June 10, 2025 • 36 mins
George is joined by Preston Mitchum, a queer civil rights attorney and activist based in DC. Preston talks about his complex experience working at the Trevor Project, clashing with a local gay bar over its racism, and what it’s like to be the only queer cast member on a reality TV set.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Some people just don't feel empowered to speak And yes,
I don't know what it is about people like us,
but like I cannot work in a place that I
don't feel safe enough to call out the nonsense. Yeah,
and I don't care how big or small.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
This is.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Preston Mitcham an attorney, activist, and a reality TV star.
Preston was the first openly LGBTQ chair of the Washington
Bar Association Young Lawyer's Division.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
Preston is also one of my best friends.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
And one thing I can tell you about Preston is
that he is not afraid to speak up and that
has gotten him in trouble as you're hearing this episode,
but he can't help it, whether it's calling out a
homophobic bar or pointing out the bias of the nonprofit sector.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
At the end of the day, it's like, it's also
a danger for me to speak up. I just don't
know another way. Like I'm like, this is wrong, and
we all see it's wrongs.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Like.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Singing in them heavy handed with the world.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Take a super brandy and you spoken guy, you know
what the plan is, or became a Latin.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
You know one does understand me.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
My name is George M. Johnson.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
I am the New York Times best selling author of
the book All Boys Aren't Blue, which is the number
one most challenged book in the United States. This is
Fighting Words, a show where we take you to the
front lines of the culture wars with the people who
are using their words to make change and who refuse
to be silenced. Today's guest Preston Mitcham.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Maybe light what's up?
Speaker 3 (01:44):
I am here today with someone who the world probably
knows because Preston Mitcham is super a memorable these days.
But I know Preston Mitcham as my best friend, and
so I want to welcome Preston to Fighting Words.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
How are you doing today?
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Hey boo, I am I'm doing good. I was joking.
I was like, the weather in DC is pretty.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Bad right now.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
So I don't know, if you know, if maybe some
of the conservatives may be more right than I like.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
About God in the gays.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
But but I'm still gonna celebrate DC Black Pride this week.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
So I'm good.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Yes, as we are recording this episode, we're getting ready
for DC Pride. But to get us started with this episode,
same way we start every episode, I feel like people
assume who we are based off of our public personas
social media, but a lot of times we don't get
the chance to tell people who we are. So I
would like for you to tell everybody who is Preston
mitchem Oh.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
I am, you know, confused every day about who I am.
To be honest, like you know, I'm not justin in forever,
Like I know, I know enough shot about no shot
out to do. So I know who I am, right,
but I but there are parts where I'm confused on
identifying myself as a different thing every single day.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
So I will say I am a I.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Always will start off at least with unapologetically black and
queer civil rights attorney and advocate based in Washington, d C.
I am fiercely loyal to my friends and community. I'm
a fiance planning a wedding this October. I'm a traveler,
someone who dares to dream differently, someone who leans into discomfort,
(03:28):
someone who formerly had about and maybe even in the
future on a reality TV show on Bravo. Yeah, I
think that is not about something. Oh, and I'm a
Nellie's hater. So Nelli's sports ball in Washington, d C
will forever be known as anti president.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yes, so yes, all the things that make me me. Yes.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Now in mind you we used to have great times
at Nellie's, but we did.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
We used to really have great times.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Sunday Funday used to be a thing until it became
not a thing. Let's talk about Nellie's because why don't
we start there. It is me and Preston's twelve year
anniversary will be yep in a couple of days, and
Nellie's was one.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Of the places we used to go to.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
But Preston does a lot of activism work for those
who don't know. But Nellie's has had and not just Nelly's,
would say, a string of DC bars have had a
lot of issues surrounding racism in the way that they
treat black queer patrons versus the way that they treat
the white queer, well white gay patrons because they're not queer.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
So why don't we talk just a little bit about
Like you've done a lot of work.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
In DC to try and create safe spaces for black
cord people, So let's just talk to us a little
bit about that work, and like the history of like
Nelly's and like all of the things that you know,
just you've tried to create for Black Cord people to
have safe spaces.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Yeah, and I appreciate that set up, George, because I
think people oftentimes get confused about the issues of a
lot of these bars, right, Like, I have reconciled the
fact that I think many people want to go through
these bars because they just want to drink, right, They
want to have a good time. And you know, I've
realized that after a while. My goal is not to
say I'm going to dislike you or be disappointed into you.
(05:16):
If you go go right like that is sure, that's
what you've decided to do. As for me, it became
clear to me years ago that I cared deeply about
where I was spending my money, especially at a place
like a bar or restaurant, something that we have many
of in DC, and you can kind of pick and choose.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Where you want to go.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
And so like these bars that are been blatantly racist,
right some of the other ones that have been blatantly homophobic,
you name it, I am not going to spend my
money there, especially if I know the owner knows about
what's happening and does not care and it's disrespectful about it.
So Nelly's was an interesting case because you know, as
you said, you and I used to go multiple times
(05:58):
a week.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yes, right, it was.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
It was the place that we really Yeah, it was
like after work where you want to meet up.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Why we've been asking that question. We know where we're going.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
And they also had good food.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Yeah they did those chicken wings. If there's anything I
missed chicken wings and Mazzarellas thins. But but you know,
it was a good space.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
It was a good place. Cheaper drink. Yeah, we weren't.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
It was like we weren't checked the check but it
was like I had to check my check.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Look close enough.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Look, look, I'm like, let me check my bank account
out every day every day.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yeah, at that stage of let me look at you.
So Netley's was that spot.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
And I think after a while you and I started
to not maybe not even blatantly, but I think notice
that there were different responses that bartenders far backs even,
but really the security started to treat black patrons versus
white patrons. It could be around service, how quick people
were being service. It could be about how disrespectful of
(07:00):
the bartenders blatantly were.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Was the they raised the price of henna correct and
like drinks that they thought black patrons drank more. They
started to raise the price of and then they switched
us from glassware to plastic war to.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Plastic wear yep on that I remember came the most.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
H and I remember distinctly you and I talking about
this and it just being a thing like, let's just
play it out. And then there started to be fights
at Nellie's Right, which you know, but I realized quickly
that the fights were only happening at Nellie's Right, and
you know, it made me realize that there is a
reason why people are choosing this venue to fight at consistently. Now,
(07:44):
white folks, white gay folks would also fight, yes, but
the responses from security.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Will be drastic, way different.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Right, Black queer patrons would be thrown out immediately, cops called.
You would never be able to re enter again, at
the very least be able to couldn't come in for months.
The white gay people would barely be thrown out.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
But we watched the one time when they didn't throw
themither of them out, and we were like, yeah, it
was one time.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
I will never forget.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
A white lesbian woman was like fighting like four different
people and they were.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Just like, you just need to cool off. What do
you mean, what do you mean cool off?
Speaker 1 (08:23):
So I called a meeting with a few activists in
DC and the owner of Nelly's, Doug Chance, and his
then manager then Brett, and we were all talking to
your point, George. This is when he became clearly racist.
And his response, we only have all these fights on Sundays,
when you all come the most. We need to not.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Sell Hennessy anymore.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
We're no longer going to have a DJ since you
all are fighting with rap music playing.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
It wasn't even coded language, right.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Some people were like, oh, you know, the language was
so cold it as a butter knife.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
No, this was a.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
Knife, yea.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Like he was very plear about how he felt. And
you know, I wrote a four page letter. Yeah, and
this was twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen. I was angry enough.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
I came home.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
I wrote and wrote and wrote literally listed on what
went wrong, what happened, how we could have done better.
