 1 (06:31):
Now? Absolutely think people. Do you think any of those
people plan to get old or retire or die? One
hundred percent. Play some fucking psychedelic furs and watch who
dances around, and those are the coolest people in the
nursing home.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
But I like psychedelic furs, so that means I would
be in the nursing home.

Speaker 1 (06:50):
Whatever.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
Yeah, we're all head breaked out.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
By this, Okay, all headed for one, We're all headed
for a nursing home and just think about like, even
when they play movies, it's like a bucket list. It's
like always you know, while you were sleeping, no one
is gonna show you a fucking Giallo movie in a
nursing home. But if you are in when you are
in a nursing home one day and you're gonna be like, yeah,
I'm doing the activities. All these activities are catered to

(07:15):
the kind of people I would never have hung out
with in my actual life.

Speaker 2 (07:19):
I guess what I'm saying is that I'm trying to
tell myself that I'm still young enough to just DJ
a nursing home, not be in one to enjoy the DJ.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
Iily went to, No, you're gonna be in one, play
what you want, just left over it like fucking flow joke.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
You're like, bitch, you're locked in there. They're gonna fight
out your DJ and they're gonna make you DJ for
your fucking roommates.

Speaker 3 (07:44):
No, I'm talking about I'm young and I can still
play for people or in there.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
But it's sad.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
It's true, It's truly. It's truly the same. Though. What
I mean it is the thought process should be the same.
Of I can play what I think is cool because
somebody will be into it, Like somebody who's currently ninety
might not know that. You might not know that they're
into it because all they ever get is the baseline. Yeah,

(08:16):
but you.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
Want to hear mental, is what you're saying.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
If and I'm saying this to the listenership at large
and to you because I do not have children, I
have a will, I have a trust, like I know
who is going to be responsible for me when I'm
older and should I be in care. But I just
want this known and remembered. If I'm ever in a
nursing home or retirement community of any kind and you

(08:42):
expect me to show up to a fucking activity, you
better be playing some of the weirdest ship possible I
or just for me, just come visit me and be
like here, I'm playing pulp for you, like I'm playing
what you actually used to listen to.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah. Yeah, I keep thinking that things are gonna change
for us, Like maybe it's not like obviously the music
is gonna be different, Obviously the movies are gonna be different.
I feel like the food would be different. Yeah, Like
I mean as much as like it's probably like the

(09:21):
wisest to serve soft foods in a assistant living or
nursing home scenario. I mean, I feel like all the
motherfuckers that I know are these like stupid foodies that
are like really into like you know, artistically crafted fucking
foods stuffs. So it's like, oh no, we're gonna get
like the asparagus one asparagus in some kind of sauce

(09:44):
with a squiggle on top, and like.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
There are different I've because I've been visiting for so
long and I've seen how this looks. There are definitely
different dietary options. And also my grandma's in a very
good home, like they're fantastic. I know a lot of
them are not, but she isn't a very good one.
So there are different dietary options. Some of it is
for texture, so you got your soft chewers, and some

(10:10):
of it is just preference. So if you still got
your teeth or you got some good dentures and you
can still chew, they'll give you a fucking HOGI if
that's what you want, you can make your own menu
for lunch. But the food is really good, but it
is it is not going to be at all artistic
and also imagine, so you're sitting in a fucking retirement

(10:31):
community and they bring around dinner and you're peeing in
your own pants and they bring you a fucking curried
butternut squash rizo with a squiggle of a dobo sauce
and green onions on top. You ain't eating that shit.
That would be the most annoying fucking nursing home on
the planet. Because this is the other option, I'm like,

(10:54):
what's going to happen? I can see it coming a
mile and a half away. What is going to happen
for our generation? If someone is going to say, at
some point we need to make nursing homes cooler, and
then that's the shit we're going to be dealing with.

Speaker 2 (11:10):
Well, the first thing that screams out to me is
that nobody's nobody from our generations trying to eat that
American food. Sorry, Like everyone's going to be like I
want Korean barbecue absolutely for lunch today, and then for dinner,
I want Peruvian Like Like when I think about, like, oh,

(11:32):
what what have I seen in either hospitals or I
said hospitals, like a perspital.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
An hopital in hospital, in hospital whatever.

Speaker 2 (11:44):
Whatever I've seen in these establishments thus far has basically
been like American food like meat loaf, yep, you know,
mac and cheese, potatoes, this type of fair. And I'm
saying that people our age when we get old, it's
not going to be that they're not gonna want that stuff.
They're gonna want like ramen.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
We want taketos, we want a bucket of Trader Joe's cookies, yeah,
or like I guarantee someone's gonna be like, can I
have can I order out some insomnia cookies? You know
the like. Again, we're just we're too specific because we've
taken food to such a degree it's it's kind of

(12:24):
a stark reminder to visit. I encourage people to visit
retirement homes if they can, and nursing homes if they can,
because it's a really stark reminder that we don't always
get to do whatever the fuck we want. Like that's
the goal, that's what we're working for now. But occasionally
someone's gonna take over your most basic needs. Yeah, and
they're not giving you tiketos.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
I know we're not gonna get fullafel with a side
of hot sauce.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
And so no, so yeah, I think it's it's go
DJ one and then stay for dinner, and then maybe
you'll be the person who comes up with the cool
retirement home for us. Because also it's gonna take it's
gonna cost a million and a half dollars to feed
gen X, gen y, gen Z and beyond, because everyone's
gonna want a different meal every day, like no big

(13:12):
bucket strake and known as size pots of stew are
coming out of our kitchens, like I can't eat that.
I'm gluten free, I can't eat that I'm allergic to salt.
Like it's gonna be a fucking nightmare.

Speaker 2 (13:23):
I love how this one from hey, I want to
kind of dj a nursing home sometime to having a
full on panic attack about what it's going to be
like when we're in one and we're never going to
get our foods in our heavy metal music. This is
what this is what happened in the past fifteen a M.

Speaker 1 (13:42):
You know, I'm a dowur bitch. I'll bring it down
in a heartbeat. I'll bring any conversation down in ten
seconds of flat The joy of djinget a retirement community.
Oh shit, we're gonna be in one one day. But
this is also why this house is gonna be a commune,
because you know my plan already.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
Yes, you me.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
Anyone who wants to move in, who is either single, childless,
any of our friends who just have no plan, they
get a room in the house, or the barn or
the silo, or maybe you'll build a tiny house out
in the back somewhere too. We can accommodate all of
our of our friends, and then we pull our social
Security checks in retirement, we hire a driver and we

(14:26):
hire a chef. Okay, the fuck, dude, eat whatever we want.
Listen to Slayer all day long.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
Yeah, No, I like this plan better. I don't right,
I don't know if I want to be in the
in the home.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
No, we'll do We'll do a tiny retirement community. It'll
just be like one house. Yeah, that to me seems
like a better plan for autonomy, because I cannot go
into the sweet slumber of my end days with absolutely
nobody suggesting that I watched Chernobyl. Yeah, they ain't showing
Chernobyl all these fun retire of villages.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
No way, they're not gonna. It's not gonna be you know,
a bespoke experience. I'll tell you how much.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
So no, we're gonna hire a chef and a driver.
The driver will take us to all our doctor's appointments
and take us into the city and do whatever the
fuck we want. Okay, pull those checks, man, live free.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
Extremely down. I will DJ. I don't do Spotify, I
do actual vinyl.

Speaker 1 (15:27):
So there's no kids Bop or maybe you will buy
a kids Bop and we'll all fucking laugh our asses
off at back that ass up done by a group
of nine year olds who can't say the word ass
for kids Bop in ninety nine.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
Kids Popping ninety nine. Okay, so speaking of metal, perhaps music,
maybe kids pop, I don't know. We have, uh a
letter from a listener that I wanted to to you.
If is that okay?

Speaker 1 (16:02):
Always okay?

Speaker 2 (16:03):
Since it's Halloween, it's a Halloween themed email, so here
it goes. This is from Chris s him pronouns. The
title of the email is called Halloween FMK, Hey, movie queens,
Greetings from the UK. I always thought I didn't like movies,
but after listening to you and re examining my thoughts,

(16:25):
it turns out I'm just particular about the kind of
films I like and do actually enjoy the right films. Anyway,
to the point at hand, as we're in spooky season
and you clearly love music, I thought a Halloween themed
FMK would be appropriate. Can't wait to hear the answers
on this one. Keep up your amazing work, Chris S.

(16:46):
And we have an FMK that is I don't know.
It seems like it's right up your alley. It's definite.

Speaker 1 (16:52):
Yeah, okay, oh, it's right up both of our allys.
I also, I am so curious to know how we
have influenced Chris to watch certain kinds of movies that
are considered the right films. I want to know what
Chris thinks are the right films.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
Yes, Chris didn't like movies at all, appearing until Us,
Until Us.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
Scary loving this. I havena wait for this email my
whole fucking life. Are you kidding me?

Speaker 2 (17:18):
You really turned him out? Danielle, you like movies before
you came along? Girl?

Speaker 1 (17:25):
What what did it for you?

Speaker 2 (17:27):
Was it?

Speaker 1 (17:29):
Possession? Was it?

Speaker 2 (17:32):
I wasn't border to be honest. Okay, are you ready
for this FMK?

Speaker 1 (17:38):
I'm so ready for them?

Speaker 2 (17:41):
All right? Halloween FMK from Chris As your choices are
Pete Steele. Well, I'm assuming is Peter Steele from Typo Negative.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
Don't get them a cheat sheet? Let him look at
let me go to Google's.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
All right, fine, Rob Zombie, I won't tell you what
band he.

