E168: How I Coach The Top 0.1% CEO's in Silicon Valley w/Alexis John d'Amecourt

Alexis John d'Amecourt is the coach behind some of the most iconic CEOs in tech today—including the founders of Substack, Eigenlayer, and Booksy. In this episode of How I Invest, I sat down with Alexis to explore what really makes great CEOs tick—and what causes them to fall apart. We talked about how founders can build trust, navigate emotional turbulence, lead organizations as they scale, and get unstuck when things feel overwhelming. Alexis also opened up about his own story—from being raised by his grandmother in D.C. after a turbulent childhood to becoming a three-time founder turned executive coach. This conversation is packed with tactical frameworks, powerful analogies, and a ton of heart.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
There's this misconception out there that CEOshows manger sometimes.

(00:05):
You know, they gotta rattle some chains.
And I see it a lot of times with younger CEOswho believe that that's the persona they should
have.
And I'm saying is, you know, a lot of times,especially with those tech, I point out to them
that when you get angry with someone, youusually have to go back and apologize.
I've worked with over 80 CEOs, and I watch howthe most successful do it there.

(00:28):
And I've never seen any of them go ballistic onpeople and scream at people to get them to
move.
I work with such good people, CEOs, are justreally good people.
Four of my first five clients I ever had, Istill work with them.
And so I'm watching them grow orgs from 11people to 50 to a hundred to a 50.

(00:51):
One of them has 3,500 employees.
Still the same guy.
It's good to see.
Today, I'm excited to welcome Alexis Demacour,head of coaching at Motri Method and trusted
advisers, some of Silicon Valley's most dynamicCEOs and founders.
Alexis has spent over two decades as a threetime founder, c suite leader, and now as a

(01:13):
coach behind leaders at companies likeSubstack, AgentLayer, Booksy, and more.
In this episode, Alexis shares a rare insidelook at how he helps top executives get unstuck
from their biggest problems.
We'll dive into his frameworks for navigatinghigh stakes decisions, his approach to blending
personal and professional growth, and what he'slearned from coaching the leaders shaping

(01:34):
today's tech landscape.
Alexis, welcome to the How Invest podcast.
Alexis, you coach some of the top CEOs andexecutives on the planet.
Brag a little bit about your clientele and someof their accomplishments.
First and foremost, let me brag about them thisway.
They generally care about their colleagues.
They're good human beings.

(01:55):
They are really absolutely smart.
They're absolutely focused.
But I'd say the one thing is they they'vereally figured out how to balance that focus on
product for customers with also being goodpeople, and also balancing having a family.
At Substack, I coach Chris Best, who's the CEO.

(02:16):
Substack is now in the zeitgeist.
It's everywhere.
And he's still just excited about his kids andtheir performance at school, which he shares.
I'll just highlight a third.
Shauram Khanan from Eigenlere.
I've been working with him from the very firstday of their startup, And the best photo I have

(02:36):
of him is not the one with all of his engineersthere, everyone.
It's him holding his daughter who has mouseears on because he got to take her to
Disneyland.
And those are good people, and it's nice towork with those good people.
And why would the CEO of Substack or EigenLayeror Booksy need coaching?
And who is coaching really for when it comes toexecutives?

(02:59):
Now coaching is coaching is everywhere.
I think for CEOs, though, it's a little bitdifferent.
It's like, look, CEOs have their exec teams,but they can't really go to their exec teams
with everything.
They have their investors.
Sometimes they go to their investors and theirinvestors are like, Hey, look, I want a 10x
return.

(03:19):
They go to their board.
Their board looks at them and goes, That'sgreat.
However, let me tell you how I used to do this.
And what happens is everyone they go to has anagenda.
And so what I like to say is, look, I justdon't have an agenda with you.
And two, if you tell me something, you're notgoing have that awkward moment of seeing me two

(03:40):
hours later in the kitchen or by the watercooler.
And you're like, Hey, how's it going?
I just told you this thing that's thisvulnerable moment I had that I'm working
through.
So I also feel like, look, the best athletes inthe world have coaching.
I believe that there are skill sets.

(04:00):
We're building skills.
No one's born a true leader.
No one's born with all the answers.
So sometimes they're practicing with me.
Sometimes what they're doing is they're saying,I have these personas I wear.
I have these preconceived notions, or I'm justscared.
And so I'm a person feel like I'm in the cornerwith them in a boxing ring.

(04:22):
And sometimes I'm just fixing that cut.
I'm giving them some encouragement.
Sometimes I'm just listening to them so theycan kind of purge it out of their system.
So I think everyone in that high pressure roleis learning how to be a leader, a manager.

(04:43):
And there's one other aspect to this as well,is that it's not always you don't pick up a
skill and then that's it.
You have it forever.
There can be times when you go back below theline and you need someone there who says, You
know what?
I'm only invested in you.
I'm not invested in the success of the company.
I don't have the equity here.
So I'm only invested in you.

(05:05):
So I'm going to point out these things.
And they appreciate that.
And I think that's a big reason why CEOs need aCO coach.
You mentioned a lot of top athletes havecoaches.
There's obviously famous cases like Tiger Woodswith a swinging coach or Shaquille O'Neal with
his free throw coach or a boxing coach.
But which athletes actually have a overallcoach?

(05:25):
And talk to me about that within the field ofathletics, and what are the best practices
there?
Such a good question.
I think what they need as well is someone whogoes, look, I'm gonna look at your skill.
I'm gonna look at your technique, but I'm gonnaask them to help you with your mindset.
And, know, look, when top athletes, CEOs,sometimes are going into an off-site, a board

(05:51):
meeting, an all hands, or they have to have acritical conversation with somebody.
They're kind of like this fight or flightfeeling.
Sometimes they need somebody else to just say,Hey, have you thought of this?
Or, Remember, it's not about you.
It's about this.
So that's why I think that corresponds wellwith top athletes who are going into maybe a

(06:18):
big game.
You just need someone to say, Hey, these arethe things to focus on.
Don't worry about the rest of this.
Or let's put something around you, a frameworkthat allows you to focus on the priorities and
not those secondary things.
Sometimes it's just really good as a businessleader to have someone in your corner that has
no conflict of interest but yet has high vestedinterest.

(06:40):
It's it's kind of a paradox.
Is is coaching just a euphemism for therapy?
How does coaching differ from therapy?
And is it just another packaging?
Yeah.
Many of my CEOs have therapists.
And there's a moment when they start revealingthings to me where I'll say, I'm not a

(07:02):
therapist.
And they're like, I get it.
So I focus on the two areas I know.
I'm a three time CEO who, you know, I foundedthree companies and I successfully drove all
those companies off a cliffs.
So I've learned.
I'm also a husband and a dad.

