Heal Yourself First - Live from The Om Noire Retreat

Ep. 5: Live from The Om Noire Retreat, Devi and Danielle Cadet in conversation about healing, grieving and growing. -- Follow us on IG! - @DeviBrown

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
M from grandmothers who whispered in their baby girl in
two fathers on dimly lit street corners, instructing young soldiers
to always keep their eyes open. You be queen, you

(00:21):
will fired, you will pass through centuries on the hands
of your daughters. They called you wisdom. Proverbs on the
backs of diamond eyed school children who groomed into hymnals
recited by amethyst holding urban philosophers who recited neighborhood commandments
out of the windows of restored ALCHEMYO chariots to keep
the warmth of their blood, be wise, be smart, being black,

(00:46):
opal brown parts, bloodstone, and prayer. Be every form of
Jim see king told, scribe, scribe, told son, son, told wife,
wife told her daughter, and daughter told the ant this
is And the ancestors told me that you would come
to give you wisdom. Thousands they said you would come

(01:08):
Dropping Dropping the Jam. Hey, welcome to episode five of
The Dropping Jim's Podcast. As always, I'm your host, Debbie Brown. Now,
recently I had the really amazing opportunity to speak at
the omened War Retreat in Tucson, Arizona. That little background
on omn War. It's a wellness lifestyle brand for women
of color that's founded by amazing, amazing woman named Christina Rice, who,

(01:32):
besides being a PR and events maven, she's also a
certified yoga instructor and like me, is wildly passionate about
sharing tools for healing and self discovery through content and experiences.
So for four days I stayed at the Mirror Val
Resort in Tucson, Arizona. Now I've been to Arizona quite
a bit. I love Sedona, I've been to Phoenix, but

(01:52):
I've never been to Tucson yet. And Mirror Val Resort
has a huge reputation for just really being about all
things mindfulness while also being very five stars. So it's
this cool kind of rustic experience. Lots of amazing spa
treatments that were geared towards energy healing, a lot of
outdoor activities. We weren't even allowed to have our cell
phones out, which was hard at first but then felt amazing,

(02:16):
and we shared roughly space with roughly seventy five women
from all over the world and other speakers at the
event included dynamic ladies like Brandy Harvey, Allison Bird, Zara Barnes,
Danielle Cadet, Dmitria Lucas, Dr Kiera king Laschelle Wooten, Brandy Victorian,
Angela Benton, and Sadara Furlow. This Any Retreat is actually

(02:38):
featured right now too, and I believe it's either the
May or June issue of Essence magazine. It's the really
beautiful one that's purple with Alicia Keys on the cover,
So make sure you check that out, and also check
out their instagram, which is Own New War that's O
M N O I R E. And I put a
ton of links and pictures from my perspective video to

(03:00):
on my blog that's on my website. So check out
my whole experience at the Own New World Retreat on
Debbie Brown dot com. So for my part of the event,
I let a sunrise meditation in this beautiful outdoor labyrinth,
and I also did a Q and A session with
the amazing and witty Danielle Cadet, who is the editor
of Refinery twenty nine Unbothered. She is a bar too.

(03:23):
She's a really really dope chick, brilliant, really fun and
had beautiful insight about things that we all really really
want to know when it comes to taking care of yourself.
So we delved into what does self care really look
like in the real day to day lives that we have, Specifically,
what are tools that are needed outside of the very

(03:43):
overused go to of positive thinking. I did air quotes
there to enhance the quality of your day to day
life and lead you to a better relationship with yourself.
Y'all know I live for conversations like that. Also, for
the first time, shared a little bit about recent loss
of faith that I experienced when I found out that

(04:04):
my friend Nipsey Hustle was murdered um and what I've
just been kind of doing to navigate that grief and
find light. So between the talk she and I shared
and the questions from the audience, it was a really
special and insightful conversation. So instead of just letting it
live in the moment in Arizona, I decided, with permission

(04:25):
from Own New War, that I wanted to share it
with you here as well on the podcast. So this
episode is the very special conversation between Danielle Cadet and
myself at the Own New War retreat. I hope you
like it. Please share thoughts with me on social media
whether you did or did it By tagging me at
Debbie Brown. That's d E v I Brown. So here

(04:48):
we go, much love, good morning, where everybody is looking
that meditation was I'm so sad because I missed meditation
this morning, And I'm sad, but did everyone looks bright
eyed and bushy tails, So I know Debbie got you
all together this morning. I hope everybody has some probiotic
juice because it's delicious, clearly a drink online. U. I'm

(05:09):
so excited to chat with you, Debbie. And I know
we spoke a little bit on the phone, and honestly
I could have been on the phone with you all day,
so I don't feel like we really got into it.
So I'm really excited to just chat real self care,
um and to really get real about wellness right. And
you know, when we were talking, we talked about how

(05:30):
white the wellness spaces and how self care can oftentimes
just the idea of self care. Sometimes does it seem
like as as women of color, as black women, it
doesn't feel like we can relate to that. It doesn't
feel like there's a space for us there um. And
so I want to jump in with you and just
talk about wellness specifically for women of color and how

(05:51):
stress affects us differently and therefore we have to exercise
wellness differently. Yeah, can you guys hear me? Okay, okay, uh,
you know it's so interesting and anybody else that is
done like maybe some of this experiential spiritual journey. I'm
sure you recognize that when you are typically somewhere, you
are the only personal color, and you are more than

(06:13):
likely the youngest. Like it's really a space of like
older white people like in the sunset of their life,
or you know, really just white women. Like it's become
very very on trend. You know, positive hashtag positivity, hashtag
blessed are too deleting hashtags on social media right, like
up to a billion chimbined of people putting that on

(06:35):
literally everything, you know, so in positivity and being blessed
and being grateful, like they're all so completely unique to
you in your worldview. So you'll see those hashtags on
a Bible verse or on a car, right, like you'll
see like you just pours on what your value system. Um.

