December 16, 2025 • 13 mins
In this clip legendary musician and entrepreneur Ryan Leslie breaks down how he made $2 million off an independent album that only sold 17,000 copies. #RyanLeslie #independentartist #musicbusiness Full Episode: • Ryan Leslie discuses tech, text management... EYL University: https://www.eyluniversity.com EYL University 40% off Annual Tuition Code: EARNERS
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This episode is brought to you by P and C Bank.
A lot of people think podcasts about work are boring,
and sure they definitely can be, but understanding of professionals
routine shows us how they achieve their success little by little,
day after day. It's like banking with P and C Bank.
It might seem boring the safe plan and make calculated
(00:21):
decisions with your bank, but keeping your money boring is
what helps you live or more happily fulfilled life. P
and C Bank Brilliantly Boring since eighteen sixty five. Brilliantly
Boring since eighteen sixty five is a service mark of
the PNC Financial Service Group, Inc. P and C Bank
National Association Member FDIC. I know you have this dispyramid
(00:44):
of of relationships. Yeah, I'm interested because in the pyramid
you start with obviously at the bottom of the social media.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Why is that?
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Well, I would say that social media is almost like
a virtual representation of walking around the streets of New York. Right, So,
anyone that you see on the streets of New York,
or riding the trains or however you're walking around New York,
you actually do have the option of speaking to them, right, So,
(01:16):
You could be in Times Square and you know it's
ten twenty thousand people in Times Square. As long as
they're standing there and walking the same street with you,
you have the option of speaking with them. Whether they're
going to speak to you is up to them. You
have the option same on the internet, right, social media, Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram,
(01:37):
whatever social platform you're on. As long as they're there
and they're sharing, you also have the option of reaching
out and speaking to them. Whether it's through a direct message,
whether it's in a comment, whether it's in a retweet
or reply, whatever it is. They obviously have the option
of whether they would like to respond. The connectivity is there,
So I would say the expected response and that's why
(02:01):
you just said, oh in New York, because there's already
the building, it's already built in. The expected response time.
So once you start on social media and you're basically
and that's basically a virtual representation of what's happening in
the world. If you're just walking around, the expected response
time or the expectation for a response is very low.
(02:25):
Once you can move up and you actually can get
an email address, that expectation for a response goes up.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Yeah, so you went social media. I think you said.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Email, right, so you get from DMS to email. The
beauty of email as well is the fact that nine
times out of ten, when you get someone's email, you've
been introduced by someone. So you say, like just how
I say, hey, put me in touch with your guy
from the R and B and he's doing texting. I'm
going to get a warm introduction, so it's not just
me reaching out random. Yeah, I'm getting a warm introduction email, right.
(03:01):
That can also happen on text. What I like about text, though,
is the fact that text allows you to turn up
from texting to a phone conversation very quickly. And when
you have that kind of rapport, you're really going to
see who wants to work with you when you can
take stock of who actually answers your phone call, especially
(03:24):
in twenty twenty, who's actually going to answer the phone call?
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Right?
Speaker 3 (03:27):
And then that continues up the pyramid. Okay, yo, we
had a phone call. Hey, look, why don't you pull
up at this time? You got that in person, and
then you continue moving up the pyramid from this.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
So, yeah, I want to talk about super phone. Before that,
I wanted to go back to that you said you
made two million dollars after off that album when you
took it off, So can you detail, like, how did
you do that? Was it through e merged? Was it
through live shows? A combination of everything? Live live made
up the majority live shows. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
So when I put my number on Twitter say everybody
shoot me a text, there were thirty five thousand people
that texted in the first response that everyone got. And
whether you're texting you know you're texted me for the
first time, or you see any of these other celebs,
I mean they're now six seven years later, everybody finally
caught on.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
The first response is it needs to be automated right
for you to be able to manage the scale, And
that first response is always thanks for texting. I would
love to know who you are, so please, you know,
put your information in my phone, right because I'm not
gonna type everybody's information. So here's a form you can
you can actually put your information in my phone so
(04:37):
I know who's even texting me at that point. The
difference I would say between my twenty thirteen campaign and
the campaigns that I'm seeing now is that there was
a very specific intent captured at the initiation of the conversation.