And I posted this letter on Facebook and then I
went to band. I woke up to hundreds and hundreds
of shares, hundreds of comments, thousands of likes, and I'm
like Okay, this took off in a way I did
not anticipate.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
But a lot of the comments were people.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yes, some were blaming black folks because that's what anti
blackness does for you.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
But a lot of people, the majority of.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
People were also sharing their negative experiences at Nelly's. Yeah,
and so you know, but it was a trend at
this time, right, But Nelly's never got better. And then
even after we stopped going to Nelly's, and then you know,
people have amnesia, people start going again, and then a
security drag a black woman down the steps by her
hair right during COVID and I was during Pride months
(09:57):
in twenty twenty one, So I will never again. I'm
pretty sure there's a wanted sign of my face by
the security, right, But it's safe spaces are just so
important to me, Like, I can't believe any of us
honestly would even go to a place that has a
bevy of racism and other allegations. I mean, they've lost
(10:17):
their liquor license so many times. Yeah, yes, and I
just personally can't find the joy there when we have
other I don't know if people know this DC has
like thirteen queer bars. It's not because it's the dearth
of places, like rightly we have many, but you know,
you do get accustomed to what you're accustomed to, and that,
I guess makes people feel good. I certainly am no
(10:39):
longer frustrated with the people who decide to go. I
think my role at this point is just to make
sure people know that there are additional places they can
go to, and that people know the history to then
inform their judgment about whether they still decide to go
or not.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
So to get more into Preston, you also have to
know that President is also an attorney. So like I
spent a lot of money on degrees I don't use
because I have one in finance and I have one
of human resources manage my master's in Human resource management.
And then I started writing books and articles and doing things.
Oh also, President is the first person whoever told me
to write, so we'll write, okay, And I was like
(11:26):
okay and ran with it and now look where we
are period like, And that was also twelve years ago
in junior in a bar, yes number nine, number nine,
when Preston had just wrote an article for Empty magazine
that came out. It was an amazing article and I
was just super excited and was like, well, I want
to write and was like, we'll right. I was like okay,
(11:48):
and I'll started writing. But president's an attorney. I used
to call Preston or text present. It's a funny aside.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
I love Law and Order, me and my mother.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
That was our show, and I would like text press
like is this weird? Like wait, Jack McCoy just did
it's like no.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
Like yours Prudence or this like the term, and I
was like okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
I just was wondering, like could this happen because we're
watching this case of Law Order, Like George.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
What has that been like for you?
Speaker 3 (12:18):
You know, being a black queer attorney, someone who has
had several positions, including my i'le make a joke. My
team listed the Trevor Project, but I was like, oh,
they don't know.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Okay, that is.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Right.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
But it's like shout out to my team who was
like like, what is the Trevor Like, ask what the
Trevor Project is. I'm like, okay, I asked what the
answer is about to be tea so because we went
to war with the Trevor Project. Okay, but actually I
do want you to speak to like how you end
up in like these positions sometimes that feel like, Okay,
(13:01):
we broken like a ceiling somewhere, we now have a
black person, a queer person in a really important position
that possibly could make change. And then you start to see, oh,
this was not about change, this was about something totally different.
And so cause you talk about like just your experience
with the Trevor Project, because it's correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
Did the Trevor Project do the suicide hotline for.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Lgb That was actually that was like your your work,
your work, and your project to talk about that.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
So let's start there. You're at the Travel Project.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
You care helped create this u the nine eight eight
suicide hotline for LGBTQ youth as a way to fight
back and as a way to again create a safe
space for our community. So talk about that, and then
talk about like going from that to this transition where
you start to realize like, oh, this project called Trevor
(13:56):
ain't it?
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yeah? No, right, right, right.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
It's interesting because I think the Trevor Project and I
thought and I still think, just to be clear that
the Trevor Project is an important, necessary organization for LGBTQ
plus use.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
I will always still tell people to call.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Not only ninety eight, but if they're too busy to
really contact the crisis counselor of the Trevor Project, because
that is what we have available to us. Yeah, and
I do think when someone is experiencing a crisis, they
have to call someone, should should call someone. So, you know,
when I started with the Trevor Project, it was clear
to me that there were not a lot of people
of color there, particularly in more leadership positions. You know,
(14:43):
when I was there, I started off as a director
of Government of advocacating government affairs, and I was one
of few spokespeople at Trevor already and then certainly one
of maybe two or.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Three people of color who were spokespeople there.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
And you know, ninety eight is your it is it
is now ninety eight started a couple of years ago,
but it's the number to reach a national suicide and
crisis lifeline.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
But formerly it was a longer form number.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
And the conversation was like, well, if someone experiencing a crisis,
that we should give them something that's short, easy to
use and remember. So I will say my first start
at Trevor Project was interesting because I remember having a
previous boss who was like, you know, it's like nine
one one for mental health, and I'm like, no, no,
actually right, but that that already kind of caught me
(15:32):
off guard in my first month there, right, Like, if
we're framing something that's nomine one for mental health, I
already know as a black queer person, that's a myst
and a mixed message, right, Like most people don't trust
nine to one one, right, Most people don't trust police
and law enforcement coming even during emergencies, especially during emergencies,
(15:52):
And so I'm like, if you call that not one
one for mental health, that I understand the comms perspective
of what you're trying to do. There many communities that
actually will automatically distrust this number because of how you're
framing it.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
And so thankfully I convinced them to walk it back.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
You know.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
So I will say in the beginning, I was, okay,
I feel listen to there are things that I feel
it heard, and a lot of community trusted me because
they were like, oh, we thought Trevor Project was just
the white people, right, but now that you work there, Okay,
So there were some ways, you know, people could have
took that the opposite. They could have been like, oh,
Preston now wants to work with the white people. It
(16:28):
was the opposite. It was oh my god, now that
president is working with them. Now I feel like there
is he's vouching for them. And you know, I think
the longer I stayed there, the more it broke my
heart because what I was hearing is rumors I experienced personally.
So I, with the help of many others, of course,
ended up getting the Trevor Project appropriated twenty nine million
(16:52):
dollars specifically for LGBTQU plus specialized services through Congress. Now
what people do not know is this legend called the
National Suicide Hotline Designation Act past during Trump's first term
in office. Yes, so the president who signed nine to
eight on was President Trump, Yes, one point zero.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yeah. So it's also interesting.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Now that you know RFK Junior is you know, during
elaked HHS budget specifically said they're going to remove specialized
services just for LGBTQ youth. Yes, right, because another specialized
group is actually the veterans, and they were able to
keep all their funding. So it is definitely a target
to LGBTQ plus youth specifically, and so you know, again
(17:35):
I was able to do a lot that that was
ninety percent of my work was making sure it was funded,
making sure there were no cracks in the hot line.
I'm still on nine of eight working groups to this day,
actually doing a lot of work on suicide prevention through
the Suicide Prevention Resource Center, through Vibrant Emotional Health, which
is actually the administrator of the lifeline with SAMSA. But
you know, the Trevor Project also taught me, unfortunately, that
(17:58):
there was a lot of of anti black racism that
a lot of people were experiences. There were just no
clear reasons why some black folks were not getting promoted.
