August 4, 2025 • 63 mins
Kerrin Hofstrand was the Queen of Ketamine. In the ‘90s, she was a drug dealer who first imported ketamine into Australia from the US hidden in contact lens bottles. Kerrin was running a lucrative empire - until the day of her bust, when her whole life crashed down around her.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The public has had a long held fascination with detectives
detective sy aside of life. The average person has never
exposed her I spent thirty four years as a cop.
For twenty five of those years I was catching killers.
That's what I did for a living. I was a
homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,
I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.
(00:23):
The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories
from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw
and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some
of the content and language might be confronting. That's because
no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.
Join me now as I take you into this world.
(00:45):
In part two of my chat with Korein Hofstrand, we
learn about BDSM clubs, which has been a real eyepner.
We talk about managing brothels and the time in prison.
We also get her thoughts on drugs and the sex
indust and a whole lot more that we talked about. Now,
get ready for an insight into a world most people
(01:06):
don't get to experience. Corinn Yes, no, I don't worry.
This is not the police interview. You don't have to
deny that allegation. I'm making no allegations.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I deny nothing anyway. I admit everything.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
So you would have been a great one to interviewed
from a cops point of view.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I had the best time with the two cops, the
two detectives. They were both Look, as I said to
you before, I have nothing bad to say about the
guys who busted me, the minions, the minions that came
in there may had a problem with you, the ones
who actually sat me down at Major Crime and talked
to me and threatened me and did everything in a
(01:50):
nice way. And then when I was in that hell
whole called SPC, they came down. I don't know what
was happening upstairs. I have no clue who detected who whatever,
but one of them, the other guy, came down and
he said, Korean, why the fuck didn't you tell me
who your father was? I said, what are you going
to let me out now? And I was just like,
(02:12):
you know, they were really all the way through.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Ye. Look, I like it when I hear stories like that,
because cops are doing their job as everyone appreciates, and
if they're doing it but they're fair. They can they
can be hard, but fair.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
With me.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Okay, well, clearly you're not a fan of the holding
cells at this SPC. But we'll move on. Those that
were listening to Part one would have heard about your
journey on the way to New York and you got distracted.
In Hawaii, you studied to become a nurse, you worked
in an ICU unit. You also worked as a waitress
(02:47):
and a stripper, and you started dealing drugs on a
cruise that you recommend to anyone.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Ye seven days America, do it now?
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Okay, I'm not sure if they've still got the drug
dealing on that.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I don't think they do.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
I think it's pretty claim warning.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
You don't go there for the drive, but the actual
trip the cruise. So when you came back to Australia,
was that when you realized that drugs got hold of it.
Chris and Chris and your breaken up with Mark and
you started seeing Chris. You met him on the cruise.
I think it's important to say here that Chris has
(03:23):
never been accused of any wrongdoing. He sent you back
and said you just need to sort yourself out.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
So that was nineteen ninety.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Okay, and you've come back here, but you didn't quite
sort yourself out.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
No. I came back here and I lived with my
grandmother yep. And so this is early nineteen ninety, like
late eighty nine, ninety Christmas basically, and I was working
cocktail waitressing, waitressing. I was working in some really good
restaurants actually, like Cables of the Regent. I was working
(03:57):
at the Clock Hotel in the I had used to
have this great steak house downstairs, and a couple of
other restaurants up in the Cross that were really good.
And through doing that, I started or because I was
here by myself, like Chris was still back there and
I was here by myself, and I kind of didn't
(04:19):
really have a I had girlfriends that I knew, but
they kind of weren't in the same scene as me.
I was not in any drug scene of any description,
but I was because of Chris, in the gay scene.
And I then found out about Oxford Street. And then
I met who was still one of my friends today,
who was the manager of the Albrey. And I met him,
(04:42):
and through him, I met other guys and just became
a bit of a party scene. Marty grow and Slee's
Ball became a thing. And that's when I met Ed,
and Ed came over from the United States. This was
the start of it. So I was just a normal
person doing normal ecstasy like everybody else on Oxford Street.
(05:03):
I wasn't trying to find coke because I knew the
coke here was crap. So coke was out of my life,
gone goodbye. So that this guy, So I was just
like buying ecstasy like everybody else was like this. This
was the drug of choice. You didn't have to drink
with it.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
That met the needs of the party scene.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
And it was a clean party scene. It was fun.
Everybody was in a good It was called the I
Love You Tree drug for a reason, you know. And anyway,
so I met this guy named Ed and he'd come
over from the United States with I don't know how many,
and I was a connection to a lot of friends
on Oxford Street who were working because it was Marti
(05:43):
Gras and who were working couldn't get off work, and
so I'd buy ten for him, ten for him whatever,
you know, whatever they needed. And Ed got to know
me through that, and so anyway it went on. I
was just you know, we went to Mardi Gras, and
then I.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Was again that sort of you just start off, you're
enjoying the scene, you're using, and then it became available
to you started selling it. All of a sudden, you
find yourself as a drug dealer.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah because of Ed. Yeah, well I'm blaming it because
he's the one that sent them over to me.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
So he was from the United States, and we were
sitting out the front of what used to be a
cafe on the corner of Crown and Oxford Street, and
it was now it's a little seven to eleven, and
we were sitting on the steps out of it, high
as a kite on ecstasy. And he said to me, Karin,
if I sent you over three hundred ecstasy a week,
(06:40):
would you send me the money back. I was like, yeah,
sureuse I will a kite on your ekis of course
I'm going to do that for you. Yep, no problem,
thinking it's just ecstasy post Mardi Gras talk. This was
a Sunday morning after you right, So I went home
(07:01):
on the Tuesday, or whenever I got home, and I
said to Chris, you know, Ed said to me, he's
going to send over you know whatever, yeah, yeah, la
la la, you know, a talk talk talk. So about
a week later I get a phone call from the
United States from Ed and he goes, okay, so I
need you to go to Bondo Junction post Office or
Bondo Post Office post A Restonte under this name and
(07:24):
this name being whatever it was, and you're going to
take this letter saying you are who you are, and
you have the the authority to pick this up. And
there's going to be six macadamia nut canisters, right, okay,
all right, yeah whatever post a post a Restonte is
(07:45):
and they still have it to this day. I didn't
think they still had it, but they do. And it
is where people who don't live here. So say, for instance,
you're in America and you want to send something here
to yourself, right, and you've got no address here, your
(08:10):
holidaying over there, but your flat you don't have a
flat ear and so you need to get this delivered somewhere.
So it's delivered to post Averstonte kind of like those
postbox I suppose now I don't know, but in the
day it used to be you could send something to
post A Restonte. So what Ed used to do was
(08:31):
he would body up a name, So say Julie Smith
and he'd go use the name Julie Smith. So I
would go to whatever post office, and I went to
every post office in the eastern suburbs and I would
go and say right out, I Julie Smith, give Kareingo
Hofstrand the okay or whatever to pick up my package
(08:55):
and then sign it.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
And that was and in those days you could do
that because you.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Didn't have a photo ID. You just had ID and
it didn't even happen.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
It was a simpler time, a simpler time.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Yes, And so I go and pick it up, bring
it home. We were living on Stanley Street and I'm
opening them and you know when you open cans, they go,
So I'm opening them and I'm going, yeah, whatever. And
we get to like the third or fourth one and
we go and tip it out and it's only like
this full of Macademian nuts and the rest is ecstasy.
He has done the perfect job of ceiling that back
(09:34):
and there was three hundred ecstasy in there. And so
that's how.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
It's And how often would this take place.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
It took place about once every two weeks. And he
would send it in so many different things, like it'd
be a chocolate box.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Okay, and everything was mixing, was mixing it.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Up all the time, and every time he did it,
and like, okay, so for instance, say this was not true,
but say it was one of those fantails things that
you get the favorites. But the ceilant on the plastic
was like it had never been opened. He was a
brilliant person at doing these repackaging. I have no clue
(10:15):
how he did it. And then every couple of weeks
after that, I'd send him back. I'd go to different banks,
and I'd send him back when I got to that
point nine dollars because keeping it under the ten thousand slightly.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Flagger exactly right, Okay, did you appreciate that's this and
you started to roll in the money? I would imagine
when this. Did you appreciate how deep you were getting
into what you were getting? Did you even think about
the consequences? Did you like the drugs that you're dealing?
Did you worry about the harm? Was it okay?
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Because and as I said in my statement to the
judge when I was sentenced, I was dealing ecstasy, a
dance party drug, and LSD right because his brother had
bought over all these LSD which were terrible, which ended
up sitting in my drawer, which they ended up finding anyway,
they found it. Whatever, two people over the age of
(11:13):
twenty one or at least over the age of eighteen,
who were in a scene being the gay scene of
Oxford Street. I was not standing at a kindergarten gate
selling heroin.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
And that's how I.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Felt about it. I didn't feel I had felt absolutely
no remorse about selling ecstasy because it wasn't a bad
drug in those days, not now, not talking about now,
not condoning that now, But in those days, you couldn't
get anything more pure as a drug, as a party
drug that you only had to do a half of
(11:48):
to do eight hours of fun with no alcohol, with
a chopper chop in your mouth and a lemonade and
go to Marty Grreslea's ball or any of the dance
parties that were on every Friday and Saturday night.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
You didn't see there's any any harm? No, right, No,
Did you understand that how the law would come down
on you. Did you understand that you're now in the
international drug deal?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Yes? But I was never charged with international Yeah, yeah,
but that was the good thing.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Did that did it weigh on your mind.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
If you're a drug dealer and you don't have that
in the back of your head at every minute of
every day, you're an idiot. Don't care how far up
the chain you are. And I was just a dance
party drug dealer who had the Oxford Street bartenders working
for me. Every bartender on Oxford Street was working for me.
(12:39):
I dropped ten a day into each bartender, one bartender
or shift, and they would sell ten, they'd get one free.
I'd go back down during the night pick up because
the tenant go like that.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Yes, how did you get into that? You said? It
was sent.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Because ED got me into it. Ed because it was
apparently something that was happening in the States. Yep, right,
and so this is like not.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
On do you drug deal or say to each other, Hey,
this is good shit.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Well yes, basically basically he said to me, I think,
but from memory, it was a phone call. He said
to me, there's this new stuff going around and it
is actually just horse tranquilizer, but it's taken in conjunction
with an ecstasy because it puts you in a k hole,
(13:28):
and the k hole you really do kind of lose
lose everything. So everybody at dance parties would have like
a scarf or something, not a scarf, but a tie
of some description of four pieces of four square and
they'd have it in their mouths like that. So you
all went down the K hole together because you literally
felt like you were going down the K hole. And
(13:48):
then you've got the ecstasy on top of it. But anyway,
you only ever did a little bump. It wasn't like
a line. It was just a little bump and you
just went I used to call it the snap, crackle
and pop drug because you just felt like whee, you know.
And he sent it over to me and he said, okay,
so this is the chemical formula. You put this much
(14:08):
in to make this much whatever. He sent me over
the bouch and lawn borels and I cooked it up
and I told everybody because a gram was two hundred
dollars now ninety ninety one. Two hundred dollars was a
lot of money. Like ecstasies were only fifty bucks, so
this was this was an investment, you know. I think
coke was about the same, but this was a new
(14:29):
drug and so we could charge that much. And I
used to say to everybody who came in to try
it into my house at twenty five West Street in Bandington.
I used to say, just do a bump like this. No,
don't listen to Quinn. Don't listen to quin. Let's just
do a line like we do coke because I'm so
experienced at what I do. And then they'd be stuck
(14:50):
in my house for two or three hours at a
time because they were down that k hole. That was
sweet and you couldn't go anywhere, you know.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Break the night, damn them. Okay. And you think that
was the that was when it was first came in
to Australia.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yeah, it was the first because I wasn't busted for it.