(07:25):
And I've made my fair share of mistakes as ahusband and as a dad.
So I can share my own experience.
And I'm wildly curious.
So I love going to find answers about things.
So I think that comes back to the point of,this is how I can help CEOs.
It's not that just that coaching is a euphemismfor therapy.

(07:47):
It's actually a disparate practice.
Absolutely.
I mean, look, we have frameworks.
Look, at the end of the day, I'm trying to helpa CEO build an organization that will deliver a
product to customers.
Right?
I'm not there to really I'm not there to delvedeeply into their psyche, into their childhood.

(08:08):
I will share some of my experiences and how asto open up and be vulnerable and say, Look, I'm
going show you an example of how either Iscrewed it up when I was a CEO or what I've
seen from others, but here's my background,right?
And it's also a way to connect with people,right?
So I use that, but I'm not on a long term arcof saying, I'm going to take you from childhood

(08:33):
trauma to adult.
I always keep one foot firmly in the fact thatwe're trying to get your company to be as
successful as possible.
Tell me about the problems that CEOs face.
Are they fundamentally different problems whenthey're at 10 employees, 100 employees, 800
employees?
And talk to me about how the nature of problemschange as a company scales.

(08:55):
When you start a company, you're a founder.
You're like an explorer.
You're an adventurer.
You're like, you know what?
It's not there and I'm going to make it happen,right?
You go into it with a lot of confidence andhubris and almost arrogance.
You're like, I'm going to make something new.
I think it takes a different breed of person.

(09:17):
So they start a company.
Usually what they do is they go, Oh, you know,I worked with this person who's really smart.
I'm going to bring them on.
Or, My roommate in college was fantastic atthis one thing I'm not good at, so I'm going to
bring them on.
So you have 10 people.
Most of them are people like either who tookthat leap of faith with you or are part of that

(09:41):
startup culture or who go, I don't haveanywhere else to go.
So this sounds like a good place to go.
So you're in this kind of battle for survivalconstantly.
But then you transition out of that, you findproduct market fit, and you start realizing
some of these people who started with me aren'tactually able to grow with the company.

(10:01):
So you know what I'm going do?
We have a bunch of funding.
People are telling me we're going to be huge.
I'm going to go hire that person fromMicrosoft.
Yes, we have 15 employees.
Let me go see if I can hire that senior VP withtwenty two years experience at Microsoft.
And then what you find is they get in therebecause actually that person has their own

(10:22):
agenda.
Their agenda was, you know what?
I was at Microsoft.
I wasn't promoted fast enough.
I'm really awesome.
I want to be in a company now.
I'm going to show everyone that I can do it onmy own.
And then they get into there and they realizethat it's a completely different mentality, the
startup mentality, right?
Is that there is no framework.

(10:44):
It is flying by the seat of your pants.
There is no like, What are the policies?
And oftentimes it's, We're going to work allnight.
Well, no, I have to go home.
My wife, we have twins.
And so there's that fit that kind ofdeteriorates over time.

(11:04):
So what then I see is you then bring in somepeople who love that stage, that 10 to 100
stage, and they have self awareness that thatis the stage.
Then when you get to 800 employees, that's thetime when you bring in people who have run big
orgs that don't need so much hand holding.

(11:25):
It's more kind of bigger picture.
And they've seen a lot of issues.
They how to They have their own frameworks.
Nothing surprises them anymore and they'reready to take it.
But they're at a certain stage of their career.
What I've seen a lot of times is they're at astage of the career, they at 800 people and
above, this is their time to make their bigmark.

(11:47):
This is when either they're making retirementmoney or they're like, I want to accomplish
that big thing in my career, and this is it.
CEOs come to you with their hairiest problems.
How do you go about getting CEOs unstuck onspecific problems?
First thing I ask them to do is where are youemotionally?

(12:09):
Where are you in your head right now?
What I want to see is, what I want to sense is,are they in flight, fight or flight or freeze?
Where are they in their head?
Meaning, are they in their amygdala?
Which means, you know, they're back on theSerengeti.
They're either sprinting away from that, Idon't know, wildebeest, or they're going to

(12:34):
attack it, right?
But when you're in that part of your mind,you're not open to creative thinking.
You're reacting.
So what I try to do is I shift them away fromthat.
So once you shift them away, and it's eitherthrough acknowledging what emotions you're
feeling right now, describing what the problemis, taking a moment to calm down because

(13:00):
calmness in stages is then I have a framework,which is a simple thing called issue, propose,
solution.
So what we start doing is let's break down theissue.
What simply, what is the issue?
So let's block out all the noise and starttyping out that issue.
And I have them do it on Zoom.

(13:22):
So we're sharing something, they're typing outthe issue.
And then I asked them what I think is thecritical question, which is how did you
contribute to this issue?
And it's because so often CEOs are like, Oh,you know what?
It was my head of engineering.
It was like that, that, that.
But I go, Hey, I'm going to press you and I'mgoing challenge you.
How did you contribute to this?
And so usually upon that reflection is a lot ofwhat the solution to that issue is.

(13:49):
So then we write out a proposed solution, breakit down into actions.
And then I ask them to do the very firstaction, just start.
Because attitude follows action.
And so once they start doing the actual work,I've seen the transformation.
Three weeks ago, I had a CEO who's in a SeriesB, was closing a Series B, and his lead

(14:15):
investor had two questions for him.
And he was literally in a state of panic.
You and me.
If we saw those questions, we would have beenlike, that one's a yes.
And the second one is two sentences.
But he was caring so much more.
Was like, For months I've been working on this.
I can't believe I've been away from theproduct.

(14:37):
And I just said, it took about twenty minutesto get him out of that state.
And I said, just answer those two questions.
Let's start with the first one.
He typed it out and it really was.
He typed out the word yes.
And then the second one he did a, I said, justwhere are you mentally?
He wrote it all out and I said, let's send itto him.

(14:57):
And I mean, David, the lift, the emotionalheaviness that was around him just lifted.
And he actually, within a minute, was crackingjokes.
And it was the most remarkable thing.
Sometimes you just need somebody by your sidehelping you, guide you through your process
that you trust and that you feel like you couldrely on?

(15:19):
Absolutely.
We all go through it.
The irony here is that right before thispodcast, I was on a coaching call with someone
who I, a CEO, that I greatly admire.
I've been to his off sites and I sit next tohim at off sites while he speaks to the whole
company.
And afterwards he comes to me and goes, Whatdid you see?

(15:39):
And I told him all these things like, Oh, thisand this, that.
And then today he was like, You have kind of afrenetic energy about you today.
What's going on?
I was like, I'm on a podcast soon.
I get a little amped up.
And he started repeating back what I've toldhim, which was, I'll tell you one of the main
things.
Put both your feet on the ground.
Plant them firmly so you're solidly planted.

