September 27, 2025 • 9 mins
The latest Roy Morgan Trust Survey has Bunnings at the top of the most-trusted list. But once again, Woolworths and Coles are our most distrusted companies. How do the supermarket giants regain our trust?
Michael Thompson, Sean Aylmer and Adam Lang discuss our most trusted and distrusted brands, and why trust is so important to a company.
Fear & Greed Q+A: Join the team as they answer questions on business, investing, economics, politics and more. If you have your own question, get in touch via our website, LinkedIn, Instagram or Facebook!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Michael Thompson (00:06):
Welcome to Fear and Greed Q and A, where we
ask and answer questions about business, investing, economics, politics and more.
I'm Michael Thompson, and good morning, Sean Aylmer.
Sean Aylmer (00:14):
Good morning. Michael.
Michael Thompson (00:16):
Good morning to you, Adam Lang.
Adam Lang (00:18):
Hello Michael, and hello again, Sean.
Sean Aylmer (00:20):
Hello, Adam.
Michael Thompson (00:22):
Today it is all about trust. We touched on this yesterday
in The Weekend Edition and I thought it was worthy
of another conversation because it's a big issue. This week
we saw the most trusted and most distrusted brands announced
by Roy Morgan. Every year they do this survey and
I think the findings are fantastic. Right, just for context,
(00:45):
the most trusted brands Bunnings, Aldi, Kmart, Apple, Toyota, Big W,
Commonwealth Bank, Myer, hmmm, Australia Post and JB HiFi. The
other end of the scale, the most distrusted brands at Woollies, Coles, Meta, Facebook, Optus, Qantas, Temu, Telstra, Tesla,
(01:08):
X formerly Twitter, and News Corp. I find it there's
there's so many extraordinary things in here, but I'm going
to ask you first, Adam, starting with the most trusted,
how hard is it to actually build trust as a company?
And you just take it away. Sean and I are
going to turn our mic's off and go and have
a cup of tea.
Adam Lang (01:28):
I think it's extremely hard. I mean, it starts with
having a very clear and distinct brand, and then you've
got to prove it every single time you interact with
a customer. So, I think it's the compounding story of many,
many interactions with customers, and I think that's probably what
makes Bunnings so impressive.
Michael Thompson (01:46):
Yeah, yeah, what did you think, Sean? I mean, you're
a Bunning's user, You're an Aldi user. Is there a
reason why you keep going back to these? Do you
trust them? Do you trust them more than you trust Woolies?
Sean Aylmer (01:57):
Though, well, on my third visit within the same hour,
I do trust the Bunnings guy that I keep going
back and returning to stuff that I got wrong to
begin with. I mean, what I find really interesting with
these surveys, the distrusted brands are basically brands who have
had a crisis. Woollies, Coles, Optus, Qantas, Tesla, x, Temu
(02:20):
I suppose to throwing there. Telstra is an interesting one.
I don't know whether that's a customer servicing or something
going on there. So the distrusted brands what I'm interested in. Fact,
Adam would love to hear your take on it. With distrust,
it's almost like a crisis. You suddenly go from you know,
an eight out of ten to a two out of
ten and just seems so difficult to start climbing up
(02:43):
that ladder again.
Adam Lang (02:44):
It really is. And I think, look, if you look
in that list of distrusted brands, you can see almost
a work in progress by Qantas. So what I mean
by that, if you take Coles and Woollies and the
pricing inquiry, I think that did enormous damage to both brands.
Then you have Qantas and we know very well storied
of issues with baggage handlers, with canceled flights, with charging customers.
(03:10):
That there was a number of stories in the last
five years of how that brand has been damaged, and
in the last year perhaps a little bit more. That
story is a work in progress. They're working their way back.
New planes just arrived this week. Oh sorry, a new
plane just arrived this week. As part of rebuilding, in
reinvesting in the brand, we've seen obviously they've had to
(03:33):
settle the case with those baggage handlers that they terminated unfairly.
They're working hard to rebuild with customers, lots more communication.
I think we're all frequent flyers and I'm receiving a
lot of communication about the work they're doing. So I
think you're right, Sean. I think it does really get started,
the distrust, with an event, and then it's over to
(03:55):
the brand as to how they work through it.
Michael Thompson (03:57):
Can I ask you then, Sean? Based on that, how
impressive is it, then, that the Commonwealth Bank is in the
top ten most trusted brands. It's coming in at number seven,
and I think it's up like five places since last
year to have recovered from its own crisis. Being part
of the banking Royal Commission. What's that seven, eight years ago?
