December 15, 2025 • 27 mins
Lance Lynn, Kyle Gibson, and Jim Hayes discuss the Cardinals signing Dustin May, trade rumors surrounding Brendan Donovan, and what goes into make a no-trade list.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
When you see those birds, you know it's time for
another edition of Cardinal Territory. Jim Hay is alongside Lance
Lynn and Kyle Gibson. A lot to get to on
this edition, but kinle of, if you don't mind, Lance
had a problem traveling, and I'd like to get the
story because there was bad weather in New York and
(00:28):
he had to spend a lot of time at the airport.
And because I care not just about the show, what
about you two and met holidays individuals. I would like
to hear Lance's story.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Oh you know, it's a lovely, beautiful New York snow day.
You know, you wake up on Sunday morning, You're like, man,
we've got an early flight. We had a beautiful you know,
we got to see the rockets. Mama Mia, the kids
loved it, Wife loved it. Everybody's happy. Snowing. It's it's
snowing so bad. Kyle, you can't even see City Field
(01:02):
from LaGuardia, That's how bad it is. You know, you
came and see it across there. So yeah, so we
sat there from We sat there from six am to
five pm, just hoping our fight didn't get canceled because
there was probably half a flights got canceled that morning,
and they just kept pushing it back. I saw, I
saw Jeff Mathis of all people in the airport with
(01:25):
his family.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
They did the same. Yeah, it was you know, it
was just like a little reunion in the airport, you know.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
But you know we were sloming it in the sky club,
so we weren't hurting by any means.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
So you know, so so buts I got to go
to the sky club.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Got it naturally. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
So yeah, if you want to see former teammates in
or in New York Airport LaGuardia, it's going to be
in the sky club or or you're.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Not going to see it.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
So yeah, so just a good old fashioned sky club day,
you know, tough, tough tickets for the kids. Uh, you know,
they had to travel tough. So only thing would have
been better is if we went privately. I don't think
we would have got out of either.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
So part of the gig this time of year in
New York, you know that you got to deal with
the weather.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Sky club membership.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
No, no, Jim, I think Lan's going to have answered
that right off the rip. We don't have that c Hey,
if he did, Is it Bragg because.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
I know that.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Yeah, we talked about clear and tsa pre check, you know,
last time. So I think Jim is that's kind of
where we're at. You know, you're in the sky club.
I'm in Clear, Jim is going to be in clear.
You know. It's we're in three different three different areas there.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
No question about it. Well, the Cardinals did make a move.
They signed Dustin May to a one year free agent contract.
Twenty eight year old right hander seven and eleven last
year between the Dodgers and the Red Sox. You're a
four point nine to six on the positive side over
one hundred and thirty two innings pitch, which is a
(02:59):
major lead high for him, electric stuff earlier in his career,
no question about that. But the problem has been injuries,
he said Tommy John. Then he had the extra Tommy
John to fix the earlier Tommy John. He said, forearm.
He had an esophagus tear that cost him a lot
of time after he choked on a piece of lettuce.
(03:23):
So the talent is there. My opinion is this is
a no brainer. It's a low risk, one year deal,
high reward because this guy at his best is really
really good and he appears to be healthy. Now, So Kyle,
you're nodding, I'm gonna start with you. How do you
look at this move?
Speaker 4 (03:41):
Yeah? I like it a lot. I think he's a
guy that, like you said, has the upside with that
electric stuff. I think he can end up being somebody
that is a game changer for the rotation if he
has another full season. I haven't looked at his outliers
and kind of the advanced numbers to see, you know,
(04:02):
maybe what that fIF is. Maybe he had a couple
outings in that one hundred and thirty innings that you know,
inflated that era a a little bit, but nearly a strikeout. Parenting,
he's got some funk to his delivery, throws hard, and
I'm trying to remember the most recent injury here last
year was that his first full season off of that
most recent tom of John. So I think that the
(04:24):
farther you get away from that, I think the better
he's going to be.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
For him in there too, Lance, what are your thoughts.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Like positive, Kyle said, you're looking at young with good stuff,
low risk ause a one year. You know he's got
a you know, high spin sweeper. You know, great sinker.
The strikeouts are there, could even be more with this
stuff he has. That's something for Dusty to play with.
And uh so here's the here's the negative. I think
(04:53):
that you look at it, it's like, man, he threw
one hundred and thirty two innings and that's the most ever.
But as as Kyle was talking about, you're looking at
his probably is really a second full year of actually
pitching away from the last Tommy John. I think that's
when you kind of hit your stride. You look at
the age. The age is in a good spot. He's
trending in the direction of Hey, you know, if it's
(05:13):
one hundred and thirty innings now it's one hundred and fifty,
maybe one hundred and sixty. And the note that I
had on him and from get go, I gotta spend
a little time with him in LA when he was
dealing with all the injuries.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
He's a great guy.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Everybody loves him, and he comes from World Series pedigree, really,
and you're looking at a rotation that needs somebody that
has been in situations done it.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Obviously, he's you know, could have been in more with health.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
But you're looking at a guy who's been in a
championship organization, has been taught how to do a lot
of different things. When it comes to pitching, the way
that the Dodgers teach pitching could be really huge for
some of these younger pitchers. I mean, heck younger that
he's only like two years older than all these guys
because he's only twenty eight years.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Old, but his ability to maybe communicate eight with those.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Guys and stuff like that, it's going to be huge
for a young group trying to establish themselves. And he's
still trying to establish himself, but he's still still had success,
especially in the playoffs and stuff like that, and has
a couple of world serious strings to show for it
being a part of a good organization in La So
I think all in all, it's gonna be a good
a good spot for him.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
He's a ginger, I want to point that out. And
also kind of when there's a guy who was like
considered like the future for the Dodgers, right, and then
the injuries you know, getting away, and then there's one
then there's something inside each professional athlete, especially a guy
is lance point that has performed at a high level.
