October 16, 2025 • 49 mins
We sat down with Pierre Goudiaby Atepa, the legendary architect behind the African Renaissance Monument — Africa’s tallest statue — to talk about his vision for the continent’s future, the state of African politics, and what true economic independence means for the next generation. 🌍
From the symbolism of the monument towering over Dakar to his candid thoughts on Africa’s unity and leadership, this is one of the most powerful conversations we’ve had on the continent.
🎥 Watch now and join the conversation about Africa’s past, present, and future.
#Africa #Senegal #PierreAtepa #AfricanRenaissanceMonument #EarnYourLeisure #EYL #BlackExcellence #AfricanArchitecture #Dakar #InvestInAfrica #EconomicEmpowerment #FutureOfAfrica #AfricanUnity
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Accomplishments. Congratulations, thank you. Oh you know your accomplish myself.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Yeah, we just I was going interested in just to
see Ay, which she does.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
That's amazing. With an intermiss to other things that you
that you did itself. What made you get in honest
actually away with that career a.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Joining one whatever measured in uh engineering and architecture both.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
I'm an engineer as well.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
So but before I get to that, I think the
most important thing, one of the most important things in
my little life here, is that when I graduated, I
came back. I came back for two reasons. The reason
number one was that I benefited from a scholarship and
(00:51):
I thought I have to give it back because America
didn't give me the scholarship for myself.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
They gave it to.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Me so that when I get the education I wanted
to have, I can come back and help my people
and help Africa. And this lesson is very interesting because
(01:20):
at trancelaer Wish, as you may know, is one of
the biggest engineering schools in America. As a matter of fact,
back in nineteen sixty eight when I was there, not
many black folks because it was very expensive. So if
(01:45):
I have that opportunity of having an education, higher education
in social institution. I thought I should come back because
it was not the money of my parents, it was
a scholarship. I'm not trying to give a lesson to anybody.
(02:07):
I'm just trying to say, listen, sometimes you're even much
better off coming back because there's so many opportunities in Africa.
You cannot imagine if I had stayed in America. I
was in the same school and the same class with
(02:29):
the architect of Bill Gates. His name was John but
he passed away about five years back. He was the
architect of Bill Gates, but he was not better off
than me here. So what I'm saying is that I
(02:51):
want people who benefited from a scholarship, and even if
you didn't benefit from a scholarship, if you are African,
please see what you can do. Of course, the good
news is that today with the technology, you don't need
to be physically back and this is why I appreciate
(03:15):
what you people are doing with technology today. You can
stay there, but just be interested in what is going
on in Africa. Business is booming and with the experience
you people have there, it's very interesting for you to
(03:40):
come back, not physically, but to come back and see
what you can do. And this is why again congratulations
for what you're doing to try to break things.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
That's very important.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
And again days back, yes you have to physically to
do things, but today again you can stay there, come
from time to time, but get interested in the development
of Africa. And if you do that, success is on
(04:19):
the way. You have to grab it and you have
to work very hard for it because our folks are
very difficult to work with. But if you have the
experience there well, and if you have people who can
open doors like our good self here, things can be
very very interesting.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Last night we got to witness obviously the Renaissance Monument,
which is extremely impressive. I think equally as impressive as
the amount of people that wanted to come speak to you.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
And it talks about.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
The level of relationships that you have across the continent.
How has that been over the course of your career
as an architect and just as a person here in
Senegal and Africa.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Well, of course, you see, the road is not.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Easy to build up a strong reputation takes.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
A lot of work, let's put it like that.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Because you are in an environment where it's easier to
go through. Not to follow the rules, it's easier. I've
always thought that I should be straight and clear. This
(05:50):
is why you don't see in a worlds. If you
do that, and you do things the way you think
they should be done, if you have your conscience clear,
you're not playing no games. Success is at the end
(06:12):
of the road or along the road, and at the
end of the road. So to build up that reputation,
it's easy and difficult. Again, it's easy because you just
(06:32):
have to do everything not to break the rules. Especially
in business. Most people think that, well they want to.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Take a short cut.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
There's no shortcut in good business, especially in Africa. So yes,
I was fortunate enough to have taken that path. Because
(07:08):
the environment is not always in your favor. Pressure is here.
People don't want to think ahead. They just think for tomorrow.
And this is one of the problems I have personally
because I try to have a vision. But if you
(07:32):
have a vision with people who don't have vision, you.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Have a problem.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
You see the place where we were yesterday, we were
so criticized. They're almost through stones to me because they
didn't understand.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Now, what was the criticism about.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Well, you see, this is a very religious country. They
are Muslims, and in their religion they don't always accept
sculptures of people portraying people. You can portray a horse
(08:17):
or whatever, but people, it's very difficult.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Some of them accepted sometimes, and I was, I don't
know if you understood the.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Story that I told yesterday, explaining that when we finished
building the monument, since.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
The lady was a little denuded here.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
They started making problems. And then the president asked me,
can we cover that?
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Yessolutely?
Speaker 3 (08:53):
I say yes, but it will cost a million dollars
a million plus.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
A million and a half. He says, a million, and
I have just for that cloth.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
I said yes. He said, okay, let's make it small.
I say, it's worse because it would be what we
call becho you know, that's what ladies were at night.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
So again you have to fight incomprehension when you look ahead.
So how do you get to buy it from the
people to accept it? Well?
Speaker 3 (09:27):
No, Actually, if you are if you know that what
you're doing is right, just be patient. Time will do
the rest. And that's what happens. And today, including the big,
the big religious chiefs, they all accept not only do
they accept if this monument was not here, you come
(09:47):
to the car, what do you see?
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Almost nothing? So if in your mind you know that
this is good, go ahead and do it right now.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
The the biggest project I have is what is probably
building the new city, the new capital city of Gabon
called Liberville too. But along that, what I think is
my thank you, thank you, thank you. But what I
think now is that we are doing what we call
(10:26):
the new roads, the new steel and aluminum roads. What
is it, Bob, let's not talk.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
It didn't tell you.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
What when we talk about the new steel and aluminum roads?
Speaker 1 (10:45):
What is that?
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Everybody knows that Europe has developed because of the steel
industry still and core. Now everybody also knows that most
of the raw material to make steel and aluminum come
from Africa. Now, the story goes that today if you
(11:20):
trace the road of steel, they take the raw material.
