December 8, 2025 • 25 mins
Ken Rosenthal unpacks the veterna's committee Baseball Hall of Fame vote that elected Jeff Kent and left Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens on the sidelines. (Top of show)
(5:06) Ken shares his reporting that the Pirates have a 4-year offer out to free agent Kyle Schwarber.
(6:11) Hear from Ken on why the time is now for the Tigers to make a move in the AL Central.
(10:45) Inside Dish reflects Winter Meetings lore.
(18:15) Grillin’ Ken answers your questions, including if the Nationals could trade Mackenzie Gore to the Orioles, Cubs Zac Gallen interest, chances Schwarber signs with the Reds, Braves changes at 2B and if the Padres will dump payroll.
Subscribe to the FT YouTube channel to watch this show live every week!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome everyone to the Monday edition of Fair Territory, the
Winter Meetings edition of Fair Territory. We've got a ton
to get to this morning. Hall of Fame things happening
at the Winter Meetings. Not too much happening just yet,
but I would expect over the next couple of days
we will have some action. The expectation is that, yes,
some deals will go down, trades, free agent signings and
(00:24):
the like. So let's get right to the news of
the day, which is the Hall of Fame vote from
last night, the Contemporary Era Committee electing Jeff Kent to
the Hall of Fame. He is the newest Hall of
Famer and it was an interesting ballot, to say the least,
the eight names. I had no problem with any of
these guys getting elected, but of course Kent was the
(00:46):
only one who ultimately received twelve of the sixteen votes
seventy five percent from that committee, and that is why
he will be the inductee from this group going into
the Hall of Fame. Carlos Delgado nine votes, again needing twelve.
Mattingley and Murphy got six eight. You see the vote
totals right there, Kent with fourteen, Delgatto nine, Mattinglee, Murphy six,
(01:09):
and then Bonds, Clemens, Sheffield and balance Well all less
than five. And what that means is they will not
be eligible those guys with less than five votes in
the next cycle three years from now, and if they
get less than five in twenty thirty one, the next
time they are eligible, they will not be ever on
(01:30):
the ballot any ballot again. So for Bonds and Clemens
in particular, they're in real peril here of not getting
into the Hall of Fame. We've seen this now through
ten years of BBWA votes, We've seen it through two
committee votes now is not surprising. And at the same time,
I know there are certain people who are good with
this and there are certain fans people who are not
(01:52):
good with it at all. When they were on the
bout the BBWA ballot, I did not initially vote for them,
but once I felt that there are other Hall of
famers who were getting elected that had used performance dancing drugs.
I'm not gonna mention names, but once I felt that
it'd been happening, that line had been broken, then I
did vote for Bonds and Clemens. I don't vote for
(02:14):
guys who tested positive or were suspended by Major League
Baseball after Firmer rules were in place, a Rod and Manny,
but the ones before that, generally, yes, I do vote
for them, not all of them. Socide didn't get to
in time, MacGuire, etc. But enough about that. The real
question here is how do we deal with this era?
(02:34):
And it's still the question, and unfortunately the BBWAA and
these committees don't have great answers because we know there
are Hall of Famers who used peds. It's a reasonable
assumption at this point there are some players who have
been linked to peds in one form or another. And
then we know also that Bonds and Clemens, arguably the
(02:56):
greatest hitter and pitcher of this generation, are not in
I'm not sure what the right answer is. There really
is no right answer. And yes, if you're a fan
and you see contradictions, you're absolutely right. There are contradictions.
But these are the votes. And if you look at
the committee, the guys who rejected Bonds and Clemens this time,
(03:17):
it's interesting because there were seven Hall of famers on
that committee, players who are not exactly contemporaries, all of
them with Bonds and Clemens, but certainly players that had
some familiarity with them, to say the least. Fergie Jenkins,
Jim Cott, Juan marischal Tony Perez, Ozzie Smith, and Alan
Trammel were the players on that committee, along with Robin Yeat.
(03:37):
Then there were five executives actually six and three researcher
writer types. So that is the group that decided no.
And again you're not seeing any greater support on these committees,
which are comprised partly actually the majority or not the majority,
but of good number of Hall of Fame members. They're
(03:58):
not giving Bonds and Clemens any more quarter than the
writers did when they were on the Writer's bout. One
other thing I want to mention with the Hall of Fame,
and it's interesting, Jeff Kent certainly were the most home
runs ever by a second basement. I voted for him
when he was on the BBWAA ballot. But when you
elect guys then people often say, well what about this
guy or that guy? And I want to show you
(04:19):
a comp with Lou Whittaker, between Kent and Lou Whittaker,
because Lou Whitaker fell off the baut in his first year.
And I am hopeful that one day a Veterans Committee
or one of these committees is going to recognize him
as the rightful Hall of Famer he is along with
Alan Trammel. You see this graphic here, the comparison from
Stadhead Baseball that CJ. Nikowski posted last night. They're very
(04:41):
comparable players. Yes, Kent had more power, but Lou Whittaker
in his day was every bit the player. Jeff Kent
was a different kind of player perhaps, but man, it's
pretty close. Lou Whitaker should be in. This should be
good news for Chase Utley as well going forward. So
that's the Hall of Fame vote. We can debate it
all day long, and I'm sure people will, but that's
(05:02):
where we are with that as of Monday, December eighth. Now,
Winter Meetings last night reported something that I thought was
pretty interesting, to say the least, and I was surprised
to hear it that the Pirates have made a four
year offer to Kyle Schwarber. Now, do I expect the
Pirates to sign Kyle Schwarber, Absolutely not, but the fact
(05:23):
that they're in there swinging and I imagine and I
reported that this offer almost certainly is for more than
one hundred million. Otherwise why bother. That is a major step.