They didn't know about it.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
I didn't know about it. And Michael, my lawyer, I
came down and said, you're the first person I know
that hasn't even been hasn't even gone to court yet,
and has had two laws changed because the MDMA thirteen
Dust twelve law changed. I mean, I'm pulling those numbers, transitor.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
I was, Yeah, okay, I always looked at it. You
put it, You put a lot of trust in people
that you're working with, as in you dealing with the
drugs and all that, because in my experience with police,
you catch one person that's shitting themselves and they go,
I'll tell you who the dealer is, and that that's
pretty easy investigation.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
The follow up once.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
But how I got caught was I was put in
by In those days, they had a thing called dubin
a dealer.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
I worked on that in early stage as in my
police career. Maybe maybe, but this is right at last.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
So that's how I got caught, and I got I
knew that from one of these two detectives that were
the good detectives.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Just to let me, let me explain what Dobbin the
Dealer was it was, and I disc well, it's still
still runs in some form today.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
But then it was advertised on TV.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
But yeah, they did a real promotion. And that's where
you just got dragged in from everywhere and we're literally
bank of telephones. It was like a telephone exactly. It
was literally like that, and people are just phane up
and say, this person's been selling drugs at this address
blah blah blah, and we gal all the information and
that's how you go.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
It was another dealer who did it.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Well, I'm glad I didn't waste my time going there
that day. I wasn't sure if there was any arrests
that came from that, but well that's another risk that
you take.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
So the other drug dealer who I know, and I
always say, revenge is a better dish serve cold, but
it's very cold right now because I I'll haven't done it,
but I know who it was because he went and
mouthed off after and I had more friends on Oxford
Street than he did, and so they all told me
that he'd mouthed off up after it, right, And so
(17:17):
that Dobin Adler was the only thing that brought me down.
It wasn't any of the guys.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Then.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
What happened was they apparently so they always ran that
in the May. For some reason, I had a certain
weekend they did it, so they had a month of
surveillance because I wasn't busted till June eighth. And apparently
I lived on West Street, which a very small street
in Paddington, and so there's I lived in a terrace house.
(17:42):
There's terrace houses across the road, terrace houses everywhere. And
apparently they'd got the okay from the terrace house across
the road to do surveillance to my bedroom, which was
the top bedroom, which I had no qualms about sitting
there counting my extasy because there was nobody around.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Sorry, I'm just sitting in there game again with the binoculars.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
And I had draw as I said, I had draws
of LSD because the LSD was crap and I didn't
sell it. It was just there. They came across it
and I was like, oh my god. I didn't even
realize I was there anymore. And then so they came in.
So they had this month long surveillance. Apparently they came
in at seven o'clock in the morning. When I say
(18:30):
seven o'clock could have been seven thirty. I was up
in the top bathroom. I lived with three guys, Chris
and two other gay guys who were a couple, and
I thought it was one of them wanting to use
the bathroom. And I was in my pink flamingo pajamas
and I said just and they knocked at the door
and they said get out now, and I said, just
hold on a minute, guys, and they said it's the police.
(18:52):
And I was like, okay, I got to clean the
teeth anyway, so they're saying, now, so I just put
some toothpaste on my thing. And then they held the
warrand up in front of me, the search warrant, and
for some reason, although somebody corrected me on TikTok, for
some reason they they I thought it said a year,
that they had a warrant for a year, but somebody
(19:15):
said no, it had to be a day or forty
eight hours or something whatever it was. Anyway, the date
was wrong. So it was the seventh of June. It
was dated, and this was the eighth of June. So
I'm thinking, no, it's dated. I said to him, it's
stated wrong, it's the seventh of June. Yeah, I'm thinking yes.
But anyway, then he explained it to me and I
(19:38):
was like, okay, well whatever. So then we all sat around.
There was people there from the night before. I was
in bed, but there was people from there from the
night before. So I'm walking around the house with them, right,
and we will go out. So we've gone from the
front to the back of the house, and in the
back of the house, in the oven there was special K.
(20:02):
So then not special K as in the the not
the corn flakes so they are opened they'd seen. I
don't know what they saw, but they opened up the
oven obviously because they're opening up everything, and they're like,
what's this. And I had been cooking it the night
before and turned it off and left it there because
it had to cool down anyway. And so I because
that's the kind of trust I had with everybody, like
(20:24):
I didn't. It was nothing to me that there's like
ten thousand dollars worth of special K sitting in.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
The oven and the special K kem.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Ketm and so they said to me, what's that and
I said it's special K and they said, what like
the corn flakes? I said, no, like the ketamine that
you give horses. It's a dance party drug. And they
went all right, okay. So I was the first person
in Australia to be busted with ketamine. And so they
changed the law to make ketamine illegal. So the kenemine
(20:54):
that I had, I couldn't be busted for right, And
so in those days, it's funny when I go in
those days. In those days, we didn't have mobile phones
and we had answering machines, and so the answering machine,
my answering machine was always on volume on. I suppose
(21:16):
thinking back, I think you could have it on volume off.
I can't remember, but I think you could. But anyway,
so while they were there, because it was a queen's
birthday weekend and everybody was coming to get their drugs
or alternatively wanted to order them, there came through, like
in the time, like twenty calls and it was like Korean,
(21:37):
are you there, Korean? I need to pick it up Korean.
Then we were all just laughing really because it was
just ridiculous. So what they did, apparently again I don't know,
was they went back and traced the calls to whatever
phone number it was.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
That's probably what they did.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
So anyway, and Ed was hand I was not handcuffed.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
At all, Pink Flamingo, but they let me change.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
It was about two o'clock in the afternoon. Ed was
still handcuffed to the bottom of the stairs. It was
to terrace, you know, and he had had an accident
because he was so scared. And I was actually as
cool as a cucumber. When they took us down to
Major Case across from SPC on that little road that
(22:26):
goes down to Central. I'm sure you know it well,
when they took me in there, they'd gone through my
house like literally, and I was at one desk and
Chris was at another desk, and all of a sudden,
I see this thing come down in front of my
face and it is a storage locker receipt. And whoever
(22:50):
was standing behind me said what's this? And I said
it's a storage locker receipt and I said, I said, yeah, right,
and he said and it's dated, say, the twenty third
of June. I said yeah, but I don't have anything
in there anymore. And he goes, why don't we go
and find out?
Speaker 1 (23:05):
I didn't trust you.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
I didn't trust me, I tell you. So anyway, they
get the search warrant. We're in the car. I'm in
the car with the two detectives, and one turns around
to me and goes, what the fuck are we going
to find in that storage locker? Career? And tell us now.
So we're driving along Darlinghurst Road down to Boundary Street
(23:29):
where the storage locker was, and Ed was in another car.
Chris was still back at the major case and I said, okay,
can we just stop for a packet of cigarettes? And
I'll tell you maulburh read soft pack, thanks, because they
sold soft pack in those days. So one of them
got out on the corner of Darling Hert Liverpool Street
(23:51):
and Darling her Throats and got a packet of cigarettes
and I said, okay, so what you're going to find
is about one hundred thousand dollars in cash, about four
one hundred ecstasies, and about one thousand hits of LSTO.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
What they I didn't say anything about were the two
bottles of Boush and Lomb which were what you put
in contact lenses, which was still were there, which I
didn't know at the time they weren't going to bust
me for because it wasn't illegal. I had no clue.
But that was the liquid form of special K. So
when we went down to the storage locker, they waited
(24:25):
for Ed to come in in his handcuffs and me
without handcuffs, and the manager of the storage locker. So
there's all these cops there. There's a search warrant there,
and I said, oh, how's tod they going? He goes, Oh,
it's a bit slow. I said, not anymore, huh. So Anyway,
they snapped the lock and I went this, this, this,
and this, and then they left.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Your time in prison. How long did you get sentenced for? Three?
Speaker 2 (24:49):
It was three years eight months on the top, two
and a half years in jail.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
My lawyer came down after and I was sentenced to
King Streets Courts, and my lawyer came down and he went, oh,
my god, Karen, I thought you were going to get
seven to ten. He said, I was sure you were
going to get ten.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
It was pretty pretty lenient.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Yes, it was. Well, it was Judge More and in
the day they used to say get more, get less.
So my lawyer followed his circuit until we got Judge
More and then they I went to two. I pleaded
guilty at committal, right, and then I went to two
(25:27):
sentencing because the first sentencing they said this woman had
millions and millions and millions of dollars worth of ecstasy
in LSD. And he said stop right there, and he
said how many millions? And the prosecution didn't know, and
the prosecution said, well, the chemists. This is the chemist report. Yeah,
(25:50):
but it says no amount of millions. And unless you
come back to me in seven days with the correct
amount of millions, I'm letting this woman walk from court, right,
so this is Judge Moore to get judge more. This
has get more, get less and anyway, So it was
about seven to ten days I went back and they'd
gotten it down to one million and thirty thousand dollars
worth of ecstasy in LSD. Yep, that's what I was
(26:12):
busted with sentence, and that's what I was sentenced for.
And that's when I went down to the cells and
I said what was the bottom sentence? And the sheriff
so two and a half years, and I said great,
And in my head, I'm thinking that's too Marti Grau
and one sleeves ball.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
That's all that was your mindset at the time.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
It's all I thought.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Looking back, Now, does that show the state that you're in? That?
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Yeah? That was Yeah, of course it does. But see
this is thirteen months. I've already been in JAF for
thirteen months by this time, and I still had that mindset.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Yeah, well I'm missing.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
What I'm missing out on. Not that I wanted to
get back on the drugs, not that I wanted to
do another ecstasy, not that I wanted to get back
into the scene, but that's what I'm going to miss
out on party wise, right, you know what I mean?
Like it wasn't about doing another reki. I could do
another reki anytime I wanted to, even in jail. You know,
if you really wanted to, you'd find that you.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Could get it. But it's not how is jar? Was
it scary for you? Like it's you're hanging out with
the dance scene and party scene and all that, friends people,
good people around Oxford Street.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
Then you end up with murderers.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Yeah, we scared.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
I was scared shitless in SPC and the first night
in Conlin. So you go into Malowa which is now
called silver Water, but you go into Mulowah and the
first place you go to other than Reception where I
ended up working five weeks later, And even though I
wasn't a trustee, you end up where all of the
(27:48):
heroin atticts of Sydney who have had warrants and they've
been arrested on their warrants and are doing ten days
or they're doing three months or two months, are all
coming down and it is hell. It is absolute screaming hell.
And I was in a cell by myself because I
came in quite late at night and I was in
(28:09):
a cell by myself, and I thought, Okay, how am
I going to deal with this? In my head like
still not knowing what's going on. So the next morning
I came out and I just shook everybody's hand and
I went, Hi, how are you on Korean? I've just
been busting for d You know, I had to. I
had to get on top because I had no clue
(28:30):
who these people were.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
And wouldn't know how to surviving.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
No, So I got along with everybody. And then a
week later my father came out for a visit and
a country practice.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Was really big watching it, and they were the word.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Got around, came back down into Conlin all of a sudden,
Oh my god, you're Bob Hatfeld's daughter. Why didn't you
tell us? You know, a la lie, you know all
these methodonies. I'm going go in, Yeah, your mom hat Fields, Dawner.
I was in with three hundred of them, And so
(29:12):
then it got to the screws, obviously because they were
up there visits with me, and it got to the
screw So then the screw started doing this, you know,
thinking I'm better than anybody else, like just poking me
all the time. Like poking the bear, and I said,
so I'm still in Conlin. Dad's been to visit, so
(29:32):
it's already out. Dad came to visit another once before
I was sentenced. He came out after Supreme Court bar.
That's right, because he didn't he was going to do
Supreme Court bar for me and then pulled it on me.
Another story. We won't go there anyway. So the other
time he came out, I knew he was coming out,
(29:52):
so I said to everybody, Dad's coming out for a
visit next Saturday. So all of a sudden, a whole
heap of people have visits. Because what the screws were
doing on the visits was when Gordon was there and
with carin, they were wandering up to say hello to Gordon,
make sure everything was okay. So everybody down this end
(30:14):
and having big kisses and big drops. So all the
drops were going on over this.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Let's break that down. They worked out, and I suppose
this is a cunniness of being kept crims that okay,
when Bob's coming, the screws are going to be so.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Their first phone calls to their girlfriend because they were
all lesbians, Like I'm talking really literally, all lesbians and
they're all coming out. You're not allowed to kiss number one,
number two, the screws are all with Gordon. So we're
kissing and we're dropping and then all of a sudden,
it's vomiting in Conland, like all the stuff, all the stuff.
(30:54):
So that was wild, But anyway, they kept pushing me.
They kept doing this. So I was in Conland for
about five weeks. Now, usually you're in Conlin until you
at least go to committal. Well I hadn't even been
to Supreme Court Bale, but they knew that I was
Gordon Piper's daughter. But they still kept doing this. And
I said to one of them, I said, you keep
(31:15):
doing this. I said, I get one phone call a week,
and that one phone call can go in those days
to the Sun, to the Daily Mirror, to Channel seven
or Channel nine. You pick which one you want me
to go to, because I will. And so all of
a sudden I'm working in reception. That's a trustees job.
(31:36):
The girl I worked with had been in jail for
four years. People that worked in those kind of jobs
had been four and five years in jail at least.
