June 17, 2025 • 41 mins
George is joined by travel influencer and writer Imani Bashir to discuss the importance of meeting your global community and meeting yourself in the wider world. Along the way, they talk about modern day Green Books, how not to be a colonizer, why so few Black Americans have a passport — and why that needs to change, especially these days.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
So when I booked a one way flight, I didn't
have a round trip flight back home. I did not
have a job lined up when I got to Cairo,
and I lived with someone, So it was a whole
just like literally like how they say, like jumping out
the plane and building your parachute on the way down.
It was one of those experiences of like it's plan
(00:21):
A and it's plan A, Like.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
This is either going to work or it's going to work.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Going to work, going to work.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
This is a Mani Bashir a content creator, activist, and
traveler who has lived in five different countries outside of
the US. She's become an advocate for black travel, for
Black Americans getting their passports, and she's going to talk
to us about how to see more of this world
and find community everywhere.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Ultimately, it came down to like you good, you good, Okay,
let's try let's try it, let's do it, and let's
see what happens. And so that became like two cities
in China that became giving birth to my son and
stretching Poland much closer to Germany than it is anywhere else.
We done like some long since in Malaysia, Thailand and Mexico. Yeah,
(01:08):
it's it's been a journey, but it's been an absolute blessing.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Now singing in them heavy handed, So with the world
take a superbranded coaching guy. You know what the plan is?
Speaker 4 (01:24):
O jama Latin, you know what to understand me. My
name is George M. Johnson.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
I am the New York Times bestselling author of the
book All Boys Are in Blue, which is the number
one most challenged book in the United States.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
This is Fighting Words.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
A show where we take you to the front lines
of the culture wars with the people who are using
their words to make change and who refuse to be silent.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
On the show today, Amani Bashir.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Today we are here with another one of my dear friends,
a sister, a confidant to someone who I love immensely.
Emani b how are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I am doing fantastic.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
I'm so happy to be here joining you on this
venture that you have. So I'm really excited for this
journey for you. So I appreciate you for inviting me
to be a part of that.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Yes, we've known each other for several years now.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
We knew each other on social media, but then met
in person on a birthday trip I had in Mexico. Yes,
and Amani showed up with this gift basket. We went
on the boat. It was just fab because one thing
about a mine, she knows other countries and that is
why she is the ultimate traveler. Do they call y'all
travel listas?
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (02:42):
We though, okay, travel LISTA. So we created new words
as well on fighting words. We always like to start
off the show the same way. People judges based on
our public personas they don't really know who we are.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
And so who is Imani?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
B Oh wow, that is a great question.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
I'm a lover. I'm a people person. I am communally
engaged and tapped in with my people, with my folks.
But I'm also a mom. I'm also a world traveler.
I'm also a freedom fighter of sorts.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
If you will love that, I love that.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
So let's start with the running joke of the United States,
which is I'm leaving the United States. Everybody online, everybody
on social media is like, I'm out of here.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
I'm going to Canada.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
I'm out of here.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
I'm going somewhere else.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
But people don't really understand what that fully means to say,
I am going somewhere else.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Other than the United States. But you do understand what
that means.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
The short term is an expat but it's really an expatriot. Correct,
So can you just even just give us like a
brief explanation of like what expatriation even means.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Yeah, I think a lot of people like cringe at
the term because we've often found that white folks have
coined themselves expatriates, and everybody else is an immigrant. Anybody
else migrating around the world is an immigrant. But I
get to be an expat. I get to be this
digital nomad, you know, while other people are demonized for
their choice of mobility. And so when we talk about
(04:09):
expatriation versus like immigrants, expatriation traditionally means somebody who's a
bit nomadic and they're not leaving permanently. They're kind of
out and then eventually they're coming back, versus like when
you're talking about like immigrant and somebody is supposed to
and we're talking about like textbook dictionary is someone who
is making a life holistically outside of their quote unquote
(04:33):
homeland and they're permanently staying. And so when we identify expatriates,
we can even identify our own folks. We can identify
James Baldwin, we can identify Audrey Lord, we can identify
Maya Angelou. So it's not that the term is not
something that you can use, and people will say it
all day long. They say it under my post, like
you can't say expat, you have to say immigrant. And
(04:53):
I say, in the quote of Audrey Lord, I can
define myself for myself, and so therefore, how it is
that I choose to divide myself, especially as someone who's
lived in multiple countries and who's also repatriated back to
the United States at some you know stages, is like
I can identify myself as an expect based on textbook definition.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Yes, then you have a very interesting story about when
you left the United States. Talk us about your experience
the first time, like you left the US.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Who.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
So I started my career in broadcasting. I really wanted
to be on TV. I thought I was going to
be like the Muslim Hee Jabbie play on Oliver.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
I thought I was gonna be out here child.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
And then I started interviewing for like these bigger networks
and was always some kind of excuse like oh, you're great,
but or you're great butt And it's like I just
knew they didn't know how to present me on television.
I started in radio, and that's where sometimes people want
you comfortable because you're not seen. Yeah, And so I
was at a stage in my career where I was
(05:54):
just like, I'm doing well, I know my craft, I'm
good at it, but I'm not there's no mobility and
where I'm looking to go. And Sandra Bland happened. And
when Sandra Bland was murdered, I really just dove into
her story. And she and I were the same age
at the time. She was like literally chasing her dream.
I think she was on her way to either interview
(06:15):
for a job or she was like on her way
coming from interviewing for like a role or something. And
I was like, she is me, And I could not sleep.
I could not sleep because I made myself her in
a sense of like, at any given moment, this can
be me, this can be me. I started to develop
an anxiety that I didn't have before. I started getting
(06:35):
chest pains, insomnia, all those types of things. And I
was working a temp job over the summer and it
just came to me move abroad and it was like
as clear as day as somebody like whispered it to
you in your ear. So call it God, call it spirit,
call it intuition, call it universe. All of it was like, girl,
get on out of here. And then I started making
a plan for myself, and my plan as a Sagittarian
(06:57):
was thirty days. I started off with like finding groups
of people that were already outside, like, hey, where are
the best places to go? I have a communications degree.
I don't know what I could do with that, And
started using community black folks, other black folks that were
already doing it as a way to help me learn
(07:18):
what it is that I needed to learn. And I
landed on Cairo, Egypt, and you know, people are always
like Cairo, and the honest and goodness truth was like
it wasn't intentional. I heard that you can make a
lot of money in the United Arab Emirates teaching.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
When I started talking to folks who had been.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Doing it, they were like, girl, if you don't have
a teaching license degree, they're not going to pay you.
And somebody in one of the groups was like, hey, Cairo,
they'll hire you as a teacher.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
They don't care what degree you just come on over here.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
So when I booked a one way flight, I didn't
have a round trip flight back home. I did not
have a job lined up when I got to Cairo,
and I lived with someone, So it was a whole
just like literally like how they say, like jumping out
the plane and building your parachute on the way down.
It was one of those experiences of like it's plan A,
(08:13):
and it's plan A, like.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
This is either going to work or it's going to work.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Because I had no extra funds, I had no other alternatives.
It was like, once I get here, I'm going to
have to figure it out. And that's what I did.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
And so you first ended up in Cairo, but you've
lived in five other is it five five other places?
Speaker 4 (08:33):
And you even had your son in Poland?
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Right, yes, that's what I said. Okay, So what was
that experience like then? Like you said the nomadic part
about it, right, because it's back and went to Cairo.