You know, there were assessments based on like worker satisfaction
surveys that most workers of color did not feel good
working there, right, and that's including crisis counselors, right.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
Yeah, And this.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Was during like just to be clear, under a previous CEO,
not the current CEO. But Trevor at this point has
had like three or four layoffs.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
Like massive layoffs.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
If you search the Trevor Project, for sure, you will
see a lot of the exposs from people telling dissatisfied,
having complaints of racism, ableism, transphobia in some instances. And
again I want to be clear that none of that
is to say that it is.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Like the worst org in the world.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
But I also reco because there's just a nonprofit, right,
and that's just what happens in a nonprofit industrial complex.
Like you could say a lot of good feelings and
good missions and then do things that are shitty outside.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
So I'm always inflicted.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
And how I discussed it because you know, I'm like,
on one hand, I think it is probably the best
most impactful work.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I've done in my career.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Yeah, and I had to leave because it was literally
impacting my own mental health, which is ironic considering the organization.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
The organization.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, and that's tough. I've worked
in nonprofits as well. Shout out to us helping us
we all. I think anyone who's worked nonprofit, you're like,
typically the work that you're doing is also like the
thing that feels like it may be harming you.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
So many of the places have done for the Trevor Pobjects,
specifically from the Washington Blade to Los Angeles Blade to
the Washington Post did a few articles about Trevor around
like financial woes around just staff complaints. I mean we
effectively had a coup to get the other CEO removed. Yes,
(19:57):
I realized, if I'm being honest, that there was a
tar go to my back after a while when I
was asked to speak to the entire staff this wee.
We were still a staff of maybe three point fifty
and I was asked to speak to staff. And I
will never forget this moment. Everyone kept leaving messages, pressing
for the next CEO, pressing for the next CEO and baby.
(20:17):
Some people did not like that. Some people did not
like that. But I was really well liked among staff.
The staff really wanted it. Like it was very clear
from a staff perspective. But you know, staff, ironically enough
don't always matter in the workplace. But it's hard to
count the tea leaves, but I certainly can sometimes.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
And I was like, it is, It's gonna be my
time to go.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
But you know what, I run into a staff, former
staff and current staff at Chever all the time still,
and none of them ever tell me I'm wrong because
they always knew that I was not. Some people just
don't feel empowered to speak. And yes, I don't know
what it is about people like us. But like, I
cannot work in a place that I don't feel safe
enough to call out the nonsense. And I don't care
(21:04):
how big or small, and so to your point of
my even my career trajectory, like I have been blessed
to have really good positions, but it didn't start out
that way, but like really good positions where I'm like,
I'm sorry, these organizations have largely been seventy eighty ninety
percent white, yeah, or at the very least seventy eighty
ninety percent white women, and underpaying black staff, not promoting
(21:30):
black staff or even their queer staff, well sometimes especially
black and queer staff, And so you know, I'm like, yeah,
the options for many people are just to be quiet
and do their work and just move on. And I'm like,
I actively believe my purpose is to make places better
before I leave, right, And if that means like causing
(21:51):
a fissure or at least calling out the fissure that
exists already that people are quiet about, then so be it, right,
you know, And I realize that people they may not
tell you, but people really people respect it because they
fundamentally know that they can't do it, right, Maybe they're
not in a position to do it, they don't feel
in power to do it. But I'm like, none of
y'all scare me, So I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
You become the voice for so many people who feel
like they're they're silenced.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Right. I can't imagine going to a place that I
hate it, knowing how terrible it is and just going
along with my day. Like I understand that it's also
a privileging statement, right, because there is something to be
said around.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Having to be quiet.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
But also at the end of the day, it's like
it's also a danger for me to speak up. I
just don't know another way. Like I like, I'm like,
this is wrong, and we all see it's wrong.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Right, because it's like the other option is not better
in my mind, So speaking up is the best thing
I could do.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Absolutely, absolutely, Now.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Back to my conversation with Preston Mitcham, let's talk about
you on television, Okay, So for those for those who
don't know, Preston was the only gay cast member on
Summer's House Summer House.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
I said, summers, Well, I'm black.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
We're gonna put black Summer House, right, So I'm gonna
put as you know, I say Krogers whatever.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
So it's like, I'm gonna put.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
As on something summer Summer House of Martha's Vineyard. It
was on air for two seasons, was wildly popular.
Speaker 4 (23:49):
Shout out to Bravo. Do you do an unshout out
to Bravo.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
I don't know anyway, Shout out to Bravo for giving
us the show, but also like I need try to
bring it back. But what was that like, right, like,
because we don't want we don't have a whole lot
of black queer people in general and on TV shows
or in media. You know, we have Dremel Simon, who's
on the Upshaws and like, who's a pretty recognizable face. Oh,
(24:13):
we do have Bobby Like, who's actually been pretty decent
on love and hip hop. So it's like we're starting
to see a little bit of queer representation. But you
were like a different type of queer representation because you
stood on business but you also educated really political. What
did it feel like to be like the only black
person in the house, but also to be the breakout
(24:34):
star of the show, like everybody knows it, like you
were the star of the show.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Yeah, you know, I feel like you expected me to
be the star, but I certainly did not expect that,
Like I think that, Yeah, that was the thing that
shocked me probably the most. But I will say I
had two mindsets. One it was beautiful, like I never
deeply desired to be on reality TV. But when it
came more into fruition, I was like, this is weird
(24:59):
because I just happened to be on the Vineyard when
the opportunity kind of presented itself. It wasn't like we
submitted audition tapes or anything like that. It was really
divine timing and being quite literally.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
At the right place in the right time.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
So it was beautiful because you know, I was like, Wow,
this is a chance to really build my platform, my brand,
Like you know, Santana, for example, is not about to
just like watch my speeches, but he may watch a
reality show. And so I always thought about, like, how
do you get to the people who you can talk to?
You can get on your side, you can expand your platform,
(25:35):
you can build this reach and then be like, hey,
you know, have we talked about LGBTQ equality. Have we
talked about equity? Have we talked about abortion right? And
that's kind of how I always looked at it. On
the flip side, it was also a big burden, like
it was, you know, to be the only in any
room is nothing I ever desire, right, And so I
(25:55):
know there are many people respectfully or disrespect all the times,
who love being the only in the room. Like they
thurvive off of it. They thrive off of creating a
space that looks just like them and only them. And
that is the most discomforting thing in my life. And
I would never want to be the only. In fact,
I used to always like say to even like cast and.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Crew, like, what are other gay people at? Right? Where
are we like at least one more?
Speaker 1 (26:24):
And that's the thing the audience even suggested, right, the
audist is even like, oh, I just want press on
have another queer person in his house, right, like another person?
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Because you know, there were moments I.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Think it read that you could tell I was actually
annoyed because of certain words being used, things seen and unseen.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
But you know, so again it was beautiful, but it
was a burden.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
But I will say, what I'm grateful for more than
anything is to have people like me and still come
up to me daily just telling me how much they
could tell I was not fake on the show, and
how much they could tell I was like, I ain't
doing that or or just trying.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
To build community even among everyone.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
But when I tell you, I have multiple times certain
people saying like you were to start that show, don't
I don't care, don't let nobody tell you different, Like
that show could not be what it is without you
being here, right, And I really appreciate that.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
Yeah, So what's the filming? Like what is it like?
