June 10, 2025 • 11 mins
We hear a lot about the gender pay gap, and the work being done to slowly close it. But this gap isn’t just reflected in salaries and wages. It’s perhaps even more pronounced in superannuation, where men are retiring with vastly larger sums than women.
Kiran Bhullar, Private Client Adviser at UniSuper, joins Sean Aylmer in the studio to discuss strategies to close the super gap, including the role of policy changes, financial education, and collaboration within a household.
UniSuper is a supporter of Fear & Greed.
Find out more: https://fearandgreed.com.au/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm Suan Alma.
We hear a lot about the gender pay gap and
the work being done to slowly close it. But this
gap isn't just reflective in salaries and wages. It's perhaps
even more pronounced in superannuation, where men are retiring with
vastly larger sums than women. Kiaren Buller is a private
client advisor at Unisuper, which is a trivick supporter of
(00:28):
this podcast. She joins me in our Melbourne studio. Kieren,
Welcome to Fear and Greed.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Hi Sean, great to be here, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
The gender super pay gap, how big is it? How
big an issue is it?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
It is quite a significant issue, and it reflects the
disparity between average balances in men and women, and women
are retiring with almost a quarter less in their super
than men, and if you combine that with the fact
that women do live longer, it is a significant issue
and it could be a difference between retiring comfortably and
(01:02):
just graping it in. And there's a lot of debate
around this, a lot being sent, government are being blobbied. However,
there is still a significant amount of work that is
required to bridge this. We do find that it starts
off quite early, as women in their maybe mid twenties
and thirties lee workforce to have children. Even at that point,
(01:28):
an average you know, women with same salaries as men
could have a super gap of approximately fourteen percent.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
And because of the child rearing, because of yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
As a v workforce, Yeah, for caring responsibilities. So it's
not just the pay gap, I mean pay gap is
a significant issue women in general. The pay gap in
Australia is eleven point nine percent, which is two hundred
and thirty dollars a week. So what that means is
women are earning less than men, which equates to about
(02:02):
twelve thousand, eight hundred in a year. And if you
consider the impact on superannuation, that's over fourteen hundred dollars
a year less in their superannuation savings per year. Now,
if you look at that issue that women do get
paid less and combine that with the fact that women
do take time off workforce to have children, and initially
(02:24):
in their mid twenties or thirties, this gap in their
super could be fourteen percent. However, it compounds over their lifetimes.
So if you look at in the forties, women when
they re enter workforce, whether in part time or lower
paying jobs. The fact that women paid are paid less
(02:44):
and when they go back to work there could be
a bit of a gap in them being able to
get higher paying jobs in terms of promotion cliff we
call it or a motherhood penalty. We find women are
entering into female dominated careers for example healthcare, and they
(03:07):
are overrepresented in lower paying jobs, so this gap tends
to widen in their forties. And when we see in
the fifties, we further see that women, due to various
factors such as menopause or caring for elderly or aging
family members, they again either go part time or take
(03:29):
time off work. It often defaults to women to take
time off work to provide caring, whether it be children
or elderly family members, which not only just results in
lower contributions in their SUPER but also ends up manifesting
itself in lower compounding returns over their lifetimes and could
(03:51):
be one hundred thousand dollars less in SUPER for women,
which is a significant issue.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yes, is this something that's gotten any better? We have
spoken about it for a while, and I want to
come to potentially what we should be doing about it.
But in twenty twenty five has it improved at all?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
In the last decade or so, there has been a
lot of research done. We have seen figures that previously,
the data that came out in twenty fifteen said it
was about forty seven percent less. Now the latest data
we are seeing is probably more promising. When we generally
see women are breaking barriers, they are entering occupations and
(04:31):
even in UNIE Super I work in Unie Souper. We
have forty two percent of our senior leadership as women.
