December 13, 2025 • 9 mins
A drop in the national participation rate sparks a very personal discussion: what does participation look like in real life? Sean, Michael and Adam talk honestly about the times they’ve loved work the most, why being busy might actually make us happier, and the unexpected rituals that keep them sane.
Fear & Greed Q+A: Join Sean Aylmer, Michael Thompson and Adam Lang as they answer questions on business, investing, economics, politics and more. If you have your own question, get in touch via our website, LinkedIn, Instagram or Facebook.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Fear and Greek Q and A, where we
ask and answer questions about business, investing, economics, politics and
all sorts of things. I'm Sean Alma and good morning.
Michael Thompson, Good morning Sean, and good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Adam Lang, Good morning Sean.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Today during the week we got the labor force statistics
from the Australian Bureau Statistics and we found out that
the participation rate had dropped. Now Australia has had a
very high participation rate over the more recent times, it
has come back a bit. That's why we ended up
losing a lot of jobs, yet the unemployment rates stayed
(00:40):
at four point three percent. So today we are going
to discuss sort of when were you happiest at work
and what was your participation in work when you were
happiest at work.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
M Okay that's.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
What I'm laying.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Yeah, yeah, cool one.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
So when were you happiest at work? And look, we
don't want the long detailed explanation.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
So I reckon and look, part of this is reflective
because one of my sons is eighteen and in getting
into his first job post school, right, and it's very
reminiscent of my time, you know, UNI working. I reckon
when I was studying and working, so working full time student,
part time ish almost full time working. I loved that.
(01:31):
That was kind of my ideal participation rate. But I
did have some really big advantages, right I was living
at home and UNI was or not quite costless, but
it was so low in terms of the hex stat
I accumulated when I went through it, So I had
this freedom of not having to worry about rent, and
so my participation rate kind of floated on this economic
(01:54):
support of my parents. But it was just wonderful learning
and working at the same sort of levels. That was
my ideal, I reckon.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Michael Thompson, Oh see, MND slightly different in that I
would say the last kind of five and a half
six years of working on Fear and Greed has probably
been my most enjoyable working period. And the hours have
been long. We've all put in a lot of time.
But there's a there was a there's a difference when
(02:24):
you are working to build something for yourself right as
well when you're and so, and there is a fluctuation
that some weeks are bigger than others during that period.
But the fact that you are doing something to build
a business that you own part of and that you
believe in the direction that you are heading in that
(02:47):
you're willing to do kind of whatever it takes. So
it's kind of it kind of changes it like if
you're doing the same number of hours working for someone else,
there would be you would be perhaps a lot more
dissatisfied doing those same number of hours in a business
that you actually own part of. Suddenly the satisfaction and
the willingness to do it goes through the roof, right,
(03:07):
And so yeah, it's kind of that balance over the
last five years. Also, it helps that I've got kind
of young kids and we have been able to do
a lot of this remotely, which means then that been
able to see a lot more of the kids than
I had previously, which is also very important.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Have your participation in Fear and Greed the number of
hours you spend on it, because you've also written books
in the time, You've been very done all sorts of things,
and we've all done other things apart from Fear and Greed.
I'm sure when you were running content at Macquarie Media,
you would put more hours into that job, purely that
(03:48):
job than inter fear and greed. I'm not arguing against you,
but it's like in terms of participation.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Yeah, yeah, Look, and those were long, consistent days in
that you would leave home, leave him about six thirty
in the morning, and get home after seven at night,
and so they were long days. These do feel probably
shorter hours, so there is probably a slightly I mean overall,
if you were to tally up the hours, there would
(04:14):
be fewer hours involved in this. I think you are
probably right, but also it's kind of you when you've
got multiple things going on. I'm writing books and stuff.
You can do it whenever you want, right, so I
will do that on the weekend or early in the
morning or late at night. It kind of suits yourself,
and so it is building it to suit your own life.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
So the next question then for both of you, and
like you two have got totally opposite into the spectrum
in terms of when you're best enjoyed it. And I'm
much more on mind beside, like I've been incredibly busy
the last five years, but my own bus all that
sort of stuff. Is it when you're busiest that you're happiest,
And I mean everyone says I'm so busy at work.
(04:56):
But if I'm not busy, I'm bored it just in
being really frank about it, all these people saying, oh,
I hate being so busy, I think that's crap. I
actually think most people like being busy.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Completely agree, like, I am with you on that one.
And I think the best example for me is when
I finish writing a book, I stop for about a
day or two afterwards, I go, oh my god, I
can't believe that's finally done, because it's so much work
to get there. And after about a day and a half,
I'm like, I need to start another one. I need
(05:33):
to start another one because I am just I'm not
not necessarily bored, but just at a loose end and
need to get back into something that is really really productive.
And so I think it is both being busy, but
being productive really matters, I think for me.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
So I look totally agree, and it's, you know, one
of the great things. There's so little time to waste.