Sean Aylmer (04:22):
It was twenty nineteen. But I think this highlights Adam's point.
All the banks did better this time. Commonwealth Bank, certainly
from memory, Westpac and ANZ were both around the I
think one was nineteen, one was twenty one. ANZ still
a fifty one, so not doing so well. But six
years ago we had that Royal Commission, and that's how
(04:42):
long it's taken for Commonwealth Bank, which really is an
incredible brand to break back in or break into the
top ten. So it just shows how much damage things
like the Optus outage will do to that company. You've
mentioned Woolies and Coals in that. How much damage Elon
(05:05):
Musk has done to Tesla because of his association with
Donald Trump? How much Quantus was another good example. You know,
it's taken come of think six years to recover in
terms of trust and so it really is a long
slow process. And Commonwealth Bank, you know, it's been of
the large caps just about the best performing stock. You know,
(05:27):
you have all sorts of good news out of Commonwealth
Bank all the time. It's only now back into trusted brands.
Michael Thompson (05:34):
In that case, do you think Woolies and Coals it's
going to take some time to get off the bottom
of the of the list, and they're trying this year
we've had essentially a price war. They've spent a fortune,
led by Woolies trying to slash prices in order to
rebuild that trust. But it doesn't seem to be working.
What are they going to need to do?
Sean Aylmer (05:54):
I think it just takes time. Funny thing is I
reckon Willies and Coals are totally trustworthy now because of
what they've been through, and so I actually believe what
Willis and Coals are saying, but it just takes time
to get there. The flip side to that, right, Bunnings
fantastic advertising. You feel the service is good. I'm not
sure that Bunnings prices are always cheaper. I mean they
(06:17):
might be, but I'm not sure. But I actually reckon
Willis and Coals are the distrusted brands are ready. They're
doing everything they can, more so than Bunnings because Bunnings
has got so much political capital at the moment, it
actually has room.
Michael Thompson (06:27):
To move out of directing. Companies pay attention to this directon.
They kind of watch this to say, oh, are we
climbing the ranks? Are because there is a value to it, right,
There is actually a value to companies to be on
or to be seen as trusted.
Adam Lang (06:42):
Oh yeah, look, I directly know many of the companies
do pay attention to it, and so I believe that
everyone does and they should. I really have a it's
a great question of you know what the value of
it is, like does it affect turnover? And I think
it does, but not on a short term basis. So
(07:02):
I think Woolies and Coles, I still shop there right,
and so I'm still trading probably just as much with
those brands as I used to. So even though I
feel differently about it, I'm still trading with them because
it happens to be the best option for a set
of reasons. But when I think about it, too, just
on that the Coles and Woolies, They've also had a
(07:23):
number of things with suppliers, you know, dairy farmers for
a while, you know, the one dollar a liter milk
that really challenged a lot of people, and that was
very heartfelt to many and probably very memorable like that
can scar over time. Other agricultural providers, Woollies and Coals
have really been very aggressive competitors and have negotiated hard
(07:43):
with those, sometimes too hart like a lot of farms
have had to close for it.
Sean Aylmer (07:47):
So the cheesemakers, Adam. Blessed are the cheesemakers!
Adam Lang (07:53):
Very good! Yes, blessed are the cheesemakers. I'm just wondering
it's not just customers, it's suppliers as well, and your partners.
So I think it does affect trade, not in the
short term, but I also wonder, and this is probably
an overreach but Commonwealth Bank being so highly valued as
a bank, like it's trading at world class highs in
(08:16):
terms of a profit multiple. Is it because they've just
done so many things so well over time? And I
think that that's a real hypothetical. But I don't think
it affects it in the short term.
Michael Thompson (08:29):
Okay, we are out of time. I will just point
out that looking at the most trusted brands, it's just
trying to figure out where Fear and Greed would fit.
I think somewhere in between Aldi and Kmart as a
trusted brand, and I was a little bit incensed that we
weren't on there. I was pleased to say that we
weren't on the most distrusted.
Adam Lang (08:45):
Or could we have a Fear and Greed index? Create
our own one?
Michael Thompson (08:49):
I like that, Yeah, I think. But anyway, somewhere in
between Aldi and Kmart would be feels like the right
spot for us. Okay, thank you very much, Sean.
Sean Aylmer (08:57):
Thanks Michael.
Michael Thompson (08:58):
Thank you, Adam.