You start this new life and then you start more
new lives. It's like rebirths in different places.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
So I didn't know what was possible. Right.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
The interesting thing was I was teaching English literature in Ki,
so I was teaching tenth and eleventh grade, and you know,
I had to make it black and black.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
So my kids were reading Howard's, then.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
They were reading My Angelou, they were read I had
them reading all the things. And one of the things
that I correlated was with Maya Angelou. She was an
editor at a paper in Cairo and she also lived
in Ghana.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
And I was like, wait a minute.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
And I started to dig a little bit deeper about
some of our historical figures that have lived in multiple places.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
And I was like, oh, this is a thing.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
And you know, as I've heard you say before and speaking,
it's like, yeah, we know about our historical figures, but
until something really connects with us, we don't really deep
dive into these folks and their lives and what they've
done and who they were and et cetera. And so
about seven months into my journey of living in Cairo,
I met my son's father, who is from East Buffalo,
(09:50):
New York, a black man who had lived in Spain,
in Italy, and France.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
And I was like, wait a minute, that's a thing.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
You've lived all around the world, and so meeting him
was a catalyst to that nomadic journey because the way
that his work and contracts and stuff were set up
is like he could go anywhere based on where he
got a contract. So when we decided to get married
and create this life together, that was our journey. It's like,
we're gonna go wherever it is that you get these contracts. Now,
(10:18):
obviously we would do our homework, we would research these places,
but ultimately it came down to like you good, you good, Okay,
let's try let's try it, let's do it, and let's
see what happens. And so that became like two cities
in China that became giving birth to my son and stretching.
Poland is much closer to Germany than it is anywhere else.
(10:40):
We done some long since in Malaysia, Thailand and Mexico. Yeah,
it's it's been a journey, but it's been an absolute blessing.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Now you've been a big advocate for black travel at mobility.
It's like it's an important thing to see the world,
even if you can only get a small piece of it.
But what is like important about black travel and mobility?
And especially because the United States there used to be
the Green Book because it wasn't safe for black fols
(11:17):
to travel, but it's still not safe for black fols
to travel because there are still sundowntowns and we don't
talk about that enough. And I'm from Jersey and there
are still sundowntowns in Jersey that we don't talk about enough.
So what does it mean to be like an advocate
for black travel and mobility and even safety while doing it?
Because you also share a lot of tips on how
you stay safe while doing this too.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Yes, when we talk about green Book, we talk about
something that's so iconic to us as a people that communally,
we came together and we said we're gonna go. We're
gonna go where we need to go. We're gonna migrate, right,
because that's a human thing. Migration is not like yes,
so outside of us, like everyone around the world, migrants
(12:00):
for better.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
That's the reality, right.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
And black folks have had big migrations in the United
States multiple times, which is how we have ended up
in many different areas where you're like, woll okay, y'all
end up.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
It's like we did great migrations.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Exactly, and we were going for jobs, and we were
going for housing, and we were going for land, and
we were going to create families like we were going
in any community does the exact same thing. So we
are not so abstract from what the human nature of
us is to do is to move, it's to go right.
And so when we talk about green Book, we talk
(12:33):
about something that created a safety for us that says, hey,
we can go to these places, but also.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Avoid these places.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Don't go here after this certain time. And also we
do have a new iteration. It was created by a
brother named Lawrence called green Book Global. It's an app
and it integrates into Google. Yes, so if you are
somebody who likes to take a road trip, because the
United States is vast, it's a vast piece of land
that it's like travel doesn't necessarily often mean that you
(13:02):
have to have a passport. It's like going from Jersey
to New Orleans. You're getting so many different cultures in between,
You're getting so much different food in between, so many
different people, even language. And green Book Global Lawrence created
the app for that purpose of saying, we want to
enhance what it is our ancestors did with green Book
and make sure that we're still safe in the places
that we go. And the reason that I advocate for
(13:24):
travel is because I felt like I met myself in
so many places, and also understanding the ignorances that we
have about people until we meet them up close. And
so when I first started, very similar to you. My
parents are from Jersey and my parents went to Howard
(13:44):
University and my mom's.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Experience of being in DC seeing all those black people
getting to education.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
My dad's talking about how Debbie Allen, he saw Debbie
Allen dancing on around campus.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
It's like, these are the things that sparked them to say, no,
we don't have to stay where we are. We can
go to different places. And we went to Florida, and
we went to Georgia to busy cousins and aunties and
things of that nature. And then when I started my
career in broadcasting, we usually drove because we had the
marketing equipment which took us to states down south and
places that I never thought I would travel through. But
(14:18):
it was important to see that we exist there too.
And that's another thing that I think we have this
misnomer that black people are only in certain places.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
I'm like, we are literally all over the globe.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
There hasn't been one place that I've been that I
haven't seen us or some version of us of the diaspora,
you know. And so for me, I think it's it
gives you a better expansive knowledge of who we are
as a people, that when we say the words we
are not a monolith, traveling shows you that we are
not a monolith, and that we are a vast people,
(14:49):
and that we are migrating nomadic people as well.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Absolutely, A lot of people used to ask me, George,
why haven't you traveled internationally? I was like, because I
haven't figured out my own country yet. I was allowed
to go to places like this little city called Uray, Colorado,
with a population of nine hundred ninety eight people because
they have a public library, and I was able to
speak about all boys aren't Blue to pretty much half
the city showed up.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
But partly why half the city showed up was because.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
They didn't have many black people in that nine hundred
ninety eight population. They had even fewer queer non binary
identified people, probably less than probably twenty maybe ten in
that population. But we are, like you said, they do exist,
and we do exist. And I always say a lot
of my book sales are in very small cities throughout
the Midwest and out the South that you wouldn't think
(15:38):
that queer people were, but they are, even if they
can't be publicly who they are. So I always said
I wanted to figure out my country first and see
a lot of my country first. And I'm saying my
country because it's the country I live in, not because
I want to be very very clear. My ties to
America ain't like that. But my ties to black folks
in America are very strong. So I want to know
(15:59):
where black people were existed and learn more about them,
the culture, the roots and all of that. But this country,
you know, this land is your land, This land is
my land? Is not that so only we're singing right
now this is not my land. But I did get
a passport, and I have started to travel more to
see other cultures.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
And you know, I love Paris, France.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
It's one of my favorite places to go because we
have so many black Parisian friends over there. But you
have a passport initiative. Why do you think so little
black Americans hold a passport? And like, what is the
importance of making sure we have a passport?
Speaker 1 (16:31):
I think not that I think I know passports represent
mobility and privilege, and that's why we don't have them
as much as other groups. When you look at places
like Europe, when you look at the continent of Africa,
people have their passports at birth. I've even had people
comment on my social media, wait, Americans, why don't y'all
(16:53):
don't have a pastor how.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Much is it to get a passport there?
Speaker 1 (16:56):
And they're so amazed that, like, we don't have it.
And wanted to explain to people that number one, when
we talk about the entirety of Black Americans socio economically,
one hundred and sixty five dollars is not feasible to
spend on the document that you're going to put inside
of your dress or drawer. Right, So when I created
(17:18):
my passport initiative, I was like, hey, I just want
to remove one barrier, and that's the financial part of
attaining the document. But especially since we were coming into
this iteration of a presidential fascist.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
Right, the continuation of the fastiest occupation.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
I was looking at Project twenty twenty five and I
was looking at all the ways in which citizenship has
been under attack, and I've wanted Black people to arm themselves, right,
So it's not just Hey, this passport is a document
for you to be able to go to Mexico or
to be able to go to Jamaica. But it's also
(17:58):
an indication that, hey, I am here. And also it
helps people to have the ability that in the event
of because when we think of asylum seekers, most people
that seek asylum have a document to be able to
present to say I'm coming from this place, to come
(18:20):
to this place. I've learned from my audience because I've
never had to seek asylum somewhere.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
I got a chance to choose to leave the United.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
States, and I didn't have a lot of money, but
I wasn't facing destitution. I wasn't facing war, things that
people famine that are real to people. But I also
realized that some of our people are and that if
it came to the point in which we have to
seek greener pastures elsewhere, we have the document readily available
to be able to go. It's the opportunity presented itself.
(18:50):
So when I thought about the passport initiative, I was like,
I just want to kind of just condense that gap
of us that don't have it versus everybody else that does,
and to also allow people to then expand and dream
and say, now that I do have it, what are
the possibilities for me having this document and start to
make a different plan for themselves that says, you know what,
(19:13):
I want to use this, So maybe I will start
putting something aside to be able to go somewhere, or
maybe I'll get one for my child, or get one
for my mother or get one, which I've had people
in my comments say, you really inspire me to take
my mother to the post office and get her a passport. Yeah,
because she ain't never want to go nowhere. But whether
you go somewhere or not with it, it's usually better
(19:36):
to have and not need than to need and not have.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
Yeah, yeah, no, I think that's so true.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
And with real id with ice raids and people actually
not really caring about certain documentation because of the way
you may look cool, because of what your name is like,
it is super important now more than ever, as you said,
to have as much documentation as possible on you, because
these type of things can happen to any one of us,
which is why our oppressions are attached both domestically and globally.