(06:56):
So kind of just a little backstory, like when I
was like working in media, like I shared earlier meditation,
I had a burnout and I felt like I was
tired of talking about things that ultimately didn't matter, Like
did I want my legacy to be that I was
commenting on who had hip hop beef with who? And
who was breaking up with who? You know? Um, and

(07:17):
I started to feel like I was doing a disservice
to my listeners and a disservice to the world by
even talking about those things in an enthusiastic way like
they mattered, you know. Um. And as I kind of
like journey deeper into myself and working through my trauma
and wanting to just deepen my relationship with me, I
just deeply, deeply and desperately wanted that so badly for

(07:40):
everyone I encountered. You know, I'm a I'm a huge believer,
and if you've listened to my podcast, I probably said
this on every episode. But I'm a huge believer that
healing trauma and seeking wholeness is the only only way
for real generational change, for us to really see our
futures change and the trajectory of our family has change.

(08:00):
The only way to really really do that in a
significant way is to work on healing yourself to choose
you first, because when you heal yourself, you have the
opportunity to extend that light to anyone that you touch
or come across. And obviously you know better access to
education and academics, financial literacy, having the ability to earn more,

(08:22):
all of those things are wildly important as well and
play a part. But you can have money and be
a shitty person, right, Like you can have money and
still harm your family is a well. Um, so it's
just it's just really important that we recognize, like when
we talk about self care, when we talk about positivity,

(08:43):
when we talk about purpose, we're really understanding, like let's
make sure that we're not trying to do it from
a comparative place like, oh you're good, Well, I want
to be good too, you know, like, oh, you're living
your best life. I'm living my best life. You know.
We really want to always stay centered in the idea
that we have to choose ourselves first. And that is
so counterintuitive to anything that we were ever taught as women.

(09:05):
The second we are old enough to hold something, as
babies were given a baby to play with, Like how
insane is that when you really think about it, Why
as a baby am I playing with a baby and
learning how to nurture as a child, and you know
it does obviously it is very serving. I mean, women
are such magnificent, magnificent creatures. Like we have discernment in

(09:30):
a way that it is not possible for men. We
have nurturing and care. We have depth in our relationships
that is not typically seen and the relationships men have
with one another. So I do understand a certain level
of kind of our programming for nurturing. It also is
our superpower. But it also gives us this pressure and
this expectation that everything in our world comes before us,

(09:53):
you know, and so real self care. But we want
to dig into it, like yes, like the baths are great,
the trip so great, like all of the all of
the little touches you can do that provide care for
yourself are incredible. But we have to stay grounded and
centered in the root of I am choosing me because
I deserve to be whole, I deserve to have peace,

(10:14):
and when I have those things, me just being who
I am effortlessly will extend that to other people as well.
I love that so much. Oh my gosh, yeah, we're
in for it today. I want to touch on Gooden.
I know, I know, I don't like already like so
much to talk about. I want to touch on something
you just said, burnout. There's a couple of things, um,

(10:36):
just what you just said. But the first thing I
really want to start with is what you do when
you feel burnt out. I've definitely felt burnt out. And
you know, working in the news can be really difficult. Um,
But just in any industry in general, especially as women,
as women of color, we tend to give so much
of ourselves. Talk to me about your journey and about

(10:58):
you know, feeling burnt out, but then having the energy
and the courage to make a transition and to make
a change and to prioritize yourself. Yeah. Um, part of
it was a natural blessing, and that I was raised
as an only child to a single parent. By nature
of that, you spend so much time in your own head,
you know, you spend so I had a very isolated

(11:22):
childhood and that you know, I was a latchkey kid,
so I had to come home by myself sometimes, right,
And then you can't go out and play because you
don't want people to know that your home alone. Um.
And just you know, my natural kind of um wiring
is just as extroverted as I am. It's to go
inside more often than not and to really like analyze
myself and think about my feelings. And I'm one of

(11:44):
those people very email right, um by nature of that,
that was always kind of like my first response to
anything is to go inside. But then life teaches you different.
You know, you forget things that you inherently knew, You
forget the way you're hard wired, and you get it
sometimes very obsessed with other definables of yourself. And a
big shift for me was just you know, and Allison

(12:07):
talked about this last night, calling it like the nudge.
For me, it was like the gnawing in the pit
of my stomach, like it literally felt like something was
right here that said, what else? What else? You know? Okay,
I got the career, I make really good money, I
got the car. You know, some people know who I am.
I'm doing good for my all before the age of this,

(12:27):
you know, And then you get all of that which
society told you your whole life, that's the point of
being here, right, And you're like, but what else? This
is it just so? I mean, you could buy a
new car after a couple of months, it's still gonna
be a car, you know, like it wears Like anything
that is like not inherent to who you are, it's
gonna wear off, you know. And I started really taking

(12:49):
a hard look at myself and realizing that working in entertainment,
having to be on all the time, it was also
you know, fun became the distraction of my life, you know, working,
being a boss, being successful, like it all really became
a distraction for me. Meeting me Wow, when your time

(13:13):
is filled, right, when you're constantly looking for things to do,
when you're constantly out, or if you were like me
as well, if you're a fixer, who's the fixer in
their lives? Right? Always solving everybody's problem, Always has a
bit of advice to give somebody, Always this, always that,
And we feel great in that because that's also one
of our gifts. Um. But we do two things when

(13:36):
we do that. We deny ourselves the ability to focus
on us because we're so righteously taking care of other people.
And then we also rob other people of their ability
to learn resilience and their ability to connect with their
sacred higher power and figure out what their journey is.
We're all here with our own curriculum. We're all here
with our lessons to learn, and we rob other people

(13:59):
of their right to connect with God when we are
trying to do everything for them or take on their brokenness.
You know, Um, sometimes we have and I might be
going way. Of course You're sorry, keep going, keep going,
But you know that was like a big for me.
That was one of the biggest things in self care

