Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.
Detective see a side of life the average persons never
exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop.
For twenty five of those years, I was catching killers.
That's what I did for a living. I was a
homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,
I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.
(00:23):
The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories
from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw
and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some
of the content and language might be confronting. That's because
no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.
Join me now as I take you into this world. Today,
(00:46):
I had to sit down with former bikei Owen Turnbull.
Owen's lucky to be alive. He's been shot on two
separate occasions and even had his home firebombed, which came
close to killing his family members. It's a price paid
for living the life of a gangster. Owen took us
deep into the world of outlaw motorcycle gangs. He was
a member of the Rebels before patching over to the Nomads,
(01:09):
where he became the sergeant of arms, an enforcer for
the club. But when he was sent to prison, he
came to the realization that this is not the life
he wants to live. Owen's a hard man with no
bullshit approach to life, as you will hear today, he's
now out of the biking world and educating young men
to understand the cost of living this life. Now, this
is a heavy conversation, but it's one I think it's
(01:31):
worthwhile having Ohen turnbull welcome, Do I catch killers? Well,
we can both have a bit of a laugh. For
X cop and X bikey sitting down having a chat. Well,
you could say that, you could say that we're parts
of organization, gangs and different things, but it's sort of
(01:52):
an accepted practice at Bikey's and cops neverthe two shall meet.
It's funny how life plays out, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
It's like, it's pretty funny considering off I left. I
get along with like the higher up cops a bit
better than I did some of the bikis.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Because it's well, how we how we got in contact
with I bumped into a current serving cop, yeah, and
got to talking with him, and he said, oh, you
should speak to this, but he's doing some good work.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
We do the doing the NRL gig together. Yeah, the
juniors sharing my story helping them out of trouble. Well,
don't want your money gambling all that kinds of stuff.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Yeah, well, it's a good message to get across, but
I think we probably should clarify that. Yeah, the cop
a current serving cop you're speaking to. You're not an informant. No,
no informant.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
No, let's put that on record. It's a job I
got with the NRL talking to the juniors, helping them
don't stray along the same path I did go on
from potential NRL first grader to becoming a bikey. My
story kind of helps out because a lot of the
young fellows these days, they've got money in social media.
They can get caught up on all that stuff. You know.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
So well, the world's attract each other, don't.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
They, because the intertwines.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
It comes across. So I would imagine it is an
important message to get across. And that was the initiative
of the Queensland cops.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah. The Queensland one was Gang Exit Gang Exit video.
For me, it was me ben Geppert who was part
of it as well. And there's another bloke who was
with the Titans Gold Coast Titans through his career way
to become a biking on stuff as well.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
So well, I watch the watch your video on it,
and it's pretty heavy stuff and something that really got
a strong message up front in the video where you
talk about going to a funeral of a member that
someone got up and said how much he's going to
miss the brother and.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
He's the person that followed. Yeah, it's about twenty sixteen.
Big there was a big time for the rebels, you
know what I mean. So I knew a lot of
things due to my position and getting told things, and
back in my head, I'm like, fuck, what am I
doing in this place? You're fucking consoling his mother and
you're the one that organized it. I started to realize
(04:11):
it's fucking mostly bullshit, but I still stayed in for
a couple few more years.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
You learn your lessons, yeah, as you grow up. But
it reminds me of mafia. Dudes always talk about you
wacking each other. If you're going to get knocked that's
probably by your best mate. When you at least expect you.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
See that all the time movies, real life, they get
knocked by their best mates because it's business or something
like that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Well, we had Michael Francis, he's a cape from.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
New York in Australia.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Yeah, and I did a tour with him. But he
was talking about how, yeah, if you're going to get knocked,
it's probably by the person that's your best mate, which
is it's a hard life.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
It's a fucked life, isn't it. It's meant to be
like a brotherhood, but you're getting killed by your best
mate or someone close to you.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Just paranoia kicking.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, oh fuck. There'd be heaps of times I'll get
called on the BlackBerry and we used to have them
I needed to come here, I needed to meet here,
or I think I'm in the back of my head,
I'm thinking, have I done something? Am I fucking gonna
get something gonna happen to me? It was. There was
a couple of times where I thought I was gonna
get fucking like shot or knocked or bashed by a
couple of people. I'd rock up to the President's house
(05:22):
at the time and there'll be people I wouldn't even
seen before there. I'm thinking, what's going on here, be
on edge, couldn't get out of their quick enough. A
just shows you like, and they just couldn't be brothers,
couldn't even trust him.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
But to add to the paranoia, paranoia that's that's in
your your own crew, then you've got the could be
knocking on the door of.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Other clubs as well. Like we had a thing where
every common chero, every lander was a common shero.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Yeah you didn't know, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
So they think it's like three there's three big boys here.
They just normal everyday blokes or Bikey's something going to happen,
always on it, especially in camera. Was tiny.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Yeah, it's a small, very small place. Everyone's is business.
Is it more relaxing being out of the gangs.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Oh yeah, it's so much better because down there, obviously
it's such a small place. I can't just hide all
the time.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
And what I high, I say, Hi, goodbye, very polite,
keep it, keep it, keep it short.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
And yeah, they're good with me down there. They know
I'm completely out and doing my own thing and I
don't want anything to do with it, you know what
I mean. But yeah, just keep it nice and polite,
don't hate them. They don't hate me.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Yeah did you? You grew up in Canberra?
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Yeah, born and raise the camera. Me.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Mother was a nurse.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
My dad was a carpenter his whole life. And I
got a younger brother.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Right, okay, and you're a big unit and you're playing NRL.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
I I was hoping. I was hoping to get there.