(16:02):
Put your hands in your pocket or not yourpockets, in your lap, and look straight ahead.
Straight back.
So I'm doing that right now.
There's this concept in psychology calledverbal processing where you're basically just
having somebody listen to your problem couldhelp you solve the problem for yourself.
What percentage of the time are you justhelping CEOs verbally process versus being more

(16:26):
prescriptive in do this or do that?
Look, I don't have an exact process there.
It's an intuitive feel.
You know, you're just watching someone and youknow sometimes it's thirty seconds to help them
get out of it.
Sometimes it's twenty minutes.

(16:46):
But I do generally want them to describe what'shappening and then move on to something that's
more kind of a framework, a tactical framework.
Let's put stuff down on paper.
But you're absolutely right.
If you speak it out, the solution kind ofappears.
Some of your clients are some of the top youngCEOs in Silicon Valley.
They're these 25 year old geniuses, the nextMark Zuckerberg, the next Evan Spiegel.

(17:11):
How do you go about coaching people juststarting out their career in their early or mid
twenties and how they go about building reallarge organizations?
How do you help them through that?
There's that myth of like, they're 22, they're25 years old, they're a brilliant engineer, and

(17:32):
leadership and management are something thatthey don't have a skill set and they'll never
have it.
So this is what I see.
When they're 25 years old, they've beenengineering probably for ten years.
If you put anyone in a management leadershiprole for ten years, they're going to get good
at it.
So I tell them that.
Look, you've only been doing this job, thisleadership one, for two years.

(17:56):
You've been an engineer for ten years.
You had tremendous skill, but you didn't startoff that way.
But you spent thousands of hours doing this.
That's what we're doing here.
Two, what I've seen is, look, a corporate CEOmoves up the ranks.
They've had twenty five years of training,leadership courses, off sites.

(18:17):
So they're going up through the ranks andthey've had mentorship.
So what I try to show them is, Look, here areother CEOs who are at the same stage as you,
and these are the mistakes they made.
These are their concerns.
And again, it's about taking those concrete,actionable steps to grow those management

(18:37):
muscles.
Also, sometimes I tell them, Look, just go befounder.
You love the product.
You love engineering.
Go in there and have fun with that.
And I also tell them, Look, you're not thefirst CEO to have this issue.
And again, when they hear that, they go, Oh,are you real?
I'm not?
It's so obvious that they're not.
But sometimes they just need to hear, Hey,you're not alone.

(19:00):
And they love hearing about, Did this unicornCEO have that issue?
I mean, some of them are like, Look, part ofyour coaching, please tell me others have had
this problem.
I'm like, Absolutely.
I had it three times.
Sometimes they're looking to outsource theircourage or their hope to a coach.
I like to think they have that courage and hopeinside them, but they're fixated on one issue.

(19:25):
They're fixated on a persona they're supposedto have of invincibility.
Here's another myth.
They walk in, they think they have to have allthe answers.
And once you tell them, No, you don't have tohave all the answers.
In fact, that's why you're building anorganization, because you don't have the
answers and you have to go to others.

(19:46):
And so once they go, Wait a minute.
I don't have to come in with every answer?
I'm like, No.
In fact, tell them.
You don't have any answers.
Help me.
People will open up and they'll trust you evenmore.
There's this noncontroversial belief in SiliconValley that the main function of a CEO is to
lead, to fundraise, and to storytell.

(20:07):
But yet, the way that Silicon Valley companiesare set up, the CEO is also the chief operator
and the chief manager, and there's not really adecoupling practically.
Talk to me about that.
Should a CEO also be the chief manager?
And, you know, what are the pros and cons ofthat organizational structure?

(20:33):
This is how I've explained it to CEOs.
You have to be able to manage yourself first.
So concentric circles around you.
If you can manage yourself, that's the firststep.
Then learn how to manage those you talk toevery day.
Experiment.
Be vulnerable with them.

(20:53):
Build trust.
And then the third circle is lead your company.
So this thought that they have to be operators,the thought that they have to have all the
answers, as I mentioned earlier, is a myth.
And as soon as they become comfortable withthat, that if they don't have all the answers,

(21:14):
that they can go out and they can ask theircolleagues for help.
It transforms them into going, Okay, what am Igood at?
Why am I hiring others?
So I had this really interesting moment earlyon in my coaching career with a CEO.
It was during an off-site and their company wasabout 25 people.

(21:36):
He had built the original architecture for thesoftware they were building.
But he had been focusing on fundraising and theother parts of being a CEO.
And he looked around the room and he goes, I'mno longer the best engineer at this company.
There's this kind of displeasure.

(21:56):
And then he goes, Wait, I don't even think Ithink every engineer in my company is better
than me.
And he started tearing up.
And it was like he had lost or he had realizedthat this kind of moment, in that moment,
realized that the thing that he had alwayscarried around there, he was this fantastic

(22:17):
engineer, he didn't have that any longer.
But at the same time, he went, Wait, this is agood thing.
It's good.
I should be in a room filled with people whoare better than me.
And of course, I started pumping my fist.
Was like, that's that was coaching.
There's this paradox that if you're doing theright job and hiring people that are better
than you, at some point you go through thisexistential crisis of what is my purpose if

(22:42):
everybody is better than me, everybody's betterat sales, everybody's better at engineering,
everyone's better at product development.
There's this kind of paradoxical situation thatthe best founders find themselves in.
Think the best founders retain that belief thatthey have the vision for the company.

(23:03):
And it's when they stop pushing the company andthen when they stop pointing out kind of the
navigation or where they need to go, yeah, Ithink that's when they finally decide they need
to step down.
They don't have that passion for the vision.

(23:23):
Come on.
It still comes down to we build product forcustomers who want them.
And if you lose that, then you're not a CEOanymore.
Think a lot of founders also underappreciate,even though they might not be the best engineer
or the best salesperson, they do they are thatunique unicorn in that they have a little bit

(23:44):
of of everything.
So they might be, you know, horizontally havemany different skills, maybe not all hundred
out of a hundred, but they uniquely have allthose skills that takes to build a company and
to lead a company from the front.
There are two types of CEOs.
There's the founder CEO.
And the founder CEO, like I said earlier,they're explorers.

(24:06):
They're adventurers.
They are going uncharted waters.
And they have to have the belief in themselvesand the belief in the product.
So they focus really.
They're so laser focused on the product,product, product, product.
It's great.
Let's get the product perfect.
Let's keep it innovating that product.
And then there's the second type of CEO.