(14:19):
was I do not have to take on everyone's load.
And it doesn't mean that I don't send them love,
it doesn't mean that I don't deeply want their healing.
I just also recognize that I am depriving myself when
I do that, and I'm depriving them. So just slowly,
just in small ways, I started giving myself that time back,

(14:41):
reclaiming my time right. I started giving that shout out. Yes,
I started, you know, um, just respectfully disengaging, you know,
like being detached from this like response to always fix people,
to always give them advice and sometimes just listen and

(15:03):
wish them well and then use that energy for myself. Um.
And I have no idea what the original questions, and
I hope that somewhat kind of you did. We were
talking about burnout and how you claim not. So I
was burned out from career, and then I was burned
out from being everybody's everything right, you know, And I

(15:24):
was like, well, this is not sustainable, especially not if
I want to have the life I've always dreamed of.
This is not This isn't going to get me there,
you know. Um, So just kinda And I said this
earlier meditation. It's that idea of just relinquishing control, just
surrendering even when you don't know how, you don't know
what to do, you know. And one of my most
broken moments in life, about five years ago, I was

(15:46):
in a significantly deep, deep, deep depression that I was
trying to claw my way out of. And you know,
every anybody that's living has experienced depression at some point
in their life, So it's not a feeling I had
never had before. At different moments in your life, you
have depression. It can last for an afternoon, it can
last for a year for some people much more, you know.

(16:08):
Um But this particular one was a mixture of a
depression from circumstances I couldn't control, and then also a
depression because I knew I wasn't being the best version
of me. For me, I knew that I needed to
have more in my life. I knew that I needed
to stretch to grow. So in that moment, instead of

(16:31):
focusing or being down on myself for being down, I
just said, I surrender. I surrender. And it started out
as a scream with like tears right like falling to
my knees and yelling at God. And it started out
being angry at him, you know, and just like, what
do you want? What do you want for me? What?

(16:54):
I'm a good person. I don't do bad stuff. I
treat people well, What the hell do you want from me?
You know? And then I started like releasing that energy.
And God's not gonna get mad at me because he
made me, so he knows I'm gonna get angry. And
then I started, you know, opening that up into I
give it away, I give it to you. I surrender,

(17:17):
and I started screaming, I surrender, and then it came
into the most resounding piece I've ever felt, and I
just said, m hmm, I surrender. That is powerful. And
from that moment on, I feel that very synchronistically, all
the tools I needed started coming to me really effortlessly.

(17:39):
I didn't have to search online. I didn't have to
do all of this research and study. You know, Um,
it all just started. I started paying attention to the
queues and it all just started coming my way, and
I just started saying, Okay, Okay, I'm gonna try that. Okay,
I'm gonna read that. Okay, I'm gonna do that. Okay,
I'm gonna open myself to this conversation happening right now.

(18:00):
Um yeah, So all of that is self care too.
But all of that, for me is what was really
the catalyst for my journey. And and just to me,
the best self care tool a person could ever have
is self inquiry. The best free thing you can ever
ever do for yourself is to just ask yourself questions

(18:21):
about how you feel. M that easy and then keep asking.
You know, your first response, you know, I'm angry. Why
are you angry because so and so did this? Is
that true? Well yeah they did that, Well, but is
that why you're angry? Well? Kind of what else you know?

(18:43):
And then you kind of end up going down this
rabbit hole where you're you know, just pulling the yarn.
You're pulling the string and it's slowly unraveling. And then
before you know it. You know, you remember something a
lie you told yourself when you were too because you
didn't know how to process life or experience at that time,
and you kept building upon that untrue thing, and then

(19:05):
you know, before you knew it, you were this grown
woman that had this secret feeling of not being worthy
or not being lovable. And it's all a lie, you know.
But you don't get to get to that truth until
you start getting real with yourself and asking yourself questions. Gems,
gems being dropped. I want to talk about something that

(19:26):
we talked about on the phone that you know, really
stuck with me. Um. You know, like you said to
your point about being a fixer, how much black women
take on? And you know, you said, black women are
the mules of the world, Like we do everybody's work,
We fix things for everyone. We are constantly putting everybody

(19:47):
before ourselves. And you know when you touched on it
a little bit with this idea of fixing, but just
this idea of taking on people's work and doing work
for others, how does that affect you know, women of
color specifically, and how much we take on and how
we find ourselves at these places where we eventually have

(20:08):
to surrender. Yeah. Oh, it's so madening, isn't it. Like
the thought like black women are the most oppressed people
in the world, Like when you really think of it,
bar for bar. You know, it's so interesting because when
Christina was talking previously about feeling that heart pain, right
and not taking care of herself. I think that so
many of us, like we have aches, we have pains,

(20:29):
and we don't get them looked at. You know, I've
been needing to go get something looked at for two years, right.
But on the flip side of that, like we have
such a because of all the generational trauma, because of
the current way the world works, because of the way
women in general are treated, we all have um such

(20:50):
a high threshold for pain, such a high threshold for
emotional pain and physical pain that goes on dealt with.
But then on the flip side of that, you have
these studies coming out, right, and people coming out with
the stats that black women die the most in hospitals
because doctors don't believe their pain. Like, like, imagine that

(21:12):
for a second. We speak our pain the least until
it becomes literally unbearable, and then when it's unbearable, it's
not believed. Right, Like, our existence as black women is
one of being gaslet constantly, oh my gosh, constantly in
relationships with our partners, right in family interactions, in the workspace,

(21:37):
walking outside. You know, like you're constantly being gas lit
to the point where you really don't know in my
in pain or not or right you start right, you
start second everything, it don't hurt, you know. Um. So
in something we talked on the phone, and I just