Adam Lang (08:58):
Thank you, Michael. Thank you, Sean.
Michael Thompson (09:00):
Now remember if you've got a question that you'd like
to know, then send it through on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook,
or at Fearangreed dot com dot au. I'm Michael Thompson and
this is Fear and Greed q and a
Welcome to Fear and Greed Q and A, where we
ask and answer questions about business, investing, economics, politics and more.
I'm Michael Thompson, and good morning, Sean Aylmer.
Sean Aylmer (00:14):
Good morning. Michael.
Michael Thompson (00:16):
Good morning to you, Adam Lang.
Adam Lang (00:18):
Hello Michael, and hello again, Sean.
Sean Aylmer (00:20):
Hello, Adam.
Michael Thompson (00:22):
Today it is all about trust. We touched on this yesterday
in The Weekend Edition and I thought it was worthy
of another conversation because it's a big issue. This week
we saw the most trusted and most distrusted brands announced
by Roy Morgan. Every year they do this survey and
I think the findings are fantastic. Right, just for context,
(00:45):
the most trusted brands Bunnings, Aldi, Kmart, Apple, Toyota, Big W,
Commonwealth Bank, Myer, hmmm, Australia Post and JB HiFi. The
other end of the scale, the most distrusted brands at Woollies, Coles, Meta, Facebook, Optus, Qantas, Temu, Telstra, Tesla,
(01:08):
X formerly Twitter, and News Corp. I find it there's
there's so many extraordinary things in here, but I'm going
to ask you first, Adam, starting with the most trusted,
how hard is it to actually build trust as a company?
And you just take it away. Sean and I are
going to turn our mic's off and go and have
a cup of tea.
Adam Lang (01:28):
I think it's extremely hard. I mean, it starts with
having a very clear and distinct brand, and then you've
got to prove it every single time you interact with
a customer. So, I think it's the compounding story of many,
many interactions with customers, and I think that's probably what
makes Bunnings so impressive.
Michael Thompson (01:46):
Yeah, yeah, what did you think, Sean? I mean, you're
a Bunning's user, You're an Aldi user. Is there a
reason why you keep going back to these? Do you
trust them? Do you trust them more than you trust Woolies?
Sean Aylmer (01:57):
Though, well, on my third visit within the same hour,
I do trust the Bunnings guy that I keep going
back and returning to stuff that I got wrong to
begin with. I mean, what I find really interesting with
these surveys, the distrusted brands are basically brands who have
had a crisis. Woollies, Coles, Optus, Qantas, Tesla, x, Temu
(02:20):
I suppose to throwing there. Telstra is an interesting one.
I don't know whether that's a customer servicing or something
going on there. So the distrusted brands what I'm interested in. Fact,
Adam would love to hear your take on it. With distrust,
it's almost like a crisis. You suddenly go from you know,
an eight out of ten to a two out of
ten and just seems so difficult to start climbing up
(02:43):
that ladder again.
Adam Lang (02:44):
It really is. And I think, look, if you look
in that list of distrusted brands, you can see almost
a work in progress by Qantas. So what I mean
by that, if you take Coles and Woollies and the
pricing inquiry, I think that did enormous damage to both brands.
Then you have Qantas and we know very well storied
of issues with baggage handlers, with canceled flights, with charging customers.
(03:10):
That there was a number of stories in the last
five years of how that brand has been damaged, and
in the last year perhaps a little bit more. That
story is a work in progress. They're working their way back.
New planes just arrived this week. Oh sorry, a new
plane just arrived this week. As part of rebuilding, in
reinvesting in the brand, we've seen obviously they've had to
(03:33):
settle the case with those baggage handlers that they terminated unfairly.
They're working hard to rebuild with customers, lots more communication.
I think we're all frequent flyers and I'm receiving a
lot of communication about the work they're doing. So I
think you're right, Sean. I think it does really get started,
the distrust, with an event, and then it's over to
(03:55):
the brand as to how they work through it.
Michael Thompson (03:57):
Can I ask you then, Sean? Based on that, how
impressive is it, then, that the Commonwealth Bank is in the
top ten most trusted brands. It's coming in at number seven,
and I think it's up like five places since last
year to have recovered from its own crisis. Being part
of the banking Royal Commission. What's that seven, eight years ago?
Sean Aylmer (04:22):
It was twenty nineteen. But I think this highlights Adam's point.