Let's say in Peppell here in Sira le One, it
makes twenty thousand kilometers to go to China to be
transformed and another twenty thousand kilometers to come back to
(11:44):
Africa to be distributed. If you take aluminum, the raw
material of aluminum is called box site box site comes
from our neighbors, from Guinea most of it. Of course,
Guinea can agree from the port of cancer twenty thousand
(12:08):
kilometers to go another twenty two comes makes it eighty
thousand kilometers. We want to reduce this into one point
two kilometers eighty thousand, one point two.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
How because we discovered oil.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
And gas in Senegal and in a radius of less
than one thousand kilometers, we have more than twenty seven
billion tons of iron ore. Twenty seven billion tons of
(12:51):
iron ore. If you would with the energy that we
discovered in Senegal instead of just selling the energy, when
you sell the energy, when you sell the gas, it
amounts it accounts for one point five, maybe less, maybe more.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Dollars a cubic meter.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
If you would take thirty cubic meters and buy two
tons of iron ore for two hundred dollars two hundred
plus fifty, it's two hundred and fifty.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Dollars, you would come up with a rout.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Of steel worth one thousand, two hundred and fifty dollars.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
And that's the challenge. So you will be not only
will you.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Be doing that, but you will reduce Because Pepel is
just eight hundred kilometers from so the forty thousandometers going
back and forth is reduced to eighty eight hundred and fifty.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Kilometers one straight path. Yes, well you go by the ocean.
It's not straight. You go by the ocean.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
And this is why we want to create what we
call the Atlantic Africa Steel and Aluminum Alliance, because we
want to put these countries together along the Atlantic, because
you don't want to get inside inland because of infrastructures
that are not developed.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
But boats.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Can just go from Peppel to the port of the car,
can go from Cancer to the port of the Car.
And we want to put build a new port in
Nikin in the south of Senegal, in Casamos, which is
just three hundred kilometers from where most of the iron
(15:04):
or the aluminum ore which is box side comes from.
Three hundred kilometers instead of twenty thousand and twenty thousand back.
Because we are preparing for Zlecka Sleeka is the new
African Continental Commander on care what well, you said, Well,
(15:34):
in English we say Lequa.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Zone deliberation. So we are preparing for that.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
But if you want to prepare for that, you have
to think about things that you may not.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
See yourself, but that's not important. That's building the future.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
When you're building the future, you don't think about itself.
I will not be here when it starts.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
We have to build it. Have you seen like you said,
you have to have vision.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
We've been to a few countries and it seems like
the vision is starting to become clearer as younger people
come into power. Have you seen a shift in how
people are looking at the future of unification, at least
in West Africa?
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Yes, of course. You see. The story goes that these
new people who took power.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
In Senega, I sponsored them.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
And I had a big fight with the president.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
But why did I sponsor them? Because they had a vision,
they have faith, They wanted to fight corruption. You see,
we work hard to get everything. You can see. I
don't asleep. I work very hard. Right pass seventy eight,
(17:05):
I'm still working. But you have these civil servants. After
one year, they have more money than me. This is
what's blocking Africa. Corruption was too hide And if I
sponsored these young people, it's because they wanted to go
just as what you said.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
They want things to go straight.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
They want to develop the country instead of developing their
own wealth.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
As civil servants.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
And they did not give the guidance that we needed.
So again I think that things are changing. Sometimes, of
course people don't know.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
How to change things.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
They make cous well, sometimes the cous are positive. If
you take Jerry Rowlings to talk about his very beautiful
country in Ghana, this gentleman, if he didn't do the
coup and took out all these generals who was just
(18:13):
taking the wealth of the people, Ghana wouldn't be where
it is today. And we hope that these people will
just do the same. They will change things so that
everybody can profit, can get advantage of the wealth of
(18:34):
the country. But to do that, again, you have to
have a vision and you have to know what you're
talking about. And this our vision here is yes, we
want to make Africa great again.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
And if you have that in your mind.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
If you do everything in the books to get there,
honestly by telling the truth, but by working hard and
setting the clocks right, successes at the end.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
I'm looking at Donald Trump.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
He's not that negative, you know, He's I think that
if he succeeds this week, even I would vote for
him to have the the nobel of his prize.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Could share.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
Maybe in Africa, civilization that we can look back to
as as young African. That makes us for what we
have and many when we lostation.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Well you see, do you know that the richest man
ever because Americas, you know, when you trab with Americans
talk about money or welfare.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
The wealthiest person ever.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Was an Africa m who.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yes, he was the richest man ever.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
If you compare his wealth to Ellen Musk, it's nothing.
Ellen moscow wealth is just maybe one third one fifth
of what he had. And at that time Africa was great.
You've seen Tumbuktu, You've seen what was written by our ancestors.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Shanta Job who was a very good friend, big brother.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Yes, he was a very very very good friend of mine,
big brother, big brother, Shaikh Levopolicy are saying all and
all those we had great people. But then again it's
corruption that brought us back. If you have to take
(21:13):
a single thing, it's that, that's it.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
But things are improving.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
But again, these people who made cools sometimes they don't
know how to go about it. They made a cool
they have the power. Well they are not well, I
don't want to say educated. Most of them have limits,
but they wanted to do good Now the question is
(21:41):
what do we do today to make them do good?
And this is where the role of the diaspora is
very important because you know what progress is, you know
what to do to go ahead, which most of our people,
(22:03):
our leaders don't.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
So again, the road.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Is not easy, but if you do it the way,
you should success.
Speaker 5 (22:17):
That Ye, the Renaissance as an African seeing that coming
into synagogue given them I'm just next door from Ghana,
that really inspired me because when you travel the world,
you shall a lot of monuments and you hardly say
anything that is, you know, African. Is there a coalition
(22:37):
of African architects that come together. Is there like an
association where there's like a league of Pan African architects
that discuss some of these things, or is it just
like a solo trip, because sometimes I wonder if there's
like collaboration when these things are happening.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Well, okay, the monument is something else the monument. This
was the idea of President who was a big intellectual,
our former president, who wrote a book in which he
saw this African coming out of the rules of the
(23:19):
earth and raising to point out towards America because to
him and he is White. The development is towards America,
so the young man is printing America. So this was
(23:42):
almost an individual thought. But yes, we have a continental
association which is called the Africa Union of Architects.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
We just celebrated what our for the Anthony Rose.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Just about two weeks ago in Kinshassa, and I happened
to be one of the founders and past president of
this association that puts together all the architects from Caro
to the cap So yes, we do think together. But
(24:22):
of course architecture is not something that you do. It's
just a personal inspiration. So we tried to do our best.