(21:57):
have to say, like, I loved our first meeting on
the phone so much because you just had so many
incredible thoughts and you said them in a way that
I was like, I had been thinking that but didn't
realize I had been thinking that, And it was like,
you know, like yeah, yeah, yeah, um but you know,
kind of what we talked about on the phone. And
I'm still wrapping my head around this. But as Black

(22:18):
women in wellness and as black women on spiritual journeys,
our work is always going to be different. It's not
going to line up with the very on trend surface
positivity that is in the world right now, that is
on Instagram right now. It can't and it sucks, But
we just have more work to do. We have more trauma,

(22:41):
and we have to be not not in a pitiful
kind of way. We just have to be cognizant of it,
you know, because it's also easy in this new purpose
positivity culture to feel less than because I don't know
my purpose or oh no, I had a bad thought,
so I'm not really positive like you're now. Now you're

(23:01):
comparing yourself in a space that's supposed to be about right.
Spiritual space is a very can be a very damaging
and very comparative space because it requires so much vulnerability
and transparency. Um, So we have to just be very
intentional about our healing in a way that maybe not

(23:23):
everyone has to be, which is unfortunate that we have
yet another thing to put on our shoulders, but that
is how we're going to have the biggest breakthroughs. So
sometimes we have to say to ourselves, we we just
have to be more deliberate with what our planet action
is going to be right, and also understand that it
is in the great words of the incredible Nipsey Hustle,

(23:43):
you know, it's a marathon. It's a marathon. We're in
it for the long run. Finding your purpose is very
literally the purpose of life, why we're here at all.
So if you didn't get it this year or by
thirty or by forty, well good it because you're alive,
like you still have never time, thank god, you know. Absolutely,

(24:06):
And it really drives me a little bit crazy when
people are always like, yeah, gir, I'll just find your purpose.
Well done what I'm here to do? Yes, So just
be really deliberate with our healing. So you know, we
might initially get a lurt in with the great positive

(24:27):
quote or you know, doing the yoga or doing meditation
um or doing some type of spiritual exercise, and then
it's like, okay, but now you gotta go a little
deeper because we don't just have ourselves to heal. We
have our ancestors and our to heal, and we have
our future generations to heal. And that was a big
thing for me. How do I not pass on all

(24:47):
the things that hurt me? How do I not give
that to my Yes? Absolutely, generational trauma is real. Absolutely,
And I love what you're saying about, just like wellness
looks different for us, and I don't know that that
message is often communicated, right, you know, And I love
you're touching on this so much. I'd love to dig
into it more. Social media, you know, can really bog

(25:11):
down a space and the wellness basic especially um you
know the fact that there are billions of hashtag blessed,
hashtag positivity or whatever it is. There's a lot of buzzwords, right,
There's a lot of sexy terms, cute pictures, beautiful quote
y'all know, y'all see them. You get on and it's like, oh,
double tap, this is I should be feeling this way.

(25:33):
But as black women, as women of color, we're dealing
with different things. Wellness looks differently for us, differently for us,
and I think social media can really um can can
skew that, and and can skew what we see in
other people. We can see we can become about comparison

(25:54):
rather than about being inquisitive, like you said about yourself.
How do you combat that? How do you combat constantly
being bombarded with everybody's highlight reel? Social media is everyone's
highlight real. So what do you do when you're constantly
bombarded with everyone's highlight reel and you're working through your

(26:18):
own stuff, but you're existing in this world where social
media is important. I can't sit here and pretend like
it isn't. How how do you find a balance? Um?
So me personally, I'm in a place right now in
my life where nothing anybody else is doing shakes me
or makes me question myself or makes me not feel good,

(26:39):
because I just also have the understanding that what's for
me is for me as long as I'm giving life
my best effort. So then I check in with myself.
Am I giving life my best effort and the answer
is yes, I'm not going to feel comparative If the
answer is no. I need to look at me. I
need to look at what am I not nourishing in me?

(27:00):
What am I not recognizing me? What am I not
trying hard enough that? Where am I not working enough?
You know? Because I think any anything that we feel
about another person, good or bad, is always a projection
of how we feel about ourselves and how we see
the world. Always. Always anybody here that looks at me

(27:20):
and thinks, wow, she looks like a great person because
you're a great person. It's because the light in me
reminds you of the light you have in yourself. That's it,
you know, if you're looking at me and thinking, you know,
oh she looks like X, Y, and Z. That's also
how you see the world from a negative standpoint, and
maybe you feel judged, so you feel the need to
put forth the judgment. All of it is okay because

(27:42):
none of it has anything to do with me. So
I'm not going to take it on. If you like
me awesome, if you don't awesome, I like me, you know.
So that's kind of how I feel about, you know,
the conversations around being comparative. Everyone's heard of this quote.
Comparison is the thief of joy. I don't want to
for anymore in my life than I have to a

(28:03):
lot of things are going to be thrown my way
that I do not ask for that are going to
be very challenging. Do I want to also give myself
daily doses at that I don't want to suffer? And
so you know, when I kind of look at you know,
if I do feel a tension, that right, I go
through the process. I just explained um, and I say, well,
am I giving life my best? I'm always going to

(28:27):
find a way to stop feeling that way through asking
that question. But then also it's like, you know, that
is for that person, and that's okay because I am
who I am, and I'm going to get lead where
I'm supposed to be. We don't have to be angry
at people for having things or getting things or looking

(28:47):
like they have it all together. Stop comparing in general,
whether that person is doing well in life or whether
they're doing bad in life. How you feel about yourself.
Shouldn't it be swayed either way based on that. We
shouldn't get a little pet when we see that someone
else has been chicked or doesn't have it as together
as they made it. See, why would that make you
feel good? And in the same way, if somebody is

(29:11):
living their best life, why should that make me feel upset?
I think the real thing is to just let's not
compare at all, and let's always just seek with it.
Let's always just take that moment to take a breath.
We're human. We're gonna feel it. We're gonna feel jealousy.
It's a natural trait, you know. But when we do,
don't let it stay there. Take a breath and try

(29:33):
to work through the thought. You know, if you have
a negative thought, really spent some time to try to
work through that so you don't carry it and you
help change your perspective, and then it becomes effortless. I
want to talk about grief and trauma. And we talked
about this a bit on the phone, and and as
you've said today, is we we carry so much trauma.

