July 16, 2025 • 12 mins
AMSL Aero is a company trying to make many childhood dreams come true - flying cars.
The company's aircraft, known as evTOL - electric vertical take-off and landing - lifts and lands like a helicopter, but flies like a plane.
CEO of AMSL Aero, Adriano Di Pietro, joins Sean Aylmer in the studio to talk about the aircraft, its use cases, and how close it is to becoming a reality.
Find out more: https://fearandgreed.com.au
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean Almer.
A change of pace today. Amsl Ero is a company
trying to make many childhood dreams come true. Sort of
flying cars, kind of. The Sydney headquartered business company was
founded by aeronautical engineer Andrew Moore and former Google executive
Chevorn Linden in twenty seventeen, and it's aircraft known as
(00:27):
ev Toll Electric vertical takeoff and landing lifts and lands
like a helicopter, but flies like a plane. The CEO
of amsl is Adriano d Pietro, and I welcome him
to the studio. Adriana, Welcome to Fear and Greed.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Yeah, thanks to all for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
So tell me about I mean, this is kind of
child or dream stuff. And I must say we picked
this up because it's a great story in the fin
review about a fundraising that you're doing. But just give
me the history of amsl where it's come from, where
it's up to.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yeah, sure, I mean, look, the company was founded in
twenty seventeen and about that time, a little a few
years earlier, there started to be a bit of a
surge in what was being called advanced air mobility. So
this idea, like with the electrification of our cars, that
we could see a green electric future for aviation, but
also with some of the other technology that was developing
(01:22):
at the time digital systems. Everyone says AI, but a
bit of that too, that maybe these aircraft could do
something different. And that was where this vertical takeoff a
landing piece comes into the story. And all of a
sudden you start to think about aircraft that could point
to point land on a dime, do it cleanly, guilt free, quietly,
(01:43):
more safely. So we talk about, you know, things in
electric cars being simpler, same thinking with with aircraft, and
so I think it was really with what was happening
internationally around this push toward what was being called advanced
air mobility. That's Andrew and Chavonn coming out of some
work that they'd been doing, had seen an opportunity here
(02:05):
in Australia and that Journeys then progressed. So from twenty
seventeen the company was supported by some really great investors.
IP Group was one of those that came on really early,
sort of spinning the technology an idea out of University
of Sydney and looking at the opportunity to develop our
own ev tol here in Australia, leveraging great competence in
(02:29):
aeronautical and aerospace engineering that we have for many years.
You know, Bowen's largest presence outside of the US is
Fisherman's Bend in Melbourne, but also off the back of
some projects that had happened here in Sydney, the Yamaha
helicopter project which was known to some and bringing that
team together around really going hard at this race that
was happening, and I would say perhaps a bit of
(02:51):
a hype curve, certainly the upward trend at that time.
And you know, fast forward through COVID getting off the
drawing board out into ground based testing. End of twenty
twenty four, ams Aero joined one of only a few
companies in the world to flight test their prototype. And
(03:11):
so really, if you look at what's happening in this space,
you know, stuff of dreams, as you said, flying cars
sort of, we're now venturing into a space where you know,
this is real. It's there are a lot of venders
out there in this future idyllic world, but we've got
real aircraft prototypes that are flying and we are now
(03:33):
on a race for scale up in fairness, where the
opportunity is becoming certainly very real right now, and the
runway that we've got to get to market with a
commercial product.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Okay, so I've seen a picture of their vehicles. Just
explain what they're like. And I mean they literally hover
to take off and land. But then I think three
hundred kometers or something. Yeah, yeah, I mean, so explain that.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Yeah, So it's so your point of the flying car
sort of. These are still an aircraft, so people I
think relate most to when we describe them similar to
a drone. These are a large drone that can take
people and cargo five hundred kilos of payload in fact.
And what you'd see when you see our aircraft is
(04:19):
a design with multiple roaders. We have eight, four on
each side, two on each four and a half wing.
