Homeless kid who took down a pedophile ring: Glen Fisher Pt.1

Glen Fisher has been pushed from a moving car by his father, had his fingers severed by his alcoholic mother and was sexually abused as a child. Wanting to escape the horror, Glen ran away from home, only to land in the dangerous hands of pedophiles operating in Sydney’s Kings Cross. From breaking addiction to living on the dark streets, Glen shares how he survived the predator’s paradise. 

This episode contains mentions of sexual abuse, if you need support contact Lifeline on 13 11 14

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.
Detective see aside of life the average person is never
exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop.
For twenty five of those years I was catching killers.
That's what I did for a living. I was a
homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,
I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.

(00:23):
The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories
from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw
and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some
of the content and language might be confronting. That's because
no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.
Join me now as I take you into this world.

(00:46):
Today's guest, Glen Fisher, has experienced things in his life
that no one should have to go through, violence and
abuse on a scale that will shock you. I don't
even know how to describe what Glenn has been through.
Down by his family and let down by the authorities
who were meant to be helping him. How he is
even alive, I think is a miracle in itself. We

(01:09):
discuss heavy topics on I Catch killers, but today, I
think it's appropriate to provide a content warning. We'll be
discussing child sexual abuse, murder, violence, and a child protection
system that failed. Glenn, who was living on the streets
in King's Cross been preyed on by predators. Glenn spoke
very openly about how he got revenge on the people

(01:31):
who sexually abused him, his addiction to drugs, his time's
in jail, trying to take his own life, and how
he turned his life around so he could help others.
Have a listen to what Glenn has been through and
his views on life, I think will amaze you. It's
a heavy chat, but Glenn's story definitely needs to be told.

(01:51):
Glenn Fisher, welcome to I Catchkillers.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
He may thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
Good. Well, I'm going to apologize up front because your
name has come up to me so many times over
the years, and you should get Glenn Fisher on the podcast,
and we've got a lot of mutual contacts and friends.
And on reflection, I think I sort of shied away
from it because I knew your story. I hadn't understanding

(02:15):
of your story how heavy it was, and I don't
think I was just ready to deal with it and
you would understand that, like it's just it's a dark world.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
Yeah, absolutely, and that's honest. Yeah, I appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
Yeah, and I thought, yeah, I've got to reach out
to Glenn and then mate Adam Smith, who I first
met in prison, he called me and put you straight
on the phone. So I was pretty well stuffed and
I've got okay, well I can't eide anymore, so I
shout out to Adam for bringing this together.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
What a great man. I love watching people redeem themselves
and that's what actually is doing.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yeah, yeah, it is good, isn't it. It's really good
and doing some doing some positive stuff as you are.
And we'll talk about that because I think it's quite
amazing how you've turned your life around. And we will
talk about your childhood and I've got to say it
was horrific and yeah that's the thing. Like the childhood

(03:12):
you expect to be loved and nurtured and looked after,
so you know, to come through what you've come through,
it's quite amazing.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
I think that I've come to an understanding now that
my mum specifically was really unwell and my dad well
he's just a grub, you know, he's a predator, Like
you can't explain that. But I think my mum was
very unwell, showed schizophrenia, alcoholic, she suffered with addictions and
mental health issues.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
Yeah, well you get that understanding. As you get older,
don't you. The world becomes a little bit clearer and
you start putting the pieces together of what took place. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
Absolutely, And I think that looking at my own situation
and my own circumstances, myself being a parent and knowing
that how hard the thing to my life have impacted me.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah, you know. So, in prepping for the podcast, I've
watched some of your interviews and read the book and
heard you speak, and there's one thing that really jumped
out to me, and it's when you confronted one of
your abuses, Simon Davies. And we'll talk more and more
about that, But you bumped him on the streets of

(04:12):
King's Cross and you told him pretty much word for word.
I'll read it out one day. I'm going to write
a book and expose you, and I will hold you
accountable and tell the world what you have done. Now.
Simon Davies is a convicted pedophile, but he sort of
laughed at you and said you're a junkie. You're not
going to be alive by the age of twenty one
and you can't even write, So what are you going

(04:34):
to do to me?

Speaker 2 (04:35):
Well both those things were true at the time, yeah,
you know, but the problem was by him saying that,
Like I think that it might have been an idle threat. Yeah,
but when he laughed in my face, I thought, you know,
fuck you. I'll come back to you bo. And it
took me a while, you know, because I had a
heroine habit to deal with and a lot to process.
But I did exactly what I said I would do
and held him and others accountable. I wrote my book

(04:56):
and now I'm telling the world.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
Yeah, well, good on you. And he got convicted. Tell
us about where you're from of him? Was it both
chance meeting or you saw them out? No?

Speaker 2 (05:06):
So what happened was he was opposite the train station
on the main street of King's Cross and it was
just after the loss of my partner at the time
that we'll talk about later, and I saw him and
this is anger come over him, and I thought, I'm
going to say something to this guy. And I walked
up and I said, one day I'm going to tell
the world what you did, and so one day I'm
going to hold you accountable. I said, I'm going to
write a book because he was an author, you know,
that's what kind of inspired that thought process. And like

(05:27):
I said, he just started laughing at me. And you know, you, junkie,
you'll be dead by the age of twenty one. You
can't even read and write. I had to fill out
your forms at the refuge, which took me back, because
both those things were true. I was a heroin addict
and I couldn't read and write, not properly. I could
read him write a little, but I was kind of illiterate.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
Doesn't that a lot about the type of person he is?
Like that like beating down on the virtual kid with
all the history and yeah, we're not even dragging dragging
in at this stage the fact that the sexual abuse,
but the type of person he is, like just crushing.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
One that's in his way. Yeah, that's exactly him, you know.
And as a kid. It's funny because the very things
that I've seen him now that I despise were the
very things that I admired. And when I first met him,
he was articulate, He was clever. He was surrounded by
high profile people like prime ministers things like that, so
you know, it was easy to impress, you know, a
little boy that didn't know the world.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
That's the creepiness of it, isn't it. Yeah, they put
they put themselves in. The perception from the public is
that they're fine, up standing citizens, and they couldn't. It
couldn't be further from.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
The truth, that's right. They get themselves into positions of
power and positions of trust and attack the most vulnerable.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
You know.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
One of the things that one of my abuses said,
they were a wire. I had to wear a wire
on one of my abuses, our Grant Morris, and he
said in front of them, he said, we targeted pre
pubescent children that come from broken homes that no one
gives a shit about. And I was sitting with a
detective and two undercovered detectives at the time, and everything
in my body wanted to jump the counter, you know,
and you know, react to that. But I knew that

(06:55):
there was a process that he was slowly bringing himself
down and we got him well. But Jijuit hurt when
he said it, because you know, I wasn't the only one.
Then it was people that I love very dearly and
that were also kids are abused by these people.