And I've been reporting all winter really or all off
season about how the Pirates are being more aggressive, how
they finally are trying to put a team around Paul
Skeins that would be worthy of contention. Schwarber is at
(05:47):
the top of their list. They know he is probably
going to be someone who gets a better offer from
a better team. But at the same time, they're in there,
the Cincinnati Reds are in there. There are other big
market teams in there, like the Boston Red Sox. So Schwarber,
it's not clear exactly when he's going to sign yet.
Maybe it will be at these meetings, maybe not, but
(06:08):
he clearly is in demand now. I also wrote today
about another team that is somewhat in a comparable position
to the Pirates because they have a great picture their
own sy young winner. That's the Tigers with Trek Scrubele. Now,
what I wrote about the Tigers was a column. It
was opinion, and at the same time it was something
(06:28):
I felt strongly about because to me, if the Tigers
are going to keep Trek Scruble not trade him, which
appears to be the case, you never know, but certainly
it appears to be the way they are leaning. Unless
they get overwhelmed, then you've got one year of Schooble left.
In my view, you've got to take your best shot.
And I'm not talking about doing something stupid. I'm talking
(06:50):
about putting the best team possible around him. Tiger's President
Baseball Operation, Scott Harris, in my view, has been pretty
risk of a verse in his time for reasons that
are understandable. He was trying to build up a team
that had fallen apart. But at the same time, here
are a situation, or here is a situation where it
(07:13):
seems to me it's time to go. And again, I
don't know who the players are that they should get. Necessarily,
they can certainly use another bat. We know that. We
also know that they could use a number two starter
behind Schooble, someone who, if they signed long term, could
be Schooble's replacement. Should he leave as a free agent, Yes,
I expect him to leave as a free agent. He's
(07:34):
represented by Scott Boris. He's one year away. He's going
to hit the jackpop probably break yamamotos three hundred and
twenty five million dollar record for a pitcher as a
free agent as long as he is healthy, and if
that happens, the Tigers are left with a draft pick
and only a draft pick in return. That said, I
like that they're pretty stubborn right now about keeping him.
(07:58):
They want to keep him, they want to win with him. Well, okay,
but if you want to win with him, then you've
got to do some things around him. And I mentioned
some name Calm Gregman. Obviously, they made the six year,
one hundred and seventy one point five million dollar offer
to him last winter. He didn't take it. He took
less from the Red Sox. I wouldn't expect him to
(08:18):
necessarily choose Detroit over any of the teams that might
be interested in him this offseason when he already rejected
them once when they had a higher guarantee on the table.
Boba Schett would be an interesting player for the Tigers.
Hashan Kim would be an interesting player for the Tigers.
The pitching market is not quite as impressive as you
(08:40):
would want it to be, and the executives keep telling
me and others that they're not all that impressed with
the remaining group, which is Ranger Suarez and Sachua am
I and from er Valdez. The good pitchers, no question
about it. But I don't know that anyone is overwhelmed
by their abilities on a long term, not the way
(09:00):
they would be with perhaps a schoobl next year or
Paul Skins once he becomes a free agent. So here
are the Tigers. They're in an interesting spot here, and
I get that they don't want to block younger players.
I get that with Javier Bayez a few years ago
it didn't work out for them, but it shouldn't prevent
a team from trying again. It's not easy. But at
(09:24):
the same time, we've seen with the Orioles, keep playing
for next year, keep waiting for these prospects. It doesn't
always go in a linear fashion. So from that perspective,
I'm concerned with the Tigers. I want to see them
do something this offseason. A few things really show up
their bullpen as well, to ensure that win, to ensure
(09:45):
that in their final season, what likely is their final
season with Trek Scubel, they take their best shot. All Right,
That is it for the first segment. We've got a
long way to go here. We've got inside Dish coming up.
Catch Foul Territory Live from the Winter Meeting in Orlando
later today through Wednesday one pm Eastern on the FT
YouTube channel, Ali Marble, Terry Franconis, Stephen Vote, and Paul
(10:08):
Taboni our schedule to join Scott Braun, Aj Prasinski and
Eric Kraftz today. That's a really good guest list. Subscribe
on YouTube and rate five stars wherever you get your
podcast to the entire foul Territory network. We'll be back
with the Inside Dish right after this.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Hey, when you get a chance, subscribe to foul Territory
on YouTube. We are getting very close to three hundred
thousand subscribers on the channel and love all of them,
so we'd love you to join us on that channel
as we break down everything going on across the sport.
It is baseball the way it should be covered at
foul Territory. Give us a sub well well, well.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Well, all right, Time out for the Inside Dish, the
part of the show where I go inside a story
of written a trend in the game, talk about something
else entire and today I want to talk about what
it's like to cover the Winter Meetings. Now, I've been
at this a long time. I'm a little older than
(11:08):
some of the other writers right now, Okay, whatever, And
I try very hard not to look back and say, man,
it was better back then. But you know what, covering
the Winter Meetings was a better experience earlier in my career,
and even before I started covering. It's gotten more buttoned
down over the years, more conservative in what teams do
(11:31):
and all of that. I'm not saying teams shouldn't act
as efficiently as possible. I'm just saying that back in
the day, and I'm going to give you some stories
to show you what I'm talking about. There were some
wilder things going on than there seemed to be at
the meetings in these last few years or so. So
there's one story. I have my favorite Winter Meeting story
(11:52):
that I'm saving for my book if I ever write
a book. It's too good to talk about here. It's
too good to write for the Athletic. It's for a book.