(29:56):
We carry generational trauma, we carry our ancestors energy, um,
and we deal with grief differently. And we talked a
bit about your friendship with the Great Nipsey Hustle and
how his death. I'm sorry now I'm not I'm gonna girl,
I do his death affected us so differently. It just

(30:17):
hit everybody. People who did not know him said, it
hits so differently. As a friend of his, why do
you think that is take your time for no, no,
please take your time. So really new at be for Nipsey,

(30:53):
at least speaking for myself. What was really difficult? Does
he see someone who is being the best version of themselves, right,
like giving of themselves, learning, growing, like positively impacting people's lives.

(31:15):
And I think for Nipsey it was the cruelty of
the way that he passed that makes it difficult, you know, Um.
I think also were the exact same age. You know,
we met when we were in our early twenties and
maintained a friendship throughout the years, and so it also
calls into question your own mortality, right, like your own
understanding of this life cycle. But violent deaths are very difficult. Um,

(31:41):
They're really as deep of a faith as you may have.
It's really difficult to wrap your mind around someone else
having the power to take a life and being sanctioned
by God, you know. Um, he was such a good man,
such an inspiring person, and the thought of him the

(32:04):
world being robbed of him at the hands of someone
who had hate for him, it's just really hard to grasp,
you know. And I think that that's what really hit
a lot of people, like you know, you see, you
just see somebody given life their best, you know, which
is and and we have come to think that when
we do that will be absolved of having challenges and

(32:28):
will be absolved of having issues. And so when something
like that happens, it really questions, you know. And maybe
and I can be completely speaking for myself right now,
but you know, for the past couple of weeks, I
have had a real, real reckoning with my faith and
what I believe in my belief system and how I

(32:48):
believe it right, um, and that's part of like my process.
Like when I was a young person and I heard
the Golden the golden rule, you know, do onto others
as you'd have done onto you, I thought it was
the most beautiful thing I've ever heard, where I was like, ah,
of course that's how to live, right, But you're not
guaranteed reciprocity in that right. It's just saying do that,

(33:09):
but it's not saying do that that it will be
done onto you, you know. And that was kind of
heartbreaking when I first realized that, because I kind of
thought that there was like some semblance of sadness and life,
you know. Um, so a big challenge in our journey.
And some of this is like I mean, you know,

(33:31):
this is like Dalai Lama stature understanding. So I'm just
gonna say it and know that I'm grappling with it myself.
The real thing to deepen our spiritual understanding is to
understand that there is no good or bad and be
in full acceptance of every single thing that comes our way,
which does not mean to be in agreement with it

(33:54):
or to like it. That's preference based, but we have
to accept every thing and find a way to self
nurture on our own. You know that the doing onto
others as you'd have done onto you is for you.
It's because that's the quality of person you want to be,
that's the type of energy you want to carry. But

(34:16):
you also have to be in full alignment with the
fact that you are not being promised that you will
be treated well, that you will be treated with love,
that you will be treated fairly. That's a really hard
lesson to grapple with, right, Like it's really and it'll
be called into question time and time again. Like the
last five years, I was standing fully in that understanding,

(34:37):
right like I don't I don't take anything personally. I
don't get aside from maybe getting cut off in traffic
if I got my kid in the car, I'm not
getting mad about anything. Like I can't think of the
last time I got angry or stressed out or like,
it's just not how I operate right now, Which is
not to say that terrible stuff doesn't happen sometimes, right terrible, um,

(35:01):
but now you know, I found in the last two
to three weeks that I am having to really relearn
that understanding because something has come up for me that
I can't wrap my head around with yeah, you know. Um,
so when it comes to grieving, I say all that
to say it is okay not to know what the
hell to do. You know. That's how I am right now.

(35:23):
I am not in a place in this moment to
say that, you know, um, God does everything for a
reason or I understand, or it was for the greater good.
Like it's not how I feel. I do feel like
this was a glitch of matrix. You know, I do
feel like she should not be dead. Um, But I'm

(35:45):
staying open to the fact that there are so many
things I don't know and understand yet, you know. So
I'm not angry at God. I don't agree right now,
but I'm staying open to him showing me a better
understanding for how life works that I don't yet know.
That's so beautiful and so honest. Um, And thank you,

(36:12):
thank you, because that's kind of leads me to my
next question. Sorry, oh you really thank you in the journey,
right in the up and down and the fact that
it's not always going to be perfect, and that you know,
you've told us so much about about your journey and
about how where you've come from, and even saying you

(36:35):
know there's not a lot that you let stress you
out or that you like get you angry, but the
fact that it's not every single day isn't the highest
of highs um. And I do think that for me,
and I don't know if this happens to anybody else,
but for me, one thing I struggle with with wellness
is like feeling like I'm almost not allowed to have

(36:55):
bad days, feeling like, you know, I've achieved this wellness
and so or I've achieved this state of mind and
I have to be there all the time, and I
have to And you've talked about a lot, especially working
in media, you have to be on, you have to
you know, be ready, and you're oftentimes I don't know
if y'all heard, I worked at ESPN. I was in
a lot of rooms with a lot of white men

(37:16):
all the time, and you have to be you have
to be this person that you don't always feel like
you are. UM And I you're very you're being very
honest about the fact that like it doesn't have to
be every day, doesn't have to look like that. UM.
I'd love for you to expand on that a little

(37:37):
bit more about just like how do you maintain your
peace of mind while also just riding the waves of
the ups and downs. I think it's also just being
an acceptance of what the reality of being a human
being on earth is. There will never, for any reason
be what we deem to be perfect. A lot of

(38:00):
what society has taught us is an actually direct contrast
with the way natural law actually works. Right with the
understanding of day tonight sells regenerating life to death, you know, um,
needing to feed on other things, you know, to keep nourishment.
And there's so much about, specifically in America, the way

(38:24):
that we have taught people to feel about themselves and
to understand about the world that is just truly not
in alignment with actually what I believe to be the
reason God put us here. I believe God put us
hereous souls and his spirits to remember who we are
in circumstances, to remember Him in circumstances, to have the

(38:46):
experience of being in a very imperfect place and still
be connected to who we are and what our sacred
energy is. So with that understanding, you know that thing
ever will be fair, nothing ever will be perfect um.