There's that hunger to get back there isn't there.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
Yeah, for sure. I think injuries are something that easily
eat it's at you as is I think, you know,
poor performance, you know, I think, yeah, he's gonna want
to go out there and and at least to himself,
even say, man, another full season, I know I can
pitch even better. I know I can feel even better
(07:05):
going to a great city, to live in a great ballpark,
to pitch in a team that you know he probably
has the ability to, you know, like Lance said, and
be that veteran, be the guy that you know, kind
of leads a pitching staff maybe for the first time ever,
which I know for me that was pretty exciting. That
was an interesting, uh dynamic. When I got you know,
(07:26):
signed with Baltimore in twenty twenty three, was figuring out
all right, now I can kind of put into work
here what Lance has ingrained him in the last three
years of being with him. So hopefully he enjoys that.
Hopefully that's something that you know, he can run with,
and you know, I think he's really gonna like it
in Saint Louis, and I think this is what we've
talked about the last couple of shows here. I feel
like is find these guys that have the ability to
(07:48):
make your players better as they get better and as
you feel like you can help them. And then if
you end up being a playoff team, which I think
they can, you keep him and you go the full year,
and now you're like, man, we just got lightning in
a bottle. If he throws really well and the team struggles,
he's a guy that you can trade away. And I'm
sure that's gonna be part of the understanding going into this.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
And either way, it's a one year deal, which is
really a no brainer. And Lance, looked back on your
own career, I think twenty eight is like the ideal
age for a pitcher, especially if he can put those
injuries in the rear view mirror.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Yeah, and like I said, he was brought up in
an organization.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
He knows how to pitch, and he's when he's been
on the field, he's been really good before injuries. Last
year was your like, people don't realize that first like
full year of getting back the ins and outs of
how your elbow feels and the things you have to
deal with because he hadn't pitched in what two years
at that point, give or take, you know, He's had
(08:49):
some spots here there where he's been healthy, but he
hasn't had time to really get his feet under him.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
He had to go through some ups and downs last year.
You're gonna have.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Indians and you're gonna have days when you just don't
have your stuff because you haven't been able to navigate
a season. It's a similar thing that we're talking about Libby.
Last year it was his first full season doing it right.
This has been his first full season in a long
time doing it. You have to relearn who you are,
and I think he still knows he's got this stuff
to do it now. That confidence is going to come
(09:19):
because he was able to put those Indians under his belt,
and then he's gonna be able to throw on top
of the things that he was able to learn from
the Kershaws of the world and the Dodgers of the
world to be able to not only pass those along
but really start putting into his game and said of Hey,
I just need to figure out how to make my
next start. Now it's how can I get better from
my last one? Because I know how to get ready
for my next one.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
And you mentioned Libby, who should be at the front
of the cardinal rotation. I just wrote down some names.
McGreevy may maybe Richard fitz is in there. Lay Hey,
who I think is definite, and Ollie Marmel really high
on lay Hey the starter. I think that'll pan out.
You got Polante, you got Quinn Matthews, maybe hence so Kyle.
(10:03):
As it sits now, and obviously there could be pieces added,
how do you look at the rotation? Who do you
think in the starting five in that group?
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Go need one more? They need one more, need two more,
maybe three.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
I get one for sure, I get one for sure,
and it's a guy that might have a little bit more.
I know I'm gonna get twenty five to thirty and
one hundred and forty to one hundred and sixty out
of you.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
I agree, probably a move to be made. But as
it sits right now, of the names I mentioned with
the asterisk that there could be another one, how do
you see the rotation for the first five, Because I'll
put the stipulation on there. You could go in with
six seven starters during spring training and say, okay, we
have pieces to back us up, and in most years
(10:49):
it's never enough. But as it sits now, how do
you see it either one of you guys.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
I see it as early in the season you have
quite a few off days built in, so a six
man rotation probably doesn't make sense. What I see early though,
especially with young guys, is maybe the ability everybody goes
that first couple starts and you're kind of limited pitches
just because maybe you're in cold weather. Maybe you know
(11:18):
you didn't get quite to one hundred pitches in spring training,
so they want to make sure they're building up that
endurance still. So I can kind of see a situation where,
especially with these young guys and guys that you want
to get experienced, Let's figure out which two or three
of these guys match up to go on the same day,
spread them out a couple of days, and you're not
doing a bullpen day, but you've got well, just I'm
(11:40):
gonna throw Quinn, Matthews and tink Kins out there. Those
two guys are going Game four, right, so it's going
to be after an off day. You know your bullpen
is gonna hopefully get a little bit of a break.
Let's not wear the bullpen out, give them two days off. Piggyback.
You know, Destiny doesn't need to be a piggyback. He's
full go. But if you don't sign another guy that
(12:02):
can get you the one forty or one sixty, and
I know Lance has a guy in mine probably who
can sign. If you don't get that guy, then I
think you go with six or seven of them. Probably
saves you from maybe needing to add a bullpen arm
and you say, hey, we're gonna protect you guys, but
we want you to get major league experienced right now,
and we think that you know, you can speed up
(12:23):
development if you're getting big lead hitters out matching a
guy with Lehi, I think is smarter. He's throwing what
maybe one hundred innings in his big league career, Like
you get just thrown up there five days. He's not
going to go one hundred and fifteen hundred and sixty innings.
So either I think you go with a six man
later on, or you just start with seven of these
guys up here and you piggyback them and let him
(12:45):
get as many innings as possible.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Give us the name Lance.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
The first thing that pops in my mind is is Gilita.
