September 22, 2025 • 56 mins
For seven years, Kate DeAraugo did whatever she could to get her next hit of ice. She lived in a drug house with 10 other addicts, was arrested and charged several times, stripped and held in police cells, and was once stabbed by a machete-wielding man.
She was faced with a terrifying choice, death or detox. Kate shares how she broke her 20 year addiction, turned her life around and her advice for supporting people in need.
Listen to Kate's podcast Why Do I Feel This Way? here.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.
Detective see a side of life the average person has
never exposed her I spent thirty four years as a cop.
For twenty five of those years, I was catching killers.
That's what I did for a living. I was a
homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,
I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.
(00:23):
The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories
from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw
and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some
of the content and language might be confronting. That's because
no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.
Join me now as I take you into this world.
(00:46):
In part two of my chat with Kate Derouge, we
talk about how low her life got, what it was
like living in a drug den with ten other people,
being attacked by a former partner in a drug fueled
rage with a machete, her arrests, and the public humiliation
that came with that, along with the threat of going
to jail for a long time now, the light bulb
(01:07):
moment in Kate's life was when she saw herself in
the mirror and was disgusted by what she had become.
How she turned the life around and now as a
mother of two beautiful children, the message she would be
giving to them so they can learn from her mistakes.
It was an emotional but inspiring talk and I came
away from it with a deeper understanding of how close
(01:28):
all of us are to destroying our lives with poor choices.
Have a listen to what Kate said. Kate Derouge, welcome
back to Part two of I Catch Killers.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Thank You. It's it was a big first part nearly there.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
It was a big first part where it's sort of
on a bit of a nosedive at this stage, but
we're going to bring leave it back and bring you up.
In part one, we talked about your highs and your lowers,
your highs with your success from Australian Idol and your
career in music that you went on too from there,
But we also talked about starting to use drugs and
(02:04):
how that got hold of you and then the spiral
when you started using ice and I think you were
addicted for seven years on that. I was interested that
I didn't realize that your parents had pulled you away
from it when your career crashed and were trying to
get you on the straight and narrow, and you're obviously
committed to it. But then you went to Mariuchidor for
(02:28):
a radio gig for a couple of months, and you
discovered the life again by the sounds of.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
It, Well, I wouldn't say I discovered the life. I
was just trying to fool myself, you know what I mean.
I was still hanging onto this concept that I had
a career left and using something, whether it be drugs
or alcohol. And look and when I've never really identified
as an alcoholic, but when I drank, I drank to access,
(02:55):
you know what I mean. I would drink vodka for
breakfast out of a Gatorade bottle, So you know, I
didn't do anything in a healthy way. But yeah, I
think I went to this job in Rucchie do Or
to try to prove to everybody that I was okay
and that I could look after myself and that they
were overreacting, and it just was a disaster.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
There's a quote in again one of the interviews that
you've done, and I'll just read it out and we'll
discussed that that around this period as well, and truly
in the grips of method addictions. So this is when
you've started using ice. All I wanted was for everyone
to fuck off out of my face so I could
use And it hurts my heart to say that I
(03:35):
lost all hope, want or care to be any version
of the Kate everybody knew. So this is after maroochi
d'Or you've lost your way again. And I think you
said you were traveling with someone and he had a
ice pipe, and you thought why not.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Well, it was as simple as you know, and I
could sniff out drugs from a mile away, and I
jumped in a car, which is reckless in itself. You know,
I'm in a town I don't know, and in the
middle of the night, I jump in a car with
a person I don't know, madness, and I could tell
that he was on something, and I just said, I
don't know what you have, but I didn't care, but
you need to give me some And that was it,
(04:16):
and that was I you know again, back to that
thing of I met this man and he became my world,
and I think I didn't leave his side for the
next two three years. We just used and traveled around
Australia together and it just all seemed honky dory to me.
But it was the beginning. And as I said, in
(04:36):
the beginning, like everybody was like, I've seen a bit
of a changing cake. She's not, I guess because I
wasn't shit faced drunk, you know, on the floor by
ten o'clock in the morning. People saw an improvement, you know.
I was out doing things and being in the world
and I'd answer the phone and stuff like that. But
it all really went to hell when I got caught
(04:57):
using ice and which is where that quote came from,
when I got driving under the influence.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yeah, talk us through, talk us through that.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
So my last ditch effort at regaining some kind of
career in my deluded state of mind is I tried
to release a song and I did and it was
all going really well. And my manager had said to
me before we took, you know, on that mission, he said,
I'll do this with you one more time, but do
not lie to me. I think he used some more
choice words than that, but he said, do not lie
to me. No drugs, no, no, blah blah blah. And I said, yeah, no,
(05:29):
where is good I'm fine, and look, I'd lost an
incredible amount of weight by They're not gonna lie. I
looked good, looked good. I was skinny, and I was
looking the part. And people were like, yes, Kate, you
look amazing. You know, people will start your back. People
were starting to take me more seriously, which was just
fueling my madness. I was like, yeah, this ice thing,
it's working for me. And I was in the media again,
(05:52):
you know, I was on the big radio shows again.
I was doing it, but I was using like a
mad woman in the background. And you know, my mum
and I had had driven to Sydney. I was going
to do a film clip and do all that kind
of stuff. And I had to drop her off at
the airport. And it was the day after the Mardi Gras,
and I was like, oh, after the airport, I'll just
(06:13):
have a bit of a look at you know, what's
going on the streets of Sydney. It's always a bit interesting.
And I come around the bend and there was a
booze bus and I drove in there. I thought, you, beauty,
haven't been drinking. This won't be a problem. And it
was at the beginning of when you know, drug testing,
and I didn't even think about it, and I passed
my breath test and I went through. He said, oh,
if you could just pull in here, you know, we're
(06:33):
doing random rug drug tests. And my heart sank and
that was me done, so you know, and I remember
walking into the big the bus but the second test
or whatever it was, and this copper looked at me
and he just said, oh you, he said you. He said,
I had another one of your kind in here the
other day. And you know he was really unkind about it. Yeah,
(06:56):
he was really unkind about it. And yeah that was
the end. That was the end of the lot.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Okay. So that that hit the media as it was
always always going to do, Yes, I would imagine there'd
be shame and every other emotion that comes from that.
Talk us through that. What that did to you at
the time.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yes, of course. So the headline came out, you know,
Kate Deruze choose Ice across everything, and you know, I
lost whatever slither of respect within the industry and career
that I thought I had left in that headline, Like
that was it. I lost everything to get about it,
and that was it. I And yes, there was a
(07:37):
lot of shame and a lot of embarrassment and all
of those feelings. But I masked that with anger and
it just sent and I didn't know how to process that.
I didn't know what to do with it. And I
so instead of going, wow, that's a pretty big rock
bottom and to the most of the you know, normal people,
that would have been enough, But that was the ticket.
I guess that my disease and my addiction needed to
(07:59):
go right. All think I'm a junkie anyway now, So
I'm gonna I'm just going to take off here and
I'm going to show you. I'm going to show you
what it's really like. And I guess it just gave
me the permission to use the way that I'd been
wanting to use for years, which was with no. I
didn't need to hide it anymore, you know, it was
just go Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
I would imagine it would have been a difficult conversation
that you had with family or and people close to
you when it became public that you're using ice. And
just the way you describe that headline so much connotation.