(39:07):
And there's so much freedom in that because when you
take away that expectation, when you take away the feeling
of being less than if it's not this, you open
yourself up to just accept things as they're happening and
to choose your responses to them. Um. In the first
episode of my podcast, a dear friend of mine worded

(39:28):
it perfectly. He said, you know, he he experienced. He
grew up in Uganda during the genocide right under dam
means regime. He's the only living member of his family,
every single member of his family, his parents, his siblings,
his parents, siblings, and each of his parents had like
ten siblings. There there's no one, there's no one but him,

(39:51):
right Can you imagine walking around every day with that
depth of sorrow like that? Like it's not even conceivable,
Like right now, we couldn't even try to put ourselves
into the mind frame of what that would feel like.
It's not conceivable. But he is the most joyous, kind, brilliant,

(40:12):
wonderful human soul I've ever met. And I asked him,
how do you manage to be so kind with a
life filled with unbelievable hardship, you know? Um? And something
he said was really beautiful. He said, he wakes up
every day and dedicates the day to one of his
ancestors and that brings him a lot of strength. Um.

(40:34):
He also said, it's not that I don't feel the feelings.
It's just I don't let them stay. I allow them
to visit for the night, but they don't get to stay.
Oh my gosh, I need to write that down and
that and that's really how I look at my own
day to day. Your life will absolutely never be without challenge,

(40:57):
a hardship. Sorry to break it to you, it won't.
You can live your best life. You can read every book,
you can meditate every day, do yoga, you can do
all the therapy in the world. Right. It's helping you
learn how to better heal and serve yourself. But it
is not telling you that once you reach a certain point,

(41:17):
you won't have to go through anything. It's just not
how it works. We're living in a world with many
broken people. That we're in a school, right and you
may be in a graduate program, but that person is
in kindergarten. But we all got to live together and
we all got to study together, you know. But so
in that, in that understanding, when you have the freedom

(41:38):
of that, you can allow yourself to feel things you're
human being, sit in it. I didn't get out of
bed for days after nipcy that I cried every single
day for the past couple of weeks. And that's okay,
that's a moment. I'm not gonna live in it, though
I do understand at this point, even if I don't
understand it, think it's right, think it's fair, Even if

(41:59):
it hurt, it's me. I still have to move forward
in my own life. I still have to choose to
make the best choices for me, and like you know,
another another great way to kind of be on this
well in this journey and really navigate you're not good days.
It's just understanding life is all about your personal best,

(42:20):
which from day to day is going to be different,
which from person a person is going to be different. Right,
But are you making the most serving choices for yourself
to the best of your ability given your life history
right now? That could mean you woke up, That could
mean you walked outside. That could mean you are, you know,

(42:41):
doing doing the mantras every morning, doing affirmations doing it?
Could you know? It could mean whatever it means for
you in that moment um. So that's how I self
check and navigate. Am I doing the best I am
able in this moment. If the answer is yes, okay,
then fine, this will pass. If the answer is no,

(43:02):
what can I change? Because I don't want to cause
my own suffering. So that honesty though, right, because when
you're asking that yourself, that question, you have to be
able to be honest with yourself. Because there are times
where I'm asking where I know I'm not doing the
best right, but I'm like, shoot, right, I'm gonna well,
you know, and I'm there are definitely days where I
know I'm not at you know, you know, and I'm

(43:26):
just tired. But I'm going to tell myself I'm doing
the best, even when that's not true. And and sometimes
that's a that's a defense mechanism, and sometimes that's just
me hiding from my own self. But how do you
push yourself to be honest with yourself. It's a practice,
It's something that you have to learn. We spend our
lifetimes denying ourselves. We spend our lifetimes lying to ourselves

(43:50):
about our feelings about many things, all the time, staying
stuck in certain relationships, staying at a job you don't like,
having to smile when you want to cry, Like, our
whole life is based around a lot of self denial
and a lot of intuitive repression. You know. Um So,
it's gonna take practice. This isn't gonna happen overnight, you know,
you and you have to be really gentle with yourself
and the understanding that everything that you're cultivating it's the

(44:14):
in practice type of thing. You know. It's you don't
work out one time and have a six pack, you know, like,
you gotta keep going, you gotta keep doing it. Um So,
it's just really it's finding the comfort and standing in
your truth. It's knowing that even your worst behavior doesn't
make you unworthy. Even the worst thing you've ever done

(44:36):
does not define what the value of your life is
or what the purpose of your life is, especially if
you choose to think another thought and to be another
way and to behave differently you know, um suggest Like,
really it's about extending self compassion and slowly being as
honest with yourself as you can, and then also acknowledging

(45:00):
if you're not I'm choosing to lie to myself right now,
because even that teaches you honesty. You know, if you
can say I know that this is not the best decision.
I know I'm not being honest about with myself about
how I feel, But in this moment, I'm going to
choose to lie. Even that recognition is honesty, and that

(45:21):
will slowly show you how to start being more real
and honest and in alignment with who you are. Right,
I'm over here losing track of time. Do we have time?
Because some questions? I just want to we do okay,
because I'm Chasina. I will be up here all day
like there will be no other sessions if you just
let okay, perfect, okay, great, okay, let's take some questions. Questions, questions. Oh,

(45:48):
thank you deel with being in a relationship with solf career.
That is a great question. Yeah, um, well that's that's
like you read my mind question for me too. Well.