(20:07):
And so Amani is really big on TikTok and big
on speaking out about what is going on in Palestine,
what is going on in the Sudan, what is going
on in the Congo, and so many other places, and
making sure that we have that information and we understand
how their struggles are tied to our struggles. I always say,
what happens elsewhere becomes a big indication of what's going
to happen to you here.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
And I feel like a lot of.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Times when you're watching international policies being acted, in international
violence being acted, they are test projects for what can
be done elsewhere, right, And so it's like you watch
the genocide and you watch these things happening over here,
and then everybody is shocked at ice rating places, and
it's like, but that's because that's how it started somewhere else,
(20:53):
and you watched it happen thinking it could never happen
to you, And so you just tell us about like
the importance of the connect the global struggle, and why
it's important that we advocate for those who are Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
You know, it's so imperative.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
It's been imperative, and I feel like our leaders of
the past and our respected leaders of today know that
and understand that like, we are a part of a.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Global community, a global majority.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Right, So when we talk about somewhere like a Sudan,
and we understand that what is happening with the people
of Sudan is as a result of the United Arab
Emirates and their control of being able to get resources
from the Sudan Like gold, gold doesn't come from Dubai.
(21:45):
So when people go to Dubai to buy their gold,
you are buying gold that.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Comes from the Sudanese people. Right.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
When we talk about what's happening in the Democratic Republic
of Congo, which is a literal genesis, it's genocides that
are happening to these people. And anything that we use
that's electronic, that is what it is. That they are
foraging out of this land. They are using child labor.
The Congolese people are suffering as a result of resources
(22:15):
that they simply just have in their land. So when
we talk about it, it's like the privilege that I
have to open up my math book and act like
these things don't exist is at the cost of somebody's
life over in the Democratic Republic of Congo.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Now, I may not be able to.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Change the fact that in twenty twenty five. Technology is
something that we need and use, and how we could
communicate and how it is that we are able to
speak to audiences, educate people, how it is that we're
able to bring awareness to things. But also I've learned
from Congolese activists, Hey, we're not telling you not to
buy something new, buy something refurbished. If you need to
(22:55):
get an upgrade, get a refurbished thing, or at least
speak about what it is that's happening put your money
where those things are. But also in talking about full esteem,
people get so up in arms about what is happening
over there, and I'm like, hey, when you look at
your cop cities and your communities like Atlanta, you will
see there's a pipeline between IDF, which is the Israeli
(23:18):
Defense Forces and our police departments, and that our police
departments in the United States and predominantly in black communities,
are being trained.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
By Israeli forces.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
And when we look at our HBCUs, when I'm an
HBCU alum, some of our HBCUs have ties to Israel,
and so where are their allegiances going to lie? When
it comes down to pipeline, how can we trust that
if you can do that to these people over here,
like literally carve out sections of people and land and
(23:49):
strip people of resources, that you won't do that to us.
Have we not seen that in Flint, Michigan. Have we
not seen what's happened over in La to Altadina black
commune unity, These black thriving suburban communities that all of
a sudden nobody has insurances to be able to help
people rebuild. And we look at Appalachia in North Carolina
(24:11):
that's still without running water. It's like, Hey, these are
happening in morsels, and because they're in siloed areas, it's
not one big block like Tulsa or the move bombing
in Philadelphia that people can say, oh, this is so intentional.
It's like, because you're living in your comforts over here
and you're not affected by the wildfires in Altadena, you
(24:32):
don't see how it's connecting to you. And it's all
literally connected. And if we don't see that, and we
don't come to the realization that we have to make
a cognizant effort to even support our most marginalized communities
at home, because everything starts at home, we won't recognize
the tyranny, that what it is that's being done to
(24:54):
folks over there is being done to us and vice versa.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Yeah, and now back to my conversation with Ebonnie Basheer,
(25:24):
and so what is it that people can do more of?
We're on MacBooks having this conversation, like it's so ingrained,
you can't separate yourself from this because the products we buy,
the things that we need are a direct pipeline to
this six year old child industrudan, or the six year
(25:46):
old in the Congo digging for this mineral or resource
that eventually becomes your iPhone.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
So what can people do better?
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Because I think a lot of people also are afraid
to speak about injustice because of political pressure, backlashes, job security.
There are people who are very afraid, like if I
say this thing, I lose so much and I support
so many So how do I how do I balance
balance that?
Speaker 1 (26:14):
That's a hard line because we are a capitalist society,
right and however the ways in which we make our
money determines our livelihood. I don't have the expectation that
it is realistic for everybody to just go, you know,
gung ho, like I'm throwing away my MacBook and I'm
(26:35):
throwing away my eye. But it doesn't have to be
so outside of yourself. And I think people start with
with who you are and where you are and what
things matter to you.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Let's look at Miss Rachel.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Miss Rachel is a white lady that has specialized in
music education. But that lady will not stop talking about
what is happening in Gaza, and she has literally been
accused of supporting terrorist organizations just because she says.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
I love children.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
I love all children, and because I love all children,
I believe that all children should have basic things. You
know what I mean, and be able to say that
what are the things that matter to you?
Speaker 2 (27:18):
I am a mother.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
I cannot turn away from seeing these amputees, these children
that are without limbs, These mothers that are with are
no longer with partners. And that's for anywhere that is
experiencing this, including in our communities. And so as a
result of that, I cannot turn away. And I understand
(27:40):
that when it comes to these brands, when it comes
to these corporations, people are afraid of their dollars. But
if we recognize that there's more of us than there
is of them, and if more of us are willing
to speak on the things they're going to have to
shift with matters to them. We see what's happening with Target.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
I was just about to say, girl, okay.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Okay, watch this, hold my beer and see what happens
the same thing that's happened with Starbucks.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
You know what I mean, and anyone else can get it.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
We got pastor Jamal Bryan now that's starting to boardcott
with Dollar General and saying how harmful they've been in
our communities. And I feel like if we are brave
enough to say no more, no more will you create
destruction for money, No more will you try to dangle
(28:33):
that carrot of capitalism over our faces, right and say
your livelihood depends on you being quiet and silence.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Silence is complicity.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
And the sooner that you recognize that, and the sooner
that you recognize the chickens will come home to roost.
That's something that you turn a blind eye to that
will eventually come back to you. And so the first
part is recognizing your privilege and where you stand with
those privileges. And the second thing is recognizing that these
(29:05):
brands and corporations make money off of us.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
So it's not the other.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
So, yeah, they're providing services, but we can get those
services at a flea market. We could get those services
at a mom and pop that makes lotions or smell goods,
whatever it is that you're looking for. But it takes
for us to actually be diligent and understanding what's at
stake here. We don't get a civil rights movement because
people were like, well, I mean, but I gotta get
(29:34):
to work, I gotta I gotta get on the bus.
We don't get a Montgomery bus boycott because people were
just like, Ah, I'm gonna just have to get on
the bus. No, we got one because people understood what
was at stake for our communities and what it is
that we need it going forward. And sometimes that doesn't
directly impact us.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
In the immediate.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
But if you have children, nieces, nephews, a next generation
that's coming up behind you, what kind of world do
you want for.
Speaker 5 (29:57):
Them to switch gears just a little bit.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
You have a large following on TikTok, growing following on Instagram.
Videos are always just so curated, So what is just
like some of your social media strategies, what gives you
that thing to be able to wake up and be
like okay, because it's a job.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
I remember talking to a girlfriend of mine who like
she had been on TikTok. She had like over one
hundred thousand followers, and I remember downloading the app and
I thought everybody had to dance. So I was like,
oh right, Like I right, So I deleted the app
and I was like, yeah, this doesn't make sense.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
And I remember her telling me.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
She was like, girl, I do videos in my bathroom
with a bonnet. And she talked more about like womanhood, motherhood, spirituality.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
And things of that nature. And I'll just watched her
videos and I'm like, people really mess with it.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
I don't even know if since brushed her teet this morning.