Speaker 1 (07:10):
And this is the nature of the crime with these predators.
It's not a one off thing. And you would have
seen you in your time in prison, people that make mistakes,
that lash out or something goes wrong. But these people plan,
don't They they're predators is the right word for them,
because they look for their victims. They're always hunting.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
Absolutely. One of the things the couple said to me
once because I didn't want to give evidence. I was
scared to go through all that process. And he said
to me, Glenn, and he kind of was not right
to say, but it worked. He said that every person
that he abuses there after you by you not speaking
up is kind of on you. You know, if you
don't come forward and say something this guy, they go
on to continue and and I couldn't live with that, bro,
Yeah I couldn't.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
It's a true thing. But there's a big weight to
place once place on you. But you know, you got
the results. But just you know, you talk about being angry,
and I want to ask you upfront, like speaking to
you and getting the sense and there's a calmness about
you and how have you let the anger go? Because
when people, when our listeners, hear the story of your

(08:12):
childhood and what you've been through and then not just
through the family environment, but then the people that meant
to protect you, I could understand why you would be
the most angry human being. If you were still around
and not completely broken, you would be angry. How have
you managed to let that go?

Speaker 2 (08:29):
So for a lot of my life, that is who
I was. Every little thing or big thing that would happen,
my first emotion was always anger, and it was like
a child. It was a child like right ah, you know,
screaming and yelling like a kid. But what happens is
I started treating my trauma and I started working on it.
One of the things I realized that anger was a
secondary emotion when I started to understand that there was

(08:51):
actually something behind my anger, usually resenting, a rejection, hurt,
some other kind of feeling. I used to keep a book,
a reflections book, and at the end of each day,
after any incidents that I'd have, I'd sit down and
I'd write it all out, and I started to realize
that I'm actually really hurt underneath it's more hurt than anger.
I had a lot of rejection in my life, and
so they were the feelings i'd feel, and it was

(09:13):
like everything in the past, like I'd be again over
an apple, something silly, but all of that would come
to the apple, if that makes sense. And so I've learned.
I've learned to places if something happens now, it's about now,
it's not about my past. And I think my having
a family has definitely softened me as well. I don't
want to see history repeat.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
Well. Yeah, full credit to you, because I see and
a lot of the people have sat in the seat
where you're sitting that have had tough upbringings and you understand,
but yours is right up there. Yeah, in terms of
what happened, tell us about your childhood, like early memories
and through just tell us your stories, because I think
people are going to be shocked and the maze. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
So, I mean, my first memories are in I'm not
sure if it was a rehab or a commune or
what it was, but we were living in some place
and I remember being there. But my parents got chucked
out for some reason and we moved to North Sydney,
Neutral Bay, I remember that my mum and dad's brand
was a pedophile like my dad, and at this there,
I just remember all these violent confrontations with my parents

(10:17):
where my dad and mum would get drunk and they'd
physically fired each other. They would always call me out
to referee, you know, the oldest of the kids, Glenn,
come out here, come out here, And then I'd go
out and there's no winning, Gary, Like, no matter which
side I choose, I've lost to the other, you know
what I mean. But the violence, like in North Sydney,
in the first violent incident that I remember was my
mom and dad had this huge, big fire screaming and

(10:38):
yelling at each other, and then my mom told me
to go with my dad. So I went and got
in the car with my dad in this white youth
and we're driving around the corner and then just randomly
he reaches over, opens the door and just goes boot
and kicks me straight out of the car like I
don't know how fast it was going, but I remember
skidding along the road and taking all skin off my shoulders,
my elbows, and it was like and that's like it
gets worse. The violence in my life was just you know,

(11:02):
it just gets worse. But what happens is in nineteen
seventy we moved him out through it. And what ends
up happening first is that I come home from school,
so all the first thing that happens is I'm sitting
outside of our house and a guy gets shot dead.
A guy shoots his brother in the house directly across
from where we were, and I'm just sitting on the
brand of watching it, and nobody sort of pulled me inside.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
How old are we talk?

Speaker 2 (11:24):
Five?

Speaker 1 (11:25):
So that when you've been kicked the out of the car,
you are a little boy?

Speaker 2 (11:29):
Yeah, an absolute infant. Yeah. But the reason I talk
about the guy getting shot dead was because about a
week after that, I was walking up my street from
kindergarten to come home and I saw a bullwagon out
the front of my house. And I'm now seven, And
what happened is, as I'm walking up the driveway and
see the bullagon out the front of my house, I think,
what's going on? As someone hurt my dad, as someone

(11:51):
hurt my mom, have they hurt my siblings? So I
kind of rush in. My dad's been arrested for pedophilia charges.
He's in the back of the car and drunk talking
to the police, and the screaming and yelling and stuff,
and I'm buzzing around like what's going on? What's going on?
You know, like a kid does. I could comprehended. And
the funny thing was this pit all the violence in
my life, I still had this deep love for my

(12:13):
dad and my mom, you know, I just did. But
the other thing I remember was lots of promiscuity around
my mum and dad's brand, who was a pedophile. Was
what was actually happening was he was abusing me, and
my dad was abusing his kids. And I have pickbacks
and flashbacks sorry of him getting me to get on
top of his two daughters whose names I won't say,

(12:34):
but you know, I have all these kind of memories.
But what ends up happening is my dad gets taken
to jail and we get taken to an orphanage in
Luis and they dump us in this Luis my mom.
We get out about a week or so later, and
then we get put back again. My mum slashes up.
She cuts one hundred stitches in one arm, one hundred
and twenty and the other she goes through a window

(12:55):
or something and gets you know, stitches in her arms.
She ends up getting my two younger SIPs out, at
least my brother and I there. But it's when we
come out that life really takes a turn for the worst.
I go back to live with my mother. The first
incident is my mother's ever heard of Beck's and Vincent powders?

Speaker 1 (13:12):
No? I remember them, yea, in the little yellow boxes.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
Well, mister Whipby trucks back then used to bring them,
and she could hear the ding ding ding of the
mister Whiby trunk, you know. So suddenly she's scurring around
the house looking for coin, and I'm sitting in the
laund room and she goes, you stole my money off,
you didn't, your little sea, And I'm like, I didn't
take nothing. I wouldn't have had the courage to do that,
you know. She says, Oh, cut your fingers off if
you did, you know, And I'd like and anyways, she
picks up a carving knife and just goes, whush, strows

(13:36):
it at me. I like, literally moves from a big
sharp carving knife. And then this other girl comes to
the door and she goes, help me get this little
prick in the bathroom, and then they're dragging me down
to the bathroom and she literally holds me over like
you can see the scars on my finger. She literally
holds my fingers over the edge of this scene and
she puts the knife against it and just pushes. And
she didn't really cat she just push it and just
set it straight into some of my fingers and then bang.