Because like we get.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
An hour of y'all right, and what y'all see in
the world is twelve weeks of television, but it was
really all shot in twelve days, right or fourteen days?
How much time are y'all actually like filming? And like
like where you're like, damn is the camera still on me?
Like when do we get a break?
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Like what did it?
Speaker 4 (27:41):
I actually like to be in the pressure cooker.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
So I'll tell you this.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
It's the reason why it was easy for me to
genuinely not be mad at fans when I saw their
commentary about anything happening is because I, first of all
think that's the point of reality TV. It is quite
literally supposed to trick you into believing that that is
exactly what is happening as it happened.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Now, there's some truth to that, right, There's absolutely some truth.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Like, if you can build the consistency in that way,
it's because you gave them that much to build. So
whenever I see someone being like, I'm not a villain,
I'm like, maybe not, but you gave them enough villain commentary, right,
And it was easy to build that up from that.
And I should say there are moments that are just
blatantly not how it happened, right, And so there are
some times where it gets a little frustrating from some
(28:30):
customer's perspectives because they are trying to actually share what
they know happen from their experience.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
But also fans don't want to hear that. Ye.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Fans LARGELYE wants you to accept their version of what
everyone saw as the only reality to happen. So you
kind of have to eat your own salt from that point,
and you can't be mad at fans because that is
what showcase, right. So in terms of filming, it was
kind of wild season one, especially because people don't know
I was not supposed to be there the whole time,
(29:00):
But you know, your girl showed up, so like they
was so sad, but that is what happened, honestly, you know.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
They were like, hey, we need you to stay for us.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
We would like but we film about thirteen to fourteen
days and it is sunlight to sundown, right sun up
to sunset, and you get up in the morning and
you know that this is actually what you learn too.
You're not even supposed to talk to anyone on cast
until your mic So there will be moments. There will
(29:34):
be moments I would have no micael because I'm just
waking up in the morning.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
I never even thought about that.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Yeah, so I would wake up, it'd be like eight
in the morning.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
I'm like running to get coffee there, but like good morning press,
and I'm like, and you do that because you're trying
to tell them, like you're just patting yourself to say
I don't have a mic one just so they don't
think you're bearing rude to them. But you're like, I
can't talk right now, and even then they'll be like,
be quiet.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
So I find something like that because why don't you forget?
Speaker 1 (30:01):
And there will be one moment I was in the
middle of the kitchen with the mere season one. We
were talking for like twenty solid minutes and they were like, Crusten,
are your mic?
Speaker 2 (30:07):
I said, oh, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
And now back to my conversation with Preston Mitchem. As
we get to the close of this show, we always
do two segments. I used to have a column called
George's Tired Wife, write every week about what I was
tired about. I think this week, I'm just tired of
daylight Saving Time? Like, can we just get rid of it?
I feel like the conversation keeps coming up and it's like, okay,
(31:07):
but like because of who our president is, the world
already thinks we're dumb. But then when we try to
be like, no, we're really not dumb, and it's like,
but you have daylight saving time, it's like, oh, yeah,
we are dumb. Like we have a state called Kansas,
and then the other one that has Kansas in the
name we call Arkansas. So it's like, yeah, y'all are
like come on, like right, like get off fit. So
(31:27):
I just think I'm and things that make America look dumb. Right,
It's like the president makes us look dumb. Please start
calling it our Kansas. Can we just like, can we not.
Is there anything that you are tired of for the week.
I'm sored of this weather right now.
Speaker 4 (31:46):
That's somebody else brought that up to like the weather,
like the weather is just not weather written.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Yeah, Like I know it's people's fault, like it's our fault.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
It's our fault, right, be very because we don't believe
in science, and stop making America look dumb.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Like the nature is just nature because she's sick of
she is tired, she's sighed. So I get it. But
I'm just like I've been good mother nature. Why I
gotta deal with these people?
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Right?
Speaker 3 (32:10):
Final thing is I always like for people to leave,
like just some words for other people to follow by
people know. My favorite quote is Tony Morrison's there's a
book you want to read and hasn't been written yet
the gamus write it. I give myself mantras every year
to live by. Last year was be undeniable, This year
scorch to earth because that's just.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Where we're at.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
Are there any words that you're living by for twenty
twenty five? And what do you see next?
Speaker 1 (32:34):
For Preston Mischam, the words I have been living by
since January first is remember who you were doing it for.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
And remember why you're doing it.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
I remember just having a moment where I'm like, I
feel so sagnant, Like it felt like nothing was moving,
and I just felt like I was just waking up
and going to sleep, Like every day felt like groundhowks.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Like I felt like I was not loved.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
It's probably a hard way to put it, because I
know I'm always abundantly loved, but it just felt like
there was no growth in anything I was touching or
doing that no one was really seeing my work in
the way that I wanted them to see it. And
that is what I'm reminding myself of that it's okay
at this point, and I am just remembering why I'm
doing it, who I'm doing it for. What's next is
(33:24):
a lot of things, like I am still, you know,
being vented for TV projects. I am going to get
this book out in a couple of years. If it
kills me, well hopefully it does.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Not kill me.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Will not kill me, but I will be getting this
book out and really just expanding my own brand, my businesses.
I'm looking forward to my wedding, looking forward to us
celebrating the Bachelor trip.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
I if y'all didn't know.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
George is my best person at my wedding. Yes, I'm
honestly just excited for what's next. Like this is one
of the first time in years, and I'm like, I
am going to make this the best moments of my life.
I don't care what the day looks like. And I
am so grateful for being able to say that now,
because if you asked me a couple years ago, I
would have never been able to say that.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Yeah, amazing, Preston, Thank you for being on fighting words.
Speaker 4 (34:14):
I love you, love you, I will see you soon.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Yes, everybody, Preston mitcham and you can follow Preston on Instagram.
Speaker 4 (34:23):
Is your stuff still at preson misson.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Uh president dot mitchum, but literally everywhere at this point
you on Twitter still or ex whatever they're calling it now, threats,
Instagram and TikTok.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
All right, I was going to die, if not sooner
than later, whether or not I had ever spoken myself.
My silences had not protected me. Your silence would not
protect you. This is a quote from the black lesbian
(34:57):
poet and feminist activists Audrey Lord. Born in a West
Indian family in New York City. In nineteen thirty four.
Lord started writing poems when she was only twelve years old.
She always believed that language and knowledge are transformative and
that silence is a form of violence. In a famous
talk that she gave at NYU at nineteen seventy nine,
(35:19):
entitled the Master's Tools will Not Dismantle the Master's House,
she condemned the feminist movement in the US for representing
a mostly white and straight point of view. For Lord,
black and lesbian perspectives are not just minor differences to
be tolerated, they are necessary sources of knowledge and power
for the feminist.
Speaker 4 (35:38):
Movement to thrive.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Lord passed away in nineteen ninety two after a second
bout of breast cancer. Shortly before her death, she took
the name Gamba Adisa, meaning warrior, she who makes her
meaning known. Fighting Words is a production of iHeart Podcasts
(36:06):
in partnership with BET's Case Studios. I'm Georgiam Johnson. This
episode was produced by Charlotte Morley. Execution producers are myself
and Twiggy Puchi Guar Song with Adam Pinks and Brick
Cats for Best Case Studios. The theme song was written
and composed by Kole Vas Bambianna and myself. Original music
(36:27):
by Klevas. This episode was edited and scored.