And she was like, if it's in your heart to
say to share, Like that's what people like on TikTok.
It's not like Instagram, where sometimes it feels a little
bit more pretentious. It has to be more polished things
of that nature. And so just me being a Sabittarius
middle child and a certified yeapper, I was.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Like, oh, I can talk to myself one here, and
that's what it became.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
And originally it was like I want to talk to
black folks. About mobility and what life is like abroad
and answer whatever questions they may have about what this
looks like, because for some of us that ain't been
outside our neighborhoods might not be outside of our state.
It's like, wait, and you moved to Poland, girl, what
like tell me more? And so those were the conversations,
(31:43):
and then it became like, hey, let's not be a
Christopher Columbus when we're traveling. Let's not take that American
privilege when we're traveling, you know, And so yeah, absolutely,
So it was really a matter of like one, finding that, oh,
there's an audience for people who enjoy what my perspective
is about certain things in the world, and then also
(32:06):
seeing like what's trending. I just had a video where
I was talking about I don't know if y'all saw
the little white girl. She's singing like on the intercom
on ADULTA line. The flights will see that in two
hours not share my perspective because one, I'm a traveler.
Two I've been on delayed flights before you're pissed off
is hot? They're not serving snacks like girl, nobody wants
(32:28):
to hear that at all. But also I'm bridging the
gap and understanding what white privilege looks like. Right, That's
something that matters to be. Race and power dynamics are
something that I can talk about all day long, but
now I'm tying it into travel, something that I do
all the time.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Yea, And people are like, WHOA, I never thought about that.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
It's like, let's think about these things like it can
be fun, it could be funny, but I also want
people to dig deeper to where it's like my child
would never be able to be received in that way
without being possibly us kicked off of a flight, you
know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
And so where you're thinking about doing content, I think.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
A lot of people in this day and age, unfortunately
think about the capitalism side, how much money can I make?
So like, I'm just going to do the thing that's popular.
And that's got me in hot water because I talked
about travel influencers. I'm like, y'all look like colonizers out here,
and when I.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
See in person, they're just like, I don't even know.
I want to say hello, But I'm like, that's the
reality and that's how I feel.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
And if you're unwilling to call the things the things
but you get opportunities that are rooted in a lot
of privilege, but you don't speak about things, then what
are we doing this for? And so I think in
every niche bucket that you have, whether it's fashion, whether
it's news, whether it's food, right, there's something in there
(33:49):
that ties that can tie your audience back to you,
maybe your own personal story, throwing some anecdotal aspects to it.
So I think, ultimately, when it comes down to it,
I believe that authenticity is key.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Even though I've heard people like.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Oh, just make up stuff go viral, I know you.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Don't have that audience, George.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
So I'm speaking to folks who are really intentional about
who they are and what it is that they do.
And if you're still trying to find that voice, that's
okay too.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Put that out there. Say hey, I'm trying this journey.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
I'm not sure where it is that I am, but
these are the things that interest me and this is
what it is that I want to share with y'all.
There's an audience for just about everything out here, you know,
So don't be afraid to be yourself and be authentic
because authenticity is something that we need. We really need
people to truly be themselves, even if that's learning who
it is that you are.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
Amen.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
I also want people not to focus on the numbers.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Don't focus on like, oh, this didn't do three million views,
Like that's not necessarily realistic because not everybody is going
to get something from that. If one hundred people saw it,
you're more than likely catching people who needed that message
or who really it resonated with.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
And now back to my conversation with Amani Basher. We
always have a segment called Georgia Tired from an old
column used to have of things that used to be
tired of other week, which I hope to break back
one day because I'm tired of so many things these days.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Maybe you could break that back on social media.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Maybe I can. I've impired hotel room prices. I just
do not understand them anymore. There are times I'm like, well,
if I'm going to New York, if every room from
Financial District all the way up to Harlem it's seven
hundred to night, where exactly am I supposed to rest
my head for three nights or two nights? So I'm
really getting frustrated with hotel prices lately. I just don't
(36:10):
know what's happening.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Inflation is such a real thing.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Yeah, I don't know what's happening. Is there anything that
you were tired of this week?
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Ooh? You know what?
Speaker 1 (36:25):
I am tired of black CIS men acting as though
they're somehow victims when they're not being victimized by us.
And when I say us, I'm talking about black trans folks,
black queer folks, and black CIS women.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
We are not victimizing you. That's what I'm tired of
this week.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
The conversations that have been circulating between this Diddy trial,
Tory Lane, all the things make it has made me like, really,
you know what I mean? And I'm thinking because now
it gives us an opportunity to really see how people
feel in society and saying with their chest the just
hilariouses of the world. Yes, and I'm tired of that.
(37:09):
I'm tired of folks that are not that are just
living in their day to day catching strays from folks
that for some reason we live rent free in your brain,
but that that is what I'm tired of this week.
Speaker 4 (37:25):
Yeah, No, it's been a rough week.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
It's just like people are really hurt, offended, I'm like,
but they people just trying to hold you accountable and
make you better people.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
That's that's really all. That's really all.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
It's boiling down to holding folks accountable and make you
all better people and.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Being safely in community, safely.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
In community with you. That's really all. That's really all
it is. Are there any words you're living by in
twenty twenty five ooh minus scorched to earth like as
the most banded aft in the country. I'm just like,
all right, if I got to go toe to toe
blow for blow with the United States government then get
to the Supreme Court to fight this, then that's where
we're at.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
I just do what we gotta do.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
I would say, say it with your chest. I say
it a lot in my videos. There's a lot of
cowards that hide behind podcast mics or trolls that don't
have profile photos and or even people that have themselves
as a personal brand that are afraid to name and
say the things. And I'm like, say it with your chest, like,
(38:25):
b be the thing that you want to see in
the world, because all the things that you're hiding from saying.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Even if it's the wrong thing.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
I appreciate the people that say the things the wrong
things with their chests because I can block them much
more easily. Thank you for saying that misogyny war with
your chest, block beauty delete.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Yes, that's it.
Speaker 4 (38:46):
Yeah, it's easier to fight the devil's we can see.
I always say that.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Now you can move on.
Speaker 4 (38:50):
I want to thank you for being here today. This
was amazing.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
Make sure y'all follow Imani, share your socials.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
She is Imani.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Be on literally everything you to, TikTok, Instagram, thrits.
Speaker 4 (39:02):
She is a b i am Aedi. She is a
maighty b Thank you for coming to fighting words.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Thank you so much, George, Love you so much.
Speaker 4 (39:11):
Love you too. When we revote is not for a
particular culture.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
We revote simply because, for many reasons, we can no
longer breathe. These are the words of Franz Finan. He
was a psychiatrist, a philosopher and a revolutionary thinker from
Martinique and one of the most influential figures of the
anti colonial and.
Speaker 4 (39:41):
Post colonial movements.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
Fanan was born in Martinique in nineteen twenty five, and
he worked as a psychiatrist in Algeria during the French
colonial occupation. There he witnessed intimately the psychological consequences of
colonial violence, how it can literally drive people to madness
and dehumanized them. He realized that it was impossible to
treat mental illness without addressing colonialism itself. Banan died of
(40:08):
leukemia in nineteen sixty one in the United States, only
one year before Algerian independence. His book Wretched of the
Earth was published shortly after his death and remains a
key text about revolutionary violence. Fighting Words is a production
(40:30):
of iHeart Podcasts in partnership with Best's Case Studios. I'm
Georgian Johnson. This episode was produced by Charlotte Morley. Executive
producers are myself and Tweety Puchi Guar Song with Adam
Pinks and Brick Cats for Best Case Studios. The theme
song was written and composed by Kole Vas, Bambianna and Myself.
