November 11, 2025 • 25 mins
Ken Rosenthal unpacks what we know in Sunday’s indictment of Cleveland Guardians pitchers Luis Ortiz and Emmanuel Clase. (Top of show)
(3:06) The Minnesota Twins and Texas Rangers face critical decisions this offseason.
(6:33) Ken also tips his cap to Kyle Hendricks following the righty’s retirement.
Check out square.com/go/FOUL and go support your favorite neighborhood spot to see what Square has been up to in your neck of the woods.
(9:40) Inside Dish explores the unconventional thinking in clubs’ hiring this offseason.
(17:18) Ken takes your live Grillin’ Ken questions, including offseason outlook for the Yankees, Pirates and Guardians. Plus, questions about the CBA, Tarik Skubal's future and a team willing to trade the farm to bolster their Big League club.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome everyone to another edition of Fair Territory. We're coming
to you live from the General Manager's meetings in Las Vegas.
Before we get started, I want to mention Veterans Day
and thank all the veterans, of course for their service.
I know this is the day we always thank them
and take a day to do that, but really it's
every day that we should be thanking the veterans their sacrifice.
(00:21):
It cannot even be described in words, So Happy Veterans
Day to all. Now, as for baseball, it's been quite
an interesting week already because of something that happens off
the field, and of course I'm talking about the indictments
of The Guardian's pitchers, Emmanuel Classe and Luis Ortiz on chargers.
They took bribes from sports vetters on to throw specific
(00:45):
pitches that would trigger prop bets, basically doing things that
were anti integrity, if you want to call it that.
We've talked a lot about what this means about the
gambling aspect, about all the companies, including ours, including everyone
I work for, that is in partnership with gambling companies,
Baseball's partnership with gambling companies. We've also learned Monday yesterday
(01:08):
that Major League Baseball has worked with the sportsbooks to
institute a two hundred dollars limit on pitch level micro
bets and to also exclude them from parlays. I've obviously
the idea is to kind of prevent this from happening
in the future, or at least take a step to
help prevent this from happening. What we haven't talked much
about is the actual effect on the Guardians themselves as
(01:31):
a baseball team. You see there this story from Zach Mazel,
really good story explaining everything that's in the indictment and
all that it came to pass with these two pitchers
the Guardians last year, Remember they did not have these
two guys for their stretch run. Luis Ortiz did not
pitch after June twenty seventh. Emmanuel Class did not pitch
(01:52):
after July twenty sixth. They both were placed on nondisciplinary
paid leave while the Major League Baseball investigation was going on.
What happened, The Guardians did not fall apart without one
of their starting pitchers and their premier closer. They went
nineteen to four down the stretch to win the Al
Central in shocking fashion. Now they lost to the Tigers
(02:13):
in the wildcard round. Now the question becomes, all right,
what about this season? What do they do about these guys?
I assume, but perhaps I should not assume that they
will remain on nondisciplinary paid leave. That's a problem for
the Guardians, who are a low budget team, and classeas
do six point four million in twenty twenty six or
(02:34):
Teas would be right around the minimum salary seven hundred
and eighty thousand. He is not yet eligible for arbitration.
The Guardians certainly can use that money. My understanding is
as of right now that money is not available to them,
but we should learn more about that in the coming days,
so we'll have to see how that all plays out
for the Guardians. Clearly they can figure things out either way.
(02:56):
But if they got some clarity on what these guys
will be paid or not paid, it certainly would help
them as they go forward in the off season. Now,
also in the Al Central, I wrote a notes column
to them, my first one of the off season, and
I led with the Twins. And the Twins are an
interesting team because if you look at them and you
go back to the deadline, they traded everybody well pretty
(03:19):
much everybody their entire bullpen for sure, and a number
of others. So the assumption would be, well, of course
they would continue on this course and trade Pablo Lopez
and more importantly trade Joe Ryan, who was in demand
at the deadline. But the Twins did not get an
offer they liked, and yet there is another way for
them to go, And in talking to some people yesterday
(03:40):
I learned that at least this way is under consideration,
and that way is to compete. It's to keep those
two guys and build around them in what is every
year a winnable al central. The Twins are not like
the Rockies kind of bereft of talent. They've got talent
Byron Buxton, Ryan Lopez, some younger players around on them,
(04:01):
Royce Lewis, Viever, stays healthy. They're not a team that
is necessarily going to be an awful team next year.
If they actually built around these guys, they might be interesting. Now, remember,
they were not sold as they wanted to be, or
at least the poll Out family intended them to be
for one point seven billion. They did not get that price,
(04:22):
and ultimately the family took on two minority investors. It
seemed for the main reason of paying down their debt,
which was around four hundred and twenty five million. Well,
how about putting some money into the team. That might
be an interesting reversal, especially when you've got a new manager,
Derek Shelton, and especially when you've also alienated your fans
(04:43):
the past several years. So this is something to keep
in mind. I'm not saying the Twins are going to
go one way or the other. My understanding is they
don't have a direction yet from ownership on just how
much they could spend. But that's going to be something
to watch. Another team in a similar boat, another team
with a new manager, the Texas Rangers. Skip Schumacher is
their new manager. They're coming off a disappointing season eighty
(05:06):
one and eighty one. We know that their payroll is
not going to be as high they pushed it after
winning the World Series, actually to win the World Series,
and then after that they're going to go backwards a
little bit. They can do some things to lower the
payroll and create some flexibility for some offseason pursuits. They've
got a Goalis Garcia, who is a potential non tender.