I stopped and I was playing soccer first, and then
I was like to mommy, I want to play pay
ruby league and your parents are real courtious, then I'm
going to get You're going to speak head over and
stuff like that. Finally was able to play rugby league.
I was under elevens and twelve played for two years
before I got selected for act score Boys, which like
First South Wales, Cleansland, stuff like that. Who kept playing?
(07:05):
I kept up to me under fourteen fifteen sixteens. My
whole time growing up, I was completely dedicated to becoming
an NRL football player. I was. I didn't associate with
anyone and what age? What age was this about? Fourteen
fifteen sixteen? And then I said, I said, I never
touched I won't touch alcohol, don't touch drugs anything. I
(07:26):
didn't touch drugs. Alcohol My first alcohols I was sixteen,
and then from there it was like downhill into like
just a spiral of lost on my cardio, no desire
to play football, just wanted to chase girls.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Did you put it down into the alcohol? It was
just the lifestyle and the bright lights and.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
The lifestyle and the alcohol as well, because you don't
realize how much of affect you I when you look
with your cardio and stuff, when you're doing it every
weekend and pecual you want to hang out with your mates.
You've just turned eighteen as well, you're leave in school,
going out to the clubs after after school it was
cool the next day.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
There's so many stories of blokes that, yeah, all the
potential in the world that could have made it at
the top level, and they made a good living out.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Of it, but the grog or drugs or get focus
the way. You have a big thumbs up to the
boys that can do both of that.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Stuff, you know, But you look back now and you think,
fuck what, I'm sure all the way.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
For what for people who aren't even there anymore? Why
they don't care about me? You never cared about me.
It's just fuck, it's just stuck with my guns and
just kept my head down.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
So okay, you're fifteen sixteen, you're getting you got the
taste of alcohol and the.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Wall played hal mats for the Raiders during that time
was when the first time I had my first sup
of beer, alcohol and drugs and didn't touch anything before that.
And you can tell from like how deteriorated I got
from like my cardio. I couldn't even finish doing like
one training session. It was that fuck. And then they
burned me from that. They said, oh, was on the coach,
(08:55):
you has your waste of fucking talent? Was the turbule?
I fuck, I got a bit of a fucking to
put my head in.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Shame, shame, listen, listen, You're a waste.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
I still remember it stays in my head and kind
of like the fuck it I saw myself out. But
it's it's a bit hard when you're around a lot
of people and it's like, well, I can do this
and that. And then eventually, because I got kicked out
at home, I sent to live with my uncle.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
What was that? You got kicked out at home?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Dad? Me and my dad were always at each other.
A lot of people, a lot of pressure on me
growing up to play football, I think I was just trying
to live through him, like it's just he's always he
always used to be about, oh yeah, my son's this
football is going to do this, And that's a lot
of pressure.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
As I got older that that's interesting, and a lot
of parents are like, that isn't it. You want to
live vicariously through your through your kid, but it puts
out the pressure on you.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Because I just love it, just live and breathe at football,
and then it just become a chore and I just
hated it. Like we're training for Raiders on Monday, Wednesday Fridays.
They were way before.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Cheating.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
If I've lost fucking five kilos in onion was probably
water eight, but you know five kilos from eighty five
to eighty Yeah. I just I'd come off of like
a birthday party or some shit. And we played the
trial against Sharks the next day for getting picked, and
fuck I played horrible rubbish, dropped the ball twice. I
still remember it, and then fucking you see me, Dad
(10:21):
and I had this shit say then they got cut
from there, the waste of talent thing and then my
dad always had each other's head. It chose next and
fuck it you can get the fuck out, sent me
up on a train to Barrow, lived in lived there
for about six to eight months working. I was living
(10:42):
in a garage. Your bedroom was a garage with a
bed of the mattress and a TV. And I was
working five dollars an hour sixteen seventeen years old. I
was like slave labor. I fucking hated it and maybe
it made me resent.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, next career choice didn't really stay in the right direct.
And you start working as a bouncer, didn't you How
old were you then?
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Eighteen eighteen? I've got my old coach got me the job. Really, so, yeah,
I had enough of living in a fucking garage. This
ship moved back. No, I didn't even I just got
on a train one day and came back. So it's
got to make me Dad tell me to fuck off,
you know, at each other. And now obviously I got
to stay home. Wasn't nowhere else coming to go stay
(11:27):
with them? And they got the job. Next thing, you know,
because there was a pop in Tiger on the south
of Camber and rebels would frequent it a lot, and
they'd always come in and I think, oh, you know,
these guys are bad motherfuckers because eighteen, you don't know
anybout it and you're working the door. Yeah, working the
door and inside the club, the bar, and being young,
you don't know any But I don't think these guys
(11:49):
are so bad hectic. And then I was hanging I
met a few of them, hanging around for three months,
and then I numbed up after three months. So I
was about twenty years old.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
What and this is a you know, the cautionary tail
because you're you're out of it now, But what what
was the attraction to it?
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Like it's always the girls, the money, because I was
fucking dead broke. I had no life skills. I'm no
trade skills anything. I mean, best I could probably do
is lift up some furniture and stuff and move. And
so I started getting involved, like just hustling and doing
drugs and stuff. I didn't touch cocaine. The first of
a line of cocaine was with my president at the time. Yeah,
(12:25):
I was still scared to do it. I watched that
lend Bias doc go back in the day, I think
it was, and he had his first line and he
died from itself. Was always too scared to do it.