Speaker 4 (36:31):
By Max Michael Miller.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Carl Ketel following
rape Fighting Words Wherever you get your podcast
Some people just don't feel empowered to speak And yes,
I don't know what it is about people like us,
but like I cannot work in a place that I
don't feel safe enough to call out the nonsense. Yeah,
and I don't care how big or small.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
This is.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Preston Mitcham an attorney, activist, and a reality TV star.
Preston was the first openly LGBTQ chair of the Washington
Bar Association Young Lawyer's Division.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
Preston is also one of my best friends.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
And one thing I can tell you about Preston is
that he is not afraid to speak up and that
has gotten him in trouble as you're hearing this episode,
but he can't help it, whether it's calling out a
homophobic bar or pointing out the bias of the nonprofit sector.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
At the end of the day, it's like, it's also
a danger for me to speak up. I just don't
know another way. Like I'm like, this is wrong, and
we all see it's wrongs.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Like.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Singing in them heavy handed with the world.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Take a super brandy and you spoken guy, you know
what the plan is, or became a Latin.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
You know one does understand me.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
My name is George M. Johnson.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
I am the New York Times best selling author of
the book All Boys Aren't Blue, which is the number
one most challenged book in the United States. This is
Fighting Words, a show where we take you to the
front lines of the culture wars with the people who
are using their words to make change and who refuse
to be silenced. Today's guest Preston Mitcham.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Maybe light what's up?
Speaker 3 (01:44):
I am here today with someone who the world probably
knows because Preston Mitcham is super a memorable these days.
But I know Preston Mitcham as my best friend, and
so I want to welcome Preston to Fighting Words.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
How are you doing today?
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Hey boo, I am I'm doing good. I was joking.
I was like, the weather in DC is pretty.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Bad right now.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
So I don't know, if you know, if maybe some
of the conservatives may be more right than I like.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
About God in the gays.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
But but I'm still gonna celebrate DC Black Pride this week.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
So I'm good.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Yes, as we are recording this episode, we're getting ready
for DC Pride. But to get us started with this episode,
same way we start every episode, I feel like people
assume who we are based off of our public personas
social media, but a lot of times we don't get
the chance to tell people who we are. So I
would like for you to tell everybody who is Preston
mitchem Oh.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
I am, you know, confused every day about who I am.
To be honest, like you know, I'm not justin in forever,
Like I know, I know enough shot about no shot
out to do. So I know who I am, right,
but I but there are parts where I'm confused on
identifying myself as a different thing every single day.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
So I will say I am a I.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Always will start off at least with unapologetically black and
queer civil rights attorney and advocate based in Washington, d C.
I am fiercely loyal to my friends and community. I'm
a fiance planning a wedding this October. I'm a traveler,
someone who dares to dream differently, someone who leans into discomfort,
(03:28):
someone who formerly had about and maybe even in the
future on a reality TV show on Bravo. Yeah, I
think that is not about something. Oh, and I'm a
Nellie's hater. So Nelli's sports ball in Washington, d C
will forever be known as anti president.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yes, so yes, all the things that make me me. Yes.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Now in mind you we used to have great times
at Nellie's, but we did.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
We used to really have great times.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Sunday Funday used to be a thing until it became
not a thing. Let's talk about Nellie's because why don't
we start there. It is me and Preston's twelve year
anniversary will be yep in a couple of days, and
Nellie's was one.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Of the places we used to go to.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
But Preston does a lot of activism work for those
who don't know. But Nellie's has had and not just Nelly's,
would say, a string of DC bars have had a
lot of issues surrounding racism in the way that they
treat black queer patrons versus the way that they treat
the white queer, well white gay patrons because they're not queer.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
So why don't we talk just a little bit about
Like you've done a lot of work.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
In DC to try and create safe spaces for black
cord people, So let's just talk to us a little
bit about that work, and like the history of like
Nelly's and like all of the things that you know,
just you've tried to create for Black Cord people to
have safe spaces.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Yeah, and I appreciate that set up, George, because I
think people oftentimes get confused about the issues of a
lot of these bars, right, Like, I have reconciled the
fact that I think many people want to go through
these bars because they just want to drink, right, They
want to have a good time. And you know, I've
realized that after a while. My goal is not to
say I'm going to dislike you or be disappointed into you.
(05:16):
If you go go right like that is sure, that's
what you've decided to do. As for me, it became
clear to me years ago that I cared deeply about
where I was spending my money, especially at a place
like a bar or restaurant, something that we have many
of in DC, and you can kind of pick and choose.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Where you want to go.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
And so like these bars that are been blatantly racist,
right some of the other ones that have been blatantly homophobic,
you name it, I am not going to spend my
money there, especially if I know the owner knows about
what's happening and does not care and it's disrespectful about it.
So Nelly's was an interesting case because you know, as
you said, you and I used to go multiple times
(05:58):
a week.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yes, right, it was.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
It was the place that we really Yeah, it was
like after work where you want to meet up.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Why we've been asking that question. We know where we're going.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
And they also had good food.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Yeah they did those chicken wings. If there's anything I
missed chicken wings and Mazzarellas thins. But but you know,
it was a good space.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
It was a good place. Cheaper drink. Yeah, we weren't.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
It was like we weren't checked the check but it
was like I had to check my check.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Look close enough.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Look, look, I'm like, let me check my bank account
out every day every day.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yeah, at that stage of let me look at you.
So Netley's was that spot.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
And I think after a while you and I started
to not maybe not even blatantly, but I think notice
that there were different responses that bartenders far backs even,
but really the security started to treat black patrons versus
white patrons. It could be around service, how quick people
were being service. It could be about how disrespectful of
(07:00):
the bartenders blatantly were.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Was the they raised the price of henna correct and
like drinks that they thought black patrons drank more. They
started to raise the price of and then they switched
us from glassware to plastic war to.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Plastic wear yep on that I remember came the most.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
H and I remember distinctly you and I talking about
this and it just being a thing like, let's just
play it out. And then there started to be fights
at Nellie's Right, which you know, but I realized quickly
that the fights were only happening at Nellie's Right, and
you know, it made me realize that there is a
reason why people are choosing this venue to fight at consistently. Now,
(07:44):
white folks, white gay folks would also fight, yes, but
the responses from security.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Will be drastic, way different.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Right, Black queer patrons would be thrown out immediately, cops called.
You would never be able to re enter again, at
the very least be able to couldn't come in for months.
The white gay people would barely be thrown out.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
But we watched the one time when they didn't throw
themither of them out, and we were like, yeah, it
was one time.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
I will never forget.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
A white lesbian woman was like fighting like four different
people and they were.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Just like, you just need to cool off. What do
you mean, what do you mean cool off?
Speaker 1 (08:23):
So I called a meeting with a few activists in
DC and the owner of Nelly's, Doug Chance, and his
then manager then Brett, and we were all talking to
your point, George. This is when he became clearly racist.
And his response, we only have all these fights on Sundays,
when you all come the most. We need to not.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Sell Hennessy anymore.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
We're no longer going to have a DJ since you
all are fighting with rap music playing.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
It wasn't even coded language, right.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Some people were like, oh, you know, the language was
so cold it as a butter knife.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
No, this was a.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
Knife, yea.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Like he was very plear about how he felt. And
you know, I wrote a four page letter. Yeah, and
this was twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen. I was angry enough.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
I came home.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
I wrote and wrote and wrote literally listed on what
went wrong, what happened, how we could have done better.