(13:58):
I just dropped to the floor. And it was the
first time, like that was a whole new level of
violence that I had experienced. I've been hit, punch, kick,
you name it.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
This is with a weapon. This is a very control
drag you in through the bathroom.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
And the friend that yeah, I can still can't believe
that she held How are we talking? Well, she am,
I I'm so nine. I'm nine years old when this happened.
And the young girl she's only fifteen. So I've only
just found out that my mother had a relationship with
this young girl, right, so that you know, she's kind
of a victim too, if that kind of makes sense.
But when the path that angers me about it the

(14:32):
most is when they took me to the hospital. I've
got a doctor on this side sitching my finger up.
I've got a lady on this side. I've got carpet
boon all over me from being dragged on the carpet.
She's dabbing and tapping me and stuff. And then the
doctor says to him, and what happened to this little boy?
She's screaming her head off and then bang, both silent.
Not another word said people.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
Yeah, and we're going back a long long time, and
the world was a different place. But that's where we
failed the kids, wasn't Yeah, a doctor, and it's probably
easier just to say nothing, say nothing and turn a
blind eye to it. And I think it's because it's
so confronting to people, and I get that, yeah, but
it's no excuse. I honestly I've mentioned I don't know

(15:14):
your thoughts on it, but I think we should go
after people that know. Too often i've heard kids being
sexually assaulted and it's not just the predator that's doing
the sexual assault. Other people knew about it. And I
think we need to make a law on that that
you can be an accessory to murder, you can aid

(15:34):
in a bet, that type of thing. I think if
you know that a child's been sexually abused, not just
like teachers or the rules of the board. In now,
I think there's an onus on everyone and if you
turn a blind eye to it, you should be potentially
held responsible for that.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
One of the things that I've always maintained and I'll
save until the day I die. I hold more anger.
And you're here as my story goes, those who are
complicit in you and did nothing than those who actually
abuse me. Those who abuse me, I can put that
in a box. I can get that. But the ones
that know and stand by and do nothing at all,
I can't fathom that. As a father, as a man,

(16:12):
as a human. You know, if I see something wrong,
I step in. I step in, you know, And I
just can't understand how people through my story and as
you're here, as we go along, there are so many
of them, and people in positions of absolute power who
could have done something.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yeah, there's no excuse that they all need to take
a long, hard look at themselves. And I've stepped in
on things whilst in the cops and even rolls outside
the cops. And it doesn't make you popular, and it's
ugly and it's messy, but it's the right thing to do.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
And I'm sick of people saying, oh, well, it wasn't
our business, and it's everyone's business to protect.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
Kids, absolutely every single person's responsibility.

Speaker 1 (16:52):
So the family friend, when you were first sexually assaulted,
what was the dynamics there? How did they ovocate what happened?
Just after the severing of the fingers? He comes over
to visit.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
And so one of the things my mother was doing
was giving me sleeping pills to sleep all the time,
because apparently it was hyperactive. That's what it says in
my dog's files. So you're giving me these sleeping pills,
and one night, I'm asleep in my bed and all
of a sudden, I wake up and I'm being sexually
abused from behind. And when I wake up, grabs my face,
puts his hand around my mouth and just goes really

(17:23):
hard and then lets me go. And like I'm nine
years old, I don't even know what's happening or what's
happened to me. I just know that I'm in a
lot of pain, and there's a lot of gray stuff
going on from that, you know, including bleeding, you know it.
And I remember sitting on my bed, rocking back and forth,
like trying to process what's just happened to me. And
I remember walking across to the bathroom and seeing my mother,

(17:44):
you know, on the n like the noses on the
blink and and he's taken advantage of that moment and
bang come into my room and done what he's done.
And it was like I had that happen at the
Saint just lot long after my fingers had just been severed.
So that's two serious things that have happened, you know.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
And it was like.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
I went from this bubbly little boy to silent, literally silent,
like I just I was like I was walking on
eggshells everywhere I went. I was so afraid of getting backhanded, hit,
slap punched, or sexually abused that I just ceased being
a person. I was just like this little shadow getting around.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
You wouldn't know what life was about, would you. You
wouldn't have no understanding like where's your reference point, where's
the people that you can trust or guide you. But
and with that you touched on it early that your father,
who was a convicted pedophile who has taken away this
was his mate and they were swapping swapping their kids,

(18:37):
that's right.

Speaker 2 (18:38):
Yeah, And he also was very violent. His violence looked
different to my mom. My Mum's a volatile, drunk violent
you know, she just suddenly would explode. My dad was
more contained.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
You'd like.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
I used to sit like this next to my dad
all the time because suddenly my face would just go
numb and he'd backhand. It'd be something I'd done weeks ago,
three weeks ago, you didn't do whatever. You know, I'm
bang and my face would go numbs. My nose is
like that from being hit so many times dad, you know.
And it's like I just I was so afraid as
the kid. And what made it worse was when I
went to school, people had learned that if they did

(19:07):
that to me. I was doing this my whole childhood.
I was chumping all the time, and people thought it
was funny. And I mean their kids, they don't know, they.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
Would know, but I could imagine that would be hilarious
for kids.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
Yeah yeah. And they're doing it to me all the time,
and I literally it's like I know they're going to
do it. I know my body's going to react, and
I'm literally concentrating training not to do it, but I
just couldn't stop. It was like an involuntary reaction to
that trauma.

Speaker 1 (19:32):
While this was going on, Did any teachers or anyone
get a sense of what's going on? Were you're taking
the school counselors? Did they even have school counselors back then.

Speaker 2 (19:41):
It's the saddest part of my story is it's documented.
I have pages like you've got that book, I've got
dogs files, and it literally Glenn has a black eye,
Glenn has, you know, like there's so many reported incidents,
Glenn's mother has. Glenn's been telling us that his mother's
giving and sleeping tablets to make him sleep. Like it's
all documented. It's literally or documented. I never said the

(20:02):
words I'm being rape, but I said they're hurting me.
That's the words I used. That's a child's word. You know,
they're hurting me. But they just kept putting me back.
But in nineteen seventy two, a psychologist, after my mother
went into hospital for that said said, these children must
be removed from this severely disturbing home. That's the word,
severely disturbing home. And yet two weeks later, again we're

(20:23):
returned to this violent psychopath. And as much as I like,
I feel sad for my mother, what she was doing
to me and doing to us kids, me specifically, was
just beyond comprehension. It was, you know, you couldn't write
this stuff.

Speaker 1 (20:38):
No, well, that's why I said at the start, people
are going to be shocked by what you what you've
gone through with the When your father was charged with
the sexual assault of children, did he get the custodial sentence, Yeah,
so he was out of the family home.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yeah, he was out of the family home until I
don't know. He's the one actually got out of thee.
So my mother came twice to Luciam to get us out,
and then my dad when he got out of jail,
he got us out. But then as soon as he
got us out and they learned wind of that, he
got put back with my mom straight away. So, you know,
I've never been able to trace the charges. I know
he's been charged twice, and people ain't give me that

(21:16):
information because it's on my dad, which is frustrating. But
I know what I know. I know what I remember,
and it was consistent.