That's probably, and then I'd eventually just start doing it
and just kind of massive habit. I was broke till
about twenty four and then that's when I started making
bigger money.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
So how and you're working the door and the rebels
are coming in all the bike How was that for you? Intimidating?
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Intimidating at the time.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Intimidating. Imagine you're intimidated because.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
You don't know any better and you don't know who
they are. But then you join and you realize, fucking
most of these guys are just fucking blow asses, you
know what I mean. They've got no balls, hard about him. Nothing.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
But when you're young or you don't know anything about
that life or from that life, you think, Okay, this
every day bloke, he's a bad motherfucker because he's a
bike And then you're joining, he's just like the guy
that's made to go do the shitter stuff, you know
what I mean, Just like he's in the club just
for a fucking so you can fix a bike or
do certain things, you know what I mean, Bring bring
a skill set to the club that can help. So
(13:23):
how did you you said you're asked to be How
did that happen. Did you start going to parties or
hanging out?
Speaker 2 (13:28):
And I was start hanging out with a couple of
the members who just got their colors, like they were young,
about a couple of years older than me. And I'm
hanging out three months, are going to ship clubs, partying,
doing all kinds of driving around, just a shit like that.
And yeah, after three months told us if I wanted
to join, and I was like, yeah, sure, got nothing
(13:49):
else going for me? What am I doing fucking working
two days a week doing nothing?
Speaker 1 (13:54):
And so that that seemed to be better offer. Did
you have have an interest in bikes? Was that to
touch the bike? It never touched a hearty in my life. Okay,
we'll yap skill.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
So actually the first time I got the bike, I
paid borught off them. It's fifteen thousand. There's a piece
of shit. Soft Tail twousand model soft Tail went for
a ride, got mees went for ride the first time,
and I was horrible because you got to lean them
and they're so heavy. I tried, I was trying to
turn the bars, come around around about I'm like, oh,
fucking nearly dropped it. And then I'm going up a hill.
First year second year, I'm like, oh, I've seen them
(14:26):
like don't bet it go down and you know it
slows them down a bit. And I did it, and
I think tailor spin. I dropped the bike. So the
first time on the hardy I was horrible. They it's
not not a good bike to be nah nah. But yeah,
from there I just kept riding around enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
How long were you non for?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
I did twelve months. It's like, I think it's mostly
mandatory everywhere twelve months.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Describe and everyone has a different experience, but it's generally
not overly overly pleasant. Describe your experience.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Being noms like being a slive really and doing the
most stupid better ship, or like why am I doing this?
Are you that fucking lazy that you're calling me at
four in the morning to go and get your hungry jacks?
Or are you fucking I had two sponsors. One of
them is missus was pregnant, and he lived across from
(15:16):
the hospital, like literally a fifty meter walk. I lived
about half an hour away. He caught me, I needed
to fucking I need you to come and take me
to me and my misses to the hospital, just gonna
get a check up for the baby, like I'm fucking
doing that, you know what I mean, Like you fucking
live right there. It's like, are you that fucking lazy?
And he fucking lost it. And I've had some sort
(15:38):
of a reputation, but I was looked after and I
didn't get in trouble for telling a member to fuck
off and like all this kind of shit with oh yeah,
big striking, and they fucking a lot of the older
members and that didn't like me. I'm not going to
be stuck up, but I knew I was better than you,
know what I mean, Like these these guys are fucking
(15:59):
like I joined, and I'm like, holy funk, A lot
of these people are really fucking blow asses.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah and that, yeah, well I wonder because you're fairly outspoken,
there's no.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Bullshit that it might be the same as a cop
where you go in and like fucking better than these people.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yeah yeah, well there's good good cops, bad cops, and
I'm sure the same applies with the bikis. But okay,
so you become a member, what what's that involved? And
I don't want you to go down the path of
revealing club secrets. Will put that out because of that.
That's not what it's about. This is your your personal
personal story.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
But got my colors. There's me. I lived at the
clubhouse with another mate another none lived there. We're both
broke as fuck. We had like we're just doing a
lot of missions things of that, Like we had to
earn our colors basically, and we got our colors. And
they always they try to stick with my chapter. They
(16:54):
try to like scare you when intimidate you, but it's
all a joke when you get your colors, and like
they went in. I just smiling. I was laughing because
I knew I was geting my colors and they're trying
to put on like a facada. It's like you're in trouble, mate,
we know what you've done. Did that? I started laughing,
like it's not a fucking laughing matter. And I was
like what And then yeah, they've got my colors like
(17:17):
this straight after and then you have a big party,
how like you were.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
You're reflecting now and your attitudes change, but that at
the time, was that something that you're gone, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
That was my number one goal in life is come
around that you were. I got I got their r
for far before it even like like a week after
I got my colors down my leg. Yeah, you know
you're to wait five years, But I.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Said, what the tattoo, You're in it forever. Yeah, that's
what I say.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
You see, like all these young fellows now get look
at the tattoo shop and they're getting like whatever club
and then you're like, you're going to get that. You
know eventually you're gonna get that removed, right, No, I
mean forever. So I was saying the same ship.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
But that's that's so that that's the experience of yeh
been through it and looking back because you wouldn't have
thought that at the time, because I think it's interesting
what your attitude was at the time.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Yes, this is my world totally different. So I lived
and breathe it like it's all I wanted. It's all
I wanted to do, and be I was like, yeah,
I want to become president on this chapter. And then
all the politics when you get higher up and stuff,
you're just like it's very clickie, like a lot of childish,
backstabbing shit, and it always revolves around money.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Where you put any group of people together and there's
always going to be.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
A lot of fucking jealousy, especially from older members or
like they've been there for like ten fifteen years and
here you come in. You're like in there for two
years and you're already above.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Them, and what was expected of you being a member,
like put the club above everything else?
