July 15, 2025 • 11 mins
This week we heard that the Australian Bureau of Statistics has chosen 60,000 homes to take part in a test census, to make sure the real event next year runs without incident.
For the first time, it will include questions about sexual orientation and gender for people over 16.
Hari Hara Priya Kannan, Chief Data Scientist for The Demographics Group talks to Sean Aylmer about why we do a census, and what we can expect.
Find out more: https://fearandgreed.com.au
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm sure Ailma.
This week we heard that the Australian Buwerau of Statistics
has chosen sixty thousand homes to take part in a
test census to make sure the real event next year
runs without incident. For the first time, it will include
questions about sexual orientation and gender for people over sixteen.
The Census is a nationwide count of household information. It's
(00:26):
conducted every five years. It provides a snapshot of Australies
population and to help me delve into why we do it,
what to expect from it, I welcome to the show.
Harry Harrah Pree Cannon, chief data scientist for the Demographic Group. Harry,
Welcome to Fear and Greed.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Hello Sean.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Why is the census so important?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
So? The census is kind of a big deal, especially here,
and it matters more than most people realize. Census data
decides where are schools, hospitals, eagedcare, homes, transport services go.
It affects how much funding new local areas gets and
whether you subborb gets a new childcare center or a
(01:08):
community park. All these kinds of big decisions are based
on census data. So even if you only think about
the census once every five years, it's quietly shaping the
world around us.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Okay, well, yeah, I've learned something there already. I just
didn't realize quite that is a massive impact that the
census has. Is it timely enough? I suppose it's the question.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
It is timely enough? And that's what's really special about
Australia's census. Unlike many countries that only run their censors
every ten years, like the US does it once every
ten years, we do ours every five which means we
get fresher data and can respond more quickly to social
(01:56):
and economic changes. And census is pretty inclusive. It doesn't
just count our citizens and our permanent residents, but it
also counts tourists, international students, whether you're a temporary visa holder.
Our census counts everyone, and that gives us a real
(02:17):
insight into how things are in Australia.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Okay, the Australian census. Is that typical of other censuses
around the world? Or do we tend to gather more information?
How does that all work?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
We do get a lot more information compared to other
censuses in the world. The US only has twelve questions,
but our census it has bought sixty three questions and
the test rund that we are doing right now it
is actually a change that was looked into from the
(02:55):
previous census. So what happens in between our censues is
that a committee sits down, they really go through our data.
They try to understand what can we add that's more current,
more relevant. For example, they're adding a new category as
a response to one of our questions, which is tell
(03:15):
us about how you travel to work, and they are
going to add travel by e bike as one of
the options.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Now I have never seen as a data scientist this
being done in any other country other than Australia.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
What about the issue I mean is something that has
had a bit of publicity is a question on sexual
orientation and gender. It was something that was discussed last year,
but if I'm right, the government didn't particularly want to
push the issue ahead of the election. Why is it
important that we get that sort of information.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
I think that helps us understand a lot about these
communities that are less talked about. Census not only gives
us the count of people and the age, but it
also talks about the educational backgrounds, what sort of family
setups they are and where they're living, or how they're
doing economically, and this gives us an insight into how
(04:16):
to service these cohortes better.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Broadly, I mean we've got to go to a break
in a moment. We might talk about specific things like
birth rates and international students in housing in that after
the break, but just broadly, before we go to the break,
how is Australia changing or is that too broad a
question to actually ask?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
That is too broad a question to ask, But I
think Australia is one of the leading examples worldwide on
how you can harness the data and builz smarter environments.
And I don't see this happening anywhere else in the world.
And the other thing about the Australian census is while
(04:57):
most data in other countries are not publicly easily accessible. Now,
if you want to know about your suburb, for example,
you can just go on avi's website and there is
a tool called quick Stats. You type in your suburb
and it will give you all the basic information, oh wow,
about how your suburb is doing, the income profile, what
(05:19):
sort of occupations are there, including religious affiliation, it's not
just the big companies that can benefit out of this.
I might plan to start a new ice cream joint
in my suburb and this data can be useful for me.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Fantastic. Stay with me, Harry, We'll be back in a moment.
I'm speaking to the demographic groups, Harry Harah Priat Kennan.
I want to get to some specific challenges. International students,
migration a constant, constant debate in Australia. So bad, it's.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Good, and it's not my personal opinion. Data sus it.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Yeah, No, that's what I want to know. What's the
data side.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
So when you look at our migration, I'm going to
break this down to you, or I might even ask
you a question here, what percentage of our migration do
you think is permanent in nature?
Speaker 1 (06:24):
I'd I would have a lot more tourist international students,
many many more than permanent in nature our guests.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Yeah, so the permanent is only eleven percent. So when
you say we are taking four hundred thousand people or
two hundred and fifty thousand people, we are not bringing
them all here forever. So what are all these temporary
tourists and migrants actually contributing to US as a nation.
International education is our top four service expert. It's a
(06:56):
billion dollar industry and international education also directly affects tourism.