Speaker 1 (21:24):
And it was all that he's passed away there.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
My dad died just before Christmas last year, and my
brother within days of each other. One had a brain
tumor and my dad died of body luid dementia. I
actually went up there Gary, and my sister reached out
and said, Dad's going to die. He's got Louis dementia.
And I didn't know much about dementia, and I thought,
I'm going to go up and I had all this
stuff I wanted to stay, you know. I say this,
and I say that, and I'm driving up there and
I'm crying, like, you know, I want to get this

(21:47):
out of me, you know. And then I walked in
and my memories of this big, strong man and what
I saw was this tiny, fragile man took fifteen minutes
to get one side of the bed to the other.
I actually made a video on social media about it.
And I just sat down and I breathed out, and
I said, you know what, I forgive you. And I
had to like hurts me saying it, but I had
to forgive him Gary, because I've got a family and

(22:11):
I was carrying that and gave me so deeply, and
I thought, I'm not forgiving him for him, I'm forgiving
for me so that I can have some peace and
have some sort of life going forward.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
I get that then yeah, sometimes it seems counterintuitive that you,
how do I forgive an asshole that's done done what
he's done done to you? But it's about you. You're
going to let the angered destroyer that you're going to
Your revenge is the fact that you live a good life.
And to say if that helps you to say you

(22:44):
forgive him, yeah, good, that's right.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
And I started to see one of the worst things
in our world from my perspective, is generational trauma, generational abuse,
generational all the things of generational labor. And that's going
to be my story because of the way I was acting,
and I was fighting every man that I couldn't care
about win or not. I just need I'd had so
much anger, and then I realized what I was doing
was having an impact on people I love, and I

(23:06):
knew I had to do something about this, you know,
or history will repeat and because that's what happens, you know,
hurt people, hurt people, even within our intent, you know,
and it might look different each time. And for me,
it was attacking people all over the place. And it's like,
and what I used to do is I target someone
that bullied someone else, and it was like a way
to justify right here, so I can jump in and

(23:27):
do this, you know. And but at the end of
the day, it was something.

Speaker 1 (23:30):
In me that was needed, and a lot of people
do channel it that way, and you were seeing that
in prison a lot a lot of the people. And
you talk big, heavy muscle up tatooed bikis, yeah, a lot.
When you scrape the surface, it's from something that's happened
in their past, and they're they're reacting with anger. You know.
There's there's this conception and you know, I think there's

(23:53):
some merit to it that if you've been abuse, you
possibly could abuse again. But that's not necessarily the case.
You steer that in other ways, dysfunction ways.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
Yeah, that's right. The actra statistics around that are actually
quite low. It's quite bizarre, but you are right. What
happened is it will manifest in some way. I quite
quite often talk to a lot of addicts with the
stuff that I do now, and I keep telling them
that your addiction is a symptom of something much deeper.
For me, that was trauma, you know, and we need
to find out what that is in each person, because
it looks like you said, different in each person.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
To treat it. Yeah. The homes that you were placed in,
were they orphany? Just?

Speaker 2 (24:30):
What?

Speaker 1 (24:30):
Were they all temporary accommodation? What was the places where?
What's your sequence of events from there? Because you went
here and went out a few different times.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah. So up to the age of seven, we were
removed twenty two times and return twenty two times back
to my parents. At the age of seven, I was
put into an orphanage and then returned to my mum.
Then I was moved to my dad at the age
of ten. At twelve, I started running away. I'd had
a gupful of it, and of course running away back
then was a crime. It was called uncontrollable. So I
was charged with the crime of uncontrollable. I was put

(24:59):
in first war Am I Yasmar, then Dearrek, Derek boys
Aim And I'll never understand how you take a child
who's running away from violence and CSA sexual abuse to
be placed into an institution that is equally violent with
sexual abuse. It's like it felt like I had it
written on my fucking forehead. And I'm sorry for swearing,
but that's how I feel. I had the misfortune Gary

(25:20):
of when I was a little boy of looking like
a pretty little girl. And it's just what that's why
I was wired. And so when I was in Yasma,
like they, I was arrested with my brother and we're
putting to the junior side. And what actually happens is
they moved me to the senior side because someone in
there in wisdom decided we're going to separate siblings because
they're a power couple. So I get put onto the

(25:40):
senior side when I'm only thirteen. We're fifteen, sixteen, seventeen
year olds. And while nothing happened in Yasma, what did
happen was people kept jumping in my bed when I'd
have a shower, They'd grab me, touch me, you know,
I look at this, They'd massivate beside me, and I'm like, well,
you know, and I as a little kid, I'm still
not comprehending why.

Speaker 1 (25:56):
People How old are these other kids you're in with?

Speaker 2 (25:59):
Sixteen?

Speaker 1 (26:00):
Not right? So completely different different stages.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
That's right, that's right. I mean I'm pretty prebesdent, you
know what I mean? These you know, these are kids
that are completely different stages. And they all thought it's
a big joke and a laugh, but it set the
precedent for the next introduction I went to, which is Derek,
where I was abused twice, very savagely, one time in
my bed and once in a boiler room where and
obviously literally walks out of the room and leaves six
guys with me, like six like almost adults, you know,

(26:24):
and this little tiny boy and turning the blind eye
to it, turning a blind eye to it, you know.
And like again, I just went silent. I was this
silent kid, and happening is like I've not had any
violence in my life until Derek. What happened was the
guy asked me to have an arm wrestle with him,
and I beat him in chess first, and then they said, oh,
you couldn't beat Fisher in an arm wrestle, so give
him his arm wrestle. In some reason, I've just gone
bang and put him straight down. He's gone bang and

(26:47):
can hit me. I lost my shit, and it's the
first time in my life I just it was like
that song cowd of the County and everything just come
out of me. In one game, something I was told me,
you were reading Tommy wrong. They're reading me wrong, because
I just I just keep lashing the people are pulling
me off, and I'm going back. I actually grabbed a chair,
like I just I lost it. And it was like
all of my rage was in that one. They poured

(27:07):
into that. You know. It was the first time I
realized I was more capable than I had thought o
my life. I'd been like people went like this to me.
I did the I jumped, and I always had my
hands up like, don't let me hurt me. Don't. Yeah,
that's right. And because every time I even moved as
a kid, I just the violence was so much that
I spent a whole lot of my life counting, you know.
And so that continued on as a child through these interests.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
When you unleash like that, did that change the dynamics
for you.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
So what happened was there was this boy and I
won't say his name, but he was an older indigenous boy.
And when he got up, he put his hand on
my head and he said, this little boy, he's got
more ticket than half of your pricks in here. And
he said, the next one that puts their hand on
this kid, he said, they're going to deal with me.
And no one touched me again, but no one talked
to me either. I just became like, you know, I'm
not there. You know that was okay. I was as

(27:53):
long as people were in touching me, hitting me, hurting me,
I was okay with that.

Speaker 1 (27:57):
So how how long were you in and out of
the system for like that?

Speaker 2 (28:01):
From the age of seven to the age of about fourteen,
I was in and out pretty much a fair bit.

Speaker 1 (28:05):
Okay, there was one I heard you talk about one
place when you were released from the system and you
went and you thought, oh, this is good. I'm being
put in the house and there was nine adults or
nine people living in there, and you were sleeping in
a room with two adult male pedophiles.

Speaker 2 (28:21):
That's right. So what actually happened was I ran as
soon as I got out of Direk. My dad picked
me up, and as soon as we got back to Gosford,
I'm not doing this anymore. I don't want to be
in a home and I don't want to be in
a home of violence. I'm sick of being hurt, and
I knew that it was going to continue, so I
just wanted to stop it. So I actually ran away
two docks and I went up and saw an office
and at the Mount drew a Dock's office and I said, look,
I said, I'm not trying to be a bad boy.