(24:27):
Still does, it's very important, but they'vecome up through the org and they become sure
that they know the product's important, but thecompany becomes their product.
The running of the company becomes the product.
And I think that's the difference.
This is founder mode, which is I'm obsessedabout our product.
And then older companies, more maturecompanies, we're obsessed about the operating

(24:53):
of our company.
And my whole thing is, look, I love the founderfocus on the product.
When you look at the companies that are mostsuccessful, what percentage of the CEOs are
using carrots kind of upside and vision versusthe stick and kind of the the risk of losing

(25:15):
out.
Some of the most productive organizations inhistory like GE or Goldman Sachs routinely
fired the bottom 10% that worked for thoseorganizations.
Talk to me about the best practices andstartups and whether it's the carrot or the
stick that really drives the power lawoutcomes.
Let me talk about that kind of Jack Welsh andMark Zuckerberg theory of, Hey, every year we

(25:43):
cut the bottom 10%, bottom 20.
Look, most of the companies I work with haveunder 500 employees.
Many of these CEOs know who's been hired.
They know who they're going to be letting go.
They take it deeply personally when they know.
But they also, they already come to the tableknowing this.
If they have that kind of, if they make thosesweeping layoffs of the bottom 10%, they know

(26:09):
that these people who are people who playmortgages, who are real people, then have to go
back out in the workforce and say, Yeah, I leftthis company that has this policy of the top
bottom 20% leaving.
So it's like they have a scarlet letter.
So what I advise CEOs is, hey, look, whenyou're firing someone, it's not their fault.
It's your fault.

(26:29):
You either hired them and they didn't reallyhave a clear understanding of what they needed
to do.
You let them into the company.
So if you have to fire them, that's really onyour shoulders.
What are you going to do to help them get to aposition that where they're going to thrive?
Give them a good severance to help them untilthey get their next job.

(26:53):
Be their biggest advocate.
So that's what I see is like, look, it's notcarrot and stick.
It's rather where were you responsible?
How were you responsible for hiring someonethat didn't work out at your company?
Was it culture?
Was it during the interview process?
Did you not do a good job anti selling them?

(27:15):
I mean, did you tell them, do they come inthinking they're going to work thirty hours a
week, but every engineer works eighty hours aweek?
Were there misaligned expectations?
Did you hire someone who only worked in an orgthat had 5,000 people and you're a 20 person
startup?
So I put the onus back on to the CEO.

(27:36):
I do that a lot, which I say, how are youcontributing to this issue?
Double click on this concept of anti selling.
And what are some examples?
Anti selling is internally at our company,we'll say things like, look, if you're not open
to feedback, this is not the right place foryou.
If you're not willing to share yourvulnerabilities, if you're not willing to open

(28:00):
up and be there for your clients, this is notthe right place for you.
And so there are those moments where I thinkthe CEO has to be, or anyone hiring, has to go
through an anti selling phase of going, Look,this is the reality of our company.
Man, we're fanatical about product.
We got people who come in on Saturdays becausethey love to be here.

(28:24):
But if that's not the culture you want, thenthis is where you shouldn't be.
Look, I have CEO who makes the same joke allthe time.
Right?
He makes the same thing.
And he goes, you know what?
I'm really comfortable with making that joke.
It's not an off color joke, but it's the samejoke.
And he says, just pops in his head.

(28:44):
And he goes, if you don't like that joke, I'msorry.
I'm going to keep on saying it.
So when they enter the company or when they'rethere for a couple of months, they're like,
You're saying the same joke.
They were warned.
And again, it's not offensive.
But it's like saying, I'm going to tell you achicken cross the road joke all the time.
Okay.
There you are.

(29:04):
We went kind of the bottom 20%.
Let's go to the top 10%.
What are some characteristics that you knowimmediately this is a top 10% player?
What are some telltale early signs?
Number one, number two, number three, this isit.
They can solve multi step problems.
That's it, right there.

(29:26):
It's going to be about 10% to 20% of your org,or maybe 10% to 20 people out of your 500
person org who you can trust can do multi stepproblems.
There's going to be another portion that can doone step problems.
You say, Hey, here's a problem.
They can figure that one step out.
Great.

(29:46):
And then there are others who need to be whoare more successful when you tell them, Here
are the steps you have to take, and they on it.
Let's double click on the motivation of the top10%.
Do they have to be managed or do you have tojust align incentives and then they kind of
manage themselves?
Is managing someone or having to manage them asign of a non top 10% performer?

(30:10):
So when I hear you say that, I think of it likethis.
I I think they haven't developed as a manager.
They don't have the experience yet.
So when you're looking at senior manager,senior leader at a company, you'd be surprised
of how vulnerable they are, how aware they areof their skills, where their deficiencies are,

(30:36):
how much joy they have in what they're doing.
Right?
They also know how to set up boundaries.
And I think they're able to have conversationswith the CEO or whoever their manager is, and
they set boundaries from the beginning.
They have that kind of experience andconfidence to speak that way.

(30:57):
I think what happens though when you havepeople who are more inexperienced in an
organization, they tend to do as they're toldand not ask questions about how to do it or
express their own feelings about what they'redoing.

(31:20):
Thank you for listening.
To join our community and to make sure you donot miss any future episodes, please click the
follow button above to subscribe.
One of the things that because you always haveto be conscious of your weight as the leader of
a company and how people will oftentimes takeyou literally and one of the things I try to
always instill is I'm going to ask you to dosomething and I'm going to tell you how I think

(31:41):
I should do it but there's probably smarterways to do it and don't take me literally take
take me figuratively in that this is what Iwant to accomplish, not this is how I want you
to do it.
The CEO is the loudest voice in the room.
CEO says something and their exec team, anyonethere is going to go, Oh, you know what?
I hadn't thought of that.

(32:02):
And I think that's the right answer.
So what I advise CEOs to do is be the last toshare your opinion.
So you may write it up and you may be doing awritten brainstorm, but paste it in last so
people read that last.
Because what you'll find is even the mostconfident, capable executive will go, Well, you

(32:23):
know what?
I see some point in yours.
And they'll show that.
So that's what I say.
I also say to new CEOs, especially as everytime you walk in the room, everywhere,
someone's going to look over you and be like,There's the CEO.
And they can't help but look over and think,Are they noticing me?
Is this it?
Your presence is always felt.

(32:43):
Three, I recommend CEOs phrase their requeststhis way.
Would you be willing to do X?
Because when we tell people to do something,they immediately go, Wait, should I or should I
not?
I don't know.
Okay.
But you're the CEO.
I have to do it.

(33:03):
So it comes from the old concept of command andcontrol.
Fifty years ago, it was hierarchical and theboss said, Do it and you did it.
So now though, it's not that we don't want ouremployees and we want to give them a bunch of
choice and we want to say, Hey, if you feellike it or not.
No, but what we are saying is, Hey, would yoube willing to do this?

(33:26):
Gives people a moment to go, Yeah, I would liketo do that for you.
What are some common mistakes that the mostexperienced or the smartest CEOs make when it
comes to managing their employees?
The big issue there is the co concept of, youknow, what are you doing with anger and fear?

