October 10, 2025 • 29 mins
Sean Aylmer and Adam Lang go head to head on the top business stories of the week, with special guest judge Natalie MacDonald picking a winner in a fierce debate.
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Episode Transcript
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Sean Aylmer (00:06):
This is the weekend edition of Fear and Greed business
news you can use. I'm Sean Almer and good morning
Adam Lang.
Adam Lang (00:12):
Good morning Sean.
Sean Aylmer (00:13):
Our weekend show is all about the two of us. Well,
normally it's Michael and I, but this week it's you
and I because Michael's on holidays. But we nominate what
we think is the biggest story of the week, the
most remarkable story of mystery category, and our favorite Story
competition of course, so every week we are joined by
a judge to pick the winner. I am placed to
say we have a returning judge, in fact, a returning
(00:36):
Fear and Greeder let's be honest, Natalie MacDonald is back. Not
only has she done the show, but her day job
is founder of Working @ It. Hello, Nat.
Natalie MacDonald (00:45):
Hi, Sean, Hi, Adam, it's so fun to be back.
And on the judging side.
Sean Aylmer (00:53):
We laugh nervously. It's funny, Nat, you and I have
not worked together because of course you filled in when
I was away for four weeks. So this is a
new experience for me. So not that I'm going for
the sympathy vote, but just keep in mind now we're friends,
and I think first time working together, just a little sympathy.
Natalie MacDonald (01:13):
Just go easy. Well I do, I do have my own
guiding criteria. I haven't gone as I haven't gone as
far as as Adam does. I do not have it printed out,
but I do. I do have my neme. So I'm looking
I'm looking at I know I'm looking at size and
gravitas of news. I'm also I'm also leaning into, you know,
(01:33):
fear and greed. We look at business news you can use so
context and the flow through impact to Australians and small business.
And then a bit of storytelling. We know I'm a
big fan of my puns. I'm a big fan of
my puns, my critique, the little jabs where I can
get them, and so so bonus points for anything when
(01:54):
we've got some storytelling flare in there as well.
Sean Aylmer (01:57):
Fantastic. I really wish i'd known that before. For today anyway,
let's just ignore that Adam, bigbest story of the week
for you?
Adam Lang (02:06):
You, Okay. So here we are going for size and gravitas, sme,
impacts and puns. I'll just try and rewrite my story
as I go. Parliament is back, Natalie, and we know
that parliament and governments help set the rules for business,
so this is pretty vital. Our Prime Minister is back
in the country after a marathon international trip, and Parliament
(02:28):
returned this week, whereas about as much about topical politics
as it was about proof of leadership. The Albanese government
commands a strong majority in the House of Representatives, as
we know it means it governse securely but not without scrutiny.
In the Senate, Labour still relies on cross bench votes
to make legislative progress and in so many ways our
(02:49):
economic settings need it. That is for big business and SMEs.
Inside Parliament, the Optus Triple Zero outage dominated question time,
exposing gaps in crisis management and communication oversight. Outside Canberra,
the Prime Minister signed the Puk Puk Defence Treaty with
Papa New Guinea, deepening a joint defense access across the Pacific.
(03:11):
Our PM also launched Singapore's Comprehensive Strategic Partnership two point zero,
reinforcing trade, energy deals and cooperation, and he confirmed an
upcoming meeting with Donald Trump in Washington where AUKUS will
no doubt dominate the agenda shaping nuclear submarine investment, technology
sharing and supply chain jobs for decades and of course,
(03:32):
finally that White House meeting with Donald Trump has been put
in the calendar. This week Parliament returned to where domestic accountability
meets Australia's need for global diplomacy, and where credibility tests
political numbers to define real power. Overall, a big week
for Albanese and our biggest business story of the week Sean.
Sean Aylmer (03:53):
Well, firstly, Nat, are you giving points for boring?
Natalie MacDonald (04:01):
I will say, when the team reached out, Michael was
very keen that he would like to see points deducted.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
I do know if I can give him that, But
I am bearing yeah.
Sean Aylmer (04:10):
I feel free, feel free, And the omnibus character of
Adam's story was a disgrace. But anyway, another our guess,
regular guest judges Tim Burrows, actually sort of detracts points
when there's like ten stories in one. So just putting
it out there. That just putting it out there, that's all.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
I'll bear it in mind.
Sean Aylmer (04:30):
So what do you want? Size and gravitasks flows through
storytelling stuff like that one hundred years ago, Nat, A
long long time ago. No, Over the last hundred years,
there's been about fifty attempts or at least documented attempts
at peace plans for the Middle East. Not You know,
(04:52):
you think Camp David Accords, you think of conventions, you
think of all sorts of meetings. You know, Bill Clinton
tried it. Any presidents have tried it. Never has it succeeded.
This week, Israel and MAAS have officially signed a ceasefire
deal after President Donald Trump announced the two sides would
(05:14):
release all Israeli hostages in the first step towards what
he called strong, durable, and everlasting peace. Under the deal,
Israel will remain in fifty three percent of the Gaza
strip until the last of the hostages are released, dead
or alive. There are about twenty living hostages, believed to
be forty eight hostages in total, so the remains of
(05:35):
the other twenty eight will come out later or early
next week. Six hundred aid trucks have already begun flowing
into the Gaza. The broad deal will allow more humanitarian
aid to facilitate the prisoner exchange. It marks a significant
breakthrough in Trump's renewed push to end the conflict, which
has killed tens of thousands of people and triggered a
(05:57):
wave of problems across the Middle East. If the peace
deal holds, and let's face it, that is a very
very very very very very big If then this would
be the biggest story not just of the week, the year,
the decade, perhaps the twenty first century so far. It
would also cast Donald Trump in a totally new light.
(06:20):
Hard to say anything good about that man, but if
he can actually bring peace to the Middle East, well, dozens,
probably hundreds of politicians have been trying that for years
and years and years. Big Caveatt's got a hold. I
get that. But in terms of this week, the fact
that a peace deal was signed, Wow, that's a big story.
Natalie MacDonald (06:41):
However, to you, Nat, I'm sorry, Adam, it has to
be sure.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
You're You're totally right.
Natalie MacDonald (06:47):
I think there is no there's Like you said, there's
no bigger story this week, this month, this year.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
This decade.
Natalie MacDonald (06:54):
But I think interesting your point around whether or not
it holds, it's not neces necessarily. Yeah, we're looking at
a twenty point action plan essentially when it comes to
progress and a pathway forward. I also think, as you say,
Donald Trump's role in this is fascinating. That is a
(07:15):
university degree in itself, and he's definitely making those steps
towards that that Nobel Piece prize that he apparently seems
desperate for.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
So Sean Sean gets this one.