(40:50):
Original music by Kvas. This episode was edited and scored
by Max Michael Miller. Our ihearteen is Ali Harry and
Karl Ketel. Following rape, Fighting Words. Wherever you get your
Podcasts
So when I booked a one way flight, I didn't
have a round trip flight back home. I did not
have a job lined up when I got to Cairo,
and I lived with someone, So it was a whole
just like literally like how they say, like jumping out
the plane and building your parachute on the way down.
It was one of those experiences of like it's plan
(00:21):
A and it's plan A, Like.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
This is either going to work or it's going to work.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Going to work, going to work.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
This is a Mani Bashir a content creator, activist, and
traveler who has lived in five different countries outside of
the US. She's become an advocate for black travel, for
Black Americans getting their passports, and she's going to talk
to us about how to see more of this world
and find community everywhere.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Ultimately, it came down to like you good, you good, Okay,
let's try let's try it, let's do it, and let's
see what happens. And so that became like two cities
in China that became giving birth to my son and
stretching Poland much closer to Germany than it is anywhere else.
We done like some long since in Malaysia, Thailand and Mexico. Yeah,
(01:08):
it's it's been a journey, but it's been an absolute blessing.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Now singing in them heavy handed, So with the world
take a superbranded coaching guy. You know what the plan is?
Speaker 4 (01:24):
O jama Latin, you know what to understand me. My
name is George M. Johnson.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
I am the New York Times bestselling author of the
book All Boys Are in Blue, which is the number
one most challenged book in the United States.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
This is Fighting Words.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
A show where we take you to the front lines
of the culture wars with the people who are using
their words to make change and who refuse to be silent.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
On the show today, Amani Bashir.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Today we are here with another one of my dear friends,
a sister, a confidant to someone who I love immensely.
Emani b how are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I am doing fantastic.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
I'm so happy to be here joining you on this
venture that you have. So I'm really excited for this
journey for you. So I appreciate you for inviting me
to be a part of that.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Yes, we've known each other for several years now.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
We knew each other on social media, but then met
in person on a birthday trip I had in Mexico. Yes,
and Amani showed up with this gift basket. We went
on the boat. It was just fab because one thing
about a mine, she knows other countries and that is
why she is the ultimate traveler. Do they call y'all
travel listas?
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (02:42):
We though, okay, travel LISTA. So we created new words
as well on fighting words. We always like to start
off the show the same way. People judges based on
our public personas they don't really know who we are.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
And so who is Imani?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
B Oh wow, that is a great question.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
I'm a lover. I'm a people person. I am communally
engaged and tapped in with my people, with my folks.
But I'm also a mom. I'm also a world traveler.
I'm also a freedom fighter of sorts.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
If you will love that, I love that.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
So let's start with the running joke of the United States,
which is I'm leaving the United States. Everybody online, everybody
on social media is like, I'm out of here.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
I'm going to Canada.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
I'm out of here.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
I'm going somewhere else.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
But people don't really understand what that fully means to say,
I am going somewhere else.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Other than the United States. But you do understand what
that means.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
The short term is an expat but it's really an expatriot. Correct,
So can you just even just give us like a
brief explanation of like what expatriation even means.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Yeah, I think a lot of people like cringe at
the term because we've often found that white folks have
coined themselves expatriates, and everybody else is an immigrant. Anybody
else migrating around the world is an immigrant. But I
get to be an expat. I get to be this
digital nomad, you know, while other people are demonized for
their choice of mobility. And so when we talk about
(04:09):
expatriation versus like immigrants, expatriation traditionally means somebody who's a
bit nomadic and they're not leaving permanently. They're kind of
out and then eventually they're coming back, versus like when
you're talking about like immigrant and somebody is supposed to
and we're talking about like textbook dictionary is someone who
is making a life holistically outside of their quote unquote
(04:33):
homeland and they're permanently staying. And so when we identify expatriates,
we can even identify our own folks. We can identify
James Baldwin, we can identify Audrey Lord, we can identify
Maya Angelou. So it's not that the term is not
something that you can use, and people will say it
all day long. They say it under my post, like
you can't say expat, you have to say immigrant. And
(04:53):
I say, in the quote of Audrey Lord, I can
define myself for myself, and so therefore, how it is
that I choose to divide myself, especially as someone who's
lived in multiple countries and who's also repatriated back to
the United States at some you know stages, is like
I can identify myself as an expect based on textbook definition.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Yes, then you have a very interesting story about when
you left the United States. Talk us about your experience
the first time, like you left the US.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Who.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
So I started my career in broadcasting. I really wanted
to be on TV. I thought I was going to
be like the Muslim Hee Jabbie play on Oliver.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
I thought I was gonna be out here child.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
And then I started interviewing for like these bigger networks
and was always some kind of excuse like oh, you're great,
but or you're great butt And it's like I just
knew they didn't know how to present me on television.
I started in radio, and that's where sometimes people want
you comfortable because you're not seen. Yeah, And so I
was at a stage in my career where I was
(05:54):
just like, I'm doing well, I know my craft, I'm
good at it, but I'm not there's no mobility and
where I'm looking to go. And Sandra Bland happened. And
when Sandra Bland was murdered, I really just dove into
her story. And she and I were the same age
at the time. She was like literally chasing her dream.
I think she was on her way to either interview
(06:15):
for a job or she was like on her way
coming from interviewing for like a role or something. And
I was like, she is me, And I could not sleep.
I could not sleep because I made myself her in
a sense of like, at any given moment, this can
be me, this can be me. I started to develop
an anxiety that I didn't have before. I started getting
(06:35):
chest pains, insomnia, all those types of things. And I
was working a temp job over the summer and it
just came to me move abroad and it was like
as clear as day as somebody like whispered it to
you in your ear. So call it God, call it spirit,
call it intuition, call it universe. All of it was like, girl,
get on out of here. And then I started making
a plan for myself, and my plan as a Sagittarian
(06:57):
was thirty days. I started off with like finding groups
of people that were already outside, like, hey, where are
the best places to go? I have a communications degree.
I don't know what I could do with that, And
started using community black folks, other black folks that were
already doing it as a way to help me learn
(07:18):
what it is that I needed to learn. And I
landed on Cairo, Egypt, and you know, people are always
like Cairo, and the honest and goodness truth was like
it wasn't intentional. I heard that you can make a
lot of money in the United Arab Emirates teaching.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
When I started talking to folks who had been.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Doing it, they were like, girl, if you don't have
a teaching license degree, they're not going to pay you.
And somebody in one of the groups was like, hey, Cairo,
they'll hire you as a teacher.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
They don't care what degree you just come on over here.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
So when I booked a one way flight, I didn't
have a round trip flight back home. I did not
have a job lined up when I got to Cairo,
and I lived with someone, So it was a whole
just like literally like how they say, like jumping out
the plane and building your parachute on the way down.
It was one of those experiences of like it's plan A,
(08:13):
and it's plan A, like.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
This is either going to work or it's going to work.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Because I had no extra funds, I had no other alternatives.
It was like, once I get here, I'm going to
have to figure it out. And that's what I did.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
And so you first ended up in Cairo, but you've
lived in five other is it five five other places?
Speaker 4 (08:33):
And you even had your son in Poland?
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Right, yes, that's what I said. Okay, So what was
that experience like then? Like you said the nomadic part
about it, right, because it's back and went to Cairo.