I'm not going to get into that. But I want
to go back in time a little bit. Now. I'll
go back to start with before my time, nineteen seventy five,
the Diplomat Hotel in Hollywood, Florida. Rowand Heeman, general manager
of the Chicago White Sox, the late rowand Haeman. I
(12:14):
covered him with the Oriols. One of the great people
in our game. He was working for Bill Beck and
Rowan Haeman set up a table in the lobby of
the Diplomat Hotel, put up a sign and said open
for business. The White Sox then made four trades in
I don't know, a span of an hour something like that.
Big trades too. Mickey Lowich was involved in one rusty
(12:35):
stob Ralph Gorr. That was maybe the peak winter meeting's
craziness moment. You don't see GM's in the lobby today.
They're in their suites, they're huddled up, they're texting. There
was no texting back then. There were phones. There were
actual phones that worked. But that's how rowand Heeman did it.
All right, that's nineteen seventy five. Now let's go back
(12:56):
a little bit closer to the current time. My star
in nineteen eighty seven, and some of my favorite Winter
meetings have been in the last I don't know, twenty
years or so, two thousand and six, right here in Orlando,
legendary winter meetings, different hotel. Jim Hendry, then general manager
of the Chicago Cubs. He's now working for the Yankees
for Brian Cashman. Jim Hendry signed Ted Lilly to a
(13:20):
four year, forty million dollars deal while hooked up to
an EKG. He was having heard trouble and it turned
out he needed a procedure at another hospital later during
those winter meetings, but he did sign Lily even though
he was hooked up to an EKG. Incredible story and
(13:40):
luckily Jim is still with us and survived that whole affair.
That's one of the crazier things that I can remember
now twenty twelve. Wait, two thousand and seven. This is
one of the bigger ones I've ever broken. Back in
the day before Twitter. There was an Internet in two
thousand and seven, but if you were going to break
a story back then, you had to do it in
(14:01):
written form on a website. So that was the Miguel
Cabrera Dontrelle Willis for Andrew Miller, Cameron Maybon and four others.
Remember that Detroit Tigers, Florida Marlins, maybe the Miami Marlins
at the time, I don't remember which Marlins they were,
but whatever, I had it, and I had it pretty good.
I had the biggest names. I didn't have the secondary names,
(14:22):
but I had certainly Willis and Cabrera going to Detroit
maybe and Miller going back to Miami. And I remember
reporting it working for Fox Sports dot Com at that time,
and I remember also seeing the Detroit writers, many of
them who were my friends, kind of just messing around
in the media room and I'm waiting for the story
(14:43):
to post, and I'm thinking, oh, man, they're not going
to be happy when they see this, And it was
a big deal. That was one of the bigger trades
honestly that I can remember at the Winter meetings. And
of course Miguel Cabrera goes on to a Hall of
Fame career with the Tigers. All right, final story in
this one is a doozy twenty twelve. The Rangers, Rays,
(15:05):
and Diamondbacks pull an all nighter. They're trying to make
a trade in which Justin Upton would have gone to
the Rangers, James Shields would have gone to the Padres.
It never came to fruition, but JP Brosi and I
were both working for Fox Sports dot Com at the time,
and we decided, all right, let's divide this up. We
know they're going to be at it let's have JP work.
(15:27):
I don't remember what it was, eleven to four am,
and I get up at five am because I had
to do hot store for MLB network, and we'll just
cover it and monitor it, monitor it that way. So
we did that, and the next morning I see Kevin Towers,
the Padres GM strolling through the lobby. This was in Nashville,
I believe, and I know he had stayed up all
(15:49):
night and he's looking fresh as a days, fresh as
a daisy. Kevin Towers. Unfortunately, Kevin no longer is with us.
He was one of my all time favorites, everyone's all
time favorite. He had dible energy. He had an incredible,
infectious personality. And that's one thing I remember from that night.
And then that night was memorable for other reasons. Evan
(16:10):
Granted The Dallas Morning News later wrote a story about
just what happened in the suite when the Rangers, Rays,
and Padres were trying to work out these deals that night.
Kirk Gibson was the manager of the Diamondbacks at the
time and John Daniels was the general manager of the
Texas Rangers. They were going back and forth, jowing each other,
(16:31):
and Gibson basically was saying to John Daniels, I'm gonna
mess you up. And according to Evan's story, what happened
was Gibson headbutted John Daniels. He body slammed them to
the carpet, and then he put them in a choke hold.
And I guess the game was, see if John Daniels
can survive twenty seconds, and then maybe it gets another
player in the deal. Well it didn't work out that way,
(16:53):
but it's a hilarious story. And again, the thing I
remember most the next day, after staying up all night,
Towers strolling through that lobby, chested out held, head held
high or helld as high as possible, and just kind
of savored the moment, even though nothing turned out happened.
Those are the Winter Meeting stories that I cherished, that
(17:15):
I love. There was another one one year when Geene
Watson of the Kansas City Royals rock upball Deli. Then
with the Rays they were working on another James Shields trade,
the one that came to fruition. They were negotiating in
their pajamas in the hallway. I didn't see this, I
heard about it later. Those kinds of things don't really
happen anymore. Everyone's kind of hold up in their suites.
(17:36):
But I'm not gonna say it was better back then.
It was certainly different. It was a little bit more fun,
but still fun. The transactions that keep us all going,
keep us fired up. And I'm sure we're going to
see some more this week, if not necessarily here in Orlando,
the big ones in the days that follow. All right,
that's it for the inside dish. Now let's break in
(17:57):
for grilling Ken, which is coming up next.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Bet MGM account holders today, how about an any sport
parlay boost token. You can score a bigger payout if
your wager with that token. Hits tokens can be used
on parlays and on same game parlays. Gambling problem or concerned,
there's help called one eight hundred gambler.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
All right, time now for grilling. Can the part of
the show? Right? I answer your questions, let's get to them. First.