(33:47):
Is fear giving you bad advice?
And so a lot of times, they will get stuck in aconcept that they're listening to fear and it's
holding them back from doing something.
And what I've found again and again, I'll makea wager with you, is that fear gives you really
bad advice because you're still in theSerengeti, and you're like, I must run.
But in the boardroom or in that executivemeeting, it's actually that fear is giving you

(34:11):
bad advice.
And actually, usually, 180 degree change willhelp you with that.
So it's usually the opposite will happen.
The other thing I find is with anger is thatthere's this misconception out there that CEOs
show some anger sometimes.
You know, they got to rattle some chains.

(34:32):
And I see it a lot of times with kind ofyounger CEOs who believe that that's the
persona they should have.
And I'm saying is, you know, a lot of times,especially with those tech CEOs and not the
technology business, but the engineer CEOs, Ipoint out to them that when you get angry with

(34:53):
someone, you usually have to go back andapologize.
And how much time does that take?
And you should see them.
They go, Wait, yeah, wait, I had to schedule ameeting that was forty five minutes to go
apologize.
And that's forty five minutes of time andyou're so productive.
And they're like, Oh yeah, you're right.
I shouldn't get angry at people because it willtake me forty five minutes later to apologize.

(35:14):
I'm like, it's one way to think of it.
So to answer your question, yeah, I think a lotof CEOs stumble on those, how to handle their
emotions.
Play devil's advocate, some of the topmanagers, most famously Steve Jobs, and they
have these really high bars and anger or abreak in rapport has been a way to continuously

(35:41):
increase that bar.
Talk me through when the best practice is kindof this Steve Jobs type of approach versus more
collaborative approach.
And when should a CEO use one or the other?
I think we're falling into that habit, or we'refalling into that thing, which is here are
these mythical figures in tech, and we've readthese stories, the Walter Isaacson book, or

(36:05):
we've watched the movie about Steve Jobs.
We're like, Oh, he just yelled at people.
He got them to do the greatest work of theirlives.
But these are at times fictional accounts.
I'm not sure how he did it.
But I've worked with over 80 CEOs and I watchhow the most successful do it there.
And I've never seen any of them go ballistic onpeople and scream at people to get them to

(36:31):
move.
I think in this day and age, especially withremote, people will go, I'm out of here.
You're going to scream at me?
Yeah.
They want someone, they want a leader that putsthem in a position to work on really cool,
really cutting edge things.
But when you lose your mind on someone, itsends them into a panic.

(36:56):
And I don't believe they're going to do theirbest work.
So again, I say to CEOs, if you do that, you,one, will break trust with them.
And they'll look at you every time and think,Is that person going to snap at me?
And then two, they're going to go, Look, withremote work, I'm one click away from a job for

(37:19):
working for somebody who will support me, willpush me, but will not destroy me.
And people are much more likely today to go, Ican find something else.
I'm not gonna put up with that.
There's a subtlety there where you don'tnecessarily wanna go yell and go ballistic, but
there is room to say, look, you could dobetter.

(37:40):
Here's ways to think about it.
This isn't good enough.
Let's focus on how to make this better in acool and calm demeanor versus going ballistic,
which puts somebody in that fight or flight,amygdala like response that keeps them from
achieving their best work.
Absolutely.
I see it all the time.
Do you see room for challenging and bringingout the best in people by asking them to do

(38:04):
better, by really asking them to expand ontheir current capacity?
Yeah.
People want to produce great work.
I believe at this level, these kind of verycompetitive startups who have vast potential,
people want to work with really strongcolleagues who push them to the best work

(38:27):
possible.
It's never just a CEO saying, You know what?
This is where we need to be.
You need a peer structure at your company ofhigh achievers because you want to look around
and go, I'm working with fantastic people.
This motivates me to do the work.
These talented people, I'm curious.

(38:48):
I want to learn and grow from them.
And so they'll filter themselves out of acompany because they go, This is where I want
to be.
I want to be around people who are as ambitiousas me, who are smart, who are curious, who want
to succeed.
And so that's what I see.
It's not just the CEO setting the bar.
It's your colleagues as well.

(39:08):
It's walking down the hall and going, Oh, thisis interesting.
This person was also stayed up on Friday nightstrying to find an answer to this.
So I want to be around those kind of people.
So I had an argument with my fiance, Jessica,and I told her some things that rubbed me the
wrong way or that I didn't like and in returnshe retaliated by telling me that the things

(39:29):
that she didn't like and my response to herfirst of all you know it it was not easy it
hurt my ego and I had to recover but I told herI want you to tell me how I could be better
Like, yes, it does sting, but I want to bebetter.
You're not punishing me by telling me to to bebetter.
Maybe it hurts for twenty four hours, but thatis the price of growth.

(39:50):
I think the price of growth is where weegotistically are today, and then it gets
there's pain about the the gap between where wethink we are and where we really are, and that
is the growth.
So I think that is the cost of growth, thiskind of brutal feedback that ideally is
delivered in the right packaging, in the rightcontainer, but sometimes, you know, that's more

(40:15):
of a nice to have than a new tab.
Can I coach you right now?
Yeah.
Let's do some coaching.
Let's do it.
Did you hear what she was saying?
I did hear it.
Yeah.
And But how did you hear it?
How did I hear it?
Mhmm.
I heard, you know, she gave me six pieces offeedback.
It took me thirty seconds to process.

(40:37):
I thought about it, Did
she feel heard?
Yeah, yeah she did.
She had a really good experience from it.
How do I know that or how did she feel heard?
How did she feel heard?
She told me this was like one of the bestconversations we've had because I think she had
been holding this in.
So she delivered the six pieces of feedback.

(40:58):
I immediately or after thirty seconds
Let me stop you there.
I'm gonna say is when, look, thirty years ofbeing with my wife, we started dating in
college.
I got the keg for her 20 birthday party.
That's how long we go back.
So let me say this.

(41:20):
The number one thing is when someone's givingyou feedback, the first thing I do is I repeat
it back to them.
I advise all my CEOs to do this, to just repeatit back.
Because 80% of the time, their colleagues justwant to be heard.
And it's so affirming when the CEO stops andgoes, hey.

(41:40):
So what I think I heard you say is boom, boom,boom.
Doesn't have to be exactly it, but it has to bethe gist of it.
And then you ask the person, Did I get thatright?
And it's just this moment of going, I wasn'tjudging you during that time.
I was just listening.
I'm going prove to you that I was listening.
So you repeat it back to them.

(42:00):
Now, I tell my CEOs to do this.
If I try to do this to my wife too much, she'slike, You take that voodoo coaching BS, you can
take it right out of here.
But there's sometimes when it does actually itreally does help.
And then after I say, when she says, Yes,you've heard me, I thank her for it.
And then I also say, Okay, this is what I'mgoing to do.

(42:24):
Or I accept your feedback or I don't, but thisis what I'm going to do.
Because look, what I've learned about my wifeis this.
Sometimes she wants a hug.
Sometimes she wants help.
Sometimes she just wants me to hear her.
I've learned more and more over the years thatit's usually she doesn't want my help.
But as a guy, I usually go, Oh, I can fix this.