(28:42):
I'm not trying to run away or cause trouble. I said,
I'm scared and I'm sick of being hurt. Helped me
and he said, oh well, he rings around. He comes
back and he said, I've got a foster family for
you in Mount Drew. It. Now, what I don't know
is prior to my going there, one kid's been shot
dead in their custody. Another girl has been abused in
their care. There's two men with prior convictions in his house. Yeah,

(29:04):
kids in three bedroom house. Nine people have lived there.
It's like they're using foster kids to make make money,
lose a payment that you know, and buying her house
pretty much with all of us kids. But I get
put into this room with three adult men and me
a little boy, and it didn't take long before he
starts touching and hurting me, you know. And I stayed

(29:26):
in that house for about five or six months. Then
what happened is I'm just sick of her. And my
mum turns up drunk one day out the back, tries
to have a fight with them all and then about
a month after that, because the dogs will come in
taking me on visits with my siblings. She says, oh,
we're moving South Australia. She said, I've got a new
boyfriend who's got a job, and I want to bring
the family back together and try and be a mum.
And I'm like sold, I mean, all I want to

(29:49):
do is be my siblings. You're looking for Yeah, I'm
looking to be loved by my mum and my siblings.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
You know.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
We get to we stop at every pub all the
way to Save Australia. She's drinking and when we get there,
her boyfriend and her have a big punch on in
the caravan park. So my brother and I thirteen or fourteen,
we try to jump in and fight for my mum
ends up happening and she ends up kicking us out.
We get put on a bus back to Oxford Street
to meet my real dad in OxyS Street. I get

(30:16):
off the bus and we're starve and gary. We haven't
eaten for, you know, probably three or four days, and
I'm really hungry and I'm walking behind my dad with
my brother, and then all of a sudden, my dad
stops and he turns around and says, where the fuck
you think you're gone? He said, piss off. He said,
you can't go to your foster family. I don't want you,
you know, go away. And I remember sitting on Oxford
Street in this bus terminal and I was just sobbing,
and I was like, I don't have anywhere to go.

(30:37):
I don't have the foster family. Now, I don't you
know if everybody gave. People are hurting me. I literally
don't know what to do. And this man comes and
sit down beside me, a predator, you know. And I'm
a big, strong looking guy, but talks really softly. Are
you okay a little fella? Can I buy you something
to eat? And like, I'm so susceptible to any kind
of attention or love that I just into this man's charm.

(31:02):
But something twigged me as we're walking up Oxford Street.
We walk up these stairs. All I've got is a
little bag with a T shirt and a pair of
shorts in it. That's my life. And I'm walking up
there and I said, I'm not going to come in,
miss so I don't want to go in. And I
pulled a bag away and I started to walk and
he grabs my hand and he ends up getting the
bag off me, and then I just ran and I
ran all the way down, got to Central Station and

(31:24):
went back to my foster family, who didn't want me,
you know. So they drove me to Mount Drew a
train station, gave me five bucks, and they rang a
refuge in King's Cross called the Opposition Use Refuge. And
there was my journey about to go to kings Cross,
you know. And it was like, do you know when
I walked out that train station. I mean, I'm fourteen,
you know what a fourteen's I think we know everything.
I remember walking out that station. I thought, no one's

(31:46):
going to ever hurt me again. That's it. It's over.
No person will ever touch me, control me, or hurt
me again. Little did I know, I was walking out
of the potton into the fire. You know. I was
literally walking into our predator's paradise. The place was alittered
with him.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
Hence the name me your book.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
Yeah, paradise.

Speaker 1 (32:03):
Okay, So for thean you and look, this is a
story that people. We know it in a general sense.
Everyone hears about the kids that end up on the
streets of King King's Cross, But this is your story
on how you ended up there and the horrors that
you've seen and been involved in the lead up to that.
You get the King's Cross as Forten take us through
that journey.

Speaker 2 (32:24):
So when I first get there, like, I'm curious, So
I go into every building all the way out the
left and every building all the way out the right.
You know, I want to know what's going.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
On, the bright lights all that, the people around. So
you're thinking, okay, well.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
Yeah, the weird, the wonderful, the colorful. You know, it
was like it was crazy. But what really got me
was I met a whole lot of different kids that
were on the street just like me, and and I
didn't have to be tough, I didn't have to be handsome,
I didn't have to be anything. I could just be green.
And I fitted into this little group where we lived
in this squat. And as you've probably read it in
my book, and I'm going to try my hardest, but
I actually get really emotional when I talk about her.

(32:56):
I met a beautiful girl. Her name was Linda. Yeah,
and you know, she just like me, and I loved her.
It was my first girlfriend. I'd never had a friend.
Later girlfriend, you know what, I mean, here, I've got
this girlfriend that's just enamored with me, who was stunning,
absolutely stunning, you know, and we were staying in squats
and running around the st I mean, we're playing chasings
on the main street of King's Cross.

Speaker 1 (33:15):
So how many kids are we talking about? And what
were their stories? What were their backgrounds?

Speaker 2 (33:19):
Very similar? So we had a group of about twelve
that was in our specific group, but there was lots
and lots of kids in multiple groups around the street.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
What is it that they end up in the Cross?
What's like you were sent there? But what was it
about the Cross that attracted I think it's the system.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
I think most kids talked amongst each other and knew
that Manly town Hall and King's Cross where the go
to spots.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
Okay, because you'll find other kids in the same situation.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
In the same situation, most of them running away. They're
sick of being hit. Their parents are alcoholics or heroin
adictsal drug addicts. You know, you know, not always that
some kids are just bloody.

Speaker 1 (33:54):
Spoiler because I suppose and there would be on clothes
in different suburbs. But if you're out in a you
be on your own and you found your tribe collective.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
Yeah, and that's what it is. It's the safety in
numbers thing, you know. We're in a group together, and
so I always felt safe. And there was one guy
that was bigger than me. He was Fijian and he
was my best friend. And I just was enamored with
this man because he I mean he was fourteen two,
but he was big and strong, you know, and he
was like you ever see that cardoing with the big
dog and the little dog and he's chasing the out dog.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
Yeah, I can picture it. Describe to us when you say,
you know, we used to bed down in a squad like,
I've got a sense of I've seen those places, but
describe it to people that it's a world that's foreign
to them.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
So this one specifically was in Manning Street. It was
an old convent and it was dangerous. It had no
floor on two levels and it used to walk up
and every room had either drunks or heroin addicts or
people living in it. But there was one room at
the end that just that was the kids room, you know,
And we had like crates or set up and we
had a couple of mattresses we dragged from somewhere. I
don't know where they're there. Before I got there, we

(34:59):
used to use to get dyeed sheets to make curtains.
It was kind of like, yeah, it was spray paints
all over the wall, but it was our little spot. Yeah,
but it was quite volatile and dangerous, you know, because
there was different people would use drugs, get alcohol, and
they come and they see kids, and there was always
young pretty girls with us as well, so you know,
they sort of look at that as something a challenge

(35:19):
to them, you know, and we weren't capable of depending
ourselves really against that.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
You had one incident, you had some skinheads tell us
about that.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
Yeah, we're all sitting there one time and a group
of skinhead to come up to use in the place.
And they all walked into the room and they were
big boys, man like, they were big kind of guys
and we're like little skinny, you know, nothings. And they've
all walked in and they started talking to the girls.
Fresh mate sniffing and doing all these things, you know,
old enough to blue, you know, saying these fucking cruise
ships to us. And like, my mate, he gets up
and he's like stands up and I'm like there's about

(35:50):
eight of them, there's like one of him. And I'm like,
I stand behind in tentatively, like I'm there with you, bro,
but I'm no good to you at all, but I'm
in support.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
Well, yeah, it's always good to know someone's behind you. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
But then there was a torch, a torch light, and
I said to him, well, that's the coppers. Like one
thing I've always been got as being smart, I can
use my brains pretty well. And I said, that's the coppers.
I said, because we're kids that come here, and chet
con us every hour said they'll be up in a minute,
and they sort of looked at each other and bang,
there gone, you know. And then I wanted to go.
I wanted to get out of there, and let's get
out of.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
Here of sexual abuse of the kids in there. And yeah,
the tourists wall that we talk of in King's Cross
and different things tell us the dynamics of that environment. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
So in the daytime, there was the park half he
Troy Park, which was outside the police station, right outside
the police station, and all day long you'd see little
boys sitting in there, and all these different men and
all who become known to me over my period in
the cross, you know, and they come in and like
they're very good at make filling voids. What they did
is they find the kid and they find what it

(36:54):
is that's missing them. They need their tires pump? Do
they need you know?