(05:27):
They've got jonah Heim who is a potential non tender.
Garcia is at about twelve point six million. I believe
heim six billion. I've got this in the column. I
don't remember the numbers off the top of my head.
So most likely one of them will to be non tender.
Can they go further? I don't know that they would
go further. Could you trade Marcus Simon and save some
money that way? I don't know that anyone would want Simeon.
(05:48):
He's in decline, he's thirty five. But this is a
team that's going to face some interesting decisions again, because
they have a new manager, you would think they don't
simply want to go backwards. In fact, they are very
competitive group. Chris Young, their general manager, former pitcher, he
wants to get back into the mix. So the Rangers
(06:08):
are going to be an interesting team to watch as well.
They need another starting pitcher, a back end guy. Most
likely they will need a catcher if they non tender him.
They obviously need to fix their bullpen and rebuild that,
and maybe they'll need a right handed hitting outfielder as well.
Can they do all that within the financial constraints they're
going to be under. Well, we're going to find out
(06:29):
and Finally, in this segment, I want to talk about
Kyle Hendricks. Kyle Hendricks announced his retirement yesterday, and he
is such an interesting player in so many regards. First
of all, congratulations to Kyle on a tremendous career. He's
a guy that my producer Jeremy Meyer pointed out today
would maybe not get signed as an amateur if he
(06:49):
was coming up through the ranks. He didn't throw hard.
He is a guy that thrived on pitching, not just
on velocity, and today, of course the great emphasis is
on velocity and making your breaking pitches spin as fast
as they can and break as hard as they can.
Kyle Hendricks was not that guy, and yet he had
a wonderful career. Of course, it was highlighted by the
(07:11):
twenty sixteen World Series, in which he started Games three
and seven for the Cubs and allowed only one earned
run in nine innings. You see there, Patrick Mooney, he
describes Kyle Hendricks as an under the radar prospect out
of Dartmouth who developed into a World Series champion and
one of the most consequential Cubs pitchers ever. And he's
exiting the game the way he came in with zero fanfare.
(07:33):
Kyle Hendricks one of the more modest guys you will
ever meet. He was never about himself. He was always
about the team. That is why he was a beloved teammate.
And you go back to that twenty sixteen World Series, well,
Game three, four and a third scoreless innings Cubs lost,
that won nothing. If you remember, they fell behind three
games to one in this World Series before winning the
(07:54):
final three with Kyle Hendricks starting Game seven, pitching four
and two thirds innings, allowing two runs, just one was earned.
The Cubs, of course, went on to that dramatic eight
to seven victory with the rain delay, the Jason Haywood speech,
and they broke the Guardian's hearts. They were then the Indians,
and that World Series was so meaningful for so many
(08:15):
because of the fact the Cubs had not won since
nineteen oh eight, not two thousand and eight, and the
Guardians have not one and still have not one since
nineteen forty five. So again, great job his whole career.
To Kyle Hendricks, congratulations on your retirement once more. And
you were a pleasure to watch man, a pleasure to cover,
a pleasure to watch. We'll be back with the inside
(08:37):
Dish after this.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
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Speaker 1 (09:41):
Well, well, well, well, time time now for the inside dish,
the part of the show where I talk about maybe
something i've written, a trend in the game, or sometimes
a combination of both. And that is what I'm going
to do today. On Friday, I wrote a column about
the managerial hirings all that we've seen so far, the
(10:03):
traditional the non traditional, And in that column I questioned
some of the teams for maybe getting too cute, trying
to be too creative in outsmarting their opposition and figuring
out the next big thing. Now, this column got a
lot of reaction, as columns often do. That's kind of
the idea when you write something. And I wrote it
(10:23):
because it was bugging me what was going on. And
sometimes the best columns come from when something is just
bothering you. Now, what was this about. It was about
the hirings of for managers from non traditional backgrounds. Of course,
Tony Vaytello, college coach from Tennessee being first and foremost
among them. He is a guy who has never been
(10:45):
in professional baseball. Then there was Blake Terra, at thirty three,
the youngest manager to take over a team since nineteen
seventy two. He's a guy who's never managed above a ball,
never been in the major leagues either. And then there
was Kurt Suzuki with the Angels and Craig Stammon with
the Padres. Former players, guys who are serving as special
(11:05):
assistance with their teams but never coached or managed. Now
there were four other hires, or have been, four other
hires from the more traditional path that we normally see
from coaching staffs in Major League Baseball or previous managers,
guys who are getting a second chance. Three of those
guys qualified in that regard, Skip Schumacher with the Rangers,
(11:26):
WoT Weiss with the Braves, and Derek Shelton with the Twins.
And then there's Craig alban As with the Orioles. He
was a bench coach with the Guardians for two years
under Steven Vote, and of course before that a coach
with the Giants as well. So that's the traditional path.
So I wrote this questioning the new ones, and of
course the Rockies still linked to hire a manager, and
(11:47):
their hire as a President of Baseball Operations, Paulled the
Podesta was perhaps the most surprising hire of all, considering
that the Podesta has been out of baseball for about
a decade. He was in the front office of the
NFL Cleveland Browns. So you might ask, and people did ask, Ken,
why are you all hot and bothered about this? Anytime
you hire a manager, it's a risk. And I've thought
(12:09):
about this after I wrote the column and gave it
some more thought, and I thought back to my own career,
in my own start in baseball writing, and I was
hired at age twenty four without any experience covering Major
League baseball on a regular basis by the Baltimore Evening Sun.