(42:45):
She's like, I don't need you to fix it.
And as often, she just wants me to hear.
And I find that with CEOs and their colleagues.
If the CEO hears you and is not preparing adefense or preparing to judge what you've just
said, but he's going to repeat it back, man,that's so enriching, so affirming.
So the way that I handled it, you gave me thesesix pieces of advice.

(43:07):
I more or less immediately agreed with three ofthose pieces.
And I said, I'm aware of this.
Thank you for making me even more aware of it.
It is something I'm working on.
It's not something that I'm proud of.
I'm like, I'm on it.
I disagreed with what or one of her pieces offeedback was only half the story.
I agreed with that half, but I didn't I saidthere's also this part of that, and she agreed

(43:31):
with that.
She said, yeah.
I was you know, probably wasn't fair there.
And the other two, I'm just like, let me thinkabout that.
And the reason I processed it in this way wasbecause that was my honest position.
I don't believe in just giving lip service.
Somebody says something, you disagree withthem.
I don't think that's good for the relationshipeither, if you don't believe it to be So
as I hear this, there's a couple of things Iwould have done, is the three things you agree

(43:53):
with and you're like, look, I know this aboutmyself.
What actions are you taking?
Does she know those actions?
Yeah.
And do you go back and say, you know, in acouple of weeks, Hey, I've been working on
this.
Just want to let you know that feedback yougave me.
First of all, I so appreciate it.
Been there.
The one you didn't accept or need more, that'skind of like saying, I'd love to get or share

(44:16):
the other side of the story or something more.
Okay.
That's fine.
The two you need to come back to, would you bewilling to say to her today or tomorrow, Hey,
I've thought about this and I want to respond.
I want to tell you.
Or would you be willing to say, Hey, I'm stillthinking about this.
Get me to the end of the week.
Yeah.
Absolutely.

(44:36):
And we even talked about it this morning.
We talked about how we we both appreciate thefeedback, how it both hurt, but was was
important to talk about.
A lot of us, including myself, have seen a lotof nearly psychopaths, effective psychopaths,
not murderers, but psychopaths when it comes toseeing humans like objects and seeing them as

(44:58):
numbers in a spreadsheet become wildlysuccessful.
And it feels like if I was to hyperscale acompany from 10 employees to 10,000 employees,
some of that would be helpful in terms of beingable to manage just not having to manage the
emotions that are coming in with that kind ofgrowth and having to get rid of bottom

(45:18):
performers, all these things.
You keep on repeating that they're good people.
Isn't having a little psychopathy, maybe not,you know, true psychopath, isn't that actually
something that will enable somebody to growfaster?
And if not, why not?
I don't know.
You've mentioned psychopath a few times, andI've been thinking about this question because

(45:42):
we talked about it before, but I've beenthinking about this.
I think the psychopaths are more the types whoare like, I came up through an organization.
I had to step on people's shoulders and crushthem as I went up.
Because as I go up the ladder, I need to It's azero sum game.

(46:06):
I think CEOs, founders, we're talking aboutfounders.
I think it's a little bit different.
Because they're so focused on the product,that's where they become psychotic, is about
the product.
A lot of them come in, they don't care if theyhave the title of CEO.
A lot of them come in and go, Yeah, we decidedon the car ride, the Uber ride over to the VC's

(46:29):
office.
And we knew they were going to ask who's goingto be the CEO.
We were like, You're the CTO because you'rereally good at tech and you are operations.
And I'm the one with the vision and I'm good atselling what we do.
I'll be the CEO.
Right?
So they don't go in going, I wanna be the CEO.
I think a lot of them go into it and going, ifyou screw around with my product, I'll be

(46:54):
psychotic.
I wish I had a better answer for you.
Ego has become this thing that people openlytalk about.
One of my favorite books, my second favoritebook ever, Ego is the Enemy by Ryan Holiday,
really changed my thinking, in terms of how egocan be hurtful.

(47:17):
Yeah.
In the same vein, I also see with my own eyes,ego oftentimes acts as a shield in very differ
difficult environments.
A couple examples of that, Steve Jobs,obviously, with Apple and forcing a new way of
doing things, a new vision into themarketplace.
Travis Kalanick at Uber, some might argue thatthat ultimately led to his demise, but it was

(47:41):
certainly extremely effective for thatindustry.
Is there a place for ego?
And should should an organization respect theCEO's ego and should a CEO respect their own
ego in order to align themselves with success?
Ego.
Such a funny thing, isn't it?
I mentioned earlier that, look, among startupCEOs, you know, typically you need to have a

(48:06):
healthy ego because you're going, Look, I'mgoing to literally try to create something from
nothing.
There was not a company there, right?
There's no origin story.
It wasn't like, And thirty five years ago, mybrother and I started this company.
No, out of nothing.
So you have to have a certain amount ofconfidence.
It's even one could say it's like audacity andyes, I can build something new.

(48:30):
And I think that's healthy ego.
But there needs to be this delicate balancebecause, look, there's healthy sense of ego.
I think that's what you're talking about withSteve Jobs, who was like, I have a vision for a
product.
Let's go make this.
And I think his ego, where you saw this myth ofhis anger would come out when it's like, I want

(48:54):
this product to be amazing, right?
So that's good.
I think when ego becomes destructive, it's whenit's driven by something like insecurity.
When CEOs become afraid to listen, when COsthink that showing vulnerability is a weakness,

(49:15):
or when they become defensive when they, youknow, they get feedback from people.
And that's when they close down.
So that's an unhealthy form of ego.
The best CEOs I work with, they've learned tokeep their egos in check.
Either they have a kitchen cabinet of peoplewho will tell them the truth or tell them

(49:41):
things that they don't want to hear.
They'll, when they use their ego to inspire, totake risks, and also stay resilient.
That's one of the key jobs of a CEO, be afounder, to be resilient.

(50:01):
But those with the healthiest egos surroundthemselves with great people who will give them
feedback.
And those with strong egos, they're willing tohear the uncomfortable truths and react to
those.
So I think that's the balance between healthyand destructive egos.
The way that I look at ego is it's a variable.

(50:24):
It's kind of like part of the recipe of asuccessful startup and a successful founder,
and it's all contextual.
For example, if Travis is in the early days ofUber and taxi lobbies are trying to crush him,
corrupt politicians are trying to keep them outof markets.
If it makes him feel better to fly first classversus in the main cabin, if that really makes

(50:48):
that big difference so that he has more energyand more resources in order to take on the taxi
lobby, I think that could be a positive thing.
So I think there is a room for positive ego,when it's not destructive to an organization,
when it doesn't come at the expense of somebodyelse's ego or somebody else's productivity.
But I do think we've overcorrected in terms ofthinking that all ego is bad Because if you

(51:15):
look historically, the people that have reallychanged the world have had that extreme ego
that they will be the ones that will makethings different, whether it's the Wright
brothers had the boom CEO super the CEO of BoomSupersonic who said, I'm gonna bring back
supersonic jets.
For a while, probably people looked at him asthe most egotistical guy, but he made it work.