Without international education, the Australian tourism industry would be one
third of what it is today.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Plus we have temporary workers who help us plug our
skills shortage. Our unemployment rate is set an all time loan,
so we're not essentially getting migrants to take up the
jobs of all locals, but we are rather getting migrants
to fill the gaps in our workforce. So it's a
(07:31):
completely win situation for Australia. And this is going to
be the case in every other first world top income
countries as well. And that's because globally we are aging
and most developed nations are also aging very rapidly, which
means we are going to be having fewer and fewer workers.
(07:52):
So every country will now get on the race to
get migrants so they can sustain their population growth.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Okay, so this brings us under structural aging and birth rates.
What is the Australian birth rate trendy?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
So our current birth rate is at one point eight
and it's trending downwards. It has been trending downwards for
the past three four decades. This is something that needs
a lot of structural change if it has to go up.
So the replacement level is two point two and we
(08:30):
are well below that. So we will actually see in
the late twenty forties that our natural increase starts going
into the negatives and migration is the only component that
will help Australia's population group.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Okay, the housing sector another big political issue. It was
the last election the government's National Hasing Accord wants to
build two unred and forty thousand homes a year. Where
now we need that. Do demographics tell us anything about
what we need to do with housing?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
So the whole issue about housing is, see, we have
a lot of space. That's the reality. When you compare
most Australian cities to other cities like London or San Francisco,
you compare anywhere our population density is much much lower
than that, and we also have a land area that's
(09:25):
much bigger. You can take New York for example, it
has around eight hundred people approximately per square kilometer and
the entire city is only one thousand square kilometers in size.
If you take Melbourne, it's twelve thousand kilometers square kilometers
and our population density is about four hundred and fifty
(09:47):
so we can see that we don't have a spacing issue.
What we have is a policy issue. Our population growth
and our migration policy is not really communicating with our
housing policy is the issue here, and we also need
to build more density housing, especially in areas that's having
(10:08):
a turnover of this temporary population. Like if you look
at our job hubs and university corridors, these places require
more short term rental, higher density housing compared to what
we are actually building.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Harry, tell me, do you get excited as a demographer
when there's a new sensors coming up?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
I definitely get very excited.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
It's kind of Christmas once every five years.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yes. Firstly, it's my bread and butter. The other thing
is when the last senses came out, there were new
questions around long term health conditions and mental health and everything,
and there's always new data to explore, so it's not
the same thing that's happening every five years. So there
(10:58):
are some trends that really change a lot. But then
there are these new trends that open up new avenues
for research and debate and that's really exciting.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Fantastic, Harry, thank you very much for talking to Fear
and Greed.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
That's Harry. Harah Prier Kennan, chief data scientist for the
Demographics Group. This is the Fear and Greed Business Interview.
Join us every morning for the full episode of Fear
and Greed Business News. You can use spishy Elma Enjoy
your day.
Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm sure Ailma.
This week we heard that the Australian Buwerau of Statistics
has chosen sixty thousand homes to take part in a
test census to make sure the real event next year
runs without incident. For the first time, it will include
questions about sexual orientation and gender for people over sixteen.
The Census is a nationwide count of household information. It's
(00:26):
conducted every five years. It provides a snapshot of Australies
population and to help me delve into why we do it,
what to expect from it, I welcome to the show.
Harry Harrah Pree Cannon, chief data scientist for the Demographic Group. Harry,
Welcome to Fear and Greed.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Hello Sean.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Why is the census so important?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
So? The census is kind of a big deal, especially here,
and it matters more than most people realize. Census data
decides where are schools, hospitals, eagedcare, homes, transport services go.
It affects how much funding new local areas gets and
whether you subborb gets a new childcare center or a
(01:08):
community park. All these kinds of big decisions are based
on census data. So even if you only think about
the census once every five years, it's quietly shaping the
world around us.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Okay, well, yeah, I've learned something there already. I just
didn't realize quite that is a massive impact that the
census has. Is it timely enough? I suppose it's the question.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
It is timely enough? And that's what's really special about
Australia's census. Unlike many countries that only run their censors
every ten years, like the US does it once every
ten years, we do ours every five which means we
get fresher data and can respond more quickly to social
(01:56):
and economic changes. And census is pretty inclusive. It doesn't
just count our citizens and our permanent residents, but it
also counts tourists, international students, whether you're a temporary visa holder.
Our census counts everyone, and that gives us a real
(02:17):
insight into how things are in Australia.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Okay, the Australian census. Is that typical of other censuses
around the world? Or do we tend to gather more information?
How does that all work?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
We do get a lot more information compared to other
censuses in the world. The US only has twelve questions,
but our census it has bought sixty three questions and
the test rund that we are doing right now it
is actually a change that was looked into from the
(02:55):
previous census. So what happens in between our censues is
that a committee sits down, they really go through our data.