(04:58):
So I didn't just say, hey, here's my number, shoot
me a text. What's up. I said, look, shoot me
a text to get my new album. So they shot
me a text. I already know the reason they're texting
is to.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Give new product.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
What's your information? Once I have the information, here's the
link to get the album. Once that intent is captured,
then you have an incredibly high conversion rate. So one
out of every two, about seventeen thousand people actually bought
that record. They bought it for ten dollars. That's one
hundred and seventy thousand, right. The difference though, is that
I now have a rolodex, a record, a ledger of
(05:32):
every single person that's willing to actually spend money with
me directly. So now not only do you I have names,
not only do you have emails, not only to have telephone numbers,
I have city and state and country information. So now
I'm going on tour.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Got the real goal? You're going on tour.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
People go to concerts because it is a social experience.
So yeah, you might go to the concert of none
of your friend want to go, you still figure out
a where you go by yourself, but you're still in
a room with a bunch of people. You guys are
connected by the fact that you appreciate the artist that's
on stage. For me, in that situation, even though only
seventeen thousand people in my phone actually bought my record,
(06:15):
they all brought a friend or two or three or
five to the concerts. When I announced them, we sold
forty thousand tickets sixty euros a ticket. You could do
the math.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
That's like five albums right there.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
You know, And so it's really just and like I said,
you know, there's obviously ancillary income that happens from that.
There's publishing revenue and merchandise, et cetera. For me, you know,
I really prefer digital goods because you know, there's a
cost of goods. You know, when you have merchandise, and
(06:52):
there's a cost of inventory, there's a cost of shipping.
And so digital goods for me have always been my
preference just because they have unlimited scale and as long
as you're delivering value, hopefully your content is gonna be
ever green. And so that's why I always I always
remind an artist that even though you may feel like
(07:15):
your music is outdated, to you, it's actually brand new
for the person who's hearing it for the first time.
And the reality is that even if you went platinum,
there is still a large number of people around the
world who have yet to have even heard your record
(07:36):
one time. So you have the ability in music, which
is always why I say, look, just create the best
music you possibly can, because great music is ever green,
you know. And so you know, I'm doing some real
estate development and investments in Brooklyn, and so you know,
sometimes you'll walk into some of the whether it's the
(07:58):
mom and pop stores or or just the bodegas or wherever,
and they'll be playing some great, you know, old school music.
I've never heard the record before. I'm putting my shuzama
up because for me, it's still that experience of discovering
that music for the first time. It's thirty forty years old.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
You know.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
I love what you said as far as like, how
many people don't know you? Because that happened, I realized that,
like now with the podcast has become very popular, especially
in our community, and we went to an event curl Fest.
I don't know if you're heard of it. Yeah. One
of our guests on the podcast, a friend of all
she does it. So we had curl Fest this year
and it's like twenty thousand women and not a lot
of men, and like at least probably like twenty twenty
(08:37):
people came up to us like, yeah, we love your podcast.
So at first I'm like, this is dope, Like we
feel like, you know, we made it. But then I'm
thinking twenty people recognized us, which is dope. But there's
twenty thousand people here, Like how many people? We still
got so much more to penetrate day.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
I tell them every day, like my life is so
much duality. Like I go to work, most of my
coworkers don't even know I do a podcast. I walk
down the stree. Most people don't even know I'm a teacher.
But like there are rare cats, like we're in Houston
and somebody will say, oh, you know, I love your podcast.