The sports editor was Jack Gibbons, and he took a
chance on me, but as these teams are taking a
(12:31):
chance on these managers, and basically his thought was that
I could grow into the job. And I guess that's
what happened. I would hope that people think that's what happened.
I've been doing it long enough now. But at the
same time, I still see this situation in baseball as different.
And I see it as different because at that time
when I was hired, while yes I'm sure Jack Gibbons
(12:53):
snubbed a lot of more qualified candidates, those guys were
getting jobs elsewhere, it was not a there were a
lot of baseball writing jobs, and this was kind of
an unusual circumstance. Today in baseball, when the unconventional hires
are made, it's not so unusual. We've seen that. And
my concern again is the teams get too cute. They
(13:15):
try to show how smart they are. And we see
this not just in their hirings. We see this with
player acquisition, we see this with in game strategy, and yes,
we see this in the way they go about picking
their new managers and sometimes their new coaches as well.
And here's the thing. The managing job is extremely difficult.
(13:36):
It's a lot harder than being a twenty four year
old baseball writer. It's a lot bigger risk to take
a chance in a multi million dollar business with someone
who has not done the job before. Not quite the
same as what I was experiencing, or what the Baltimore
Evening Sun was experiencing when they hired me in nineteen
eighty seven. So during the off season, I'm sorry, during
(13:56):
the postseason, when I was with the Blue Jays for
in the entire post division series LCS World Series, their
manager John Schneider, spoke often. We met with him every
day as a broadcast group, and he spoke often about
how much he has learned in his time as a manager.
He was a minor league manager for eight years, he
was a major league coach for three plus seasons. He
(14:17):
followed that traditional path, and yet when he got the job,
he still had a long way to go to become
the manager he is today and potentially the American League
Manager of the Year which will be named tonight, and
Schneiner spoke about how he needed to evolve, learn from
his mistakes, learn to adjust to situations, exercise, feel, read
(14:42):
and react. He's done a better job of that than
he did earlier. All of these managers who are coming
in for the first time, they're going to need how
to learn to do the job first of all, and
they're going to need to refine themselves over a matter
of time as well. It's not easy. So that's my
concern now. The same thing. At the same time, the
(15:04):
other part of this is that, again, as I mentioned,
quality people are getting overlooked. We have David Ross and
bread and Hyde, guys who deserve a second chance. Were
they great managers in their first shots? Maybe not, But
we've seen managers grow a lot in their second jobs.
We also see and know managers in minor leagues, managers
(15:28):
even in who well coaches in the major leagues. These
guys are waiting, and they're waiting for their chances, and
they feel, hey, what about me. So it's a complicated discussion.
And for all I know, maybe all of these guys
that I'm talking about will prove major successes. When I
wrote this column, I cited my original column when Aaron
(15:49):
Boone was hired by the Yankees, and I said that
maybe I was being too alarmist in that column because
I was critical of that higher I don't recall too
many people being critical of it, but I was because
the no coaching or managing experience. Obviously, Aaron Boone has
proven to be a great success. I was wrong on him,
and I said as much in the column. And if
I'm wrong on all these first time managers, I'll be
(16:11):
happy to say as much again. But I just have
a hard time that all of them are hard time
believing that are going to succeed. In my view, experience
in this position still matters well, at least it should.
All right back with Grill and Ken right after.
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(17:11):
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Speaker 1 (17:24):
Time out for grilling can the part of the show
where I answer your questions. Let's get right to them. First.
One comes from Richard Proctor, who asks which team do
you think is most likely to part with their prospects
in order to better their major league roster? Always a
good question, and one Richard that is kind of difficult
(17:44):
to answer because I don't know what teams exactly are thinking,
But I would say this, the Mets are a team
that have built their farm system in recent years, especially
under David Stearns. They're in a position now where they
can make some trades. The Dodgers have a strong farm system,
they certainly can make some trades. But what would be
more intriguing would be if we saw teams like, for instance,
(18:07):
the Marlins and the Pirates do some things to better
themselves by trading from their depth of prospects. And I
do believe that is possible. Yesterday, and talking to some
people here just the first day of the GM meetings,
actually it wasn't even the first day. People were just
getting in. I heard that the Marlins and Pirates are
telling agents, Hey, we'd like to be aggressive, We'd like
(18:28):
to spend a little bit now. That can be in
free agency, or it can be in the matter of
taking on salaries in trades. So I don't know the
exact answer to your question, Richard, but I do expect
that we're going to see some of this kind of activity,
and not just from the big spending teams that have
tons of prospects. You may see it from some other
clubs as well. Next question, this one comes from Peter
(18:51):
Ross nineteen oh seven. Peter asked, what do you think
the Yankees are doing this off season? Starting pitcher would
be one thing. Joel Sherman what an interesting Colum New
York post today about how while the Yankees will have
Rodin coming back, and I'll have Cole coming back at
some point, maybe even early in the season, they need
to protect themselves. They need to get another starter, Max
(19:13):
Fritz coming off a big workload. They've got obviously a
good group, but you always need more. So I expect
starting pitching to be one thing, and then the outfield
going to be really interesting. So Trent Grisham got the
qualifying offer. We don't know if he's going to accept
or not. Obviously, if he accepts, that's one spot. They
(19:34):
do want bellunder back. They've talked about that, but Kyle
Tucker is someone who might fit even better than Bellager
in some ways. Chris Kershner of The Athletic has written
about that he believes that Tucker is a better fit.