There's anyone that's touched ice is just a lost cause. Yeah,
this is just a life spirally in out of control.
It might be painful, but the conversations you had with
(08:40):
your parents then, Oh.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Look, my parents knew. I can't remember if they knew
it was ice, but they knew. They knew I wasn't well.
I mean, hence why my mom came with me to Sydney.
And my mom bless her and rest her soul, and
she I wouldn't be here without her, you know. She
chased me around this tree, and my siblings chased me
(09:02):
around this countryside for years trying to save my life.
And I'd be nowhere if I didn't have them in
my corner. But they knew I wasn't well. I don't
think they knew what degree it had got to. Yeah,
but I wasn't up for conversations by that point, you know,
I wasn't really I wasn't really invested in talking. I
didn't want to talk about it. As I said before,
(09:23):
I didn't want to talk about it. I wasn't interested
in changing. And I was gone.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
So you went to court. What was the lifestyle you
were living at that stage? Like, I got the fact
that you were carving your way back into a career,
and yeah, writing and doing some things and filming, so
it was heading in the right direction. That's been taken
away from you. What sort of life were you living after? That?
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Got pretty bad pretty quick, you know. I went from
that life or a bit of that life again, to
living in shooting galleries, and you know, wherever I could
find a bed, I just would be there. Wherever that
wherever the drugs were, and wherever they took me and
my you know, as I said, my consequential thinking was
(10:10):
gone and I was in I found myself in a
lot of dangerous places, with a lot of dangerous people,
doing a lot of dangerous things really really quickly. And
I think that's what that drug does, quicker than anything else.
Because it's all good and well. When you've got the
money and you can afford it, and you know, you
pay for it, and the dealer will give you the
it's not a worry. But as soon as and I've
(10:30):
done there's no drugs I haven't tried, right, there's none.
I've done them all, But I've never felt the desperation
and drive to need to continue to use a drug
like methamphetamines. Never. It just possesses you like nothing I
could explain to anybody. Once it's in you. Oh and
and so I very quickly would just do whatever I
(10:53):
needed to do to get what I needed to get,
and there were no boundaries to that. Use your mass,
so use your imagine, yes, to work out what they
look play.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yeah, and look, I've been to the drug dens and
difference of stuff where a lot of people are using
or abandoned buildings and all sorts of things. I was
a hard assed homicide cop and I'd walk into those places.
I'd be terrified. It was just it was like something
out of a horror movie some of the places that
I saw. And you see the people that have been
(11:23):
using ice, and there was this glazed look. There was
no soul behind the eyes. It was just an anything
could happen. So, you know, you're a female, vulnerable female
in that stage, addicted to it. I can only imagine
the places that you found you found yourself in.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Yeah, and the fear like and I'm a pretty nervous person,
you know, as the girl that sits here today. But
I had no fear and I was and my eyes
were black, you know what I mean. There was no
there's nothing behind here. And it still hurts me to
hear you know, it still makes me emotional and makes me,
you know, in my throat to say those things, because
(12:00):
that person was was fucked and there's no other word
for it, and excuse my language, but I was just
I was gone. And I still sit here today realizing
how lucky I am to have got out, because not
many people once they get lost in that world, it's
not easy to make it back.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Well, very very few come out, but you're showing that
it's possible, and I think that that's an important message.
But also the important message is how low that life
can can stoop when you're addicted to a drug like ice.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
I think there's no there is no end to the low,
like there will always be a lower low, and just
when you think you couldn't possibly do any worse, you will.
And I think the true rock bottom in that world
is when you're in a box, and that's where it ends. Sadly.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Yeah, well, you had a couple of other other things
that happened you. You got arrested again with a few times,
same offense and also weapons charges. And again I know
that lifestyle, there's always knives or things around with people
that are living or trying to protect their ice or
(13:09):
get their ice. There's always stuff like that, the chargers.
What were the circumstances with your arrests there? That was
that was down in Victoria.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Yeah, so I got banned from a couple of towns
in Victoria along that post part of my bail conditions.
Shepherd and Shepanin was the town that changed my life fundamentally.
I think a lot of stuff happened when I lived there,
and I you know, that's when domestic violence and all
that kind of stuff really came into my world.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Well, I want to talk about you being stabbed with
a machete, but.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
We'll get Oh yep, now we can get to that.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
We'll get the back. We're just working through the list.
At this start, I should have laughed.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
It's not funny.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
It's not funny. It's not funny. And I promise, I promise,
we give you a ladder to crawl your way out
of here. But okay, we'll talk the next couple of arrests.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yeah, so I did. I got a rest a few times,
and look they were always for driving under the influence,
you know, got lost my license a few times and
then drove a few times whilst had I didn't have
my license got caught, the weapons was possibly was getting
a bit more serious, and you know when I started
getting correction orders and all that kind of stuff, and
you know, I'm really lucky. I remember, you know, being
(14:21):
in the cells and being stripped and all of that
fun stuff that happens. But yeah, there was I couldn't
tell you. I can't remember how many there were, but
there were enough.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
It's daunting, isn't it, Like when you cut your freedom's
being taken away from you. It's not the world that
you've grown up to and have an expectation you're going
to win there. But and you had a threat of
a fairly lengthy custodial sentence hanging over your head too,
so that must have been played on your mind.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
I did, and look, I remember, and you know it's
not funny. Again. I shouldn't laugh, you know, I remember
because I was hanging around with some pretty big criminals
by that point, people doing really bad things and her people,
and like a lot of crime that is so far
from the world that I grew up in or anything
that I could relate to, you know what I mean.
And I look at those guys but now and feel
(15:10):
sad for them. Because at the end of the day,
they were just really sick people like I was, with
a hell of a lot less resources and love in
their life to help them get better. But yeah, like
I remember everybody, when anybody ever got locked up and
come out of the cells, it was like, where's your tape?
Give me your tape, you know, because everyone always thought
everyone was going to rat on one another and tell
each other off or whatever. And I remember the first
(15:31):
time that I got locked up in the cells and
I had to sit there and the detective and go
through it all. And they did the tape and I
just sat and I cried, and I and I you know,
I was so busy running like this big gangster that
I thought that I'd become this big, bad ass gangster.
And I think and I was all and I was
all back, and I sat in this tape and just
cried for three hours, you know what I mean, just
sobbed like a baby and wanted my mum and begged
(15:53):
them to let me go so I didn't have to
front cod. I think I said something like, please, you
can't let me go to court in the morning. It'll
ruin my career. Like I didn't have a career by
that point. But you know, I'm still holding on to
this thing, and I knew that I couldn't really talk
about anything that I wanted to talk. I remember just
wanting to tell this detective everything because I was just
so sad and I just had this moment of vulnerability
(16:15):
and I couldn't because I knew the people waiting out
in the front of me would want my tape.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
And yeah, you're vulnerable there, and what we're talking about
there is someone that gets locked up. Well, the first
off of that, cops give where did you get your
drugs from? You give up the dealer and all that,
and then yeah, you're not hanging around with the nicest
people at this stage and you start talking and there's consequences.