I think that he's in a proven phase of his career,
and I say this because I know him personally and
I know how he is in the game. He's very
sunny gray like in his ability to speak pitching, help pitching,
but he also posts, and he also knows the you know,
(13:10):
his ability to do the homework and all these things
that some of these young guys are going to have.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
To learn not only on their own but through a coach.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
But it's easier to learn it from a guy who's
done it and done it at a high level. And
I think Gildo has the ability to speak the language
that's needed for some of these young guys to take
on these roles that they're going to be given.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
And he you know, and he's had to.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Do it through that his time in uh Chicago before
I got there, and he had to learn a lot
of these things on his own, and then you know,
he was able to keep year by year building and
that's what these guys are trying to do at the
big bigue level.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
As Kyle was saying, is Hey, you.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Know, if we have three to four guys that are there,
and then we have four guys that we can say, hey,
you're going five and you're finishing it today, and we're
we're like that's kind of our thought process, because if
you get multiple innings under your belt, two to three
at a time, that's going to not only build confidence,
it's not gonna get you exposed as much, but it's
also going to give you a chance to actually work
(14:09):
through some things. You can go anybody can go out
there and get three outs with two pitches and good
stuff when they've never seen you, and they've got guys
that can do that. But how are we going to
get through the lineup one time? Okay, we figured out
how to do that, and now we're gonna get through
the lamp this second time? And how are we going
to manage ups and downs and multiple innings and these
guys seeing us more And we're gonna have to be
able to change on the fly. And that comes with
(14:29):
being able to do it having guys around that can
teach you to do it too.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Intriguing stuff, you know. The name Brendan Donovan has drawn
interest from pretty much every team around Major League Baseball now,
at least according to reports, two teams have emerged as
the front runner to trade for Brendan Donovan. We'll look
at that when we come back from break. You are
watching Cardinal Territory.
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Speaker 1 (15:56):
Cash app is a nice app in fact, have you
guys had it? Might text you and say, can I
bar a few dollars because I can't get into sky
Club and I don't even have clear yet. Before the break,
I was mentioning Brendan Donovan. Everybody likes Brendan Donovan. No
one wants to see Brendan Donovan traded, but him is
doing a reset which made you have to part with pieces.
(16:19):
You're probably not happy to do so, but you want
prospects in return. And according to a report in The Athletic,
the front runners now for the services of Brendan Donovan
or the Mariners and the Giants. Both teams have plenty
of prospects that they could possibly deal. Kyle, is there
(16:41):
a better fit in your in your view for Brendan Donovant?
Speaker 4 (16:46):
Yeah, Saint Louis you tuy player. So I don't want
to see him go anywhere. I mean, if I'm being
if I'm saying this selfishly with my pitching coach and
amazing baseball mentor Tony Vitello at the Helm in San Francisco,
(17:07):
Sure go to San Francisco because Brendan Donovan is a
Tony Vytello player. He is gonna love that guy, But
the best fit is the Cardinals. That's that's just where
it is.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
What do you think, Lance, No, I'm in a total agreeance.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
I hear a reset, right, You hear the reset saying
this guy is not like he's over thirty years old
and you know, on the wrong side of thirty as
they call it. So like, in my opinion, he's a
guy that hey, he's part of the now and the
after the reset, like he's this we're doing a year
reset and then we've got Donovan for another three after
(17:45):
that because I'm giving him a four or five year deal.
But if you're gonna sit here and say, hey, which
one do you like?
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Mark?
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Does he fit in San fran Yes, he fits anywhere.
That's the best part about it because that's why he's
a good player and everybody wants him. Here's my thing is,
if you're going to get him, you better get something
worthwhile for him. And it doesn't need to be three
double A players that might not ever make it. If
I'm trading him away, I need Bryce Miller or somebody
(18:11):
like that from from Seattle that I know I can
plug and play as my I've got May Miller, Livvy
All of a sudden. Now I can summach it if
that makes sense. But if I'm not, if I'm getting
a this guy was in Double A, this guy was
in Double A, this guy is.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
In high A, Hi A, and they're all top twenty prospects.
Who cares?
Speaker 2 (18:31):
That doesn't That doesn't make my team better and doesn't
make my It doesn't make it doesn't make anyone better
on the Cardinals because it doesn't make who any of
the guys that are there right now. It doesn't make
them better when they come up by losing Donnie. Donnie's
a guy that you say, hey, he's the in my opinion,
he's the next Matt Carpenter.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Hey, here's five year deal. You're our guy, and it's
going to be you. Mason.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
I even like Newt in that in that situation, and
then JJ Weatherhaak can kind of come as he goes
with it too.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
That's my opinion.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
But if you're trading, you better get you better get
a guy that's big league ready and that you can say,
here's what we got for him, and he's worth you know,
the upsides really high.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
I was looking at some of the prospects that both
teams have and to be honest, you can see a
clip here and there, but it's hard to judge lance.
As you point out, when you're dealing with guys at
the low levels of the miners, it's still a crapshoot,
even if they project out to be good Major leaguers.
But one guy that I found interesting. The Mariners have
(19:39):
a prospect twenty two year old Jerangelo Sindja, who was
a switch pitcher, I mean legitimately a switch pitcher, Kyle,
you ever heard of that before?
Speaker 4 (19:49):
Absolutely? Pat Van Ditti Creighton Blue Jays played against him
in college, and I think he actually made it to
the big leagues. He either made it to the Biggers
or made a higher pay pro ball.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Uh I think for a minute.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Yeah, crazy, You see a six finger glove out there,
and you're like, is that is that regulation size? What's
going on out there?
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Uh?