You start this new life and then you start more
new lives. It's like rebirths in different places.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
So I didn't know what was possible. Right.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
The interesting thing was I was teaching English literature in Ki,
so I was teaching tenth and eleventh grade, and you know,
I had to make it black and black.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
So my kids were reading Howard's, then.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
They were reading My Angelou, they were read I had
them reading all the things. And one of the things
that I correlated was with Maya Angelou. She was an
editor at a paper in Cairo and she also lived
in Ghana.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
And I was like, wait a minute.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
And I started to dig a little bit deeper about
some of our historical figures that have lived in multiple places.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
And I was like, oh, this is a thing.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
And you know, as I've heard you say before and speaking,
it's like, yeah, we know about our historical figures, but
until something really connects with us, we don't really deep
dive into these folks and their lives and what they've
done and who they were and et cetera. And so
about seven months into my journey of living in Cairo,
I met my son's father, who is from East Buffalo,
(09:50):
New York, a black man who had lived in Spain,
in Italy, and France.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
And I was like, wait a minute, that's a thing.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
You've lived all around the world, and so meeting him
was a catalyst to that nomadic journey because the way
that his work and contracts and stuff were set up
is like he could go anywhere based on where he
got a contract. So when we decided to get married
and create this life together, that was our journey. It's like,
we're gonna go wherever it is that you get these contracts. Now,
(10:18):
obviously we would do our homework, we would research these places,
but ultimately it came down to like you good, you good, Okay,
let's try let's try it, let's do it, and let's
see what happens. And so that became like two cities
in China that became giving birth to my son and stretching.
Poland is much closer to Germany than it is anywhere else.
(10:40):
We done some long since in Malaysia, Thailand and Mexico. Yeah,
it's it's been a journey, but it's been an absolute blessing.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Now you've been a big advocate for black travel at mobility.
It's like it's an important thing to see the world,
even if you can only get a small piece of it.
But what is like important about black travel and mobility?
And especially because the United States there used to be
the Green Book because it wasn't safe for black fols
(11:17):
to travel, but it's still not safe for black fols
to travel because there are still sundowntowns and we don't
talk about that enough. And I'm from Jersey and there
are still sundowntowns in Jersey that we don't talk about enough.
So what does it mean to be like an advocate
for black travel and mobility and even safety while doing it?
Because you also share a lot of tips on how
you stay safe while doing this too.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Yes, when we talk about green Book, we talk about
something that's so iconic to us as a people that communally,
we came together and we said we're gonna go. We're
gonna go where we need to go. We're gonna migrate, right,
because that's a human thing. Migration is not like yes,
so outside of us, like everyone around the world, migrants
(12:00):
for better.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
That's the reality, right.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
And black folks have had big migrations in the United
States multiple times, which is how we have ended up
in many different areas where you're like, woll okay, y'all
end up.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
It's like we did great migrations.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Exactly, and we were going for jobs, and we were
going for housing, and we were going for land, and
we were going to create families like we were going
in any community does the exact same thing. So we
are not so abstract from what the human nature of
us is to do is to move, it's to go right.
And so when we talk about green Book, we talk
(12:33):
about something that created a safety for us that says, hey,
we can go to these places, but also.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Avoid these places.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Don't go here after this certain time. And also we
do have a new iteration. It was created by a
brother named Lawrence called green Book Global. It's an app
and it integrates into Google. Yes, so if you are
somebody who likes to take a road trip, because the
United States is vast, it's a vast piece of land
that it's like travel doesn't necessarily often mean that you
(13:02):
have to have a passport. It's like going from Jersey
to New Orleans. You're getting so many different cultures in between,
You're getting so much different food in between, so many
different people, even language. And green Book Global Lawrence created
the app for that purpose of saying, we want to
enhance what it is our ancestors did with green Book
and make sure that we're still safe in the places
that we go. And the reason that I advocate for
(13:24):
travel is because I felt like I met myself in
so many places, and also understanding the ignorances that we
have about people until we meet them up close. And
so when I first started, very similar to you. My
parents are from Jersey and my parents went to Howard
(13:44):
University and my mom's.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Experience of being in DC seeing all those black people
getting to education.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
My dad's talking about how Debbie Allen, he saw Debbie
Allen dancing on around campus.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
It's like, these are the things that sparked them to say, no,
we don't have to stay where we are. We can
go to different places. And we went to Florida, and
we went to Georgia to busy cousins and aunties and
things of that nature. And then when I started my
career in broadcasting, we usually drove because we had the
marketing equipment which took us to states down south and
places that I never thought I would travel through. But
(14:18):
it was important to see that we exist there too.
And that's another thing that I think we have this
misnomer that black people are only in certain places.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
I'm like, we are literally all over the globe.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
There hasn't been one place that I've been that I
haven't seen us or some version of us of the diaspora,
you know. And so for me, I think it's it
gives you a better expansive knowledge of who we are
as a people, that when we say the words we
are not a monolith, traveling shows you that we are
not a monolith, and that we are a vast people,
(14:49):
and that we are migrating nomadic people as well.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Absolutely, A lot of people used to ask me, George,
why haven't you traveled internationally? I was like, because I
haven't figured out my own country yet. I was allowed
to go to places like this little city called Uray, Colorado,
with a population of nine hundred ninety eight people because
they have a public library, and I was able to
speak about all boys aren't Blue to pretty much half
the city showed up.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
But partly why half the city showed up was because.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
They didn't have many black people in that nine hundred
ninety eight population. They had even fewer queer non binary
identified people, probably less than probably twenty maybe ten in
that population. But we are, like you said, they do exist,
and we do exist. And I always say a lot
of my book sales are in very small cities throughout
the Midwest and out the South that you wouldn't think
(15:38):
that queer people were, but they are, even if they
can't be publicly who they are. So I always said
I wanted to figure out my country first and see
a lot of my country first. And I'm saying my
country because it's the country I live in, not because
I want to be very very clear. My ties to
America ain't like that. But my ties to black folks
in America are very strong. So I want to know
(15:59):
where black people were existed and learn more about them,
the culture, the roots and all of that. But this country,
you know, this land is your land, This land is
my land? Is not that so only we're singing right
now this is not my land. But I did get
a passport, and I have started to travel more to
see other cultures.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
And you know, I love Paris, France.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
It's one of my favorite places to go because we
have so many black Parisian friends over there. But you
have a passport initiative. Why do you think so little
black Americans hold a passport? And like, what is the
importance of making sure we have a passport?
Speaker 1 (16:31):
I think not that I think I know passports represent
mobility and privilege, and that's why we don't have them
as much as other groups. When you look at places
like Europe, when you look at the continent of Africa,
people have their passports at birth. I've even had people
comment on my social media, wait, Americans, why don't y'all
(16:53):
don't have a pastor how.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Much is it to get a passport there?
Speaker 1 (16:56):
And they're so amazed that, like, we don't have it.
And wanted to explain to people that number one, when
we talk about the entirety of Black Americans socio economically,
one hundred and sixty five dollars is not feasible to
spend on the document that you're going to put inside
of your dress or drawer. Right, So when I created
(17:18):
my passport initiative, I was like, hey, I just want
to remove one barrier, and that's the financial part of
attaining the document. But especially since we were coming into
this iteration of a presidential fascist.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
Right, the continuation of the fastiest occupation.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
I was looking at Project twenty twenty five and I
was looking at all the ways in which citizenship has
been under attack, and I've wanted Black people to arm themselves, right,
So it's not just Hey, this passport is a document
for you to be able to go to Mexico or
to be able to go to Jamaica. But it's also
(17:58):
an indication that, hey, I am here. And also it
helps people to have the ability that in the event
of because when we think of asylum seekers, most people
that seek asylum have a document to be able to
present to say I'm coming from this place, to come
(18:20):
to this place. I've learned from my audience because I've
never had to seek asylum somewhere.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
I got a chance to choose to leave the United.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
States, and I didn't have a lot of money, but
I wasn't facing destitution. I wasn't facing war, things that
people famine that are real to people. But I also
realized that some of our people are and that if
it came to the point in which we have to
seek greener pastures elsewhere, we have the document readily available
to be able to go. It's the opportunity presented itself.
(18:50):
So when I thought about the passport initiative, I was like,
I just want to kind of just condense that gap
of us that don't have it versus everybody else that does,
and to also allow people to then expand and dream
and say, now that I do have it, what are
the possibilities for me having this document and start to
make a different plan for themselves that says, you know what,
(19:13):
I want to use this, So maybe I will start
putting something aside to be able to go somewhere, or
maybe I'll get one for my child, or get one
for my mother or get one, which I've had people
in my comments say, you really inspire me to take
my mother to the post office and get her a passport. Yeah,
because she ain't never want to go nowhere. But whether
you go somewhere or not with it, it's usually better
(19:36):
to have and not need than to need and not have.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
Yeah, yeah, no, I think that's so true.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
And with real id with ice raids and people actually
not really caring about certain documentation because of the way
you may look cool, because of what your name is like,
it is super important now more than ever, as you said,
to have as much documentation as possible on you, because
these type of things can happen to any one of us,
which is why our oppressions are attached both domestically and globally.