Speaker 4 (18:01):
And Nick cave Wow, all right, I'm gonna give you
my answers in rapid succession because this is so easy
for me, and then I will explain the answer. Oh, absolutely,
go ahead.

Speaker 1 (18:13):
Okay, fuck Peter Steele married to cave kill Rob Zombie.

Speaker 2 (18:20):
Very interesting, Let's go.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
Did you ever see Peter Steele on Jerry Springer? Uh?

Speaker 2 (18:26):
Yes, I did. That shows up on TikTok once in
a while.

Speaker 1 (18:31):
Every time it does like, how are these people? How
are the children getting to this? What was the exact
search function that brought you to Beete Steel on Jerry
Springer in the nineties. I'm fucking he's tall, He's super tall.
You've got that voice. Yeah, he's a like just creepy

(18:53):
enough mm hmm again weird l I'm into it. I'll
give it a shot. She got that long ass hair, like,
bring it the fuck on. He seems like he's kind
of built underneath. Yeah, all the you know the goth stuff.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm fucking beat steel. Absolutely, yeah,
marrying Nick Cave because his music is eternal in my life.

(19:16):
Through every season of life, Nick Cave has shown up. Yes,
absolutely today, I know I told you. I don't know
if I told the listeners that I saw him in
Los Phillies once.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
No, oh wit, no you did, like maybe very very
early days of the podcast.

Speaker 1 (19:31):
Yeah, and he was just like a dad with his
kid walking around and I'm like, I could have that
afternoon with him. That could be a marriage. Yeah, just
walking around looking at bookstores, having a little diner food
at Fred sixty two.

Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yes, that sounds lovely.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
I'm into that. And then he got in I think
I did talk about it because I expected him to
get into a hearse and he got into like a
pickup truck.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
Oh right, right right, you were like what? Yeah, I
think we ended up talking about like famous people's cars.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
Yeah, like it was like a new make up drucking'
like what's having in here? But yeah, that seems like
a nice little day. And again he's Nick kne he
ate in my face all the time.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah, he's a world traveling musician. He will not be.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
Home hanging around. Bye love you see when you get here, bye, goodbye, goodbye.
And then Rob Zombie. I mean, look, I am a
person who used to have dreadlogs. I had dreadlocks for
about ten years and frequently got complimented on them because
I took very good care of my dreadlocks. So teach,

(20:32):
we're talking, teacher, your old shampoo shade butter. Yeah, like,
shit was tight, scalp was clean. I do not know
what's crawling out of Rob Zombie's head or that hat. Yeah,
so he gotta go, And I'm not a fan of
his films, so he gotta go.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
Remember when he wore that, Like did he used to
wear like kind of those like court Jester hats? Or
am I thinking of what do you call those hats?

Speaker 1 (20:57):
The court Jester hat is the one that arcs out with.
I would have loved that season for him.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
What it's like he wore. It's like the hat. It's
not a beret, but it Yeah, it's like a nineties
had to me, like Jeff Ahments from Pearl Jam wore
a war.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
It a lot? Is that style the exaggerated beret of
the nineties? I know I could picture exactly what you're
talking about, like that.

Speaker 2 (21:30):
Patchwork pattern sometimes, and I kind of confused it in
my mind.

Speaker 1 (21:37):
Just now. For l Jorgensen's hat.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
People were like a wide headbands a lot, you were
a wide head band.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
But then didn't he occasionally have that like real tall
Abraham Lincoln looking top passing stove pipe hat. But it
was like a dusty stovepipe with like goggles on the outside.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
Yeah, it was like a steampunk was proto steampunk?

Speaker 1 (22:01):
That proto steampunk hat. I thought maybe maybe uh Rob
Zombie had touched upon that at one point in his life.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
Wow, it's like the big mountain dreads, right, the snake
eating the tail or what.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
Is a snake eating a mouse dressed mouse dress? Like
I used to I used to be on a dreadlock
forum like community, real early days like or like we're
talking over twenty years ago, early internet. Sure, it was
pretty hilarious because I just like twirled my hair once

(22:37):
and let it do its thing, and then I had dreadlocks.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
Yeah, But the forum was like a lot of white
people being like, how do I do dreadlocks? And they
were talking to each other about how to start them?
Oh wow, and so many people were like, you got
to use beeswax, you got to use like all this
stuff to kind of build it up. And then they
would do that and years later come back and be like, hey,
I cut off my dreadlock. And they would cut they

(23:01):
would show the cut dreadlocks and the inside. You know how,
instead of looking like a tree with the rings that
indicate years of life, it was just a dreadlock with
the rings that indicated layers of filth. It was just
like bees wax and bees wax and dust, like actual
dust like branches and twigs and leaves like these are

(23:25):
like a compost pile.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
And I'm like that was on your head for how
many years? Like this is why appropriation does not work
for everyone. If your hair, regardless of your race, if
your hair does not naturally dread, maybe it ain't for you.

Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah, I feel like, Okay, I just googled a picture
of Rob Zombie.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
Now, oh I have this is also the thing. I'm
thinking Rob Zombie nineties, So.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
Yeah, yeah, I know. That's why I was wondering if
he still had the dreadlocks. That's why I was like,
has he kept that? Look? I mean, it's seems like
I can't tell if this is just extremely tangled long
hair or a dreadlock. It's like dancing on the line.

Speaker 1 (24:08):
I'm looking at a current picture of Rob Zombie and
it just looks like I've been electrocuted and it changed
the texture of my hair to straw. I don't know
why I'm going so hard on this man's hair.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
No, no, no, I mean listen, this is part of
part of the you know, the discursive nature of the
FMK we're talking about this shit. Actually, there was a
period I think, where he had just long hair where
he looks fucking great.

Speaker 1 (24:38):
Yeah, he just had like like an ombre going a Hopprey.
It looked good Rob Zombie and an Ombre yo and like.

Speaker 2 (24:46):
The dark beard pretty good.

Speaker 1 (24:48):
But can you get with that? If that was the
norm he'd be, I would boot whoever I needed to
boot to change this list to fuckable at least. Well.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
And then but then there is he he's got a
gray beard, so this might be more current where it
is dreads. It looks like actual dreads so yikes. Yeah, okay,
well this is uh, this is all good intel for
made for my choices.

Speaker 1 (25:14):
Yeah, that was that was easy for me. I'm also
looking at it at a picture of Rob Zombie with
dreads in a Trilby hat.

Speaker 2 (25:20):
What's the trill?

Speaker 1 (25:21):
Like, don't be getting Let me see if I could
put it in the chat, like, don't be getting all
fucking cute with your hats? Hang on, put this in
the chat. Yeah, you gotta see this.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
We need like a chart of annoying men's rock and
roll hats because I don't know what to call them.

Speaker 1 (25:39):
Here's the chart, all of them. Get on your head.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
I don't know what the Jeff Aument hat was called.
I mean this is annoying.

Speaker 1 (25:46):
I need the Jeff Ament hat was also like the
like the nineteen seventies what's happening rerun hat?

Speaker 2 (25:55):
Yes, oh yeah, he looks like this is I think
he's wearing like a rostafarian's hat.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
Why is he doing that? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (26:05):
The fuzzy, the fuzzy caangle. There's a fuzzy caangle when
it comes to hats.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
I think everyone should err on the try of Maybe
I won't try it.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
I just wear what they call dad caps.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
I'm cool with a dad cat at beanie, Like, I'm
actually cool with anything. I don't care what people choose
for themselves day to day, but I will judge it
in my head.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
I like talking about it. I'm not saying i'm judging.
I just like the discourse. Oh I see, Yeah, it's
kind of like a Fedora with the Bill Flatten. Why
would he do that?

Speaker 1 (26:44):
Also, his name is Robert Bartley Cummings. Of course it is,
that is and he's from Haverhill, Massachusetts.

Speaker 2 (26:53):
Yeah yeah, Okay, well just to knock this, just to
knock this out finally with this FMK for our Halloween season.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
And to get me off of this Rob Zombie image page.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
No, because we're because we're about to return to it. Okay,
here are my answers. My answers are as follows for
this Halloween FMK. I am going to fuck Nick Cave,
I'm going to marry Peter Steele, and I am killing
Rob zon.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
Asbie.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
Sorry, I'll go in reverse order because we're already on
the subject. The reason why I'm killing Rob Zombie is
that I feel like we have We're very close in interests, right,
and as much as I was like, oh, I would
love to date a guy who like likes cult movies
and probably knows everything that I know, I can just

(27:48):
see it being a fight like, I can just see
him being like, actually, Barbara Steele wasn't in that movie.
She was in you know, and I'd just be like,
I'm gonna fucking punch you in the dreadlock.

Speaker 1 (28:01):
So you have to kill Rob Zombie in the FMK
because if you were with Rom Zobbie in real life,
you would actually murder it.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yes, because we're too similar, I think, is what would happen.
And I won't go beyond that. I mean, I've actually like,
I've been around him, I've worked with him before, and
we actually I know people that are friends with him.
It would just be like dating myself. And do I
really want to do that? I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (28:25):
I don't think it's what it's cracked. Everyone points to
dating yourself as the mark of self esteem. I think
it's quite the opposite.