Either way, one or both of those guys probably will
be a pursuit of the Yankees, depending on Grisham. And
they still got Jason Dominguez of course, and they've still
(19:56):
got that Aaron Judge character. But I do expect them
to be somewhat active in the outfield. And then of
course bullpen. Devin Williams a free agent. Luke Weaver is
a free agent. They're going to have to do some
things there. So the Yankees, like always as always, will
be busy this offseason. All right, next question from Pilot
(20:17):
twenty nine to fifty. Even though they made the playoffs
last season, do you think the I can't read this,
hold on, help me out here. Let's see. Oh, there
it is the Guardians will trade Kwan or other big pieces.
All right. Stephen Kwan is a guy who was in
serious demand at the deadline, and the Dodgers were one
of the teams trying to get him, and I expect
those teams will renew their pursuits. The Guardians are a
(20:40):
team that does make trades, but other teams will tell
you they're really difficult to deal with. They set their
price and they don't come off it. People can be
critical of that, but that's the way they operate and
they're pretty successful doing it. They did trade Baber at
the deadline last offseason, a little bit of a different case.
He wasn't active for them at that moment, certainly was.
(21:02):
I don't expect that they're going to trade Kwan. They
view him, I believe, as something of a centerpiece, a
key part of what they do. But they're gonna have
to be creative and flexible as they always are in
how they reshape their roster. They need offense, they need outfielders.
We know that, and I'm not exactly sure how they're
gonna go about getting it all right. Next question, let's
(21:24):
see what this is. This is from Jim Jim Jim Huerte,
who asked what's more realistic from the CBA AHA A
cap floor or a massive restructuring of revenue sharing? Great question.
I still believe a cap floor, salary cap and a
salary floor is not realistic. The players will fight it,
it will require the league to miss time and eat
(21:46):
into the twenty twenty seven season, and as successful as
the sport is right now, as much of a positive
wave it is riding, that to me does not seem
to be the best solution now. Restructuring revenue sharing is
one way to obviously address the inequities that exist in
revenues between the teams, and that's something I've talked about
(22:06):
a lot. We've all talked about it. It's real. It's
a problem for the sport, and it's getting to be
a bigger problem each year. As the Dodgers go this way,
another teams stay at this level. Down here. Restructuring revenue
sharing is one solution. You can also do some things
to enhance competitive competitive balance in other ways, more draft
(22:27):
picks for low revenue teams. You can also do some
other things as well. It's kind of eluding me right now,
but I've got some ideas about what this sport could
do to benefit those clubs, and there are ways to
go about it. You can tax the player, tax the
teams more heavily at the top of the luxury tax scale.
(22:47):
There are all kinds of levers that can be pulled
here short of a salary cap, and if that is
necessary to keep the sport going and make it fairer.
To me, that is the way the sport should go.
All right, more, I think maybe one more, maybe two
before we go what team is more likely to trade
for Schooble as of right now, JJ and in Alasko,
(23:08):
I would say no team is likely to trade for Schooble.
My understanding is the Tigers want to keep Schooble, and
while teams will come at them, and while they will
listen their job to listen, their idea is to compete
next year and be a really good team around him.
They've been a really good team with him, obviously. Now
do I agree with that idea. I'm torn because, on
(23:31):
one hand, if you trade Schooble, you get something in
return that will be greater than the draft pick you
might get after making him a qualifying offer next offseason.
On the other hand, trading a pitcher who likely will
be a two time Cy Young winner, and you're kind
of ripping the fabric of the team apart at a
time when you don't necessarily need to do that, When
(23:51):
you have a chance to go back to the playoffs
for a third straight year and win with Trek Scuble,
that seems to be the Tiger's preference. We'll see how
hard they get pushed. You're asking which team would push
the hardest. I would expect the Mets would be one,
badly need a starting pitcher, and the Dodgers another. But
because Google has only one year of club control remaining,
(24:12):
who knows what the returns might be the return for
Corbyn Burns that the Brewers got two years ago. Was good?
Was it awesome? No? So this is a situation that
will play out this offseason. But again, as of right now,
my expectation is he stays. All right, one more question
before we go, Let's see what we got. JJ Delasco again.
What do the Pirates need to do to be successful
(24:33):
next year? I want to see Skians in the postseason.
A lot of us want to see that. And what
the Pirates need to do is find some offense. Balance
their roster. They are good with pitching. They're really good
with starting pitching. They've got depth there. They can trade
a starting pitcher, not Skiings, but another starting pitcher, maybe
Mitch Keller, maybe someone else to get the bats that
(24:55):
they need. They've resisted doing that, and I understand you've
built this pitching. You don't want to break it up
when it's so fragile. But at the same time, the
Pirates obviously need to get more offense. Their general manager
Ben Sherrington, Pirates owner Bob Nutting kept him well. Now
he's got to do some things to improve this team
in a way that like the Tigers with Scooball. You
(25:18):
would want to take advantage of having schemes, and you've
got them for longer than the Tigers do with Scooball.