And I'm there four weeks, five weeks, and I'm up
there at reception and also I'm in stage two. I'm
in my own cell in stage two in five weeks
because they want to shut me up. Because there's nothing
(31:57):
worse than a screw that works in a women's stale. Nothing.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Yeah, you've come out pretty strongly about that. That was
your experience.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
My experience with women's jails is all the money is
given to men's chaild. Yeah, there's no money given to
women's jails. The girl that I worked with in reception, Leanne,
she started the first aerobics class. She was given the
right to work in some bloody probably hallway. I never
went to the classes, but hallway to give the girls
(32:29):
exercise because there was no exercise at men's jails. They've
got weights, they've got whatever they've got.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
You've brought up something that I've got to say I
was naive to before I've started this, and speaking to
some women that had been in prison, Like when we
talk prisoners, we think men's prison like all the issues
or as any issues, it's generally something that's happened in
the men's prison. And I do take on board what
you're saying that women's inmates get neglected.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
One hundred percent. I have nothing. There's one screw out
of all the screws that I could say I actually liked,
and the rest treated every girl in there like pieces
of shit. And I used to do. They have things
in jail called Bluey's. Bluey is a piece of paper
that's blue and it is address and it's addressed to
(33:20):
the governor, so the head of the jail that you're in,
So it's addressed to the governor and it's I care
in gay Hofstrand would like an extra pair of pants
because might have worn out whatever, or alternatively, ikering gay
(33:43):
Hostrand would would require a legal aid lawyer because minds
just dropped me. Could be anything, could be anything. So
I used to do the blue eyes for the girls
because I was in reception. I saw girls all the
time because they come up for stuff right. And we
were also the best dressed wing because I could get
(34:03):
everything from reception.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
But is there a best dressed There is stressed.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Wing because we got the new greens and also we
got lighters which we couldn't have, and also we got
perfumes from the Colombian drug mules that came through and
had bought perfumes and you knew they were going to
be in for twenty years. So Leanne and I go
through the bags because that was our job, going through
the bags and documenting everything. So we'd get the perfume
(34:32):
put that down too, so we smelt really nice too,
and just have to hide it on master days, you know.
So I used to when the girls came up and go,
oh God, this has happened. Whatever, I'll go, I'll write
a bloey for you. And the screws hated me for
it because these are girls that were heroin addicts, that
were on methadone supplied by the state right, who didn't
(34:54):
know even how to spell half the time. So I
would write them out and they would at them in
and they knew it was me because it was my writing,
and they hated me for it. I did two for
two girls who got out on appeal. I did their
appeal bluies, and the screws just hated me. The screws
absolutely hated me because in jail also they can control
(35:19):
the heroin addicts because they give them methodone if you're
not on heroin. And I went in there drinking a
bottle of Stolies a day because I was up.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
All night Runner vodka.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Dolly's Russian vodka. So I do double stolies on the
rocks with a splash of line. And every time I
walked into any club in Oxford Street, that drinkerd be
waiting for me, right, because that's how it was. But
I wasn't a drug dealer, but anyway, so I went
in drinking a bottle of alcohol to day. Now, coming
down from a bottle of alcoholiday is a lot. But
(35:53):
you're not on heroin. So therefore, no, we don't do
anything for you. And it's like girls who you know,
have gone through domestic violence and coming down from the
PTSD of that. None, we've got nothing for you. We've
only got something for the heroin addicts. We can give
you methadone because the state supplies it, but we can't
(36:14):
supply you with a psychiatrist for your PTSD. We can't
supply you with alcoholics, an alcoholic counselor with your alcoholism. Nothing.
So no, I got nothing good to say.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Okay, what years were you in prison?
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Ninety one to ninety three?
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Okay, look, hopefully it's improved.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Well, hopefully it has, But then again I've seen people
talking and it doesn't seem like it's improved that much.
Again with women's prisons, don't know about men's prison in them.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Look, I'm happy to say that in the my knowledge
of it, I think they're probably. Yeah, the focus hasn't
been on what goes on in women women's prison because
the attention goes to the men's prison. So yeah, it's
about valid point.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Yeah, and something has to be done. I mean, you've
got three hundred women on their period at the same time.
Imagine what that's like.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
That's all because you've been living together.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
It just happens normally in people's cycles throughout life. It
doesn't matter who you are, it doesn't matter what you're doing.
But three hundred women also happened together at the same time,
and nothing's being done there is. There's nothing good that
I can say about a women's prison. Nothing good because
unless they've changed radically in thirty years, which I very
(37:28):
much doubt because the men's prisons seem to get all
the attention, then I think this women are going through
exactly the same thing. The only thing that's changed is
the area. Like now Park Lee, which used to be
a young offenders prison, is now a women's prison. And
the normal Parka which was at North Parramatta, which was
(37:49):
the minimum security is now EMU Planes, which in my
day EMU Planes was a male minimum security.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
So moved it round. Yeah, you got to prison, you
got picked up in the car. And what was the
song I read in the notes?
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Everyone's Free to Feel Good?
Speaker 1 (38:06):
That was It must have come from your TikTok that
describe it well, I got because I should browse that
you're saying, you've been in prison for a reason, stop
complaining about prison, and then you've been released, and we're
going to preface this that we would have a laugh
at some things. What was the song that you played
when you were released from prison?
Speaker 2 (38:27):
I got First of all, I had a limousine picked
me up with two friends and Chris right, and I
had sent them a tape like because it was a
minimum security, we had more access to people, and so
Chris had come out or somebody had come out and
got this tape from me, and it was on replay
(38:48):
Everybody's Free to Feel Good by Roseanne, which was really
big at the time. I had a seven hundred dollars
Carlos and Patty suit on and one of the screws said,
And I was talking to her like the week before,
and she said to me, I said, oh, yeah, so
I've got this coming. And you know, I didn't tell
him about the music. I got this coming, and I've
(39:10):
got this Carlors and Patty suit. And she said, yeah,
we had a girl in here who had a limousine
pull up, but she had class. I said, what unlike you?
Speaker 1 (39:18):
Ah? Right, So still having digs with each other.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
Still, And when you leave prison, you get an opportunity
in your parole statements, you get an opportunity to complain
about whatever is wrong. And I made like a five
page complaint about certain screws. Where that went. Who knows
(39:44):
who cares? At least I got it out of me.
But still to this day I hate them.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
But no, this is the beauty of a podcast. You
I want to hear your story.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
No, it's just people need to put more money into
women's prisons. Into story. I'm sure it's the same nationwide.
I'm not sure it's not just New South Wales, you know,
I'm sure it's worldwide because there's more male criminals than
there are females.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
I definitely I think there's been that neglect there. I'm
just going through the notes, and let's let's find the
easiest subject. A new job opportunity working in BDSM club No.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Not clubs in okay.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Explain you just take it from here, because this is
going to be an interesting discussion.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
So when I got out, I decided that I wanted
to work in bondage and discipline. I had done some
because of my stripping, I had done some full service work,
and I had friends who were doing bondage and discipline,
And there was a couple of clubs around there. They're
not clubs, they're actually salons. So there's only one now
(40:51):
still working, but there was three at the time, right So,
and then they had parties. There was parties everywhere, but
these were actual play is where people who didn't know
anybody could go, just like brothels. But in those days
there was three kinds of development applications. There was you
could run a massage parlor there was no sex, no
(41:12):
hand relief. You could run a brothel, which is full service,
or you could run bondage and discipline, which was full service,
a hand relief and also temporary piercings, whippings, etc. So
it was much more policed by the council. They came
(41:32):
in and you had to have everything correct. There had
to be synks in every room. You had to have
the yellow sharpie things, you know what I mean. It's
like beyondage and discipline is a graduate school of sex
because there is no sex. It's playtime. It's hard playtime,
but it's playtime. So anyway, I got into it because
I enjoyed it. I have trained apprentice when I was
(41:55):
working in one of them, I trained apprentices, and I
would always my first question is, I would why do
you want to do a bunch of discipline because I
really want to hurt a man. It's like, okay, you're
not going to be a mistress, because that's not what
it's about. It's not about hurting anybody. Everybody has different
kinds of pain thresholds. There's things that there's different kinds
of bondage and discipline, like this what we call slap
(42:15):
and tickle, which is honestly probably what most people do
at home anyway, you know, it's just normal. And then
there's really heavy, heavy stuff one hundred and fifty cuts
of the cane down the back of your legs, temporary
piercing deprivation like you know, being put into a latex
(42:36):
bag and all air taken out except for this, I
mean full on. There's different levels of bondage and discipline
that even I don't get involved with. There's like massive
bondage that I wouldn't even know how to do. Like
people are experts at this kind of bondage. It's a
Japanese kind of bondage. But I got into it because
I was interested in it, because it's an interesting part
(42:58):
of the sex industry. Did that for oh, probably so
ninety four to two thousand.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
And one, okay, two thousand and one, okay, so a
long time. And you said, it's something that you can't
just walk into. You've got to be training.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Yeah, and so you've got to be trained and you
so you walk into the place and there's always a
head mistress, right, And people who do it from home
have read a book. People who do it in salons
have been trained. So you can only become a mistress
after about six months of training. And so that six
(43:40):
months of training you're doing training on the weekend.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
Is that in that environment, mistress is the title that you.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
So the mistress is the title you earn, and you're
an apprentice before that, and you go in with a
trained mistress to learn, so the guy know, you go, look, yes,
this is the kind of session you want. Yeah, that's fine.
I'm just going to bring my apprentice in. He just
chip her one hundred bucks, you know what I mean,
(44:09):
And they do. That's just how it works. Or alternatively,
most mistresses are submissives. There's very few mistresses in Sydney
that I know. I don't know now, but in those
days that I know that weren't submissives. So they would
have a sex. So a guy would come in, apprentice
would come in with the mistress, and if the sex
(44:31):
was negotiated and was paid for, then there would be
the apprentice having the sex with the with the guy.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
And it's not this just hello, I did people come
in in dressed up and go I want to be whipped?
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Yeah? No, no, no, it's a full on conversation. And
one of the first books you read as a new
mistress is a book called BDS N one oh one,
and literally you have to read it page to page
and as well as your training. You can't just go
in and slap somebody. It just doesn't work like that.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Okay, So you worked at is it called the Castle.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
I worked at the Castle, the Castle, I worked at Salon.
I worked at the Castle as a manager. I worked
at Salon Kiddies, and I worked at a Enigma. A
enigma is where I learnt my trade.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
So you when you say it as a manager, you're
not involved in not involved, okay, But other places.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
When I was a manager at the Castle, I used
to have I used to train apprentices on the weekend,
and I used to have a crash test dummy come in,
like the guy come in who had a certain profession.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
I'm going to ask it, and I don't want names,
but you told me that the other other day.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
So a car used to be my crash test dummy.
And he could take more cuts of the cane on
his penis than any man I've.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Ever seen cops.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
It tough, yeah, and he was only short anyway. And
he used to do a lot of stuff, a lot
of temporary piercings. He was my crush test dummy. He
was great. I mean that he had no pain threshold,
so it was really good because apprentices make mistakes, you
know what I mean. And his pain threshold was so
high that that's why we used him as a crush
(46:12):
test dummy. They were good days.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
Well, you've said about some people and you mentioned the
Japanese where they get tied.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
Up in the I can't remember the name of the rope.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
Yeah, seeing something on that. What's the weirdstening that you've
seen that we mightn't be the right word because.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
Really bad.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
Yeah, okay, side catch killers. We've heard some.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
Bad so when I was working at a Enigma.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
No, yeah, okay, this is what I'm saying, all right,
that might be something for our listeners, even with a
listener warning.
Speaker 3 (46:52):
That's the worst thing, okay, the top second worst.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
Thing type of pain, type of pain.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
Oh, the type of pain probably. Look, there was a
lot of guys who could take a lot, like a
lot of whipping, a lot of caning, probably two hundred
cuts on the bomb, which you know when I say
one hundred and fifty cuts of the cane on your legs,
there's nothing like on your bum on your bum's fine,
(47:19):
like there's a lot of fat there. Tryed on the
back of your legs. So there a lot of guys
could take that kind of pain, I think, but I
never did it because I wasn't experiencing and this is
where where mistresses know their limitations. I worked with women
who did the breathing thing where everything's taken away, you're
(47:42):
stuck in a piece of latex like this, and that
you suck all the airs sucked out and you've got
this thing to breathe right. Very few mistresses are.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
Good enough to do that wrong.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
That to me, that can go horribly wrong. That to
me is the epitome of whatage and discipline can get to.