One comes from d Gobble two kind of appropriate de Gobble.
With the recent thoughing of tensions between the O's and Nats,
would this make a gore trade more possible than before?
Good question, and tensions have thought between the two teams.
(18:42):
One reason Peter Angelos and his sons no longer own
the Orioles. They had the mass in dispute, remember the
regional network dispute with the Nationals, and it went on
forever and ever it's finally settled. The Ools are under
new ownership. I see no reason why these two teams
could not make a deal at this point. Now, whether
(19:03):
michae Elias wants Mackenzie Gore and is willing to meet
the Nationals price, that remains to be seen. That's a
separate question. But that would be a normal negotiation as
opposed to the Cold War that existed before. Gore is
attracting a lot of interest, obviously two years of control.
The Nationals want to move him, They're going to make
(19:23):
a pretty good trade for him, I would expect. Will
it be the Orioles. It would be great if the
Oriols for them. If they did it, I'm not sure
they'll be ultimately the team. All right. Next question, This
one comes from Mike, who asked, can you please ask
Jed Hoyer if he's aware that Zach Gallan gave up
the fourth most homers last season thirty one time that
(19:45):
showed it in Managa. Could the Gallon rumor be I
can't read the rest of it, but anyway, on Zach Gallant, now,
I understand people might look at the ERA and say, whoa,
he wasn't good, But in the last two months of
the season he was really good. Three point three two
ERA I believe looked much more like Zach Gallen, much
(20:06):
more in line with his career numbers. He is still
a quality major league pitcher. He's made twenty eight or
more starts each of the last five seasons. He's a
good guy to sign. If the Cubs get Zach Gallen,
they should be happy about that. Now. I know it
depends on the contract and all that, but if you're
a Cubs fan, you want Zach Gallen on your team. Okay.
I know about the home runs. That's an issue, of course,
(20:28):
but he had a rough four months to start the
season or really good two months to end it, and
based on everything he's done before, I would trust the
final two months. All right. Next question from Matt Lana,
who asked, what is your percent right now Schwarber signs
with the Reds? Any other moves are you hearing for
the Reds? I would say ten to fifteen percent. I
(20:54):
still really believe Schwarber is going back to the Phillies. Now.
The advantage of the red have over, for example, the Pirates,
another small market team. Is that Schorber is from Middletown, Ohio.
It's about thirty five miles north of Cincinnati. If he
wants to do a hometown thing and go back and
maybe take a little bit less, the Reds would be
a team the team to deal it with. He could
(21:17):
also justify it by thinking, Hey, I I'm gonna be
playing for Terry Francona, a Hall of Fame manager. I'm
gonna be the centerpiece of a lineup with a young
group of talented hitters that need me to be part
of them. Pirates can make the same argument. He can
make the same justification for them. I just think in
the end, my expectation is the Phillies beat whoever else
(21:42):
is in the mix and ultimately end up with Schwarber.
Just my feeling. If it doesn't happen that way, it
would be big news, for sure, it would be crazy.
But I just think those teams are long shots right now,
both the Pirates and the Reds. The Reds less so
because of the hometown connection, but both still long shots
in my estimation. All right, this one comes from Tyler
(22:05):
Max Smith, who asked yesterday, and Thopoulos said, you have
to work with what's available, even when it's not the
cleanest fit. Could we see an unexpected deal from AA
Marte would certainly be an upgrade over Albi's. Good question,
because Alexanthopolis has made a lot of unexpected deals in
his career, and we certainly can see another one. And
(22:25):
it's an interesting thought on Marte because Albi's has declined.
He's not the player he was three, four or five
years ago. And yes, they picked up his option and
I expected that, but could they do better? And could
they maybe trade Albi's somewhere else if they got Marte,
or even put Marte I'm sorry, put Albi's in the deal.
(22:45):
Sure will they be the high bidder for Marte? I
don't know, but he is a really good player. The
Diamondbacks are getting hit on him by a number of clubs.
Mike Hays in their GM has said it's unlikely Marte
will be traded, but it's as unlikely until it actually happens.
I know they want a lot, they want to reinforce
(23:06):
their pitching. They reached agreement with Mike Soroka earlier today
on a one year deal. They need better than that
as their injured pitchers rehabilitate and they wait for them
to return. So I think Marte is a more likely
guy to be traded than many. But will the Braves
be the team that? I can't tell you? I don't know?
All right, here we go with another question. This one's
(23:28):
from SS Curtis fifty nine. Do you think the Padres
will dump some payroll? Dennis Lynn of The Athletic wrote
about this today. It certainly is possible, and the problem
they have is who they dump now. Paveta's name has
been bandied about. It's at least out there, but Aj
(23:48):
Preller always listens on all of his players, and I
don't know that it's likely he's going to be traded.
They need Pavetta after losing Michael King and Dylan Cease
to free agency. They need Pavetta, who was their best
pitcher last season, to be their anchor going forward. They
still want to compete, but they have had payroll issues.
Jake Cronaworth would be one guy they could trade. His
(24:09):
deal is a pretty good deal for a player of
his caliber. Five years sixty million left, but they don't
have many options to trade. So could aj Preller be
really creative and do something maybe with Paveta to get
younger starting pitchers in return. It's conceivable. I don't know
that it's likely, but the Padres are a team to
(24:30):
watch because they do have payroll concerns. All right, with that,
I want to thank everyone for their questions, everyone for
following along. We've got a big week ahead on the
FT Network, so stay tuned. You've seen our schedule. We
return my show on Friday this week, not Thursday. We're
going to be back Friday at twelve thirty Eastern. The
winter meetings will be concluded by that point, but we'll
(24:52):
have a lot to talk about. I am sure have
a great week. Everyone will be back twelve thirty Friday
with Alana. Thanks again for joining us.