I was fortunate enough come back back in seventy three
(24:48):
and I found LEOPOLISA single was our former president, a
big thinker, a great poet, who wanted us to do
a new.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
To think over.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Everything that we're doing, architecture, dance, painting.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
If you're in mind in.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
The other room there you'll see the paintings that he promoted.
We are new painters to do a new architecture. As
a matter of fact, the first time I went to
see a head of state outside of Senegal, it was
through the recommendation of President Singor. I went to see
(25:40):
the President of Congo and the letter said that in
Senegal we are doing.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
A new we are.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Doing a new dance, African dance, modern, new painting things
and new architecture. And he recommended me to work there,
which I did, and this is how I started working
outside Senegal.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
So the only.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Yes because you see yes, because unfortunately, if you don't
start by the top, you'll lose a lot of time.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
You'll lose a lot of times. You lose your time
for nothing.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Even here today, you know, if you want to do something,
I can take my telephone and call the prime minister
or call the president. You do is stee your time,
and that's very unfortunate. And this is what these people
are trying to break. They are trying to correct this,
(26:57):
which is not easy. People still, if I don't call
the prime minister or I don't call the president, things
will just keep lingering on.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Nothing. Art is objective.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
So being American and watching that thing a point, it
almost feels like it could be the reverse. Whereas how
do we get ahead, How can we make development at
a grand level?
Speaker 1 (27:21):
We need to work together.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
So the same way that you came to America to study,
she came to America to study and came back. It
almost feels like this is almost a call for Black
America to say, hey, we need you and your help
to help us get to this place.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Could it be interpreted that way? Yeah? Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
You know, regardless of what is bad enough in America,
if you take development, well, that's where it is, and
you fool yourself if you think that, yes, that's not important.
That's very important because if you see poverty, poverty is
(28:02):
very bad. When you see people who cannot eat, who
cannot sleep, who cannot cure themselves, who cannot take their
children to school, then you know that wealth is something
you have to get it the right way. And America,
you like them or not. Of course, they have a
(28:23):
lot of things that they do bad, very bad, starting
your own president. But there are things that you people
do good, very good, sometimes your own president. So again,
don't be a shame of the fact that knowledge is there.
We are in the week of the Nobel Prices. More
(28:45):
than half of them come from America. So you like
it or not, that's where it is, and accept it
and take profits out of this see how that can
help to develop the country. Because at the end of
the day. That's where it lies. How do you develop
(29:09):
your country? And this is why we're coming with all
these theories, because without theory, you cannot go ahead.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Of transforming our wealth.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
You see, I told you, if you would transform these
iron ores or these box site into steel and aluminum,
you're talking about fifteen trillion dollars and more fifteen trillion dollars.
(29:44):
That's where you know, that's where it hurts. This is
why the colonials didn't want us to know that. And
that's where it hurts because you see, even today, I
had an argument with one of the leaders of the
IMF International Monetary Fund. He came here and we had
(30:10):
a meeting with the private sector, and this gentleman tells us, listen,
don't you make no mistake. Your oil and gas discovery
will not be a game changer.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
In your economy. I said, now, wait a minute, sir,
do you know that you damn right?
Speaker 3 (30:32):
But you right only, as they say in mathematics, if
and only if we listen to you. Now you listen
to me. And I explained to him what I just
explained to you.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Yes, you know that we have x amount of cubic
meters of gas.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
You calculated it as okay, one cubic meter will bring
one five dollars.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
But I didn't see it that way.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
I see that if I take thirty cubic meters instead
of just putting it in the market, I buy two
tons of iron ore, I create one thousand dollars out
of thirty dollars. Can I explained to him. He said, yes,
mister President, you are right. I say, okay, if you
(31:35):
say that I'm right, you go tell my folks that
what we should do is take this hour gas to
transform the raw materials of the neighboring countries. Because the
one we have to take the iron ore is about
(31:56):
six hundred kilometers from the all if we have to
put a train of six hundred kilometers, it's too expensive.
But we are coastal countries. You have the port of
Peppel again, the Port of Cancer. But mostly our friends
(32:18):
from Angola, they were here about two.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Months ago.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
And they were very proud to explain to us that well,
with the Americans, your folks.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
They are doing the Lobido Corridor. And if you see
that the only country that Joe Biden visited during his term,
the only place he went was in Lobiito. You know why,
because that corridor will drag all the Roman materials from
(33:01):
from Congo and all these countries, bring it to the
Lobito city and send it to America. So I told them,
because they can. They explained to us the ambolance we're
doing this Lobito corridor. And everybody clap their hands and say, hey, listen,
(33:22):
think about why you're clapping your hands. Americans are taking
everything to send it to America and you're clapping. Stop
being stupid. And this is where I told them, listen,
we cannot use all the material we don't have the news.
But let's take ten percent of what is going and
(33:45):
put in a Lobito. We put an industrial hub that
will transform only ten percent of that.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
And the Americans can help us if we ask them
to do that.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
And then you prepare for this leaker, this common market.
Do you ask before imposing, because you cannot impose. We
don't have the we don't have the weapons, we don't
have the means to impose.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Why do you think you're this? Uh?
Speaker 3 (34:21):
Donald Trump is imposing because he has the means. You know,
he brought all these African head of states and tell
them listen.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
What's your name again? Come on, I just thak very
good English.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
He didn't know the lie there. He was founded by
the Americans. Why because he has no weapons and he
has the wealth we have both.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Believe me, you impose your things, So we don't impose.
We ask very.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
No, no, no, no no, but now no, not now. I
think the international community knows that it's even good for
the others that we get developed.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
That's the good side of the story. So again, don't impoast.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
But if you explain to them that this is good
for them as well, you see if you would, if
you just explain to them that this is good for them.
It's just when people say that, okay, they don't want
energy coming from gas because you've developed your countries. But
(35:44):
give us twenty years, maybe twenty five, why not thirty
to be green.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
We cannot be green right now. It's too expensive for us.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
And they wait until we discovered gas to say, okay,
we don't want any guys powered machine, we want hydrogen.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
We're not there yet. Give us some time. But you
explain to them that while.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
They are working on green technology, we can work with
them with the less green technology that they have already
and we see how to bridge the gap in the
coming twenty years so that it can be we can
(36:33):
start our development. But that you have to discuss, we
have to accept some things. And while it's more complex
than it looks, but if you have the right if
(36:54):
you take the right decisions, development is that the end.