But with me, I was more about the caning, the whipping,
temporary piercing, that kind of stuff. So probably middle ground,
not low ground, not high ground. High ground is that
kind of bondage. Bondage and that kind of sensory deprivation
(48:17):
is incredible to look at, incredible to watch as a
session because a lot of times when those kind of
sessions come in, they'll only send so when you do
those interviews, they'll only send out the people who are
qualified to do it. So it might be two people
on a shift of five, Well, those other three, including myself,
(48:38):
would go and watch it because it was so interesting
to see, and they don't mind. The submissive doesn't mind,
the nail doesn't mind, because that's part of his turn
on is seeing other people see this. But you know,
to be tied up like that and to be in
that sensory deprivation is next level to me.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
And what do you think the clients were getting from
it then and people participating.
Speaker 3 (49:03):
In it, Well, it's a turn on.
Speaker 2 (49:07):
Sexual it's a sexual component, and they will come.
Speaker 3 (49:11):
Men will come from the pain, from the pain or.
Speaker 2 (49:15):
From the discomfort. It's not even you know, yes, it
can be painful, and that's the whole thing. And then
there are safe words. If it gets too bad, they
go mercy mistress. And any mistress who doesn't stop after
mercy mistress is not a real mistress because that is
like a no. Whereas you know, in full service, there's
(49:36):
no such thing as a stop because men don't know
how to stop in full sight.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
Okay, so what what what you're saying here is it's
because it is so on the it has to be
more more regulated. Regulated type of people that come there
without naps.
Speaker 2 (49:52):
Your lawyers, politicians, people who have to doctors, lawyers, people
who have to think every day. Like I like doing
submissive work myself when I was not anymore at seventy
not anymore, but I like to be a submissive because
I'm a thinker, and so you just switch off and
(50:13):
you just like, let somebody else do the thinking for
me for an hour, please, And it's just the best release.
It's absolutely the best release. And when my grandmother died,
I used to have this was privately was I wasn't
working for anybody at the time. I was actually managing
massage parlors. But I had a master and he was great,
(50:35):
and his wife used to send him to me because
his wife would go, Krinn, he needs to come and
see you now, you know. So anyway, he was great,
and I had after my grandmother died. So she died
in the April, and in the September, I saw him
and I said, this is it. This is our last session.
And I made it the most cathartic session, like, hurt
(50:58):
me as much as you want, because I need to
get it out of me. And I cried for the
whole three hours, just because my grandmother's death had done
so much damage to me that I needed this to
get through. And I never saw him again, and we contact.
We were in contact for a few years after, but
I never saw him physically again.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
Well it's interesting and thank you for giving us an
insight into that world, because I'm sure a lot of
people haven't experienced that. But the being curious of people.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
Need to People need to broaden their outlook or broaden
their mind on what sex involves or sexuality involves. Sexuality
is not all wham bam, thank you, ma'am. Sexuality comes
in many forms, and BDSM is just one of them,
and it is the Graduate School of Sex.
Speaker 1 (51:47):
Okay, interesting, where do I go from there? I'm lost
for I'm lost for words. Let me check my notes. Looking.
First of all, I just want to talk about your sorry,
going from that topic into your father that was charged
very publicly with a sexual assault to.
Speaker 2 (52:09):
Seven and fourteen year old.
Speaker 1 (52:11):
Yes, talk us about that, because I know you're passionate.
Speaker 2 (52:15):
It was really good. We were getting ready. I know
it was Marti Gras time and we were getting ready
because I was in the Martyro Parade for eight years
up until nineteen ninety nine OHET ninety nine, two thousand
and two. So I was in the parade, and in
the parade there was dikes on bikes, and then there
was the Red Ribbon Ladies. So we were the Red
(52:36):
Ribbon Ladies, and each year. We used to make out
fits and I was the only girl. The rest of
them guys, and we all got dressed up and made
money for charity. Da Da Da da da. Anyway, and
I know it was around that time because we were
making outfits and there was a thing on the news
about my father about being charged with sexual assault or
(52:57):
sexual interference or whatever the wording was of two miners.
And then there was a picture of Dad. And then
I rang my grandmother, who is my mother's mother, who
doesn't like my father, remember, yeah, And I said, then
(53:17):
Dad's on the news, and she goes, I know because
I know, I just saw it. And I said, what
is going on? And she said, I know one hundred
percent he didn't do it. And this is the woman
who did not like my father. And I said, how
do you know that he didn't do it? She said, well,
first of all, he never touched you, or he never
touched my brother, right, And she said, second of all,
(53:40):
he doesn't have it in him, because then he was
he had type two diabetes. He was one step away
from being an amputee. He ended up being a bilateral amputee.
He had no interest in sex or whatsoever, so anyway,
I called the cops. This happened in Penrith. I call
the cops in Penrith. I said, I'm god in Pipe's daughter.
(54:01):
Can you tell me what's happening? They set up we
really can't give out any details. I said, okay, can
you tell me the age of the people the children?
And they said eleven and fourteen. I said, right, thank
you very much. I rang my father and I said,
my father and I were on tenuous terms at this time.
And I rang my father and I said, and he goes,
(54:22):
I know, what do you want to know? And I said,
I want to know if it's true. And he goes, well,
what do you think bugs? I said, no, I don't
believe it, but i'd like to know because I'm going
to get interviewed, I'm sure by Channel seven, Channel nine
or Channel ten. Being sarcastic, you know, anyway, he goes,
it's not true. So this was front page news for
(54:42):
over a week. However, many months later, after he's already
had one leg taken off, he's wheeled into course. You
see there's a photo of him being wheeled up the gangway.
And then there was no case to be found, and
there that came out on page twelve in this.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
Much there's a disparity of the way.
Speaker 2 (55:06):
So then I went and changed his Wikipedia.
Speaker 1 (55:09):
Page right because it still had those allegations, because I
don't know anything about the case, but I remember it
being very from a policing point of view, but I
remember it being very big in the media.
Speaker 2 (55:21):
Yeah, it was very big in the media until it
came to there's no case to be heard, and then
it was on page twelve in a paragraph, this bit.
Speaker 1 (55:29):
I've got to say that you have lived a interesting life.
You're very forthright. Have you always been forth right? Yeah?
It served you well.
Speaker 2 (55:40):
Well, I just believe that if you don't if you
don't tell the truth, then you're lying. And lies are
harder to keep up on than truth is. And why
am I I've lived it? And like people will go,
you know, I say I've been busted, you know, or whatever.
You know, it's usually about the bust or you know
(56:02):
about me, and I'll go, yeah, I was busted. Why
do you tell people that? Because I was? What am
I going to tell them? Happened from the eighth of
June nineteen ninety one to the eighth of Deceeven nineteen
ninety three.
Speaker 3 (56:13):
What that I just went off the you're busy.
Speaker 1 (56:15):
I know, drugs.
Speaker 2 (56:19):
What do I think of them? Now?
Speaker 1 (56:20):
Whether you think of them now, do you subscribe to
legalizing drugs or what do you? How do you do?
Speaker 2 (56:27):
I live in the cross, so to me, they're kind
of legalized anyway. I mean, you know, I have my
CBD or also, I know that's legalized, and I have
flowers what they call flowers, which are bards, which you know,
I get from my doctor, so that's legalized. And in
regards to heroin, they've got the injecting room, so that's
(56:48):
not legalized, but I mean, at least there's the government
doing something about it. I've lived up there when there
was no injecting room and they had the garbagemen on
hazard pay on the Saturdays and Sundays because of the
amount of syringes. So I'm all for the injecting room.
I live across the road from it, so I don't
like what comes out of the back of it, but
it is what it is, you know. I'd rather have
(57:10):
it there than not. In regards to things like ecstasy
or ice or I don't even know what the drugs
are around these days, but all I know is whatever
is around these days is crap, like the if you
take an ecstasy now like they're taking four a night.
Like I still have contact with the girls that I
(57:32):
worked with in the massage pilots, right, they're in their
thirties and forties, so they're like still out partying and
they're like, oh, yeah, I just had a really good weekend,
or you have many a kissy to take ten on
the weekend in Owaday, you took.
Speaker 3 (57:48):
The quality the quality.
Speaker 1 (57:50):
What about pill testing?
Speaker 2 (57:52):
I know that they do that.
Speaker 1 (57:54):
Now do you agree with it?
Speaker 3 (57:55):
Do you one hundred?
Speaker 2 (57:57):
I agree with people being at the start of of
festivals and stuff like that, not to bust them, but
let's get a test in there, because there's people, as
we know, these festivals that are going on now, not
like our day when it was like rave parties of
a night. These festivals of a day, there's eight and
(58:19):
ten people oding. So there's eight or ten people who
have dealt with somebody just there at the festival. So
why are they instead of freaking everybody out to bust
them at the beginning. Why aren't you pill testing at
the beginning or powder testing at the beginning.
Speaker 3 (58:39):
You're not going to stop it.
Speaker 1 (58:40):
I think if I was a parent, I had kids
are going to a rave party or whatever, I'd feel
more comfortable with them on.
Speaker 2 (58:50):
Testing them, because the other option is them getting no,
you can't come in, you're busted, or no you can't
come in, leave, and then going to pick up another
one on they're you're not going to stop it. It's
not like it's not I saw something on something the
other day and said that it's not something about the
war on drugs, and it's not the war on drugs,
(59:12):
it's the war on addiction. Well it's not even a
war on addiction anymore. It's the war on quality. If
the drugs were the quality of what I was brought
up with being when I was feeling when I was
brought up, when the ecstasy were around, with the cooke
was around, when all the drugs were around in those days,
and nobody was stamping on it a hundred times, then
(59:34):
you could feel safe about people taking them. Now I
wouldn't know, Sorry, I wouldn't trust anything on the streets now,
especially anybody who gets involved with eyes is just a
goddamn idiot, absolute idiot.
Speaker 1 (59:47):
Well you see the effects effects of that the effects
of it. Yeah, why would you want to go down
that path? What about education? Do you think that makes
a difference.
Speaker 2 (59:55):
Nobody listens. You're talking about kids, talking about you and
me at eighteen to twenty two or fifteen to twenty two.
At twenty two, you start thinking a little bit more sensibly,
a little bit more sensibly. But fifteen to twenty two,
or however old you are that your parents let you
(01:00:16):
out from one of these festivals, you're not thinking sensibly.
You're not thinking about ending up in hospital with intubated,
oded and brain dead. You're not thinking about that. You're
thinking about the party. There's no education, because education goes
in one ear and out the other. It's just it's
(01:00:36):
not comprehending. It's like, yeah, sure, that's not going to
happen to me, not at all. It's like being a
drug dealer and going, yeah, it's not going to happen
to me.
Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
Wow. Fascinating, fascinating discussion, a fascinating conversation with people want
to follow you more on TikTok? How do they find you?
Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
My TikTok name is Korean Kae in nineteen fifty four,
because that's a year I was born cool.
Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
Okay, so if I do a quick calculation, I'm only
pretending here because you've already said that you're seventy any
other adventures you've got planted?
Speaker 3 (01:01:16):
No.
Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
People tell me I should write a book. People tell
me that all the time. But it's like, somebody give
me a million dollars or a couple of and not
even a million, even two million, and I'll sit and
write it. But right now I don't have the money
to sit and write a book.
Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
You know.
Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
I have other things and going on in my life.
But my thing, my passion, pre COVID. I haven't been anywhere.
Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
Well.
Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
I've been to New Zealand. I've been to Perth. I've
been to Melbourne because I love Melbourne. But my passion
is travel, My passion, absolute passion is travel. I've traveled
since two thousand and eight. I've traveled every fifteen months
overseas for at least two months a year up until COVID.
Now I'm too scared to get on a plane for
(01:01:58):
that long because everybody that gets on a plane for
thirty hours seems to end up with COVID one way
or another. They're either on their way over on Korean
I'm here, but I'm sick, and then take four days
out of your vacation to get better or ten days
out of your vacation to get better, or get it
on the way back. And I'm just not prepared to
do it, even traveling business class, I won't do it,
(01:02:20):
and you wouldn't get me traveling economy.
Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
So I'm sorry, ladies.
Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
I can't do it. I just I'm six foot all.
Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
Back.
Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
There is not that far. I only go north.
Speaker 1 (01:02:35):
Well, I'm sure you're still going to have a lot
of fun whateverever you do. Your outlook on life it
seems to be very positive and take what's out there
on offer with life and enjoy yourself.
Speaker 3 (01:02:47):
So thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
I really appreciate you coming on. That's been a lot
of fun, as I suspected it would be. And good
luck with your TikTok and everything else you do. But
thanks for being so far right and what you've what
you've told us about, and uh yeah, it's been interesting.
Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
Thanks so much. Been good here. H m m m hmmm,
mhm
The public has had a long held fascination with detectives
detective sy aside of life. The average person has never
exposed her I spent thirty four years as a cop.
For twenty five of those years I was catching killers.
That's what I did for a living. I was a
homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,
I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.
(00:23):
The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories
from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw
and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some
of the content and language might be confronting. That's because
no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.
Join me now as I take you into this world.
(00:45):
In part two of my chat with Korein Hofstrand, we
learn about BDSM clubs, which has been a real eyepner.
We talk about managing brothels and the time in prison.
We also get her thoughts on drugs and the sex
indust and a whole lot more that we talked about. Now,
get ready for an insight into a world most people
(01:06):
don't get to experience. Corinn Yes, no, I don't worry.
This is not the police interview. You don't have to
deny that allegation. I'm making no allegations.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I deny nothing anyway. I admit everything.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
So you would have been a great one to interviewed
from a cops point of view.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I had the best time with the two cops, the
two detectives. They were both Look, as I said to
you before, I have nothing bad to say about the
guys who busted me, the minions, the minions that came
in there may had a problem with you, the ones
who actually sat me down at Major Crime and talked
to me and threatened me and did everything in a
(01:50):
nice way. And then when I was in that hell
whole called SPC, they came down. I don't know what
was happening upstairs. I have no clue who detected who whatever,
but one of them, the other guy, came down and
he said, Korean, why the fuck didn't you tell me
who your father was? I said, what are you going
to let me out now? And I was just like,
(02:12):
you know, they were really all the way through.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Ye. Look, I like it when I hear stories like that,
because cops are doing their job as everyone appreciates, and
if they're doing it but they're fair. They can they
can be hard, but fair.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
With me.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Okay, well, clearly you're not a fan of the holding
cells at this SPC. But we'll move on. Those that
were listening to Part one would have heard about your
journey on the way to New York and you got distracted.
In Hawaii, you studied to become a nurse, you worked
in an ICU unit. You also worked as a waitress
(02:47):
and a stripper, and you started dealing drugs on a
cruise that you recommend to anyone.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Ye seven days America, do it now?
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Okay, I'm not sure if they've still got the drug
dealing on that.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I don't think they do.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
I think it's pretty claim warning.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
You don't go there for the drive, but the actual
trip the cruise. So when you came back to Australia,
was that when you realized that drugs got hold of it.
Chris and Chris and your breaken up with Mark and
you started seeing Chris. You met him on the cruise.
I think it's important to say here that Chris has
(03:23):
never been accused of any wrongdoing. He sent you back
and said you just need to sort yourself out.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
So that was nineteen ninety.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Okay, and you've come back here, but you didn't quite
sort yourself out.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
No. I came back here and I lived with my
grandmother yep. And so this is early nineteen ninety, like
late eighty nine, ninety Christmas basically, and I was working
cocktail waitressing, waitressing. I was working in some really good
restaurants actually, like Cables of the Regent. I was working
(03:57):
at the Clock Hotel in the I had used to
have this great steak house downstairs, and a couple of
other restaurants up in the Cross that were really good.
And through doing that, I started or because I was
here by myself, like Chris was still back there and
I was here by myself, and I kind of didn't
(04:19):
really have a I had girlfriends that I knew, but
they kind of weren't in the same scene as me.
I was not in any drug scene of any description,
but I was because of Chris, in the gay scene.
And I then found out about Oxford Street. And then
I met who was still one of my friends today,
who was the manager of the Albrey. And I met him,
(04:42):
and through him, I met other guys and just became
a bit of a party scene. Marty grow and Slee's
Ball became a thing. And that's when I met Ed,
and Ed came over from the United States. This was
the start of it. So I was just a normal
person doing normal ecstasy like everybody else on Oxford Street.
(05:03):
I wasn't trying to find coke because I knew the
coke here was crap. So coke was out of my life,
gone goodbye. So that this guy, So I was just
like buying ecstasy like everybody else was like this. This
was the drug of choice. You didn't have to drink
with it.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
That met the needs of the party scene.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
And it was a clean party scene. It was fun.
Everybody was in a good It was called the I
Love You Tree drug for a reason, you know. And anyway,
so I met this guy named Ed and he'd come
over from the United States with I don't know how many,
and I was a connection to a lot of friends
on Oxford Street who were working because it was Marti
(05:43):
Gras and who were working couldn't get off work, and
so I'd buy ten for him, ten for him whatever,
you know, whatever they needed. And Ed got to know
me through that, and so anyway it went on. I
was just you know, we went to Mardi Gras, and
then I.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Was again that sort of you just start off, you're
enjoying the scene, you're using, and then it became available
to you started selling it. All of a sudden, you
find yourself as a drug dealer.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah because of Ed. Yeah, well I'm blaming it because
he's the one that sent them over to me.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
So he was from the United States, and we were
sitting out the front of what used to be a
cafe on the corner of Crown and Oxford Street, and
it was now it's a little seven to eleven, and
we were sitting on the steps out of it, high
as a kite on ecstasy. And he said to me, Karin,
if I sent you over three hundred ecstasy a week,
(06:40):
would you send me the money back. I was like, yeah,
sureuse I will a kite on your ekis of course
I'm going to do that for you. Yep, no problem,
thinking it's just ecstasy post Mardi Gras talk. This was
a Sunday morning after you right, So I went home
(07:01):
on the Tuesday, or whenever I got home, and I
said to Chris, you know, Ed said to me, he's
going to send over you know whatever, yeah, yeah, la
la la, you know, a talk talk talk. So about
a week later I get a phone call from the
United States from Ed and he goes, okay, so I
need you to go to Bondo Junction post Office or
Bondo Post Office post A Restonte under this name and
(07:24):
this name being whatever it was, and you're going to
take this letter saying you are who you are, and
you have the the authority to pick this up. And
there's going to be six macadamia nut canisters, right, okay,
all right, yeah whatever post a post a Restonte is
(07:45):
and they still have it to this day. I didn't
think they still had it, but they do. And it
is where people who don't live here. So say, for instance,
you're in America and you want to send something here
to yourself, right, and you've got no address here, your
(08:10):
holidaying over there, but your flat you don't have a
flat ear and so you need to get this delivered somewhere.
So it's delivered to post Averstonte kind of like those
postbox I suppose now I don't know, but in the
day it used to be you could send something to
post A Restonte. So what Ed used to do was
(08:31):
he would body up a name, So say Julie Smith
and he'd go use the name Julie Smith. So I
would go to whatever post office, and I went to
every post office in the eastern suburbs and I would
go and say right out, I Julie Smith, give Kareingo
Hofstrand the okay or whatever to pick up my package
(08:55):
and then sign it.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
And that was and in those days you could do
that because you.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Didn't have a photo ID. You just had ID and
it didn't even happen.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
It was a simpler time, a simpler time.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Yes, And so I go and pick it up, bring
it home. We were living on Stanley Street and I'm
opening them and you know when you open cans, they go,
So I'm opening them and I'm going, yeah, whatever. And
we get to like the third or fourth one and
we go and tip it out and it's only like
this full of Macademian nuts and the rest is ecstasy.
He has done the perfect job of ceiling that back
(09:34):
and there was three hundred ecstasy in there. And so
that's how.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
It's And how often would this take place.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
It took place about once every two weeks. And he
would send it in so many different things, like it'd
be a chocolate box.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Okay, and everything was mixing, was mixing it.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Up all the time, and every time he did it,
and like, okay, so for instance, say this was not true,
but say it was one of those fantails things that
you get the favorites. But the ceilant on the plastic
was like it had never been opened. He was a
brilliant person at doing these repackaging. I have no clue
(10:15):
how he did it. And then every couple of weeks
after that, I'd send him back. I'd go to different banks,
and I'd send him back when I got to that
point nine dollars because keeping it under the ten thousand slightly.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Flagger exactly right, Okay, did you appreciate that's this and
you started to roll in the money? I would imagine
when this. Did you appreciate how deep you were getting
into what you were getting? Did you even think about
the consequences? Did you like the drugs that you're dealing?
Did you worry about the harm? Was it okay?
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Because and as I said in my statement to the
judge when I was sentenced, I was dealing ecstasy, a
dance party drug, and LSD right because his brother had
bought over all these LSD which were terrible, which ended
up sitting in my drawer, which they ended up finding anyway,
they found it. Whatever, two people over the age of
(11:13):
twenty one or at least over the age of eighteen,
who were in a scene being the gay scene of
Oxford Street. I was not standing at a kindergarten gate
selling heroin.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
And that's how I.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Felt about it. I didn't feel I had felt absolutely
no remorse about selling ecstasy because it wasn't a bad
drug in those days, not now, not talking about now,
not condoning that now, But in those days, you couldn't
get anything more pure as a drug, as a party
drug that you only had to do a half of
(11:48):
to do eight hours of fun with no alcohol, with
a chopper chop in your mouth and a lemonade and
go to Marty Grreslea's ball or any of the dance
parties that were on every Friday and Saturday night.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
You didn't see there's any any harm? No, right, No,
Did you understand that how the law would come down
on you. Did you understand that you're now in the
international drug deal?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Yes? But I was never charged with international Yeah, yeah,
but that was the good thing.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Did that did it weigh on your mind.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
If you're a drug dealer and you don't have that
in the back of your head at every minute of
every day, you're an idiot. Don't care how far up
the chain you are. And I was just a dance
party drug dealer who had the Oxford Street bartenders working
for me. Every bartender on Oxford Street was working for me.
(12:39):
I dropped ten a day into each bartender, one bartender
or shift, and they would sell ten, they'd get one free.
I'd go back down during the night pick up because
the tenant go like that.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Yes, how did you get into that? You said? It
was sent.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Because ED got me into it. Ed because it was
apparently something that was happening in the States. Yep, right,
and so this is like not.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
On do you drug deal or say to each other, Hey,
this is good shit.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Well yes, basically basically he said to me, I think,
but from memory, it was a phone call. He said
to me, there's this new stuff going around and it
is actually just horse tranquilizer, but it's taken in conjunction
with an ecstasy because it puts you in a k hole,
(13:28):
and the k hole you really do kind of lose
lose everything. So everybody at dance parties would have like
a scarf or something, not a scarf, but a tie
of some description of four pieces of four square and
they'd have it in their mouths like that. So you
all went down the K hole together because you literally
felt like you were going down the K hole. And
(13:48):
then you've got the ecstasy on top of it. But anyway,
you only ever did a little bump. It wasn't like
a line. It was just a little bump and you
just went I used to call it the snap, crackle
and pop drug because you just felt like whee, you know.
And he sent it over to me and he said, okay,
so this is the chemical formula. You put this much
(14:08):
in to make this much whatever. He sent me over
the bouch and lawn borels and I cooked it up
and I told everybody because a gram was two hundred
dollars now ninety ninety one. Two hundred dollars was a
lot of money. Like ecstasies were only fifty bucks, so
this was this was an investment, you know. I think
coke was about the same, but this was a new
(14:29):
drug and so we could charge that much. And I
used to say to everybody who came in to try
it into my house at twenty five West Street in Bandington.
I used to say, just do a bump like this. No,
don't listen to Quinn. Don't listen to quin. Let's just
do a line like we do coke because I'm so
experienced at what I do. And then they'd be stuck
(14:50):
in my house for two or three hours at a
time because they were down that k hole. That was
sweet and you couldn't go anywhere, you know.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Break the night, damn them. Okay. And you think that
was the that was when it was first came in
to Australia.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yeah, it was the first because I wasn't busted for it.
They didn't know about it.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
I didn't know about it. And Michael, my lawyer, I
came down and said, you're the first person I know
that hasn't even been hasn't even gone to court yet,
and has had two laws changed because the MDMA thirteen
Dust twelve law changed. I mean, I'm pulling those numbers, transitor.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
I was, Yeah, okay, I always looked at it. You
put it, You put a lot of trust in people
that you're working with, as in you dealing with the
drugs and all that, because in my experience with police,
you catch one person that's shitting themselves and they go,
I'll tell you who the dealer is, and that that's
pretty easy investigation.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
The follow up once.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
But how I got caught was I was put in
by In those days, they had a thing called dubin
a dealer.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
I worked on that in early stage as in my
police career. Maybe maybe, but this is right at last.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
So that's how I got caught, and I got I
knew that from one of these two detectives that were
the good detectives.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Just to let me, let me explain what Dobbin the
Dealer was it was, and I disc well, it's still
still runs in some form today.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
But then it was advertised on TV.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
But yeah, they did a real promotion. And that's where
you just got dragged in from everywhere and we're literally
bank of telephones. It was like a telephone exactly. It
was literally like that, and people are just phane up
and say, this person's been selling drugs at this address
blah blah blah, and we gal all the information and
that's how you go.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
It was another dealer who did it.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Well, I'm glad I didn't waste my time going there
that day. I wasn't sure if there was any arrests
that came from that, but well that's another risk that
you take.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
So the other drug dealer who I know, and I
always say, revenge is a better dish serve cold, but
it's very cold right now because I I'll haven't done it,
but I know who it was because he went and
mouthed off after and I had more friends on Oxford
Street than he did, and so they all told me
that he'd mouthed off up after it, right, And so
(17:17):
that Dobin Adler was the only thing that brought me down.