That's all about safety and redundancy, but it's also about
the lift we need to get such a large aircraft
off the ground and as you say, take off like
a helicopter, so vertically off of those roaders, and then
our aircraft uniquely tilts those roaders forward and then starts
(04:43):
to fly forward like an airplane, and we actually have
wings like an aircraft, and that's where we hit those
three hundred klometer an hour speeds. So take off like
a helicopter, fly forward like a plane, and then land
like a helicopter.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Okay, so many questions. They're electric, yes, all right? Are
they for passengers or are they for cargo?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Both? Is the short. I mean, we have a first
a few first customers that we're really focusing on aeromedical applications.
So that's absolutely for people.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
So that could be a medical person, a doctor in
there trying to get somewhere, yes, to help out.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
And their ambulance of sorts. But absolutely the opportunity that
we're seeing with digital technology, with autonomy, with drones and
what still have been there that these would be uncrude,
so no people on board, and you can imagine we
could deliver very large payloads point to point.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Okay, stay with me, Adriana, we'll be back in a minute.
I'm speaking to Adriano di Pietro, CEO of amsl Ero.
You've had test flights. How close are we to reality
(05:57):
to this actually being a thing that someone can go
and spend money on?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
So certainly out our timeline is twenty thirty for market
launch and commercial release, so in the next five years.
But what you'll see between now and then is a
series of testing programs that we will go through. So
we will be flying throughout those years on our certification.
You know, that's with CASSA here in Australia, our certification
(06:22):
pathway to get to market. So you know, we really
are closer than you think to seeing these regularly in
the skies as we do as we undertake that work.
There are others in the race, that's for sure, and
I think what you will start to see is a
surge in the activity around seeing advanced their mobility integrated
into transport systems.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Okay, so you're talking about Casasill Aviation Safety Authority. Are
they on top of the regulations on this? I mean,
are there certain rules around how high you can fly,
where you can fly, all that type of thing.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah, really good question, and I would say I think
early on there certainly was an issue where technology was
leading regulation and that certainly we've had some early developers.
Jobi in the US is one. There's Archer, a vertical
in the UK where there was a journey that they
were on where the pathway wasn't defined that's no longer
the case. So CASSA has actually been very progressive throughout
(07:15):
the years and we've got a great relationship with them
as we've ventured down this path and just recently actually
KASSA was part of a five eyes development of a
harmonization strategy for what they call type certification, So how
do you certify this type of aircraft across Australia, the US, Canada,
New Zealand and Japan and the UK excuse me, And
(07:38):
so that was really that has opened up the international market.
We can now certify here in Australia with KASSA and
that journey of certification will be recognized by those other nations,
so rather than having to go there later and do
it all over again, it's opening up that international market
opportunity for US, and there is a road map in
(07:59):
place for the certification that you have to undertake. It'll
be the highest level of safety in the world, so
there'll be no drop. It'll be akin to commercial aviation
travel that the planes that you and I fly on
today to get around between cities. We will absolutely be
at that at that level, if not higher. So the
safest transport system in the world.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Okay, how much will that I mean, how much for
they cost?
Speaker 2 (08:23):
So these aircraft will be akin to aircraft you see today,
but we're definitely cheaper, so cheaper than a helicopter is
today to both purchase and to operate, as well as
other comparable sized and let's call it specified aircraft. So
we've recently had an article that the AFI did for us,
in fact, where they talked to the price that we're
(08:44):
looking at four point six million per aircraft. But when
you look at that in the scheme of what a
helicopter costs to buy today, what you can do with
that where you can go the cost of operation of
our aircraft will be far cheaper. So in fact, overall,
you know, if you average the we're about fifty percent
the cost of purchase and operation of a helicopter, but
(09:04):
just on operation alone, seventy five percent less expensive.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Will you have to take off from airports or is
it the potential to take off from businesses or even homes?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah, really good question, and that's a space that's progressing.
So the one thing that AMSL has a big advantage
in is that we're developing an aircraft today that can
integrate into our aviation ecosystem, so we can sell that
to customers, which we've already done with companies here in Australia.