Sean Aylmer (07:29):
I'm liking that early, Adam, what do you reckon?
Adam Lang (07:31):
Yeah?
Sean Aylmer (07:31):
I can't object see the problem with you and is
such a nice guy. I want to really be nasty
to you, but you are genuinely a nice person. I mean,
when Michael's here, I didn't any problems being nasty.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
He does make it pretty easy.
Sean Aylmer (07:48):
Oh, that is something we're going to go on to
that particular comment.
Adam Lang (07:52):
Hell, hello, Michael, you're sure to be listening.
Sean Aylmer (07:55):
It's true most remarkable story. Can I go first?
Adam Lang (07:58):
Yeah? Please? Girl?
Sean Aylmer (08:00):
Gold gold, gold, gold, gold, gold, gold, and gold pushing
through four thousand US dollars an ounce, driven by investors
seeking safety from economic and geo political uncertainty. Plenty going on.
I mean, we had the spot gold hitting forty twenty
US dollars an ounce, quite phenomenal, up more than fifty
(08:20):
percent this year twenty seven percent last year. A bunch
of factors in this central banks are piling into gold,
institutional investors. They're probably not piling the gold, but they're
buying up gold. There's renewed interest in gold backed exchange
traded funds. This resilient retail demand has very much fueled
(08:41):
the medal's bullish run. Investors also are starting to fear
hard currencies, and this is a bit crazy. Greenback has
always been a safe haven currency. It still is, so
let's not overstate this. But the White House that's in
at the moment that Trump administration has really hurt its credibility,
and people just hold the US dollar like they used to.
(09:02):
The Euro another big currency, not quite as safe haven
as the usd but probably second in line. Well, what's
going on in France at the moment where we had
a prime minister for twenty four hours, the fifth one
over the past year. That's causing all sorts of disturbances there.
In Japan there's new prime minister, so at the end
is struggling. Fair bit of fomo going on as well
(09:23):
as gold price increases, people keep jumping in. Just remarkable
that gold can get to four thousand and potentially five
thousand US dollars announced according to Goldman Sacks over the
last twelve months. I just hasn't a side here. Can
I throw in the Pokemon craze as well, because Pokemon
(09:44):
pokemon cars are trading at record highs as well. It's
a wild, wild world out there. My most remarkable story, though,
is all about gold.
Speaker 5 (09:52):
Adam, thank you sean gold in a dash of Pokemon
and I get it. Look, gold did grab a few
headlines this week, but the real shift in the contemporary
economy is digital. Get out of the molten metals shorn
and get with a hip new digital stuff.
Sean Aylmer (10:08):
I'm an analogue man, you are so digital.
Adam Lang (10:14):
I'll try and play that role for now.
Speaker 5 (10:16):
Bitcoin has surged past US one hundred and twenty five
thousand dollars, and that is up more than thirty percent
in this year alone, behaving less like a speculative item
and more like a safe haven asset. It is a
brave new digital world, and we've got to get our
collective business heads around it. The same forces that are
pushing gold higher, geopolitical tension, sticky inflation, interest rates, interest
(10:40):
rate jitters, and general uncertainty are driving institutional and individual
money into bitcoin. In a single decade, cryptocurrency has gone
from rebel stock to safe refuge. And what's remarkable isn't
just the price, it's the perception of it being an
established safe When markets start treating crypto code is collateral.
(11:03):
We're seeing a generational change in how people define trust.
Gold demand signals fear, Bitcoin love signals evolution. And this
week the most remarkable story in global finance wasn't about
the past and that shiny, beautiful yellow metal. It was
about what investors know the future looks like. It's digital,
its boundary breaking, and its crypto.
Sean Aylmer (11:25):
Natalie Oh, hold on? Can I put a protest in?
Speaker 4 (11:28):
Natalie First, I'm open to it.
Sean Aylmer (11:32):
The phrase gold demand signals fear, Bitcoin love signals evolution.
I mean, what's Adam on at the moment. It's early
in the morning.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
I okay, So I really like both of these stories.
Natalie MacDonald (11:48):
And I was so so fascinated to see cues of
people outside as true.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Yeah, so absolutely true.
Natalie MacDonald (11:58):
Yeah outside ABC Billion in Sydney's Martin Place, they had
crowds so mostly apparently retirees and families were waiting around.
I'm hoping to buy one family were looking at twenty
grams of gold, a few grams of silver. You know,
they're quite literally lining their pockets. I think that's really fascinating.
(12:21):
I also have to say I was I actually attended
the launch of Bitcoin's Gemini new platform launching Australia, and
that was really curious as well some of the conversation
that emerged from there as well, the fact that we
are now seeing you know, more baby boomers. Used to
be house seeing as that collection of wealth accumulation, but
(12:42):
then now looking at crypto, you're also seeing women, you know,
in terms of demographics change, women are now coming into
that space and placing larger deposits. So I think it's
really really interesting that you are now seeing this as
becoming Yeah, as Adam said that that more legitimate that decentralized,
so therefore less risky kind of product coming through. So
(13:07):
I'm giving this one to Adam.
Adam Lang (13:10):
Even Sean at the halftime.
Sean Aylmer (13:12):
Break tumbleweeds absolute tumbleweeds on that.
Adam Lang (13:16):
He takes it well, Natalie doesn't he.
Sean Aylmer (13:21):
I mean, it's one one going into the break. I'm
very competitive, not quite as competitive as Michael, but I'm
very competitive, So not really happy going into one one
rather than to zip. But we will manage pressed in
the break. Sean, that's right. We like Natalie McDonald. We
like Natalie McDonald. That's it. We'll be back at a
moment with the west rest of the weekend edition. Okay,
(13:49):
so Category three to be judged by the wonderful Naphalie McDonald,
our guest judge this morning, founder of Working at It.
How is it? How is working at Its going?
Speaker 4 (13:59):
That it's great.
Natalie MacDonald (14:01):
I've had a couple of really lovely wins lately with
some of the clients, so that I've been supporting in
their in their online journey, their visibility journey in the
digital space. And it's just so wonderful to see people
starting to own and grow their personal and professional brands.
So it's been enjoyable. When was the last time, Suan,
(14:21):
that you logged into your LinkedIn account?
Sean Aylmer (14:24):
Hey, hey, hold on. I came back from holidays and
they orders went. Natalie said, you've got to do LinkedIn
because you never do LinkedIn, And so I did a
couple of LinkedIn posts within the first week, because that's
probably two weeks ago, and so for me, that's actually
pretty good.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Yeah, it's bringing your average up.