So we have the target of forty percent as senior
leaders to be women and we have obviously exceeded that
and sixty percent of our members are women in the
workforce in higher education sector, so we do see women
(04:51):
actually are breaking barriers. They're doing really well. However, there
is still this superannuation gap that exists and is for
assistance and it is a scary number if you think
about how it impacts the confidence peace and women, how
it impacts their lifestyle and retirement, how it impacts their
(05:12):
quality of life, not just in working years but even
in retirement.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Yeah, I want to come to some of those issues
in a moment, but there is a structural issue here
in that women give birth so they have time off. Now,
maybe it's more of a social issue about caring for
children when they're young or caring for older parents. But
is there something we can do so that if women
have twelve months off when they give birth, they don't
(05:38):
fall behind. I mean, I know the Albenezi government has
been pushing down that path, but we're a long way
from it. What needs to be done.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah, the responsibility isn't just on women. It is almost
like if you have a partner, it's a teamwork. You
need to start thinking on those lines what women's partners
can do. So you have to start thinking because there
aren't just benefits to women in this, you know, there
are also benefits to the partners. They miss out a lot.
If you have a male partner who doesn't spend time
(06:11):
with children, it is equally there missing out. So we
are seeing employers are modernizing the paid parental leave policies.
I'm really pleased to say the government is starting superannuation
from one July twenty twenty five on paid parental leave,
which is a quick win for women and in you know,
(06:31):
it helps in bridging some of that superannuation gap that exists. So, yes,
there has been work done, but there is a lot
that can be done. One of the things which I
think as financial advisors we can do is highlight where
you can make a difference. So one of the things
that we advocate a lot is women to take active
participation in financial planning and financial decisions, for them to
(06:55):
be involved in decision making. You should both come together
and make decisions decisions and be aware of what opportunities
are there throughout your working lives. Governments are being lobbied,
but change of this nature can take time. What is
it that we can do ourselves and where we can
take accountability of some things that we can do in
(07:16):
order to bridge the gap and build the difference. For example,
if we know that there is this issue that may
take years to be resolved, or we have equity in this,
So what can we do If I have a daughter
and she's entering workforce, and I can educate her to
make a difference and start thinking about the fact that
(07:38):
women are likely to have career breaks. What can she
do if she was to save and put fifty dollars
aside in her superannuation a week. What does that mean.
So someone's starting out today in their mid twenties and
they have forty years of working life ahead of them,
fifty dollars a week could be over one point one
million dollars if you consider seven percent compound interest. If
(08:01):
you're in your mid thirties, never too late, it's five
hundred and sixty thousand dollars. The fact that you can
invest and take a bit more proactive approach investment earnings
and compounding returns can make a huge difference. So seven
percent return compared to six percent return can actually make
a huge difference in the quality of life you're going
(08:22):
to have in retirement.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Something you mentioned a moment ago financial confidence. What about
the non monetary impacts of the pay gap, the gender
pay gap in superinnoation, I kind of get that financial
conference because if you don't have as much money, you
just don't have the confidence necessarily.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah, you don't want to be stuck in a situation.
You want to Money makes things happen. It is a
sense of control you can have, what quality of life
you're going to have. It's financial planning isn't just about money.
It is about your dreams. It is about your goals.
It is about what you envisage, what type of life
you're going to have. We have a lot of research
(09:00):
and data on domestic violence issues, how women feel less
stuck in a position. I mean, you want to have
ability to make the difference and have the control in
your hands, and that those issues, I guess are something
that we find women struggle a lot. We see that
women take career breaks and you know, then comes a
(09:21):
time where there's other divorce or separation and they're left.
There's a lot being said about single women are the
highest risk at poverty alder women. That is a shocking statistic.
And in my twenty years in financial planning, I have
worked with a lot of strong, independent women who have
(09:41):
done fantastic in their careers. But at the same time,
I have worked with women who don't have ability to know.
There's a lot of uncertainty. Their confidence in the quality
of life they're going to have is shaken, It is
eroded just because they don't understand what they need and
(10:02):
that confidence piece.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
We are out of time, but it's kind of wrapping
it up here. In a sense. There is progress being made,
but there's plenty more to make if we are to
narrow this gender pay gap in superannuation.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Absolutely there are a lot of steps one can do
too narrow. I guess what one tip would be to
be aware of your current position, be aware of your
cash flow, and take more control, more proactive, more intentional
control of your ability to save and invest. Women need
to feel confident about their future and money is a
(10:40):
part of it, but it will make it happen for you.
So you need to take a bit more charge. And
in case you don't know how to, there is help available.
Come and see us, Come and see your super fund.