It wasn't any of the guys.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Then.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
What happened was they apparently so they always ran that
in the May. For some reason, I had a certain
weekend they did it, so they had a month of
surveillance because I wasn't busted till June eighth. And apparently
I lived on West Street, which a very small street
in Paddington, and so there's I lived in a terrace house.
(17:42):
There's terrace houses across the road, terrace houses everywhere. And
apparently they'd got the okay from the terrace house across
the road to do surveillance to my bedroom, which was
the top bedroom, which I had no qualms about sitting
there counting my extasy because there was nobody around.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Sorry, I'm just sitting in there game again with the binoculars.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
And I had draw as I said, I had draws
of LSD because the LSD was crap and I didn't
sell it. It was just there. They came across it
and I was like, oh my god. I didn't even
realize I was there anymore. And then so they came in.
So they had this month long surveillance. Apparently they came
in at seven o'clock in the morning. When I say
(18:30):
seven o'clock could have been seven thirty. I was up
in the top bathroom. I lived with three guys, Chris
and two other gay guys who were a couple, and
I thought it was one of them wanting to use
the bathroom. And I was in my pink flamingo pajamas
and I said just and they knocked at the door
and they said get out now, and I said, just
hold on a minute, guys, and they said it's the police.
(18:52):
And I was like, okay, I got to clean the
teeth anyway, so they're saying, now, so I just put
some toothpaste on my thing. And then they held the
warrand up in front of me, the search warrant, and
for some reason, although somebody corrected me on TikTok, for
some reason they they I thought it said a year,
that they had a warrant for a year, but somebody
(19:15):
said no, it had to be a day or forty
eight hours or something whatever it was. Anyway, the date
was wrong. So it was the seventh of June. It
was dated, and this was the eighth of June. So
I'm thinking, no, it's dated. I said to him, it's
stated wrong, it's the seventh of June. Yeah, I'm thinking yes.
But anyway, then he explained it to me and I
(19:38):
was like, okay, well whatever. So then we all sat around.
There was people there from the night before. I was
in bed, but there was people from there from the
night before. So I'm walking around the house with them, right,
and we will go out. So we've gone from the
front to the back of the house, and in the
back of the house, in the oven there was special K.
(20:02):
So then not special K as in the the not
the corn flakes so they are opened they'd seen. I
don't know what they saw, but they opened up the
oven obviously because they're opening up everything, and they're like,
what's this. And I had been cooking it the night
before and turned it off and left it there because
it had to cool down anyway. And so I because
that's the kind of trust I had with everybody, like
(20:24):
I didn't. It was nothing to me that there's like
ten thousand dollars worth of special K sitting in.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
The oven and the special K kem.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Ketm and so they said to me, what's that and
I said it's special K and they said, what like
the corn flakes? I said, no, like the ketamine that
you give horses. It's a dance party drug. And they
went all right, okay. So I was the first person
in Australia to be busted with ketamine. And so they
changed the law to make ketamine illegal. So the kenemine
(20:54):
that I had, I couldn't be busted for right, And
so in those days, it's funny when I go in
those days. In those days, we didn't have mobile phones
and we had answering machines, and so the answering machine,
my answering machine was always on volume on. I suppose
(21:16):
thinking back, I think you could have it on volume off.
I can't remember, but I think you could. But anyway,
so while they were there, because it was a queen's
birthday weekend and everybody was coming to get their drugs
or alternatively wanted to order them, there came through, like
in the time, like twenty calls and it was like Korean,
(21:37):
are you there, Korean? I need to pick it up Korean.
Then we were all just laughing really because it was
just ridiculous. So what they did, apparently again I don't know,
was they went back and traced the calls to whatever
phone number it was.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
That's probably what they did.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
So anyway, and Ed was hand I was not handcuffed.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
At all, Pink Flamingo, but they let me change.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
It was about two o'clock in the afternoon. Ed was
still handcuffed to the bottom of the stairs. It was
to terrace, you know, and he had had an accident
because he was so scared. And I was actually as
cool as a cucumber. When they took us down to
Major Case across from SPC on that little road that
(22:26):
goes down to Central. I'm sure you know it well,
when they took me in there, they'd gone through my
house like literally, and I was at one desk and
Chris was at another desk, and all of a sudden,
I see this thing come down in front of my
face and it is a storage locker receipt. And whoever
(22:50):
was standing behind me said what's this? And I said
it's a storage locker receipt and I said, I said, yeah, right,
and he said and it's dated, say, the twenty third
of June. I said yeah, but I don't have anything
in there anymore. And he goes, why don't we go
and find out?
Speaker 1 (23:05):
I didn't trust you.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
I didn't trust me, I tell you. So anyway, they
get the search warrant. We're in the car. I'm in
the car with the two detectives, and one turns around
to me and goes, what the fuck are we going
to find in that storage locker? Career? And tell us now.
So we're driving along Darlinghurst Road down to Boundary Street
(23:29):
where the storage locker was, and Ed was in another car.
Chris was still back at the major case and I said, okay,
can we just stop for a packet of cigarettes? And
I'll tell you maulburh read soft pack, thanks, because they
sold soft pack in those days. So one of them
got out on the corner of Darling Hert Liverpool Street
(23:51):
and Darling her Throats and got a packet of cigarettes
and I said, okay, so what you're going to find
is about one hundred thousand dollars in cash, about four
one hundred ecstasies, and about one thousand hits of LSTO.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
What they I didn't say anything about were the two
bottles of Boush and Lomb which were what you put
in contact lenses, which was still were there, which I
didn't know at the time they weren't going to bust
me for because it wasn't illegal. I had no clue.
But that was the liquid form of special K. So
when we went down to the storage locker, they waited
(24:25):
for Ed to come in in his handcuffs and me
without handcuffs, and the manager of the storage locker. So
there's all these cops there. There's a search warrant there,
and I said, oh, how's tod they going? He goes, Oh,
it's a bit slow. I said, not anymore, huh. So Anyway,
they snapped the lock and I went this, this, this,
and this, and then they left.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Your time in prison. How long did you get sentenced for? Three?
Speaker 2 (24:49):
It was three years eight months on the top, two
and a half years in jail.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
My lawyer came down after and I was sentenced to
King Streets Courts, and my lawyer came down and he went, oh,
my god, Karen, I thought you were going to get
seven to ten. He said, I was sure you were
going to get ten.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
It was pretty pretty lenient.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Yes, it was. Well, it was Judge More and in
the day they used to say get more, get less.
So my lawyer followed his circuit until we got Judge
More and then they I went to two. I pleaded
guilty at committal, right, and then I went to two
(25:27):
sentencing because the first sentencing they said this woman had
millions and millions and millions of dollars worth of ecstasy
in LSD. And he said stop right there, and he
said how many millions? And the prosecution didn't know, and
the prosecution said, well, the chemists. This is the chemist report. Yeah,
(25:50):
but it says no amount of millions. And unless you
come back to me in seven days with the correct
amount of millions, I'm letting this woman walk from court, right,
so this is Judge Moore to get judge more. This
has get more, get less and anyway, So it was
about seven to ten days I went back and they'd
gotten it down to one million and thirty thousand dollars
worth of ecstasy in LSD. Yep, that's what I was
(26:12):
busted with sentence, and that's what I was sentenced for.
And that's when I went down to the cells and
I said what was the bottom sentence? And the sheriff
so two and a half years, and I said great,
And in my head, I'm thinking that's too Marti Grau
and one sleeves ball.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
That's all that was your mindset at the time.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
It's all I thought.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Looking back, Now, does that show the state that you're in? That?
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Yeah? That was Yeah, of course it does. But see
this is thirteen months. I've already been in JAF for
thirteen months by this time, and I still had that mindset.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Yeah, well I'm missing.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
What I'm missing out on. Not that I wanted to
get back on the drugs, not that I wanted to
do another ecstasy, not that I wanted to get back
into the scene, but that's what I'm going to miss
out on party wise, right, you know what I mean?
Like it wasn't about doing another reki. I could do
another reki anytime I wanted to, even in jail. You know,
if you really wanted to, you'd find that you.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Could get it. But it's not how is jar? Was
it scary for you? Like it's you're hanging out with
the dance scene and party scene and all that, friends people,
good people around Oxford Street.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
Then you end up with murderers.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Yeah, we scared.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
I was scared shitless in SPC and the first night
in Conlin. So you go into Malowa which is now
called silver Water, but you go into Mulowah and the
first place you go to other than Reception where I
ended up working five weeks later, And even though I
wasn't a trustee, you end up where all of the
(27:48):
heroin atticts of Sydney who have had warrants and they've
been arrested on their warrants and are doing ten days
or they're doing three months or two months, are all
coming down and it is hell. It is absolute screaming hell.
And I was in a cell by myself because I
came in quite late at night and I was in
(28:09):
a cell by myself, and I thought, Okay, how am
I going to deal with this? In my head like
still not knowing what's going on. So the next morning
I came out and I just shook everybody's hand and
I went, Hi, how are you on Korean? I've just
been busting for d You know, I had to. I
had to get on top because I had no clue
(28:30):
who these people were.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
And wouldn't know how to surviving.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
No, So I got along with everybody. And then a
week later my father came out for a visit and
a country practice.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Was really big watching it, and they were the word.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Got around, came back down into Conlin all of a sudden,
Oh my god, you're Bob Hatfeld's daughter. Why didn't you
tell us? You know, a la lie, you know all
these methodonies. I'm going go in, Yeah, your mom hat Fields, Dawner.
I was in with three hundred of them, And so
(29:12):
then it got to the screws, obviously because they were
up there visits with me, and it got to the
screw So then the screw started doing this, you know,
thinking I'm better than anybody else, like just poking me
all the time. Like poking the bear, and I said,
so I'm still in Conlin. Dad's been to visit, so
(29:32):
it's already out. Dad came to visit another once before
I was sentenced. He came out after Supreme Court bar.
That's right, because he didn't he was going to do
Supreme Court bar for me and then pulled it on me.
Another story. We won't go there anyway. So the other
time he came out, I knew he was coming out,
(29:52):
so I said to everybody, Dad's coming out for a
visit next Saturday. So all of a sudden, a whole
heap of people have visits. Because what the screws were
doing on the visits was when Gordon was there and
with carin, they were wandering up to say hello to Gordon,
make sure everything was okay. So everybody down this end
(30:14):
and having big kisses and big drops. So all the
drops were going on over this.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Let's break that down. They worked out, and I suppose
this is a cunniness of being kept crims that okay,
when Bob's coming, the screws are going to be so.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Their first phone calls to their girlfriend because they were
all lesbians, Like I'm talking really literally, all lesbians and
they're all coming out. You're not allowed to kiss number one,
number two, the screws are all with Gordon. So we're
kissing and we're dropping and then all of a sudden,
it's vomiting in Conland, like all the stuff, all the stuff.
(30:54):
So that was wild, But anyway, they kept pushing me.
They kept doing this. So I was in Conland for
about five weeks. Now, usually you're in Conlin until you
at least go to committal. Well I hadn't even been
to Supreme Court Bale, but they knew that I was
Gordon Piper's daughter. But they still kept doing this. And
I said to one of them, I said, you keep
(31:15):
doing this. I said, I get one phone call a week,
and that one phone call can go in those days
to the Sun, to the Daily Mirror, to Channel seven
or Channel nine. You pick which one you want me
to go to, because I will. And so all of
a sudden I'm working in reception. That's a trustees job.
(31:36):
The girl I worked with had been in jail for
four years. People that worked in those kind of jobs
had been four and five years in jail at least.