All right, that is it for today's show. I want
to thank everyone for watching, for listening. Foul Territory is
coming up. It's Jase Tingler, new Giants coach, Chris Kershcher
of the Athletic Ryan Divish from the Seattle Times and
you're going to join Scott aj and Eric Kratz. Fair
(25:41):
Territory returns Thursday again from the GM Meetings live at
twelve thirty Eastern. I'll talk to you then. Thanks everyone,
Welcome everyone to another edition of Fair Territory. We're coming
to you live from the General Manager's meetings in Las Vegas.
Before we get started, I want to mention Veterans Day
and thank all the veterans, of course for their service.
I know this is the day we always thank them
and take a day to do that, but really it's
every day that we should be thanking the veterans their sacrifice.
(00:21):
It cannot even be described in words, So Happy Veterans
Day to all. Now, as for baseball, it's been quite
an interesting week already because of something that happens off
the field, and of course I'm talking about the indictments
of The Guardian's pitchers, Emmanuel Classe and Luis Ortiz on chargers.
They took bribes from sports vetters on to throw specific
(00:45):
pitches that would trigger prop bets, basically doing things that
were anti integrity, if you want to call it that.
We've talked a lot about what this means about the
gambling aspect, about all the companies, including ours, including everyone
I work for, that is in partnership with gambling companies,
Baseball's partnership with gambling companies. We've also learned Monday yesterday
(01:08):
that Major League Baseball has worked with the sportsbooks to
institute a two hundred dollars limit on pitch level micro
bets and to also exclude them from parlays. I've obviously
the idea is to kind of prevent this from happening
in the future, or at least take a step to
help prevent this from happening. What we haven't talked much
about is the actual effect on the Guardians themselves as
(01:31):
a baseball team. You see there this story from Zach Mazel,
really good story explaining everything that's in the indictment and
all that it came to pass with these two pitchers
the Guardians last year, Remember they did not have these
two guys for their stretch run. Luis Ortiz did not
pitch after June twenty seventh. Emmanuel Class did not pitch
(01:52):
after July twenty sixth. They both were placed on nondisciplinary
paid leave while the Major League Baseball investigation was going on.
What happened, The Guardians did not fall apart without one
of their starting pitchers and their premier closer. They went
nineteen to four down the stretch to win the Al
Central in shocking fashion. Now they lost to the Tigers
(02:13):
in the wildcard round. Now the question becomes, all right,
what about this season? What do they do about these guys?
I assume, but perhaps I should not assume that they
will remain on nondisciplinary paid leave. That's a problem for
the Guardians, who are a low budget team, and classeas
do six point four million in twenty twenty six or
(02:34):
Teas would be right around the minimum salary seven hundred
and eighty thousand. He is not yet eligible for arbitration.
The Guardians certainly can use that money. My understanding is
as of right now that money is not available to them,
but we should learn more about that in the coming days,
so we'll have to see how that all plays out
for the Guardians. Clearly they can figure things out either way.
(02:56):
But if they got some clarity on what these guys
will be paid or not paid, it certainly would help
them as they go forward in the off season. Now,
also in the Al Central, I wrote a notes column
to them, my first one of the off season, and
I led with the Twins. And the Twins are an
interesting team because if you look at them and you
go back to the deadline, they traded everybody well pretty
(03:19):
much everybody their entire bullpen for sure, and a number
of others. So the assumption would be, well, of course
they would continue on this course and trade Pablo Lopez
and more importantly trade Joe Ryan, who was in demand
at the deadline. But the Twins did not get an
offer they liked, and yet there is another way for
them to go, And in talking to some people yesterday
(03:40):
I learned that at least this way is under consideration,
and that way is to compete. It's to keep those
two guys and build around them in what is every
year a winnable al central. The Twins are not like
the Rockies kind of bereft of talent. They've got talent
Byron Buxton, Ryan Lopez, some younger players around on them,
(04:01):
Royce Lewis, Viever, stays healthy. They're not a team that
is necessarily going to be an awful team next year.
If they actually built around these guys, they might be interesting. Now, remember,
they were not sold as they wanted to be, or
at least the poll Out family intended them to be
for one point seven billion. They did not get that price,
(04:22):
and ultimately the family took on two minority investors. It
seemed for the main reason of paying down their debt,
which was around four hundred and twenty five million. Well,
how about putting some money into the team. That might
be an interesting reversal, especially when you've got a new manager,
Derek Shelton, and especially when you've also alienated your fans
(04:43):
the past several years. So this is something to keep
in mind. I'm not saying the Twins are going to
go one way or the other. My understanding is they
don't have a direction yet from ownership on just how
much they could spend. But that's going to be something
to watch. Another team in a similar boat, another team
with a new manager, the Texas Rangers. Skip Schumacher is
their new manager. They're coming off a disappointing season eighty
(05:06):
one and eighty one. We know that their payroll is
not going to be as high they pushed it after
winning the World Series, actually to win the World Series,
and then after that they're going to go backwards a
little bit. They can do some things to lower the
payroll and create some flexibility for some offseason pursuits. They've
got a Goalis Garcia, who is a potential non tender.
(05:27):
They've got jonah Heim who is a potential non tender.
Garcia is at about twelve point six million. I believe
heim six billion. I've got this in the column. I
don't remember the numbers off the top of my head.
So most likely one of them will to be non tender.
Can they go further? I don't know that they would
go further. Could you trade Marcus Simon and save some
money that way? I don't know that anyone would want Simeon.