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Yeah, I mean it's it was interesting.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
I don't know much about him, Jim, but I if
I had to pick between the two, obviously I'm taking
the guy that I know is going to be a
staple with controllable big league experience. I look at what
the Angels and the Orioles do with Grayson Rodriguez and
Taylor Ward, and I'm saying, you tell me who's a
more valuable player over the next you know, however, many
(20:36):
years of control, either Taylor Word or Brendan Donovan. And
I think everybody's taking Brendan Donovan. So get me a
guy like that that you know, makes the other side
of the trade comparable, you know, on the pitching side,
that's where I'm That's where I'm looking at. But sure,
does the switch pitcher start or is he a reliever?
What do we got here, Jim? I mean prospect?
Speaker 1 (20:58):
He switched, so maybe there's an upside to him being
a two way switch it at both positions. I didn't
do that deep a dive. I just found that interesting.
But Lance, there is something to be said for if
you're doing a reset right, and as him has pointed out,
they want to be competitive and look towards the present.
(21:18):
Give the fans some to be excited about. But the
best way to do that, because the biggest currency in
Major League Baseball is a controllable talent, is stockpiling controllable
talent and building from there. You understand that.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Yeah, I understand what the concept is. But isn't that
what we've been doing since the trade deadline last year?
How many high AAA guys do we need to get
to stockpile the farm system now? I need to see
something that we're getting back ready for big league players,
especially for guys who are not on expiring contracts or
not over the age of thirty. Then you're looking at hey, okay,
(21:56):
you should be able to get multiple big league ready
players that should be on your opening A roster next year.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
For a guy like Donovan, a.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Guy like new those guys should be big league ready
players that should impact your team next year for losing
a guy like that.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
That's my opinion. I understand the.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Prospects, but we got four low A guys in the
last two trades that we might not ever see, right,
So it's time to start getting guys that we know
kind of who they are instead of oh, well he
could be this, he could be that. Well, it's like, no,
you're getting rid of a All Star. You're getting rid
of you know, a you know floor in New that
(22:35):
is a very good or a good major league player
could be a Printingal All Star of health and some
things go better his way, and then next thing you know, hey,
I want to see what I'm getting back now, because
that's if they're in double A or if they're in
triple A, you know what you're getting. If they got
a cup of coffee, you got a good idea, you've
got a book on them. But these high A guys
(22:56):
and stuff like that, you have no idea what they're
going to be. And I think it's risky as much
as it's oh, you need all these prospects, it's very.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Risky to get a bunch of loway hey guys.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Because you really don't know who how they're even going
to mature enough to even handle, you know, being a
major leaguer, because you don't even know what they're what
they're like mentally.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Yet quite well taken, one of the little news tidbits
could tell Marte has a no trade, but he has
some teams he's willing to accept the trade. The Cardinals
are on that list. Wilson Contreras has a no trade.
Supposedly he's willing to discuss possible trade locations. We've already
(23:36):
done that. So I'm gonna ask you, guys, you're a
major leaguer, Kyle with a no trade, what do you
think some of the things you're looking at in terms
of what would be a good landing spot for me
and my family.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Yeah, I mean if you're looking, if you're looking family wise,
then you know you're calling around, talking to people that
you know around the league and seeing and you know
that's somewhere you want to live seeing if it's you know,
probably not asking about the family and probably not asking
about stuff off the field as much for that, but
you're trying to look at it a little bit as
a free agent saying, Okay, what part of the country
(24:14):
don't don't I want to go to? What type of
what type of market do I not want to go to?
Hitting wise, if you're a hitter, what kind of field
do you not want to play on?
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (24:26):
Do you want to play on? Maybe he's looking at
opportunity to play, doesn't want to switch positions. I think
there's probably a lot that goes into that.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
How about you, Lance, And this is our last thing, Lance,
Lynn has a note trade, but they want to trade them.
What are you looking at?
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Lance?
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Well, I have I have fortunately lifted a no trade
in my in my in my day. So you look
at a lot of different variables. It starts with putting
the list together, right, My note trade was full of
teams that I thought would trade for me, so I
can control things, maybe even in new contract. Like there
was more said than that I didn't put teams there
(25:03):
on there were bad because I didn't plan on pitching,
and bad enough to where I would get traded to
those teams. And I was making too much money for
those teams to even take me. So my thought was,
all right, I'm we'll put all the teams on there
that I know that we'll be looking to add a
veteran starter and aren't afraid of the money, and then
I can control the market on where I'm going to
go and what I can do. And that was my
(25:25):
mindset and the no trade, and then I lifted it
to LA. There's I would say most every team on
my no trade a year I left Chicago I would
have went to. So it was one of those things
where I had a ten team no trade, but I
picked at ten teams that I thought were going to
be in the playoffs so I can control where I
was going to go.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
I wasn't worried about the pirates.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
I was not playing, and everyone's like, oh, what if
you would have got traded somewhere you didn't want to
go that wasn't in the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
It was simple. Kyle's heard this before. I'll just take
my ass home if I don't want to go there.
I'm not worried about.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
You always have a no trade jam if you don't
give a damn what people think.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
That's awesome, that is awesome. That's gonna do it for this.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
I was there. I was there when I pulled.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
I had a no trade in Texas without a no trade, So.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
You don't need a no trade to have a no trade.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
Will never I will never forget those conversations like, well,
what if you go here? He's like, I'm not going there.
What do you mean you don't have a no trade?
I've got a no trade.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Everyone's gonna what Yeah, And I use that. I use
that no trade with no trade in Texas is great.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Well, you also got to be sitting on a nice
bag as the kids saying, oh you like that, Kyle, uh, because.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
One in the show, one bag, We'll get you.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
That's gonna do it for this edition of Cardinal Territory.
If you're watching on YouTube, go ahead like and subscribe.
If you're listening to us on a podcast, give us
some of the five stars. Uh do it for the guys.
They're they're likable, and their knowledgeable. That's gonna do it
for this episode. We'll see you next time. Hopefully that
episode won't suck.