And I'm there four weeks, five weeks, and I'm up
there at reception and also I'm in stage two. I'm
in my own cell in stage two in five weeks
because they want to shut me up. Because there's nothing
(31:57):
worse than a screw that works in a women's stale. Nothing.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Yeah, you've come out pretty strongly about that. That was
your experience.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
My experience with women's jails is all the money is
given to men's chaild. Yeah, there's no money given to
women's jails. The girl that I worked with in reception, Leanne,
she started the first aerobics class. She was given the
right to work in some bloody probably hallway. I never
went to the classes, but hallway to give the girls
(32:29):
exercise because there was no exercise at men's jails. They've
got weights, they've got whatever they've got.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
You've brought up something that I've got to say I
was naive to before I've started this, and speaking to
some women that had been in prison, Like when we
talk prisoners, we think men's prison like all the issues
or as any issues, it's generally something that's happened in
the men's prison. And I do take on board what
you're saying that women's inmates get neglected.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
One hundred percent. I have nothing. There's one screw out
of all the screws that I could say I actually liked,
and the rest treated every girl in there like pieces
of shit. And I used to do. They have things
in jail called Bluey's. Bluey is a piece of paper
that's blue and it is address and it's addressed to
(33:20):
the governor, so the head of the jail that you're in,
So it's addressed to the governor and it's I care
in gay Hofstrand would like an extra pair of pants
because might have worn out whatever, or alternatively, ikering gay
(33:43):
Hostrand would would require a legal aid lawyer because minds
just dropped me. Could be anything, could be anything. So
I used to do the blue eyes for the girls
because I was in reception. I saw girls all the
time because they come up for stuff right. And we
were also the best dressed wing because I could get
(34:03):
everything from reception.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
But is there a best dressed There is stressed.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Wing because we got the new greens and also we
got lighters which we couldn't have, and also we got
perfumes from the Colombian drug mules that came through and
had bought perfumes and you knew they were going to
be in for twenty years. So Leanne and I go
through the bags because that was our job, going through
the bags and documenting everything. So we'd get the perfume
(34:32):
put that down too, so we smelt really nice too,
and just have to hide it on master days, you know.
So I used to when the girls came up and go,
oh God, this has happened. Whatever, I'll go, I'll write
a bloey for you. And the screws hated me for
it because these are girls that were heroin addicts, that
were on methadone supplied by the state right, who didn't
(34:54):
know even how to spell half the time. So I
would write them out and they would at them in
and they knew it was me because it was my writing,
and they hated me for it. I did two for
two girls who got out on appeal. I did their
appeal bluies, and the screws just hated me. The screws
absolutely hated me because in jail also they can control
(35:19):
the heroin addicts because they give them methodone if you're
not on heroin. And I went in there drinking a
bottle of Stolies a day because I was up.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
All night Runner vodka.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Dolly's Russian vodka. So I do double stolies on the
rocks with a splash of line. And every time I
walked into any club in Oxford Street, that drinkerd be
waiting for me, right, because that's how it was. But
I wasn't a drug dealer, but anyway, so I went
in drinking a bottle of alcohol to day. Now, coming
down from a bottle of alcoholiday is a lot. But
(35:53):
you're not on heroin. So therefore, no, we don't do
anything for you. And it's like girls who you know,
have gone through domestic violence and coming down from the
PTSD of that. None, we've got nothing for you. We've
only got something for the heroin addicts. We can give
you methadone because the state supplies it, but we can't
(36:14):
supply you with a psychiatrist for your PTSD. We can't
supply you with alcoholics, an alcoholic counselor with your alcoholism. Nothing.
So no, I got nothing good to say.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Okay, what years were you in prison?
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Ninety one to ninety three?
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Okay, look, hopefully it's improved.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
Well, hopefully it has, But then again I've seen people
talking and it doesn't seem like it's improved that much.
Again with women's prisons, don't know about men's prison in them.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Look, I'm happy to say that in the my knowledge
of it, I think they're probably. Yeah, the focus hasn't
been on what goes on in women women's prison because
the attention goes to the men's prison. So yeah, it's
about valid point.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Yeah, and something has to be done. I mean, you've
got three hundred women on their period at the same time.
Imagine what that's like.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
That's all because you've been living together.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
It just happens normally in people's cycles throughout life. It
doesn't matter who you are, it doesn't matter what you're doing.
But three hundred women also happened together at the same time,
and nothing's being done there is. There's nothing good that
I can say about a women's prison. Nothing good because
unless they've changed radically in thirty years, which I very
(37:28):
much doubt because the men's prisons seem to get all
the attention, then I think this women are going through
exactly the same thing. The only thing that's changed is
the area. Like now Park Lee, which used to be
a young offenders prison, is now a women's prison. And
the normal Parka which was at North Parramatta, which was
(37:49):
the minimum security is now EMU Planes, which in my
day EMU Planes was a male minimum security.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
So moved it round. Yeah, you got to prison, you
got picked up in the car. And what was the
song I read in the notes?
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Everyone's Free to Feel Good?
Speaker 1 (38:06):
That was It must have come from your TikTok that
describe it well, I got because I should browse that
you're saying, you've been in prison for a reason, stop
complaining about prison, and then you've been released, and we're
going to preface this that we would have a laugh
at some things. What was the song that you played
when you were released from prison?
Speaker 2 (38:27):
I got First of all, I had a limousine picked
me up with two friends and Chris right, and I
had sent them a tape like because it was a
minimum security, we had more access to people, and so
Chris had come out or somebody had come out and
got this tape from me, and it was on replay
(38:48):
Everybody's Free to Feel Good by Roseanne, which was really
big at the time. I had a seven hundred dollars
Carlos and Patty suit on and one of the screws said,
And I was talking to her like the week before,
and she said to me, I said, oh, yeah, so
I've got this coming. And you know, I didn't tell
him about the music. I got this coming, and I've
(39:10):
got this Carlors and Patty suit. And she said, yeah,
we had a girl in here who had a limousine
pull up, but she had class. I said, what unlike you?
Speaker 1 (39:18):
Ah? Right, So still having digs with each other.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
Still, And when you leave prison, you get an opportunity
in your parole statements, you get an opportunity to complain
about whatever is wrong. And I made like a five
page complaint about certain screws. Where that went. Who knows
(39:44):
who cares? At least I got it out of me.
But still to this day I hate them.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
But no, this is the beauty of a podcast. You
I want to hear your story.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
No, it's just people need to put more money into
women's prisons. Into story. I'm sure it's the same nationwide.
I'm not sure it's not just New South Wales, you know,
I'm sure it's worldwide because there's more male criminals than
there are females.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
I definitely I think there's been that neglect there. I'm
just going through the notes, and let's let's find the
easiest subject. A new job opportunity working in BDSM club No.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Not clubs in okay.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Explain you just take it from here, because this is
going to be an interesting discussion.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
So when I got out, I decided that I wanted
to work in bondage and discipline. I had done some
because of my stripping, I had done some full service work,
and I had friends who were doing bondage and discipline,
And there was a couple of clubs around there. They're
not clubs, they're actually salons. So there's only one now
(40:51):
still working, but there was three at the time, right So,
and then they had parties. There was parties everywhere, but
these were actual play is where people who didn't know
anybody could go, just like brothels. But in those days
there was three kinds of development applications. There was you
could run a massage parlor there was no sex, no
(41:12):
hand relief. You could run a brothel, which is full service,
or you could run bondage and discipline, which was full service,
a hand relief and also temporary piercings, whippings, etc. So
it was much more policed by the council. They came
(41:32):
in and you had to have everything correct. There had
to be synks in every room. You had to have
the yellow sharpie things, you know what I mean. It's
like beyondage and discipline is a graduate school of sex
because there is no sex. It's playtime. It's hard playtime,
but it's playtime. So anyway, I got into it because
I enjoyed it. I have trained apprentice when I was
(41:55):
working in one of them, I trained apprentices, and I
would always my first question is, I would why do
you want to do a bunch of discipline because I
really want to hurt a man. It's like, okay, you're
not going to be a mistress, because that's not what
it's about. It's not about hurting anybody. Everybody has different
kinds of pain thresholds. There's things that there's different kinds
of bondage and discipline, like this what we call slap
(42:15):
and tickle, which is honestly probably what most people do
at home anyway, you know, it's just normal. And then
there's really heavy, heavy stuff one hundred and fifty cuts
of the cane down the back of your legs, temporary
piercing deprivation like you know, being put into a latex
(42:36):
bag and all air taken out except for this, I
mean full on. There's different levels of bondage and discipline
that even I don't get involved with. There's like massive
bondage that I wouldn't even know how to do. Like
people are experts at this kind of bondage. It's a
Japanese kind of bondage. But I got into it because
I was interested in it, because it's an interesting part
(42:58):
of the sex industry. Did that for oh, probably so
ninety four to two thousand.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
And one, okay, two thousand and one, okay, so a
long time. And you said, it's something that you can't
just walk into. You've got to be training.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Yeah, and so you've got to be trained and you
so you walk into the place and there's always a
head mistress, right, And people who do it from home
have read a book. People who do it in salons
have been trained. So you can only become a mistress
after about six months of training. And so that six
(43:40):
months of training you're doing training on the weekend.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
Is that in that environment, mistress is the title that you.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
So the mistress is the title you earn, and you're
an apprentice before that, and you go in with a
trained mistress to learn, so the guy know, you go, look, yes,
this is the kind of session you want. Yeah, that's fine.
I'm just going to bring my apprentice in. He just
chip her one hundred bucks, you know what I mean,
(44:09):
And they do. That's just how it works. Or alternatively,
most mistresses are submissives. There's very few mistresses in Sydney
that I know. I don't know now, but in those
days that I know that weren't submissives. So they would
have a sex. So a guy would come in, apprentice
would come in with the mistress, and if the sex
(44:31):
was negotiated and was paid for, then there would be
the apprentice having the sex with the with the guy.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
And it's not this just hello, I did people come
in in dressed up and go I want to be whipped?
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Yeah? No, no, no, it's a full on conversation. And
one of the first books you read as a new
mistress is a book called BDS N one oh one,
and literally you have to read it page to page
and as well as your training. You can't just go
in and slap somebody. It just doesn't work like that.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Okay, So you worked at is it called the Castle.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
I worked at the Castle, the Castle, I worked at Salon.
I worked at the Castle as a manager. I worked
at Salon Kiddies, and I worked at a Enigma. A
enigma is where I learnt my trade.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
So you when you say it as a manager, you're
not involved in not involved, okay, But other places.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
When I was a manager at the Castle, I used
to have I used to train apprentices on the weekend,
and I used to have a crash test dummy come in,
like the guy come in who had a certain profession.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
I'm going to ask it, and I don't want names,
but you told me that the other other day.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
So a car used to be my crash test dummy.
And he could take more cuts of the cane on
his penis than any man I've.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Ever seen cops.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
It tough, yeah, and he was only short anyway. And
he used to do a lot of stuff, a lot
of temporary piercings. He was my crush test dummy. He
was great. I mean that he had no pain threshold,
so it was really good because apprentices make mistakes, you
know what I mean. And his pain threshold was so
high that that's why we used him as a crush
(46:12):
test dummy. They were good days.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
Well, you've said about some people and you mentioned the
Japanese where they get tied.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
Up in the I can't remember the name of the rope.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
Yeah, seeing something on that. What's the weirdstening that you've
seen that we mightn't be the right word because.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
Really bad.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
Yeah, okay, side catch killers. We've heard some.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
Bad so when I was working at a Enigma.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
No, yeah, okay, this is what I'm saying, all right,
that might be something for our listeners, even with a
listener warning.
Speaker 3 (46:52):
That's the worst thing, okay, the top second worst.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
Thing type of pain, type of pain.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
Oh, the type of pain probably. Look, there was a
lot of guys who could take a lot, like a
lot of whipping, a lot of caning, probably two hundred
cuts on the bomb, which you know when I say
one hundred and fifty cuts of the cane on your legs,
there's nothing like on your bum on your bum's fine,
(47:19):
like there's a lot of fat there. Tryed on the
back of your legs. So there a lot of guys
could take that kind of pain, I think, but I
never did it because I wasn't experiencing and this is
where where mistresses know their limitations. I worked with women
who did the breathing thing where everything's taken away, you're
(47:42):
stuck in a piece of latex like this, and that
you suck all the airs sucked out and you've got
this thing to breathe right. Very few mistresses are.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
Good enough to do that wrong.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
That to me, that can go horribly wrong. That to
me is the epitome of whatage and discipline can get to.