And I posted this letter on Facebook and then I
went to band. I woke up to hundreds and hundreds
of shares, hundreds of comments, thousands of likes, and I'm
like Okay, this took off in a way I did
not anticipate.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
But a lot of the comments were people.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yes, some were blaming black folks because that's what anti
blackness does for you.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
But a lot of people, the majority of.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
People were also sharing their negative experiences at Nelly's. Yeah,
and so you know, but it was a trend at
this time, right, But Nelly's never got better. And then
even after we stopped going to Nelly's, and then you know,
people have amnesia, people start going again, and then a
security drag a black woman down the steps by her
hair right during COVID and I was during Pride months
(09:57):
in twenty twenty one, So I will never again. I'm
pretty sure there's a wanted sign of my face by
the security, right, But it's safe spaces are just so
important to me, Like, I can't believe any of us
honestly would even go to a place that has a
bevy of racism and other allegations. I mean, they've lost
(10:17):
their liquor license so many times. Yeah, yes, and I
just personally can't find the joy there when we have
other I don't know if people know this DC has
like thirteen queer bars. It's not because it's the dearth
of places, like rightly we have many, but you know,
you do get accustomed to what you're accustomed to, and that,
I guess makes people feel good. I certainly am no
(10:39):
longer frustrated with the people who decide to go. I
think my role at this point is just to make
sure people know that there are additional places they can
go to, and that people know the history to then
inform their judgment about whether they still decide to go
or not.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
So to get more into Preston, you also have to
know that President is also an attorney. So like I
spent a lot of money on degrees I don't use
because I have one in finance and I have one
of human resources manage my master's in Human resource management.
And then I started writing books and articles and doing things.
Oh also, President is the first person whoever told me
to write, so we'll write, okay, And I was like
(11:26):
okay and ran with it and now look where we
are period like, And that was also twelve years ago
in junior in a bar, yes number nine, number nine,
when Preston had just wrote an article for Empty magazine
that came out. It was an amazing article and I
was just super excited and was like, well, I want
to write and was like, we'll right. I was like okay,
(11:48):
and I'll started writing. But president's an attorney. I used
to call Preston or text present. It's a funny aside.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
I love Law and Order, me and my mother.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
That was our show, and I would like text press
like is this weird? Like wait, Jack McCoy just did
it's like no.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
Like yours Prudence or this like the term, and I
was like okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
I just was wondering, like could this happen because we're
watching this case of Law Order, Like George.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
What has that been like for you?
Speaker 3 (12:18):
You know, being a black queer attorney, someone who has
had several positions, including my i'le make a joke. My
team listed the Trevor Project, but I was like, oh,
they don't know.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Okay, that is.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Right.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
But it's like shout out to my team who was
like like, what is the Trevor Like, ask what the
Trevor Project is. I'm like, okay, I asked what the
answer is about to be tea so because we went
to war with the Trevor Project. Okay, but actually I
do want you to speak to like how you end
up in like these positions sometimes that feel like, Okay,
(13:01):
we broken like a ceiling somewhere, we now have a
black person, a queer person in a really important position
that possibly could make change. And then you start to see, oh,
this was not about change, this was about something totally different.
And so cause you talk about like just your experience
with the Trevor Project, because it's correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
Did the Trevor Project do the suicide hotline for.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Lgb That was actually that was like your your work,
your work, and your project to talk about that.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
So let's start there. You're at the Travel Project.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
You care helped create this u the nine eight eight
suicide hotline for LGBTQ youth as a way to fight
back and as a way to again create a safe
space for our community. So talk about that, and then
talk about like going from that to this transition where
you start to realize like, oh, this project called Trevor
(13:56):
ain't it?
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yeah? No, right, right, right.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
It's interesting because I think the Trevor Project and I
thought and I still think, just to be clear that
the Trevor Project is an important, necessary organization for LGBTQ
plus use.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
I will always still tell people to call.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Not only ninety eight, but if they're too busy to
really contact the crisis counselor of the Trevor Project, because
that is what we have available to us. Yeah, and
I do think when someone is experiencing a crisis, they
have to call someone, should should call someone. So, you know,
when I started with the Trevor Project, it was clear
to me that there were not a lot of people
of color there, particularly in more leadership positions. You know,
(14:43):
when I was there, I started off as a director
of Government of advocacating government affairs, and I was one
of few spokespeople at Trevor already and then certainly one
of maybe two or.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Three people of color who were spokespeople there.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
And you know, ninety eight is your it is it
is now ninety eight started a couple of years ago,
but it's the number to reach a national suicide and
crisis lifeline.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
But formerly it was a longer form number.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
And the conversation was like, well, if someone experiencing a crisis,
that we should give them something that's short, easy to
use and remember. So I will say my first start
at Trevor Project was interesting because I remember having a
previous boss who was like, you know, it's like nine
one one for mental health, and I'm like, no, no,
actually right, but that that already kind of caught me
(15:32):
off guard in my first month there, right, Like, if
we're framing something that's nomine one for mental health, I
already know as a black queer person, that's a myst
and a mixed message, right, Like most people don't trust
nine to one one, right, Most people don't trust police
and law enforcement coming even during emergencies, especially during emergencies,
(15:52):
And so I'm like, if you call that not one
one for mental health, that I understand the comms perspective
of what you're trying to do. There many communities that
actually will automatically distrust this number because of how you're
framing it.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
And so thankfully I convinced them to walk it back.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
You know.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
So I will say in the beginning, I was, okay,
I feel listen to there are things that I feel
it heard, and a lot of community trusted me because
they were like, oh, we thought Trevor Project was just
the white people, right, but now that you work there, Okay,
So there were some ways, you know, people could have
took that the opposite. They could have been like, oh,
Preston now wants to work with the white people. It
(16:28):
was the opposite. It was oh my god, now that
president is working with them. Now I feel like there
is he's vouching for them. And you know, I think
the longer I stayed there, the more it broke my
heart because what I was hearing is rumors I experienced personally.
So I, with the help of many others, of course,
ended up getting the Trevor Project appropriated twenty nine million
(16:52):
dollars specifically for LGBTQU plus specialized services through Congress. Now
what people do not know is this legend called the
National Suicide Hotline Designation Act past during Trump's first term
in office. Yes, so the president who signed nine to
eight on was President Trump, Yes, one point zero.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yeah. So it's also interesting.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Now that you know RFK Junior is you know, during
elaked HHS budget specifically said they're going to remove specialized
services just for LGBTQ youth. Yes, right, because another specialized
group is actually the veterans, and they were able to
keep all their funding. So it is definitely a target
to LGBTQ plus youth specifically, and so you know, again
(17:35):
I was able to do a lot that that was
ninety percent of my work was making sure it was funded,
making sure there were no cracks in the hot line.
I'm still on nine of eight working groups to this day,
actually doing a lot of work on suicide prevention through
the Suicide Prevention Resource Center, through Vibrant Emotional Health, which
is actually the administrator of the lifeline with SAMSA. But
you know, the Trevor Project also taught me, unfortunately, that
(17:58):
there was a lot of of anti black racism that
a lot of people were experiences. There were just no
clear reasons why some black folks were not getting promoted.