The older I get, the more that is more acutely
I feel that. But I was just thinking about, Okay,
so when was I at my most productive, and so
when I was serving beers over a bar, you know,
the productivity measure. I don't know how productive that was
(06:12):
you're drinking it. I was on the right side. I
was getting paid for it, but you know, probably not
great contribution to productivity of society studying, probably not. But
oh god, I think the older I'm getting, I think,
and I hope, the more productive I'm being. And I'm
really happy now, Like it's but to agree with you both.
(06:34):
If I'm not busy, I'm restless. So I know when
I'm in sort of most flow states, it's either exercising
and just drifting away or working hard and time just
flies by, and you know, I look up and goes, God,
do you.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Have a go to? So in your cream there are
times that you're very happy, and there are times you
think what am I doing? And even feary breed. Over
the last five and a half years, this has been
my most fun work time, without a doubt. But there
are times I'm like, oh my god, I've got to
do this again today. I just what time is it?
H four am? No, I can't. So you know there's
(07:11):
ups and that do you have a go to? And Adam,
you just mentioned yours that to get you through those moments?
So I mean my definitely is exercise. So if I
actually find the world getting a bit too big for
me and I haven't got time for anything, I actually
start exercising more because it's makes me feel good about myself.
(07:34):
And even if you are really busy, you're feeling better
about yourself. But you know, maybe it's the other thing
I tend to do. I know I'm relaxing when I'm
reading books, not for work, just books. So if I
find myself lying on the couch reading a book, I think,
oh wow, this is relaxation for me at its finest.
Do you guys have similar things? Look?
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Yeah, absolutely, reading is that. And if I make sure
I have a book on go, whether it's an audiobook
or a physical book, so that you have something to
go to that has nothing to do with what we're
talking about every other every other minute of the day.
But also for me, it is the one thing that
(08:15):
I love to do is to walk the kids to
school in the morning, and that for me instead of
kind of getting out and exercising or going for a
run or going to the gym or something. That for
me is that like it's twenty minutes in the morning
and that is my reset. Basically, each day. Getting to
do that is really really important, Adam.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
If I get to holiday, you know that moment because
usually there's like all of us so busy, but getting
to that point where you've organized some time off and
being on holiday, so I love that. That is that's special.
That means I've done as much as I can to
earn that time with my family. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
That's have we Has this discussion this morning contributed anything
to society, I'm not so sure, but it's kind of
been a cathartic for us.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Screw therapy loosely around participation rate, very very loosely.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Thank you very much, Michael, Thank you, Sean, thank you, Adam,
thank you, Sean, thank you Michael. If you've got a
question you'd like us to tackle, send it through on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook,
or at Fearing Greed dot com. Today you I'm Sean
Aylmer and this is Fear and Greed. You and Da
Welcome to Fear and Greek Q and A, where we
ask and answer questions about business, investing, economics, politics and
all sorts of things. I'm Sean Alma and good morning.
Michael Thompson, Good morning Sean, and good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Adam Lang, Good morning Sean.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Today during the week we got the labor force statistics
from the Australian Bureau Statistics and we found out that
the participation rate had dropped. Now Australia has had a
very high participation rate over the more recent times, it
has come back a bit. That's why we ended up
losing a lot of jobs, yet the unemployment rates stayed
(00:40):
at four point three percent. So today we are going
to discuss sort of when were you happiest at work
and what was your participation in work when you were
happiest at work.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
M Okay that's.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
What I'm laying.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Yeah, yeah, cool one.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
So when were you happiest at work? And look, we
don't want the long detailed explanation.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
So I reckon and look, part of this is reflective
because one of my sons is eighteen and in getting
into his first job post school, right, and it's very
reminiscent of my time, you know, UNI working. I reckon
when I was studying and working, so working full time student,
part time ish almost full time working. I loved that.
(01:31):
That was kind of my ideal participation rate. But I
did have some really big advantages, right I was living
at home and UNI was or not quite costless, but
it was so low in terms of the hex stat
I accumulated when I went through it, So I had
this freedom of not having to worry about rent, and
so my participation rate kind of floated on this economic
(01:54):
support of my parents. But it was just wonderful learning
and working at the same sort of levels. That was
my ideal, I reckon.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Michael Thompson, Oh see, MND slightly different in that I
would say the last kind of five and a half
six years of working on Fear and Greed has probably
been my most enjoyable working period. And the hours have
been long. We've all put in a lot of time.
But there's a there was a there's a difference when
(02:24):
you are working to build something for yourself right as
well when you're and so, and there is a fluctuation
that some weeks are bigger than others during that period.