Welcome everyone to the Monday edition of Fair Territory, the
Winter Meetings edition of Fair Territory. We've got a ton
to get to this morning. Hall of Fame things happening
at the Winter Meetings. Not too much happening just yet,
but I would expect over the next couple of days
we will have some action. The expectation is that, yes,
some deals will go down, trades, free agent signings and
(00:24):
the like. So let's get right to the news of
the day, which is the Hall of Fame vote from
last night, the Contemporary Era Committee electing Jeff Kent to
the Hall of Fame. He is the newest Hall of
Famer and it was an interesting ballot, to say the least,
the eight names. I had no problem with any of
these guys getting elected, but of course Kent was the
(00:46):
only one who ultimately received twelve of the sixteen votes
seventy five percent from that committee, and that is why
he will be the inductee from this group going into
the Hall of Fame. Carlos Delgado nine votes, again needing twelve.
Mattingley and Murphy got six eight. You see the vote
totals right there, Kent with fourteen, Delgatto nine, Mattinglee, Murphy six,
(01:09):
and then Bonds, Clemens, Sheffield and balance Well all less
than five. And what that means is they will not
be eligible those guys with less than five votes in
the next cycle three years from now, and if they
get less than five in twenty thirty one, the next
time they are eligible, they will not be ever on
(01:30):
the ballot any ballot again. So for Bonds and Clemens
in particular, they're in real peril here of not getting
into the Hall of Fame. We've seen this now through
ten years of BBWA votes, We've seen it through two
committee votes now is not surprising. And at the same time,
I know there are certain people who are good with
this and there are certain fans people who are not
(01:52):
good with it at all. When they were on the
bout the BBWA ballot, I did not initially vote for them,
but once I felt that there are other Hall of
famers who were getting elected that had used performance dancing drugs.
I'm not gonna mention names, but once I felt that
it'd been happening, that line had been broken, then I
did vote for Bonds and Clemens. I don't vote for
(02:14):
guys who tested positive or were suspended by Major League
Baseball after Firmer rules were in place, a Rod and Manny,
but the ones before that, generally, yes, I do vote
for them, not all of them. Socide didn't get to
in time, MacGuire, etc. But enough about that. The real
question here is how do we deal with this era?
(02:34):
And it's still the question, and unfortunately the BBWAA and
these committees don't have great answers because we know there
are Hall of Famers who used peds. It's a reasonable
assumption at this point there are some players who have
been linked to peds in one form or another. And
then we know also that Bonds and Clemens, arguably the
(02:56):
greatest hitter and pitcher of this generation, are not in
I'm not sure what the right answer is. There really
is no right answer. And yes, if you're a fan
and you see contradictions, you're absolutely right. There are contradictions.
But these are the votes. And if you look at
the committee, the guys who rejected Bonds and Clemens this time,
(03:17):
it's interesting because there were seven Hall of famers on
that committee, players who are not exactly contemporaries, all of
them with Bonds and Clemens, but certainly players that had
some familiarity with them, to say the least. Fergie Jenkins,
Jim Cott, Juan marischal Tony Perez, Ozzie Smith, and Alan
Trammel were the players on that committee, along with Robin Yeat.
(03:37):
Then there were five executives actually six and three researcher
writer types. So that is the group that decided no.
And again you're not seeing any greater support on these committees,
which are comprised partly actually the majority or not the majority,
but of good number of Hall of Fame members. They're
(03:58):
not giving Bonds and Clemens any more quarter than the
writers did when they were on the Writer's bout. One
other thing I want to mention with the Hall of Fame,
and it's interesting, Jeff Kent certainly were the most home
runs ever by a second basement. I voted for him
when he was on the BBWAA ballot. But when you
elect guys then people often say, well what about this
guy or that guy? And I want to show you
(04:19):
a comp with Lou Whittaker, between Kent and Lou Whittaker,
because Lou Whitaker fell off the baut in his first year.
And I am hopeful that one day a Veterans Committee
or one of these committees is going to recognize him
as the rightful Hall of Famer he is along with
Alan Trammel. You see this graphic here, the comparison from
Stadhead Baseball that CJ. Nikowski posted last night. They're very
(04:41):
comparable players. Yes, Kent had more power, but Lou Whittaker
in his day was every bit the player. Jeff Kent
was a different kind of player perhaps, but man, it's
pretty close. Lou Whitaker should be in. This should be
good news for Chase Utley as well going forward. So
that's the Hall of Fame vote. We can debate it
all day long, and I'm sure people will, but that's
(05:02):
where we are with that as of Monday, December eighth. Now,
Winter Meetings last night reported something that I thought was
pretty interesting, to say the least, and I was surprised
to hear it that the Pirates have made a four
year offer to Kyle Schwarber. Now, do I expect the
Pirates to sign Kyle Schwarber, Absolutely not, but the fact
(05:23):
that they're in there swinging and I imagine and I
reported that this offer almost certainly is for more than
one hundred million. Otherwise why bother. That is a major step.
And I've been reporting all winter really or all off
season about how the Pirates are being more aggressive, how
they finally are trying to put a team around Paul
Skeins that would be worthy of contention. Schwarber is at
(05:47):
the top of their list. They know he is probably
going to be someone who gets a better offer from
a better team. But at the same time, they're in there,
the Cincinnati Reds are in there. There are other big
market teams in there, like the Boston Red Sox. So Schwarber,
it's not clear exactly when he's going to sign yet.