You know, there were assessments based on like worker satisfaction
surveys that most workers of color did not feel good
working there, right, and that's including crisis counselors, right.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
Yeah, And this.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Was during like just to be clear, under a previous CEO,
not the current CEO. But Trevor at this point has
had like three or four layoffs.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
Like massive layoffs.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
If you search the Trevor Project, for sure, you will
see a lot of the exposs from people telling dissatisfied,
having complaints of racism, ableism, transphobia in some instances. And
again I want to be clear that none of that
is to say that it is.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Like the worst org in the world.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
But I also reco because there's just a nonprofit, right,
and that's just what happens in a nonprofit industrial complex.
Like you could say a lot of good feelings and
good missions and then do things that are shitty outside.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
So I'm always inflicted.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
And how I discussed it because you know, I'm like,
on one hand, I think it is probably the best
most impactful work.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I've done in my career.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Yeah, and I had to leave because it was literally
impacting my own mental health, which is ironic considering the organization.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
The organization.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, and that's tough. I've worked
in nonprofits as well. Shout out to us helping us
we all. I think anyone who's worked nonprofit, you're like,
typically the work that you're doing is also like the
thing that feels like it may be harming you.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
So many of the places have done for the Trevor Pobjects,
specifically from the Washington Blade to Los Angeles Blade to
the Washington Post did a few articles about Trevor around
like financial woes around just staff complaints. I mean we
effectively had a coup to get the other CEO removed. Yes,
(19:57):
I realized, if I'm being honest, that there was a
tar go to my back after a while when I
was asked to speak to the entire staff this wee.
We were still a staff of maybe three point fifty
and I was asked to speak to staff. And I
will never forget this moment. Everyone kept leaving messages, pressing
for the next CEO, pressing for the next CEO and baby.
(20:17):
Some people did not like that. Some people did not
like that. But I was really well liked among staff.
The staff really wanted it. Like it was very clear
from a staff perspective. But you know, staff, ironically enough
don't always matter in the workplace. But it's hard to
count the tea leaves, but I certainly can sometimes.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
And I was like, it is, It's gonna be my
time to go.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
But you know what, I run into a staff, former
staff and current staff at Chever all the time still,
and none of them ever tell me I'm wrong because
they always knew that I was not. Some people just
don't feel empowered to speak. And yes, I don't know
what it is about people like us. But like, I
cannot work in a place that I don't feel safe
enough to call out the nonsense. And I don't care
(21:04):
how big or small, and so to your point of
my even my career trajectory, like I have been blessed
to have really good positions, but it didn't start out
that way, but like really good positions where I'm like,
I'm sorry, these organizations have largely been seventy eighty ninety
percent white, yeah, or at the very least seventy eighty
ninety percent white women, and underpaying black staff, not promoting
(21:30):
black staff or even their queer staff, well sometimes especially
black and queer staff, And so you know, I'm like, yeah,
the options for many people are just to be quiet
and do their work and just move on. And I'm like,
I actively believe my purpose is to make places better
before I leave, right, And if that means like causing
(21:51):
a fissure or at least calling out the fissure that
exists already that people are quiet about, then so be it, right,
you know, And I realize that people they may not
tell you, but people really people respect it because they
fundamentally know that they can't do it, right, Maybe they're
not in a position to do it, they don't feel
in power to do it. But I'm like, none of
y'all scare me, So I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
You become the voice for so many people who feel
like they're they're silenced.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Right. I can't imagine going to a place that I
hate it, knowing how terrible it is and just going
along with my day. Like I understand that it's also
a privileging statement, right, because there is something to be
said around.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Having to be quiet.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
But also at the end of the day, it's like
it's also a danger for me to speak up. I
just don't know another way. Like I like, I'm like,
this is wrong, and we all see it's wrong.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Right, because it's like the other option is not better
in my mind, So speaking up is the best thing
I could do.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Absolutely, absolutely, Now.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Back to my conversation with Preston Mitcham, let's talk about
you on television, Okay, So for those for those who
don't know, Preston was the only gay cast member on
Summer's House Summer House.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
I said, summers, Well, I'm black.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
We're gonna put black Summer House, right, So I'm gonna
put as you know, I say Krogers whatever.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
So it's like, I'm gonna put.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
As on something summer Summer House of Martha's Vineyard. It
was on air for two seasons, was wildly popular.
Speaker 4 (23:49):
Shout out to Bravo. Do you do an unshout out
to Bravo.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
I don't know anyway, Shout out to Bravo for giving
us the show, but also like I need try to
bring it back. But what was that like, right, like,
because we don't want we don't have a whole lot
of black queer people in general and on TV shows
or in media. You know, we have Dremel Simon, who's
on the Upshaws and like, who's a pretty recognizable face. Oh,
(24:13):
we do have Bobby Like, who's actually been pretty decent
on love and hip hop. So it's like we're starting
to see a little bit of queer representation. But you
were like a different type of queer representation because you
stood on business but you also educated really political. What
did it feel like to be like the only black
person in the house, but also to be the breakout
(24:34):
star of the show, like everybody knows it, like you
were the star of the show.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Yeah, you know, I feel like you expected me to
be the star, but I certainly did not expect that,
Like I think that, Yeah, that was the thing that
shocked me probably the most. But I will say I
had two mindsets. One it was beautiful, like I never
deeply desired to be on reality TV. But when it
came more into fruition, I was like, this is weird
(24:59):
because I just happened to be on the Vineyard when
the opportunity kind of presented itself. It wasn't like we
submitted audition tapes or anything like that. It was really
divine timing and being quite literally.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
At the right place in the right time.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
So it was beautiful because you know, I was like, Wow,
this is a chance to really build my platform, my brand,
Like you know, Santana, for example, is not about to
just like watch my speeches, but he may watch a
reality show. And so I always thought about, like, how
do you get to the people who you can talk to?
You can get on your side, you can expand your platform,
(25:35):
you can build this reach and then be like, hey,
you know, have we talked about LGBTQ equality. Have we
talked about equity? Have we talked about abortion right? And
that's kind of how I always looked at it. On
the flip side, it was also a big burden, like
it was, you know, to be the only in any
room is nothing I ever desire, right, And so I
(25:55):
know there are many people respectfully or disrespect all the times,
who love being the only in the room. Like they
thurvive off of it. They thrive off of creating a
space that looks just like them and only them. And
that is the most discomforting thing in my life. And
I would never want to be the only. In fact,
I used to always like say to even like cast and.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Crew, like, what are other gay people at? Right? Where
are we like at least one more?
Speaker 1 (26:24):
And that's the thing the audience even suggested, right, the
audist is even like, oh, I just want press on
have another queer person in his house, right, like another person?
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Because you know, there were moments I.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Think it read that you could tell I was actually
annoyed because of certain words being used, things seen and unseen.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
But you know, so again it was beautiful, but it
was a burden.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
But I will say, what I'm grateful for more than
anything is to have people like me and still come
up to me daily just telling me how much they
could tell I was not fake on the show, and
how much they could tell I was like, I ain't
doing that or or just trying.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
To build community even among everyone.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
But when I tell you, I have multiple times certain
people saying like you were to start that show, don't
I don't care, don't let nobody tell you different, Like
that show could not be what it is without you
being here, right, And I really appreciate that.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
Yeah, So what's the filming? Like what is it like?
Because like we get.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
An hour of y'all right, and what y'all see in
the world is twelve weeks of television, but it was
really all shot in twelve days, right or fourteen days?