They try to understand what can we add that's more current,
more relevant. For example, they're adding a new category as
a response to one of our questions, which is tell
(03:15):
us about how you travel to work, and they are
going to add travel by e bike as one of
the options.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Now I have never seen as a data scientist this
being done in any other country other than Australia.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
What about the issue I mean is something that has
had a bit of publicity is a question on sexual
orientation and gender. It was something that was discussed last year,
but if I'm right, the government didn't particularly want to
push the issue ahead of the election. Why is it
important that we get that sort of information.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
I think that helps us understand a lot about these
communities that are less talked about. Census not only gives
us the count of people and the age, but it
also talks about the educational backgrounds, what sort of family
setups they are and where they're living, or how they're
doing economically, and this gives us an insight into how
(04:16):
to service these cohortes better.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Broadly, I mean we've got to go to a break
in a moment. We might talk about specific things like
birth rates and international students in housing in that after
the break, but just broadly, before we go to the break,
how is Australia changing or is that too broad a
question to actually ask?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
That is too broad a question to ask, But I
think Australia is one of the leading examples worldwide on
how you can harness the data and builz smarter environments.
And I don't see this happening anywhere else in the world.
And the other thing about the Australian census is while
(04:57):
most data in other countries are not publicly easily accessible. Now,
if you want to know about your suburb, for example,
you can just go on avi's website and there is
a tool called quick Stats. You type in your suburb
and it will give you all the basic information, oh wow,
about how your suburb is doing, the income profile, what
(05:19):
sort of occupations are there, including religious affiliation, it's not
just the big companies that can benefit out of this.
I might plan to start a new ice cream joint
in my suburb and this data can be useful for me.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Fantastic. Stay with me, Harry, We'll be back in a moment.
I'm speaking to the demographic groups, Harry Harah Priat Kennan.
I want to get to some specific challenges. International students,
migration a constant, constant debate in Australia. So bad, it's.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Good, and it's not my personal opinion. Data sus it.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Yeah, No, that's what I want to know. What's the
data side.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
So when you look at our migration, I'm going to
break this down to you, or I might even ask
you a question here, what percentage of our migration do
you think is permanent in nature?
Speaker 1 (06:24):
I'd I would have a lot more tourist international students,
many many more than permanent in nature our guests.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Yeah, so the permanent is only eleven percent. So when
you say we are taking four hundred thousand people or
two hundred and fifty thousand people, we are not bringing
them all here forever. So what are all these temporary
tourists and migrants actually contributing to US as a nation.
International education is our top four service expert. It's a
(06:56):
billion dollar industry and international education also directly affects tourism.
Without international education, the Australian tourism industry would be one
third of what it is today.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Plus we have temporary workers who help us plug our
skills shortage. Our unemployment rate is set an all time loan,
so we're not essentially getting migrants to take up the
jobs of all locals, but we are rather getting migrants
to fill the gaps in our workforce. So it's a
(07:31):
completely win situation for Australia. And this is going to
be the case in every other first world top income
countries as well. And that's because globally we are aging
and most developed nations are also aging very rapidly, which
means we are going to be having fewer and fewer workers.
(07:52):
So every country will now get on the race to
get migrants so they can sustain their population growth.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Okay, so this brings us under structural aging and birth rates.
What is the Australian birth rate trendy?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
So our current birth rate is at one point eight
and it's trending downwards. It has been trending downwards for
the past three four decades. This is something that needs
a lot of structural change if it has to go up.
So the replacement level is two point two and we
(08:30):
are well below that. So we will actually see in
the late twenty forties that our natural increase starts going
into the negatives and migration is the only component that
will help Australia's population group.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Okay, the housing sector another big political issue. It was
the last election the government's National Hasing Accord wants to
build two unred and forty thousand homes a year. Where
now we need that. Do demographics tell us anything about
what we need to do with housing?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
So the whole issue about housing is, see, we have
a lot of space. That's the reality. When you compare
most Australian cities to other cities like London or San Francisco,
you compare anywhere our population density is much much lower
than that, and we also have a land area that's
(09:25):
much bigger. You can take New York for example, it
has around eight hundred people approximately per square kilometer and
the entire city is only one thousand square kilometers in size.
If you take Melbourne, it's twelve thousand kilometers square kilometers
and our population density is about four hundred and fifty
(09:47):
so we can see that we don't have a spacing issue.
What we have is a policy issue. Our population growth
and our migration policy is not really communicating with our
housing policy is the issue here, and we also need
to build more density housing, especially in areas that's having
(10:08):
a turnover of this temporary population. Like if you look
at our job hubs and university corridors, these places require
more short term rental, higher density housing compared to what
we are actually building.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Harry, tell me, do you get excited as a demographer
when there's a new sensors coming up?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
I definitely get very excited.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
It's kind of Christmas once every five years.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yes. Firstly, it's my bread and butter. The other thing
is when the last senses came out, there were new
questions around long term health conditions and mental health and everything,
and there's always new data to explore, so it's not
the same thing that's happening every five years. So there
(10:58):
are some trends that really change a lot. But then
there are these new trends that open up new avenues
for research and debate and that's really exciting.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Fantastic, Harry, thank you very much for talking to Fear
and Greed.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
That's Harry. Harah Prier Kennan, chief data scientist for the
Demographics Group. This is the Fear and Greed Business Interview.
Join us every morning for the full episode of Fear
and Greed Business News. You can use spishy Elma Enjoy
your day.
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