They might be advice on simple topics like investments or contributions,
which can help you gain clarity on the lifestyle that
(11:01):
you can have.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Kieran, thank you very much for talking to Fear and Greed.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Thanks Sean.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
That was Karen Buller, private client advisor at Unisuper. This
is the Fear and Greed Business Interview. Join us every
morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed Business
news for people who make their own decisions. I'm Jane Elmer.
Enjoy your day.
Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm Suan Alma.
We hear a lot about the gender pay gap and
the work being done to slowly close it. But this
gap isn't just reflective in salaries and wages. It's perhaps
even more pronounced in superannuation, where men are retiring with
vastly larger sums than women. Kiaren Buller is a private
client advisor at Unisuper, which is a trivick supporter of
(00:28):
this podcast. She joins me in our Melbourne studio. Kieren,
Welcome to Fear and Greed.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Hi Sean, great to be here, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
The gender super pay gap, how big is it? How
big an issue is it?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
It is quite a significant issue, and it reflects the
disparity between average balances in men and women, and women
are retiring with almost a quarter less in their super
than men, and if you combine that with the fact
that women do live longer, it is a significant issue
and it could be a difference between retiring comfortably and
(01:02):
just graping it in. And there's a lot of debate
around this, a lot being sent, government are being blobbied. However,
there is still a significant amount of work that is
required to bridge this. We do find that it starts
off quite early, as women in their maybe mid twenties
and thirties lee workforce to have children. Even at that point,
(01:28):
an average you know, women with same salaries as men
could have a super gap of approximately fourteen percent.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
And because of the child rearing, because of yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
As a v workforce, Yeah, for caring responsibilities. So it's
not just the pay gap, I mean pay gap is
a significant issue women in general. The pay gap in
Australia is eleven point nine percent, which is two hundred
and thirty dollars a week. So what that means is
women are earning less than men, which equates to about
(02:02):
twelve thousand, eight hundred in a year. And if you
consider the impact on superannuation, that's over fourteen hundred dollars
a year less in their superannuation savings per year. Now,
if you look at that issue that women do get
paid less and combine that with the fact that women
do take time off workforce to have children, and initially
(02:24):
in their mid twenties or thirties, this gap in their
super could be fourteen percent. However, it compounds over their lifetimes.
So if you look at in the forties, women when
they re enter workforce, whether in part time or lower
paying jobs. The fact that women paid are paid less
(02:44):
and when they go back to work there could be
a bit of a gap in them being able to
get higher paying jobs in terms of promotion cliff we
call it or a motherhood penalty. We find women are
entering into female dominated careers for example healthcare, and they
(03:07):
are overrepresented in lower paying jobs, so this gap tends
to widen in their forties. And when we see in
the fifties, we further see that women, due to various
factors such as menopause or caring for elderly or aging
family members, they again either go part time or take
(03:29):
time off work. It often defaults to women to take
time off work to provide caring, whether it be children
or elderly family members, which not only just results in
lower contributions in their SUPER but also ends up manifesting
itself in lower compounding returns over their lifetimes and could
(03:51):
be one hundred thousand dollars less in SUPER for women,
which is a significant issue.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yes, is this something that's gotten any better? We have
spoken about it for a while, and I want to
come to potentially what we should be doing about it.
But in twenty twenty five has it improved at all?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
In the last decade or so, there has been a
lot of research done. We have seen figures that previously,
the data that came out in twenty fifteen said it
was about forty seven percent less. Now the latest data
we are seeing is probably more promising. When we generally
see women are breaking barriers, they are entering occupations and
(04:31):
even in UNIE Super I work in Unie Souper. We
have forty two percent of our senior leadership as women.
So we have the target of forty percent as senior
leaders to be women and we have obviously exceeded that
and sixty percent of our members are women in the
workforce in higher education sector, so we do see women
(04:51):
actually are breaking barriers. They're doing really well. However, there
is still this superannuation gap that exists and is for
assistance and it is a scary number if you think
about how it impacts the confidence peace and women, how
it impacts their lifestyle and retirement, how it impacts their
(05:12):
quality of life, not just in working years but even
in retirement.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Yeah, I want to come to some of those issues
in a moment, but there is a structural issue here
in that women give birth so they have time off. Now,
maybe it's more of a social issue about caring for
children when they're young or caring for older parents. But
is there something we can do so that if women
have twelve months off when they give birth, they don't
(05:38):
fall behind. I mean, I know the Albenezi government has
been pushing down that path, but we're a long way
from it. What needs to be done.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah, the responsibility isn't just on women. It is almost
like if you have a partner, it's a teamwork. You
need to start thinking on those lines what women's partners
can do. So you have to start thinking because there
aren't just benefits to women in this, you know, there
are also benefits to the partners. They miss out a lot.