Maybe it will be at these meetings, maybe not, but
(06:08):
he clearly is in demand now. I also wrote today
about another team that is somewhat in a comparable position
to the Pirates because they have a great picture their
own sy young winner. That's the Tigers with Trek Scrubele. Now,
what I wrote about the Tigers was a column. It
was opinion, and at the same time it was something
(06:28):
I felt strongly about because to me, if the Tigers
are going to keep Trek Scruble not trade him, which
appears to be the case, you never know, but certainly
it appears to be the way they are leaning. Unless
they get overwhelmed, then you've got one year of Schooble left.
In my view, you've got to take your best shot.
And I'm not talking about doing something stupid. I'm talking
(06:50):
about putting the best team possible around him. Tiger's President
Baseball Operation, Scott Harris, in my view, has been pretty
risk of a verse in his time for reasons that
are understandable. He was trying to build up a team
that had fallen apart. But at the same time, here
are a situation, or here is a situation where it
(07:13):
seems to me it's time to go. And again, I
don't know who the players are that they should get. Necessarily,
they can certainly use another bat. We know that. We
also know that they could use a number two starter
behind Schooble, someone who, if they signed long term, could
be Schooble's replacement. Should he leave as a free agent, Yes,
I expect him to leave as a free agent. He's
(07:34):
represented by Scott Boris. He's one year away. He's going
to hit the jackpop probably break yamamotos three hundred and
twenty five million dollar record for a pitcher as a
free agent as long as he is healthy, and if
that happens, the Tigers are left with a draft pick
and only a draft pick in return. That said, I
like that they're pretty stubborn right now about keeping him.
(07:58):
They want to keep him, they want to win with him. Well, okay,
but if you want to win with him, then you've
got to do some things around him. And I mentioned
some name Calm Gregman. Obviously, they made the six year,
one hundred and seventy one point five million dollar offer
to him last winter. He didn't take it. He took
less from the Red Sox. I wouldn't expect him to
(08:18):
necessarily choose Detroit over any of the teams that might
be interested in him this offseason when he already rejected
them once when they had a higher guarantee on the table.
Boba Schett would be an interesting player for the Tigers.
Hashan Kim would be an interesting player for the Tigers.
The pitching market is not quite as impressive as you
(08:40):
would want it to be, and the executives keep telling
me and others that they're not all that impressed with
the remaining group, which is Ranger Suarez and Sachua am
I and from er Valdez. The good pitchers, no question
about it. But I don't know that anyone is overwhelmed
by their abilities on a long term, not the way
(09:00):
they would be with perhaps a schoobl next year or
Paul Skins once he becomes a free agent. So here
are the Tigers. They're in an interesting spot here, and
I get that they don't want to block younger players.
I get that with Javier Bayez a few years ago
it didn't work out for them, but it shouldn't prevent
a team from trying again. It's not easy. But at
(09:24):
the same time, we've seen with the Orioles, keep playing
for next year, keep waiting for these prospects. It doesn't
always go in a linear fashion. So from that perspective,
I'm concerned with the Tigers. I want to see them
do something this offseason. A few things really show up
their bullpen as well, to ensure that win, to ensure
(09:45):
that in their final season, what likely is their final
season with Trek Scubel, they take their best shot. All Right,
That is it for the first segment. We've got a
long way to go here. We've got inside Dish coming up.
Catch Foul Territory Live from the Winter Meeting in Orlando
later today through Wednesday one pm Eastern on the FT
YouTube channel, Ali Marble, Terry Franconis, Stephen Vote, and Paul
(10:08):
Taboni our schedule to join Scott Braun, Aj Prasinski and
Eric Kraftz today. That's a really good guest list. Subscribe
on YouTube and rate five stars wherever you get your
podcast to the entire foul Territory network. We'll be back
with the Inside Dish right after this.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Hey, when you get a chance, subscribe to foul Territory
on YouTube. We are getting very close to three hundred
thousand subscribers on the channel and love all of them,
so we'd love you to join us on that channel
as we break down everything going on across the sport.
It is baseball the way it should be covered at
foul Territory. Give us a sub well well, well.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Well, all right, Time out for the Inside Dish, the
part of the show where I go inside a story
of written a trend in the game, talk about something
else entire and today I want to talk about what
it's like to cover the Winter Meetings. Now, I've been
at this a long time. I'm a little older than
(11:08):
some of the other writers right now, Okay, whatever, And
I try very hard not to look back and say, man,
it was better back then. But you know what, covering
the Winter Meetings was a better experience earlier in my career,
and even before I started covering. It's gotten more buttoned
down over the years, more conservative in what teams do
(11:31):
and all of that. I'm not saying teams shouldn't act
as efficiently as possible. I'm just saying that back in
the day, and I'm going to give you some stories
to show you what I'm talking about. There were some
wilder things going on than there seemed to be at
the meetings in these last few years or so. So
there's one story. I have my favorite Winter Meeting story
(11:52):
that I'm saving for my book if I ever write
a book. It's too good to talk about here. It's
too good to write for the Athletic. It's for a book.
I'm not going to get into that. But I want
to go back in time a little bit. Now. I'll
go back to start with before my time, nineteen seventy five,
the Diplomat Hotel in Hollywood, Florida. Rowand Heeman, general manager
of the Chicago White Sox, the late rowand Haeman. I
(12:14):
covered him with the Oriols. One of the great people
in our game. He was working for Bill Beck and
Rowan Haeman set up a table in the lobby of
the Diplomat Hotel, put up a sign and said open
for business. The White Sox then made four trades in
I don't know, a span of an hour something like that.