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yeah, stuff, You pay the fifty dollars a week dues
for a rubbish club hours every Tuesday, you got the church,
you stay every Friday's manatory, you've got to go. You
can't leave until twelve. And I've got fucking sick of
that stuff because it's you'd sit there and you do
the same thing every week. You'd get on it like
you have a couple of lines and then be like
he'd be repeating they'd be repeating the same stories, and
(19:04):
He's like, fuck, this is boring. And then it got
to a point where a lot of the chapter will
get jealous because I was hanging out with like normal
mates because I was just fucking sick of the staying
there till twelve o'clock or children a bit longer and
just repeat the same shit, same stories. It's like, this
is really fucking boring. It's not fun at all.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
It looks like it's fun, sounds like it sounds like
a group of cops going out on the piss talking
about how good we were in the old days.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
That's the same thing like this. It's like you're a
president or whatever telling us a year when I was
a normous I was under this guying, you know, to
earn the colors, and you know, repeating the same stories
every fucking week. It's like I fucking heard this already,
and it just becomes tiresome where you're just thinking of
excuses not to go.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
It's funny the psychology of it. And you talk about,
you know, you've kicked out at home at sixteen, you
were going down the path of NRL, which would have
been yeah, you got bikes, got cops, you've got NRL teams.
You know, it's all been part of a group. Is
that something you were looking for?
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Yeah, because we have anything, because I've been kicked out
at home or come back, I've had mates. But it's
like we're not doing my life, not doing anything. I
wanted to feel part of something. Really, It's like that's
what I'm saying. When I first joined, the President goes,
I'm going to turn you into a soldier, and I thought, oh,
that was cool. That's cool. Shit, he cares about me.
He's going to buy me food, looking after me, stuff
(20:25):
like that. So it's like, Okay, the person really cares
about me, like don't have a good relationship with me
dad and my mum, Like you know, I can count
on these guys to look after me. But liked talking
shit behind your back all the time out of jealousy
or the other members and shit like that.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Yeah, so when did the early stages? How long were
you in it where you thought this this rocks are
like the lifestyle you're living at the clubhouse, which has
this inherent dangers too, because there's a lot of the
clubhouses that get shot up all time, fucking.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Fire bombed everything. I was living there when when of
them happened when I was living there when I got
rated ones too, But like, yeah, it's just a lot
of jealousy and comes being a little favorite.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
I guess, right, Okay, so you probably a bad terminology,
but the teacher's pet.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Yeah, well I did think mixed beach and stuff, you
know what I mean. It's like, oh fuck, I'd rather
not be driving him around every fucking day all day,
you know what I mean? You do it?
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Then, did you have to fight like there was a
lot of punch ups and.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
With other people and stuff. Yeah, I got to do
this and that's when I was the hang around. The
first thing we did was that was it was one
of the people that have shot at him or something
before this happened before I joined, was getting tattoed at
the shop that they own, and we're told to go.
We've got four or five of us have to go
wait there around the corner to come out around there
for about a couple of hours. Finally walked outside and
(21:47):
it was over within like ten twenty seconds, you know
what I mean? That was like my first thing I
did for the club really right, Yeah?
Speaker 1 (21:54):
And how did you feel with doing that?
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Was it just mad? Yeah? I was on edge of beer.
You get to doing sad much stuff. It just comes natural.
You don't even think about it.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
So you become de sensitive because you come across as
a bloke got a conscience and you've got a brain, and.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Then you're just doing everything. You know, sometimes you don't
like and you don't want to do things, but you
fucking have to as well. You just like to get
a fucking over with, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (22:21):
And what what about the drugs. Did that get older you?
Did you become depending on.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
The cocaine was the biggest thing. But I didn't become
really dependent on that until about four years after I joined.
I was. I broke bumb for a lot of years
because I started hustling making money with like the pingers,
the pills that I got done with, all the cocaine,
bottles of valium. It's making a killing. And then yeah,
(22:49):
we're doing like an ounce a week cocaine and funct
you you were doing that, but I was getting people
to come over. Yeah. I didn't want to do by myself.
I felt like a piece of ship, degenerate you, which
I was, but I was like, fuck you. There's people
skipping work to come over, and and.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
I would imagine when you're living that lifestyle and then
you're on the days that you do sober up and
clear your head, you'd be back down.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
What am I doing life? It's the rebels. And then
we we had that national run of Perth to come
back and we had a big foury out within our chapter.
We had in our colors. We throw them at at
the North Side Clubhouse and left and then within like
a couple of days we'll get offers from like No Mads,
(23:35):
and then we got start talking about patch over to
another club or do this or that. So we talks
like Nomads, Angels and a couple of other clubs.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Explain, explain what patch over means, I know.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Throw, throwing your own colors and enjoying another club basically.
But so we settled on the Nomads, and so we
took our rebel gear. We took it to like the
North Side clubhouse lit on fire. They all come running out,
blah blah blah, stuff was happening and left. Then they
didn't want to bar. And then we went over to
(24:08):
No We chose Nomads, went up there, had dinner, met
all the other boys. We were along kind of clicked.