Speaker 4 (37:01):
Fashion You're building cities, You're designing cities, and I want
to know, how do you design a city that is
reflective of the African identity and that inclusive in terms
of community, education, capacity, chance and all the social instructure
(37:25):
that we need.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Well, it's easy for me because I'm African and I
came back.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
More than fifty years ago, so I know what my
people need because I'm part of the people.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
So to me it's easy.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
I mean, but in being African, don't forget that you
are part of the modern world.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
My best friend is cha gpt serious? Yes, yes, yes,
So you should avoid saying what this is Africa? Africa? Africa?
Speaker 3 (38:03):
No, Africa is part of the world. And chat gipts
more than I how to mix some things. Well, there
are a lot of things that I know. But you know,
you have to leave your world. You have to leave
your time and your time I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
It's chat.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
GPT is part of it, and unless you integrate it
in your thoughts in whatever you're doing. You know that
this is progress. You cannot stop it. I used it
a lot, you know. I was giving the example the
other day. I was in Kinchassa and I had to
rush to come back because it was my former president
(38:49):
Abduyuf's birthday, and I wanted a song for Abdu Youth.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
So I asked Chad Gipt, can you make a poem
for him?
Speaker 3 (39:00):
In one minute, I had the poem and then I said, hey, listen,
can I have the music with it? Two minutes I
have the music, and then I said listen, I want
the music to be played by robots. And five minutes
after I have the Roberts playing the music. Now you
(39:21):
want me to leave that because that's technology and be
writing for two weeks or two months like.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
You should do? Would do? No, that's finished you.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Last night we got to saw some of the future
visions for the car. Specifically, I wonder where the inspiration
came from because it feels futuristic and that goes back
to the vision. So what was that process where the
inspiration come from? I think we saw it was a
gory tower. We're just super impressed by it. So how
(39:57):
do you come up with the ideas?
Speaker 3 (39:59):
Well, I don't. I think when I do those things,
it just comes natural. Because when I take my mum
my pen, I know it's just I don't even think.
It just comes You do this and you do it,
but you always I always have.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
The will to develop the continent.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
This is why, for example, in one of the pictures
didn't show good because of the screen that was too large,
but you'd see the map of Africa. I do a
lot of things with the map of Africa.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
So you saw did you.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
See the bawb ocean baobab? If you see it here,
if you have two minutes, I'll show it to you.
Ocean Baobab comes from the inspiration of the palm in
the bye.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
The problem is the palm. The palm is the palm.
I said. This looks like, yeah, the palm is the palm.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
And the same people, because you know it takes a
lot of technology to do that, the same people who
did the palm in Dubai will be doing with us
while own entrepreneurs the mixture will be doing this bow back.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Amazing and this is how you mix things the way
it should be.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
They had the marina had the poorest, and they've been
saying that this is the closest destination from America.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
Absolutely, well it's a little I'll show you where the
closest destination to the continent is. This is just this
about well two kilometers away, because this is at the
point of the car in front of Goret. The story
behind Ocean Baobab is that this slave came out of
Goret from the small gate to the small door, and
(42:11):
he comes back with technology, with development, and.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
He's re entering Goret by the big gates.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
That's why you saw the big tower Goret out. They
came back here and this is what they came. They
came from here and this is what they bring to
the world. Going back to Gore, you'll see the story.
But but that's it.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
And again.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
What people don't know, I'll show you what we call
smart islands, and these are things that you people going
back to America can help you know.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
That the future is of course with big datas.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
The new data centers will be the big brothers, and
we developing in.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
The sea what we call smart island.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
Smart island I'll show it to you if you have
a minute. Smart Island wants to develop the future of
Africa in an island with the shape of Africa. And
what people don't know is that building that island on
(43:37):
the sea, the land is cheaper than the land on
shore because in that area the land have taken so
much value that it's very difficult to acquire a piece
of land there. But if we build an island, the
(43:59):
island is twice cheaper than But you have to know it.
If you don't know it, you cannot say it. So
I'll show you Smart Island. Where I need your help.
Is that we need for example, black folks come here
all the time. They go to gory all our ancestors,
(44:19):
all this, all that you don't see a penny when
they go. How would they take this emotion? She's good
and turn it into facts for developments.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
And again talking about not a vision, but just thinking.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
Yesterday you didn't see her, the one of the ladies
of Black Panther was there Wakanda. You know a black Panther, Well, lady,
I don't her name. She came for dinner a year
but command she's the warrior. You know, she's the number three.
(45:08):
You have the black panther. Uh huh, I don't know.
I mean the name, why why she was That's the
one thing. She was here, But I didn't any have
(45:36):
you come out? She was there with us, she had
the bodyguards, etcetera. She gave me bodyguards.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Huh. And she's a star.
Speaker 3 (45:55):
But no, no, no, I didn't well no, i'd probably.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
Huh. I don't know. I'm in guybody were even at
dinner with the buddyguards. I mean, I mean two mins,
not a problem. But you know, oh wow, I sa
(46:26):
uncle say uncle? Oh no often? So any other question
for this.
Speaker 3 (46:39):
My last question.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
I just wanted to know how do you think that
affected synagogue society, just that one monument that you built,
Like what has that done for the country?
Speaker 3 (46:50):
While people can identify themselves with the monuments, and you know,
people are proud to see that, well there is something happening.
And especially the kids, you know, when they tell them
that I am the architect, you cannot imagine what happens.
You cannot imagine, you know, when you don't want to.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
Interviews play well with me.
Speaker 3 (47:15):
So you can, especially for the young people to see that,
you know, they all know the Eiffel Tower. Effel Tower
is here when they go to Paris. Well, but now
they are proud to see that. People come and say, wow,
this is the monument of the Renaissance. So yes, it's
(47:39):
anything you do that can bring proud and.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
Happiness to the people who why not.
Speaker 3 (47:49):
But again that I asked for and again I appreciate
what you people are doing. You should invite people to
come back here because again if I tell tell you that.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
With this.
Speaker 3 (48:05):
Still an aluminum role, you will be generating you could
be generating more than fifteen trillion dollars.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
That means that there's plenty of work for everybody. Lent
lent and please you will have the expertise.