Sean Aylmer (14:48):
So just exactly what he's working at it for listeners.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
So Working at It is a consultancy.
Natalie MacDonald (14:54):
It's built off the back of seven years experience in
the machine, as it were, the LinkedIn machine.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
So I support.
Natalie MacDonald (15:03):
Execs and c suites and individuals on connecting their professional
and their personal brand and building out an online presence
and supporting those like yourself, Sean who maybe aren't quite
sure where they fit in the world, to help them
grow their network. So for individuals it might be looking
to secure their next opportunity or positioning themselves as a
(15:25):
thought leader of choice, and for organizations kind of flipping
it around the other way of building brand trust, it's
attracting and retaining.
Sean Aylmer (15:33):
Talent fantastic, So it's working at as in the symbol at, I.
Natalie MacDonald (15:39):
Think, because we are all working at something, so we
may as well do it together and make it great fantastic.
Sean Aylmer (15:45):
Our next category, it's our mystery category. Now it's sort
of I mean, we called it Teke gone Wrong, but
perhaps better described as oops moments, because we all have
oops moments I shouldn't have done that, and these stories
about are about oh, I shouldn't have done that moments. Adam,
(16:07):
do you want to go first, sure, Sean.
Speaker 5 (16:10):
This week, it wasn't just international scale hackers that brought
down trust. It was human error upon error upon non
monitored error. In Parliament, the optist triple zero failure dominated
question time, with the government forced to admit that emergency
alerts during the crisis was sent to a non monitored
email inbox. It wasn't just a software glitch or a
(16:32):
network collapse or vishing. That's the combination of voice and
fishing with a pH. It was a communications breakdown inside
our National Communications Department. Minister for Communications Annika Wells described
the incident as deeply regrettable, but the language couldn't hide
the reality a failure of process, not just technology, with
(16:53):
awful human impact and tragic consequences. This was a story
about how big systems can be changed and miss important details,
and how public trust vanishes in the gap between responsibility
and effective response. In a week of geopolitical headlines, cyber
risks and global hacks, the real tech mystery was much
(17:13):
much simpler. How did a modern government lose contact with
its own emergency network?
Adam Lang (17:19):
Sean?
Sean Aylmer (17:20):
Are you going to keep throwing it up political stories?
Speaker 5 (17:23):
Adam, Well, it's been a bonanza week for it. I
can't help what I'm gifted.
Sean Aylmer (17:32):
Oh, Adam, Look, my oop's story really comes out of
the fact that Connus has been caught up in a
massive cyber attack that's hit thirty nine companies around the
Globe a hack a collective called Scattered Laps of Dollar Hunters.
Why do hacker collectives have names like Scattered Laps of
Dollar Hunters. Anyone, Nat, Adam, anyone?
Adam Lang (17:53):
No, can't help?
Speaker 4 (17:54):
No, sorry, I mean.
Sean Aylmer (17:56):
Just call yourselves, you know, criminals or something like that.
Scattered Steve like that, Barry, we are the Barries, and
we are we want to steal one billion records, which
is what Scattered Laps of Dollar Hunters did by targeting
customers of cloud technology giant Salesforce. It's been vishing, as
(18:18):
Adam told us, that's voice fishing. Basically, hackers pose as
legitimate employees, call company I desks, convince unsuspecting staff to
grant them access. They do that. Oops, that's the oops
moment in this story. Bunch of companies caught up outside Quannis, Toyota,
Google at Sansisco, Disney Air France, kalam I Kia. The
stolen data reportedly includes customer dates of birth, passport numbers,
(18:41):
and purchase histories collected over the past eighteen months or so.
The data is expected or they have threatened. Our friend
Barry Aie Scattered Laps of Dollar Hunters has threatened to
put it on the dark Web from about now. The
massive attacks show that once again the most at risk
(19:02):
part of a company's technology security is human interaction. In
this instance, rather than actually hacking salesforces systems, they exploited
the human element. They basically ring them up and convinced
them to download a tool. What I must say with
my story and Adam's story, it is the human intervention
(19:24):
where things go wrong. But I actually feel very very
sorry for the individual humans involved, because at the end
of the day, optics need to have processes in place
that one individual can't be at fault. Same deal with
all these large corporates like Quantus, Toyota, Google, et cetera. Now,
without knowing the absolute detail, it's hard to see what happened,
(19:46):
but I do feel sorry for the individuals.
Natalie MacDonald (19:48):
Nat So I mentioned that Michael had encouraged me to
deduct points.
Sean Aylmer (19:57):
I'm not since when you mean this, Michael, this is
a really good point.
Natalie MacDonald (20:04):
No, So I did consider because Adam, this is in
fact the second story that you have used Parliament, and
so as far as you know, bringing something fresh to
the table. Now, I'm not going to detract because frankly
that's cruel and also that does feel like I would
just be listening to Michael just that touch too much,
(20:25):
but I just can't.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
I can't do it.
Natalie MacDonald (20:28):
But I am going with Sean on this one. I
think it's really incredible when you have a group of
Steve's I'm going to call them because I can't pronounce,
because I can't pronounce their scattered lap, you know, because
this is a group that's claimed responsibility for hacks on
(20:49):
overseas organizations as well, Marks and Spencer, Jaguar, Landrover in
the UK. Additionally, and now you've got forty companies around
the world who are all kind of at the behest.
I also really find it interesting salesforce is refusing to engage.
They're not negotiating, they're not paying any form of extortion demand.
(21:11):
So where do you go from here? You know, realistically,
I just think it's fascinating. I think, as you both mentioned,
you know, the human error impact of this, it is
becoming more and more common. This morning, I was definitely
sent something by my dad that was absolutely going to
steal all of my bank details.
Sean Aylmer (21:32):
And there's just your father liked that generally.
Natalie MacDonald (21:35):
No, no, In fact, he'll probably tell you it's a
lifetime a bit of the other way around me trying
to steal his.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
But it really really continues to.
Natalie MacDonald (21:44):
Bring to the fore the fact that there needs to
be greater systems put to put in place to protect
consumers and to protect Australians and protect our data.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
So in this instance, Sean gets it.
Sean Aylmer (21:56):
Excellent judgment to Nana. Good Oh dear, well, we go
to our favorite story. I think it's my turn to
go first. I'll jump in. I every time this happens
every year, I really like it. It's the Times ranking
of universities, and particularly the Australian universities. Six ozsie unis
(22:18):
were ranked in the top one hundred worldwide, ten in
the top two hundred. University in Melbourne rated the best
Australian instituted ranked globally thirty seven, up from thirty nine.