If you have a male partner who doesn't spend time
(06:11):
with children, it is equally there missing out. So we
are seeing employers are modernizing the paid parental leave policies.
I'm really pleased to say the government is starting superannuation
from one July twenty twenty five on paid parental leave,
which is a quick win for women and in you know,
(06:31):
it helps in bridging some of that superannuation gap that exists. So, yes,
there has been work done, but there is a lot
that can be done. One of the things which I
think as financial advisors we can do is highlight where
you can make a difference. So one of the things
that we advocate a lot is women to take active
participation in financial planning and financial decisions, for them to
(06:55):
be involved in decision making. You should both come together
and make decisions decisions and be aware of what opportunities
are there throughout your working lives. Governments are being lobbied,
but change of this nature can take time. What is
it that we can do ourselves and where we can
take accountability of some things that we can do in
(07:16):
order to bridge the gap and build the difference. For example,
if we know that there is this issue that may
take years to be resolved, or we have equity in this,
So what can we do If I have a daughter
and she's entering workforce, and I can educate her to
make a difference and start thinking about the fact that
(07:38):
women are likely to have career breaks. What can she
do if she was to save and put fifty dollars
aside in her superannuation a week. What does that mean.
So someone's starting out today in their mid twenties and
they have forty years of working life ahead of them,
fifty dollars a week could be over one point one
million dollars if you consider seven percent compound interest. If
(08:01):
you're in your mid thirties, never too late, it's five
hundred and sixty thousand dollars. The fact that you can
invest and take a bit more proactive approach investment earnings
and compounding returns can make a huge difference. So seven
percent return compared to six percent return can actually make
a huge difference in the quality of life you're going
(08:22):
to have in retirement.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Something you mentioned a moment ago financial confidence. What about
the non monetary impacts of the pay gap, the gender
pay gap in superinnoation, I kind of get that financial
conference because if you don't have as much money, you
just don't have the confidence necessarily.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah, you don't want to be stuck in a situation.
You want to Money makes things happen. It is a
sense of control you can have, what quality of life
you're going to have. It's financial planning isn't just about money.
It is about your dreams. It is about your goals.
It is about what you envisage, what type of life
you're going to have. We have a lot of research
(09:00):
and data on domestic violence issues, how women feel less
stuck in a position. I mean, you want to have
ability to make the difference and have the control in
your hands, and that those issues, I guess are something
that we find women struggle a lot. We see that
women take career breaks and you know, then comes a
(09:21):
time where there's other divorce or separation and they're left.
There's a lot being said about single women are the
highest risk at poverty alder women. That is a shocking statistic.
And in my twenty years in financial planning, I have
worked with a lot of strong, independent women who have
(09:41):
done fantastic in their careers. But at the same time,
I have worked with women who don't have ability to know.
There's a lot of uncertainty. Their confidence in the quality
of life they're going to have is shaken, It is
eroded just because they don't understand what they need and
(10:02):
that confidence piece.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
We are out of time, but it's kind of wrapping
it up here. In a sense. There is progress being made,
but there's plenty more to make if we are to
narrow this gender pay gap in superannuation.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Absolutely there are a lot of steps one can do
too narrow. I guess what one tip would be to
be aware of your current position, be aware of your
cash flow, and take more control, more proactive, more intentional
control of your ability to save and invest. Women need
to feel confident about their future and money is a
(10:40):
part of it, but it will make it happen for you.
So you need to take a bit more charge. And
in case you don't know how to, there is help available.
Come and see us, Come and see your super fund.
They might be advice on simple topics like investments or contributions,
which can help you gain clarity on the lifestyle that
(11:01):
you can have.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Kieran, thank you very much for talking to Fear and Greed.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Thanks Sean.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
That was Karen Buller, private client advisor at Unisuper. This
is the Fear and Greed Business Interview. Join us every
morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed Business
news for people who make their own decisions. I'm Jane Elmer.
Enjoy your day.
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