Speaker 2 (28:31):
Well, I think instinctially you're like, oh, I just want
to date somebody that likes everything that I like. But
then you're like, but then you have to you know,
there's a power struggle, and what's that going to be like?
So that's that's what I'm killing. I am going to
actually I'm going to go in weird order. So I
killed Rom zombie. I'm gonna fuck Nick Cave because I

(28:52):
think ultimately the reason why I want to fuck him
is just really because I feel like it would just
be like a really romantic weekend, Like we could do
the thing where we're like in Romania and we have
this like wonderful, like wine infuse romantic weekend where we're

(29:14):
you know, hanging out in a castle and wearing velvet clothes.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
If you're a fucking nick Kay for even one night,
you're absolutely going to a castle at some point.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
Exactly. I just see it being a romantic weekend because
ultimately I want to marry Peter Steele because he is
probably my shitty little vampire. Like that's a good candidate
for my shitty little vampire.

Speaker 1 (29:39):
We're good. He'd be in that bunker with you doing
some some spooky shit with like skull rings on.

Speaker 2 (29:45):
Well, and like here here's the weird thing about him,
and I want to put this out here. I don't
know any of these men, okay, so like this is
just a game we play. We don't know who they
are in real life. When I was watching the interviews
with him in his Haydays, the Jerry Springer, I feel
like he was on Jenny Jones too or something like. Yeah,
he was doing like a whole talk short show tour.

(30:07):
Everybody was horny for him because he was in Playgirl,
right exactly. Yeah, I I never saw him in Playgirl.
I mean I've seen like pictures like online with like
something you know, glazed over the you know what, But
like that was his claim to fame for people who
don't even know who the fuck this guy is. He
was the least singer of a band called Typo Negative.

(30:29):
They actually rule Love Type, They're fucking great. But he
was like he was famous for being in Playgirl because
he had a big schlang and whatnot?

Speaker 1 (30:42):
Do they show and they they show dog in Playgirl. Yes,
I guess that shouldn't be a surprise to me.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
No, no, no, oh they do for sure.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
Well he's like seven feet tall. Of course he got
a big dog. Woirl.

Speaker 2 (30:56):
If he didn't, well, that's the thing is that, like
they probably would have put more famous people, and like
it felt like not a lot of famous people wanted
to do Playgirl.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
I wonder why.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
But so he was the one who was bold enough
to be like, yo, I'm gonna do it.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
He's like because I can fuck off. Also, just for
everyone out there, I'm sure everyone knows this, or most
people do, but we weirdly have a lot of young listeners.
It ain't the size of the boat, it's the motion
of the ocean. Sometimes you don't need all that, you know,
it's literally too much.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
You don't need all that. We're like, we're not. I
don't know. Maybe it's just says I'm old. I don't
care about anything. I care about little to nothing. At
this point, you could show up with god no rules.

Speaker 1 (31:49):
You can show up, take off your pants, and I'm
just looking at like the fucking oracle it DELFI between
your legs. I don't care, like you drop trou and
it's just like a bunch of mice playing saxophone. I
don't care.

Speaker 2 (32:07):
Yeah, yeah, I care about little to nothing. I want
to emphasize that. Come on, like we're too old to
be like Parsons shit like this out like Pete. But
I will say that Peter Steele, Pete Steel was like
that was his claim to fame, right even though his
band was great. And but here's what we'll say, and

(32:28):
this is the reason why I was like, I kind
of want to marry this guy. When I was watching
the interviews, Like many fucking dark goth guys, he was
kind of dorky, Like you can tell there was like
a thin veneer of dorkiness under his you know, I
don't know, like big dick energy. I suppose absolutely.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
He's one of those goth guys that I absolutely live for,
where they present one way in a way that is
meant or was in the past, meant to discourage and
frighten most people. Yeah, and then underneath they are d
and D playing Rhodes scholars.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
Yeah, and and puppy dogs like That's that's my thing.
And that's why I love a shitty little vampire is
because I'm like, yo, you look like you're about to
kill somebody. But when when I know you, when we
go home, when you come off the set of Jerry Springer,
you're a huge fucking dork and you're sweet and nice

(33:30):
and and loyal and all of those things. So that's
that's what I mean. And that's why I thought, okay,
I would marry him, because I got a vibe that
he was kind of dork. And again, I don't know
him in real life. Don't send me your stories about
how you hung out with Pete Steel back in the
nineties and he was this and that.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
No, and he's dead, so we don't need to go there, yeah,
because we'll never know.

Speaker 2 (33:53):
But anyway, So that's my that's this is my list
for FMK this week. Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
I love this list. I love this list so much.
I love this email so much. Again, Chris S. You
don't have to write back in. I just love that
you have found some right films through the mayhem that
we have presented enough to give us this perfectly crafted FMK.
So thank you.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
Yeah. I didn't think I liked any of these men
until you wrote in.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
I thought I had zero thoughts about all these dudes
except Nick Cave. I'm like, yeah, listen Nick Cave all
the time. He's constantly on the rotage. He said, heavy rotage.
But I had no thoughts about fucking, marrying or killing
any of these guys.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
Yes, So you changed our lives to Chris. We appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (34:38):
I got to see a picture of Rob Zombie with
an ombre. I cannot point to anything that has changed
a facet of my existence more in the last five years.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
So these films this week, Holy fucking shit.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
Oh my God add to both of us.

Speaker 2 (35:04):
To both of us, we always talk about how this
might be the most depressing week. This is the most
depressing double feature, this is this is pretty bad. This
is very depressing.

Speaker 1 (35:16):
I will even go so far as to say that
your film, which I had never seen before, is easily
the most disturbing thing you have ever chosen for us
to watch.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
Interesting. Interesting, you know. I wondered that when I chose it,
I was like, I wonder what people think about this movie.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
So disturbing and in general the week, the movies this week,
I think put me in a particular place because it's
about people we used to be or could have been. Yeah,
so I'm just I'll tell you the theme just because, yes,
so we can really get into it. Our theme this
week is teenage girls trying to change their lives. That's right,

(36:05):
And oh my god, yeah, you're your movie. Your movie
is interesting too, because I went on one of these,
you know, a streaming service and bought it and then
it just was and it was a little expensive, because
I'm like, oh, maybe it's just because you know, it's
a hard to find film, a little expensive. Bought it
and it was the commentary someone doing full commentary over

(36:28):
the film.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
Oh wow, weird.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
So then I had to go and buy it or
you know, rent it again to see the actual film.
But then I went back and watched the one that
I first bought with the commentary, because after I watched
your movie, I was like, somebody got to bring me
down and explain this shit to me.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, who did the commentary? Do you remember?

Speaker 1 (36:47):
I don't even remember.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
Wow. Interesting.

Speaker 1 (36:50):
I needed I needed help. I needed a handholding. I
needed you know, Carrot was not interested in shepherding me
through this experience.

Speaker 2 (36:59):
Well that to say your film was a stone cold
bumber too. You think your film was fucking thirteen going
on thirty or some shit like, Man, I love a
stone cold bummer.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
You know that I'm a dowur bitch.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
I have not cracked this movie open since two thousand
and nine? Is that when it came out two thousand
and nine? Man, I was like, I A, there's one
scene where we were gonna talk about in just a second.
Well there's multiple scenes. But never have I been I
swear to god, I was thinking this as I was
rewatching it. I have never been more disappointed in a

(37:38):
male character ever.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
Uh, Huh. This is the worst of what men have
to offer is on constant display in this movie.

Speaker 2 (37:47):
And it happens to be an actor who I feel
affection for, and I'm trying to not let it ruin
my view of him, because he's also been in other
movies where he looked like shit and and felt like shit.

Speaker 1 (38:03):
So movies that I've brought to this very podcast.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
You love making this guy to a motherfucker.

Speaker 1 (38:08):
This he loves it I am making for him. He
loves fucking on screen, and he loves disappointing the shit
oeud of you.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
Is there, ever, Is there a movie that he's been
in where he's been like a fucking peach?

Speaker 3 (38:22):
No, I don't think has He's always been a piece
of shit? Is this such a jectory of your fucking career.
I'm always need to be a little bit of a
piece of shit?

Speaker 2 (38:37):
He was?

Speaker 1 (38:37):
Was he okay?

Speaker 2 (38:38):
And I glorious Bastard's got like give me something?

Speaker 1 (38:41):
Nobody was okay in that movie. They were all fucking nightmares.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
Well you're going first this week. I can't wait to
talk about this movie, because shit.