Big trades too. Mickey Lowich was involved in one rusty
(12:35):
stob Ralph Gorr. That was maybe the peak winter meeting's
craziness moment. You don't see GM's in the lobby today.
They're in their suites, they're huddled up, they're texting. There
was no texting back then. There were phones. There were
actual phones that worked. But that's how rowand Heeman did it.
All right, that's nineteen seventy five. Now let's go back
(12:56):
a little bit closer to the current time. My star
in nineteen eighty seven, and some of my favorite Winter
meetings have been in the last I don't know, twenty
years or so, two thousand and six, right here in Orlando,
legendary winter meetings, different hotel. Jim Hendry, then general manager
of the Chicago Cubs. He's now working for the Yankees
for Brian Cashman. Jim Hendry signed Ted Lilly to a
(13:20):
four year, forty million dollars deal while hooked up to
an EKG. He was having heard trouble and it turned
out he needed a procedure at another hospital later during
those winter meetings, but he did sign Lily even though
he was hooked up to an EKG. Incredible story and
(13:40):
luckily Jim is still with us and survived that whole affair.
That's one of the crazier things that I can remember
now twenty twelve. Wait, two thousand and seven. This is
one of the bigger ones I've ever broken. Back in
the day before Twitter. There was an Internet in two
thousand and seven, but if you were going to break
a story back then, you had to do it in
(14:01):
written form on a website. So that was the Miguel
Cabrera Dontrelle Willis for Andrew Miller, Cameron Maybon and four others.
Remember that Detroit Tigers, Florida Marlins, maybe the Miami Marlins
at the time, I don't remember which Marlins they were,
but whatever, I had it, and I had it pretty good.
I had the biggest names. I didn't have the secondary names,
(14:22):
but I had certainly Willis and Cabrera going to Detroit
maybe and Miller going back to Miami. And I remember
reporting it working for Fox Sports dot Com at that time,
and I remember also seeing the Detroit writers, many of
them who were my friends, kind of just messing around
in the media room and I'm waiting for the story
(14:43):
to post, and I'm thinking, oh, man, they're not going
to be happy when they see this, And it was
a big deal. That was one of the bigger trades
honestly that I can remember at the Winter meetings. And
of course Miguel Cabrera goes on to a Hall of
Fame career with the Tigers. All right, final story in
this one is a doozy twenty twelve. The Rangers, Rays,
(15:05):
and Diamondbacks pull an all nighter. They're trying to make
a trade in which Justin Upton would have gone to
the Rangers, James Shields would have gone to the Padres.
It never came to fruition, but JP Brosi and I
were both working for Fox Sports dot Com at the time,
and we decided, all right, let's divide this up. We
know they're going to be at it let's have JP work.
(15:27):
I don't remember what it was, eleven to four am,
and I get up at five am because I had
to do hot store for MLB network, and we'll just
cover it and monitor it, monitor it that way. So
we did that, and the next morning I see Kevin Towers,
the Padres GM strolling through the lobby. This was in Nashville,
I believe, and I know he had stayed up all
(15:49):
night and he's looking fresh as a days, fresh as
a daisy. Kevin Towers. Unfortunately, Kevin no longer is with us.
He was one of my all time favorites, everyone's all
time favorite. He had dible energy. He had an incredible,
infectious personality. And that's one thing I remember from that night.
And then that night was memorable for other reasons. Evan
(16:10):
Granted The Dallas Morning News later wrote a story about
just what happened in the suite when the Rangers, Rays,
and Padres were trying to work out these deals that night.
Kirk Gibson was the manager of the Diamondbacks at the
time and John Daniels was the general manager of the
Texas Rangers. They were going back and forth, jowing each other,
(16:31):
and Gibson basically was saying to John Daniels, I'm gonna
mess you up. And according to Evan's story, what happened
was Gibson headbutted John Daniels. He body slammed them to
the carpet, and then he put them in a choke hold.
And I guess the game was, see if John Daniels
can survive twenty seconds, and then maybe it gets another
player in the deal. Well it didn't work out that way,
(16:53):
but it's a hilarious story. And again, the thing I
remember most the next day, after staying up all night,
Towers strolling through that lobby, chested out held, head held
high or helld as high as possible, and just kind
of savored the moment, even though nothing turned out happened.
Those are the Winter Meeting stories that I cherished, that
(17:15):
I love. There was another one one year when Geene
Watson of the Kansas City Royals rock upball Deli. Then
with the Rays they were working on another James Shields trade,
the one that came to fruition. They were negotiating in
their pajamas in the hallway. I didn't see this, I
heard about it later. Those kinds of things don't really
happen anymore. Everyone's kind of hold up in their suites.
(17:36):
But I'm not gonna say it was better back then.
It was certainly different. It was a little bit more fun,
but still fun. The transactions that keep us all going,
keep us fired up. And I'm sure we're going to
see some more this week, if not necessarily here in Orlando,
the big ones in the days that follow. All right,
that's it for the inside dish. Now let's break in
(17:57):
for grilling Ken, which is coming up next.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Bet MGM account holders today, how about an any sport
parlay boost token. You can score a bigger payout if
your wager with that token. Hits tokens can be used
on parlays and on same game parlays. Gambling problem or concerned,
there's help called one eight hundred gambler.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
All right, time now for grilling. Can the part of
the show? Right? I answer your questions, let's get to them. First.
One comes from d Gobble two kind of appropriate de Gobble.
With the recent thoughing of tensions between the O's and Nats,
would this make a gore trade more possible than before?
Good question, and tensions have thought between the two teams.