(05:48):
He's in decline, he's thirty five. But this is a
team that's going to face some interesting decisions again, because
they have a new manager, you would think they don't
simply want to go backwards. In fact, they are very
competitive group. Chris Young, their general manager, former pitcher, he
wants to get back into the mix. So the Rangers
(06:08):
are going to be an interesting team to watch as well.
They need another starting pitcher, a back end guy. Most
likely they will need a catcher if they non tender him.
They obviously need to fix their bullpen and rebuild that,
and maybe they'll need a right handed hitting outfielder as well.
Can they do all that within the financial constraints they're
going to be under. Well, we're going to find out
(06:29):
and Finally, in this segment, I want to talk about
Kyle Hendricks. Kyle Hendricks announced his retirement yesterday, and he
is such an interesting player in so many regards. First
of all, congratulations to Kyle on a tremendous career. He's
a guy that my producer Jeremy Meyer pointed out today
would maybe not get signed as an amateur if he
(06:49):
was coming up through the ranks. He didn't throw hard.
He is a guy that thrived on pitching, not just
on velocity, and today, of course the great emphasis is
on velocity and making your breaking pitches spin as fast
as they can and break as hard as they can.
Kyle Hendricks was not that guy, and yet he had
a wonderful career. Of course, it was highlighted by the
(07:11):
twenty sixteen World Series, in which he started Games three
and seven for the Cubs and allowed only one earned
run in nine innings. You see there, Patrick Mooney, he
describes Kyle Hendricks as an under the radar prospect out
of Dartmouth who developed into a World Series champion and
one of the most consequential Cubs pitchers ever. And he's
exiting the game the way he came in with zero fanfare.
(07:33):
Kyle Hendricks one of the more modest guys you will
ever meet. He was never about himself. He was always
about the team. That is why he was a beloved teammate.
And you go back to that twenty sixteen World Series, well,
Game three, four and a third scoreless innings Cubs lost,
that won nothing. If you remember, they fell behind three
games to one in this World Series before winning the
(07:54):
final three with Kyle Hendricks starting Game seven, pitching four
and two thirds innings, allowing two runs, just one was earned.
The Cubs, of course, went on to that dramatic eight
to seven victory with the rain delay, the Jason Haywood speech,
and they broke the Guardian's hearts. They were then the Indians,
and that World Series was so meaningful for so many
(08:15):
because of the fact the Cubs had not won since
nineteen oh eight, not two thousand and eight, and the
Guardians have not one and still have not one since
nineteen forty five. So again, great job his whole career.
To Kyle Hendricks, congratulations on your retirement once more. And
you were a pleasure to watch man, a pleasure to cover,
a pleasure to watch. We'll be back with the inside
(08:37):
Dish after this.
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Speaker 1 (09:41):
Well, well, well, well, time time now for the inside dish,
the part of the show where I talk about maybe
something i've written, a trend in the game, or sometimes
a combination of both. And that is what I'm going
to do today. On Friday, I wrote a column about
the managerial hirings all that we've seen so far, the
(10:03):
traditional the non traditional, And in that column I questioned
some of the teams for maybe getting too cute, trying
to be too creative in outsmarting their opposition and figuring
out the next big thing. Now, this column got a
lot of reaction, as columns often do. That's kind of
the idea when you write something. And I wrote it
(10:23):
because it was bugging me what was going on. And
sometimes the best columns come from when something is just
bothering you. Now, what was this about. It was about
the hirings of for managers from non traditional backgrounds. Of course,
Tony Vaytello, college coach from Tennessee being first and foremost
among them. He is a guy who has never been
(10:45):
in professional baseball. Then there was Blake Terra, at thirty three,
the youngest manager to take over a team since nineteen
seventy two. He's a guy who's never managed above a ball,
never been in the major leagues either. And then there
was Kurt Suzuki with the Angels and Craig Stammon with
the Padres. Former players, guys who are serving as special
(11:05):
assistance with their teams but never coached or managed. Now
there were four other hires, or have been, four other
hires from the more traditional path that we normally see
from coaching staffs in Major League Baseball or previous managers,
guys who are getting a second chance. Three of those
guys qualified in that regard, Skip Schumacher with the Rangers,
(11:26):
WoT Weiss with the Braves, and Derek Shelton with the Twins.
And then there's Craig alban As with the Orioles. He
was a bench coach with the Guardians for two years
under Steven Vote, and of course before that a coach
with the Giants as well. So that's the traditional path.
So I wrote this questioning the new ones, and of
course the Rockies still linked to hire a manager, and
(11:47):
their hire as a President of Baseball Operations, Paulled the
Podesta was perhaps the most surprising hire of all, considering
that the Podesta has been out of baseball for about
a decade. He was in the front office of the
NFL Cleveland Browns. So you might ask, and people did ask, Ken,
why are you all hot and bothered about this? Anytime
you hire a manager, it's a risk. And I've thought
(12:09):
about this after I wrote the column and gave it
some more thought, and I thought back to my own career,
in my own start in baseball writing, and I was
hired at age twenty four without any experience covering Major
League baseball on a regular basis by the Baltimore Evening Sun.
The sports editor was Jack Gibbons, and he took a
chance on me, but as these teams are taking a
(12:31):
chance on these managers, and basically his thought was that
I could grow into the job. And I guess that's
what happened. I would hope that people think that's what happened.