Speaker 1 (38:51):
I sure the fuck am My movie, as Millie said,
was released in two thousand and nine. It was written
and directed by Andrea Arnold and my my film is
fish Tank, but you don't know nothing, So why should
always say? Is the first movie that I thought of

(39:11):
when you know, considering teenage girls who are you know,
trying to change their lives? And I really think the
theme was born out of my desire to bring this
film to the podcast because I just think it's fucking
phenomenal and from it's one of those movies. The first
time I saw it, it just stayed with me. It
felt like the most real portrayal of teen girled, modern

(39:36):
ish teen girldom that I'd seen in a long time
or ever. And I just fucking loved it. Yeah, I
just fucking loved it. So the movie is written and
directed by Andrea Arnold, who's fantastic total j She's you know,
gone to con Film Festival a lot, He's had a

(39:57):
lot of you know, she's done a lot of short
few short films, some TV, she directed some TV. She
actually directed a lot of big Little Lies, which I
thought was interesting because she has a good eye, like
she has such a fantastic eye. And then a lot
of films, so she's maybe you've seen American Honey, maybe

(40:17):
you've seen her version of Wuthering Heights, maybe you've seen
Red Road. She's just fantastic and she's you know, she's
just just this wonderful British director who I just have
always loved. This is not her first film, but it
was first film of hers that I saw, and I thought,
what a way to come out of the gate with

(40:37):
something so fantastic, And she's really cool. I watched a
lot of interviews about this film in particular, and she
loves dance in real life. Dance plays heavily into our film.
She loves dancing in real life. One thing I thought
was really interesting about this movie is that usually when
you're filming TV or film, you know TV or film,

(41:00):
you have a script that everyone gets and you just
give them the script and let them look at their parts.
On the day of filming, you might get something called sides,
which is where they'll print out scene by scene if
there are any changes, or you know, if you will
need to memorize something new, or if you just want
to focus on what's being done for that day, that
will be printed out and available to you. Andrew Arnold

(41:20):
did none of that. She did something filmed in a
way that was I think I believe is referred to
as continuity. So the actors who are not in a
scene didn't get to read those scenes they got so
they were their emotion for their characters and their character
thrust came from a lot of discussion with the director

(41:44):
and the writer. For example, there's a mom in this
film who's played by Kirsten Wearing, and she has an
interview where she was talking about how when she first
saw the film because of premier and when she first
saw the film, she didn't realize what was happening to

(42:05):
the girl and between the girl and Connor, essentially, she
was really surprised by that scene. Oh wow, yeah and yeah.
So there were just moments where if you're not in
the actual scene, a lot of the actors didn't know
what was going on with the rest of the film.
So it's an interesting way to direct, and I think
it brings a different emotion out of the story. But

(42:27):
it also is great for a director who wants who
wants to have that kind of deep connection to the
actors in their film because it is so conversational. It's
very much you know, oh, well, this scene is this
is how you should be feeling. This is how you
should be acting. Try it this way, try it that way.
Just gets a little bit more creativity and spontaneity to

(42:49):
these scenes. So my one sense. In synopsis A Fish Tank,
a volatle fifteen year old girl in English council housing
trying to use hip hop dancing as a way to
enhance her life, encounters the ultimate roadblock in her mom's

(43:09):
new boyfriend.

Speaker 2 (43:10):
Yeah who.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
So this film stars Katie Jarvis, who prior to this
had not acted before. The way that her audition came
about with the way that she got the role is
very funny. You should go look that up. Basically, it
was like Andrea Arnold kind of saw her and was like, hey,
do you want to be a movie in a movie?
And she was like yeah, fuck off. Like she basically
was like I want what are you talking again? In
my face?

Speaker 2 (43:32):
Just like it's kind of like the Matt Dillon thing
when we talk about over the edges, like people just
like like kids walking around being bad kids and then
somebody's like, hey, you want to be in my movie.
I'm like, how came that ever happened to us?

Speaker 1 (43:47):
We weren't bad enough Mellie, we were not bad enough.

Speaker 2 (43:49):
I don't know, you seem bad. You've dated assassin assassins and.

Speaker 1 (43:55):
Prisoners, and I was definitely a badass little kid in
a lot of ways, but not that not bad enough
to be like, huh, she's got something going on. I
was bad in a worrisome way, where like, what the
fuck is gonna happen to her if she doesn't straight
en up and fly right?

Speaker 2 (44:10):
You weren't fucking like knocking girls in the nose with
your skull, is what you're saying.

Speaker 1 (44:15):
Absolutely not headbutting anybody on purpose.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
Okay, yeah, maybe a different than.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
Also not having sex. I didn't not lose my virginity
until I was twenty one, right, so like I was,
I was, Which isn't to say that sex is bad.
I'm just saying that. I think a lot of the
reason people act poorly in their teen years is because
they are super hormonal and very horny, and they have
nowhere to put those emotions, so they end up acting out. Sure, Yeah,

(44:43):
whereas you know, I just wanted a boyfriend and couldn't
get one and just read books.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
Me too, I just heart, That's all I did.

Speaker 1 (44:56):
So that that prevented me from becoming a straight up sociopath.
I was pretty bad, though. You're right, I was a
pretty bad little kid in a lot of ways. I
was put it this way. I was a reckless adventurous child.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
That's what I think it's more about. It's really just
like a maybe it's more of a Jois de vivra.
You weren't like a juvenile delinquent necessarily.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
I was a reckless adventurous child who became a terrible
adult at a certain point in my life. I saved
my badghit for my twenties, where I did, in fact
date men with John Wick assassin level tattoos.

Speaker 2 (45:33):
You dated a murderer.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
We know that I dated an actual murderer, someone who
went on to kill someone jumping off speaker stacks. Yeah,
I dated a Scottish guy who jizzed in my fucking eyeball.
Like it was. It was bad.

Speaker 2 (45:54):
I just scared my dog screaming hot that.

Speaker 1 (46:01):
I had some experiences, yo, yo, I had some experiences, man, recover.
I don't know what else I should reveal you. I mean,

(46:22):
if you can handle what else I after reveal.

Speaker 2 (46:24):
I don't know. That felt like a big piece of information.
I think you're I think you've really showed yourself.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
Happened one time? He swore it was by accident, and
I genuinely wanted to rip his dick off his body,
like the feminism that came out of me in that moment.
It was like, what what kind of depraved the fuck?
This was an undisgusted This is not like a king?
What the fuck are you doing? You can't just go

(46:55):
from zero to jizzy in someone's eyeball with no conversation
in between.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
Holy fucking chick.

Speaker 1 (47:03):
Also, it's like, do I now have to worry about
ocular STIs? It is the fucking nineties, Like we are
a condom happy relationship and you're doing that shit.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
Yo, My mind is blown.

Speaker 1 (47:17):
Change my life, Change my fucking life. I was like,
I need to straighten up and fly right. I got
married a couple of years later. I couldn't handle it
right right, But yeah, I was. I was a reckless
and adventurous child who became a bad twenty year old.
Yeah for a while, and then yeah, but I could
have been mia Ynia is our main character in this film,

(47:41):
and she has it real fucking rough. I was. I
think that was kind of This connective point that I
felt with her too, is that when you're watching this film,
you're watching someone trying to access hope. There is no
hope in her life, yeah, and she's fighting so hard
to access these tiny glimpses of hope that she could

(48:03):
have a different life. And that was me to a
fucking tea where I'm like, what is it that's going
to get me out of this situation, this feeling, this family,
like whatever it is. I feel like, yeah, I felt
that as a kid, and I'd never seen that so
effortlessly represented on film.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
Yeah. Yeah, there's this kind of running storyline of she
sees this horse that's in like a parking lot, basically
tied up with a chain to you know, some concrete
little post or whatever. And I always thought, you know,

(48:45):
I mean, it's obvious. It's not I'm like a genius
for figuring this out, but it's like, you know, sort
of an allegory for her. It's like she is trying.
She just jumps the fence. She sees this horse, and
she's like, why is this horse tied up? So she
just wants to free this horse, and so she does
it the first time. She just tries to like bash
the chain with a rock, but then she comes back

(49:06):
every so often and she's like, it's still tied up,
it's still tight up. I want to free it. I
want to free it. And then she realizes that it
does have owners, and it's like some guys that are
like kind of living I don't know, like they're kind
of in living in these kind of like trailers and
they own the horse technically. But I think that's the
thing is that I think that is like the story.

(49:27):
The part of the story that reminds you of like
what she actually wants is that she wants freedom, and
she wants to get away from this existence.

Speaker 1 (49:35):
Right absolutely, And in order for her to keep going
back and trying to free this horse, she puts herself
in more precarious and dangerous situations every time. Right, So
even the act of trying to access freedom is dangerous
and could have severe consequences for her, right right.

Speaker 2 (49:53):
M hm.

Speaker 1 (49:54):
So it's very interesting. And she lives in English council housing,
which is the American version of the American version would
be the projects essentially, and so she's living with a
single mom. She has a dog that she loves. His
name is Tenants. Which I love t an ts and
she has a little sister, Tyler, but it's clear from

(50:17):
her living situation that she doesn't receive a lot of
care or attention. And when we first meet her in
the film, she's already had a fight with her best friend, Kiely,
who is a piece of work. To see Keelly again
represented on stage, excuse me on screen, so interesting to

(50:37):
see how a small thing, a minor shift of we
got into a fight and now you're literally never going
to be my friend again. Like when we meet Keely,
she has moved on with another group of friends, a
whole different group of girls, and has essentially left Mia alone.
That loneliness that Mia is feeling is so palpable from
the minute the movie starts, and she's not going gently

(51:00):
into that good night, She's not accepting it lying down.
She is a fucking fighter, so she's definitely you know,
giving people money to buy or booze. She's getting in
fights with the girls. When she first encounters Kihi and
is like, what the fuck's going on? While are hanging
out with these girls, they start fighting and she headbuts
a girl in the fucking face. She's she's a scrapper,

(51:21):
she's gonna fight for kind of what she believes in,
even if it's misguided, and even if it doesn't ultimately
give her what she wants. But even just looking at
the way that she is like that those first couple
of opening scenes, and there's something that Andrew Arnold does
which I love, where there's it's not exactly like a
soft gaze lens, but it's the way that she films

(51:43):
sometimes it's truly beautiful. There's a Christmas to how she
focuses in on people and tries to kind of blend
out the background so that you can really focus on
the characters. But then there is the background is also
such a part of who the characters are and how
they move through the world. So it's kind of an interesting,

(52:03):
kind of gentle, almost merchant ivory look at the world.
But it's modern, so it feels kind of delicate and
harsh at the same time. I love it. So we're
seeing these girls and they congregate around dancing. So it's
set in a time where hip hop reigned supreme right

(52:25):
and Mia especially it's trying to use dance as a
way to kind of deal with her emotional life but
also to connect with people. Now, when you first meet
Kihly and her new friends, they are clearly dancing for
the male gaze, right, They're dancing to be seen. They're

(52:46):
dancing to kind of promote their nascent sexuality. They're feeling themselves,
but also it's very performative. Whereas for Mia, who's wearing conversely,
you know, not wearing what these other group of girls
are wearing. Me is wearing sweatpants, big hoodies, oversized stuff. Yeah,

(53:09):
not trying to be seen. Genuinely loves dancing as a
way to perform for herself. So she kind of like
goes into an abandoned apartment where her speaker and her
you know, she dances even when no one else is watching.