So you absolutely delve right into this. It's a bit
(16:40):
of a different world than the Australian idol, isn't.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
It slightly different ends of the scales. Yeah, and it
was an eye opener, but again, it just was this
and I remember thinking a few times like how am I?
How was this my life? But it was and I
didn't know how to fix it.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Did you look at like other people from the people
you contemporary? So the ones that you were playing music with.
And yeah, members of young divas when their careers are
going from strength to strength, did you sometimes sit there
and go, I used to sing with them in your
own yeah, in your own mind.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah, yeah, well people, but you know what, people people
knew that the circles that I was running, and people
knew who I was. People knew where I came from,
and they used to some people used to find it
fascinating and and I wore it as a bit of
a badge embarrassingly for a little while.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Yeah, I wondered whether that carried anything in that. But yeah,
you're in all these people with their failed lives, and
you would have had a story. I used to be something.
This was who I.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Still think, and I am somebody in a way, you know.
But I'm sitting in the same rooms with all of
these people think and I'm still somebody of some importance,
and you know, I again, that just is a representation
of how deluded I was at that time. And I did,
you know. I would see the girls have their successes
in the media or something. You'd catch my eye in
a magazine or on Facebook or whatever it was, and
(18:03):
it hurt. But I would just bury that in the
backpack with all the other shit that I was trying
to avoid.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Yeah, and for your second door, your further arrests the
media attention again, and at that point in time, the public,
I would suggest to just writing your offers are there's
no hope for this person?
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Nah? She I think I think the last time, I
think I was looking at fifteen years, which I don't
think I ever was, but that's what the media said
I was. That was the headline. My poor grandma, the
sweetest person you've ever known in your life, rang up
and said, now, Darling, I'm going to come to court.
I'm going to put on a nice dress and tell
them that you're a nice girl. You know. I was
just I was just really yeah. I was deep in
(18:45):
it by that point, and I luckily didn't end up
in jail. I had a very good lawyer, and I
did my directions and my CCO, my community corrections order,
and completed that a couple of years later. But it
wasn't long after that that court case that things changed.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
The situation where you were attacked with a man in
your life and a drug fueled rage with a machete
doesn't sound very nice. Are you kind enough to tell
us what happened there.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Yeah, Look, I met my Look, I've been addicted to
all kinds of things, and love is no different. And
I was a crazy love addict, and you know, I
would fall in love instantly with the most toxic of humans.
And you know, I've done that a lot over the years,
and he was no different. And I met him in
(19:38):
a really dark moment. And I remember he walked into
this house I was in. I was really strung out
and I had no money and no drugs, and he
walked in and essentially pulled me out of his house
and we just became joined at the hip then and there,
and I just thought he was the most amazing thing ever.
And as those relationships do, and it's very common in
that that world, like there's so much violence, and that
(20:03):
relationship became no different. And he was a very violent
and angry man, and you know that became a part
of my story. But in the madness of it all,
you know, domestic violence is very complicated. And I was
so addicted to him and the way he made me
feel in so many ways that you know, I stayed
for a really long time. Yes, he did stab me
(20:26):
with a machete in my left hip one day. That
was a time.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Did you go to the hospital with that or go
to the police or were the place called?
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Or I had to go to the hospital. And obviously
on the way too that he drove me to the hospital.
We had to come up with a story that was
you know, I.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Can imagine you two creative genius as a story you
came up with that would be, I see.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
I fell on a piece of tin on a job site,
I think was the story. And they knew that that
wasn't true, and I think they sent him away to
go take a picture of the piece it in and
he went and threw away the machete, and you know,
and that was that was the end of that. And
they asked me if I needed help, and I said, no,
what You've been ridiculous and got out the next day
(21:12):
and carried on.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Look, you look back at the life, and I know
we're laughing at certain aspects of it, and I honestly
think that's some ways you've got to deal with it
in process that you've got to look at and go
this was just chaos because you were living and I
think the low point in your life was living in
a drug house with ten other people, and I'm imagining
(21:34):
they're not fine, upstanding citizens. They would have been ten
other people chasing the hit like you were chasing.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
They certainly weren't the best versions of themselves.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
No, that must have been. Yeah, just chaotic and just yeah.
I look at places like that and think, how does
anyone survive in that sort of place?
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Oh, look, it's this. You won't find us out a
more pathetic space to be. And there's just people that
are total prisoners to themselves. Yeah, and no, again, as
I said, and look, those people that I was spending
in that time again didn't have the love and the
resources that I had available to me. And I'm eternally
(22:15):
grateful for that. And I'm not saying that that made it,
you know, any different for me to get it was
just as hard for me to get clean. But they
didn't have a mum necessarily, some did, but not all
of them didn't necessarily have a mum chasing them around
the countryside trying to get them help.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
But I think something like that might be the difference
with you coming out and surviving it with you had
some people that just didn't give up on you, like
everyone else has just walked away. But you made a
point I think in part one about the importance of
family and old old friends, and they're the ones that
stick around regardless and always have your back.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
One hundred percent. And when we get to the part
where things get good and family is a really important conversation.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Well let's start turning it around. But the last last
thing and a quote that when you did turn it around,
you make a point that your family never gave up
on you, especially your mum. But you've been quoted here.
I call the glimpse of myself in the mirror, and
these are your words. I was bone thin, my face
was messed up, and I was alone, and I looked
(23:18):
at myself and thought, who are you calling the moment
of sanity or divine intervention? But I knew if things
didn't change, I was going to die. Can you talk
us through that moment?
Speaker 2 (23:27):
So yeah, look, it was rock bottom is an interesting thing,
and I like, as I said, I've had all the
external dramatic rock bottoms that you could think of. Like
by the time I got to the end, I had nothing.
There was no not a dollar to my name, not
a nothing, you know what I mean? Like there was
nothing so and I think quite oftenatics need to get
(23:49):
to this point. It's not about any of the external stuff.
It's got to be an internal shift. And I just
caught myself that day, and I still I'll never know
what it was that made me see myself different in
that moment, but I saw it, and I saw it
for everything that it was, and it was really hard
and really terrifying, and I did. I knew in that
moment if I didn't change now, that I was going
(24:11):
to die, and that there was no other path for me.
I knew that.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
And your mum from that point in time, you contacted
your mum and she came and picked you up.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Yeah, I rang Mum. And I'd never and look, I've
been to in the however, many twelve thirteen years of
using drugs and alcohol the way that I did, I
had never gone to rehab because I wanted to. I'd
been plenty of times. I think I went six or
seven times. I'd always been for somebody else and to
save something else or to appease somebody else. But this
(24:44):
was the first time I called and said, Mum, I
need you to come and get me like I I'm
going to die and I need help.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
I think that's an important thing, isn't it that the
other times you've gone, you're doing it because you've got
a court matter coming up or someone told you to do.
This is the light bulb moment where you think, no,
I'm going to do it because I want to do it,
and that must make it make a big difference. There
was another thing, and it was a sad part in
the article I read that your mums picked you up
(25:14):
and you've gone back to the place to pick up
your belongings, but you basically didn't have any belongings because
you'd hocked everything and whatever you had left there. But
you had a box containing fan mail there and.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
I've still got I've still got that box.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
That just made it just made me feel sad, Like
I can just picture it going there and I've got nothing.