(20:07):
And so Amani is really big on TikTok and big
on speaking out about what is going on in Palestine,
what is going on in the Sudan, what is going
on in the Congo, and so many other places, and
making sure that we have that information and we understand
how their struggles are tied to our struggles. I always say,
what happens elsewhere becomes a big indication of what's going
to happen to you here.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
And I feel like a lot of.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Times when you're watching international policies being acted, in international
violence being acted, they are test projects for what can
be done elsewhere, right, And so it's like you watch
the genocide and you watch these things happening over here,
and then everybody is shocked at ice rating places, and
it's like, but that's because that's how it started somewhere else,
(20:53):
and you watched it happen thinking it could never happen
to you, And so you just tell us about like
the importance of the connect the global struggle, and why
it's important that we advocate for those who are Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
You know, it's so imperative.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
It's been imperative, and I feel like our leaders of
the past and our respected leaders of today know that
and understand that like, we are a part of a.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Global community, a global majority.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Right, So when we talk about somewhere like a Sudan,
and we understand that what is happening with the people
of Sudan is as a result of the United Arab
Emirates and their control of being able to get resources
from the Sudan Like gold, gold doesn't come from Dubai.
(21:45):
So when people go to Dubai to buy their gold,
you are buying gold that.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Comes from the Sudanese people. Right.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
When we talk about what's happening in the Democratic Republic
of Congo, which is a literal genesis, it's genocides that
are happening to these people. And anything that we use
that's electronic, that is what it is. That they are
foraging out of this land. They are using child labor.
The Congolese people are suffering as a result of resources
(22:15):
that they simply just have in their land. So when
we talk about it, it's like the privilege that I
have to open up my math book and act like
these things don't exist is at the cost of somebody's
life over in the Democratic Republic of Congo.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Now, I may not be able to.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Change the fact that in twenty twenty five. Technology is
something that we need and use, and how we could
communicate and how it is that we are able to
speak to audiences, educate people, how it is that we're
able to bring awareness to things. But also I've learned
from Congolese activists, Hey, we're not telling you not to
buy something new, buy something refurbished. If you need to
(22:55):
get an upgrade, get a refurbished thing, or at least
speak about what it is that's happening put your money
where those things are. But also in talking about full esteem,
people get so up in arms about what is happening
over there, and I'm like, hey, when you look at
your cop cities and your communities like Atlanta, you will
see there's a pipeline between IDF, which is the Israeli
(23:18):
Defense Forces and our police departments, and that our police
departments in the United States and predominantly in black communities,
are being trained.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
By Israeli forces.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
And when we look at our HBCUs, when I'm an
HBCU alum, some of our HBCUs have ties to Israel,
and so where are their allegiances going to lie? When
it comes down to pipeline, how can we trust that
if you can do that to these people over here,
like literally carve out sections of people and land and
(23:49):
strip people of resources, that you won't do that to us.
Have we not seen that in Flint, Michigan. Have we
not seen what's happened over in La to Altadina black
commune unity, These black thriving suburban communities that all of
a sudden nobody has insurances to be able to help
people rebuild. And we look at Appalachia in North Carolina
(24:11):
that's still without running water. It's like, Hey, these are
happening in morsels, and because they're in siloed areas, it's
not one big block like Tulsa or the move bombing
in Philadelphia that people can say, oh, this is so intentional.
It's like, because you're living in your comforts over here
and you're not affected by the wildfires in Altadena, you
(24:32):
don't see how it's connecting to you. And it's all
literally connected. And if we don't see that, and we
don't come to the realization that we have to make
a cognizant effort to even support our most marginalized communities
at home, because everything starts at home, we won't recognize
the tyranny, that what it is that's being done to
(24:54):
folks over there is being done to us and vice versa.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
Yeah, and now back to my conversation with Ebonnie Basheer,
(25:24):
and so what is it that people can do more of?
We're on MacBooks having this conversation, like it's so ingrained,
you can't separate yourself from this because the products we buy,
the things that we need are a direct pipeline to
this six year old child industrudan, or the six year
(25:46):
old in the Congo digging for this mineral or resource
that eventually becomes your iPhone.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
So what can people do better?
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Because I think a lot of people also are afraid
to speak about injustice because of political pressure, backlashes, job security.
There are people who are very afraid, like if I
say this thing, I lose so much and I support
so many So how do I how do I balance
balance that?
Speaker 1 (26:14):
That's a hard line because we are a capitalist society,
right and however the ways in which we make our
money determines our livelihood. I don't have the expectation that
it is realistic for everybody to just go, you know,
gung ho, like I'm throwing away my MacBook and I'm
(26:35):
throwing away my eye. But it doesn't have to be
so outside of yourself. And I think people start with
with who you are and where you are and what
things matter to you.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Let's look at Miss Rachel.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Miss Rachel is a white lady that has specialized in
music education. But that lady will not stop talking about
what is happening in Gaza, and she has literally been
accused of supporting terrorist organizations just because she says.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
I love children.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
I love all children, and because I love all children,
I believe that all children should have basic things. You
know what I mean, and be able to say that
what are the things that matter to you?
Speaker 2 (27:18):
I am a mother.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
I cannot turn away from seeing these amputees, these children
that are without limbs, These mothers that are with are
no longer with partners. And that's for anywhere that is
experiencing this, including in our communities. And so as a
result of that, I cannot turn away. And I understand
(27:40):
that when it comes to these brands, when it comes
to these corporations, people are afraid of their dollars. But
if we recognize that there's more of us than there
is of them, and if more of us are willing
to speak on the things they're going to have to
shift with matters to them. We see what's happening with Target.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
I was just about to say, girl, okay.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Okay, watch this, hold my beer and see what happens
the same thing that's happened with Starbucks.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
You know what I mean, and anyone else can get it.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
We got pastor Jamal Bryan now that's starting to boardcott
with Dollar General and saying how harmful they've been in
our communities. And I feel like if we are brave
enough to say no more, no more will you create
destruction for money, No more will you try to dangle
(28:33):
that carrot of capitalism over our faces, right and say
your livelihood depends on you being quiet and silence.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Silence is complicity.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
And the sooner that you recognize that, and the sooner
that you recognize the chickens will come home to roost.
That's something that you turn a blind eye to that
will eventually come back to you. And so the first
part is recognizing your privilege and where you stand with
those privileges. And the second thing is recognizing that these
(29:05):
brands and corporations make money off of us.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
So it's not the other.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
So, yeah, they're providing services, but we can get those
services at a flea market. We could get those services
at a mom and pop that makes lotions or smell goods,
whatever it is that you're looking for. But it takes
for us to actually be diligent and understanding what's at
stake here. We don't get a civil rights movement because
people were like, well, I mean, but I gotta get
(29:34):
to work, I gotta I gotta get on the bus.
We don't get a Montgomery bus boycott because people were
just like, Ah, I'm gonna just have to get on
the bus. No, we got one because people understood what
was at stake for our communities and what it is
that we need it going forward. And sometimes that doesn't
directly impact us.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
In the immediate.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
But if you have children, nieces, nephews, a next generation
that's coming up behind you, what kind of world do
you want for.
Speaker 5 (29:57):
Them to switch gears just a little bit.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
You have a large following on TikTok, growing following on Instagram.
Videos are always just so curated, So what is just
like some of your social media strategies, what gives you
that thing to be able to wake up and be
like okay, because it's a job.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
I remember talking to a girlfriend of mine who like
she had been on TikTok. She had like over one
hundred thousand followers, and I remember downloading the app and
I thought everybody had to dance. So I was like,
oh right, Like I right, So I deleted the app
and I was like, yeah, this doesn't make sense.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
And I remember her telling me.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
She was like, girl, I do videos in my bathroom
with a bonnet. And she talked more about like womanhood, motherhood, spirituality.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
And things of that nature. And I'll just watched her
videos and I'm like, people really mess with it.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
I don't even know if since brushed her teet this morning.