Speaker 2 (53:25):
Yeah, she wants to be more of like a be
girl or something, versus like her friends who want to
be like the Spice.

Speaker 1 (53:32):
Girls or something completely completely and so there's this real
disconnect for her because again, like you said, she's she's
seeing that freedom and care and attention and in a
lot of ways love is not accessible to her. But
she has something that she loves as she puts so
much effort into as a way to give her again

(53:55):
that hope that is just not guaranteed, or there's not
that implicit assumption that her life will get better than
what it is right at that moment. I also really
love Andrew Arnold does this this thing in this film
where you usually see Mia from a she's looking down
on people, so she's usually on a higher plane looking
down at the world, And I think that metaphorically, it's

(54:19):
not meant to It's not meant to insinuate that Mia
is contemptuous of the people she sees, and not in
an uptight way, but just that she is above the
fray and does not want she It's a way of
kind of displacing her and indicating that she doesn't really
belong in her world, like when you see her on

(54:40):
the same level as everyone that is in her world.
It's a really fraught experience for her, and the only
time she gets peace is when she's above it and
she's elevated, when she's looking at it from the outside
in So I just again, Andrew Arnold is just such
fascinating director to me in that way. But yeah, MIAs
a fucking a character I've never seen before. And she

(55:02):
also has a really fraught relationship with her mother, So
at first it kind of feels like typical mom daughter,
teenager acting out shit, but there's something really deep happening
in the small moves that you're seeing in this relationship.
One is that it becomes obvious very early on that

(55:24):
MIA's mom is very young, So MEA's mom is fifteen,
and you get the feeling that her mom had her
when she was around the same age, that she and
her sister have different fathers, that again they're living in
council housing, that she doesn't seem to work, her mom
doesn't seem to go out and work. But her mom
is also very pretty, and so there's this competitiveness coming

(55:46):
from the mother. From this, you know, this character of
Joanne that Mia feels and is trying to rail against
and push back on but doesn't quite understan stand because
she wants her mother's love. She clearly needs her guidance.
But then the more you realize this relationship, it's clear

(56:09):
also that MIA's mother is very immature and sees her
as competition in a lot of ways. She's competing with
me in a way that Mia is never going to
compete with her mother and doesn't even want to that
she's kind of it's that interesting It's a very interesting
angle to play for a woman who possibly had children

(56:32):
young and didn't get to fully live out her teenage
dreams or access that hope or access what Mia is
trying to access. So instead of encouraging her children towards
the thing that she is missing, she's deeply resentful of
the fact that Mia gets to be a teenage girl
and the way that she never was. But there's also

(56:54):
something at play there about femininity, because it's clear throughout
the film that Mia is starting to explore sexuality and
explore femininity and is not sure how to access things
like wearing makeup and dancing. There's a really, really beautiful
and interesting scene where Mea is dancing in the kitchen

(57:18):
making breakfast. She meets Connor, who is her mother's soon
to be boyfriend, but at the time it's just like
kind of a one night stand played by Michael Fasbender,
and he comes downstairs and he sees me A dancing,
and she's again not used to being viewed by men
seen by men. The only example we've had up to

(57:38):
this point is when she tries to set the horse
free and a couple of the young boys, the teenage
boys that live there are joking around about sexually assaulting her,
like they're kind of holding her and trying to pull
her pants off and she breaks free. But there's a
real threat to being seen by men and boys up
to that point. So when Connor's looking at her, she's

(57:59):
in beare not just because she's you know, has been
caught in a private moment, but she thinks he's kind
of cute. You can tell right away she thinks she's
kind he's kind of cute, and he's looking at her
in a very adult way, which is where the problems
of this film begin. But then there's again the comparative

(58:23):
scene is that shortly after when Connor leaves and her
mom comes downstairs. Her mom is dancing in the kitchen
and she's just got this real ease to her sexuality
in the way that she dances, and Me is kind
of watching her, and you can tell she's wondering, like
how do I do that? Like how do I get
to that place where I can my body and mind

(58:45):
are aligned and how I'm presenting myself to people very
very fascinating. But yeah, there's just there's there's a lot
going on with the mother daughter relationship in this movie
that I just again have not really seen for trade,
so it seems effortless. It absolutely is not, but just
so in a way that feels so real, like that

(59:07):
I've either seen in my own life or seen in
the lives of people that are close to me. And Tyler,
this little sister. If you think me and her mom
are having problems, Tyler is the most ragged little sister
I've ever seen. Tyler is a fucking beast. She's got
to be around seven years old. She does not give

(59:30):
a single fuck about anyone. She is just pure active ego,
just NonStop id. She is just says whatever comes to
her fucking mind. Right. At one point, her mom tries
to get her out of the kitchen, and she's because
she's like her. When her mom comes downstairs in her

(59:52):
underwear and is dancing, MIA's watching her, but Tyler is
standing right next to her and says, you look like
a tramp. And then when she puts shoes her out
of the kitchen, She's like, you fucking badge, like she
shouts at this woman and then stomps up, sting she is.
There's a scene where she and me are in or
they're in MEA's room. Tyler is watching TV on the

(01:00:14):
floor with one of her friends and they're smoking a
cigarette and drinking a beer. She's seven years old, crazy,
and then they're yelling at the TV like, look at
this bitch, and look at it like this as a
feral child. God, this child is fucking feral. At one point,
she's talking to Connor and she's and he says, you know,
they're having this little funny exchange about her pretending to

(01:00:36):
be a gate and not letting him out of the
front door, and then she looks at him and she says,
I like you, I'll let you live, and you kind
of fucking believe her, Like, has this seven year old
committed felonious assault at this I would believe it if
you told me that. But in the same way, she's
a little kid, like she has not been protected enough
to learn that there are other ways to be in
the world besides ravenously feral way to protect yourself, and

(01:01:01):
she hasn't really learned how to express herself outside of that,
or to tame that side of herself. So there's just
no there's no care. You don't see the mother like
Joanne doesn't hug them or care for them or clean
or any She just kind of always pushes them to
the side. The house is always you know, dirty plates
are everywhere, and everything's kind of all over the place.

(01:01:22):
So then enter Connor. Connor is dubious from jump. He's
this hot little guy, Michael Fastpenner who shows up one night,
comes back to party a couple of times, and then
just moves the fucking right. He doesn't mind the presence

(01:01:47):
of the children. He's really tender to them. Like at
one point, MIA's been you know, both of the girls
have been pushed to their rooms or her mom can
have a party where their friends downstairs. Mia falls asleep
by her mom's bed, and Connor very tenderly kind of
picks pikes up this fifteen year old girl and carries
her to bed. So it's kind of introduced as a

(01:02:09):
mark of a sign of tenderness. But she's also way
too old for this kind of tenderness, which is exacerbated
when he takes off her shoes and her pants before
covering her up with a sheet. And like, Mia pretends
to be asleep during this, but it's hard to imagine
that he does not know this is not right.

Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
Yeah, Oh my god. I mean, this is like what
I was going back and forth about again when I
was watching this movie. It's like it's hard to tell,
like whose perspective we're seeing this from, right, right, because
you've got this girl fifteen years old, no dad. She

(01:02:53):
experiences little to no tenderness or niceness in her life, honestly,
and then she's kind of being taken care of by
this new boyfriend of her mom's. And there's like two
things going on. So there's her wanting parental tenderness, but

(01:03:18):
then also she's sort of you know, trying to figure
out boys too, and here's this boy in her life.
I mean, he's not a boy as a man, let's
get serious. But like it's so it's kind of that
double sided thing of like I need a parent and
I need a boyfriend, right, But then you're not really

(01:03:39):
sure whose perspective it's from because then from the other
side of it, Because this is again I think why
I felt so disappointed by because I was giving him
the benefit of the doubt for the first like big
chunk of the film, Like you want to believe right
that he's going to be this parent, and he's encouraging

(01:04:03):
her to do dancing, and he's supportive and all this stuff,
and that these like moments where it maybe flirts with
like an inappropriateness, maybe is actually just him, you know,
being a young person expressing love for a platonic love, right, Right,
But so it's really hard because you're just like, are

(01:04:25):
we thinking about her or we think about him? What
is he thinking? What is she thinking? Because there's it's
very layered, and I mean that's part of why this
film is so brilliant, but also it's very hard to
watch as a viewer. You're like, I don't know what
to think about any of this.