And then there's people that used to look up to you,
people that respected you, and you know, fan mail there.
How did that make you feel?
Speaker 2 (25:45):
I mean, it's pretty embarrassing, really, you know. I guess
it's pretty symbolic of exactly the position I was in,
Like I was had hopped everything of any value and
the only things I had left of any importance or
that I deemed important was letters from strangers that I'd
never met, and and why I thought they were important
(26:09):
and why I still had them and why I put
them in the ca And I've still got that box
and I'll always always keep that box. And you know
I have there's pictures and girls have written letters and
made photo books of all of the places that I've
been and seen. It was you know, yeah, it was hard.
It's been that part to let go of that part
of my life and to put that and to and
it was a grieving process to grieve that person and
(26:34):
that the idea of how I thought my life would
play out took a really long time to put it
in a place that I'm that I'm peaceful with and
have a lot of acceptance and I don't live in
a space of what if anymore.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
You've got through through that, you're back with your mum,
and you're honesty, and I appreciate your honesty that yeah,
you're not going to touch drugs again, but you touch
it one more time.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
I touched it a few more times.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
All the time, sorry said one more time, you were alone.
I knew more.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Okay, no, No, it was a few look, I went
to rehab. Three days later, I did. I went. I
went back to a rehab that was that I'd been
to a few years earlier. That I stayed long enough
to know that there was a way out. But I
was deep in that relationship. And whilst I stayed in
that relationship, I was never ever going to get clean.
But it gave me enough to know that they were
(27:25):
there when and if the time ever came, and I
went to their facility, but it wasn't a hospital or
a lockdown setting. And I knew that I needed to stop,
but I didn't know it was Having to stop was
a whole different ballgame. And so you know that powerlessness
and that drive, and yeah, I just couldn't control myself.
(27:46):
So at nighttime, this is the truth. So at nighttime,
when everybody else will go to bed and you could
walk out the door, I'd be laying in bed, begging
myself not to go, and I'd get up and I'd
go and use, and I'd come back and then try
and pretend that I hadn't used. And it was the
most painful way to exist in the world. And so
that went on for a little while, and then eventually
I got caught doing that, and I went to a
place called mold And Private Hospital in Melbourne and I
(28:09):
walked through the doors and I'll never forget this moment.
The last time I ever used a drug on the
twenty sixth of March twenty eighteen, and I had this
really romantic idea of how it was going to end,
and it was going to be, you know, this way,
and I had this big I won't use the wording,
but I had this I had this big bit of
drugs that I'd saved and I was going to use
(28:31):
right before I walked in and I used and it
didn't do anything, and it was the scariest moment of
my life, you know what I mean. The drugs didn't
work anymore, and it was I just knew that it
was time for me to face myself, and so in
I went. And I spent six weeks in that particular
facility and it was the most painful, terrifying experience in
(28:54):
my life. I detoxed from that relationship that I mentioned
At the same time, it was the last time I
had any contact with him too, which was equally as painful.
And that was the beginning of the rest of my life.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
You would have to, I would imagine have to break
away from him as well, the two of you together
with one and show weakness and drag the other one down,
or vice versa. Absolutely the six weeks of detox and
you said it was the most painful time. Just tell
the listeners that don't really understand what it involves physically, emotionally,
(29:30):
everything that had on you that six weeks.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
So the physical part, I guess, you know, And all
drugs are different, but the physical part with ICE is
pretty quick. It hurts, like the body hurts and it
aches and it's tired and all that stuff. But it's
not like other B toxes. It's the mental game, I
guess with Ice. And you know, I'd been gathering hate
(29:54):
and shame and guilt and for myself and Karen, dragging
that shit around since I was five, you know what
I mean. And I just I just gathered so much
of this pain and anxiety and fear and resentment and
all of this shit that I've been lugging around. And
(30:15):
I'd been avoiding it, and I had done literally everything
in my power to avoid it for thirty two years.
And I got lobbed and all of those things that
kept me safe from feeling that got stripped off me
and I got left to sit with myself, no phones,
no internet, no ringing up somebody to distract it, like,
I'm just left with myself to sit in it. And
(30:37):
he was terrifying. And I had to face myself. I
had to face all of those things that I'd done
in the using, all the people that i'd hurt, all
the things that i'd all the people that I'd wronged,
which was a lot by that point, and that takes
a lot of making peace with oneself to face that
and take responsibility for it and not blame anybody else
anymore and point my finger at the rest of the world.
(30:59):
And you know, I had to look at myself and go, well,
this is on u k. Like nobody else can fit.
Nobody else in this world is going to be able
to fix this. But you are the only person that
can process hate, responsibility and move on from this. Your mum,
your dad, your brother, your sister, God himself can't help
you here. It's you. And so the first few things
that really needed to change, and with the ultimate shift
(31:21):
was I knew that I couldn't trust myself. I was
not a trustworthy person in my life. Any thinking, any
thinking that I had come up with wasn't going to
get me anywhere good, you know what I mean? It
was only going to lead me back out the doors,
back into the houses, back into the places that I was.
And I needed to come to terms with that and
accept it. So I shut up and I listened to
(31:41):
what these people in this place said and just didn't
act on any thought that I had. And that was
the bigg That was how it started to change, is
when I went, you know what, I just need to
listen and trust all these other people that have got
my best interests at heart, and forget about any ideas
I think I might have.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
That's a big shift in mine, said, isn't it Just
You've got to make sure you don't trust yourself. But
look where you're trusting yourself has taken you.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Trusting me was a bad plan, and too long a
time on my own, in my own thoughts, left to
my own devices was and then stayed that way for
a few years, you know.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Ye, Well, yeah, I've spoken to people that have beaten
an addiction, but they say it's always there. You've got
to constantly work on yourself and how long? How long
have you been cleaned for now?
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Coming up?
Speaker 1 (32:33):
As and do you is there practices you have in
place to make sure that you don't have any setbacks?
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Yeah? Look, look I haven't in a normal day to
day life, I haven't thought about using drugs or alcohol
can be challenging at times. Yeah, not that I've thought
about drinking, but sometimes I get a bit of fomo
for a second, and then I wake up feeling good
and everyone else's shit and then I go, yeah, not sad,
I don't feel like then. But It's been years since
I've thought about using drugs, you know. But there's certainly
(33:05):
things that I do in my life to keep myself safe,
Like I'll share this story, and this is a really
important story and perspective for maybe anybody who's going junkies
and junkies your choice. You chose that and all of
that mentality, which I totally understand and respect, because unless
you witnessed it or had a loved one go through it,
or been through it yourself, it's really hard to understand
(33:28):
why any normal person, when they get in that much
trouble and pain can't just pull themselves up and change.
And I get that but there's things I have to
do to keep myself safe. For example, I had to
hit replacement a couple of weeks ago, and I knew
going into that that I would have to take pain
medication and there would be some things involved in that that,
you know, steps out of the rules of my normal
(33:50):
day to day life. And because of previous experiences in
recovery with taking pain meds, you know, I knew that
that would turn that part of my brain up. And
it was as an And it doesn't matter how many
years or how much talking or how much awareness I
think I have or how cool I think I am
around it. If I don't put certain steps in place
before those drugs hit my system, I'm gone, you know.