All the banks did better this time. Commonwealth Bank, certainly
from memory, Westpac and ANZ were both around the I
think one was nineteen, one was twenty one. ANZ still
a fifty one, so not doing so well. But six
years ago we had that Royal Commission, and that's how
(04:42):
long it's taken for Commonwealth Bank, which really is an
incredible brand to break back in or break into the
top ten. So it just shows how much damage things
like the Optus outage will do to that company. You've
mentioned Woolies and Coals in that. How much damage Elon
(05:05):
Musk has done to Tesla because of his association with
Donald Trump? How much Quantus was another good example. You know,
it's taken come of think six years to recover in
terms of trust and so it really is a long
slow process. And Commonwealth Bank, you know, it's been of
the large caps just about the best performing stock. You know,
(05:27):
you have all sorts of good news out of Commonwealth
Bank all the time. It's only now back into trusted brands.
Michael Thompson (05:34):
In that case, do you think Woolies and Coals it's
going to take some time to get off the bottom
of the of the list, and they're trying this year
we've had essentially a price war. They've spent a fortune,
led by Woolies trying to slash prices in order to
rebuild that trust. But it doesn't seem to be working.
What are they going to need to do?
Sean Aylmer (05:54):
I think it just takes time. Funny thing is I
reckon Willies and Coals are totally trustworthy now because of
what they've been through, and so I actually believe what
Willis and Coals are saying, but it just takes time
to get there. The flip side to that, right, Bunnings
fantastic advertising. You feel the service is good. I'm not
sure that Bunnings prices are always cheaper. I mean they
(06:17):
might be, but I'm not sure. But I actually reckon
Willis and Coals are the distrusted brands are ready. They're
doing everything they can, more so than Bunnings because Bunnings
has got so much political capital at the moment, it
actually has room.
Michael Thompson (06:27):
To move out of directing. Companies pay attention to this directon.
They kind of watch this to say, oh, are we
climbing the ranks? Are because there is a value to it, right,
There is actually a value to companies to be on
or to be seen as trusted.
Adam Lang (06:42):
Oh yeah, look, I directly know many of the companies
do pay attention to it, and so I believe that
everyone does and they should. I really have a it's
a great question of you know what the value of
it is, like does it affect turnover? And I think
it does, but not on a short term basis. So
(07:02):
I think Woolies and Coles, I still shop there right,
and so I'm still trading probably just as much with
those brands as I used to. So even though I
feel differently about it, I'm still trading with them because
it happens to be the best option for a set
of reasons. But when I think about it, too, just
on that the Coles and Woolies, They've also had a
(07:23):
number of things with suppliers, you know, dairy farmers for
a while, you know, the one dollar a liter milk
that really challenged a lot of people, and that was
very heartfelt to many and probably very memorable like that
can scar over time. Other agricultural providers, Woollies and Coals
have really been very aggressive competitors and have negotiated hard
(07:43):
with those, sometimes too hart like a lot of farms
have had to close for it.
Sean Aylmer (07:47):
So the cheesemakers, Adam. Blessed are the cheesemakers!
Adam Lang (07:53):
Very good! Yes, blessed are the cheesemakers. I'm just wondering
it's not just customers, it's suppliers as well, and your partners.
So I think it does affect trade, not in the
short term, but I also wonder, and this is probably
an overreach but Commonwealth Bank being so highly valued as
a bank, like it's trading at world class highs in
(08:16):
terms of a profit multiple. Is it because they've just
done so many things so well over time? And I
think that that's a real hypothetical. But I don't think
it affects it in the short term.
Michael Thompson (08:29):
Okay, we are out of time. I will just point
out that looking at the most trusted brands, it's just
trying to figure out where Fear and Greed would fit.
I think somewhere in between Aldi and Kmart as a
trusted brand, and I was a little bit incensed that we
weren't on there. I was pleased to say that we
weren't on the most distrusted.
Adam Lang (08:45):
Or could we have a Fear and Greed index? Create
our own one?
Michael Thompson (08:49):
I like that, Yeah, I think. But anyway, somewhere in
between Aldi and Kmart would be feels like the right
spot for us. Okay, thank you very much, Sean.
Sean Aylmer (08:57):
Thanks Michael.
Michael Thompson (08:58):
Thank you, Adam.
Adam Lang (08:58):
Thank you, Michael. Thank you, Sean.
Michael Thompson (09:00):
Now remember if you've got a question that you'd like
to know, then send it through on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook,
or at Fearangreed dot com dot au. I'm Michael Thompson and
this is Fear and Greed q and a
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