Speaker 1 (01:04:39):
Yeah, And it's again that what you just mentioned is
that point of confusion that Mia feels that we as
the viewer also feel because we know she hasn't ever
really experienced care before, right, so she must be so
confused about is this the kind of care and attention
a parent would show or is this my burgeoning sexuality

(01:05:02):
exactly perfect? Yeah, And it's so devastating and scary to
see how quickly she can go from a place of
care to a place of harm. Yes, because she doesn't
know where that line is. So she's trying to figure
out where that line is at the same time, and
one of the ways that she's doing that, aside from Connor,

(01:05:22):
she kind of meets this this guy. So, one of
the guys who owns the horse, these you know, younger
teen dudes, is named Billy, and she comes back to
get her stuff because she at one point runs away
and leaves her bag with her speaker and all of
her CDs in it to kind of save her own life.
But she comes back and she wants her shit, and
she kind of sparks up this relationship with Billy, who,

(01:05:45):
by the way, is also the actor who played the
superstoned guy and attacked the block.

Speaker 2 (01:05:51):
Oh wow, funny.

Speaker 1 (01:05:52):
So she comes back and they start kind of hanging
out and it's a true teenage relationship and that it's
not overtly sexual right away. They're not explicitly dating, but
she likes being around him. This is the first guy
that she kind of has chosen to be around that
she likes, and it seems less harmful than the other

(01:06:14):
boys and men and men in her life right, and
far less harmful than actual boys to men the group.
So Billy kind of enters her life in a way
that allows her to play out her feelings and what
would be considered a traditional or normal relationship. But she's
not as interested in him. You can see it on

(01:06:35):
her face. She's not as interested in him as she
is in Connor. So at the same time, she sees
this flyer for female dancers, which she again in her
mind takes as hip hop crew, like a b girl,
and she's thinking, well, this is a way out I
can get this job. She's been kicked out of school,
she has been sent to like there's a social worker

(01:06:59):
that comes to the house at one point, and she's
being sent to this referral unit, which in the UK
is kind of an all education program, and she gets
to live there, but she doesn't want to go. She's like,
this is not my fucking Why am I being sent away?
So she's looking for pathways to her own success and
thinks that this dance job could be one of them. So,

(01:07:21):
as she's preparing her routine, as she's in this burgeoning
relationship with Billy, as her mom is pushing her further
and further away emotionally, and with this introduction of this
reform school essentially literally pushing her further and further away,
she has a night where she's at home. Her mom

(01:07:44):
comes home super drunk, Connor less, so Connor puts her
mom to bed, he hangs out downstairs on the couch drinking,
and Mia comes downstairs to spend some time with Connor
and they're sharing alcohol and she's still fifteen the whole time,

(01:08:05):
and he wants to see her routine, so she shows
him and he calls her over next to him and
gives her a hug, which again very paternal at first,
but then he starts kissing her and then they have sex.
And I almost didn't want to explain that part. I

(01:08:28):
didn't want to reveal that, but so much more happens
in the film after this that I won't reveal. And
this is a crucial point of understanding for this film
that again Andrew Arnold is walking this line very well,
because it is definitely consensual, even though this girl is underage.
And I know that, you know, the party line is

(01:08:50):
kind of if you're underage, you can't consent, But at
the time this film was made, that was not even
part of social discussion, and she's really playing with the
idea that this is a young girl who has chosen
to have a sexual experience a very a very awful, inappropriate,

(01:09:12):
deeply harmful sexual experience. But the sex is not the
harm for her, for Mia and my experience, in my viewing,
the harmfulness is all with Connor, who was saying some
of the wildest shit while they are having sex that
indicates his jealousy of Billy.

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
Yes, Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (01:09:35):
So you're like, wait, has he been planning this? Has
he been this lecherous ghoul thus whole time? Like he's
been inappropriate with her. We've seen it, we know that,
but it was put in such a framing of paternalism, yes,
that it was easy to want to give him the
benefit of the doubt until this happens. Yes, and you're like,

(01:10:00):
to your fucking core, And again, it's not her, she's
not being harmed by this experience, but it's her first
sexual experience. Yeah, and she's having sex with her mother's
boyfriend who has been kind of grooming her. Yeah. To
this point is that's what I realized in this scene.
It's like, oh, he has been grooming her this whole time.

Speaker 2 (01:10:21):
Yeah, And that's the thing that's so hard because you're
just like, God, you just really wanted it to not happen,
Like you're just in my mind, I was like, God,
can he just like be like kind of a father
figure and be cool? Please don't do this, Please don't
go here.

Speaker 1 (01:10:42):
And yet, but that's just it, Like he's you want
it to be. You're in me A's point of view,
fully in that moment, in a way that again, to me,
is a masterful way of writing and directing. Yeah, because
you're fully in me A's point of view at that
point where oh I didn't want it. It's not that

(01:11:04):
she didn't want to have sex with him, she wasn't
sure whether she wanted him to be a father figure
or a romantic figure. Yeah, and now there's no turning back.
Now you're in it. There's no turning back, and you
as a viewer are put exactly in that space. And again,
I wish that there was more, because there's a lot

(01:11:25):
more that happens that I will not ruin. After this,
it goes to wild places. I wanted to see more
of her reaction to this, because after this happens literally
the next morning, so after they have sex on the couch,
Connor pretends he's been drunk, Like, oh my god, I
can't believe I did that. I'm so wasted right, and

(01:11:48):
even though she's not upset, is wrong on so many
levels for this to have happened. Literally the next morning,
Connor leaves, he has moved out, and her mom is
like depressed and devastated. She doesn't know why he's left.
You have a feeling that Tyler knows why, because they
heard a little creek on the steps at one point,

(01:12:08):
and you're like, oh, Tyler might know what's going on,
but he's gone, He's out of her life. So the
rest of the film is this kind of his exploration
of her looking for him, not knowing if she wants
to find him, does she find him? What happens if
she finds him? A lot happens. A lot happens after
this moment. So this is a jarring point in this

(01:12:31):
two hour film, but so much more happens after it
that really makes you feel simultaneously awful for me but
also a little bit upset with her. She does things
that make me, as a viewer, really scared for her
and question what kind of person is she going to

(01:12:55):
become as a result of this experience. Has it made
her softer? Has it made her harder? Has it made
her crueler? So a lot happens after this, but I
think it's just it's a truly wonderful movie in that
it is surprising and shocking, and we'll have you tapping

(01:13:19):
into emotions that you thought were dormant for a long
time about growing up and trying to become a person. Yeah,
I think the ending a lot of what I've read,
and you know, at the time I saw it, talked
about with friends, and a lot of people were very
saw the ending of the film is very hopeful. I

(01:13:41):
have never thought that. I think the ending feels a
little bit more fraud to me and much scarier to
me in terms of what's going to happen to me. Also,
she's kind of set up to replicate a lot of
family patterns. Yes, I'll leave it at that, but there's

(01:14:02):
a there is a moment where towards the end of
the film you get to see a glimpse of Joanne
as a different person her mother in two different ways.
One is slightly more loving. One is Joanne saying, you know,
I almost had you aborted. I made the appointment and everything.
So there's I don't know, there's just there's there's not

(01:14:24):
for me, a hopefulness at the end of this movie,
the way that is built into other people's viewing of
this film, I want there to be I want to
feel hopeful for this, for this girl. Yeah, but I'm
really scared. I'm at the end of this film very
scared for her, more scared than I am hopeful, which
again is her own experience of her own life. So

(01:14:45):
masterfully done. Andrew Arnold is the best at this. Uh.
And I just highly recommend if you can stomach it
watching this film.

Speaker 2 (01:14:54):
Yeah. Yeah, it's I mean, no doubt, it's bleak, no doubt,
But I also specialty. Yeah, your specialty, and I love
I love a bleak film too. I mean it's no
doubt about that. I mean, my this is why I think,
maybe potentially why we sometimes do themes like this about

(01:15:14):
teenage girls, like movies about teenage girls, uh, in this way,
because I feel, like, you know, I I think part
of like the reality of teenagers is that, you know,
especially with teenage girls, it's like a lot of times
you don't see them in these in like in films.
I mean, you just don't really see them much in

(01:15:34):
these situations where they're in peril and they are self
sabotaging right, because you know, Hollywood is much more interested
in like making them into little princesses and shit. You know,
I think anytime you do have a film where this happens,
and there is a lot now there has been many

(01:15:56):
more complicated portrayals of teenage girls, but it's hard to
watch because you do in like a lot of just
like you, I start thinking about the things that I
have done and I was never in her economic situation,
gratefully for that, but it's that thing of like, oh
my god, like what is she going to do? Like
is she making the right decisions? You really want her

(01:16:18):
to succeed, But then also you know, I don't think
she even knows.

Speaker 1 (01:16:22):
How exactly she has no map, no model.

Speaker 2 (01:16:26):
Yeah, but that's what makes it bleak is that you're
just like, Okay, these are people who are up against
the wall and this is all they know and you
hope for the best, but it's it's really tough, and
that's you know, it's weird. Like I feel like our
movies are very similar in that way. Like I gotta say,
I think our movies are a lot more similar than

(01:16:46):
I even thought before pick them. I think that they
end differently though, right, there's like your way, and then
there's my way. So it's either like yeah, a little
bit vague as to what will happen, and then there's
the nuclear option exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:17:06):
But it's also it's very interesting that in both of
our films, class structure play so heavily into the options
that these girls have or think that they have, and
how the class structure that they live in dictates who
they are to people before they even open their mouths.

(01:17:28):
But then they also very much live up to those
those preposterous stereotypes sometimes because they feel like, well, fuck it,
if you already think this way about me, why not
do it in that teenage way. So yeah, I just
just yeah, love this movie. I really love this movie.
I think that it's it speaks to me on a

(01:17:50):
personal level in so many ways just have not just
in terms of how this particular teen girl is represented
and the the horrors that are facing her in her life.
But you're a movie who let's get into it.