Speaker 1 (36:57):
Laugh?

Speaker 2 (36:58):
Do they need Buney security home? Whatever it is? And
and they take these kids off. And the people I
used to see come to there and the war specifically
the war were some people that would blow your mind.
You know, some of the most powerful people in our country.
I'm talking about teachers, principles, lawyers, politicians, movie stars, you know.
And I won't name it all on camera obviously, but
I'm happy to share with you some of them. And

(37:19):
it's it's like bizarre. And some of those people, I mean,
I gave evidence of the both commissions and I named
these people, but you know, they sealed our files, which
I don't understand.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
And so when they these people approach, whether the high
profile or and positions of responsibility or anyone, when they're
approaching the kids, they're offering them money for sex or whatever.
That could be as simple as a feed. I'll take
you for take you for a feed.

Speaker 2 (37:44):
Yeah, that's right, that's what they do. They come in,
they go, how are you doing? You know, like the
first one I met, I was playing a pinball machine
and he come up beside it and he goes, oh,
you win a mate. I said, you know, like a
little kid pomatize. Oh yeah, I'm doing really good. Let
me have a go with you. Yah yeah, yea yeah
we're playing. And then oh would you like something to eat?
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm going to have something to eat.
And then you know, we in the back. He said,
how nothing happens the first time, if you've read that

(38:05):
in my book, But what actually happens is as a
prelude to the biker thing that happened. There was this
big fight on the street to the cross and there
was all these bikers and dormant just punching on. There
was women. He was the most violent thing I ever seen,
and being a kid like I ran to the front
of the crowd. But the crowd around me got so
big that I kept getting pushed in, pushed into this crowd,
and I was about two am in the morning. A

(38:26):
big hand comes through and literally pulls me out of
the crowd and he says, get the fuck out of
the cross, bro, this is no place for kids. And
a woman screaming at me as well, and I'm like,
and then the only place I knew to go Gary
was the squad. But the squad was right down the
back of the cross in this back lane had to
go a f it was like dark, it was sketchy.
I was never going there on my own, And so
the only place I knew to go was the pedophiles home, right,

(38:47):
you know. And that so that's the first sort of
introduction for me to a predator. Whereas he says to me, oh,
I know, and he was he was working for a
guy and I won't say his lane, but a bit
some big pushes in the cross, you know. And so
he's saying, I can look after you, I can give
you pot, I can give your money, you know, and
all this sort of stuff. And it doesn't come on
to me straight away.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
You know.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
It's like I can have all my friends there, like
it's like, what more do I want? But it comes
to the cost, and that that's what the cost was.
And they let your friends hang in there, and yeah,
that's right, and give them pot and you know, and
so I'm suddenly popular because I've got pot to give
out and.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
Like it's you know, and when does the abuse start
or when does it?

Speaker 2 (39:24):
Well, it starts there first, but I and I'm living
with a girlfriend. The thing about it is all our
girls know what's happening. It's like just how it works,
what your survival. But where the real predatory stuff starts
for me is I got sick of this guy and
I end up moving out of there. And first one
is I meet this guy at the park named Ken

(39:45):
Foggerty and who I've had convicted and charged. He says
to me, I'll give you money, and he raped me.
It didn't turn out the way it should have, you know,
like he actually abused me quite savagely. And then one
day I'm sit in the park with my girl and
my friends, and these two little school girls walk in
the park. One's probably about ten, maybe eleven or twelve,

(40:06):
I don't know. They're very young, very very young. I'm
not good at identifying danger for myself, but instantly I thought, no, no, no,
I've got to get these girls out of here. So
I run over and there's this guy comes walking over
and anyway he comes over. He says, I'm a counselor
blah blah blah, And I said, hell you are mate,
You're not taking them kids anywhere, you know. And I'm
sort of standing up and I I've got twenty other
kids behind me. It makes me kind of more bravee,

(40:26):
you know. So that gives me a little bit of
Dutch courage. And they like, I'm spruce and offer. Then
he says, I'm a counselor. And the little people are
peeling away as he's talking because he's very articulate and
he's he as a counselor. He was in a refuge
called the Homeless Childrens Association. Now this refuge was founded
by a children's magistrate, Simon Davies, the guy the other
guy had convicted. So what happens is we agree that

(40:48):
we'll go to the refuge with him. Well, now I'm
letting these kids go anywhere with him on my own,
So it would be and a possive about twenty kids
follow him all the way through the cross all the
way down to Liverpool Street.

Speaker 1 (40:58):
Of this of these kids talking, kids, whether we we're talking.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
From twelve year old up to eighteen year olds, you know,
it's quite a kid yeah, old kids.

Speaker 1 (41:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
And we get to this refuge, and that's Simon Davies.
And I walk in and there's this guy with the
whack eye looking all over the place, and he sits
there and he goes, oh, you're a Glen, are you?
He said, Oh, you're incredible. Look at the way all
the other kids follow you. And then he's just so
good at pumping my tethering.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
Yeah, compliments for the life that you've had, you'd be
taking all the compliments he can get.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
Yeah, of course. And the other thing that he said
to me was he said, let me tell you your story.
He said, I'd say that your mum and dad are
probably alcoholics or addicts. You've probably spent most of your
time in institution. Came more. Amazing, Yeah, amazing, man, How
does he know all this about me?

Speaker 1 (41:41):
You know?

Speaker 2 (41:41):
And it's because he's met a hundred other Glens, you know.
And but what ends up happening is about a week
after we move into this refuge with all so the
part that's always carry good with me is that I
go back to the kids and I say, oh, there's
a refuge we can stay in. We'll have to drink,
we can take drugs, we can have our girlfriend sleep
in the same bed. The only rule is no vile,
you know, and it's riding King's Grass.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
And thinking you've found paradise.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
Paradise. Yeah, so we move in there. What I don't
know is that the five men working there are all pedophiles.
It's an actual ring of predators who have targeted children,
you know. And I can say this because I've had
four of them convicted, you know. So about a week
into my stay there, I'm sitting in the office and
he says, I've got a bottle of scotch you want
to drink, And I'm like, you don't let me drink alcohol.

(42:27):
Oh yeah, I'll do that. I've never been drunk, right,
but I'll do that. So I'm drinking scotch. And then
this other guy, who I've a convicted, Paul Jones, he
walks in and he goes, I've got these pillows. They're
called mandies. If you want one, So what do they do?