When that aircraft is ready and on the market in
(09:37):
twenty thirty, they can fly that with the systems that
are in place today. What is happening in parallel, and
this is actually being led both by KASSA but also
other agencies within the government within industry, is the development
of what they call a new standard for verty ports.
So this is a next generation of what you might
consider a helly landing site would be or helicopter Notionally,
(10:02):
there's an opportunity that everyone sees that while it's great
that we can get to market today with the ecosystem airports,
helipads and the like, there is an opportunity with these
aircraft to do more and that's what the development around
the ground infrastructure with the verti ports is looking at.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
So in a sense, this is just the beginning absolutely,
So where do we have in ten years time?
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Look, I expect to see our aircraft absolutely integrated in
the transport system. Yeah, both for passenger but also for
cargo and even for some of these if I can
say these special use cases aeromedical, even defense applications and
the like. And so I would say you will absolutely
see our aircraft integrated within the transport system. And in
(10:47):
Australia that transport system aviation always already plays a massive role.
So for the regions in OZ where we don't have
highways and rail and that infrastructure in place, there are
a lot of people in regional laws that rely on
aviation to connect them with what we would consider today
in the city as essential services. And certainly we see
(11:09):
that as one of the first adopter markets within that
ten year horizon we believe will benefit the most.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
I mean next, that raises the question range, how far?
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Yeah, our aircraft will be one thousand kilometers range, and
that's one of our differentiators as well. So a lot
of the industry right now is actually looking at electric only,
so battery electric akin to our cars evs that at
the moment are only about the one hundred one hundred
and fifty kilometer range, and they're being used for what
(11:40):
they call urban air mobility, so short hop flights. You know,
if I could jumping over traffic jams looking at urban areas,
we've gone to long range from the start. So with
our first concept, we were looking at the long range
opportunity for the regions and so we see that that's
huge differentiator for us, but it also means that our
(12:03):
customers can use this aircraft more practically within the Australian context.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Adriana, thank you very much for talking to Fear and Greed.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Thank you for having me, Sean.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
That was Adriana Di Pietro, CEO of amsl Ero. This
is the Fear and Greed Business Interview. Join us every
morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed Business
News You Can News. I'm Jane elmont Enjoy your day.
Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean Almer.
A change of pace today. Amsl Ero is a company
trying to make many childhood dreams come true. Sort of
flying cars, kind of. The Sydney headquartered business company was
founded by aeronautical engineer Andrew Moore and former Google executive
Chevorn Linden in twenty seventeen, and it's aircraft known as
(00:27):
ev Toll Electric vertical takeoff and landing lifts and lands
like a helicopter, but flies like a plane. The CEO
of amsl is Adriano d Pietro, and I welcome him
to the studio. Adriana, Welcome to Fear and Greed.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Yeah, thanks to all for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
So tell me about I mean, this is kind of
child or dream stuff. And I must say we picked
this up because it's a great story in the fin
review about a fundraising that you're doing. But just give
me the history of amsl where it's come from, where
it's up to.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yeah, sure, I mean, look, the company was founded in
twenty seventeen and about that time, a little a few
years earlier, there started to be a bit of a
surge in what was being called advanced air mobility. So
this idea, like with the electrification of our cars, that
we could see a green electric future for aviation, but
also with some of the other technology that was developing
(01:22):
at the time digital systems. Everyone says AI, but a
bit of that too, that maybe these aircraft could do
something different. And that was where this vertical takeoff a
landing piece comes into the story. And all of a
sudden you start to think about aircraft that could point
to point land on a dime, do it cleanly, guilt free, quietly,
(01:43):
more safely. So we talk about, you know, things in
electric cars being simpler, same thinking with with aircraft, and
so I think it was really with what was happening
internationally around this push toward what was being called advanced
air mobility. That's Andrew and Chavonn coming out of some
work that they'd been doing, had seen an opportunity here
(02:05):
in Australia and that Journeys then progressed. So from twenty
seventeen the company was supported by some really great investors.