I've been doing it long enough now. But at the
same time, I still see this situation in baseball as different.
And I see it as different because at that time
when I was hired, while yes I'm sure Jack Gibbons
(12:53):
snubbed a lot of more qualified candidates, those guys were
getting jobs elsewhere, it was not a there were a
lot of baseball writing jobs, and this was kind of
an unusual circumstance. Today in baseball, when the unconventional hires
are made, it's not so unusual. We've seen that. And
my concern again is the teams get too cute. They
(13:15):
try to show how smart they are. And we see
this not just in their hirings. We see this with
player acquisition, we see this with in game strategy, and yes,
we see this in the way they go about picking
their new managers and sometimes their new coaches as well.
And here's the thing. The managing job is extremely difficult.
(13:36):
It's a lot harder than being a twenty four year
old baseball writer. It's a lot bigger risk to take
a chance in a multi million dollar business with someone
who has not done the job before. Not quite the
same as what I was experiencing, or what the Baltimore
Evening Sun was experiencing when they hired me in nineteen
eighty seven. So during the off season, I'm sorry, during
(13:56):
the postseason, when I was with the Blue Jays for
in the entire post division series LCS World Series, their
manager John Schneider, spoke often. We met with him every
day as a broadcast group, and he spoke often about
how much he has learned in his time as a manager.
He was a minor league manager for eight years, he
was a major league coach for three plus seasons. He
(14:17):
followed that traditional path, and yet when he got the job,
he still had a long way to go to become
the manager he is today and potentially the American League
Manager of the Year which will be named tonight, and
Schneiner spoke about how he needed to evolve, learn from
his mistakes, learn to adjust to situations, exercise, feel, read
(14:42):
and react. He's done a better job of that than
he did earlier. All of these managers who are coming
in for the first time, they're going to need how
to learn to do the job first of all, and
they're going to need to refine themselves over a matter
of time as well. It's not easy. So that's my
concern now. The same thing. At the same time, the
(15:04):
other part of this is that, again, as I mentioned,
quality people are getting overlooked. We have David Ross and
bread and Hyde, guys who deserve a second chance. Were
they great managers in their first shots? Maybe not, But
we've seen managers grow a lot in their second jobs.
We also see and know managers in minor leagues, managers
(15:28):
even in who well coaches in the major leagues. These
guys are waiting, and they're waiting for their chances, and
they feel, hey, what about me. So it's a complicated discussion.
And for all I know, maybe all of these guys
that I'm talking about will prove major successes. When I
wrote this column, I cited my original column when Aaron
(15:49):
Boone was hired by the Yankees, and I said that
maybe I was being too alarmist in that column because
I was critical of that higher I don't recall too
many people being critical of it, but I was because
the no coaching or managing experience. Obviously, Aaron Boone has
proven to be a great success. I was wrong on him,
and I said as much in the column. And if
I'm wrong on all these first time managers, I'll be
(16:11):
happy to say as much again. But I just have
a hard time that all of them are hard time
believing that are going to succeed. In my view, experience
in this position still matters well, at least it should.
All right back with Grill and Ken right after.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
This, Hey, an easy way to support the show and
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(16:49):
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subscribe to foul to Territory on YouTube. We are getting
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(17:11):
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Speaker 1 (17:24):
Time out for grilling can the part of the show
where I answer your questions. Let's get right to them. First.
One comes from Richard Proctor, who asks which team do
you think is most likely to part with their prospects
in order to better their major league roster? Always a
good question, and one Richard that is kind of difficult
(17:44):
to answer because I don't know what teams exactly are thinking,
But I would say this, the Mets are a team
that have built their farm system in recent years, especially
under David Stearns. They're in a position now where they
can make some trades. The Dodgers have a strong farm system,
they certainly can make some trades. But what would be
more intriguing would be if we saw teams like, for instance,
(18:07):
the Marlins and the Pirates do some things to better
themselves by trading from their depth of prospects. And I
do believe that is possible. Yesterday, and talking to some
people here just the first day of the GM meetings,
actually it wasn't even the first day. People were just
getting in. I heard that the Marlins and Pirates are
telling agents, Hey, we'd like to be aggressive, We'd like
(18:28):
to spend a little bit now. That can be in
free agency, or it can be in the matter of
taking on salaries in trades. So I don't know the
exact answer to your question, Richard, but I do expect
that we're going to see some of this kind of activity,
and not just from the big spending teams that have
tons of prospects. You may see it from some other
clubs as well. Next question, this one comes from Peter
(18:51):
Ross nineteen oh seven. Peter asked, what do you think
the Yankees are doing this off season? Starting pitcher would
be one thing. Joel Sherman what an interesting Colum New
York post today about how while the Yankees will have
Rodin coming back, and I'll have Cole coming back at
some point, maybe even early in the season, they need
to protect themselves. They need to get another starter, Max
(19:13):
Fritz coming off a big workload. They've got obviously a
good group, but you always need more. So I expect
starting pitching to be one thing, and then the outfield
going to be really interesting. So Trent Grisham got the
qualifying offer. We don't know if he's going to accept
or not. Obviously, if he accepts, that's one spot. They
(19:34):
do want bellunder back. They've talked about that, but Kyle
Tucker is someone who might fit even better than Bellager
in some ways. Chris Kershner of The Athletic has written
about that he believes that Tucker is a better fit.