Achieved near per scores for research excellence and influence as
well as teaching quality. A good friend of mine, Micky Coelli,
is an academic down there, So go Mick. Australia's oldest institution,
(22:41):
the University of Sydney, went from sixty one to fifty three.
Monash's at fifty eight. Australian National University University in New
South Wales, Union of Queensland all in that top one hundred.
Just to fill out the story, Oxford in England tops
the world rankings. One for you, Natalie, Massachusetts Institute of
Technology m I team in the US and Boston that's
number two, and then Princeton and Cambridge come in at
(23:03):
equal three. Why it's my favorite story. The better Australian
university is doing these times rankings, the more opportunity they
have to attract foreign students. Given what's going on in
the US at the moment, and we see federal funding
for universities being collapsed as they reach out to more
(23:24):
foreign students, that provides an opportunity not just for the
UK universities, but Australian universities as well. We have a
comparative advantage in being an English speaking country, which seems
to be the favored language to learn in. We also
have these great institutions that can export, so when someone
(23:45):
comes into this country does university course, that's an export.
We're still about thirty five billion dollars of higher education
exports a year already and this is a massive, massive
opportunity for US and the further up the rankings, the
local university is the be the opportunity. My favorite story
Adam Sean.
Speaker 5 (24:06):
It's a brilliant story about a multi billion dollar industry.
But how about we step up the game a little to.
Sean Aylmer (24:12):
The Trilivel's ledg from Adam unheard of go on.
Speaker 5 (24:16):
While many many turned into global markets and our winter
football codes are over, Australian too a back, spending their
springtime watching, investing, and buying property In September National September
National home values rose zero point eight percent in that
month alone, reaching a median of eight hundred and fifty
(24:37):
seven two hundred and eighty dollars, marking the fastest monthly gain.
Adam Lang (24:41):
In a year.
Speaker 5 (24:42):
According to Cotality, quarterly values increased two point two percent,
with broad gains across the cities. The capital cities including
Brisbane Serves one point two per one point six, Sydney
zero point eight and Melbourne zero point five. At the
same time, median rents in capital cities passed se seven
hundred dollars a week for the first time, with rents
(25:03):
up nearly forty four percent over five years. These numbers
tell a story of property scarcity, limited listings and increasing population,
surging demand and rising borrowing capacity are pushing prices up.
In a world of instability, property still remains Australia's most
consistent bet. That's why housing continues to be more than
(25:23):
a story as a national asset cost felt in every
hip pocket. Whether it's the worry about rent or the
hope of home ownership, property binds us all where and
the way it flourishes.
Sean Aylmer (25:35):
What's with it? You know, whether it's the worry about
my going to home ownership, property binds us all deductions and.
Speaker 5 (25:44):
I'll continue where how and the way in which we
all live starts and finishes every day. And that is
why this is my favorite story of the week. The
opportunity is huge and important to fix it.
Sean Aylmer (25:57):
The opportunity is for Natalie to deduct points from the
garbage that's going on.
Natalie MacDonald (26:02):
Here is Michael in the room with us.
Speaker 6 (26:07):
I'm so that was so Michael esque in its delivery,
although actually he would probably still be talking admittedly.
Sean Aylmer (26:21):
A few times today, but that's the worst one. You
are turning into Michael Sewan.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
And also, to be honest stories aside.
Natalie MacDonald (26:29):
Adam gets this mainly because then the nicest man in
media offering the rarest sledge of all time basically, like, basically,
he gets it.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
And I did say that I have my criteria storytelling
was was one of them ignored?
Natalie MacDonald (26:49):
That's because they're my criteria, Sean. I can change them
at will, but I think I don't. So, yes, Adam
does get this. But Sean and your story around education,
I do think the university thing is really really really interesting.
I think increasingly, if you look at universities and even
(27:09):
you know, private school systems, foreign student numbers are their
pathway to financial success, like that is just becoming increasingly
important to them. My concern though, is then what that
does do for citizens, for residents and in terms of
education pathways for residents of those countries who are being
(27:31):
priced out essentially or who are being pushed out due
to that duty.
Sean Aylmer (27:37):
Maybe that's Cain Region, maybe that's Oxford. But here in Australia,
don't you worry about it. Plenty a place if you'll
find you will find room.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
Still take you be that, be that, be that as
it may.
Natalie MacDonald (27:51):
Sean, Adam gets this property property win every every time,
and also sledging. Sledging wins every every time.
Sean Aylmer (28:01):
Also, well, I'm happy to concede purely on the sledging
on Adam, like, I'm not happy to concede on the story.
So does that mean we're at to Were you giving
points by any chance during that matter?
Speaker 5 (28:13):
On?
Speaker 4 (28:13):
No, I wasn't. No, it does it puts it puts you.
It puts you at a.
Natalie MacDonald (28:18):
Draw, which actually Adam may remember that was how Michael
and I were left hanging.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
How How does it feel.
Adam Lang (28:27):
Strangely unsatisfied?
Speaker 4 (28:31):
Now?
Speaker 5 (28:31):
You know?
Natalie MacDonald (28:32):
No, great great battle gentlemen, I'm.
Sean Aylmer (28:36):
Really keen to be judge at some point, all that
you could come do the show and I can be
judged because I think the judge has so much power. Like,
neither Adam nor I are happy at the moment, but
we're not sad either.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
No, but you enjoyed the experience.
Sean Aylmer (28:59):
Thank you so so much for coming on. Remember everyone
working at IT get it. What's the best way to
get in touch with you?
Speaker 4 (29:06):
That there's this little thing called LinkedIn.
Natalie MacDonald (29:11):
I can be found by Bill Bye blue button.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
Sean.
Natalie MacDonald (29:17):
You probably don't even remember how to spell LinkedIn. It's
been spend that long, you know. You can find me
on LinkedIn. Oh, you can find me at www. Dot
working at it, dot com dot au.
Sean Aylmer (29:30):
Fantastic Matt, thanks for joining us this morning.
Speaker 5 (29:32):
Thanks for having me, Thank you Adam, thank you Sean,
and thank you DaLie.
Sean Aylmer (29:35):
Make sure you're following the podcast. Join us online on LinkedIn, LinkedIn, LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok,
Facebook and X Did I get it right now? LinkedIn?
Did I mention? I think I got to work with it.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
I think you spooze it in that.