But I didn't realize we had to pay till after
the three und a k for us to get into
the club or something like that. I was like, we
could have joined another club for free. You know what
I mean, we're paying three on a green.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
A lot of politics in it, oh, sounds of anything,
any kickback or any payback, I should say, leaving the
rebels with rebels.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
We we kicked it off. It was our chapter. It
was on about eight of us. We kicked it off
with all of them, so like northwest East stuff like that.
A lot of things happened over three days, and then
they didn't want to buy anymore, so they all threw
their clothing the rebels. There was no one more rebels there,
and then they tried to come to the Nomads, and
(24:56):
it's like, fucking the reason we left in the first
place was because of what you fucking you know what
you're trying to come to us for. And I was adamant.
I was like that they are if they fucking come
on buck and leave it. I was sergeant at that time,
so I was doing a lot of shit. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
So when you when you're left and joined the nomads,
you've handed your colors in, you've gone with a crew,
you still must have mates in the rebels.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
And the funny thing was, I'd bring up some boys
from city and they've got the ships at me about it. Yeah,
what the fuck, bro, you know we do? I mean,
fucking is what it is. You know. I'm well to
him as you would be loyal to yours.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
But it's a culture, isn't it. The rules that you
don't stand until it happens to you. Or you go
through it till you get fucked over and you're like okay.
So how long were you in the rebels for?
Speaker 2 (25:40):
I think it was about four years, and then the
nomads for two years.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
When did which was a.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Fucking wild time? Yeah? Over overall, more action happened in
six months than ever happened before that.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
When did you get When was the first time you
went to prison?
Speaker 2 (25:57):
October twenty seventeen. I was in there for three months.
I got bail. I was just doing I was hustling
at a lot of drugs. Then, Yeah, hustling a.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Lot and tell us, tell us about your arrests and
the build up, how.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
That first started from my birthday and the rest on
my birthday and locked up. I had a lot of
money owing to me. It was about two hundred and
fifty three three out a K. I told my best mate.
Had we bought a cafe? It was ninety six zerusan sweet?
Because do you hustle on your sell that stuff that
(26:34):
the ideas you go to legit, you don't keep fucking
doing it. But yeah it makes sense. Yeah, so I'm
going to git. We're gonna do this, you know, I mean,
whatever I get locked up on my birthday. I bought
the cafe with okay, bro, and can you collect this
money for me? Because I still owe someone? And yeas, sweet, sweet,
you collected at all. And then like two or three
weeks before I get out, like my missus at the
(26:55):
time and my mates. So he collected like three hundred
k and just disappeared, left his miss is everything. So
I'd got out and I'd had nothing, So I was
stressing us. Was I've got to pay my fucking up
the road as like fuck. I was doing anything I could.
I was organizing four thousand pills to this bloke he
messaged me. I knew him from used to sell to
him before. It was the setup. He goes, hey, I
(27:16):
want to get some pills. So I got out and
the bail was only out for two or three months,
and so I've got the pills. We're in the car together.
In the paperwork I've seen I started laughing, showing everyone
when I got locked up again, and I started laughing
til it's like you fucking serious. It's in the paperwork.
It has me looking in the car with him going
to meet his mate. We see I see his mate.
(27:38):
I turned him and her mate looks like a fucking cop.
Turns out that he was a fucking cop. So I'd
give him this cop fucking four thousand pills.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
That's not a good idea.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Yeah, And it happened numerous times. I was thinking, in
my fucking gut, I knew it was a fucking cop
the whole time. I knew it was a cop. Yeah,
you're living. You learn though, And that thing was out
of desperation, as I was like, fuck, I need to
make money quick, going from having all this money it's
nothing and this.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Is your illegal activities, that's a source of your income.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Yeah, the whole literally, fucking I didn't have a job
entire time I was in the in the bike is.
I had a job from like for a couple of years.
At the start, I was working at the door at
the strip club and I was doing the Saudi Arabian
Ambassador's residents.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Yeah security, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, so I need to
have a job. Blake, I know that went through the
gangs and all that. He was described himself as becoming
a citizen after he left there. Before there and he
said he was an outlaw. I won't mention the club,
but the president was saying that it's about time you
(28:40):
get a job, and he said, well, fuck that, I'm
an outlaw law job.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Is that the the you need a job? Like he's
going to pay dues? Are going to pay for your
by bike or do anything? Really going to go going
on a run? You know how you're going to pay
for hotel stuff like that? You know what I mean?
Actually I was just selling a lot of drugs and
making a lot of money. You need a job and
I fucking didn't have a job.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Tell us just say, people that don't understand the biking world,
give us an overview of a week in a week
without giving yourself up on anything. But what's the week
in the bike? Is you got your club meeting.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
On a night as with a job or without a job,
without a job, what it'd be Monday? I'd wake up
at about eleven am, probably have a line of rack
or something with the mother, my housemate, with other boys.
We'd chill out, we'd try and get girls. We scroll
on Instagram, put up I was young with twenty twenty
one years old? You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Young?
Speaker 2 (29:33):
It's just putting up photos driving around trying to sell drugs,
flat stick and then Tuesday would come, you do the
same thing. It's this your Groundhog Day every single day.
And there'd be days where you wouldn't sleep for like
three nights. You'd be just doing big vendors, and then
you'd get in trouble.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Trouble through the from the game. Yeah, for doing what
you meant to be doing.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
There wass another one where we went about Facebook. At
the time, this is before like social medias were a
real thing with bikes. Yeah, we're allowed. We're allowed of Facebook.
So a lot of would have secret ones because you're
fucking young. You want to talk to girls and you
want to do things. I've got found out. I've got
to find fifteen hundred dollars for having Facebook, and then
like two weeks later, through through the through the have
(30:18):
a hearing, you get fifteen hundred dollars, have anyone representing yourself.