And she was like, if it's in your heart to
say to share, Like that's what people like on TikTok.
It's not like Instagram, where sometimes it feels a little
bit more pretentious. It has to be more polished things
of that nature. And so just me being a Sabittarius
middle child and a certified yeapper, I was.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Like, oh, I can talk to myself one here, and
that's what it became.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
And originally it was like I want to talk to
black folks. About mobility and what life is like abroad
and answer whatever questions they may have about what this
looks like, because for some of us that ain't been
outside our neighborhoods might not be outside of our state.
It's like, wait, and you moved to Poland, girl, what
like tell me more? And so those were the conversations,
(31:43):
and then it became like, hey, let's not be a
Christopher Columbus when we're traveling. Let's not take that American
privilege when we're traveling, you know, And so yeah, absolutely,
So it was really a matter of like one, finding that, oh,
there's an audience for people who enjoy what my perspective
is about certain things in the world, and then also
(32:06):
seeing like what's trending. I just had a video where
I was talking about I don't know if y'all saw
the little white girl. She's singing like on the intercom
on ADULTA line. The flights will see that in two
hours not share my perspective because one, I'm a traveler.
Two I've been on delayed flights before you're pissed off
is hot? They're not serving snacks like girl, nobody wants
(32:28):
to hear that at all. But also I'm bridging the
gap and understanding what white privilege looks like. Right, That's
something that matters to be. Race and power dynamics are
something that I can talk about all day long, but
now I'm tying it into travel, something that I do
all the time.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Yea, And people are like, WHOA, I never thought about that.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
It's like, let's think about these things like it can
be fun, it could be funny, but I also want
people to dig deeper to where it's like my child
would never be able to be received in that way
without being possibly us kicked off of a flight, you
know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
And so where you're thinking about doing content, I think.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
A lot of people in this day and age, unfortunately
think about the capitalism side, how much money can I make?
So like, I'm just going to do the thing that's popular.
And that's got me in hot water because I talked
about travel influencers. I'm like, y'all look like colonizers out here,
and when I.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
See in person, they're just like, I don't even know.
I want to say hello, But I'm like, that's the
reality and that's how I feel.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
And if you're unwilling to call the things the things
but you get opportunities that are rooted in a lot
of privilege, but you don't speak about things, then what
are we doing this for? And so I think in
every niche bucket that you have, whether it's fashion, whether
it's news, whether it's food, right, there's something in there
(33:49):
that ties that can tie your audience back to you,
maybe your own personal story, throwing some anecdotal aspects to it.
So I think, ultimately, when it comes down to it,
I believe that authenticity is key.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Even though I've heard people like.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Oh, just make up stuff go viral, I know you.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Don't have that audience, George.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
So I'm speaking to folks who are really intentional about
who they are and what it is that they do.
And if you're still trying to find that voice, that's
okay too.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Put that out there. Say hey, I'm trying this journey.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
I'm not sure where it is that I am, but
these are the things that interest me and this is
what it is that I want to share with y'all.
There's an audience for just about everything out here, you know,
So don't be afraid to be yourself and be authentic
because authenticity is something that we need. We really need
people to truly be themselves, even if that's learning who
it is that you are.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
Amen.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
I also want people not to focus on the numbers.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Don't focus on like, oh, this didn't do three million views,
Like that's not necessarily realistic because not everybody is going
to get something from that. If one hundred people saw it,
you're more than likely catching people who needed that message
or who really it resonated with.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
And now back to my conversation with Amani Basher. We
always have a segment called Georgia Tired from an old
column used to have of things that used to be
tired of other week, which I hope to break back
one day because I'm tired of so many things these days.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Maybe you could break that back on social media.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Maybe I can. I've impired hotel room prices. I just
do not understand them anymore. There are times I'm like, well,
if I'm going to New York, if every room from
Financial District all the way up to Harlem it's seven
hundred to night, where exactly am I supposed to rest
my head for three nights or two nights? So I'm
really getting frustrated with hotel prices lately. I just don't
(36:10):
know what's happening.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Inflation is such a real thing.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Yeah, I don't know what's happening. Is there anything that
you were tired of this week?
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Ooh? You know what?
Speaker 1 (36:25):
I am tired of black CIS men acting as though
they're somehow victims when they're not being victimized by us.
And when I say us, I'm talking about black trans folks,
black queer folks, and black CIS women.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
We are not victimizing you. That's what I'm tired of
this week.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
The conversations that have been circulating between this Diddy trial,
Tory Lane, all the things make it has made me like, really,
you know what I mean? And I'm thinking because now
it gives us an opportunity to really see how people
feel in society and saying with their chest the just
hilariouses of the world. Yes, and I'm tired of that.
(37:09):
I'm tired of folks that are not that are just
living in their day to day catching strays from folks
that for some reason we live rent free in your brain,
but that that is what I'm tired of this week.
Speaker 4 (37:25):
Yeah, No, it's been a rough week.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
It's just like people are really hurt, offended, I'm like,
but they people just trying to hold you accountable and
make you better people.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
That's that's really all. That's really all.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
It's boiling down to holding folks accountable and make you
all better people and.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Being safely in community, safely.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
In community with you. That's really all. That's really all
it is. Are there any words you're living by in
twenty twenty five ooh minus scorched to earth like as
the most banded aft in the country. I'm just like,
all right, if I got to go toe to toe
blow for blow with the United States government then get
to the Supreme Court to fight this, then that's where
we're at.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
I just do what we gotta do.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
I would say, say it with your chest. I say
it a lot in my videos. There's a lot of
cowards that hide behind podcast mics or trolls that don't
have profile photos and or even people that have themselves
as a personal brand that are afraid to name and
say the things. And I'm like, say it with your chest, like,
(38:25):
b be the thing that you want to see in
the world, because all the things that you're hiding from saying.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Even if it's the wrong thing.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
I appreciate the people that say the things the wrong
things with their chests because I can block them much
more easily. Thank you for saying that misogyny war with
your chest, block beauty delete.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Yes, that's it.
Speaker 4 (38:46):
Yeah, it's easier to fight the devil's we can see.
I always say that.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Now you can move on.
Speaker 4 (38:50):
I want to thank you for being here today. This
was amazing.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
Make sure y'all follow Imani, share your socials.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
She is Imani.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Be on literally everything you to, TikTok, Instagram, thrits.
Speaker 4 (39:02):
She is a b i am Aedi. She is a
maighty b Thank you for coming to fighting words.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Thank you so much, George, Love you so much.
Speaker 4 (39:11):
Love you too. When we revote is not for a
particular culture.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
We revote simply because, for many reasons, we can no
longer breathe. These are the words of Franz Finan. He
was a psychiatrist, a philosopher and a revolutionary thinker from
Martinique and one of the most influential figures of the
anti colonial and.
Speaker 4 (39:41):
Post colonial movements.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
Fanan was born in Martinique in nineteen twenty five, and
he worked as a psychiatrist in Algeria during the French
colonial occupation. There he witnessed intimately the psychological consequences of
colonial violence, how it can literally drive people to madness
and dehumanized them. He realized that it was impossible to
treat mental illness without addressing colonialism itself. Banan died of
(40:08):
leukemia in nineteen sixty one in the United States, only
one year before Algerian independence. His book Wretched of the
Earth was published shortly after his death and remains a
key text about revolutionary violence. Fighting Words is a production
(40:30):
of iHeart Podcasts in partnership with Best's Case Studios. I'm
Georgian Johnson. This episode was produced by Charlotte Morley. Executive
producers are myself and Tweety Puchi Guar Song with Adam
Pinks and Brick Cats for Best Case Studios. The theme
song was written and composed by Kole Vas, Bambianna and Myself.
(40:50):
Original music by Kvas. This episode was edited and scored
by Max Michael Miller. Our ihearteen is Ali Harry and
Karl Ketel. Following rape, Fighting Words. Wherever you get your
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