It's like this is cool. But now we got so
much con penetration.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
You can never get thinking that you like made it
because yeah, there's always a bunch of people.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
That don't have no clue.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Yeah, and also just to be just to keep it
one hundred, you still can be ridiculously wealthy just from
a niche audience, you know, I would say that you
know they're they're there. Exists a number of gen zers
that may not even know who Oprah is.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Right, that's the fact.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
The audience though, that she's created, that's her niche audience,
and that's a that's a loyal audience. And that audience
is not just limited to the viewers. It's also limited
to the television executives that love her content and want
to syndicate it right. And so I think that you know,
the I would say the conundru of scale, or the
(10:02):
dilemma if you will, of scale is unless you really
have the technological infrastructure to have a direct relationship with
each one of your listeners at scale, you're better off
having a manageable, manageable audience in terms of size, so
that you can actually have a depth of a relationship
(10:23):
with those folks. I have folks, you know. You look
at my socials, my socials compared to the biggest stars
or influencers on Instagram, I'm sitting at three hundred and
sixty thousand followers. I know that in my core though,
I have folks that have spent four or five, six, seven,
ten thousand dollars with me and I know every dollar
(10:45):
they spent, I know the products they like, et cetera.
And so you know that depth of relationship on it.
And that's sort of in any vertical, in any circumstance,
the depth of relationship is always going to year. I
would say, just a greater reward in general.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Sometimes less it's.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
More, less is more. A lot of times.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
This is This is a prime example of it. Erners,
(11:33):
what's up. You ever walk into a small business and
everything just works like the checkout is fast, the re
seats are digital, tipping is a breeze, and you're out
the door before the line even builds. Odds are they're
using Square. We love supporting businesses that run on Square
because it just feels seamless. Whether it's a local coffee shop,
a vendor at a pop up market, or even one
(11:55):
of our merch partners. Square makes it easy for them
to take payments, inventory, and run their business with confidence,
all from one simple system. One of the things we
love most is seeing neighborhood businesses level up. Business West
Indian spired writing our community that started with a small
takeout counter. Now with Square, they've been able to expand
(12:16):
into a full sit down restaurant and even started catering
events across the city. That's the kind of growth that
inspires us, and it's powered by Square. Square is built
for all types of businesses, from the corner bagel shop
that turned into a local chain, to the specialty market
with thousands of unique items, to the stylists who's been
holding you down for years. If you're a business owner
(12:38):
or even just thinking about launching something soon, Square is
hands down one of the best tools out there to
help you start, run and grow. It's not just about payments,
it's about giving you time back so you can focus
on what matters most ready. To see how Square can
transform your business, visit Square dot com backslash go backslash
(12:59):
eyl to learn more that Square dot com backslash, go
backslash y L. Don't wait, don't hesitate. Let's Square handle
the back end so you can keep pushing your vision forward.
This episode is brought to you by P and C Bank.
A lot of people think podcasts about work are boring,
and sure they definitely can be, but understanding of professionals
routine shows us how they achieve their success little by little,
day after day. It's like banking with P and C Bank.
It might seem boring the safe plan and make calculated
(00:21):
decisions with your bank, but keeping your money boring is
what helps you live or more happily fulfilled life. P
and C Bank Brilliantly Boring since eighteen sixty five. Brilliantly
Boring since eighteen sixty five is a service mark of
the PNC Financial Service Group, Inc. P and C Bank
National Association Member FDIC. I know you have this dispyramid
(00:44):
of of relationships. Yeah, I'm interested because in the pyramid
you start with obviously at the bottom of the social media.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Why is that?
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Well, I would say that social media is almost like
a virtual representation of walking around the streets of New York. Right, So,
anyone that you see on the streets of New York,
or riding the trains or however you're walking around New York,
you actually do have the option of speaking to them, right, So,
(01:16):
You could be in Times Square and you know it's
ten twenty thousand people in Times Square. As long as
they're standing there and walking the same street with you,
you have the option of speaking with them. Whether they're
going to speak to you is up to them. You
have the option same on the internet, right, social media, Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram,
(01:37):
whatever social platform you're on. As long as they're there
and they're sharing, you also have the option of reaching
out and speaking to them. Whether it's through a direct message,
whether it's in a comment, whether it's in a retweet
or reply, whatever it is. They obviously have the option
of whether they would like to respond. The connectivity is there,
So I would say the expected response and that's why
(02:01):
you just said, oh in New York, because there's already
the building, it's already built in. The expected response time.
So once you start on social media and you're basically
and that's basically a virtual representation of what's happening in
the world. If you're just walking around, the expected response
time or the expectation for a response is very low.