(34:13):
And I experienced that in real time, and it's really
interesting to be able to watch that part of my
brain with awareness attached of Like, as I woke up
from that surgery, before both of my eyes could open,
I was thinking about how I could manipulate the nurse
to give me more phentanyl.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Scary, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
That's not choice to me, that's powerlessness. Now on the
flip side of that, recovery is one hundred percent my choice.
There is nobody else responsible for me men clean other
than me, And it's the choices that I make in
my sane mind today that keep me safe from that
part of me. So that's kind of how it works.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Yeah, you mentioned when you're going in the hospital for
the surgery, you said that you put steps in place.
What steps did you put in place?
Speaker 2 (34:56):
So the first is everybody who's involved in that surgery
knows in advance that I'm a recovering addict, like the surgeon,
the anethetist, my nurses, anybody that's got anything to do
with it, knows that the likelihood of me drug seeking
is possible and that I might be asking for drugs
that I don't need. Okay, So that's the first one, Yeah,
(35:17):
that normally, And the second one is no, I try
really hard not to go home with any medication that
I can misuse and know like just in case prescriptions.
So I did have to come home with some this time.
I came home with minimal, though, and I can't be
in charge of the medication. Somebody that I know, love
and trust and understand the situation has to be in
(35:38):
charge of the meds, and I just up my recovery game.
So I check in with the people that I know
from NA and the people that understand what can happen,
you know, my family, checking with my family, anybody who
sort of knows me and knows how my brain can
be affected. And it was I'll tell you, like it
was rough. It was a rough week. I had a
lot of crazy thoughts and I just was really noticing
(35:59):
my thinking and my behaviors were just no good. So
everybody's just a little bit more on guard. But I
keep talking and I don't pretend that I'm okay. I
think that's the most important one. I don't try and
pretend that I got it covered, because I probably don't.
So I just say, hey, I'm having doesn't mean that
I'm going to run off tomorrow and buy a bag
of coke, but like, I'm having a rough week, and
(36:19):
so just keep an eye on me.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Okay. That's good advice, speaking advice. If you had children's
loved ones or someone close to you going through what
you went through at your worst times, as you're trying
to come out, as you would diving in deeper, what
sort of device, what sort of support would you try
and give that person?
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Yeah, so I get I get a lot of families
contact me on social media asking me how do they
help their son, brother, mother, whoever it might be. And
it's such a hard one and I wish I had
a magical answer for them, but the truth is you
can't in a way like they'll get they'll offer them
the help and have the help there, I guess, but
they'll only change when they're ready to change, or if
(37:04):
they're ready to change. The best thing that you can
do for you is get educated. Get educated. Find there's
a couple of different support groups. Family Drug Support FDS
is a wonderful community of loved ones that you know,
alan On is another one. And get educated on addiction
and get educated on where to find the right help,
because I think that's one of the most overwhelming things
(37:26):
for families is when somebody is ready to get clean
or sober or whatever it might be, they don't know
where to go. You know, contact me. I'm always happy
to share. I know some really reputable places in this
country that I trust and with that kind of stuff.
But get educated, get yourself educated so for the day
when they do come to you and say I'm ready,
You're ready, And that's I think one of the biggest
(37:48):
things and mistakes that families make, and my family did
for a long time until they got their own help
and support, which they did. You know, when they went
and got their own support, was enabling. You know, there's
a fine line between love and enabling. And it's a
really tricky one.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
It's a tough one, isn't It really is a tough one.
But I like that I'll take that away about getting
educated about it, because at some point in time, if
you get the opportunity, you know what you're dealing with
and what the best way of approaching it.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Is so a great because often often addicts will tell
you how they think they need to be loved as
opposed to how they actually need to be loved in
those times. And if you can, if you can work
that out, then you two steps ahead.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
And you talk enabling. That's a difficult thing for with
someone's going through it that you love. I'm there to
support you. Sometimes it's got to be tough. Love, draw
a line in the sand, and okay, this is it.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Tough, tough little boundaries, boundaries, boundaries, and it's so hard
when and I nearly fell off my chair when my
mum and dad blessed their hearts. They didn't know any better.
Enabled the hell out of me for years. And the
day they turned up with boundaries and awareness and knowledge,
I was checkmate, you know what I mean? I had,
I was done.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
That's a good way of putting it. They've checked, madeed you,
they check how can I maneuver around this? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (39:04):
And I was just like, no, these are the rules,
these are the boundaries. Will help you with this. You know,
we're not going to let your start, but I'm not
going to give you the fifty dollars to go get
the groceries. I'll turn up your house with fifty dollars
worth of groceries. And it was just the way they
shifted it into a way that was helpful as opposed
to enabling.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
And that's that's good knowledge. So that's a good good information.
Have you mended your relationships with your family and friends?
Like you said, there's a lot of people that you
needed to apologize for all the terrible things that you've done.
How is your relationship with your family and your close friends,
your long term friends unbelievable?
Speaker 2 (39:39):
You know, I by the time I got clean, nobody
really wanted to come near me with a ten foot poll.
I guess your parents or I'm lucky. My parents, you know,
always loved me. They were furious. And look, the first
thing you want to do about a week after getting
clean is you want to call everybody and apologize and
say how sorry you are. And you know, I think
(40:00):
there's normally that natural thing of all. I just wanted
to I'm like, I'm fine now if everyone could just
forgive me. But you know, I'd said sorry forty thousand
times already and it meant nothing. And it really just
took time. It took time of me showing up and
doing what I said I was going to do, and
you know, continuing to do behaviors that slowly but surely
(40:23):
let them trust me again. And that took time to
build on that. And you know, I had to remove
my expectations on them forgiving me and let them forgive
me and rebuild our relationship in their time. And that's
another mindset that I think has to happen in in recovery.
Like they didn't know me and forgiveness, no one did,
No one owed me anything, And I had to go
into asking for forgiveness without expectation of forgiveness. You know,
(40:46):
it had to be about just apologizing because it was
the right thing to do. But yeah, that took years
to get to that point. But you know, my sister
and I I don't know how many times a day
I talked to it, but we both have little babies
about the same age, and you know, we're best friends,
and my brother and I and Sally. I lost my
mum a couple of years ago, which was pretty rough times,
(41:08):
you know, But I did that without having to use
which was pretty remarkable.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Yea. Yeah, Well, it's those little setbacks that there's always
that danger period. But it sounds like you've got an
awareness of what you need to do to protect your
protect yourself.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
And that's what recovery is. It's about knowing and accepting
my flaws and where I trip up and not trying
to pretend that I've got this.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
You know.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
I think that's one of the most dangerous things for
people who are addicts, is going I've got this, don't
worry about it, like I don't have this, Like there's
I'm only a couple of mistakes away from picking up
a drug and I'll and it's really people find that
really disheartening. And I don't I just that's just what
I have to know for myself to keep myself safe.
And because you know, I know that if I pick
(41:55):
up a drug tomorrow. You know, I say this all
the time. I'm a drug addict. I love drugs, and
I you know, we'll always be more using in me.