Sean Aylmer (29:48):
I'm sure I am. That was the weekend edition by
Fear and Greek Business Views. We hope you have a
great weekend.
This is the weekend edition of Fear and Greed business
news you can use. I'm Sean Almer and good morning
Adam Lang.
Adam Lang (00:12):
Good morning Sean.
Sean Aylmer (00:13):
Our weekend show is all about the two of us. Well,
normally it's Michael and I, but this week it's you
and I because Michael's on holidays. But we nominate what
we think is the biggest story of the week, the
most remarkable story of mystery category, and our favorite Story
competition of course, so every week we are joined by
a judge to pick the winner. I am placed to
say we have a returning judge, in fact, a returning
(00:36):
Fear and Greeder let's be honest, Natalie MacDonald is back. Not
only has she done the show, but her day job
is founder of Working @ It. Hello, Nat.
Natalie MacDonald (00:45):
Hi, Sean, Hi, Adam, it's so fun to be back.
And on the judging side.
Sean Aylmer (00:53):
We laugh nervously. It's funny, Nat, you and I have
not worked together because of course you filled in when
I was away for four weeks. So this is a
new experience for me. So not that I'm going for
the sympathy vote, but just keep in mind now we're friends,
and I think first time working together, just a little sympathy.
Natalie MacDonald (01:13):
Just go easy. Well I do, I do have my own
guiding criteria. I haven't gone as I haven't gone as
far as as Adam does. I do not have it printed out,
but I do. I do have my neme. So I'm looking
I'm looking at I know I'm looking at size and
gravitas of news. I'm also I'm also leaning into, you know,
(01:33):
fear and greed. We look at business news you can use so
context and the flow through impact to Australians and small business.
And then a bit of storytelling. We know I'm a
big fan of my puns. I'm a big fan of
my puns, my critique, the little jabs where I can
get them, and so so bonus points for anything when
(01:54):
we've got some storytelling flare in there as well.
Sean Aylmer (01:57):
Fantastic. I really wish i'd known that before. For today anyway,
let's just ignore that Adam, bigbest story of the week
for you?
Adam Lang (02:06):
You, Okay. So here we are going for size and gravitas, sme,
impacts and puns. I'll just try and rewrite my story
as I go. Parliament is back, Natalie, and we know
that parliament and governments help set the rules for business,
so this is pretty vital. Our Prime Minister is back
in the country after a marathon international trip, and Parliament
(02:28):
returned this week, whereas about as much about topical politics
as it was about proof of leadership. The Albanese government
commands a strong majority in the House of Representatives, as
we know it means it governse securely but not without scrutiny.
In the Senate, Labour still relies on cross bench votes
to make legislative progress and in so many ways our
(02:49):
economic settings need it. That is for big business and SMEs.
Inside Parliament, the Optus Triple Zero outage dominated question time,
exposing gaps in crisis management and communication oversight. Outside Canberra,
the Prime Minister signed the Puk Puk Defence Treaty with
Papa New Guinea, deepening a joint defense access across the Pacific.
(03:11):
Our PM also launched Singapore's Comprehensive Strategic Partnership two point zero,
reinforcing trade, energy deals and cooperation, and he confirmed an
upcoming meeting with Donald Trump in Washington where AUKUS will
no doubt dominate the agenda shaping nuclear submarine investment, technology
sharing and supply chain jobs for decades and of course,
(03:32):
finally that White House meeting with Donald Trump has been put
in the calendar. This week Parliament returned to where domestic accountability
meets Australia's need for global diplomacy, and where credibility tests
political numbers to define real power. Overall, a big week
for Albanese and our biggest business story of the week Sean.
Sean Aylmer (03:53):
Well, firstly, Nat, are you giving points for boring?
Natalie MacDonald (04:01):
I will say, when the team reached out, Michael was
very keen that he would like to see points deducted.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
I do know if I can give him that, But
I am bearing yeah.
Sean Aylmer (04:10):
I feel free, feel free, And the omnibus character of
Adam's story was a disgrace. But anyway, another our guess,
regular guest judges Tim Burrows, actually sort of detracts points
when there's like ten stories in one. So just putting
it out there. That just putting it out there, that's all.
Speaker 4 (04:27):
I'll bear it in mind.
Sean Aylmer (04:30):
So what do you want? Size and gravitasks flows through
storytelling stuff like that one hundred years ago, Nat, A
long long time ago. No, Over the last hundred years,
there's been about fifty attempts or at least documented attempts
at peace plans for the Middle East. Not You know,
(04:52):
you think Camp David Accords, you think of conventions, you
think of all sorts of meetings. You know, Bill Clinton
tried it. Any presidents have tried it. Never has it succeeded.
This week, Israel and MAAS have officially signed a ceasefire
deal after President Donald Trump announced the two sides would
(05:14):
release all Israeli hostages in the first step towards what
he called strong, durable, and everlasting peace. Under the deal,
Israel will remain in fifty three percent of the Gaza
strip until the last of the hostages are released, dead
or alive. There are about twenty living hostages, believed to
be forty eight hostages in total, so the remains of
(05:35):
the other twenty eight will come out later or early
next week. Six hundred aid trucks have already begun flowing
into the Gaza. The broad deal will allow more humanitarian
aid to facilitate the prisoner exchange. It marks a significant
breakthrough in Trump's renewed push to end the conflict, which
has killed tens of thousands of people and triggered a
(05:57):
wave of problems across the Middle East. If the peace
deal holds, and let's face it, that is a very
very very very very very big If then this would
be the biggest story not just of the week, the year,
the decade, perhaps the twenty first century so far. It
would also cast Donald Trump in a totally new light.
(06:20):
Hard to say anything good about that man, but if
he can actually bring peace to the Middle East, well, dozens,
probably hundreds of politicians have been trying that for years
and years and years. Big Caveatt's got a hold. I
get that. But in terms of this week, the fact
that a peace deal was signed, Wow, that's a big story.
Natalie MacDonald (06:41):
However, to you, Nat, I'm sorry, Adam, it has to
be sure.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
You're You're totally right.
Natalie MacDonald (06:47):
I think there is no there's Like you said, there's
no bigger story this week, this month, this year.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
This decade.
Natalie MacDonald (06:54):
But I think interesting your point around whether or not
it holds, it's not neces necessarily. Yeah, we're looking at
a twenty point action plan essentially when it comes to
progress and a pathway forward. I also think, as you say,
Donald Trump's role in this is fascinating. That is a
(07:15):
university degree in itself, and he's definitely making those steps
towards that that Nobel Piece prize that he apparently seems
desperate for.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
So Sean Sean gets this one.