You don't even get represented. It's like, man, you know
the rules, fifte hundred bucks. Fuck, I don't know. Poor
as fun. There isn't nothing as it is, so you
just give them money. And two weeks later they unbanned
that you were allowed to have Facebook. So it's like
what a fucking joe? Okay, they're going to get the
(30:38):
money backs, Like, no.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Mat didn't make it retrospective.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Yeah the fuck on now we're going to use it
to recruit. It's like, fuck, this kind of happened like
two weeks ago.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Yeah, you know that's the life you you're a young fellow.
I've had spoken to other bikies that were working life
and they're saying that work of life is there. They're
different ways of being in the clubs, like as in
they had jobs and the bike bike.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
If you had a job, you're probably a bit better off.
You wouldn't have to do as much. That's prob. I
had to drive him around all day every day. I'd
got to get it, come to mine at ten, pick
him up, drive him around's been talking, going around, just
doing a lot of talking. Sergeant natural state sergeant. Oh.
Sometimes once a month, every Tuesday, I'd have to drive
him up at Sydney for the fucking big meeting. Once
(31:25):
a month. It's a lot of driving and I'd rather
At the point I was like, I wish I was
going to have to come up with a lie and
say I have a job so I wouldn't have to
go and.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
See the life you're describing them. We've all been through
stage uber driving, but we've all been through stages in
life that you don't quite like what you're doing and
you're sort of put up with it. You're taking a
high risk being in the bike is you're not enjoying
it by the sounds of it. There's the highlights, like
you said, the women and the drugs at the start
(31:53):
were a highlight, but that can become a bit repetitive.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Yeah, that's the thing, Like I want to fucking we've
got made Sergeant arms. There was a lot more responsibility
as well, and you couldn't really say no to doing
anything because I had to do it because it was
my position. I didn't There's a lot of things I
didn't want to do what I had to do it.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
I want to talk a little bit more about the
role of sergeant of arms because it seems like the
poison Chaloue and the amount of people.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
A position with a lot of power. I cann's basically
just stand forcing an action. You can do whatever you want.
You got more power than a VP. Basically you can.
I don't know if it's with every club, but the
clubs I was in, you could sergeant Arms you could.
I can force violence on any member at any point
if you wanted to, you know what I mean, for
any reason. So and I hated doing that ship. What's
(32:40):
especially like the young fellows because I was coming up
as a normal I fucking hated it. So I was like,
I'm gonna put them through that ship. I'd take them
out to party with me and they'd get in trouble.
You know, I'll get in trouble too, you know what
I mean. But yeah, I didn't want to pull other ship.
And this is fucked up, and you're thinking, fuck me,
why do you put me in this particament position. I
now got to pump out in front of everyone.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
So I make the observation of living the outlaw lifestyle.
There's a lot of rules and regulations, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Yeah, for suppose outlaw live your life how you want.
There's a lot of rules, and they're going to go
to the Constitution and ship like that. You can't do this,
you can't sell this, that's a lie they're doing that.
You can't sell this certain drug, you can't do this,
and they're all doing it anyway.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
Could have anyone first of all, did anyone try and
pull you away from the lifestyle. Did anyone that you
respected sort of tap beyond?
Speaker 2 (33:30):
I think all the ship that with the cops were
fucking around, and you pushed me further into it. I
understand they got a job to do, just saying ship
as well or fucking just destroying ship. It's like, why
are you doing, cosucker? Just make me when I you
coming in the clubhouse and ripping it apart, or even
like your are in bedroom like my parents' house and
they just tear it apart.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
It's like, how how were you were you back on
speaking terms with your old before I got locked up?
I was you went in as a gang member?
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Yep?
Speaker 1 (34:00):
What what's that like in prison?
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Well, they're segregated. It's like you got like different club yards.
So you got like comos, rebels, phinx, no, mad's like
different yards. They're all separated. You have no contact at all,
and if there is, that's a mistake on the screws part,
which happened a lot ironically, if you ended up in
the same yard, not in the same holding, like you say,
you're going up for meds or you're on for a
(34:23):
VL sometimes that you accidentally get put in the same
holding cell and.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
So what's the mentality then if you're you got to
do it because you're on camera as well.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
And it's like because there in there, it's like their
own little community, you know what I mean. Like it's
the screws and camera, the screws and the inmates talk,
you know what I mean, and you hear it all
the time. Fucking oh yeah, this kind of bitched out
to him. So like the first time I locked up
on my birthday, when I first went in, I got
put in the cell where you before you get transported
(34:54):
to the prison. I got put in. Is one of
my best mates back in the day. Will rebels together
over the comments. It's good guy, awesome, but we just
we were put the same thing and it's like, we
fucking have to do this, you know what I mean.
So you got one cunt block on the camera when
him going out of it. Oh, I sit here and
I understand, God, dummy, you understand it. Oh no, mad,
(35:17):
he's a comment.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
You know, I understand understand violence. But the last time
I thought someone I didn't want to fight was in
the school yard when the kids are forming round.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Game to do it a fight, fight, fight, But it
doesn't look good because because like camera's a small place
and people talk, you know what I mean, so they
find out everything, Like my mom mum found out like
a day later what happened. I was like, what are
we talking about? You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (35:40):
But like, do you like I'm saying, yeah, as you
get older, you might have to have a fight. You
understand that. But he's a bloke that you haven't got
a real gripe with. And as business though, it's like
just club ship. It looks like schoolboys stuff in that.