Speaker 3 (48:31):
And who know the people who can develop this continent.
Do everything in the books to bring them.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
Because the chance, the chances you have.
Speaker 3 (48:53):
Acquire wealth in Africa, you cannot have the same chance
anywhere else. So again, come back for us to make
Africa great again.
Speaker 1 (49:13):
Guid Thank you so much, Thank you so much, Thank
you appreciate Mercibo coul
Accomplishments. Congratulations, thank you. Oh you know your accomplish myself.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Yeah, we just I was going interested in just to
see Ay, which she does.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
That's amazing. With an intermiss to other things that you
that you did itself. What made you get in honest
actually away with that career a.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Joining one whatever measured in uh engineering and architecture both.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
I'm an engineer as well.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
So but before I get to that, I think the
most important thing, one of the most important things in
my little life here, is that when I graduated, I
came back. I came back for two reasons. The reason
number one was that I benefited from a scholarship and
(00:51):
I thought I have to give it back because America
didn't give me the scholarship for myself.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
They gave it to.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Me so that when I get the education I wanted
to have, I can come back and help my people
and help Africa. And this lesson is very interesting because
(01:20):
at trancelaer Wish, as you may know, is one of
the biggest engineering schools in America. As a matter of fact,
back in nineteen sixty eight when I was there, not
many black folks because it was very expensive. So if
(01:45):
I have that opportunity of having an education, higher education
in social institution. I thought I should come back because
it was not the money of my parents, it was
a scholarship. I'm not trying to give a lesson to anybody.
(02:07):
I'm just trying to say, listen, sometimes you're even much
better off coming back because there's so many opportunities in Africa.
You cannot imagine if I had stayed in America. I
was in the same school and the same class with
(02:29):
the architect of Bill Gates. His name was John but
he passed away about five years back. He was the
architect of Bill Gates, but he was not better off
than me here. So what I'm saying is that I
(02:51):
want people who benefited from a scholarship, and even if
you didn't benefit from a scholarship, if you are African,
please see what you can do. Of course, the good
news is that today with the technology, you don't need
to be physically back and this is why I appreciate
(03:15):
what you people are doing with technology today. You can
stay there, but just be interested in what is going
on in Africa. Business is booming and with the experience
you people have there, it's very interesting for you to
(03:40):
come back, not physically, but to come back and see
what you can do. And this is why again congratulations
for what you're doing to try to break things.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
That's very important.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
And again days back, yes you have to physically to
do things, but today again you can stay there, come
from time to time, but get interested in the development
of Africa. And if you do that, success is on
(04:19):
the way. You have to grab it and you have
to work very hard for it because our folks are
very difficult to work with. But if you have the
experience there well, and if you have people who can
open doors like our good self here, things can be
very very interesting.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Last night we got to witness obviously the Renaissance Monument,
which is extremely impressive. I think equally as impressive as
the amount of people that wanted to come speak to you.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
And it talks about.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
The level of relationships that you have across the continent.
How has that been over the course of your career
as an architect and just as a person here in
Senegal and Africa.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Well, of course, you see, the road is not.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Easy to build up a strong reputation takes.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
A lot of work, let's put it like that.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Because you are in an environment where it's easier to
go through. Not to follow the rules, it's easier. I've
always thought that I should be straight and clear. This
(05:50):
is why you don't see in a worlds. If you
do that, and you do things the way you think
they should be done, if you have your conscience clear,
you're not playing no games. Success is at the end
(06:12):
of the road or along the road, and at the
end of the road. So to build up that reputation,
it's easy and difficult. Again, it's easy because you just
(06:32):
have to do everything not to break the rules. Especially
in business. Most people think that, well they want to.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Take a short cut.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
There's no shortcut in good business, especially in Africa. So yes,
I was fortunate enough to have taken that path. Because
(07:08):
the environment is not always in your favor. Pressure is here.
People don't want to think ahead. They just think for tomorrow.
And this is one of the problems I have personally
because I try to have a vision. But if you
(07:32):
have a vision with people who don't have vision, you.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Have a problem.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
You see the place where we were yesterday, we were
so criticized. They're almost through stones to me because they
didn't understand.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Now, what was the criticism about.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Well, you see, this is a very religious country. They
are Muslims, and in their religion they don't always accept
sculptures of people portraying people. You can portray a horse
(08:17):
or whatever, but people, it's very difficult.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Some of them accepted sometimes, and I was, I don't
know if you understood the.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Story that I told yesterday, explaining that when we finished
building the monument, since.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
The lady was a little denuded here.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
They started making problems. And then the president asked me,
can we cover that?
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Yessolutely?
Speaker 3 (08:53):
I say yes, but it will cost a million dollars
a million plus.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
A million and a half. He says, a million, and
I have just for that cloth.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
I said yes. He said, okay, let's make it small.
I say, it's worse because it would be what we
call becho you know, that's what ladies were at night.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
So again you have to fight incomprehension when you look ahead.
So how do you get to buy it from the
people to accept it? Well?
Speaker 3 (09:27):
No, Actually, if you are if you know that what
you're doing is right, just be patient. Time will do
the rest. And that's what happens. And today, including the big,
the big religious chiefs, they all accept not only do
they accept if this monument was not here, you come
(09:47):
to the car, what do you see?
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Almost nothing? So if in your mind you know that
this is good, go ahead and do it right now.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
The the biggest project I have is what is probably
building the new city, the new capital city of Gabon
called Liberville too. But along that, what I think is
my thank you, thank you, thank you. But what I
think now is that we are doing what we call
(10:26):
the new roads, the new steel and aluminum roads. What
is it, Bob, let's not talk.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
It didn't tell you.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
What when we talk about the new steel and aluminum roads?
Speaker 1 (10:45):
What is that?
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Everybody knows that Europe has developed because of the steel
industry still and core. Now everybody also knows that most
of the raw material to make steel and aluminum come
from Africa. Now, the story goes that today if you
(11:20):
trace the road of steel, they take the raw material.