Sean Aylmer (07:29):
I'm liking that early, Adam, what do you reckon?
Adam Lang (07:31):
Yeah?
Sean Aylmer (07:31):
I can't object see the problem with you and is
such a nice guy. I want to really be nasty
to you, but you are genuinely a nice person. I mean,
when Michael's here, I didn't any problems being nasty.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
He does make it pretty easy.
Sean Aylmer (07:48):
Oh, that is something we're going to go on to
that particular comment.
Adam Lang (07:52):
Hell, hello, Michael, you're sure to be listening.
Sean Aylmer (07:55):
It's true most remarkable story. Can I go first?
Adam Lang (07:58):
Yeah? Please? Girl?
Sean Aylmer (08:00):
Gold gold, gold, gold, gold, gold, gold, and gold pushing
through four thousand US dollars an ounce, driven by investors
seeking safety from economic and geo political uncertainty. Plenty going on.
I mean, we had the spot gold hitting forty twenty
US dollars an ounce, quite phenomenal, up more than fifty
(08:20):
percent this year twenty seven percent last year. A bunch
of factors in this central banks are piling into gold,
institutional investors. They're probably not piling the gold, but they're
buying up gold. There's renewed interest in gold backed exchange
traded funds. This resilient retail demand has very much fueled
(08:41):
the medal's bullish run. Investors also are starting to fear
hard currencies, and this is a bit crazy. Greenback has
always been a safe haven currency. It still is, so
let's not overstate this. But the White House that's in
at the moment that Trump administration has really hurt its credibility,
and people just hold the US dollar like they used to.
(09:02):
The Euro another big currency, not quite as safe haven
as the usd but probably second in line. Well, what's
going on in France at the moment where we had
a prime minister for twenty four hours, the fifth one
over the past year. That's causing all sorts of disturbances there.
In Japan there's new prime minister, so at the end
is struggling. Fair bit of fomo going on as well
(09:23):
as gold price increases, people keep jumping in. Just remarkable
that gold can get to four thousand and potentially five
thousand US dollars announced according to Goldman Sacks over the
last twelve months. I just hasn't a side here. Can
I throw in the Pokemon craze as well, because Pokemon
(09:44):
pokemon cars are trading at record highs as well. It's
a wild, wild world out there. My most remarkable story, though,
is all about gold.
Speaker 5 (09:52):
Adam, thank you sean gold in a dash of Pokemon
and I get it. Look, gold did grab a few
headlines this week, but the real shift in the contemporary
economy is digital. Get out of the molten metals shorn
and get with a hip new digital stuff.
Sean Aylmer (10:08):
I'm an analogue man, you are so digital.
Adam Lang (10:14):
I'll try and play that role for now.
Speaker 5 (10:16):
Bitcoin has surged past US one hundred and twenty five
thousand dollars, and that is up more than thirty percent
in this year alone, behaving less like a speculative item
and more like a safe haven asset. It is a
brave new digital world, and we've got to get our
collective business heads around it. The same forces that are
pushing gold higher, geopolitical tension, sticky inflation, interest rates, interest
(10:40):
rate jitters, and general uncertainty are driving institutional and individual
money into bitcoin. In a single decade, cryptocurrency has gone
from rebel stock to safe refuge. And what's remarkable isn't
just the price, it's the perception of it being an
established safe When markets start treating crypto code is collateral.
(11:03):
We're seeing a generational change in how people define trust.
Gold demand signals fear, Bitcoin love signals evolution. And this
week the most remarkable story in global finance wasn't about
the past and that shiny, beautiful yellow metal. It was
about what investors know the future looks like. It's digital,
its boundary breaking, and its crypto.
Sean Aylmer (11:25):
Natalie Oh, hold on? Can I put a protest in?
Speaker 4 (11:28):
Natalie First, I'm open to it.
Sean Aylmer (11:32):
The phrase gold demand signals fear, Bitcoin love signals evolution.
I mean, what's Adam on at the moment. It's early
in the morning.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
I okay, So I really like both of these stories.
Natalie MacDonald (11:48):
And I was so so fascinated to see cues of
people outside as true.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Yeah, so absolutely true.
Natalie MacDonald (11:58):
Yeah outside ABC Billion in Sydney's Martin Place, they had
crowds so mostly apparently retirees and families were waiting around.
I'm hoping to buy one family were looking at twenty
grams of gold, a few grams of silver. You know,
they're quite literally lining their pockets. I think that's really fascinating.
(12:21):
I also have to say I was I actually attended
the launch of Bitcoin's Gemini new platform launching Australia, and
that was really curious as well some of the conversation
that emerged from there as well, the fact that we
are now seeing you know, more baby boomers. Used to
be house seeing as that collection of wealth accumulation, but
(12:42):
then now looking at crypto, you're also seeing women, you know,
in terms of demographics change, women are now coming into
that space and placing larger deposits. So I think it's
really really interesting that you are now seeing this as
becoming Yeah, as Adam said that that more legitimate that decentralized,
so therefore less risky kind of product coming through. So
(13:07):
I'm giving this one to Adam.
Adam Lang (13:10):
Even Sean at the halftime.
Sean Aylmer (13:12):
Break tumbleweeds absolute tumbleweeds on that.
Adam Lang (13:16):
He takes it well, Natalie doesn't he.
Sean Aylmer (13:21):
I mean, it's one one going into the break. I'm
very competitive, not quite as competitive as Michael, but I'm
very competitive, So not really happy going into one one
rather than to zip. But we will manage pressed in
the break. Sean, that's right. We like Natalie McDonald. We
like Natalie McDonald. That's it. We'll be back at a
moment with the west rest of the weekend edition. Okay,
(13:49):
so Category three to be judged by the wonderful Naphalie McDonald,
our guest judge this morning, founder of Working at It.
How is it? How is working at Its going?
Speaker 4 (13:59):
That it's great.
Natalie MacDonald (14:01):
I've had a couple of really lovely wins lately with
some of the clients, so that I've been supporting in
their in their online journey, their visibility journey in the
digital space. And it's just so wonderful to see people
starting to own and grow their personal and professional brands.
So it's been enjoyable. When was the last time, Suan,
(14:21):
that you logged into your LinkedIn account?
Sean Aylmer (14:24):
Hey, hey, hold on. I came back from holidays and
they orders went. Natalie said, you've got to do LinkedIn
because you never do LinkedIn, And so I did a
couple of LinkedIn posts within the first week, because that's
probably two weeks ago, and so for me, that's actually
pretty good.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Yeah, it's bringing your average up.