Speaker 5 (27:08):
Mm hmmmm mmm mmmmm mm hmmmmmmmm
When you see those birds, you know it's time for
another edition of Cardinal Territory. Jim Hay is alongside Lance
Lynn and Kyle Gibson. A lot to get to on
this edition, but kinle of, if you don't mind, Lance
had a problem traveling, and I'd like to get the
story because there was bad weather in New York and
(00:28):
he had to spend a lot of time at the airport.
And because I care not just about the show, what
about you two and met holidays individuals. I would like
to hear Lance's story.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Oh you know, it's a lovely, beautiful New York snow day.
You know, you wake up on Sunday morning, You're like, man,
we've got an early flight. We had a beautiful you know,
we got to see the rockets. Mama Mia, the kids
loved it, Wife loved it. Everybody's happy. Snowing. It's it's
snowing so bad. Kyle, you can't even see City Field
(01:02):
from LaGuardia, That's how bad it is. You know, you
came and see it across there. So yeah, so we
sat there from We sat there from six am to
five pm, just hoping our fight didn't get canceled because
there was probably half a flights got canceled that morning,
and they just kept pushing it back. I saw, I
saw Jeff Mathis of all people in the airport with
(01:25):
his family.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
They did the same. Yeah, it was you know, it
was just like a little reunion in the airport, you know.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
But you know we were sloming it in the sky club,
so we weren't hurting by any means.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
So you know, so so buts I got to go
to the sky club.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Got it naturally. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
So yeah, if you want to see former teammates in
or in New York Airport LaGuardia, it's going to be
in the sky club or or you're.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Not going to see it.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
So yeah, so just a good old fashioned sky club day,
you know, tough, tough tickets for the kids. Uh, you know,
they had to travel tough. So only thing would have
been better is if we went privately. I don't think
we would have got out of either.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
So part of the gig this time of year in
New York, you know that you got to deal with
the weather.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Sky club membership.
Speaker 4 (02:12):
No, no, Jim, I think Lan's going to have answered
that right off the rip. We don't have that c Hey,
if he did, Is it Bragg because.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
I know that.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Yeah, we talked about clear and tsa pre check, you know,
last time. So I think Jim is that's kind of
where we're at. You know, you're in the sky club.
I'm in Clear, Jim is going to be in clear.
You know. It's we're in three different three different areas there.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
No question about it. Well, the Cardinals did make a move.
They signed Dustin May to a one year free agent contract.
Twenty eight year old right hander seven and eleven last
year between the Dodgers and the Red Sox. You're a
four point nine to six on the positive side over
one hundred and thirty two innings pitch, which is a
(02:59):
major lead high for him, electric stuff earlier in his career,
no question about that. But the problem has been injuries,
he said Tommy John. Then he had the extra Tommy
John to fix the earlier Tommy John. He said, forearm.
He had an esophagus tear that cost him a lot
of time after he choked on a piece of lettuce.
(03:23):
So the talent is there. My opinion is this is
a no brainer. It's a low risk, one year deal,
high reward because this guy at his best is really
really good and he appears to be healthy. Now, So Kyle,
you're nodding, I'm gonna start with you. How do you
look at this move?
Speaker 4 (03:41):
Yeah? I like it a lot. I think he's a
guy that, like you said, has the upside with that
electric stuff. I think he can end up being somebody
that is a game changer for the rotation if he
has another full season. I haven't looked at his outliers
and kind of the advanced numbers to see, you know,
(04:02):
maybe what that fIF is. Maybe he had a couple
outings in that one hundred and thirty innings that you know,
inflated that era a a little bit, but nearly a strikeout. Parenting,
he's got some funk to his delivery, throws hard, and
I'm trying to remember the most recent injury here last
year was that his first full season off of that
most recent tom of John. So I think that the
(04:24):
farther you get away from that, I think the better
he's going to be.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
For him in there too, Lance, what are your thoughts.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Like positive, Kyle said, you're looking at young with good stuff,
low risk ause a one year. You know he's got
a you know, high spin sweeper. You know, great sinker.
The strikeouts are there, could even be more with this
stuff he has. That's something for Dusty to play with.
And uh so here's the here's the negative. I think
(04:53):
that you look at it, it's like, man, he threw
one hundred and thirty two innings and that's the most ever.
But as as Kyle was talking about, you're looking at
his probably is really a second full year of actually
pitching away from the last Tommy John. I think that's
when you kind of hit your stride. You look at
the age. The age is in a good spot. He's
trending in the direction of Hey, you know, if it's
(05:13):
one hundred and thirty innings now it's one hundred and fifty,
maybe one hundred and sixty. And the note that I
had on him and from get go, I gotta spend
a little time with him in LA when he was
dealing with all the injuries.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
He's a great guy.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Everybody loves him, and he comes from World Series pedigree, really,
and you're looking at a rotation that needs somebody that
has been in situations done it.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Obviously, he's you know, could have been in more with health.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
But you're looking at a guy who's been in a
championship organization, has been taught how to do a lot
of different things. When it comes to pitching, the way
that the Dodgers teach pitching could be really huge for
some of these younger pitchers. I mean, heck younger that
he's only like two years older than all these guys
because he's only twenty eight years.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Old, but his ability to maybe communicate eight with those.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Guys and stuff like that, it's going to be huge
for a young group trying to establish themselves. And he's
still trying to establish himself, but he's still still had success,
especially in the playoffs and stuff like that, and has
a couple of world serious strings to show for it
being a part of a good organization in La So
I think all in all, it's gonna be a good
a good spot for him.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
He's a ginger, I want to point that out. And
also kind of when there's a guy who was like
considered like the future for the Dodgers, right, and then
the injuries you know, getting away, and then there's one
then there's something inside each professional athlete, especially a guy
is lance point that has performed at a high level.