(02:25):
Once you can move up and you actually can get
an email address, that expectation for a response goes up.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Yeah, so you went social media. I think you said.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Email, right, so you get from DMS to email. The
beauty of email as well is the fact that nine
times out of ten, when you get someone's email, you've
been introduced by someone. So you say, like just how
I say, hey, put me in touch with your guy
from the R and B and he's doing texting. I'm
going to get a warm introduction, so it's not just
me reaching out random. Yeah, I'm getting a warm introduction email, right.
(03:01):
That can also happen on text. What I like about text, though,
is the fact that text allows you to turn up
from texting to a phone conversation very quickly. And when
you have that kind of rapport, you're really going to
see who wants to work with you when you can
take stock of who actually answers your phone call, especially
(03:24):
in twenty twenty, who's actually going to answer the phone call?
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Right?
Speaker 3 (03:27):
And then that continues up the pyramid. Okay, yo, we
had a phone call. Hey, look, why don't you pull
up at this time? You got that in person, and
then you continue moving up the pyramid from this.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
So, yeah, I want to talk about super phone. Before that,
I wanted to go back to that you said you
made two million dollars after off that album when you
took it off, So can you detail, like, how did
you do that? Was it through e merged? Was it
through live shows? A combination of everything? Live live made
up the majority live shows. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
So when I put my number on Twitter say everybody
shoot me a text, there were thirty five thousand people
that texted in the first response that everyone got. And
whether you're texting you know you're texted me for the
first time, or you see any of these other celebs,
I mean they're now six seven years later, everybody finally
caught on.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
The first response is it needs to be automated right
for you to be able to manage the scale, And
that first response is always thanks for texting. I would
love to know who you are, so please, you know,
put your information in my phone, right because I'm not
gonna type everybody's information. So here's a form you can
you can actually put your information in my phone so
(04:37):
I know who's even texting me at that point. The
difference I would say between my twenty thirteen campaign and
the campaigns that I'm seeing now is that there was
a very specific intent captured at the initiation of the conversation.
(04:58):
So I didn't just say, hey, here's my number, shoot
me a text. What's up. I said, look, shoot me
a text to get my new album. So they shot
me a text. I already know the reason they're texting
is to.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Give new product.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
What's your information? Once I have the information, here's the
link to get the album. Once that intent is captured,
then you have an incredibly high conversion rate. So one
out of every two, about seventeen thousand people actually bought
that record. They bought it for ten dollars. That's one
hundred and seventy thousand, right. The difference though, is that
I now have a rolodex, a record, a ledger of
(05:32):
every single person that's willing to actually spend money with
me directly. So now not only do you I have names,
not only do you have emails, not only to have telephone numbers,
I have city and state and country information. So now
I'm going on tour.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Got the real goal? You're going on tour.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
People go to concerts because it is a social experience.
So yeah, you might go to the concert of none
of your friend want to go, you still figure out
a where you go by yourself, but you're still in
a room with a bunch of people. You guys are
connected by the fact that you appreciate the artist that's
on stage. For me, in that situation, even though only
seventeen thousand people in my phone actually bought my record,
(06:15):
they all brought a friend or two or three or
five to the concerts. When I announced them, we sold
forty thousand tickets sixty euros a ticket. You could do
the math.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
That's like five albums right there.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
You know, And so it's really just and like I said,
you know, there's obviously ancillary income that happens from that.
There's publishing revenue and merchandise, et cetera. For me, you know,
I really prefer digital goods because you know, there's a
cost of goods. You know, when you have merchandise, and
(06:52):
there's a cost of inventory, there's a cost of shipping.
And so digital goods for me have always been my
preference just because they have unlimited scale and as long
as you're delivering value, hopefully your content is gonna be
ever green. And so that's why I always I always
remind an artist that even though you may feel like
(07:15):
your music is outdated, to you, it's actually brand new
for the person who's hearing it for the first time.
And the reality is that even if you went platinum,
there is still a large number of people around the
world who have yet to have even heard your record
(07:36):
one time. So you have the ability in music, which
is always why I say, look, just create the best
music you possibly can, because great music is ever green,
you know. And so you know, I'm doing some real
estate development and investments in Brooklyn, and so you know,
sometimes you'll walk into some of the whether it's the
(07:58):
mom and pop stores or or just the bodegas or wherever,
and they'll be playing some great, you know, old school music.