I like you, but I'm going to have to punch
on because otherwise we're gonna And the only.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Reason we fought was because he started to comos and
which I'll think it back then, if like I was
saying before, if I had a president like Alan Meahan
or whatever, I'd still be there because he's like the
ideal boss. He's a fucking gentleman, a different way of caring.
He gives a fuck about his boys.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
How did you end up sergeant arms? And what's the
quality of the sergeant arms they look for? You're going
to have to be able to look after yourself because
violence I didn't.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
I wasn't made sergeant arms because of fighting or anything.
She was like a lot of other things. But yeah,
I was always if I was asking this something, I
would do it within reason. Like there'd be one time
where we had an arrival club beefing with heavy at
the time eating or eating in our area, which is
(36:48):
so fucking they're eating in the area. We've got to
do something about it. And looking back as so fucking sad.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
He's embarrassing, it seems. But you look back now with
the distance from it at the time.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
If I think it's a imagine what other people at
the time think about that ship.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
So someone someone's come into your patch. Basically, yeah, sons
in our area. So we got to do something about it.
So these I was sober, a couple of arts were sober,
and the rest they were on a bender at the time.
They found us out. They found out they were having
a feed where we frequent and I was like, I
want you to go there, and I wanted to fucking
shoot it up, like spray it. I'm thinking, are you
(37:23):
fucking serious, mate?
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Like it was me. I was sergeant. We had another
young fella brought in and then a driver. I think
you want me to go and shoot up a public
fucking area at seven pm at night, like prime dinner
time on a Friday night. It's like, you fucking dumb,
Like and I it's like, what if I hit someone
or even if I don't, I get like them. I'm
(37:47):
doing to do like ten to fifteen years easily. Yeah, yeah,
and throw throw my way, throw away my life for
what just because you've got to fucking sow ego. You
can't do it yourself, you're fuck wed like within reason,
I do it, but like that's just dumb. What's the
point but you So we did it, or we drove
past and outside the boys, I'm not going to because
it's them as well. They're young. It's like we're going
(38:07):
to do a lot of time for this too. If
it's like we're going to go, we're going to go.
We're going to tell him that they're not there anymore.
Out there still. So we drove past seeing him, I said, okay,
we're going to wait around a while, we're going to
do anything. We're going to when I go back and say, oh,
he's not there, not there anymore, and then leave it
at that. And that's just left at that. Yeah, I
think I was do you do you watch and we're out.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
I'm not asking if you got any inside knowledge or whatever,
but my observation of some ship that goes down and
people often say what's going on with this gang war
or this or that? Sometimes it's as stupid are's things
like that thing And it can be one person just
talking tough and never undus falls.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
As I'm saying something in social media you said all
the time like fuck you, fuck this club or fus
and it becomes something out of nothing.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Because I know the media often asking what's what's fueling
this this violence, and that something's something stupid.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
It's tiny, miniscule. It's either money or a tiny little
beef over a girl or something someone said on the
grapevine and spun it and created drama. Yeah, I don't
have anything serious.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
Really, What were your your parents thinking when you're in this,
because you know, regardless of how old the whole old
you are and how long you've been out of home.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
My mum hated it, and I didn't realize at the
time all the damage and stuff I was doing to
her job. Like I went in the house first, got
has got shut up the first time a five. I
tried to keep it a secret but because my mum's
job is like, they've got intel and stuff as well,
they knew what the fuck's going on, and go was
it meant for me?
Speaker 1 (39:42):
I'm just trying to get a sense of it too
when she's You know, when you're in prison, if they
come to visit you, they saying what are you going
to do when you get out? Because you're in how
long did you get?
Speaker 2 (39:53):
For bears? But when I got out it hit the
media too. Yeah, I looked at I was w a
today Brisbane Times especially righted at your house. Yeah, the
fucking Then the cops put the thing and I was
seen running to the toilet trying to flush drugs, and
I mentionedly he tripped over and during the thing, I
(40:14):
was like you, I try to run you down in there.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
And so at the time, I'm trying to get the
sense of you. At the time, did you think, okay,
well this is just the price I pay it, this
is this is cool? Did you get the ships with
yourself and go like, well I didn't.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
I didn't really think about it much until I started
like affecting my mum's job, And then it took me
going to prison to realize all the ship I was
putting them through, you know what I mean. Like when
I was locked up, there was a point where fucking
in prison, I couldn't talk to me mum, just so
she could keep her job. We had my lawyer divvy
up a thing where we were I'd been like no
(40:50):
contact for like two years, and then we couldn't talk
for a bit till I got out.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
After I got out, and that that's purely because the
job that she had.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Yeah, I'm not going to make it's not you all
fault that I was.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
A piece of shit in conflict. Were you? Were you
in a relationship at the time, yes, how was that.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
Together? And then we broke up after I got out
because before I went back again. It's in there. You
see a lot of the boys doing head miles over
women in jail, Like I swear, amplifies, amplifies your feelings
and stuff like that, because you think, oh, I'm going
to get out, baby, we're going to get married, We're
going to do all this, and they get out and
doesn't happen. They see boys in there, Like I was
(41:28):
in the yard with one of the boys and he
would spend one hundred and fifty bucks a week on
the phone just to talk to his missus, Like you
we'd have the visit. It sees miss as the first
thing you did. We'd come back and bring his missus again.
Like guys go crazy in there. Yeah, in a relationship.
And I was like, I'm not doing any of that.