There's that hunger to get back there isn't there.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
Yeah, for sure. I think injuries are something that easily
eat it's at you as is I think, you know,
poor performance, you know, I think, yeah, he's gonna want
to go out there and and at least to himself,
even say, man, another full season, I know I can
pitch even better. I know I can feel even better
(07:05):
going to a great city, to live in a great ballpark,
to pitch in a team that you know he probably
has the ability to, you know, like Lance said, and
be that veteran, be the guy that you know, kind
of leads a pitching staff maybe for the first time ever,
which I know for me that was pretty exciting. That
was an interesting, uh dynamic. When I got you know,
(07:26):
signed with Baltimore in twenty twenty three, was figuring out
all right, now I can kind of put into work
here what Lance has ingrained him in the last three
years of being with him. So hopefully he enjoys that.
Hopefully that's something that you know, he can run with,
and you know, I think he's really gonna like it
in Saint Louis, and I think this is what we've
talked about the last couple of shows here. I feel
like is find these guys that have the ability to
(07:48):
make your players better as they get better and as
you feel like you can help them. And then if
you end up being a playoff team, which I think
they can, you keep him and you go the full year,
and now you're like, man, we just got lightning in
a bottle. If he throws really well and the team struggles,
he's a guy that you can trade away. And I'm
sure that's gonna be part of the understanding going into this.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
And either way, it's a one year deal, which is
really a no brainer. And Lance, looked back on your
own career, I think twenty eight is like the ideal
age for a pitcher, especially if he can put those
injuries in the rear view mirror.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Yeah, and like I said, he was brought up in
an organization.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
He knows how to pitch, and he's when he's been
on the field, he's been really good before injuries. Last
year was your like, people don't realize that first like
full year of getting back the ins and outs of
how your elbow feels and the things you have to
deal with because he hadn't pitched in what two years
at that point, give or take, you know, He's had
(08:49):
some spots here there where he's been healthy, but he
hasn't had time to really get his feet under him.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
He had to go through some ups and downs last year.
You're gonna have.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Indians and you're gonna have days when you just don't
have your stuff because you haven't been able to navigate
a season. It's a similar thing that we're talking about Libby.
Last year it was his first full season doing it right.
This has been his first full season in a long
time doing it. You have to relearn who you are,
and I think he still knows he's got this stuff
to do it now. That confidence is going to come
(09:19):
because he was able to put those Indians under his belt,
and then he's gonna be able to throw on top
of the things that he was able to learn from
the Kershaws of the world and the Dodgers of the
world to be able to not only pass those along
but really start putting into his game and said of Hey,
I just need to figure out how to make my
next start. Now it's how can I get better from
my last one? Because I know how to get ready
for my next one.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
And you mentioned Libby, who should be at the front
of the cardinal rotation. I just wrote down some names.
McGreevy may maybe Richard fitz is in there. Lay Hey,
who I think is definite, and Ollie Marmel really high
on lay Hey the starter. I think that'll pan out.
You got Polante, you got Quinn Matthews, maybe hence so Kyle.
(10:03):
As it sits now, and obviously there could be pieces added,
how do you look at the rotation? Who do you
think in the starting five in that group?
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Go need one more? They need one more, need two more,
maybe three.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
I get one for sure, I get one for sure,
and it's a guy that might have a little bit more.
I know I'm gonna get twenty five to thirty and
one hundred and forty to one hundred and sixty out
of you.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
I agree, probably a move to be made. But as
it sits right now, of the names I mentioned with
the asterisk that there could be another one, how do
you see the rotation for the first five, Because I'll
put the stipulation on there. You could go in with
six seven starters during spring training and say, okay, we
have pieces to back us up, and in most years
(10:49):
it's never enough. But as it sits now, how do
you see it either one of you guys.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
I see it as early in the season you have
quite a few off days built in, so a six
man rotation probably doesn't make sense. What I see early though,
especially with young guys, is maybe the ability everybody goes
that first couple starts and you're kind of limited pitches
just because maybe you're in cold weather. Maybe you know
(11:18):
you didn't get quite to one hundred pitches in spring training,
so they want to make sure they're building up that
endurance still. So I can kind of see a situation where,
especially with these young guys and guys that you want
to get experienced, Let's figure out which two or three
of these guys match up to go on the same day,
spread them out a couple of days, and you're not
doing a bullpen day, but you've got well, just I'm
(11:40):
gonna throw Quinn, Matthews and tink Kins out there. Those
two guys are going Game four, right, so it's going
to be after an off day. You know your bullpen
is gonna hopefully get a little bit of a break.
Let's not wear the bullpen out, give them two days off. Piggyback.
You know, Destiny doesn't need to be a piggyback. He's
full go. But if you don't sign another guy that
(12:02):
can get you the one forty or one sixty, and
I know Lance has a guy in mine probably who
can sign. If you don't get that guy, then I
think you go with six or seven of them. Probably
saves you from maybe needing to add a bullpen arm
and you say, hey, we're gonna protect you guys, but
we want you to get major league experienced right now,
and we think that you know, you can speed up
(12:23):
development if you're getting big lead hitters out matching a
guy with Lehi, I think is smarter. He's throwing what
maybe one hundred innings in his big league career, Like
you get just thrown up there five days. He's not
going to go one hundred and fifteen hundred and sixty innings.
So either I think you go with a six man
later on, or you just start with seven of these
guys up here and you piggyback them and let him
(12:45):
get as many innings as possible.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Give us the name Lance.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
The first thing that pops in my mind is is Gilita.