Let's say in Peppell here in Sira le One, it
makes twenty thousand kilometers to go to China to be
transformed and another twenty thousand kilometers to come back to
(11:44):
Africa to be distributed. If you take aluminum, the raw
material of aluminum is called box site box site comes
from our neighbors, from Guinea most of it. Of course,
Guinea can agree from the port of cancer twenty thousand
(12:08):
kilometers to go another twenty two comes makes it eighty
thousand kilometers. We want to reduce this into one point
two kilometers eighty thousand, one point two.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
How because we discovered oil.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
And gas in Senegal and in a radius of less
than one thousand kilometers, we have more than twenty seven
billion tons of iron ore. Twenty seven billion tons of
(12:51):
iron ore. If you would with the energy that we
discovered in Senegal instead of just selling the energy, when
you sell the energy, when you sell the gas, it
amounts it accounts for one point five, maybe less, maybe more.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Dollars a cubic meter.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
If you would take thirty cubic meters and buy two
tons of iron ore for two hundred dollars two hundred
plus fifty, it's two hundred and fifty.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Dollars, you would come up with a rout.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Of steel worth one thousand, two hundred and fifty dollars.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
And that's the challenge. So you will be not only
will you.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Be doing that, but you will reduce Because Pepel is
just eight hundred kilometers from so the forty thousandometers going
back and forth is reduced to eighty eight hundred and fifty.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Kilometers one straight path. Yes, well you go by the ocean.
It's not straight. You go by the ocean.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
And this is why we want to create what we
call the Atlantic Africa Steel and Aluminum Alliance, because we
want to put these countries together along the Atlantic, because
you don't want to get inside inland because of infrastructures
that are not developed.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
But boats.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Can just go from Peppel to the port of the car,
can go from Cancer to the port of the Car.
And we want to put build a new port in
Nikin in the south of Senegal, in Casamos, which is
just three hundred kilometers from where most of the iron
(15:04):
or the aluminum ore which is box side comes from.
Three hundred kilometers instead of twenty thousand and twenty thousand back.
Because we are preparing for Zlecka Sleeka is the new
African Continental Commander on care what well, you said, Well,
(15:34):
in English we say Lequa.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Zone deliberation. So we are preparing for that.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
But if you want to prepare for that, you have
to think about things that you may not.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
See yourself, but that's not important. That's building the future.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
When you're building the future, you don't think about itself.
I will not be here when it starts.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
We have to build it. Have you seen like you said,
you have to have vision.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
We've been to a few countries and it seems like
the vision is starting to become clearer as younger people
come into power. Have you seen a shift in how
people are looking at the future of unification, at least
in West Africa?
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Yes, of course. You see. The story goes that these
new people who took power.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
In Senega, I sponsored them.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
And I had a big fight with the president.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
But why did I sponsor them? Because they had a vision,
they have faith, They wanted to fight corruption. You see,
we work hard to get everything. You can see. I
don't asleep. I work very hard. Right pass seventy eight,
(17:05):
I'm still working. But you have these civil servants. After
one year, they have more money than me. This is
what's blocking Africa. Corruption was too hide And if I
sponsored these young people, it's because they wanted to go
just as what you said.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
They want things to go straight.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
They want to develop the country instead of developing their
own wealth.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
As civil servants.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
And they did not give the guidance that we needed.
So again I think that things are changing. Sometimes, of
course people don't know.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
How to change things.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
They make cous well, sometimes the cous are positive. If
you take Jerry Rowlings to talk about his very beautiful
country in Ghana, this gentleman, if he didn't do the
coup and took out all these generals who was just
(18:13):
taking the wealth of the people, Ghana wouldn't be where
it is today. And we hope that these people will
just do the same. They will change things so that
everybody can profit, can get advantage of the wealth of
(18:34):
the country. But to do that, again, you have to
have a vision and you have to know what you're
talking about. And this our vision here is yes, we
want to make Africa great again.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
And if you have that in your mind.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
If you do everything in the books to get there,
honestly by telling the truth, but by working hard and
setting the clocks right, successes at the end.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
I'm looking at Donald Trump.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
He's not that negative, you know, He's I think that
if he succeeds this week, even I would vote for
him to have the the nobel of his prize.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Could share.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
Maybe in Africa, civilization that we can look back to
as as young African. That makes us for what we
have and many when we lostation.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Well you see, do you know that the richest man
ever because Americas, you know, when you trab with Americans
talk about money or welfare.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
The wealthiest person ever.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
Was an Africa m who.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yes, he was the richest man ever.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
If you compare his wealth to Ellen Musk, it's nothing.
Ellen moscow wealth is just maybe one third one fifth
of what he had. And at that time Africa was great.
You've seen Tumbuktu, You've seen what was written by our ancestors.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Shanta Job who was a very good friend, big brother.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Yes, he was a very very very good friend of mine,
big brother, big brother, Shaikh Levopolicy are saying all and
all those we had great people. But then again it's
corruption that brought us back. If you have to take
(21:13):
a single thing, it's that, that's it.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
But things are improving.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
But again, these people who made cools sometimes they don't
know how to go about it. They made a cool
they have the power. Well they are not well, I
don't want to say educated. Most of them have limits,
but they wanted to do good Now the question is
(21:41):
what do we do today to make them do good?
And this is where the role of the diaspora is
very important because you know what progress is, you know
what to do to go ahead, which most of our people,
(22:03):
our leaders don't.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
So again, the road.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Is not easy, but if you do it the way,
you should success.
Speaker 5 (22:17):
That Ye, the Renaissance as an African seeing that coming
into synagogue given them I'm just next door from Ghana,
that really inspired me because when you travel the world,
you shall a lot of monuments and you hardly say
anything that is, you know, African. Is there a coalition
(22:37):
of African architects that come together. Is there like an
association where there's like a league of Pan African architects
that discuss some of these things, or is it just
like a solo trip, because sometimes I wonder if there's
like collaboration when these things are happening.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Well, okay, the monument is something else the monument. This
was the idea of President who was a big intellectual,
our former president, who wrote a book in which he
saw this African coming out of the rules of the
(23:19):
earth and raising to point out towards America because to
him and he is White. The development is towards America,
so the young man is printing America. So this was
(23:42):
almost an individual thought. But yes, we have a continental
association which is called the Africa Union of Architects.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
We just celebrated what our for the Anthony Rose.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Just about two weeks ago in Kinshassa, and I happened
to be one of the founders and past president of
this association that puts together all the architects from Caro
to the cap So yes, we do think together. But
(24:22):
of course architecture is not something that you do. It's
just a personal inspiration. So we tried to do our best.
I was fortunate enough come back back in seventy three
(24:48):
and I found LEOPOLISA single was our former president, a
big thinker, a great poet, who wanted us to do
a new.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
To think over.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Everything that we're doing, architecture, dance, painting.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
If you're in mind in.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
The other room there you'll see the paintings that he promoted.