Sean Aylmer (14:48):
So just exactly what he's working at it for listeners.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
So Working at It is a consultancy.
Natalie MacDonald (14:54):
It's built off the back of seven years experience in
the machine, as it were, the LinkedIn machine.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
So I support.
Natalie MacDonald (15:03):
Execs and c suites and individuals on connecting their professional
and their personal brand and building out an online presence
and supporting those like yourself, Sean who maybe aren't quite
sure where they fit in the world, to help them
grow their network. So for individuals it might be looking
to secure their next opportunity or positioning themselves as a
(15:25):
thought leader of choice, and for organizations kind of flipping
it around the other way of building brand trust, it's
attracting and retaining.
Sean Aylmer (15:33):
Talent fantastic, So it's working at as in the symbol at, I.
Natalie MacDonald (15:39):
Think, because we are all working at something, so we
may as well do it together and make it great fantastic.
Sean Aylmer (15:45):
Our next category, it's our mystery category. Now it's sort
of I mean, we called it Teke gone Wrong, but
perhaps better described as oops moments, because we all have
oops moments I shouldn't have done that, and these stories
about are about oh, I shouldn't have done that moments. Adam,
(16:07):
do you want to go first, sure, Sean.
Speaker 5 (16:10):
This week, it wasn't just international scale hackers that brought
down trust. It was human error upon error upon non
monitored error. In Parliament, the optist triple zero failure dominated
question time, with the government forced to admit that emergency
alerts during the crisis was sent to a non monitored
email inbox. It wasn't just a software glitch or a
(16:32):
network collapse or vishing. That's the combination of voice and
fishing with a pH. It was a communications breakdown inside
our National Communications Department. Minister for Communications Annika Wells described
the incident as deeply regrettable, but the language couldn't hide
the reality a failure of process, not just technology, with
(16:53):
awful human impact and tragic consequences. This was a story
about how big systems can be changed and miss important details,
and how public trust vanishes in the gap between responsibility
and effective response. In a week of geopolitical headlines, cyber
risks and global hacks, the real tech mystery was much
(17:13):
much simpler. How did a modern government lose contact with
its own emergency network?
Adam Lang (17:19):
Sean?
Sean Aylmer (17:20):
Are you going to keep throwing it up political stories?
Speaker 5 (17:23):
Adam, Well, it's been a bonanza week for it. I
can't help what I'm gifted.
Sean Aylmer (17:32):
Oh, Adam, Look, my oop's story really comes out of
the fact that Connus has been caught up in a
massive cyber attack that's hit thirty nine companies around the
Globe a hack a collective called Scattered Laps of Dollar Hunters.
Why do hacker collectives have names like Scattered Laps of
Dollar Hunters. Anyone, Nat, Adam, anyone?
Adam Lang (17:53):
No, can't help?
Speaker 4 (17:54):
No, sorry, I mean.
Sean Aylmer (17:56):
Just call yourselves, you know, criminals or something like that.
Scattered Steve like that, Barry, we are the Barries, and
we are we want to steal one billion records, which
is what Scattered Laps of Dollar Hunters did by targeting
customers of cloud technology giant Salesforce. It's been vishing, as
(18:18):
Adam told us, that's voice fishing. Basically, hackers pose as
legitimate employees, call company I desks, convince unsuspecting staff to
grant them access. They do that. Oops, that's the oops
moment in this story. Bunch of companies caught up outside Quannis, Toyota,
Google at Sansisco, Disney Air France, kalam I Kia. The
stolen data reportedly includes customer dates of birth, passport numbers,
(18:41):
and purchase histories collected over the past eighteen months or so.
The data is expected or they have threatened. Our friend
Barry Aie Scattered Laps of Dollar Hunters has threatened to
put it on the dark Web from about now. The
massive attacks show that once again the most at risk
(19:02):
part of a company's technology security is human interaction. In
this instance, rather than actually hacking salesforces systems, they exploited
the human element. They basically ring them up and convinced
them to download a tool. What I must say with
my story and Adam's story, it is the human intervention
(19:24):
where things go wrong. But I actually feel very very
sorry for the individual humans involved, because at the end
of the day, optics need to have processes in place
that one individual can't be at fault. Same deal with
all these large corporates like Quantus, Toyota, Google, et cetera. Now,
without knowing the absolute detail, it's hard to see what happened,
(19:46):
but I do feel sorry for the individuals.
Natalie MacDonald (19:48):
Nat So I mentioned that Michael had encouraged me to
deduct points.
Sean Aylmer (19:57):
I'm not since when you mean this, Michael, this is
a really good point.
Natalie MacDonald (20:04):
No, So I did consider because Adam, this is in
fact the second story that you have used Parliament, and
so as far as you know, bringing something fresh to
the table. Now, I'm not going to detract because frankly
that's cruel and also that does feel like I would
just be listening to Michael just that touch too much,
(20:25):
but I just can't.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
I can't do it.
Natalie MacDonald (20:28):
But I am going with Sean on this one. I
think it's really incredible when you have a group of
Steve's I'm going to call them because I can't pronounce,
because I can't pronounce their scattered lap, you know, because
this is a group that's claimed responsibility for hacks on
(20:49):
overseas organizations as well, Marks and Spencer, Jaguar, Landrover in
the UK. Additionally, and now you've got forty companies around
the world who are all kind of at the behest.
I also really find it interesting salesforce is refusing to engage.
They're not negotiating, they're not paying any form of extortion demand.
(21:11):
So where do you go from here? You know, realistically,
I just think it's fascinating. I think, as you both mentioned,
you know, the human error impact of this, it is
becoming more and more common. This morning, I was definitely
sent something by my dad that was absolutely going to
steal all of my bank details.
Sean Aylmer (21:32):
And there's just your father liked that generally.
Natalie MacDonald (21:35):
No, no, In fact, he'll probably tell you it's a
lifetime a bit of the other way around me trying
to steal his.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
But it really really continues to.
Natalie MacDonald (21:44):
Bring to the fore the fact that there needs to
be greater systems put to put in place to protect
consumers and to protect Australians and protect our data.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
So in this instance, Sean gets it.
Sean Aylmer (21:56):
Excellent judgment to Nana. Good Oh dear, well, we go
to our favorite story. I think it's my turn to
go first. I'll jump in. I every time this happens
every year, I really like it. It's the Times ranking
of universities, and particularly the Australian universities. Six ozsie unis
(22:18):
were ranked in the top one hundred worldwide, ten in
the top two hundred. University in Melbourne rated the best
Australian instituted ranked globally thirty seven, up from thirty nine.