(46:12):
At first I wanted a divorce. At first, I wanted
to run. At first, I wanted to not have to
take care of anybody and their issues, you know, and
I just wanted to be with myself and work on myself. Um,
when you're kind of especially when you're in that really
restless place, in that bird out place where you have

(46:34):
just reached your limit, it really is important to give
yourself space and time, you know. Around that time, Luckily
I had some vacation time start up at work. I
was able to just disappear for a couple of weeks.
You know. I did a mini eat, pray, love. You know.
I found much like what everyone is doing here, I
went on a retreat. You know, I went on a retreat.
It was most of it in silence, and I just

(46:56):
focused on myself, you know. And you know, my husband
and I have really really transparent conversations, and um. At
that time, it was really difficult because he especially wasn't
on the spiritual journey he is on now. So it
was a lot of defensiveness. It was a lot of

(47:17):
really not understanding and then saying, okay, I understand, but
I still need you to do all this for me
and be my support system it is, you know, um.
And it was really just me saying, all right, well,
this is gonna be a challenging time and it's gonna
be an uncomfortable time, and just sitting in that honest
truth of knowing, well, this is gonna be the moment

(47:37):
of my life that's titled rough, you know, um, and
just and just still choosing to stand in it. Um.
So that's really you know, ideally we were all so
much younger. But you know, ideally, whoever you're in a
relationship with, ideally you can have transparent conversations with and
and you can let them know that I need some

(47:58):
things from me right now. And this has nothing to
do with you. This is not a reflection of how
you make me feel. This is not a reflection of
what you are doing or not doing. All of this
is one thousand percent about me, and I just need
to tap into that, um. And you know, as life
would happen. If that doesn't, if you have a partner
that is not acknowledging of that in any way or

(48:21):
even open to understand anymore, might not be the most
serving relationship for your life. Great question question in the back.
Good morning, good morning. You talk a little bit about
being a fixer. Um. You know we have that Olivia Pope. Yeah,
I know, walk Blue purpose. You're fixing everything, you know,

(48:42):
I interntacting this product. Warner is asking you that they
like the Olivia pol Y office. You think anything sorre
be all of this stuff. You know, the inside you're like,
oh my god, I don't want anything to break because
it's attah to mind exact nature. So can you talk

(49:03):
about navigating the Olivio Pope fixtures who are active American
women as we're climbing the core later we want to
show up well, we want yes. So this is it's
a lot to unpack because this is hundreds of years

(49:25):
of forced burden that we have been trained to take on.
So a lot of the things that we think, well,
this is just how I am, I've always been this way.
It's also a lot of generational um, not generational excuse me,
genetic trauma that has been implanted in us um. So

(49:45):
I say all that to say it's going to be
a process um. In the work world, it's a little
bit different because when you do have things tied to
your name or tied to your brand, you want them
done well. Um and so there are you know, that
is a very beneficial trait to have in business. It's
just important to really check in with yourself and no
one is too much and allow people space to fail,

(50:07):
especially as long as it's not affecting your bottom line
at work, like you know, like give them give them
space to fail and figure out their own answers. A
little bit there I wish we had more time, because
there's this great exercise, UM that I've done that choosing
to be in the space of being an observer instead
of a fixer. The first few times I did this,
it was really really challenging, UM. But basically it's like,

(50:29):
you would sit and maybe you guys can do this
on a break later. You would sit with another person,
right and they would be allowed to talk about whatever
they want to talk about, and you do not interject
at all. You don't make facial expressions right like. You
don't you don't confirm deny, you know, for everyone's reactions hard.

(50:54):
You don't offer input, not even with a glance like
or or you know, not even with a with nothing.
You just kind of sit there and you don't allow
any of it to take on. But you're creating this
beautiful space for someone else to fully be themselves. What
you'll find in that. The first wee time I did that,
I was like, just do this. I was just like,

(51:15):
oh my god, I can't wait to this over so
I can tell her if she just does X, Y
and Z, now how they'll fix it. But if you
just let them go and you don't say anything, you
just said love and create a safe space, and and
you know and and like at works, you can say,
you you know how to do this, You've got this,
you know how this works, so try and then I'll

(51:36):
circle back with you, you know, um, because that also
helps them grow as employees, right like and hopefully get
out of that. But when you'll find when you're being
in this like nurture neutral observer role is by the
time the person is done talking safe ten fifteen minutes,
they have pretty much talked themselves into a solution. Because

(51:57):
we all inherently know what the hell to do anyway,
we really do. We're just so disconnected from our own
intuitive powers because of so many years of self denial
and of wanting to manifest the opposite even when we
know better. You know, um, But we all have all
the tools we need inherently inside of us. And so

(52:17):
by the end of talking, it's like, well, but I
really know it's because of this or I should have
done this right. So imagine we spend our whole lives
not letting that person get to that moment. They're never
gonna learn how to be on their own journey. You know,
it's not just our journeys. That are important. It's honoring
and understanding that other people have them too. And you
can have great intentions because sometimes we'll say as fixer personalities,

(52:41):
as the family therapist, you know, sometimes we'll say, but
I just don't want them to be in pain. I
just don't want them to hurt. Pain his life. Hurting
is part of life. We're all here because we've been
hurt in some way, right, Like, we all get to
the best version of ourselves because we chose to walk
through pain. We chose to set ourselves on fire, you know,

