November 29, 2025 • 9 mins
Sean, Adam and Michael started Fear & Greed five and a half years ago, and have learnt a lot along the way. Today, they reflect on what's worked, what hasn't, and what they would do differently.
Fear & Greed Q+A: Join Sean Aylmer, Michael Thompson and Adam Lang as they answer questions on business, investing, economics, politics and more. If you have your own question, get in touch via our website, LinkedIn, Instagram or Facebook.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Fear and Greed Q and A where we
ask and answer questions about business, investing, economics, politics, and more.
Are Michael Thompson and good morning, Sean Ale. Michael, Good
morning to you. Adam Lange.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hello Michael, Hello, Sean, Hello Adam.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Now today we are going to talk about small business,
and in particular we are talking firsthand experience of small business.
What we have learnt across the last five and a half.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Years, getting close to six years at Fear and Greed.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
There we go, I have to have a sizable party
when we hit six years. It's not really a milestone,
is it, But any excuse for a party. What we've learned,
what's worked, what hasn't kind of because this is the
situation that so many people find themselves in running a
small business, and you learn a lot of things along
the way as you go. Do you have a particular
(00:52):
thing that stands out? Because I'll start one if you want, Yeah,
because I'm always willing to talk. The thing is that
as we have gone across the time, that we have
tried a lot of various things along the way, and
not all of them have worked, and some have worked
really really well in terms of building different podcasts and
(01:13):
different offerings and things, and it is not being afraid
to experiment and knowing that nothing is kind of irreparable.
That if you need to try something, if it doesn't work,
fail and fail fast and move on to something else. Actually,
just keep on trying things, because what does that thing about?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Don't let perfect of good?
Speaker 1 (01:33):
That's the one. There you go, And to me, that's
actually something that has taken a while for me to understand.
I finally got there five and a half years.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Well done, did you learn?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Ad gosh that there's a real tension. And I hope
that between the three of us, well, I hope that
it stays a healthy tension in the sense of managing
the need to generate cash and keep a good idea going,
which I think is probably most businesses, right. But you
(02:08):
know that tension is something that you do not when
you own the business. You don't suspend at any time. Really, yes,
there are weekends, but that idea, that puzzle in your
head never stops. That's a really interesting thing. And I
like to yes sometimes you know, well I'm thinking too
much about this. Keeping it into a healthy tension range
(02:29):
is a real challenge.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Do you think a lot of people go into a
business not realizing that chances are it might be easier
just working in a day job kind of thing. That
you are you are taking on a twenty four to
seven thing here, that your working hours are not just
going to be nine to five when the shop's open
or something that it is going to be all the
time and it is always just going to live there
(02:52):
rent free.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
In your head, I certainly do also considering that alongside
other business, for example being a restauranteur or putting on
a theatrical production or running a retail store. Yeah, we've
also got the advantage of sometimes when we had to
it was COVID work remotely. Some just don't have that option.
Some businesses don't have that option. So you bet, I
(03:14):
think that that is such a key factor.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
What about you, Sean.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
The thing that I've needed most is belief. So in
the first eighteen months, we didn't pay ourselves here and
Green and You had to do It's all we had, Yeah,
and so we had to believe that we're going to
grow to the audience, that we're going to succeed. Now
as we've gone on and we started paying ourselves even
during that process. At times you think are we doing like,
do I believe in what we're doing? And I totally
(03:40):
believe in what we're doing. I think that's a public
good and what we do it's not a financial thing.
So I mean, hopefully at some point in the future
finances will come. But you have to have a genuine
belief that what you're doing is a good thing to do.
And there are times where you just think, oh my gosh,
it's four o'clock, it's a Monday morning. Hide, I've got
(04:01):
to get out of bed.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah, you've got to believe. Yeah, it is a form
of faith, right, I mean, belief is probably the right word,
but it almost becomes something you've got to feel.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
It is a viable business though, just to just to
clear up anything.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
It wasn't for the first aid, but now.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Saying we pay ourselves, but we pay ourselves modestly for
the skills that we.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Have, well, I think I'm over that's all right.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Another one for me is within your business, know your
limitations as well, and then don't be afraid to call
on partners as well, so to to to have a
good accountant, to use good software, and shout out to
our friends at zero and knowing kind of what you
know and what you don't know and what you can learn,
(04:50):
and even then there's going to be a limit and
you are going to need expert help.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Right, oh very much. So in that same theme, you've
got to know your limits, right, but how how do
you know them until you've gone.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
To So Adam, this is a great like my thing
was have a crack And then it reminds me of
Adam putting together our website. Yes, this was in that
very first problem and we had no money. Adam said,
I'll put together the website. So now we god, could
it be we not go onto the website to see what?