Speaker 1 (42:38):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (42:39):
Yeah, you love it makes your fun bang. I take
that too. I'm sitting there playing guitar. The next thing
I know is I wake up in the morning. I'm
semi naked, and I'm getting snippets of the night and
I'm like fucking's happened again, you know, Like that's what
I'm going through. And I literally walk out of the
refuge and I walk up to Grant Morris, who I've
also convicted, and I said, I've been raped and he

(43:00):
goes by who Glen Bye? Who? And I tell him
and then his face goes lily white and he goes,
I'll meet you tonight at the Cloan I think it
was called the Clown your Cafe. Come and talk to
me and we'll sort this out. And I'm like, okay.
And then I go up to the cross and I
sit down with my girlfriend and I heer'sally talking about her.
She sits on my lap. She puts her nase on
me all the time, and she used to say, you
know the song Vincent Starry Starry Night. She's always sending

(43:22):
that something to me and she's yeah, and she used
to put her nase on and sing this song and
she used to go, the world doesn't know you like
I know you, Glenn. You're such a beautiful person, you know.
And she tall that to me all the time, and
she said, but I know something's not right, what's going on?
And I was too scared to tell her you know,
like I didn't want to say what's happened, so I
go to this. I also run into Annie Crow, who's
the woman who also works at the refuge, and I

(43:43):
tell her. When I arrived at the cafe, Grant Morris,
Simon Davies were all at the cafe and I sit
down with him, and then Grant jumped and he goes
every child he has an adult that looks after him.
That's how King's Cross works. You know, you're over reacting,
you know, like do you want to leave refuge and
all your mates go? You know, like it's like suddenly
it's like, oh, what have I done wrong? Have I

(44:04):
done something wrong?

Speaker 1 (44:05):
You know?

Speaker 2 (44:05):
What they taught me was that my body was a commodity,
and I started to learn that I be can't. I
started taking drugs and to block out what's going on,
and then the money. I'm spreading it out with my
friends because I'm a people pleaser and I want to
please everyone, so you know, I've got all these things
going on.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
It's a horrible situation, but you can see how it's
very scripted in the way that they drag and drag
you in. They find find the kids, and then manipulate
the situation.

Speaker 2 (44:33):
Yeah, that's right. And I mean like they give you
all this stuff and then they were going to take
it all away. And plus the police are their friends.
Everyone knew what was happening in this place, you know.
And in nine and eighty three January, another guy who
runs a refuge comes to the refuge and he says
two he calls in the judge and a general, right,

(44:55):
and who run the refuge, And he says, Simon Davis's
abusing your children. They call Simon Davies in and they
say you can no longer be the CEO, or you
can no longer reside at four two nine. But they
never report the crime. They never come to the refuge,
nor do they check if he lives at the refuge.
And he resides there for another eight months with the
other four men who are abusing us kids.

Speaker 1 (45:15):
It's got that stink of the church, isn't it like
protecting protecting their reputation because a lot of them had
a good reputation. Yeah, well so called good reputation, and
that's what they were doing. Hey, guys, it's Gary Jubilan here.
Want they get more out of I catch killers, then
you should head over to our new video feed on
Spotify where you can watch every episode of VI Catch Killers.

(45:40):
Just search for I Catch Killers video in your Spotify
app and start watching today. With that environment, your story
is that your story very typical for other kids, the
way they get caught up in it. Were the girls
abused as well?

Speaker 2 (45:55):
Or now where the girls were and all the boys were,
or the girls were in a different way. They were
going out at some point, and they have in somewhere
in strip clubs, some when in become into prostitution. But yeah,
I just so what happened in August? I come home
with a couple of kids and two of the other
people that work in the refuge a standing there and

(46:15):
they say the refuge is being closed. And they said
we can no longer stay here. And I said, yous
can go. We're not fucking out anywhere. And I just
stopped my footing, you know, so us kids stay in
this refuge. I contacted a journalist who came and put
us on the front page of the paper. We're on
the paper, you know, like it's I remember it's August,
the first issue in the Telegraph in August of nine
and eighty three. So what happened is about two weeks

(46:39):
after our stay there, the police come in the morning,
about six o'clock and arrest is like they come for everywhere,
you know, and they take us all off to Bajura.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
We'll just break this down so I make sure with
the story. Yeah, yeah, the refugees supposedly shut down that
you guys, we're not leaving. Yeah, cops have turned up.
The next day. You get charge with whatever charge was
placed on you.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
The rest all of us, every one of thems got
some kind of warrant for wanted for something in the past.
I'm literally the only one that didn't because I didn't
do crimes. So I get let out. But what happens
is I start speaking about our abuse. This is where
I start talking to police. I start saying, this is
what's going on. But what's happening is and this is
a big part of the story that people don't understanding.

(47:20):
King Cross. People were picking up kids at the wall,
at the park and places like this. They were taking
them to established in the Cross. They're being filmed. So
what happened is the people that are filming it are
now compromising these people who are coming in and touching
these children right, So that's kind of how it works.
So what ends up happening is I start speaking, I
get out, and then the next time I'm sitting in

(47:41):
the park with one another girl and a friend, and
these two police walk over to me and they said
that to him, and they grabbed me and they charged
me with a Sultan robbery. So I get put into
minda another institution for a crime I didn't do. And
then in December they take me to court into Bajura.
They dismissed the charge, but they play to be into
the custody of my primary abuser, Simon Davies in Carton

(48:04):
Crescent in Summer Hill.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
Run just break that down again, so you would charge
your bar refuse you're putting the custody. The charges would
drop when the hearing actually took place. But you were
then sent from the court. And how old are we
at this stage?

Speaker 2 (48:21):
So now about sixteen?

Speaker 1 (48:22):
Okay? From the court? Ye to live with Simon Davies,
the person that you've been saying has been abusing that's right, yeah,
to live with him.

Speaker 2 (48:30):
And the same court where that person was made aware
in the beginning of eighty three of him abusing me,
where he was systematically removed supposedly as a CEO and
able to live at the.

Speaker 1 (48:41):
Refuge, Right, how did that work out? Did you go there?
Or just I did?

Speaker 2 (48:45):
And so I actually don't think I had to, but
I just because I was such so kid at like
the systems.

Speaker 1 (48:52):
Life.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
Yeah, that's right. So I'm doing what I believe I'm
supposed to do. But after about two weeks of sleeping
in his bed with him in his room in his
parents home, his sister comes up to me one day
and he says, Glenn, you should not be sleeping in
that bedroom with that with Simon. What is going on here?
She confront her parents. So the parents end up kicking
us out or kicking me out, and he puts me
into a flat and he leaves me in this place

(49:16):
with this guy that runs it, and he says, I'll
leave you here for the night, and he said I'll
be back tomorrow. He didn't come back for two weeks.
He just left me there, and then I remember sitting
there waiting for that knock knock, knock knock, and he said,
come on, mate, your dad's not coming. I told him
he was my dad. Your dad's not coming back, mate,
And he opened up and kicks me out. And that's
where I, you know, I start to realize what's happening.

(49:37):
But the problem is, and this is the part of
my shore I don't like sharing. I'm now a heroin
addict and the only way I know how to survive
his prostitution, right, And that's what's happened.