Speaker 2 (01:18:12):
So my movie for the theme teenage girls trying to
change their lives or are they? It is from nineteen eighty.
It was written by Leonard Yakir and Brenda Nielsen, directed
by Dennis Hopper, and it's called out of the Blue.

Speaker 1 (01:18:29):
Why do you make things so difficult for yourself my life?

Speaker 2 (01:18:32):
I could do what I want with you. Just give
a tiny bit of background information about this movie. So
this was the first film that Dennis Hopper, the actor
slash director Dennis Hopper directed since his movie The Last Movie,
which is from nineteen seventy one. Now, the trajectory of

(01:18:59):
these films sort of happened like this. So you know,
you've got easy writer, which we've discussed on this podcast.
Go back and listen to that episode. You know, Dennis
Hopper became this like countercultural hero for that movie, right,
Like the thing was like a huge success, changed Hollywood, changed,
you know, the public consciousness about hippies and counterculture all

(01:19:20):
that stuff. Right, So of course this movie was popular
enough to where they said, hey, you want to make
another movie. So Dennis Hopper decides then to make this
movie called The Last Movie. Looks fantastic, by the way,
I don't know if you've seen the new restoration of
the Last Movie that came out like fairly recently. But man,
super weird and artsy. Okay, Like Dennis Hopper was definitely

(01:19:47):
on drugs when he made it like.

Speaker 1 (01:19:51):
To a fault.

Speaker 2 (01:19:52):
I think I think it's suffered a lot because of it.
But that was it, so basically as easy writer. Then
he makes the last movie and then Hollywood was like, okay,
this enough of this, so we're like, you made this
one thing that we really like and we thought we
could make more money off of. But then then he
went and made the weirdest movie possible after so.

Speaker 1 (01:20:14):
And that was his own freak. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:20:16):
Yeah, yeah. Actually, it's kind of my favorite thing that
happens sometimes in Hollywood, where Hollywood decides to give it
outsider somebody like a chance to make a movie. They
make a hugely popular movie and then they're like, you
want some more money, and they're like, well, let me
tell you how weird I actually am.

Speaker 1 (01:20:31):
I'm thinking instantly of Boots Riley for example.

Speaker 2 (01:20:34):
Yeah, exactly. I mean it's happened so many times, right.
I think it's kind of fucking punk rock. I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:40):
Yeah, it's great, it's so fucking punk. I love it
so much.

Speaker 2 (01:20:44):
So so speaking of punk, so essentially, the last movie
was the last movie that Dennis Hopper had made until
this movie, and he was actually hired as an actor
for out of the blue. Initially he was he had
he wasn't hired to direct it. He ended up stepping
in at the last minute because I believe the one
of this screenwriters, Leonard Yaker, I think that's how you

(01:21:06):
say his name. He was going to direct it, but
then at last minute they swapped him out with Dennis Hopper. Now,
from what I've read, initially the movie was supposed to
be a little bit more of like an after school
special type of thing, like it was essentially about a
psychologist who was sort of working with like a troubled
young girl, I'm assuming, kind of in the vein of

(01:21:29):
like ordinary people or something.

Speaker 1 (01:21:31):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:21:32):
Raymond Burr plays the psychologist in the film, and I
think it was more about that. It was supposed to
be more of kind of like a character study drama,
teen drama. But then, of course, when Dennis Hopper got involved,
it became much darker.

Speaker 1 (01:21:47):
You know, have you ever seen that that that video
where somebody takes the Shining trailer and sets it to
Salisbury Hill. Oh, of course, of course, I feel like
that's what the movie was supposed to be, the Salisbury
Hill version, And then the actual Shining came out of it.

Speaker 2 (01:22:06):
Yeah, it was like I'm assuming that, like, you know,
the Linda mans character was supposed to look like Ali
McGraw Love Story, with like her knee high socks and
her fucking like you know, peacoat and then they just
took a sharp turn.

Speaker 1 (01:22:20):
They're like, you remember you don't ever see led Me
from Motorhead, Let's do the the teen girl version of that.

Speaker 2 (01:22:26):
God be still my beating heart. Well, and like, I
want to talk about Linda Mans because I think she
I mean, first of all, she's a cinematic hero of mine.
For sure. She passed away well a few years ago now,
but you know, she was hired to do this movie

(01:22:46):
because Dennis Hopper was like really into the idea that
she was in a punk rock and again, this is
like late seventies early eighties is like the absolute era
for it. So she So Linda Man's made her her
feature film debut when she was only fifteen years old.
She was in Days of Heaven by Terrence Malick, which

(01:23:07):
had only come out a few years prior. So that
was kind of her first film. And in that movie,
she's very memorable. She does the voiceover for it, and
she's just kind of like, but this is her vibe
and this is like why I love Linda Mans is
that she's sort of in line with all the like
little tough girls that I loved in movies, right, like

(01:23:29):
Robin Johnson in Times Square, which we've also talked about
on the podcast Christy McNichol, and Little Darlings, which we've
talked about, like these kind of tough, street wise, cigarette
smoking teen girls obsessed, Like how could you not be
obsessed with them? They're so cool, and like that's who
Linda Mans was at this time, you know, on screen.

(01:23:53):
And then at some point in the eighties, after she
had made a few films, she decided to leave the
business and she wanted to like her kids and get married.
And then the next time, at least the next time
I saw her was when she was in Gummo, the
Harmony Kren film, and she was the mom of the

(01:24:13):
little kids Solomon, you know, the kid that eats spaghetti
in the bathtub.

Speaker 1 (01:24:16):
How can you fucking forget Solomon?

Speaker 2 (01:24:19):
How could you forget? And like the scene that but
I remember her in the most was when Solomon is
in the basement and do you remember he's like shirtless,
he's working out in front of a mirror, and he's
got two handfuls of silverware that he's taped up and
he's using them as like hand weights. Yes, And then

(01:24:39):
she comes down and pulls out a like starts tap dancing.
She pulls out a pair of tap shoes and starts
like performing. It's like such a such a wild scene.
But that is like what when I was like, oh,
that's the little girl from Days of Heaven or Out
of the Blue, you know, so it was a long
time between those two things.

Speaker 1 (01:24:58):
She's got this like New York thick New York accent.

Speaker 2 (01:25:01):
Yeah, she's from New York for sure, but and just yeah,
very you know that kind of gruff like knows a
thing or two little girl, which is so I mean
to me again, like I just like gravitated towards those
types of characters and films. So once I did synopsis
ab out of the Blue a teenage girl living in

(01:25:24):
the Pacific Northwest who is obsessed with punk rock and Elvis.
Presley struggles to find normalcy within her broken, addicted family.
So this movie was shot in Vancouver, so yeah, very
Pacific Northwest e like flannels and you know, trees out

(01:25:49):
a lot of outdoorsy stuff. The title of this movie
comes from a Neil Young song, which they actually play
multiple times in the film, So there's kind of that vibe,
like the Young vibe. So this movie is about Linda
Manns plays this girl named Cindy who is called Sebee.

(01:26:09):
She is, you know, like again kind of like a
tough fact in tom boyish character, wears a lot of
like denim and that kind of stuff, smoking cigarettes. She's
being raised by her single mom who's named Kathy Uh
and she played by Sharon Farrell. And here's this the
general gist of the story because just really like it's

(01:26:30):
really like not there's things happening, but it's really more
of like a slice of life type of film at
the end of the day. So Seebee's father, Dawn, who
was played by Dennis Hopper. He at the beginning of
the film, they show this horrific accident right where Sebee

(01:26:51):
and her father are driving around in his semi truck.
He's drunk, right, and then they basically crash into a
school bus full of kids. It's crazy when they show it.
I mean there's a couple of I mean you see
a couple of like, you know, kind of bad props

(01:27:13):
floating around, but it's like they show it. I mean,
they show the action of it, and it's really really disturbing.
And then this becomes the flashpoint for the rest of
the film, which is that Dawn, her father goes to
jail because of it. You know, she is sort of
like constantly reminded of it. She's got a scar on

(01:27:34):
her face from the event. And then the truck, the
cab of the truck is now in their front yard
and is like grown over, you know, trees and branches
and stuff. And then this is like a place where
she sits.

Speaker 1 (01:27:48):
She hangs like a hay out, like a fort for her.

Speaker 2 (01:27:50):
It's like a fort. And this is like the sight
of one of the most tragic accidents you can even imagine, right,
So it's that up in this way where it's just
sort of like, yeah, the dad's in jail, you know.
Her mom, meanwhile, has been having an affair with like
I guess, the owner of the diner where she works.

(01:28:11):
And she is a heroin addict and will do heroin
with Don's best friend Charlie, who is a total fucking
creep from the and I was creepy, guys, that hang
out at Bowling Alley's.

Speaker 1 (01:28:28):
This is the worst character I've ever seen on film
in so many ways. He's so bad news.

Speaker 2 (01:28:35):
Yes, like just a fucking creep letch, like you know again,
like sort of this is Don's best friend on the outside,
and he's just sort of like trying to you know,
have sex with the mom and with Cbe at one
point and is just sort of like, you know, not
a good not a good guy. So essentially, if you

(01:28:57):
as you can imagine so much traum and Seb's like
she's trying to find escapism, and this is the way
she does it is through music, right, I think that's
a very common thing. I mean it certainly was for me.
And like I used music as an escape as a teenager,
like you wouldn't believe and still do still do. I
mean again, I did not have anything close to the
scenarios that Seebee was going through in this film, but

(01:29:20):
like this, like I idolized musicians in the same way
that she did. And this is what she does is
that she like loves punk rock, She loves sid Vicious
and Johnny Rotten from the Sex Pistols, and she fucking
loves Elvis and she uses Elvis as a way to
kind of escape herself. There are times in the movie
where she starts to dress like him and she sings

(01:29:44):
like is it teddy Bear? I think it's the song
teddy Bear? And it always feels like she's singing that
song when something bad is about.