And the website was a big fato of Adam's face
(05:23):
and that was it.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
It was the benevolent dictator of fear and great. Actually,
to be fair, he did go. He did also get
a link to work. That link was bizarrely taking bookings
for yoga sessions. We were not a yoga business. We're
a podcast.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
So the point there, though, is having you go. And
I think when you were running a business and you
don't know what you're doing, and let's face it, had
there are cer core skills like as a journalist I
have now as a manager, Adam has those, Michael as
a producer slash host slash journalist has those, right, and
we've all stuck to our swimmines pretty well. Yes, right,
(06:01):
And I think that's really important that you know what
you're good at and what you're not good at, but
then occasionally you feel you need to go outside those
swim lanes and just having a go. I think that's
very cool thing to do.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Yeah, and finding and in my case, completely going past
those limits.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
I disagree though, and I admire the fact that you
did it, you kept doing it right.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yeah. Communication, yes, really important, fine of love, talk to
my mother, well done, well done. But I mean that
this is the thing that you can get so focused
on tasks, trying to do the tasks and the day
to day that the communication, particularly when you're in partnership
with other people, just to maintain that contact.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Being here in the Novice studios as we are now,
what an advantage that has been, you know, being able
to because at times we had to work remotely there
was no choice through COVID and so on, and then
we had the option of doing it differently.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Okay, we are out of time. One question if you
could change anything, if you could do anything differently, what
would you do differently.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
I'm going to be.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Putting your hand up on the website earlier before the
big picture went up.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I reckon yes, But in general I've always wondered about this,
and we you know, as Sean mentioned, we worked for
nothing for the first eighty months on faith, on belief
before we could earn anything. And I do wonder whether
you know if there is an option. And this is
probably more for other times to try different things than
other people. But if you can work out how to
(07:38):
fund as a side hustle or an investor, that is
probably going to be a lot lower burden on your
anxieties and just the pressure you feel to run the business.
So that's one.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
So mine is what I would do again, rather than
what I wouldn't do. What I would do is not
know what the future held. If I knew how much
hard work and relentless this is going to be, you
wouldn't try it. But that's just the truth. You know,
you'd go and get a highly paid job, yep. But
the reward for doing it yourself is far, far greater.
(08:12):
So I would say it's good that you don't know
where you're going.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Do you know? Most founders say exactly that, is that right?
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (08:21):
I remember when I worked for Chris Murphy managed in
Excess Right, and they were selling ten million copies of
Kick Right. I said, how did you do it? I
just in the interview, So if I'd known how hard
it would be, I wouldn't have done it. Yeah, And
I'm looking at him from across the table in the
office that he owned one of one of the biggest
bands in the world, going, you're kidding, you know. I
(08:42):
just couldn't fathom that statement.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that's a pretty good place
to leave it. Thank you very much, Adam, Thank you, Michael,
and thank you Sean Michael.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Thank you Adam.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
If you've got a question that you'd like us to tackle,
send it through on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, or at Fear
and Greed dot com todau. I'm Michael Thompson and it's
a fear and Greed pure and a
Welcome to Fear and Greed Q and A where we
ask and answer questions about business, investing, economics, politics, and more.
Are Michael Thompson and good morning, Sean Ale. Michael, Good
morning to you. Adam Lange.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hello Michael, Hello, Sean, Hello Adam.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Now today we are going to talk about small business,
and in particular we are talking firsthand experience of small business.
What we have learnt across the last five and a half.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Years, getting close to six years at Fear and Greed.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
There we go, I have to have a sizable party
when we hit six years. It's not really a milestone,
is it, But any excuse for a party. What we've learned,
what's worked, what hasn't kind of because this is the
situation that so many people find themselves in running a
small business, and you learn a lot of things along
the way as you go. Do you have a particular
(00:52):
thing that stands out? Because I'll start one if you want, Yeah,
because I'm always willing to talk. The thing is that
as we have gone across the time, that we have
tried a lot of various things along the way, and
not all of them have worked, and some have worked
really really well in terms of building different podcasts and
(01:13):
different offerings and things, and it is not being afraid
to experiment and knowing that nothing is kind of irreparable.
That if you need to try something, if it doesn't work,
fail and fail fast and move on to something else. Actually,
just keep on trying things, because what does that thing about?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Don't let perfect of good?
Speaker 1 (01:33):
That's the one. There you go, And to me, that's
actually something that has taken a while for me to understand.
I finally got there five and a half years.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Well done, did you learn?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Ad gosh that there's a real tension. And I hope
that between the three of us, well, I hope that
it stays a healthy tension in the sense of managing
the need to generate cash and keep a good idea going,
which I think is probably most businesses, right. But you
(02:08):
know that tension is something that you do not when
you own the business. You don't suspend at any time. Really, yes,
there are weekends, but that idea, that puzzle in your
head never stops. That's a really interesting thing. And I
like to yes sometimes you know, well I'm thinking too
much about this. Keeping it into a healthy tension range
(02:29):
is a real challenge.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Do you think a lot of people go into a
business not realizing that chances are it might be easier
just working in a day job kind of thing. That
you are you are taking on a twenty four to
seven thing here, that your working hours are not just
going to be nine to five when the shop's open
or something that it is going to be all the
time and it is always just going to live there
(02:52):
rent free.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
In your head, I certainly do also considering that alongside
other business, for example being a restauranteur or putting on
a theatrical production or running a retail store. Yeah, we've
also got the advantage of sometimes when we had to
it was COVID work remotely. Some just don't have that option.