That make me time even harder.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Well, I would imagine it would be harder. And I
would also imagine when you're inside and you're doing a
long stint, you'd be going, well, is she going to
move on from me? Yeah? You don't know what was
going on. You don't know, so it's kind of selfish
to fucking I can keep them. Yeah, So how many stints?
Stints did you do in prison to break it down?
Speaker 2 (42:03):
It was like locked up on my birthday was like October.
Then all that stuff happened with the undercover cop and
the wire and they got locked up again. It was
like two would be years.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Yeah, what what was the second one?
Speaker 2 (42:17):
More the sale of the pills, cocaine and valium and
proceeds of crime. I got more time for the value
than I did the cocaine, which is funny.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
How did that break it?
Speaker 2 (42:28):
I don't know. I think fifty bottles of valium's a
bit more than an ouncer case.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Yeah okay, yeah yeah. And so you didn't learn your
lesson the first time.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
The second time, I'm thinking I had a lot of time.
It was because my lay goes, you need a the
early guilty player. He goes, I go, how we look,
and he goes, you fucked like you've literally on video
and photos giving an undercover cop drugs and receipt. You
can't beat it. Let'st we can do like a psychroport
report early guilty please. So I got twenty five percent off,
(43:02):
and so I was lucky I got the full twenty
five because I was looking at like he goes, You're
looking like nine years like six on the bottom, nine
years on the top. Was like fuck, I said, if
I don't want to be in here after I'm thirty.
If I said, if I if I'm in here after
I'm thirty, I'm gonna fuck if I get out at
thirty thirty one. I think I'm gonna kill myself, you know,
because I want to waste the life. And then I
went into the rehab yard, which is like the therapeutic community,
(43:24):
which kind of like talking to someone helped me a lot,
as well, I figured out what I want to do
in my life, and like I talking like the people
like you were a good Christian Catholic boy and all
the kind of stuff. I was like, you don't have
to be from the mud to get dirty, you know
what I mean. It's more so I'm probably a bit
more inclined to be smarter with that kinds of stuff,
like making money and stuff. But then I got out,
(43:46):
and then there's no incentive for any for them to
help you and stuff Like I went out, I'm going
to change my whole life. I'm going to do everything
I want to do and be like prop. I wanted
to be like a youth worker, so I did. I
went to like CIT which is like TAFE. So I
did CIRT three community services and then search for in
youth work, did the whole thing, all the assignments passed them.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
This is when you're inside.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
No, this is like within a couple months a me
get now right. But then when I went to the workplacement,
I couldn't even fucking finish it because I couldn't get
a lot of person's card. It's like fuck, And then
they are these people they want you to change and
change turn your life around and do anything. But then
they don't help you or given an incentive or not
even not an incentive, but they just like they make
(44:28):
it hard for you to change. And then I'm lucky
for me. I've got a good support network and good
mates and family, but I didn't turn back and go
back to all that doing that bullshit.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
Well, if you break it down, you had your first stint.
You didn't learn from that because you've come out and
done the same for you. But I would imagine that
adds to your paranoid as well, because the cops know,
well you've convicted drug dealer. Yeah, it's not hard to
look around. What are you up to? What are you
up to now? How long were you out before you
got locked up the second time?
Speaker 2 (44:56):
Two months? Right? Okay, so you didn't ever in that space,
they fucking yes, slam me. So you Yeah, well you've
come it's all out of just fucking I need money stressing. Yeah,
you've come out with the intent that you're going to
continue on them. But the second time, you same time, like, yeah,
I got a fucking what am I doing my life?
Like my mum like still having drums with her job
(45:18):
stuff like that, and I mean, my grandma was sick
and fucking I'm thinking of the mirror, like what the
fuck am I doing? I don't belong here. It's like
I'm trying to be a piece of ship. But it's
like a lot of the boys in there in jail.
I don't do eyes, so I don't hang around that
stuff or you know. I mean, it's like that's not me.
I don't call my sell my home like a lot
of people do, like yeah, I'm going to go back
to my home or this that it's not funny. Fucking
(45:41):
grew up a fucking nerd, you know what I mean,
playing video games and watching cartoons and ship.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
It's like, well, look we might we might take a break.
What I want to cover off on in part two.
I want to break down the shootings at home and
the fire bombing in a little bit more detail, because
I think what's going on in the streets Sydney at
the moment, and there's these drive by shootings and everything
else going on, and I want you to give like
(46:06):
a personal camp.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
There's another big wake up, Paul, like they did the
trajectory of the nine millimeters. Yeah forty five sorry and
mean mum wasn't in bed at the time. She'd have
been in bed at that time because she's where she
slapped with. She would have been right through her. Yeah,
I'm thinking the.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
Fuck, Well, that's the type of thing.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
That's when I started to think about leaving.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
That's the type of thing I want people people to hear,
because people look at it and think it will happen
to other people.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
But I thought it would happen to me. No, you
get get caught up in it, and then no one's
going to fucking come and shoot up my house.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Yeah, I know. But it's all that dumb bravardo that
you have as a young blake and how you have
got associated with doing the gang exit video and what
the purpose behind that is and what you hope to achieve.
We've putting this message out to young fellows life. I've
got to say, the life you've described, now, yeah, there
might have been some highs, but there's more lowers and highs.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
Isn't it guaranteed? Fuckings here? Looking back? Yeah, I think
I'm so what. I'm surprised I'm not still in prison, honestly. Yeah,
it should I had to do or got told to do.
I drinks myself.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
But well, I suppose that's why people are going to
listen to you, because you've been through being through the pathway.
So anyway, let's discuss that when we get back Part two.