(51:38):
He he had the staying power to to see thatthrough.
So I do think there's been a little bit ofovercorrection.
I also think there's this personality theaterwhere people go around and tell investors how
they're they're flying in main cabin, howthey're the last to talk, and all these things
when in reality, if you were to follow them,that's not true.

(51:59):
So there's this kind of virtue signaling whenit comes to ego as well that's diluting kind of
the reality a bit.
I think you're absolutely right.
There are all these origin stories.
Right?
Know, so and so is worth $7,000,000,000, but Ialways fly economy.
Right?
And it's like, Okay, that's your story.
And then I've got others who will say, I onlyfly private.

(52:22):
I did seven hundred hours last year, but I hadto fly to Sweden to talk to this engineer and
joining our team.
Nothing says, yep, join our team, like showingup their doorstep the next day.
Sure.
What works for your company?
What works for you?
But going back to that original, which is egogets in the way when you're not willing to

(52:44):
listen to constructive feedback.
Ego gets in the way when you think only youranswer is the right answer.
And ego gets in the way when you penalize thosearound you who you may not like their response,
right?
When ego is covering up in insecurity, yeah,that to me is false ego.

(53:12):
Again, founders are a special breed.
When she goes, I'm going to go build thiscompany or build this around this product.
And that's pretty cool.
And I think it takes a healthy amount of egoand audacity to be like, Yeah, trust me.
I'm going to go build this company.

(53:32):
But I don't know about Travis.
I don't know about Steve Jobs.
I know from what I see with the COs I workwith, and there's a healthy balance of ego.
But there's also a little bit of glee in theireyes.
Like, Oh my God, let me go build this thing.
And so let's focus on that, that they're alsofulfilling a need they have and they're having
fun with it for the most part.

(53:55):
So I like to focus on that.
Certainly intrinsic motivation is so criticalbecause there's so many years of not having
positive feedback from the market of peoplethinking you're crazy.
You have to enjoy your craft, whether that'sbecause of ego, that's love for the product,
that's love for your organization.
You need to find some way to be intrinsicallymotivated every single day through going

(54:15):
through a very difficult pursuit.
Absolutely.
Look.
I I have CEOs who, you know, they say, if Icould just focus on the product and not the
people, be so much easier.
Yeah.
That's true.
But you need people around you.
So, Alexis, you yourself have a remarkablestory.

(54:38):
Tell me about your own personal story and howthat makes you a better coach.
Yeah.
So my story is, kind of unique in the fact thatI was, I was born in Spain to two kind of
hippie ish parents who were very good at makingthe kid, but the follow through wasn't their

(54:59):
forte.
And so off I was shipped to my grandmother'sdoorstep in Washington, DC.
And my mother was kind of dropped me on thisdoorstep, and she wasn't around.
And I saw her maybe ten, fifteen timesthroughout my life.
And my father, though, was around and I spent alot of time with him.

(55:22):
I was primarily raised by my grandmother untilhigh school.
And then I moved in with my father and mystepmother who were very loving, wonderful.
But I grew up in this kind of, look, I wasabandoned.
And when you're young, you go, I just want tobe normal.
I want the dream of the Noah's Ark of Americanprosperity.

(55:44):
Two parents, two cars in the driveway, twopets, two siblings.
I just want that.
And it wasn't until kind of my late 20s, Ibegan to understand how deeply those
experiences of being abandoned, of growing upin this being raised by my grandmother who was
an expat from Austria, who was a wonderful,amazing entrepreneur.

(56:07):
But I was left alone a lot.
And those early experiences shaped me.
And how they carve these kind of deep furrowsinto my emotional landscape.
And I found myself sharing these stories abouthow I was raised with people.
I used to do it at business school.

(56:29):
And I remember there would be a few people whowould look at it and go, Oh, that's not me.
And then I'd have so many more coming up to meand going, I share that background.
I share that experience with you.
And you start realizing everyone carries thesechildhood experiences that have shaped who they
are.
And I realized just how these universalfeelings of being different or unseen can be.

(56:55):
And it clear my story resonated with people.
Because we all struggle with these thingsprivately.
And by opening up, I fostered a level of trustwith people.
And I also unburdened myself of something thatI was ashamed of.
You shared the story on when we first chatted.

(57:19):
Tell me about the power of vulnerability andhow that helps you build connections with
others.
I've always felt like, look, everyone carriesaround some insecurity and some pain.
Those moments kind of define us as humans.
I think they define us actually more than anysuccess can.
And I share mine early with founders becausethat vulnerability establishes a real

(57:46):
connection.
And if I drop my mask and I share who I am, andlook, one of the quickest ways I do that is by
saying this kind of quip I have about my CEOcareer.
Look, I'm a three time founder and Isuccessfully drove all those companies off of
cliffs.
And I would say about 75% of founders go, Ohyeah.

(58:07):
And they laugh and they go, Oh, I know whatthat feels like.
And 25% don't react.
And so it's my way of opening up and lookingfor genuine understanding and empathy.
And does that ever backfire being so vulnerableand transparent about your background?
It has a couple of times.
And it used to hurt because I would say, Iwouldn't understand.

(58:29):
Like, are reacting to me as a person?
And I've just opened up.
Was being vulnerable.
Recently, I had a powerful clarifying momentaround this, which was, you know, a CEO once
told me openly he had less respect for me afterhearing my story.
And that stung initially.

(58:51):
But instead of retreating or becomingdefensive, I faced it head on.
And I asked him directly why he felt that way.
And in that conversation, I realized he wasreaching for the content and not the context of
what I was sharing.
The abandonment struggled, that's not what hewas talking about.

(59:11):
And I was reacting to his judgment of myvulnerability.
That shifted everything for me is when Irealized I could confidently and with curiosity
and openness ask him about that.
I was able to turn that into an authenticconnection with him, which far outweighed the

(59:32):
discomfort I initially felt.
When it comes to what's driving founders, thestory is always this grand mission.
My suspicion is that there there is a lot ofchildhood drama.
There is a lot of childhood trauma that'sdriving top founders, a lot of being unseen,
being unappreciated, unloved that leads them totake such incredible risks and go contrarian on

(59:57):
a specific space.
What percentage of founders are trying toovercome this insecurity, this abandonment or
lack of love in their childhood?
Honestly, probably about 150% of them.
It's a high number.
Look, none of us arrives in adulthood perfectlypolished, right?

(01:00:18):
We have baggage.
What we went through in childhood, even if ithas this kind of stereotypical or this what
society tells us is a perfect upbringing.
I think it's human nature.
We pick up on things as we're growing, as we'reaging, things that are limiting to us.