But I don't know if there'd be another recovery. I
don't know about that.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
It be a long podcast if there was.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Yeah, God help me.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
I make this observation. I see friends that have had
problems with alcohol or drugs or whatever, and sometimes I
get frustrated the people that are close to them. You know,
the person that's clearly got a drinking problem. Let's say,
I'll come on, mate, we'll go out for a drink.
Or they've just got out of prisons, say and come on,
we'll go for a drink, the very thing that put
(42:33):
them in prison. Do you have any people from your
past or the reach out come out we're playing this,
or have you consciously distanced yourself from that lifestyle so
the temptations not there.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
So the first thing I did when I went to rehab,
before I even came out, was controlled. I deleted my life.
I changed my number, I deleted my I didn't just
delete all the numbers. I went into my iCloud account
and deleted my whole life and my past. I knew
that anybody of any importance that needed to find me
(43:07):
or wanted to find me would know where to find me,
and if they didn't, then they didn't need to be
in my life. And that was I needed that. As
I said, I couldn't trust myself. So you know, six
months in, had somebody from the past it oh, let's
even just catch up. Let's catch up for a coffee,
I would be, Oh, that sounds like a lovely idea.
In the next minute, next minute, you know, I'm backing
Shepherd and doing whatever. So that was one of the
(43:29):
most important parts of moving forward, was leaving the past behind.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Yeah. I think that is a big, big step. Do
you have any ongoing programs like Narcotics Anonymous or any
of that you participate in those programs?
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Absolutely? So. Narcotics Anonymous played a massive part in keeping
me clean, and I think big. I think the other
part recovery of any sort, whether that be drugs, alcohol,
mental health, depression, whatever it might be. I think everybody
needs community, and you know, NA was what worked for me.
But I just needed to have people that weren't my mum,
(44:05):
my dad, or my brother or somebody like that that
felt it was their responsibility to keep me safe. And
I just it was about having people around me that
understood the way that my brain worked and why, and
we could talk about things and with no judgment and
it was safe. And I'm a massive advocate for any
of the a's, AA, G, A s, all of the a's,
(44:27):
because it's just good to have people that understand.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
And could probably not just understand and watch out for
warning signs if they got your back as well, because
you're very like if you got any form of addiction,
you become very cunning in covering things up.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
To it's fool yourself. Well, you know, you can fool yourself.
You can trick yourself into thinking you're fine and all
of a sudden you're not. So it's having people that
do know what to look out for.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
You know.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
If my friends haven't heard from me, and most of
the time these days it's because I have two kids
and I just forget what day it is. But if
they haven't heard from me in a while, they'll bring
in and say, hey, what you do what you're doing,
or they'll know that I'm going in for a hit replacement.
And nobody else thought of that, that hiccup turning up.
But you know, they turn up at the hospital and
they go, how many of those pills you had today?
(45:14):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (45:15):
Okay, Well, you've got good people around you. Yeah, you've
cut your old life off, You've cleaned yourself up, and
you're no longer the pop star, the musician, you no
longer the ice addict. You walk out. What do you
do with your life from there? How did you rebuild everything?
How did you find purpose? How did you find direction?
Speaker 2 (45:37):
Really slowly? And I believe that's been the key. I
didn't know who I was Gary, You know, I didn't
know what I liked. I didn't know how to get
a job. I didn't know how to pay bills. I
didn't really know how to do anything. I knew how
to sing songs, and I knew how to take drugs.
So I after I left that six week rehab, I
(45:59):
then went into another program for about eighty months to
two years, and it was called a sober living house,
and it was more of a there was freedom involved
in it, like I could go out the front door.
It was the place that I mentioned earlier that I'd
been to. I went back into there, and I really
slowly but surely learned how to trust myself, how to
trust my thinking. I didn't have a phone for a
(46:20):
long time, and then when I did get a phone,
I got one of those like old burner phones, flip phones,
without the Internet and without social media. And I just
slowly added stuff into my life and went out and
tested it and went, yep, that's I'm okay with that,
you know. And then I went and got a job,
like just a job. I went and got my traffic
traffic control ticket. And you know, for so many years
(46:42):
I thought self esteem was wrapped up in the way
that I looked and the clothes that I wore, or
the cars that I drove, or the money in my bank.
And you know, I learned that self esteem belongs in
none of those places. It's all about doing esteemable acts
and getting a job and turning up on time, clean
and responsible and doing a job and going home. And
(47:03):
it was just little not lying to people or turning
up when I said I was going to turn up.
All of this, these little one percent has just started
to rebuild this life, and you know, I worked out
what my morals and values were, and you know, I
just slowly built a life and music was certainly not
a part of that. In my mind, I didn't think
it would be. I thought that I was done with music.
(47:25):
And then I realized that I love music and I
now do music in a way that fills my cup
as opposed to chasing unicorns as.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
Well, that makes sense, and just getting that being through
the path that you've been through, and especially the low
part of your life, how rewarding it is. Just been
a citizen again.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
And the first day I went to work, you know,
the first time I got paid, the first after my
first week of work, and I got up and I
was going to work, I had my lunch, I turned
up on time. Made me feel better than anything. It
just I felt proud to myself and I felt like
I was a person in the world. And I can't
(48:05):
that nothing will beat that feeling the first time that
I was a responsible human in the world. I'll never
forget how that felt.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
Yeah, and all the pieces start to come together again.
I've seen people whose lives were off the track and
they talk about it just feels good just being being
a normal person. And I'm not chasing whatever I was
chasing before.
Speaker 2 (48:23):
No, it was a really pivotal moment.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
What about love? Did you find love?
Speaker 2 (48:29):
Love?
Speaker 1 (48:29):
I did?
Speaker 2 (48:30):
I did, and I do. You know, part of my
recovery was no men or because you know, I sickness
only attracts sickness. You know, I don't think you can
find a healthy relationship when you're crazy anyway. So I
made a rule that I wasn't going to do any
dating or go near any men for a while. So
(48:50):
I did just that, and it took me a couple
of years, and you know, I found a man and
we've been together nearly, you know, over six years now,
you know, I mean it's it's very which is great.
It's very vanilla compared to anything I've ever been. If
was very calm, it's not toxic, it's not bombs going
off all through. It's very safe and it's wonderful. And
(49:12):
from that, you know, I now have two little babies,
which is something I never thought that i'd ever do.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
Yeah, well, you've got your you've got your hands full
there and it's nice that you're in the found found
the right relationship and two kids, looking at the lessons
that you've learned in life, what messaging or how would
you try and steer your kids to let's not go
down the path. Mum went all the dangers of going
(49:39):
down that path? What what? What are the things that
you've learned?
Speaker 2 (49:43):
Look? I and and to be honest, having kids, that
was my one reservation about having kids is like I
was terrified that they'd have my bug. And someone said
to me, you can't. You can't live life with that thought.
And you know, it nearly stopped me. And you know,
I guess if they ever find themselves down that path,
(50:05):
and I'll know where to send them. But I also
know that I can't stop them. But I think I
think it comes before the problem starts, you know. I
think it's about teaching them from little ones, you know,
even now about self worth and not that my parents
didn't parenting I think looks really different then from what
(50:26):
it does now. It's a different, different world. And I
think it's about teaching them that they are enough and
worth and building trust and knowing that you know, and
removing shame from our relationship. And again not that my
parents ever made me feel that way, it was just
different you know that they can come to me with anything,
and I think it's I think that's where it all starts,
(50:46):
is you know, supporting them from when they're little as
opposed to dealing with the issue if it comes up.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
Yeah, okay, well I'm sure you've got your hands full.