How much time are y'all actually like filming? And like
like where you're like, damn is the camera still on me?
Like when do we get a break?
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Like what did it?
Speaker 4 (27:41):
I actually like to be in the pressure cooker.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
So I'll tell you this.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
It's the reason why it was easy for me to
genuinely not be mad at fans when I saw their
commentary about anything happening is because I, first of all
think that's the point of reality TV. It is quite
literally supposed to trick you into believing that that is
exactly what is happening as it happened.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Now, there's some truth to that, right, There's absolutely some truth.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Like, if you can build the consistency in that way,
it's because you gave them that much to build. So
whenever I see someone being like, I'm not a villain,
I'm like, maybe not, but you gave them enough villain commentary, right,
And it was easy to build that up from that.
And I should say there are moments that are just
blatantly not how it happened, right, And so there are
some times where it gets a little frustrating from some
(28:30):
customer's perspectives because they are trying to actually share what
they know happen from their experience.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
But also fans don't want to hear that. Ye.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Fans LARGELYE wants you to accept their version of what
everyone saw as the only reality to happen. So you
kind of have to eat your own salt from that point,
and you can't be mad at fans because that is
what showcase, right. So in terms of filming, it was
kind of wild season one, especially because people don't know
I was not supposed to be there the whole time,
(29:00):
But you know, your girl showed up, so like they
was so sad, but that is what happened, honestly, you know.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
They were like, hey, we need you to stay for us.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
We would like but we film about thirteen to fourteen
days and it is sunlight to sundown, right sun up
to sunset, and you get up in the morning and
you know that this is actually what you learn too.
You're not even supposed to talk to anyone on cast
until your mic So there will be moments. There will
(29:34):
be moments I would have no micael because I'm just
waking up in the morning.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
I never even thought about that.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Yeah, so I would wake up, it'd be like eight
in the morning.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
I'm like running to get coffee there, but like good morning press,
and I'm like, and you do that because you're trying
to tell them, like you're just patting yourself to say
I don't have a mic one just so they don't
think you're bearing rude to them. But you're like, I
can't talk right now, and even then they'll be like,
be quiet.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
So I find something like that because why don't you forget?
Speaker 1 (30:01):
And there will be one moment I was in the
middle of the kitchen with the mere season one. We
were talking for like twenty solid minutes and they were like, Crusten,
are your mic?
Speaker 2 (30:07):
I said, oh, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
And now back to my conversation with Preston Mitchem. As
we get to the close of this show, we always
do two segments. I used to have a column called
George's Tired Wife, write every week about what I was
tired about. I think this week, I'm just tired of
daylight Saving Time? Like, can we just get rid of it?
I feel like the conversation keeps coming up and it's like, okay,
(31:07):
but like because of who our president is, the world
already thinks we're dumb. But then when we try to
be like, no, we're really not dumb, and it's like,
but you have daylight saving time, it's like, oh, yeah,
we are dumb. Like we have a state called Kansas,
and then the other one that has Kansas in the
name we call Arkansas. So it's like, yeah, y'all are
like come on, like right, like get off fit. So
(31:27):
I just think I'm and things that make America look dumb. Right,
It's like the president makes us look dumb. Please start
calling it our Kansas. Can we just like, can we not.
Is there anything that you are tired of for the week.
I'm sored of this weather right now.
Speaker 4 (31:46):
That's somebody else brought that up to like the weather,
like the weather is just not weather written.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Yeah, Like I know it's people's fault, like it's our fault.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
It's our fault, right, be very because we don't believe
in science, and stop making America look dumb.
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Like the nature is just nature because she's sick of
she is tired, she's sighed. So I get it. But
I'm just like I've been good mother nature. Why I
gotta deal with these people?
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Right?
Speaker 3 (32:10):
Final thing is I always like for people to leave,
like just some words for other people to follow by
people know. My favorite quote is Tony Morrison's there's a
book you want to read and hasn't been written yet
the gamus write it. I give myself mantras every year
to live by. Last year was be undeniable, This year
scorch to earth because that's just.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Where we're at.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
Are there any words that you're living by for twenty
twenty five? And what do you see next?
Speaker 1 (32:34):
For Preston Mischam, the words I have been living by
since January first is remember who you were doing it for.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
And remember why you're doing it.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
I remember just having a moment where I'm like, I
feel so sagnant, Like it felt like nothing was moving,
and I just felt like I was just waking up
and going to sleep, Like every day felt like groundhowks.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Like I felt like I was not loved.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
It's probably a hard way to put it, because I
know I'm always abundantly loved, but it just felt like
there was no growth in anything I was touching or
doing that no one was really seeing my work in
the way that I wanted them to see it. And
that is what I'm reminding myself of that it's okay
at this point, and I am just remembering why I'm
doing it, who I'm doing it for. What's next is
(33:24):
a lot of things, like I am still, you know,
being vented for TV projects. I am going to get
this book out in a couple of years. If it
kills me, well hopefully it does.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Not kill me.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
Will not kill me, but I will be getting this
book out and really just expanding my own brand, my businesses.
I'm looking forward to my wedding, looking forward to us
celebrating the Bachelor trip.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
I if y'all didn't know.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
George is my best person at my wedding. Yes, I'm
honestly just excited for what's next. Like this is one
of the first time in years, and I'm like, I
am going to make this the best moments of my life.
I don't care what the day looks like. And I
am so grateful for being able to say that now,
because if you asked me a couple years ago, I
would have never been able to say that.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Yeah, amazing, Preston, Thank you for being on fighting words.
Speaker 4 (34:14):
I love you, love you, I will see you soon.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Yes, everybody, Preston mitcham and you can follow Preston on Instagram.
Speaker 4 (34:23):
Is your stuff still at preson misson.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Uh president dot mitchum, but literally everywhere at this point
you on Twitter still or ex whatever they're calling it now, threats,
Instagram and TikTok.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
All right, I was going to die, if not sooner
than later, whether or not I had ever spoken myself.
My silences had not protected me. Your silence would not
protect you. This is a quote from the black lesbian
(34:57):
poet and feminist activists Audrey Lord. Born in a West
Indian family in New York City. In nineteen thirty four.
Lord started writing poems when she was only twelve years old.
She always believed that language and knowledge are transformative and
that silence is a form of violence. In a famous
talk that she gave at NYU at nineteen seventy nine,
(35:19):
entitled the Master's Tools will Not Dismantle the Master's House,
she condemned the feminist movement in the US for representing
a mostly white and straight point of view. For Lord,
black and lesbian perspectives are not just minor differences to
be tolerated, they are necessary sources of knowledge and power
for the feminist.
Speaker 4 (35:38):
Movement to thrive.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Lord passed away in nineteen ninety two after a second
bout of breast cancer. Shortly before her death, she took
the name Gamba Adisa, meaning warrior, she who makes her
meaning known. Fighting Words is a production of iHeart Podcasts
(36:06):
in partnership with BET's Case Studios. I'm Georgiam Johnson. This
episode was produced by Charlotte Morley. Execution producers are myself
and Twiggy Puchi Guar Song with Adam Pinks and Brick
Cats for Best Case Studios. The theme song was written
and composed by Kole Vas Bambianna and myself. Original music
(36:27):
by Klevas. This episode was edited and scored.
Speaker 4 (36:31):
By Max Michael Miller.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Carl Ketel following
rape Fighting Words Wherever you get your podcast
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.