I think that he's in a proven phase of his career,
and I say this because I know him personally and
I know how he is in the game. He's very
sunny gray like in his ability to speak pitching, help pitching,
but he also posts, and he also knows the you know,
(13:10):
his ability to do the homework and all these things
that some of these young guys are going to have.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
To learn not only on their own but through a coach.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
But it's easier to learn it from a guy who's
done it and done it at a high level. And
I think Gildo has the ability to speak the language
that's needed for some of these young guys to take
on these roles that they're going to be given.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
And he you know, and he's had to.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Do it through that his time in uh Chicago before
I got there, and he had to learn a lot
of these things on his own, and then you know,
he was able to keep year by year building and
that's what these guys are trying to do at the
big bigue level.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
As Kyle was saying, is Hey, you.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Know, if we have three to four guys that are there,
and then we have four guys that we can say, hey,
you're going five and you're finishing it today, and we're
we're like that's kind of our thought process, because if
you get multiple innings under your belt, two to three
at a time, that's going to not only build confidence,
it's not gonna get you exposed as much, but it's
also going to give you a chance to actually work
(14:09):
through some things. You can go anybody can go out
there and get three outs with two pitches and good
stuff when they've never seen you, and they've got guys
that can do that. But how are we going to
get through the lineup one time? Okay, we figured out
how to do that, and now we're gonna get through
the lamp this second time? And how are we going
to manage ups and downs and multiple innings and these
guys seeing us more And we're gonna have to be
able to change on the fly. And that comes with
(14:29):
being able to do it having guys around that can
teach you to do it too.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Intriguing stuff, you know. The name Brendan Donovan has drawn
interest from pretty much every team around Major League Baseball now,
at least according to reports, two teams have emerged as
the front runner to trade for Brendan Donovan. We'll look
at that when we come back from break. You are
watching Cardinal Territory.
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Speaker 1 (15:56):
Cash app is a nice app in fact, have you
guys had it? Might text you and say, can I
bar a few dollars because I can't get into sky
Club and I don't even have clear yet. Before the break,
I was mentioning Brendan Donovan. Everybody likes Brendan Donovan. No
one wants to see Brendan Donovan traded, but him is
doing a reset which made you have to part with pieces.
(16:19):
You're probably not happy to do so, but you want
prospects in return. And according to a report in The Athletic,
the front runners now for the services of Brendan Donovan
or the Mariners and the Giants. Both teams have plenty
of prospects that they could possibly deal. Kyle, is there
(16:41):
a better fit in your in your view for Brendan Donovant?
Speaker 4 (16:46):
Yeah, Saint Louis you tuy player. So I don't want
to see him go anywhere. I mean, if I'm being
if I'm saying this selfishly with my pitching coach and
amazing baseball mentor Tony Vitello at the Helm in San Francisco,
(17:07):
Sure go to San Francisco because Brendan Donovan is a
Tony Vytello player. He is gonna love that guy, But
the best fit is the Cardinals. That's that's just where
it is.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
What do you think, Lance, No, I'm in a total agreeance.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
I hear a reset, right, You hear the reset saying
this guy is not like he's over thirty years old
and you know, on the wrong side of thirty as
they call it. So like, in my opinion, he's a
guy that hey, he's part of the now and the
after the reset, like he's this we're doing a year
reset and then we've got Donovan for another three after
(17:45):
that because I'm giving him a four or five year deal.
But if you're gonna sit here and say, hey, which
one do you like?
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Mark?
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Does he fit in San fran Yes, he fits anywhere.
That's the best part about it because that's why he's
a good player and everybody wants him. Here's my thing is,
if you're going to get him, you better get something
worthwhile for him. And it doesn't need to be three
double A players that might not ever make it. If
I'm trading him away, I need Bryce Miller or somebody
(18:11):
like that from from Seattle that I know I can
plug and play as my I've got May Miller, Livvy
All of a sudden. Now I can summach it if
that makes sense. But if I'm not, if I'm getting
a this guy was in Double A, this guy was
in Double A, this guy is.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
In high A, Hi A, and they're all top twenty prospects.
Who cares?
Speaker 2 (18:31):
That doesn't That doesn't make my team better and doesn't
make my It doesn't make it doesn't make anyone better
on the Cardinals because it doesn't make who any of
the guys that are there right now. It doesn't make
them better when they come up by losing Donnie. Donnie's
a guy that you say, hey, he's the in my opinion,
he's the next Matt Carpenter.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Hey, here's five year deal. You're our guy, and it's
going to be you. Mason.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
I even like Newt in that in that situation, and
then JJ Weatherhaak can kind of come as he goes
with it too.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
That's my opinion.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
But if you're trading, you better get you better get
a guy that's big league ready and that you can say,
here's what we got for him, and he's worth you know,
the upsides really high.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
I was looking at some of the prospects that both
teams have and to be honest, you can see a
clip here and there, but it's hard to judge lance.
As you point out, when you're dealing with guys at
the low levels of the miners, it's still a crapshoot,
even if they project out to be good Major leaguers.
But one guy that I found interesting. The Mariners have
(19:39):
a prospect twenty two year old Jerangelo Sindja, who was
a switch pitcher, I mean legitimately a switch pitcher, Kyle,
you ever heard of that before?
Speaker 4 (19:49):
Absolutely? Pat Van Ditti Creighton Blue Jays played against him
in college, and I think he actually made it to
the big leagues. He either made it to the Biggers
or made a higher pay pro ball.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Uh I think for a minute.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Yeah, crazy, You see a six finger glove out there,
and you're like, is that is that regulation size? What's
going on out there?
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Uh?
Speaker 4 (20:11):
Yeah, I mean it's it was interesting.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
I don't know much about him, Jim, but I if
I had to pick between the two, obviously I'm taking
the guy that I know is going to be a
staple with controllable big league experience. I look at what
the Angels and the Orioles do with Grayson Rodriguez and
Taylor Ward, and I'm saying, you tell me who's a
more valuable player over the next you know, however, many
(20:36):
years of control, either Taylor Word or Brendan Donovan. And
I think everybody's taking Brendan Donovan. So get me a
guy like that that you know, makes the other side
of the trade comparable, you know, on the pitching side,
that's where I'm That's where I'm looking at. But sure,
does the switch pitcher start or is he a reliever?