How old are the kids now?
Speaker 2 (50:58):
I've got a six month old and a two and
a half year old.
Speaker 1 (51:03):
Did you see you in ten years? Good luck?
Speaker 2 (51:06):
I feel like I need it.
Speaker 1 (51:07):
Yeah, okay, well that's going to keep you occupied. You're
doing the podcast as well.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
Yeah, look, I after it all happened, I guess people
always wondered. People remained interested in my story, which I
was always People wanted to know where I went because
the last thing they saw I was going to jail
for fifteen years, and then I was gone for a
long time. So after many years and a few news
people wanted me to come on and share my story,
(51:35):
and I said, nah, it doesn't feel right. So I
went and did a podcast and told the story in
a lot of depth and a lot of detail, and
the response from that was really surprising, and so I
decided to carry on. And so I've got a podcast
called why Do I Feel this way, and it's just
sharing stories of people from all different walks of life
that have faced different types of adversity and found better
ways to do life than they did yesterday. And it's
(51:56):
just something I'm really proud.
Speaker 1 (51:58):
Of, so you should be. And I think your story
that you tell there's so many lessons to be learned
in that. I think it's interesting, like we understand where
people's lives are off track right from the start and think, Okay,
well that's not going to happen to me because I've
got the support round. But yeah, we make choices in
life that can point you in the wrong direction. But
(52:21):
I think the most amazing thing is you said, you
know people wrape you off when yeah, you've been arrested
and looking like or possibility of serving fifteen years. I
remember that when it was hitting the media and I'm
just probably looking at through it at the time with
the cops lens think of course, she's fucked like that.
She's not coming back from that, like you got the
(52:43):
wake up call for the first arrest and then still
doing it. But it just shows you can turn your
life around. I think it's an important message.
Speaker 2 (52:52):
I think it's the most important message is. It doesn't matter.
And I'm not the worst case going around either. Like
I've met people in my recovery that have been further
down the rabbit hole, even if you think there isn't
further down, there is than I was. And they live
beautiful lives to say, beautiful, full, rich lives, free from
all of that chaos. And the message in it for
(53:12):
me is it a It can happen to anyone like,
so just don't beat that.
Speaker 1 (53:17):
I think that's an important thing to get across.
Speaker 2 (53:19):
Yeah, anyone can find themselves where I did. You know,
as I said from the beginning, this shit doesn't discriminate.
But b it doesn't matter how far down you go,
as long as you've still got two feet on the ground.
I promise you can do it. It's not easy. It's
pretty simple, but it's not easy, but it's it's doable,
and a life beyond your wildest dreams is waiting for
(53:40):
you if you if you just take the first step.
Speaker 1 (53:43):
Yeah, and you found I get the sense there's a
peacefulness about you. You look at peace and the way
you're talking and talking about your life. Now there's something
cool about that too, isn't there? Like you know you
sound like you were chasing chaos. But sometimes calmness in life.
Life is not too bad.
Speaker 2 (54:01):
I love calm, I love quiet. It's you know, I'm
happy for that. Life is pretty simple for me these days.
And you know, I have starting to go back to work.
As I said, I'm doing music and I go I
like to do, you know, speaking about this stuff where
I can, because I find that I have, you know,
a unique position that you know, it was a pretty
public situation and people, you know, I can use my story.
(54:22):
It doesn't all have to be for nothing. It could
be for something, so you know, I do that. But
for the most part, my life's pretty peaceful. I'm peaceful,
as you said, and I think, you know, yes, I
have all the external stuff back in life. I've got
cars and I don't have to rob people anymore, and
all that stuff, you know. I you know, I've got
money in the bank and houses and beautiful children and
all that stuff. But the biggest gift I got from
(54:43):
the work that I did is my internal world. I
don't wake up with that impending doom anymore. I don't
wake up hating myself. I don't I don't resent everybody
and have I'm not riddled with anger and all of
that shit that I carried around for all those years.
Life is just life, and sometimes it's hard. Life throws
donuts at you sometimes, but you know, I know that
(55:05):
all of that shit passes. Nothing's permanent good nor bad.
And I'll be okay as long as I don't use drink.
You use drugs and drink alcohol.
Speaker 1 (55:13):
Well, Kate, we'll wrap it up at this point, but
I just want to thank you for coming on the
coming on the podcast, sharing a deeply personal story, and yeah,
the value that people listening to this will get from
hearing your story, I think it's quite inspirational, and yeah,
it's it just shows that you can find find your
(55:33):
way out of the darkest hole you can.
Speaker 2 (55:35):
Thank you so much for having me, and thank you
for listening.
Speaker 1 (55:38):
Me to listening, or to the audience to listen.
Speaker 2 (55:40):
Or anybody you, anybody listening. I hope it's a lot
to hear.
Speaker 1 (55:44):
I hope there's more people listening just you and me.
But even if there's not, I've enjoyed the enjoyed the chat.
So thanks so much and all the best for the future,
and good luck with the two kids. They're tough ages,
Thank you, cheers
Speaker 2 (56:00):
Sent nineteen n
The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.
Detective see a side of life the average person has
never exposed her I spent thirty four years as a cop.
For twenty five of those years, I was catching killers.
That's what I did for a living. I was a
homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,
I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.
(00:23):
The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories
from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw
and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some
of the content and language might be confronting. That's because
no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.
Join me now as I take you into this world.
(00:46):
In part two of my chat with Kate Derouge, we
talk about how low her life got, what it was
like living in a drug den with ten other people,
being attacked by a former partner in a drug fueled
rage with a machete, her arrests, and the public humiliation
that came with that, along with the threat of going
to jail for a long time now, the light bulb
(01:07):
moment in Kate's life was when she saw herself in
the mirror and was disgusted by what she had become.
How she turned the life around and now as a
mother of two beautiful children, the message she would be
giving to them so they can learn from her mistakes.
It was an emotional but inspiring talk and I came
away from it with a deeper understanding of how close
(01:28):
all of us are to destroying our lives with poor choices.
Have a listen to what Kate said. Kate Derouge, welcome
back to Part two of I Catch Killers.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Thank You. It's it was a big first part nearly there.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
It was a big first part where it's sort of
on a bit of a nosedive at this stage, but
we're going to bring leave it back and bring you up.
In part one, we talked about your highs and your lowers,
your highs with your success from Australian Idol and your
career in music that you went on too from there,
But we also talked about starting to use drugs and
(02:04):
how that got hold of you and then the spiral
when you started using ice and I think you were
addicted for seven years on that. I was interested that
I didn't realize that your parents had pulled you away
from it when your career crashed and were trying to
get you on the straight and narrow, and you're obviously
committed to it. But then you went to Mariuchidor for
(02:28):
a radio gig for a couple of months, and you
discovered the life again by the sounds of.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
It, Well, I wouldn't say I discovered the life. I
was just trying to fool myself, you know what I mean.