We are new painters to do a new architecture. As
a matter of fact, the first time I went to
see a head of state outside of Senegal, it was
through the recommendation of President Singor. I went to see
(25:40):
the President of Congo and the letter said that in
Senegal we are doing.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
A new we are.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Doing a new dance, African dance, modern, new painting things
and new architecture. And he recommended me to work there,
which I did, and this is how I started working
outside Senegal.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
So the only.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
Yes because you see yes, because unfortunately, if you don't
start by the top, you'll lose a lot of time.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
You'll lose a lot of times. You lose your time
for nothing.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Even here today, you know, if you want to do something,
I can take my telephone and call the prime minister
or call the president. You do is stee your time,
and that's very unfortunate. And this is what these people
are trying to break. They are trying to correct this,
(26:57):
which is not easy. People still, if I don't call
the prime minister or I don't call the president, things
will just keep lingering on.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Nothing. Art is objective.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
So being American and watching that thing a point, it
almost feels like it could be the reverse. Whereas how
do we get ahead, How can we make development at
a grand level?
Speaker 1 (27:21):
We need to work together.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
So the same way that you came to America to study,
she came to America to study and came back. It
almost feels like this is almost a call for Black
America to say, hey, we need you and your help
to help us get to this place.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Could it be interpreted that way? Yeah? Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
You know, regardless of what is bad enough in America,
if you take development, well, that's where it is, and
you fool yourself if you think that, yes, that's not important.
That's very important because if you see poverty, poverty is
(28:02):
very bad. When you see people who cannot eat, who
cannot sleep, who cannot cure themselves, who cannot take their
children to school, then you know that wealth is something
you have to get it the right way. And America,
you like them or not. Of course, they have a
(28:23):
lot of things that they do bad, very bad, starting
your own president. But there are things that you people
do good, very good, sometimes your own president. So again,
don't be a shame of the fact that knowledge is there.
We are in the week of the Nobel Prices. More
(28:45):
than half of them come from America. So you like
it or not, that's where it is, and accept it
and take profits out of this see how that can
help to develop the country. Because at the end of
the day. That's where it lies. How do you develop
(29:09):
your country? And this is why we're coming with all
these theories, because without theory, you cannot go ahead.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Of transforming our wealth.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
You see, I told you, if you would transform these
iron ores or these box site into steel and aluminum,
you're talking about fifteen trillion dollars and more fifteen trillion dollars.
(29:44):
That's where you know, that's where it hurts. This is
why the colonials didn't want us to know that. And
that's where it hurts because you see, even today, I
had an argument with one of the leaders of the
IMF International Monetary Fund. He came here and we had
(30:10):
a meeting with the private sector, and this gentleman tells us, listen,
don't you make no mistake. Your oil and gas discovery
will not be a game changer.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
In your economy. I said, now, wait a minute, sir,
do you know that you damn right?
Speaker 3 (30:32):
But you right only, as they say in mathematics, if
and only if we listen to you. Now you listen
to me. And I explained to him what I just
explained to you.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Yes, you know that we have x amount of cubic
meters of gas.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
You calculated it as okay, one cubic meter will bring
one five dollars.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
But I didn't see it that way.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
I see that if I take thirty cubic meters instead
of just putting it in the market, I buy two
tons of iron ore, I create one thousand dollars out
of thirty dollars. Can I explained to him. He said, yes,
mister President, you are right. I say, okay, if you
(31:35):
say that I'm right, you go tell my folks that
what we should do is take this hour gas to
transform the raw materials of the neighboring countries. Because the
one we have to take the iron ore is about
(31:56):
six hundred kilometers from the all if we have to
put a train of six hundred kilometers, it's too expensive.
But we are coastal countries. You have the port of
Peppel again, the Port of Cancer. But mostly our friends
(32:18):
from Angola, they were here about two.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Months ago.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
And they were very proud to explain to us that well,
with the Americans, your folks.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
They are doing the Lobido Corridor. And if you see
that the only country that Joe Biden visited during his term,
the only place he went was in Lobiito. You know why,
because that corridor will drag all the Roman materials from
(33:01):
from Congo and all these countries, bring it to the
Lobito city and send it to America. So I told them,
because they can. They explained to us the ambolance we're
doing this Lobito corridor. And everybody clap their hands and say, hey, listen,
(33:22):
think about why you're clapping your hands. Americans are taking
everything to send it to America and you're clapping. Stop
being stupid. And this is where I told them, listen,
we cannot use all the material we don't have the news.
But let's take ten percent of what is going and
(33:45):
put in a Lobito. We put an industrial hub that
will transform only ten percent of that.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
And the Americans can help us if we ask them
to do that.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
And then you prepare for this leaker, this common market.
Do you ask before imposing, because you cannot impose. We
don't have the we don't have the weapons, we don't
have the means to impose.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Why do you think you're this? Uh?
Speaker 3 (34:21):
Donald Trump is imposing because he has the means. You know,
he brought all these African head of states and tell
them listen.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
What's your name again? Come on, I just thak very
good English.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
He didn't know the lie there. He was founded by
the Americans. Why because he has no weapons and he
has the wealth we have both.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Believe me, you impose your things, So we don't impose.
We ask very.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
No, no, no, no no, but now no, not now. I
think the international community knows that it's even good for
the others that we get developed.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
That's the good side of the story. So again, don't impoast.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
But if you explain to them that this is good
for them as well, you see if you would, if
you just explain to them that this is good for them.
It's just when people say that, okay, they don't want
energy coming from gas because you've developed your countries. But
(35:44):
give us twenty years, maybe twenty five, why not thirty
to be green.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
We cannot be green right now. It's too expensive for us.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
And they wait until we discovered gas to say, okay,
we don't want any guys powered machine, we want hydrogen.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
We're not there yet. Give us some time. But you
explain to them that while.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
They are working on green technology, we can work with
them with the less green technology that they have already
and we see how to bridge the gap in the
coming twenty years so that it can be we can
(36:33):
start our development. But that you have to discuss, we
have to accept some things. And while it's more complex
than it looks, but if you have the right if
(36:54):
you take the right decisions, development is that the end.