I've never heard the record before. I'm putting my shuzama
up because for me, it's still that experience of discovering
that music for the first time. It's thirty forty years old.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
You know.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
I love what you said as far as like, how
many people don't know you? Because that happened, I realized that,
like now with the podcast has become very popular, especially
in our community, and we went to an event curl Fest.
I don't know if you're heard of it. Yeah. One
of our guests on the podcast, a friend of all
she does it. So we had curl Fest this year
and it's like twenty thousand women and not a lot
of men, and like at least probably like twenty twenty
(08:37):
people came up to us like, yeah, we love your podcast.
So at first I'm like, this is dope, Like we
feel like, you know, we made it. But then I'm
thinking twenty people recognized us, which is dope. But there's
twenty thousand people here, Like how many people? We still
got so much more to penetrate day.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
I tell them every day, like my life is so
much duality. Like I go to work, most of my
coworkers don't even know I do a podcast. I walk
down the stree. Most people don't even know I'm a teacher.
But like there are rare cats, like we're in Houston
and somebody will say, oh, you know, I love your podcast.
It's like this is cool. But now we got so
much con penetration.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
You can never get thinking that you like made it
because yeah, there's always a bunch of people.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
That don't have no clue.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
Yeah, and also just to be just to keep it
one hundred, you still can be ridiculously wealthy just from
a niche audience, you know, I would say that you
know they're they're there. Exists a number of gen zers
that may not even know who Oprah is.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Right, that's the fact.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
The audience though, that she's created, that's her niche audience,
and that's a that's a loyal audience. And that audience
is not just limited to the viewers. It's also limited
to the television executives that love her content and want
to syndicate it right. And so I think that you know,
the I would say the conundru of scale, or the
(10:02):
dilemma if you will, of scale is unless you really
have the technological infrastructure to have a direct relationship with
each one of your listeners at scale, you're better off
having a manageable, manageable audience in terms of size, so
that you can actually have a depth of a relationship
(10:23):
with those folks. I have folks, you know. You look
at my socials, my socials compared to the biggest stars
or influencers on Instagram, I'm sitting at three hundred and
sixty thousand followers. I know that in my core though,
I have folks that have spent four or five, six, seven,
ten thousand dollars with me and I know every dollar
(10:45):
they spent, I know the products they like, et cetera.
And so you know that depth of relationship on it.
And that's sort of in any vertical, in any circumstance,
the depth of relationship is always going to year. I
would say, just a greater reward in general.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Sometimes less it's.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
More, less is more. A lot of times.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
This is This is a prime example of it. Erners,
(11:33):
what's up. You ever walk into a small business and
everything just works like the checkout is fast, the re
seats are digital, tipping is a breeze, and you're out
the door before the line even builds. Odds are they're
using Square. We love supporting businesses that run on Square
because it just feels seamless. Whether it's a local coffee shop,
a vendor at a pop up market, or even one
(11:55):
of our merch partners. Square makes it easy for them
to take payments, inventory, and run their business with confidence,
all from one simple system. One of the things we
love most is seeing neighborhood businesses level up. Business West
Indian spired writing our community that started with a small
takeout counter. Now with Square, they've been able to expand
(12:16):
into a full sit down restaurant and even started catering
events across the city. That's the kind of growth that
inspires us, and it's powered by Square. Square is built
for all types of businesses, from the corner bagel shop
that turned into a local chain, to the specialty market
with thousands of unique items, to the stylists who's been
holding you down for years. If you're a business owner
(12:38):
or even just thinking about launching something soon, Square is
hands down one of the best tools out there to
help you start, run and grow. It's not just about payments,
it's about giving you time back so you can focus
on what matters most ready. To see how Square can
transform your business, visit Square dot com backslash go backslash
(12:59):
eyl to learn more that Square dot com backslash, go
backslash y L. Don't wait, don't hesitate. Let's Square handle
the back end so you can keep pushing your vision forward.
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