But the fact that you are doing something to build
a business that you own part of and that you
believe in the direction that you are heading in that
(02:47):
you're willing to do kind of whatever it takes. So
it's kind of it kind of changes it like if
you're doing the same number of hours working for someone else,
there would be you would be perhaps a lot more
dissatisfied doing those same number of hours in a business
that you actually own part of. Suddenly the satisfaction and
the willingness to do it goes through the roof, right,
(03:07):
And so yeah, it's kind of that balance over the
last five years. Also, it helps that I've got kind
of young kids and we have been able to do
a lot of this remotely, which means then that been
able to see a lot more of the kids than
I had previously, which is also very important.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Have your participation in Fear and Greed the number of
hours you spend on it, because you've also written books
in the time, You've been very done all sorts of things,
and we've all done other things apart from Fear and Greed.
I'm sure when you were running content at Macquarie Media,
you would put more hours into that job, purely that
(03:48):
job than inter fear and greed. I'm not arguing against you,
but it's like in terms of participation.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Yeah, yeah, Look, and those were long, consistent days in
that you would leave home, leave him about six thirty
in the morning, and get home after seven at night,
and so they were long days. These do feel probably
shorter hours, so there is probably a slightly I mean overall,
if you were to tally up the hours, there would
(04:14):
be fewer hours involved in this. I think you are
probably right, but also it's kind of you when you've
got multiple things going on. I'm writing books and stuff.
You can do it whenever you want, right, so I
will do that on the weekend or early in the
morning or late at night. It kind of suits yourself,
and so it is building it to suit your own life.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
So the next question then for both of you, and
like you two have got totally opposite into the spectrum
in terms of when you're best enjoyed it. And I'm
much more on mind beside, like I've been incredibly busy
the last five years, but my own bus all that
sort of stuff. Is it when you're busiest that you're happiest,
And I mean everyone says I'm so busy at work.
(04:56):
But if I'm not busy, I'm bored it just in
being really frank about it, all these people saying, oh,
I hate being so busy, I think that's crap. I
actually think most people like being busy.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Completely agree, like, I am with you on that one.
And I think the best example for me is when
I finish writing a book, I stop for about a
day or two afterwards, I go, oh my god, I
can't believe that's finally done, because it's so much work
to get there. And after about a day and a half,
I'm like, I need to start another one. I need
(05:33):
to start another one because I am just I'm not
not necessarily bored, but just at a loose end and
need to get back into something that is really really productive.
And so I think it is both being busy, but
being productive really matters, I think for me.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
So I look totally agree, and it's, you know, one
of the great things. There's so little time to waste.
The older I get, the more that is more acutely
I feel that. But I was just thinking about, Okay,
so when was I at my most productive, and so
when I was serving beers over a bar, you know,
the productivity measure. I don't know how productive that was
(06:12):
you're drinking it. I was on the right side. I
was getting paid for it, but you know, probably not
great contribution to productivity of society studying, probably not. But
oh god, I think the older I'm getting, I think,
and I hope, the more productive I'm being. And I'm
really happy now, Like it's but to agree with you both.
(06:34):
If I'm not busy, I'm restless. So I know when
I'm in sort of most flow states, it's either exercising
and just drifting away or working hard and time just
flies by, and you know, I look up and goes, God,
do you.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Have a go to? So in your cream there are
times that you're very happy, and there are times you
think what am I doing? And even feary breed. Over
the last five and a half years, this has been
my most fun work time, without a doubt. But there
are times I'm like, oh my god, I've got to
do this again today. I just what time is it?
H four am? No, I can't. So you know there's
(07:11):
ups and that do you have a go to? And Adam,
you just mentioned yours that to get you through those moments?
So I mean my definitely is exercise. So if I
actually find the world getting a bit too big for
me and I haven't got time for anything, I actually
start exercising more because it's makes me feel good about myself.
(07:34):
And even if you are really busy, you're feeling better
about yourself. But you know, maybe it's the other thing
I tend to do. I know I'm relaxing when I'm
reading books, not for work, just books. So if I
find myself lying on the couch reading a book, I think,
oh wow, this is relaxation for me at its finest.
Do you guys have similar things? Look?
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Yeah, absolutely, reading is that. And if I make sure
I have a book on go, whether it's an audiobook
or a physical book, so that you have something to
go to that has nothing to do with what we're
talking about every other every other minute of the day.
But also for me, it is the one thing that
(08:15):
I love to do is to walk the kids to
school in the morning, and that for me instead of
kind of getting out and exercising or going for a
run or going to the gym or something. That for
me is that like it's twenty minutes in the morning
and that is my reset. Basically, each day. Getting to
do that is really really important, Adam.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
If I get to holiday, you know that moment because
usually there's like all of us so busy, but getting
to that point where you've organized some time off and
being on holiday, so I love that. That is that's special.
That means I've done as much as I can to
earn that time with my family. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
That's have we Has this discussion this morning contributed anything
to society, I'm not so sure, but it's kind of
been a cathartic for us.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Screw therapy loosely around participation rate, very very loosely.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Thank you very much, Michael, Thank you, Sean, thank you, Adam,
thank you, Sean, thank you Michael. If you've got a
question you'd like us to tackle, send it through on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook,
or at Fearing Greed dot com. Today you I'm Sean
Aylmer and this is Fear and Greed. You and Da
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