(01:00:44):
Even subtle moments shape us.
And so this is true of founders.
Have Look, you're right.
They have outside drive sometimes fueled byearly feelings needing to prove themselves.
The immigrant story, or they didn't get pickedfor tenth grade basketball, and that's driven
them.

(01:01:05):
But what's fascinating to me is seeing founderswho use these experiences to fuel their growth.
And then when they're aware of it, they canchannel it in ways that's productive.
And they turn them into powerful motivators.
So they're not just mired in this of selfreflection, but rather the power of that

(01:01:34):
awareness helps drive them to grow.
I find this 150% number is more or less correctwithin 10 percentage points.
But in seriousness, I do find that this driveis extremely prevalent in the top founders and
also the ones that really make it the distance.

(01:01:54):
If you think about Mark Zuckerberg saying no toa billion dollars, Evan Spiegel saying no to
3,000,000,000, They tend to be able to transfertheir drive from feeling a lack of to a grand
vision.
So they are able to take out that fuel and putin rocket fuel.
The extreme kind of fuel and extreme ambitionand also desire to truly change and carve their

(01:02:20):
own kind of their own vision into society.
So I do find that the ones that are purelydriven by that lack of do tend to sell early
and maybe not lead to the type of power lawsthat venture capitalists are looking for, the
ones that truly change the world, put thatZuckerberg, Evan Spiegel, I put Elon.

(01:02:40):
A lot of these people are mostly driven bypositive views of the future and how they can
make a positive impact even if even if a % oftheir motivation early on was due to the Slack.
Still, they're able to transition from thisdriven from lack to driven to to a vision.
I had this great conversation earlier todaywith the with Amr, the CEO of N Save, and she

(01:03:06):
was so excited about a framework they're gonnause internally.
And he said, I didn't get it from anywhereelse.
I'm not picking it up because I read anarticle.
He literally said this.
He goes, It's right for my company.
It's right for NSAID.
And I know it's right for how we're going torun our company.
And I was like, That's what I want to see.

(01:03:26):
It's like that first principle thinking.
Same thing I hear all the time from people whosay CEOs, Oh, you know what Jensen's doing?
Did you read that article?
He does one on 60.
It's him and his 60 reports.
I'm going to do that too.
I'm like, Well, you only have 25 people in yourcompany.
But then we go through it and I'm like, Why doyou want to do it?

(01:03:49):
You go, Well, Jensen does it.
So what?
And I don't want to do one on ones anymore.
And I said, I understand.
But what does your company need?
But also remember, Jensen's been doing this atNvidia for thirty years, and this is what works
for them now.
And so when Amr from NSAID said that, I waslike, Oh, this is beautiful.
This is beautiful.
You're looking at where your company is rightnow.

(01:04:12):
They raised $18,000,000 from Sequoia.
They're a Series A company with 25 employees.
They are on a rocket ship.
What do they need right now?
And I love that thinking.
It's this capital p first principles.
My first principles are Jensen Wang is doing itwhich of course is the second principles if
anything and there's the lowercase firstprinciples which is no one else is doing it but

(01:04:35):
using first principles thinking I'm I'vededucted this framework that works for me.
That is truly first principles thinking.
Yeah.
And the first principle thinking I love aboutwhat Amr is doing is like, we're gonna do a two
week experiment, and then we're gonna come backand see how it works.
Let's assume that a CEO can't afford an Alexisor a Mochure method and wants to implement one

(01:04:56):
step today to be better.
What is one step that they could take today tobecome a better CEO?
Here's three things.
One is making people feel heard.
That's so important.
It's because it just slows you down as a CEO, amanager, and it helps you connect with the
person across from you.

(01:05:17):
Because, again, you're not judging the person.
You're not focusing on judging, defending, orexcusing yourself.
You're literally taking an active listeningrole and you're repeating it back.
And so often when you repeat it back tosomebody and they feel like you've heard them,
that's 80% of the way there.

(01:05:38):
Great.
That's one.
Two, learn how to ask and receive feedback.
And when I say feedback, I don't mean just thatsomeone is giving you feedback, but have the
integrity to say if you accept it or not.
I find CEOs really have a hard time havingdifficult conversations with people.

(01:06:02):
They avoid it and things fester.
So have that conversation.
People want honesty and they will alwaysrespect it if you're being authentic.
So when you're giving feedback or you'rereceiving feedback, tell them if you accept it
or not.
And then put that feedback into actions ifyou've accepted it.
And make it visible to people.

(01:06:22):
Like if they've asked you to do something andyou accept it, follow-up with them.
Let them know, Hey, in our next one on one oran all hands meeting, you guys have said that I
wasn't doing a good job of doing activelistening.
And I've really worked on that.
I hope you've seen that.
If you haven't seen it, please point it out tome.
That's great.

(01:06:43):
That's good feedback.
And then it's this concept of anger and fear.
How do you get out of anger and fear as a CEO?
Anger makes you do something you later regretand you have to go back and change it or
apologize, right?
It's okay to have that emotion of anger BecauseI think it helps you.

(01:07:05):
It's telling you something.
But take a moment to realize what it's sayingto you because it's about you, not the person
across from you.
And then two, fear is so limiting.
I'm not saying the fear that says, I can walkinto a busy intersection and that truck will
not hit me.
I have no fear.
Now that's stupidity, right?

(01:07:26):
You know what's going to happen.
But there are other fears that are limiting.
Like, I can't go have this conversation, thistough conversation, because my CTO will quit.
Here's the fear.
I'm telling you, it'll be the 180 degreedifference.
One is having that difficult conversation withyour CTO is actually going to be liberating for

(01:07:48):
you.
Now, if your CTO leaves or not, you're going tobe okay.
But the story you're telling yourself aroundthat is limiting.
So in conclusion, it's make people feel heard,learn how to ask, and accept or not accept
feedback and put actions to it.

(01:08:09):
And then three, understand the power that angeror fear has over you as a CEO.
In terms of your clients, do you work with justCEOs?
Do you work with fund managers, VCs?
I work with primarily founders.

(01:08:29):
I work with a couple of VCs and a couple of PEfirms as well.
And I find the same issues across the board.
And what would be the best way for people toget in contact with you if they're interested
in potentially being coached?

(01:08:49):
You can go to masharimethod.com, our website,and we have a big click here if you wanna if
you wanna work with us.
You can also reach out to me on LinkedIn andemail me or my colleagues, and you'll find that
on our website.
Alexis, I wanna really thank you for taking thetime to delving deep and even, helping me, even

(01:09:14):
delving deep into my relationship drama and myconversations as well.
Thank you, David.
Really appreciate being on here and sharingeverything and hearing what's going on in your
life as well.
Thank you, Alexis.
Thanks for listening to my conversation.
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(01:09:34):
Thank you for your support.