IP Group was one of those that came on really early,
sort of spinning the technology an idea out of University
of Sydney and looking at the opportunity to develop our
own ev tol here in Australia, leveraging great competence in
(02:29):
aeronautical and aerospace engineering that we have for many years.
You know, Bowen's largest presence outside of the US is
Fisherman's Bend in Melbourne, but also off the back of
some projects that had happened here in Sydney, the Yamaha
helicopter project which was known to some and bringing that
team together around really going hard at this race that
was happening, and I would say perhaps a bit of
(02:51):
a hype curve, certainly the upward trend at that time.
And you know, fast forward through COVID getting off the
drawing board out into ground based testing. End of twenty
twenty four, ams Aero joined one of only a few
companies in the world to flight test their prototype. And
(03:11):
so really, if you look at what's happening in this space,
you know, stuff of dreams, as you said, flying cars
sort of, we're now venturing into a space where you know,
this is real. It's there are a lot of venders
out there in this future idyllic world, but we've got
real aircraft prototypes that are flying and we are now
(03:33):
on a race for scale up in fairness, where the
opportunity is becoming certainly very real right now, and the
runway that we've got to get to market with a
commercial product.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Okay, so I've seen a picture of their vehicles. Just
explain what they're like. And I mean they literally hover
to take off and land. But then I think three
hundred kometers or something. Yeah, yeah, I mean, so explain that.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Yeah, So it's so your point of the flying car
sort of. These are still an aircraft, so people I
think relate most to when we describe them similar to
a drone. These are a large drone that can take
people and cargo five hundred kilos of payload in fact.
And what you'd see when you see our aircraft is
(04:19):
a design with multiple roaders. We have eight, four on
each side, two on each four and a half wing.
That's all about safety and redundancy, but it's also about
the lift we need to get such a large aircraft
off the ground and as you say, take off like
a helicopter, so vertically off of those roaders, and then
our aircraft uniquely tilts those roaders forward and then starts
(04:43):
to fly forward like an airplane, and we actually have
wings like an aircraft, and that's where we hit those
three hundred klometer an hour speeds. So take off like
a helicopter, fly forward like a plane, and then land
like a helicopter.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Okay, so many questions. They're electric, yes, all right? Are
they for passengers or are they for cargo?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Both? Is the short. I mean, we have a first
a few first customers that we're really focusing on aeromedical applications.
So that's absolutely for people.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
So that could be a medical person, a doctor in
there trying to get somewhere, yes, to help out.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
And their ambulance of sorts. But absolutely the opportunity that
we're seeing with digital technology, with autonomy, with drones and
what still have been there that these would be uncrude,
so no people on board, and you can imagine we
could deliver very large payloads point to point.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Okay, stay with me, Adriana, we'll be back in a minute.
I'm speaking to Adriano di Pietro, CEO of amsl Ero.
You've had test flights. How close are we to reality
(05:57):
to this actually being a thing that someone can go
and spend money on?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
So certainly out our timeline is twenty thirty for market
launch and commercial release, so in the next five years.
But what you'll see between now and then is a
series of testing programs that we will go through. So
we will be flying throughout those years on our certification.
You know, that's with CASSA here in Australia, our certification
(06:22):
pathway to get to market. So you know, we really
are closer than you think to seeing these regularly in
the skies as we do as we undertake that work.
There are others in the race, that's for sure, and
I think what you will start to see is a
surge in the activity around seeing advanced their mobility integrated
into transport systems.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Okay, so you're talking about Casasill Aviation Safety Authority. Are
they on top of the regulations on this? I mean,
are there certain rules around how high you can fly,
where you can fly, all that type of thing.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah, really good question, and I would say I think
early on there certainly was an issue where technology was
leading regulation and that certainly we've had some early developers.
Jobi in the US is one. There's Archer, a vertical
in the UK where there was a journey that they
were on where the pathway wasn't defined that's no longer
the case. So CASSA has actually been very progressive throughout
(07:15):
the years and we've got a great relationship with them
as we've ventured down this path and just recently actually
KASSA was part of a five eyes development of a
harmonization strategy for what they call type certification, So how
do you certify this type of aircraft across Australia, the US, Canada,
New Zealand and Japan and the UK excuse me, And
(07:38):
so that was really that has opened up the international market.