(18:42):
One reason Peter Angelos and his sons no longer own
the Orioles. They had the mass in dispute, remember the
regional network dispute with the Nationals, and it went on
forever and ever it's finally settled. The Ools are under
new ownership. I see no reason why these two teams
could not make a deal at this point. Now, whether
(19:03):
michae Elias wants Mackenzie Gore and is willing to meet
the Nationals price, that remains to be seen. That's a
separate question. But that would be a normal negotiation as
opposed to the Cold War that existed before. Gore is
attracting a lot of interest, obviously two years of control.
The Nationals want to move him, They're going to make
(19:23):
a pretty good trade for him, I would expect. Will
it be the Orioles. It would be great if the
Oriols for them. If they did it, I'm not sure
they'll be ultimately the team. All right. Next question, This
one comes from Mike, who asked, can you please ask
Jed Hoyer if he's aware that Zach Gallan gave up
the fourth most homers last season thirty one time that
(19:45):
showed it in Managa. Could the Gallon rumor be I
can't read the rest of it, but anyway, on Zach Gallant, now,
I understand people might look at the ERA and say, whoa,
he wasn't good, But in the last two months of
the season he was really good. Three point three two
ERA I believe looked much more like Zach Gallen, much
(20:06):
more in line with his career numbers. He is still
a quality major league pitcher. He's made twenty eight or
more starts each of the last five seasons. He's a
good guy to sign. If the Cubs get Zach Gallen,
they should be happy about that. Now. I know it
depends on the contract and all that, but if you're
a Cubs fan, you want Zach Gallen on your team. Okay.
I know about the home runs. That's an issue, of course,
(20:28):
but he had a rough four months to start the
season or really good two months to end it, and
based on everything he's done before, I would trust the
final two months. All right. Next question from Matt Lana,
who asked, what is your percent right now Schwarber signs
with the Reds? Any other moves are you hearing for
the Reds? I would say ten to fifteen percent. I
(20:54):
still really believe Schwarber is going back to the Phillies. Now.
The advantage of the red have over, for example, the Pirates,
another small market team. Is that Schorber is from Middletown, Ohio.
It's about thirty five miles north of Cincinnati. If he
wants to do a hometown thing and go back and
maybe take a little bit less, the Reds would be
a team the team to deal it with. He could
(21:17):
also justify it by thinking, Hey, I I'm gonna be
playing for Terry Francona, a Hall of Fame manager. I'm
gonna be the centerpiece of a lineup with a young
group of talented hitters that need me to be part
of them. Pirates can make the same argument. He can
make the same justification for them. I just think in
the end, my expectation is the Phillies beat whoever else
(21:42):
is in the mix and ultimately end up with Schwarber.
Just my feeling. If it doesn't happen that way, it
would be big news, for sure, it would be crazy.
But I just think those teams are long shots right now,
both the Pirates and the Reds. The Reds less so
because of the hometown connection, but both still long shots
in my estimation. All right, this one comes from Tyler
(22:05):
Max Smith, who asked yesterday, and Thopoulos said, you have
to work with what's available, even when it's not the
cleanest fit. Could we see an unexpected deal from AA
Marte would certainly be an upgrade over Albi's. Good question,
because Alexanthopolis has made a lot of unexpected deals in
his career, and we certainly can see another one. And
(22:25):
it's an interesting thought on Marte because Albi's has declined.
He's not the player he was three, four or five
years ago. And yes, they picked up his option and
I expected that, but could they do better? And could
they maybe trade Albi's somewhere else if they got Marte,
or even put Marte I'm sorry, put Albi's in the deal.
(22:45):
Sure will they be the high bidder for Marte? I
don't know, but he is a really good player. The
Diamondbacks are getting hit on him by a number of clubs.
Mike Hays in their GM has said it's unlikely Marte
will be traded, but it's as unlikely until it actually happens.
I know they want a lot, they want to reinforce
(23:06):
their pitching. They reached agreement with Mike Soroka earlier today
on a one year deal. They need better than that
as their injured pitchers rehabilitate and they wait for them
to return. So I think Marte is a more likely
guy to be traded than many. But will the Braves
be the team that? I can't tell you? I don't know?
All right, here we go with another question. This one's
(23:28):
from SS Curtis fifty nine. Do you think the Padres
will dump some payroll? Dennis Lynn of The Athletic wrote
about this today. It certainly is possible, and the problem
they have is who they dump now. Paveta's name has
been bandied about. It's at least out there, but Aj
(23:48):
Preller always listens on all of his players, and I
don't know that it's likely he's going to be traded.
They need Pavetta after losing Michael King and Dylan Cease
to free agency. They need Pavetta, who was their best
pitcher last season, to be their anchor going forward. They
still want to compete, but they have had payroll issues.
Jake Cronaworth would be one guy they could trade. His
(24:09):
deal is a pretty good deal for a player of
his caliber. Five years sixty million left, but they don't
have many options to trade. So could aj Preller be
really creative and do something maybe with Paveta to get
younger starting pitchers in return. It's conceivable. I don't know
that it's likely, but the Padres are a team to
(24:30):
watch because they do have payroll concerns. All right, with that,
I want to thank everyone for their questions, everyone for
following along. We've got a big week ahead on the
FT Network, so stay tuned. You've seen our schedule. We
return my show on Friday this week, not Thursday. We're
going to be back Friday at twelve thirty Eastern. The
winter meetings will be concluded by that point, but we'll
(24:52):
have a lot to talk about. I am sure have
a great week. Everyone will be back twelve thirty Friday
with Alana. Thanks again for joining us.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Bobby Bones Show
Listen to 'The Bobby Bones Show' by downloading the daily full replay.