Speaker 1 (49:46):
So and well, what works in the favor of the
predators that's trying to get you addicted, and so you'll
do anything for the addictions you've been dragged into. That
and that that was a cycle in the Cross st
that's your story, but that's a sort of generic tale
on how kids end up in the cross getting abused

(50:07):
and getting addicted addicted to drugs.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
I saw so many kids, Gary, and I can name
so many of them that would arrive these beautiful, big,
smiling kids. The next thing you see them in a club,
stripping or whatever. You know, a year later, they've overdose, suicided,
being murdered, or they're just a cringe of who they
were walking up and down on the street of William
Street's now trying to work for themselves because they're no
longer a commodity to the club, you know, because they

(50:31):
don't look the good anymore.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
What about the policing the and I want to talk
in part two about you giving evidence at the Royal Commission,
So just talking in general sense that, yeah, the policing
in King's Cross maybe, well, no, I'm not knowing if
I know there's good cops and I know there's bad cops,
and they were certainly identified in the Royal Commission where
flush some people out. But even that in the world

(50:56):
of policing is yeah, it's one thing. Taking the dollar,
that's another thing. If you're turning a blind eye to
kids being sexually abused. What's your take on that environment.

Speaker 2 (51:07):
So what the police were doing was they would if
I went into the police and said this is what's
happened to me, they would then go to the pedophile
and say this is our roles. You give us ten
thousand or we have you charged, and then what would
happen was they'd pay, so they'd have them in the
pocket and often they come back to us, or not
come back to us at all and lock us up
or for a fictitious crime, which is what kind of happened.

(51:28):
You know, the police were may I cannot emphasize enough
the evilness of the police at King's Cross and I
won't name them all, but there were so many. I mean,
one of them at Courting Glee you're probably aready, grabbed
me by my throat and pushed me up against the
wall and he said, if I hear any more complaints
from you, he said, you'll be floating in the river.
They used to call me miss dron Budsmen. And the
funny thing about it was someone on my behalf Rada,

(51:51):
led us the ONM Budsman about police beating me up
really savagely. One time. I didn't even do it, but
they thought that I had, so every time they see
me that go yere, he is miss dron Budsmen. And
these were some of the most dangerous. Like back then,
I was a little cocky. I didn't know what I
know now, and that they were dangerous. These police were
very dangerous. And there's nothing worse than you know, they
have the power to do whatever they want. You know,

(52:12):
you can't do anything about it.

Speaker 1 (52:14):
Well, it's power that can be abused, and this is
your your version of it. I don't think I'm knowing.
It must have been some good cops in there that
push it back against that type of thing. If that
because I'm just trying to think all the cops I know,
if I can't even comprehend one that would buy into that.

(52:34):
But I'm not doubting what you've said. And there was
a history of it, and I suppose not just cops.
People knew what was going on. There was businessmen. There
was all sorts of people and turned in a blind
eye because the money was being made and let's not
kill the cash cow.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
Yeah, that's right, And because that's what it was about,
the money. The children of the Cross were the commodity.
They were the commodity, you know what I mean. And
then they had the dealers that were also being protected
by police. I'm telling you it happened, and you are right,
there is a handful of good coppers in there. I
had the police if someone got murdered in across. I
don't know the whole story, but they rested me on it.
And this other copy that walked in and he goes,

(53:12):
I know this kid, he hasn't got a violent bone
in his body, you know, And they ended up letting
me go. So there was those that did have empathy.
And there's others who have brought me food at different times.
What about the gangsters, the bikes and all that. What
was their role in this, because they must have known
it was going on. Did they pull anyone in the
line or no? The bikers were okay. The bikers are

(53:34):
actually quite good with kids. They really were. And I
mean although WA used to sell for the bikers at
a very young age. You probably read that in my book.
I was selling I won't say what club, but I
was selling speed for the bikers. They were all very
good to me and protected me that way. In fact,
one of the stories you're probably read in my book
was I was walking down the street, yeah, and this
guy biker walks up to me and he goes grab
me by my ear, like literally had my ear and

(53:54):
dragged me down to the porkies. And the guy was
being wheeled out on a gurney and he pulls the
blanket up. Ambler's drivers are horrified and they just step
back because he's a big boy, right, And he goes,
see that you want to hit? He said, I'll give
you a hit, guaranteed to put John on it every time,
you know, Like he was trying to help, but it
didn't work. Once I was in I was in.

Speaker 1 (54:13):
And what about the working girls as well, because you
got you got some people that were sort of doing
their best to keep an eye out for the kids.

Speaker 2 (54:22):
Yeah, the ones that looked after me, the mayor, for
the people you at least expect. They were likers, street strippers, prostitutes,
and heroin addicts. They like, you know, they that was
log eat dog in some parts of the world. But
when it comes to kids, they did protect us. They looked.
I mean, they see me. For Sally Anne, she used
to give me around all the time regards She's say,
don't you buy back and arroon? So I don't want
to got heron's gun buy something. The food, I'll take it,

(54:43):
she said. She take me to this place called the
Asteria or the Cosmopolitan.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
Sally Ane huckscept talking there, I thought.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
She was like, I want to be honest, when she
started telling me all about what's going on the cross
as a very young age, I'm just saying to eat
my food, yes, Sally, you know, like yeah, okay, Sally,
you know it's like it's just it's just like I
think she you know, we got these tin fall hats
these days. That's what Sally kind of I thought when
I first met her, because the way she talked about
and you'd be careful of this person, you be careful
of this. But she was really coming from a loving place,

(55:11):
you know, and she's not alone. There was many of them,
ros Sam, There's so many street workers who would see
a little boy like me and it was almost like
they'd have dop me, you know. It was like have
you eaten today, little fellow?

Speaker 1 (55:22):
You know?

Speaker 2 (55:23):
It comes sleep on my lounge, you know, and they'd
all look after me. But at the same time they
were still supporting their own heroin habits.

Speaker 1 (55:29):
It's so fucked up, isn't it. The people, the people
that you would think would you'd be at risk from,
they're the ones that were protecting you, and that they
were they should be protecting you. You were at risk from. Yeah,
that's right. The system. Yeah, just before we move on
the Cross these days, have you got the sense of its?
Has it changed?

Speaker 2 (55:47):
Absolutely? I mean I go on the Cross every week
be as you know, because I work on the streets
now and it's completely changed. It's different, completely different dynamic,
the ambience, the whole feel of the Cross is different.
There's still a flicker of it and there's still the
shooting gallery in kirktain Raid, and there's a couple of
strip clubs. But for the most I mean, you've got
to be a billionairely there these days made it.

Speaker 1 (56:08):
Demographics of I get that that sense, Well, we might
we might take a break for part one. I'll further
listener warning, you think Glenn's life couldn't get much worse
at this stage why he's described, but we're going to
talk about it. And there were things that rock you,

(56:29):
rock you to the core, but there's a positive, so
we're better dangle that carrot at the end. You're hearing
Glenn talk and if anyone should be better and broken
that Glenn. But that's not the sense I'm getting. So
we're going to take Glenn even deeper into the troubles
that he's experienced in his life, but we'll also cover
off on how he turned his life around. The good

(56:50):
work you're doing there.

Speaker 2 (56:52):
Awesome cheers