Achieved near per scores for research excellence and influence as
well as teaching quality. A good friend of mine, Micky Coelli,
is an academic down there, So go Mick. Australia's oldest institution,
(22:41):
the University of Sydney, went from sixty one to fifty three.
Monash's at fifty eight. Australian National University University in New
South Wales, Union of Queensland all in that top one hundred.
Just to fill out the story, Oxford in England tops
the world rankings. One for you, Natalie, Massachusetts Institute of
Technology m I team in the US and Boston that's
number two, and then Princeton and Cambridge come in at
(23:03):
equal three. Why it's my favorite story. The better Australian
university is doing these times rankings, the more opportunity they
have to attract foreign students. Given what's going on in
the US at the moment, and we see federal funding
for universities being collapsed as they reach out to more
(23:24):
foreign students, that provides an opportunity not just for the
UK universities, but Australian universities as well. We have a
comparative advantage in being an English speaking country, which seems
to be the favored language to learn in. We also
have these great institutions that can export, so when someone
(23:45):
comes into this country does university course, that's an export.
We're still about thirty five billion dollars of higher education
exports a year already and this is a massive, massive
opportunity for US and the further up the rankings, the
local university is the be the opportunity. My favorite story
Adam Sean.
Speaker 5 (24:06):
It's a brilliant story about a multi billion dollar industry.
But how about we step up the game a little to.
Sean Aylmer (24:12):
The Trilivel's ledg from Adam unheard of go on.
Speaker 5 (24:16):
While many many turned into global markets and our winter
football codes are over, Australian too a back, spending their
springtime watching, investing, and buying property In September National September
National home values rose zero point eight percent in that
month alone, reaching a median of eight hundred and fifty
(24:37):
seven two hundred and eighty dollars, marking the fastest monthly gain.
Adam Lang (24:41):
In a year.
Speaker 5 (24:42):
According to Cotality, quarterly values increased two point two percent,
with broad gains across the cities. The capital cities including
Brisbane Serves one point two per one point six, Sydney
zero point eight and Melbourne zero point five. At the
same time, median rents in capital cities passed se seven
hundred dollars a week for the first time, with rents
(25:03):
up nearly forty four percent over five years. These numbers
tell a story of property scarcity, limited listings and increasing population,
surging demand and rising borrowing capacity are pushing prices up.
In a world of instability, property still remains Australia's most
consistent bet. That's why housing continues to be more than
(25:23):
a story as a national asset cost felt in every
hip pocket. Whether it's the worry about rent or the
hope of home ownership, property binds us all where and
the way it flourishes.
Sean Aylmer (25:35):
What's with it? You know, whether it's the worry about
my going to home ownership, property binds us all deductions and.
Speaker 5 (25:44):
I'll continue where how and the way in which we
all live starts and finishes every day. And that is
why this is my favorite story of the week. The
opportunity is huge and important to fix it.
Sean Aylmer (25:57):
The opportunity is for Natalie to deduct points from the
garbage that's going on.
Natalie MacDonald (26:02):
Here is Michael in the room with us.
Speaker 6 (26:07):
I'm so that was so Michael esque in its delivery,
although actually he would probably still be talking admittedly.
Sean Aylmer (26:21):
A few times today, but that's the worst one. You
are turning into Michael Sewan.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
And also, to be honest stories aside.
Natalie MacDonald (26:29):
Adam gets this mainly because then the nicest man in
media offering the rarest sledge of all time basically, like, basically,
he gets it.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
And I did say that I have my criteria storytelling
was was one of them ignored?
Natalie MacDonald (26:49):
That's because they're my criteria, Sean. I can change them
at will, but I think I don't. So, yes, Adam
does get this. But Sean and your story around education,
I do think the university thing is really really really interesting.
I think increasingly, if you look at universities and even
(27:09):
you know, private school systems, foreign student numbers are their
pathway to financial success, like that is just becoming increasingly
important to them. My concern though, is then what that
does do for citizens, for residents and in terms of
education pathways for residents of those countries who are being
(27:31):
priced out essentially or who are being pushed out due
to that duty.
Sean Aylmer (27:37):
Maybe that's Cain Region, maybe that's Oxford. But here in Australia,
don't you worry about it. Plenty a place if you'll
find you will find room.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
Still take you be that, be that, be that as
it may.
Natalie MacDonald (27:51):
Sean, Adam gets this property property win every every time,
and also sledging. Sledging wins every every time.
Sean Aylmer (28:01):
Also, well, I'm happy to concede purely on the sledging
on Adam, like, I'm not happy to concede on the story.
So does that mean we're at to Were you giving
points by any chance during that matter?
Speaker 5 (28:13):
On?
Speaker 4 (28:13):
No, I wasn't. No, it does it puts it puts you.
It puts you at a.
Natalie MacDonald (28:18):
Draw, which actually Adam may remember that was how Michael
and I were left hanging.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
How How does it feel.
Adam Lang (28:27):
Strangely unsatisfied?
Speaker 4 (28:31):
Now?
Speaker 5 (28:31):
You know?
Natalie MacDonald (28:32):
No, great great battle gentlemen, I'm.
Sean Aylmer (28:36):
Really keen to be judge at some point, all that
you could come do the show and I can be
judged because I think the judge has so much power. Like,
neither Adam nor I are happy at the moment, but
we're not sad either.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
No, but you enjoyed the experience.
Sean Aylmer (28:59):
Thank you so so much for coming on. Remember everyone
working at IT get it. What's the best way to
get in touch with you?
Speaker 4 (29:06):
That there's this little thing called LinkedIn.
Natalie MacDonald (29:11):
I can be found by Bill Bye blue button.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
Sean.
Natalie MacDonald (29:17):
You probably don't even remember how to spell LinkedIn. It's
been spend that long, you know. You can find me
on LinkedIn. Oh, you can find me at www. Dot
working at it, dot com dot au.
Sean Aylmer (29:30):
Fantastic Matt, thanks for joining us this morning.
Speaker 5 (29:32):
Thanks for having me, Thank you Adam, thank you Sean,
and thank you DaLie.
Sean Aylmer (29:35):
Make sure you're following the podcast. Join us online on LinkedIn, LinkedIn, LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok,
Facebook and X Did I get it right now? LinkedIn?
Did I mention? I think I got to work with it.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
I think you spooze it in that.
Sean Aylmer (29:48):
I'm sure I am. That was the weekend edition by
Fear and Greek Business Views. We hope you have a
great weekend.
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