We can now certify here in Australia with KASSA and
that journey of certification will be recognized by those other nations,
so rather than having to go there later and do
it all over again, it's opening up that international market
opportunity for US, and there is a road map in
(07:59):
place for the certification that you have to undertake. It'll
be the highest level of safety in the world, so
there'll be no drop. It'll be akin to commercial aviation
travel that the planes that you and I fly on
today to get around between cities. We will absolutely be
at that at that level, if not higher. So the
safest transport system in the world.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Okay, how much will that I mean, how much for
they cost?
Speaker 2 (08:23):
So these aircraft will be akin to aircraft you see today,
but we're definitely cheaper, so cheaper than a helicopter is
today to both purchase and to operate, as well as
other comparable sized and let's call it specified aircraft. So
we've recently had an article that the AFI did for us,
in fact, where they talked to the price that we're
(08:44):
looking at four point six million per aircraft. But when
you look at that in the scheme of what a
helicopter costs to buy today, what you can do with
that where you can go the cost of operation of
our aircraft will be far cheaper. So in fact, overall,
you know, if you average the we're about fifty percent
the cost of purchase and operation of a helicopter, but
(09:04):
just on operation alone, seventy five percent less expensive.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Will you have to take off from airports or is
it the potential to take off from businesses or even homes?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah, really good question, and that's a space that's progressing.
So the one thing that AMSL has a big advantage
in is that we're developing an aircraft today that can
integrate into our aviation ecosystem, so we can sell that
to customers, which we've already done with companies here in Australia.
When that aircraft is ready and on the market in
(09:37):
twenty thirty, they can fly that with the systems that
are in place today. What is happening in parallel, and
this is actually being led both by KASSA but also
other agencies within the government within industry, is the development
of what they call a new standard for verty ports.
So this is a next generation of what you might
consider a helly landing site would be or helicopter Notionally,
(10:02):
there's an opportunity that everyone sees that while it's great
that we can get to market today with the ecosystem airports,
helipads and the like, there is an opportunity with these
aircraft to do more and that's what the development around
the ground infrastructure with the verti ports is looking at.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
So in a sense, this is just the beginning absolutely,
So where do we have in ten years time?
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Look, I expect to see our aircraft absolutely integrated in
the transport system. Yeah, both for passenger but also for
cargo and even for some of these if I can
say these special use cases aeromedical, even defense applications and
the like. And so I would say you will absolutely
see our aircraft integrated within the transport system. And in
(10:47):
Australia that transport system aviation always already plays a massive role.
So for the regions in OZ where we don't have
highways and rail and that infrastructure in place, there are
a lot of people in regional laws that rely on
aviation to connect them with what we would consider today
in the city as essential services. And certainly we see
(11:09):
that as one of the first adopter markets within that
ten year horizon we believe will benefit the most.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
I mean next, that raises the question range, how far?
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Yeah, our aircraft will be one thousand kilometers range, and
that's one of our differentiators as well. So a lot
of the industry right now is actually looking at electric only,
so battery electric akin to our cars evs that at
the moment are only about the one hundred one hundred
and fifty kilometer range, and they're being used for what
(11:40):
they call urban air mobility, so short hop flights. You know,
if I could jumping over traffic jams looking at urban areas,
we've gone to long range from the start. So with
our first concept, we were looking at the long range
opportunity for the regions and so we see that that's
huge differentiator for us, but it also means that our
(12:03):
customers can use this aircraft more practically within the Australian context.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Adriana, thank you very much for talking to Fear and Greed.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Thank you for having me, Sean.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
That was Adriana Di Pietro, CEO of amsl Ero. This
is the Fear and Greed Business Interview. Join us every
morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed Business
News You Can News. I'm Jane elmont Enjoy your day.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.