Some businesses don't have that option. So you bet, I
(03:14):
think that that is such a key factor.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
What about you, Sean.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
The thing that I've needed most is belief. So in
the first eighteen months, we didn't pay ourselves here and
Green and You had to do It's all we had, Yeah,
and so we had to believe that we're going to
grow to the audience, that we're going to succeed. Now
as we've gone on and we started paying ourselves even
during that process. At times you think are we doing like,
do I believe in what we're doing? And I totally
(03:40):
believe in what we're doing. I think that's a public
good and what we do it's not a financial thing.
So I mean, hopefully at some point in the future
finances will come. But you have to have a genuine
belief that what you're doing is a good thing to do.
And there are times where you just think, oh my gosh,
it's four o'clock, it's a Monday morning. Hide, I've got
(04:01):
to get out of bed.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah, you've got to believe. Yeah, it is a form
of faith, right, I mean, belief is probably the right word,
but it almost becomes something you've got to feel.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
It is a viable business though, just to just to
clear up anything.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
It wasn't for the first aid, but now.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Saying we pay ourselves, but we pay ourselves modestly for
the skills that we.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Have, well, I think I'm over that's all right.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Another one for me is within your business, know your
limitations as well, and then don't be afraid to call
on partners as well, so to to to have a
good accountant, to use good software, and shout out to
our friends at zero and knowing kind of what you
know and what you don't know and what you can learn,
(04:50):
and even then there's going to be a limit and
you are going to need expert help.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Right, oh very much. So in that same theme, you've
got to know your limits, right, but how how do
you know them until you've gone.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
To So Adam, this is a great like my thing
was have a crack And then it reminds me of
Adam putting together our website. Yes, this was in that
very first problem and we had no money. Adam said,
I'll put together the website. So now we god, could
it be we not go onto the website to see what?
And the website was a big fato of Adam's face
(05:23):
and that was it.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
It was the benevolent dictator of fear and great. Actually,
to be fair, he did go. He did also get
a link to work. That link was bizarrely taking bookings
for yoga sessions. We were not a yoga business. We're
a podcast.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
So the point there, though, is having you go. And
I think when you were running a business and you
don't know what you're doing, and let's face it, had
there are cer core skills like as a journalist I
have now as a manager, Adam has those, Michael as
a producer slash host slash journalist has those, right, and
we've all stuck to our swimmines pretty well. Yes, right,
(06:01):
And I think that's really important that you know what
you're good at and what you're not good at, but
then occasionally you feel you need to go outside those
swim lanes and just having a go. I think that's
very cool thing to do.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Yeah, and finding and in my case, completely going past
those limits.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
I disagree though, and I admire the fact that you
did it, you kept doing it right.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yeah. Communication, yes, really important, fine of love, talk to
my mother, well done, well done. But I mean that
this is the thing that you can get so focused
on tasks, trying to do the tasks and the day
to day that the communication, particularly when you're in partnership
with other people, just to maintain that contact.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Being here in the Novice studios as we are now,
what an advantage that has been, you know, being able
to because at times we had to work remotely there
was no choice through COVID and so on, and then
we had the option of doing it differently.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Okay, we are out of time. One question if you
could change anything, if you could do anything differently, what
would you do differently.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
I'm going to be.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Putting your hand up on the website earlier before the
big picture went up.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I reckon yes, But in general I've always wondered about this,
and we you know, as Sean mentioned, we worked for
nothing for the first eighty months on faith, on belief
before we could earn anything. And I do wonder whether
you know if there is an option. And this is
probably more for other times to try different things than
other people. But if you can work out how to
(07:38):
fund as a side hustle or an investor, that is
probably going to be a lot lower burden on your
anxieties and just the pressure you feel to run the business.
So that's one.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
So mine is what I would do again, rather than
what I wouldn't do. What I would do is not
know what the future held. If I knew how much
hard work and relentless this is going to be, you
wouldn't try it. But that's just the truth. You know,
you'd go and get a highly paid job, yep. But
the reward for doing it yourself is far, far greater.
(08:12):
So I would say it's good that you don't know
where you're going.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Do you know? Most founders say exactly that, is that right?
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (08:21):
I remember when I worked for Chris Murphy managed in
Excess Right, and they were selling ten million copies of
Kick Right. I said, how did you do it? I
just in the interview, So if I'd known how hard
it would be, I wouldn't have done it. Yeah, And
I'm looking at him from across the table in the
office that he owned one of one of the biggest
bands in the world, going, you're kidding, you know. I
(08:42):
just couldn't fathom that statement.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that's a pretty good place
to leave it. Thank you very much, Adam, Thank you, Michael,
and thank you Sean Michael.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Thank you Adam.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
If you've got a question that you'd like us to tackle,
send it through on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, or at Fear
and Greed dot com todau. I'm Michael Thompson and it's
a fear and Greed pure and a
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