Speaker 4 (37:01):
Fashion You're building cities, You're designing cities, and I want
to know, how do you design a city that is
reflective of the African identity and that inclusive in terms
of community, education, capacity, chance and all the social instructure
(37:25):
that we need.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Well, it's easy for me because I'm African and I
came back.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
More than fifty years ago, so I know what my
people need because I'm part of the people.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
So to me it's easy.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
I mean, but in being African, don't forget that you
are part of the modern world.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
My best friend is cha gpt serious? Yes, yes, yes,
So you should avoid saying what this is Africa? Africa? Africa?
Speaker 3 (38:03):
No, Africa is part of the world. And chat gipts
more than I how to mix some things. Well, there
are a lot of things that I know. But you know,
you have to leave your world. You have to leave
your time and your time I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
It's chat.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
GPT is part of it, and unless you integrate it
in your thoughts in whatever you're doing. You know that
this is progress. You cannot stop it. I used it
a lot, you know. I was giving the example the
other day. I was in Kinchassa and I had to
rush to come back because it was my former president
(38:49):
Abduyuf's birthday, and I wanted a song for Abdu Youth.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
So I asked Chad Gipt, can you make a poem
for him?
Speaker 3 (39:00):
In one minute, I had the poem and then I said, hey, listen,
can I have the music with it? Two minutes I
have the music, and then I said listen, I want
the music to be played by robots. And five minutes
after I have the Roberts playing the music. Now you
(39:21):
want me to leave that because that's technology and be
writing for two weeks or two months like.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
You should do? Would do? No, that's finished you.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Last night we got to saw some of the future
visions for the car. Specifically, I wonder where the inspiration
came from because it feels futuristic and that goes back
to the vision. So what was that process where the
inspiration come from? I think we saw it was a
gory tower. We're just super impressed by it. So how
(39:57):
do you come up with the ideas?
Speaker 3 (39:59):
Well, I don't. I think when I do those things,
it just comes natural. Because when I take my mum
my pen, I know it's just I don't even think.
It just comes You do this and you do it,
but you always I always have.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
The will to develop the continent.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
This is why, for example, in one of the pictures
didn't show good because of the screen that was too large,
but you'd see the map of Africa. I do a
lot of things with the map of Africa.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
So you saw did you.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
See the bawb ocean baobab? If you see it here,
if you have two minutes, I'll show it to you.
Ocean Baobab comes from the inspiration of the palm in
the bye.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
The problem is the palm. The palm is the palm.
I said. This looks like, yeah, the palm is the palm.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
And the same people, because you know it takes a
lot of technology to do that, the same people who
did the palm in Dubai will be doing with us
while own entrepreneurs the mixture will be doing this bow back.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Amazing and this is how you mix things the way
it should be.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
They had the marina had the poorest, and they've been
saying that this is the closest destination from America.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
Absolutely, well it's a little I'll show you where the
closest destination to the continent is. This is just this
about well two kilometers away, because this is at the
point of the car in front of Goret. The story
behind Ocean Baobab is that this slave came out of
Goret from the small gate to the small door, and
(42:11):
he comes back with technology, with development, and.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
He's re entering Goret by the big gates.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
That's why you saw the big tower Goret out. They
came back here and this is what they came. They
came from here and this is what they bring to
the world. Going back to Gore, you'll see the story.
But but that's it.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
And again.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
What people don't know, I'll show you what we call
smart islands, and these are things that you people going
back to America can help you know.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
That the future is of course with big datas.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
The new data centers will be the big brothers, and
we developing in.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
The sea what we call smart island.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
Smart island I'll show it to you if you have
a minute. Smart Island wants to develop the future of
Africa in an island with the shape of Africa. And
what people don't know is that building that island on
(43:37):
the sea, the land is cheaper than the land on
shore because in that area the land have taken so
much value that it's very difficult to acquire a piece
of land there. But if we build an island, the
(43:59):
island is twice cheaper than But you have to know it.
If you don't know it, you cannot say it. So
I'll show you Smart Island. Where I need your help.
Is that we need for example, black folks come here
all the time. They go to gory all our ancestors,
(44:19):
all this, all that you don't see a penny when
they go. How would they take this emotion? She's good
and turn it into facts for developments.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
And again talking about not a vision, but just thinking.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
Yesterday you didn't see her, the one of the ladies
of Black Panther was there Wakanda. You know a black Panther, Well, lady,
I don't her name. She came for dinner a year
but command she's the warrior. You know, she's the number three.
(45:08):
You have the black panther. Uh huh, I don't know.
I mean the name, why why she was That's the
one thing. She was here, But I didn't any have
(45:36):
you come out? She was there with us, she had
the bodyguards, etcetera. She gave me bodyguards.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Huh. And she's a star.
Speaker 3 (45:55):
But no, no, no, I didn't well no, i'd probably.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
Huh. I don't know. I'm in guybody were even at
dinner with the buddyguards. I mean, I mean two mins,
not a problem. But you know, oh wow, I sa
(46:26):
uncle say uncle? Oh no often? So any other question
for this.
Speaker 3 (46:39):
My last question.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
I just wanted to know how do you think that
affected synagogue society, just that one monument that you built,
Like what has that done for the country?
Speaker 3 (46:50):
While people can identify themselves with the monuments, and you know,
people are proud to see that, well there is something happening.
And especially the kids, you know, when they tell them
that I am the architect, you cannot imagine what happens.
You cannot imagine, you know, when you don't want to.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
Interviews play well with me.
Speaker 3 (47:15):
So you can, especially for the young people to see that,
you know, they all know the Eiffel Tower. Effel Tower
is here when they go to Paris. Well, but now
they are proud to see that. People come and say, wow,
this is the monument of the Renaissance. So yes, it's
(47:39):
anything you do that can bring proud and.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
Happiness to the people who why not.
Speaker 3 (47:49):
But again that I asked for and again I appreciate
what you people are doing. You should invite people to
come back here because again if I tell tell you that.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
With this.
Speaker 3 (48:05):
Still an aluminum role, you will be generating you could
be generating more than fifteen trillion dollars.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
That means that there's plenty of work for everybody. Lent
lent and please you will have the expertise.
Speaker 3 (48:31):
And who know the people who can develop this continent.
Do everything in the books to bring them.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
Because the chance, the chances you have.
Speaker 3 (48:53):
Acquire wealth in Africa, you cannot have the same chance
anywhere else. So again, come back for us to make
Africa great again.
Speaker 1 (49:13):
Guid Thank you so much, Thank you so much, Thank
you appreciate Mercibo coul
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