What do we got here, Jim? I mean prospect?
Speaker 1 (20:58):
He switched, so maybe there's an upside to him being
a two way switch it at both positions. I didn't
do that deep a dive. I just found that interesting.
But Lance, there is something to be said for if
you're doing a reset right, and as him has pointed out,
they want to be competitive and look towards the present.
(21:18):
Give the fans some to be excited about. But the
best way to do that, because the biggest currency in
Major League Baseball is a controllable talent, is stockpiling controllable
talent and building from there. You understand that.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Yeah, I understand what the concept is. But isn't that
what we've been doing since the trade deadline last year?
How many high AAA guys do we need to get
to stockpile the farm system now? I need to see
something that we're getting back ready for big league players,
especially for guys who are not on expiring contracts or
not over the age of thirty. Then you're looking at hey, okay,
(21:56):
you should be able to get multiple big league ready
players that should be on your opening A roster next year.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
For a guy like Donovan, a.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Guy like new those guys should be big league ready
players that should impact your team next year for losing
a guy like that.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
That's my opinion. I understand the.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Prospects, but we got four low A guys in the
last two trades that we might not ever see, right,
So it's time to start getting guys that we know
kind of who they are instead of oh, well he
could be this, he could be that. Well, it's like, no,
you're getting rid of a All Star. You're getting rid
of you know, a you know floor in New that
(22:35):
is a very good or a good major league player
could be a Printingal All Star of health and some
things go better his way, and then next thing you know, hey,
I want to see what I'm getting back now, because
that's if they're in double A or if they're in
triple A, you know what you're getting. If they got
a cup of coffee, you got a good idea, you've
got a book on them. But these high A guys
(22:56):
and stuff like that, you have no idea what they're
going to be. And I think it's risky as much
as it's oh, you need all these prospects, it's very.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Risky to get a bunch of loway hey guys.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Because you really don't know who how they're even going
to mature enough to even handle, you know, being a
major leaguer, because you don't even know what they're what
they're like mentally.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Yet quite well taken, one of the little news tidbits
could tell Marte has a no trade, but he has
some teams he's willing to accept the trade. The Cardinals
are on that list. Wilson Contreras has a no trade.
Supposedly he's willing to discuss possible trade locations. We've already
(23:36):
done that. So I'm gonna ask you, guys, you're a
major leaguer, Kyle with a no trade, what do you
think some of the things you're looking at in terms
of what would be a good landing spot for me
and my family.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Yeah, I mean if you're looking, if you're looking family wise,
then you know you're calling around, talking to people that
you know around the league and seeing and you know
that's somewhere you want to live seeing if it's you know,
probably not asking about the family and probably not asking
about stuff off the field as much for that, but
you're trying to look at it a little bit as
a free agent saying, Okay, what part of the country
(24:14):
don't don't I want to go to? What type of
what type of market do I not want to go to?
Hitting wise, if you're a hitter, what kind of field
do you not want to play on?
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (24:26):
Do you want to play on? Maybe he's looking at
opportunity to play, doesn't want to switch positions. I think
there's probably a lot that goes into that.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
How about you, Lance, And this is our last thing, Lance,
Lynn has a note trade, but they want to trade them.
What are you looking at?
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Lance?
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Well, I have I have fortunately lifted a no trade
in my in my in my day. So you look
at a lot of different variables. It starts with putting
the list together, right, My note trade was full of
teams that I thought would trade for me, so I
can control things, maybe even in new contract. Like there
was more said than that I didn't put teams there
(25:03):
on there were bad because I didn't plan on pitching,
and bad enough to where I would get traded to
those teams. And I was making too much money for
those teams to even take me. So my thought was,
all right, I'm we'll put all the teams on there
that I know that we'll be looking to add a
veteran starter and aren't afraid of the money, and then
I can control the market on where I'm going to
go and what I can do. And that was my
(25:25):
mindset and the no trade, and then I lifted it
to LA. There's I would say most every team on
my no trade a year I left Chicago I would
have went to. So it was one of those things
where I had a ten team no trade, but I
picked at ten teams that I thought were going to
be in the playoffs so I can control where I
was going to go.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
I wasn't worried about the pirates.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
I was not playing, and everyone's like, oh, what if
you would have got traded somewhere you didn't want to
go that wasn't in the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
It was simple. Kyle's heard this before. I'll just take
my ass home if I don't want to go there.
I'm not worried about.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
You always have a no trade jam if you don't
give a damn what people think.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
That's awesome, that is awesome. That's gonna do it for this.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
I was there. I was there when I pulled.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
I had a no trade in Texas without a no trade, So.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
You don't need a no trade to have a no trade.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
Will never I will never forget those conversations like, well,
what if you go here? He's like, I'm not going there.
What do you mean you don't have a no trade?
I've got a no trade.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Everyone's gonna what Yeah, And I use that. I use
that no trade with no trade in Texas is great.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Well, you also got to be sitting on a nice
bag as the kids saying, oh you like that, Kyle, uh, because.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
One in the show, one bag, We'll get you.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
That's gonna do it for this edition of Cardinal Territory.
If you're watching on YouTube, go ahead like and subscribe.
If you're listening to us on a podcast, give us
some of the five stars. Uh do it for the guys.
They're they're likable, and their knowledgeable. That's gonna do it
for this episode. We'll see you next time. Hopefully that
episode won't suck.
Speaker 5 (27:08):
Mm hmmmm mmm mmmmm mm hmmmmmmmm
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