(53:04):
So why would we take someone else? Is ability to
do that away? You know, it's it's okay to hurt.
It sucks, it's not ideal, it's not how I want
to live my best life, you know. Um. But it
will happen to each of us and it's okay, um,
And it teaches us. Pain teaches us so much if

(53:24):
we let it. Pain is really the candle, you know.
The darkness is really truly the light for you. We
just have to let it be, you know. We have
to really work to try to stay open in all
moments and extend that same ability for the people that
we know by not taking everything on do we have

(53:45):
time for one more question. Okay, I see right here.
Thanks actually want to give a little this morning as well,
like you had us an invitation continue who Yeah, and
as someone who mystacusiness verson talk about you know my

(54:06):
kind of like I'm not a my foremother but olarious
like the first instance were like, let's get it that.
It's like, okay, I'm not I'm not a world like
it's getting with it, and so I think we're all
of us. I can imagine being black women who are
indoctrinated is to always be something for someone else. We
don't know who who we are. So I was just

(54:28):
curious as that because I struggled with it. But tips
you have as far as like getting this a dig
deeper ourselves that question and can figure out how to
answer it before we let the outside world answer it.
For yeah, such a good question. Oh it's a lot um.

(54:48):
So for me, what was really important was in asking
myself that question, right who am I? And not allowing
myself to fill that space with an answer and not
knowing what the hell that meant um and just doing
it repetitively, repetitively, slowly just created more space than me
to discover the stillness of who I am. And I'm

(55:12):
hoping I'm making sense because it's going to sound so
overly simplified, right, Like, there's not if I never did
anything that anyone knew about. Ever again, right, if I
wasn't needed by my family, I would still exist, I
would still have value, I would still have worth, you know, um.

(55:34):
And it's trying to find your way back to that
space where you have happiness and peace that is not
reliant on having a thriving career or on being needed
by the people in your household. And it's not to
say that you can't have a wildly successful life, make
lots of money, have very loving relationships with the people

(55:55):
in your life. It's just saying that with or without
those things, you are enough. You love and enjoy who
you are, you know, and that is a process, and
I unfortunately I can't explain it, I think in better terms,
because it really is just a feeling an expression that

(56:16):
you eventually get to in transitioning careers. For myself, I
thought a lot about that, right Like, I went from
being working in media, I worked from l A. I
worked in l A, I worked in New York, I
worked in Texas. UM. I had achieved in my field,
a lot of success I had, you know, I was
a mentor to a lot of people in my field.

(56:36):
At certain points, I was an executive in my field.
I hired people. I you know, I really worked in
such a collaborative nature, and that is part of my magic, right,
like being in groups as part of the magic of
who I am, brainstorming, pulling things out of people. So
when I decided to take a different step and work

(56:58):
more as an entrepreneur and bill of the business, well
the business wasn't It's not highly successful at first. I
don't have employees. It's just me, right, it's me isolated
most of the time working on a computer. Um And
that was a big change for me because I was
no longer accessing facets of my personality that I really enjoyed,
and that also fed my ego, you know, like getting

(57:21):
validation feels good, getting told by your boss that you're
brilliant and you're getting a raise and you're the best
they've ever seen. Like what I love that. I love
those birds, you know, and so that like that deep
in my understanding of what I just explained to you too,
It's like Okay, I don't have that in my life
right now. I'm not having those experiences, but obviously I'm

(57:44):
still all those things because if I once was, I
still am. So all of that still, all of that
charm ability, excellence, all of those things that people see
in me when I'm in a crowd at work still
live right here and they're still with me. But just
because they're not being like fond over and celebrated, doesn't
mean that I'm still not the ship, you know, like

(58:06):
it doesn't mean that I'm still not, you know, having
all of this greatness in my side and inside of
myself to give. So that helped me deeper understand my
personal purpose as well and my personal worth as well.
You know, I kind of identify um, and I know
we've got to go, but I kind of identify My
purpose is to help people heal. My purpose is to
be of service to other people. With the inherent gifts

(58:29):
that God gave to me, I can do anything and
still be in my purpose. I can be on TV,
I can be on the radio talking to listeners. I
can be working in the wellness space. I can be
teaching a meditation class. I can be flipping fries and
still get off the essence of who I am and
what my purpose is. UM. So I hope that answered

(58:50):
kind of okay. I just I want to say how
much how powerful the questions were, um, because it's so
interesting hearing people ask questions and then you yourself in
that right and you realize that you're not alone, like
all three of those questions really, Like I was like, well,
then I should have asked that question. I have that
same question like that. It's and so it's so powerful

(59:11):
to just feel like there are other people who are
going through what you're going through or who see you.
And I know Christina said this last night. Just being
in a room of people who say I see you, sis,
like that is just such a powerful thing. And Debbie,
thank you so much. This was an incredible conversation. I'm like,
I feel like we had everybody in the room on

(59:31):
our phone conversation. Thank you for being you, thank you
for bringing your truth honest self, thank you for giving
us a very room conversation about wellness, and and you
have made my day and I hope everybody else is
so thank you so much for being here, and thank
you so much, and thank you because you are such
a dynamic and amazing woman, and you are sharing our

(59:53):
stories with the world and so many different mediums, and
you're bringing the fullness of yourself in every room that
you're inso in front of demographics of people, and that
allows other people that look like us to do the
exact same. So thank you so so much. Thank you, Rod,
thank you listening, Thank you as big, thank you for

(01:00:14):
listening to this episode of The Dropping Gem's podcast. This
show is executive produced by Adrian Scott and me Debbie Brown.
Our theme music was created by producer Day One and
the poem that you heard at the beginning of the show,
well that was created especially for us by award winning
poet Nambie Okaford. If you have a quick moment right now,
please hit subscribe on the show and if you like

(01:00:35):
what you heard, take it a step further and give
us a five star rating. Until next time you connect
with me on I g at Debbie Brown or my
website Debbie Brown dot com. Be blessed,