But with me, I was more about the caning, the whipping,
temporary piercing, that kind of stuff. So probably middle ground,
not low ground, not high ground. High ground is that
kind of bondage. Bondage and that kind of sensory deprivation
(48:17):
is incredible to look at, incredible to watch as a
session because a lot of times when those kind of
sessions come in, they'll only send so when you do
those interviews, they'll only send out the people who are
qualified to do it. So it might be two people
on a shift of five, Well, those other three, including myself,
(48:38):
would go and watch it because it was so interesting
to see, and they don't mind. The submissive doesn't mind,
the nail doesn't mind, because that's part of his turn
on is seeing other people see this. But you know,
to be tied up like that and to be in
that sensory deprivation is next level to me.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
And what do you think the clients were getting from
it then and people participating.
Speaker 3 (49:03):
In it, Well, it's a turn on.
Speaker 2 (49:07):
Sexual it's a sexual component, and they will come.
Speaker 3 (49:11):
Men will come from the pain, from the pain or.
Speaker 2 (49:15):
From the discomfort. It's not even you know, yes, it
can be painful, and that's the whole thing. And then
there are safe words. If it gets too bad, they
go mercy mistress. And any mistress who doesn't stop after
mercy mistress is not a real mistress because that is
like a no. Whereas you know, in full service, there's
(49:36):
no such thing as a stop because men don't know
how to stop in full sight.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
Okay, so what what what you're saying here is it's
because it is so on the it has to be
more more regulated. Regulated type of people that come there
without naps.
Speaker 2 (49:52):
Your lawyers, politicians, people who have to doctors, lawyers, people
who have to think every day. Like I like doing
submissive work myself when I was not anymore at seventy
not anymore, but I like to be a submissive because
I'm a thinker, and so you just switch off and
(50:13):
you just like, let somebody else do the thinking for
me for an hour, please, And it's just the best release.
It's absolutely the best release. And when my grandmother died,
I used to have this was privately was I wasn't
working for anybody at the time. I was actually managing
massage parlors. But I had a master and he was great,
(50:35):
and his wife used to send him to me because
his wife would go, Krinn, he needs to come and
see you now, you know. So anyway, he was great,
and I had after my grandmother died. So she died
in the April, and in the September, I saw him
and I said, this is it. This is our last session.
And I made it the most cathartic session, like, hurt
(50:58):
me as much as you want, because I need to
get it out of me. And I cried for the
whole three hours, just because my grandmother's death had done
so much damage to me that I needed this to
get through. And I never saw him again, and we contact.
We were in contact for a few years after, but
I never saw him physically again.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
Well it's interesting and thank you for giving us an
insight into that world, because I'm sure a lot of
people haven't experienced that. But the being curious of people.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
Need to People need to broaden their outlook or broaden
their mind on what sex involves or sexuality involves. Sexuality
is not all wham bam, thank you, ma'am. Sexuality comes
in many forms, and BDSM is just one of them,
and it is the Graduate School of Sex.
Speaker 1 (51:47):
Okay, interesting, where do I go from there? I'm lost
for I'm lost for words. Let me check my notes. Looking.
First of all, I just want to talk about your sorry,
going from that topic into your father that was charged
very publicly with a sexual assault to.
Speaker 2 (52:09):
Seven and fourteen year old.
Speaker 1 (52:11):
Yes, talk us about that, because I know you're passionate.
Speaker 2 (52:15):
It was really good. We were getting ready. I know
it was Marti Gras time and we were getting ready
because I was in the Martyro Parade for eight years
up until nineteen ninety nine OHET ninety nine, two thousand
and two. So I was in the parade, and in
the parade there was dikes on bikes, and then there
was the Red Ribbon Ladies. So we were the Red
(52:36):
Ribbon Ladies, and each year. We used to make out
fits and I was the only girl. The rest of
them guys, and we all got dressed up and made
money for charity. Da Da Da da da. Anyway, and
I know it was around that time because we were
making outfits and there was a thing on the news
about my father about being charged with sexual assault or
(52:57):
sexual interference or whatever the wording was of two miners.
And then there was a picture of Dad. And then
I rang my grandmother, who is my mother's mother, who
doesn't like my father, remember, yeah, And I said, then
(53:17):
Dad's on the news, and she goes, I know because
I know, I just saw it. And I said, what
is going on? And she said, I know one hundred
percent he didn't do it. And this is the woman
who did not like my father. And I said, how
do you know that he didn't do it? She said, well,
first of all, he never touched you, or he never
touched my brother, right, And she said, second of all,
(53:40):
he doesn't have it in him, because then he was
he had type two diabetes. He was one step away
from being an amputee. He ended up being a bilateral amputee.
He had no interest in sex or whatsoever, so anyway,
I called the cops. This happened in Penrith. I call
the cops in Penrith. I said, I'm god in Pipe's daughter.
(54:01):
Can you tell me what's happening? They set up we
really can't give out any details. I said, okay, can
you tell me the age of the people the children?
And they said eleven and fourteen. I said, right, thank
you very much. I rang my father and I said,
my father and I were on tenuous terms at this time.
And I rang my father and I said, and he goes,
(54:22):
I know, what do you want to know? And I said,
I want to know if it's true. And he goes, well,
what do you think bugs? I said, no, I don't
believe it, but i'd like to know because I'm going
to get interviewed, I'm sure by Channel seven, Channel nine
or Channel ten. Being sarcastic, you know, anyway, he goes,
it's not true. So this was front page news for
(54:42):
over a week. However, many months later, after he's already
had one leg taken off, he's wheeled into course. You
see there's a photo of him being wheeled up the gangway.
And then there was no case to be found, and
there that came out on page twelve in this.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
Much there's a disparity of the way.
Speaker 2 (55:06):
So then I went and changed his Wikipedia.
Speaker 1 (55:09):
Page right because it still had those allegations, because I
don't know anything about the case, but I remember it
being very from a policing point of view, but I
remember it being very big in the media.
Speaker 2 (55:21):
Yeah, it was very big in the media until it
came to there's no case to be heard, and then
it was on page twelve in a paragraph, this bit.
Speaker 1 (55:29):
I've got to say that you have lived a interesting life.
You're very forthright. Have you always been forth right? Yeah?
It served you well.
Speaker 2 (55:40):
Well, I just believe that if you don't if you
don't tell the truth, then you're lying. And lies are
harder to keep up on than truth is. And why
am I I've lived it? And like people will go,
you know, I say I've been busted, you know, or whatever.
You know, it's usually about the bust or you know
(56:02):
about me, and I'll go, yeah, I was busted. Why
do you tell people that? Because I was? What am
I going to tell them? Happened from the eighth of
June nineteen ninety one to the eighth of Deceeven nineteen
ninety three.
Speaker 3 (56:13):
What that I just went off the you're busy.
Speaker 1 (56:15):
I know, drugs.
Speaker 2 (56:19):
What do I think of them? Now?
Speaker 1 (56:20):
Whether you think of them now, do you subscribe to
legalizing drugs or what do you? How do you do?
Speaker 2 (56:27):
I live in the cross, so to me, they're kind
of legalized anyway. I mean, you know, I have my
CBD or also, I know that's legalized, and I have
flowers what they call flowers, which are bards, which you know,
I get from my doctor, so that's legalized. And in
regards to heroin, they've got the injecting room, so that's
(56:48):
not legalized, but I mean, at least there's the government
doing something about it. I've lived up there when there
was no injecting room and they had the garbagemen on
hazard pay on the Saturdays and Sundays because of the
amount of syringes. So I'm all for the injecting room.
I live across the road from it, so I don't
like what comes out of the back of it, but
it is what it is, you know. I'd rather have
(57:10):
it there than not. In regards to things like ecstasy
or ice or I don't even know what the drugs
are around these days, but all I know is whatever
is around these days is crap, like the if you
take an ecstasy now like they're taking four a night.
Like I still have contact with the girls that I
(57:32):
worked with in the massage pilots, right, they're in their
thirties and forties, so they're like still out partying and
they're like, oh, yeah, I just had a really good weekend,
or you have many a kissy to take ten on
the weekend in Owaday, you took.
Speaker 3 (57:48):
The quality the quality.
Speaker 1 (57:50):
What about pill testing?
Speaker 2 (57:52):
I know that they do that.
Speaker 1 (57:54):
Now do you agree with it?
Speaker 3 (57:55):
Do you one hundred?
Speaker 2 (57:57):
I agree with people being at the start of of
festivals and stuff like that, not to bust them, but
let's get a test in there, because there's people, as
we know, these festivals that are going on now, not
like our day when it was like rave parties of
a night. These festivals of a day, there's eight and
(58:19):
ten people oding. So there's eight or ten people who
have dealt with somebody just there at the festival. So
why are they instead of freaking everybody out to bust
them at the beginning. Why aren't you pill testing at
the beginning or powder testing at the beginning.
Speaker 3 (58:39):
You're not going to stop it.
Speaker 1 (58:40):
I think if I was a parent, I had kids
are going to a rave party or whatever, I'd feel
more comfortable with them on.
Speaker 2 (58:50):
Testing them, because the other option is them getting no,
you can't come in, you're busted, or no you can't
come in, leave, and then going to pick up another
one on they're you're not going to stop it. It's
not like it's not I saw something on something the
other day and said that it's not something about the
war on drugs, and it's not the war on drugs,
(59:12):
it's the war on addiction. Well it's not even a
war on addiction anymore. It's the war on quality. If
the drugs were the quality of what I was brought
up with being when I was feeling when I was
brought up, when the ecstasy were around, with the cooke
was around, when all the drugs were around in those days,
and nobody was stamping on it a hundred times, then
(59:34):
you could feel safe about people taking them. Now I
wouldn't know, Sorry, I wouldn't trust anything on the streets now,
especially anybody who gets involved with eyes is just a
goddamn idiot, absolute idiot.
Speaker 1 (59:47):
Well you see the effects effects of that the effects
of it. Yeah, why would you want to go down
that path? What about education? Do you think that makes
a difference.
Speaker 2 (59:55):
Nobody listens. You're talking about kids, talking about you and
me at eighteen to twenty two or fifteen to twenty two.
At twenty two, you start thinking a little bit more sensibly,
a little bit more sensibly. But fifteen to twenty two,
or however old you are that your parents let you
(01:00:16):
out from one of these festivals, you're not thinking sensibly.
You're not thinking about ending up in hospital with intubated,
oded and brain dead. You're not thinking about that. You're
thinking about the party. There's no education, because education goes
in one ear and out the other. It's just it's
(01:00:36):
not comprehending. It's like, yeah, sure, that's not going to
happen to me, not at all. It's like being a
drug dealer and going, yeah, it's not going to happen
to me.
Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
Wow. Fascinating, fascinating discussion, a fascinating conversation with people want
to follow you more on TikTok? How do they find you?
Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
My TikTok name is Korean Kae in nineteen fifty four,
because that's a year I was born cool.
Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
Okay, so if I do a quick calculation, I'm only
pretending here because you've already said that you're seventy any
other adventures you've got planted?
Speaker 3 (01:01:16):
No.
Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
People tell me I should write a book. People tell
me that all the time. But it's like, somebody give
me a million dollars or a couple of and not
even a million, even two million, and I'll sit and
write it. But right now I don't have the money
to sit and write a book.
Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
You know.
Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
I have other things and going on in my life.
But my thing, my passion, pre COVID. I haven't been anywhere.
Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
Well.
Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
I've been to New Zealand. I've been to Perth. I've
been to Melbourne because I love Melbourne. But my passion
is travel, My passion, absolute passion is travel. I've traveled
since two thousand and eight. I've traveled every fifteen months
overseas for at least two months a year up until COVID.
Now I'm too scared to get on a plane for
(01:01:58):
that long because everybody that gets on a plane for
thirty hours seems to end up with COVID one way
or another. They're either on their way over on Korean
I'm here, but I'm sick, and then take four days
out of your vacation to get better or ten days
out of your vacation to get better, or get it
on the way back. And I'm just not prepared to
do it, even traveling business class, I won't do it,
(01:02:20):
and you wouldn't get me traveling economy.
Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
So I'm sorry, ladies.
Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
I can't do it. I just I'm six foot all.
Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
Back.
Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
There is not that far. I only go north.
Speaker 1 (01:02:35):
Well, I'm sure you're still going to have a lot
of fun whateverever you do. Your outlook on life it
seems to be very positive and take what's out there
on offer with life and enjoy yourself.
Speaker 3 (01:02:47):
So thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
I really appreciate you coming on. That's been a lot
of fun, as I suspected it would be. And good
luck with your TikTok and everything else you do. But
thanks for being so far right and what you've what
you've told us about, and uh yeah, it's been interesting.
Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
Thanks so much. Been good here. H m m m hmmm,
mhm
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