Speaker 1 (01:29:51):
To happen, absolutely right. And she's also like just such
a little kid. Still, there's so many moments where she's
you know, in the fetal position, sucking her thumb yep
and like holding a teddy bear, holding an actual teddy Bear.
So like when she sings that song and then you
see her in these moments, it's just that juxtaposition is
insanely poignant.

Speaker 2 (01:30:13):
Yeah, And just like Mia in Fish Tank in your film,
like CB, is that she's you know, basically like asserting
her dominance over like her like the kids in her school.
She doesn't even like going to school. She's got like
a couple of girlfriends and they just kind of hang out.
But you know, she's like a tough, a tough chick.

(01:30:34):
She's you know, basically mea They're very very similar in
that way, meaning that they get into fights with other girls,
which I never did. I always avoided physical conflict if
at all possible.

Speaker 1 (01:30:47):
But although I will say my former best friend, I
write about this in my book, but my former best
friend used to constantly want to physically fight me as
like a show of her own strength Jesus. And so
I charged her. We're playing kickball one day in my backyard,
and she kept changing all the rules, oh boy, to

(01:31:09):
benefit her in her team. And I charged the mound
and popped her in the face and her nose started bleeding,
and I ran into my house crying.

Speaker 2 (01:31:16):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (01:31:17):
Yeah, like I'm not in that moment. I was like,
I'm not this. I don't want to fight. I'm not
this bitch. I can't do it. It was too tender.
It was too devastating for me.

Speaker 2 (01:31:26):
Yeah. But so basically, you know, Stebee's trying to just
like escape this shitty life of hers, and you know
she loves punk rock. There's this really really great scene
where she goes into the city and she sees this
band and there's actually like a real band at the time,
they were called Pointed Sticks, and she goes to see
their show and she like meets the band backstage, and

(01:31:49):
then the drummer kind of comes along and takes her
under his wing and like allows her to get on
stage and drum for a song. It's so cute, like
so cute.

Speaker 1 (01:31:57):
She's real so happy.

Speaker 2 (01:31:58):
Yeah, she's so happy. She's like totally in her own
world there and loves it. And you know, this movie
again gets really really dark at times. I mean, I
won't I don't feel like giving these moments away because
again I feel like it contributes to the end of
the story, which is very shocking, but it deals with
like addiction and sexual abuse and poverty, and it's just dark.

(01:32:20):
It's another bleak film. And the thing that I think
is really interesting about this era too, is like in
the like Out of the Blue is a huge cult
film at this point. I think a lot of people,
you know, it was basically restored in I think it
was like twenty eighteen or twenty nineteen by Natasha Leone

(01:32:42):
and Chloe seventy. Weirdly enough, they were huge fans of
the film and they helped, you know, organize a kind
of fundraiser to restore it. And that's the version I
think that we saw for this episode. So there's a
huge cult following for this film. Obviously, Linda Manns is
absolutely part of it, you know, but then there's also
the Dennis Hopper mythology. Generally, I feel like in the

(01:33:05):
in the early eighties, there were movies again, like I
talked about like Times Square, Little Darlings, stuff like Christian
f which if you've never seen as a movie from
nineteen eighty one, but also like Foxes with joduh Foster
from nineteen eighty Like these are dark, very real depictions

(01:33:27):
of teenage girls and they're smoking, and they're drinking, and
they're having sex, and they're street wise, and you know,
this is like pre Molly Ringwald, pre even like Ali
Sheety in The Breakfast Club where it was kind of
this like you've got this like the you know, the
weird Girl, the Ali Sheety and Breakfast Club Girl, where

(01:33:48):
you know she was kind of seen as a bad
kid right and then. But yet prior to these films,
I mean, you got these really really dark teenage films
and Over the Edge again like another movie we've talked about,
or I'm just like even before the John Hugheser there
was there were some bold teenage films well.

Speaker 1 (01:34:11):
And I also wonder how much of that was fueled
by you know, satanic panic and parents just really or
people really needing to place teenagers or preteens as dangerous
people in society if left unchecked, because it was a
part of being a teenager that no one had seen

(01:34:33):
that level of you know, violence and wandering and just
kind of you know, drugs and you know, you know,
post sixties. I think that it was just scary for
a lot of people, and they were trying to make
people scared, and their films it is like, look, this
is what they really like or I just wonder how
much of that was a part of it?

Speaker 2 (01:34:49):
Is that right?

Speaker 1 (01:34:50):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:34:51):
Absolutely? I mean you have to think I mean you
have to think that that like the PRMC and the
Satanic Panicle, that stuff that came later in the eighties.
I mean, part of me wonders if it was informed
a little bit about this era, which to me, it
feels like these early eighties teenage films were very much
more informed by seventies than eighties.

Speaker 1 (01:35:11):
Yea.

Speaker 2 (01:35:11):
And then you know, of course again you get the
John Hughes films where it's more about suburban kids, less
about kind of city wise, street wise or even like
rural kids. Okay, So at the end of the day,
though this film takes a very dark turn, even darker
than anything that we've discussed. There are moments where the

(01:35:35):
information is revealed that will make you you're gonna have
the same feeling as you had about Michael Fassbender. You're
just gonna be like, why is this happening? And then
it kind of ends in a much different way than
I think your film does as I alluded to, and
like it really is sort of like a a desperation
or just a perhaps like like a nihilism, like a

(01:35:56):
punk nihilism or something that happens, and I don't know,
it doesn't feel good, Like this movie doesn't feel good either.
Both these movies are bleak this bleak week here. But
I do think what's what I love about these films
is that again it is not these like perfect portrayals
of teenage girls. They are, you know, making bad choices

(01:36:20):
for themselves, but they're also trying to escape their situations
in their own ways that they can. They just don't
have the resources to leave bad scenarios right, and they're
trying their best. They're they're young, they're you know, they
don't have good role models, and then they're just like
economically barren, so it's like they are trying the best

(01:36:45):
that they can, I think at the end of the day.

Speaker 1 (01:36:48):
And that's almost more interesting to me is to explore
when people explore that that time of life when you
are too young to do anything about your situation even
as you're living it. So we're seeing a lot of
that desperation and that clawing nature come out of you know,

(01:37:08):
the almost feral nature come out because they literally can't
do anything about what's happening to them.

Speaker 2 (01:37:13):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. And and even in spite of
the darkness of my movie this week, I mean, there's
a couple of amazing scenes, like the seed of Dennis
Hopper in the landfill with all the birds everywhere. I mean,
that's a great looking scene. And then my favorite is
really really short and kind of almost like a throwaway scene,
but there's a there's one where Ceab's on the street

(01:37:34):
and she's kind of like walking down the street and
there's a street performer. It's kind of a guy who's
just singing, and it sort of breaks the fourth wall,
like you can tell that they edited in you know,
basically the filming of it, so that you know you
hear people in the background going thank you. We appreciate it.
This kind of stuff. I love that it kind of
takes you out of the intensity for just a brief

(01:37:54):
moment and it kind of reminds you. It's like they're
making a movie, you know, it.

Speaker 1 (01:37:58):
Introduces the possibility some levity.

Speaker 2 (01:38:01):
Yes, agreed, because it is it is really hardcore. But
but yeah, this movie is a gem. I mean, it
is hard to watch, but honestly, like Linda Mans is incredible.
It looks great. The restoration that they did was great too.
So yeah, that's it. That's my movie.

Speaker 1 (01:38:20):
Hoo what a week. And with that, go have a
happy Halloween. Know we're kidding, happy moming. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:38:27):
So okay, if you want to email us, we are
at I Saw What You Did pot at gmail dot com.
Send us questions for bonus episodes, of course, and we
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Speaker 1 (01:38:38):
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(01:39:00):
it in a quiet space.

Speaker 2 (01:39:02):
That's right. And if you want merch, we have it
at exactly right store dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:39:07):
And we have bonus episodes that drop on the main
feed every third Thursday of the month. Millie, Yes, do
you want to tell them our movies for next week?

Speaker 2 (01:39:16):
Hell yeah? Hell yeah? Okay, So our movies for next
week are Away from Her from two thousand and seven
and Only Lovers Left Alive from twenty thirteen.

Speaker 1 (01:39:26):
Oh, try to guess the theme. I apologize for everything
I revealed this week.

Speaker 2 (01:39:33):
Listen as always as a fucking pleasure to do in
this podcast with you.

Speaker 1 (01:39:40):
Always, I apologize for it. But what are you gonna do?
That's I'm just like this. This is how I am.

Speaker 2 (01:39:45):
I'm a fan.

Speaker 1 (01:39:47):
Don't worry, bye, guy By. This has been an exactly
right production. Our senior our producer is Casey O'Brien. Episode
mixing and theme music by Tom Bryfogel, artwork by Garrett Ross.
Our executive producers are Georgia Hartstart Caring, Til Gareff, and

(01:40:09):
Daniel Kramer. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter
at I saw pod, and you can email us at
I saw what you did POD at gmail,