Either way, one or both of those guys probably will
be a pursuit of the Yankees, depending on Grisham. And
they still got Jason Dominguez of course, and they've still
(19:56):
got that Aaron Judge character. But I do expect them
to be somewhat active in the outfield. And then of
course bullpen. Devin Williams a free agent. Luke Weaver is
a free agent. They're going to have to do some
things there. So the Yankees, like always as always, will
be busy this offseason. All right, next question from Pilot
(20:17):
twenty nine to fifty. Even though they made the playoffs
last season, do you think the I can't read this,
hold on, help me out here. Let's see. Oh, there
it is the Guardians will trade Kwan or other big pieces.
All right. Stephen Kwan is a guy who was in
serious demand at the deadline, and the Dodgers were one
of the teams trying to get him, and I expect
those teams will renew their pursuits. The Guardians are a
(20:40):
team that does make trades, but other teams will tell
you they're really difficult to deal with. They set their
price and they don't come off it. People can be
critical of that, but that's the way they operate and
they're pretty successful doing it. They did trade Baber at
the deadline last offseason, a little bit of a different case.
He wasn't active for them at that moment, certainly was.
(21:02):
I don't expect that they're going to trade Kwan. They
view him, I believe, as something of a centerpiece, a
key part of what they do. But they're gonna have
to be creative and flexible as they always are in
how they reshape their roster. They need offense, they need outfielders.
We know that, and I'm not exactly sure how they're
gonna go about getting it all right. Next question, let's
(21:24):
see what this is. This is from Jim Jim Jim Huerte,
who asked what's more realistic from the CBA AHA A
cap floor or a massive restructuring of revenue sharing? Great question.
I still believe a cap floor, salary cap and a
salary floor is not realistic. The players will fight it,
it will require the league to miss time and eat
(21:46):
into the twenty twenty seven season, and as successful as
the sport is right now, as much of a positive
wave it is riding, that to me does not seem
to be the best solution now. Restructuring revenue sharing is
one way to obviously address the inequities that exist in
revenues between the teams, and that's something I've talked about
(22:06):
a lot. We've all talked about it. It's real. It's
a problem for the sport, and it's getting to be
a bigger problem each year. As the Dodgers go this way,
another teams stay at this level. Down here. Restructuring revenue
sharing is one solution. You can also do some things
to enhance competitive competitive balance in other ways, more draft
(22:27):
picks for low revenue teams. You can also do some
other things as well. It's kind of eluding me right now,
but I've got some ideas about what this sport could
do to benefit those clubs, and there are ways to
go about it. You can tax the player, tax the
teams more heavily at the top of the luxury tax scale.
(22:47):
There are all kinds of levers that can be pulled
here short of a salary cap, and if that is
necessary to keep the sport going and make it fairer.
To me, that is the way the sport should go.
All right, more, I think maybe one more, maybe two
before we go what team is more likely to trade
for Schooble as of right now, JJ and in Alasko,
(23:08):
I would say no team is likely to trade for Schooble.
My understanding is the Tigers want to keep Schooble, and
while teams will come at them, and while they will
listen their job to listen, their idea is to compete
next year and be a really good team around him.
They've been a really good team with him, obviously. Now
do I agree with that idea. I'm torn because, on
(23:31):
one hand, if you trade Schooble, you get something in
return that will be greater than the draft pick you
might get after making him a qualifying offer next offseason.
On the other hand, trading a pitcher who likely will
be a two time Cy Young winner, and you're kind
of ripping the fabric of the team apart at a
time when you don't necessarily need to do that, When
(23:51):
you have a chance to go back to the playoffs
for a third straight year and win with Trek Scuble,
that seems to be the Tiger's preference. We'll see how
hard they get pushed. You're asking which team would push
the hardest. I would expect the Mets would be one,
badly need a starting pitcher, and the Dodgers another. But
because Google has only one year of club control remaining,
(24:12):
who knows what the returns might be the return for
Corbyn Burns that the Brewers got two years ago. Was good?
Was it awesome? No? So this is a situation that
will play out this offseason. But again, as of right now,
my expectation is he stays. All right, one more question
before we go, Let's see what we got. JJ Delasco again.
What do the Pirates need to do to be successful
(24:33):
next year? I want to see Skians in the postseason.
A lot of us want to see that. And what
the Pirates need to do is find some offense. Balance
their roster. They are good with pitching. They're really good
with starting pitching. They've got depth there. They can trade
a starting pitcher, not Skiings, but another starting pitcher, maybe
Mitch Keller, maybe someone else to get the bats that
(24:55):
they need. They've resisted doing that, and I understand you've
built this pitching. You don't want to break it up
when it's so fragile. But at the same time, the
Pirates obviously need to get more offense. Their general manager
Ben Sherrington, Pirates owner Bob Nutting kept him well. Now
he's got to do some things to improve this team
in a way that like the Tigers with Scooball. You
(25:18):
would want to take advantage of having schemes, and you've
got them for longer than the Tigers do with Scooball.
All right, that is it for today's show. I want
to thank everyone for watching, for listening. Foul Territory is
coming up. It's Jase Tingler, new Giants coach, Chris Kershcher
of the Athletic Ryan Divish from the Seattle Times and
you're going to join Scott aj and Eric Kratz. Fair
(25:41):
Territory returns Thursday again from the GM Meetings live at
twelve thirty Eastern. I'll talk to you then. Thanks everyone,
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