I was still hanging onto this concept that I had
a career left and using something, whether it be drugs
or alcohol. And look and when I've never really identified
as an alcoholic, but when I drank, I drank to access,
(02:55):
you know what I mean. I would drink vodka for
breakfast out of a Gatorade bottle, So you know, I
didn't do anything in a healthy way. But yeah, I
think I went to this job in Rucchie do Or
to try to prove to everybody that I was okay
and that I could look after myself and that they
were overreacting, and it just was a disaster.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
There's a quote in again one of the interviews that
you've done, and I'll just read it out and we'll
discussed that that around this period as well, and truly
in the grips of method addictions. So this is when
you've started using ice. All I wanted was for everyone
to fuck off out of my face so I could
use And it hurts my heart to say that I
(03:35):
lost all hope, want or care to be any version
of the Kate everybody knew. So this is after maroochi
d'Or you've lost your way again. And I think you
said you were traveling with someone and he had a
ice pipe, and you thought why not.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Well, it was as simple as you know, and I
could sniff out drugs from a mile away, and I
jumped in a car, which is reckless in itself. You know,
I'm in a town I don't know, and in the
middle of the night, I jump in a car with
a person I don't know, madness, and I could tell
that he was on something, and I just said, I
don't know what you have, but I didn't care, but
you need to give me some And that was it,
(04:16):
and that was I you know again, back to that
thing of I met this man and he became my world,
and I think I didn't leave his side for the
next two three years. We just used and traveled around
Australia together and it just all seemed honky dory to me.
But it was the beginning. And as I said, in
(04:36):
the beginning, like everybody was like, I've seen a bit
of a changing cake. She's not, I guess because I
wasn't shit faced drunk, you know, on the floor by
ten o'clock in the morning. People saw an improvement, you know.
I was out doing things and being in the world
and I'd answer the phone and stuff like that. But
it all really went to hell when I got caught
(04:57):
using ice and which is where that quote came from,
when I got driving under the influence.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yeah, talk us through, talk us through that.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
So my last ditch effort at regaining some kind of
career in my deluded state of mind is I tried
to release a song and I did and it was
all going really well. And my manager had said to
me before we took, you know, on that mission, he said,
I'll do this with you one more time, but do
not lie to me. I think he used some more
choice words than that, but he said, do not lie
to me. No drugs, no, no, blah blah blah. And I said, yeah, no,
(05:29):
where is good I'm fine, and look, I'd lost an
incredible amount of weight by They're not gonna lie. I
looked good, looked good. I was skinny, and I was
looking the part. And people were like, yes, Kate, you
look amazing. You know, people will start your back. People
were starting to take me more seriously, which was just
fueling my madness. I was like, yeah, this ice thing,
it's working for me. And I was in the media again,
(05:52):
you know, I was on the big radio shows again.
I was doing it, but I was using like a
mad woman in the background. And you know, my mum
and I had had driven to Sydney. I was going
to do a film clip and do all that kind
of stuff. And I had to drop her off at
the airport. And it was the day after the Mardi Gras,
and I was like, oh, after the airport, I'll just
(06:13):
have a bit of a look at you know, what's
going on the streets of Sydney. It's always a bit interesting.
And I come around the bend and there was a
booze bus and I drove in there. I thought, you, beauty,
haven't been drinking. This won't be a problem. And it
was at the beginning of when you know, drug testing,
and I didn't even think about it, and I passed
my breath test and I went through. He said, oh,
if you could just pull in here, you know, we're
(06:33):
doing random rug drug tests. And my heart sank and
that was me done, so you know, and I remember
walking into the big the bus but the second test
or whatever it was, and this copper looked at me
and he just said, oh you, he said you. He said,
I had another one of your kind in here the
other day. And you know he was really unkind about it. Yeah,
(06:56):
he was really unkind about it. And yeah that was
the end. That was the end of the lot.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Okay. So that that hit the media as it was
always always going to do, Yes, I would imagine there'd
be shame and every other emotion that comes from that.
Talk us through that. What that did to you at
the time.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yes, of course. So the headline came out, you know,
Kate Deruze choose Ice across everything, and you know, I
lost whatever slither of respect within the industry and career
that I thought I had left in that headline, Like
that was it. I lost everything to get about it,
and that was it. I And yes, there was a
(07:37):
lot of shame and a lot of embarrassment and all
of those feelings. But I masked that with anger and
it just sent and I didn't know how to process that.
I didn't know what to do with it. And I
so instead of going, wow, that's a pretty big rock
bottom and to the most of the you know, normal people,
that would have been enough, But that was the ticket.
I guess that my disease and my addiction needed to
(07:59):
go right. All think I'm a junkie anyway now, So
I'm gonna I'm just going to take off here and
I'm going to show you. I'm going to show you
what it's really like. And I guess it just gave
me the permission to use the way that I'd been
wanting to use for years, which was with no. I
didn't need to hide it anymore, you know, it was
just go Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
I would imagine it would have been a difficult conversation
that you had with family or and people close to
you when it became public that you're using ice. And
just the way you describe that headline so much connotation.
There's anyone that's touched ice is just a lost cause. Yeah,
this is just a life spirally in out of control.
It might be painful, but the conversations you had with
(08:40):
your parents then, Oh.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Look, my parents knew. I can't remember if they knew
it was ice, but they knew. They knew I wasn't well.
I mean, hence why my mom came with me to Sydney.
And my mom bless her and rest her soul, and
she I wouldn't be here without her, you know. She
chased me around this tree, and my siblings chased me
(09:02):
around this countryside for years trying to save my life.
And I'd be nowhere if I didn't have them in
my corner. But they knew I wasn't well. I don't
think they knew what degree it had got to. Yeah,
but I wasn't up for conversations by that point, you know,
I wasn't really I wasn't really invested in talking. I
didn't want to talk about it. As I said before,
(09:23):
I didn't want to talk about it. I wasn't interested
in changing. And I was gone.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
So you went to court. What was the lifestyle you
were living at that stage? Like, I got the fact
that you were carving your way back into a career,
and yeah, writing and doing some things and filming, so
it was heading in the right direction. That's been taken
away from you. What sort of life were you living after? That?
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Got pretty bad pretty quick, you know. I went from
that life or a bit of that life again, to
living in shooting galleries, and you know, wherever I could
find a bed, I just would be there. Wherever that
wherever the drugs were, and wherever they took me and
my you know, as I said, my consequential thinking was
(10:10):
gone and I was in I found myself in a
lot of dangerous places, with a lot of dangerous people,
doing a lot of dangerous things really really quickly. And
I think that's what that drug does, quicker than anything else.
Because it's all good and well. When you've got the
money and you can afford it, and you know, you
pay for it, and the dealer will give you the
it's not a worry. But as soon as and I've
(10:30):
done there's no drugs I haven't tried, right, there's none.
I've done them all, But I've never felt the desperation
and drive to need to continue to use a drug
like methamphetamines. Never. It just possesses you like nothing I
could explain to anybody. Once it's in you. Oh and
and so I very quickly would just do whatever I
(10:53):
needed to do to get what I needed to get,
and there were no boundaries to that. Use your mass,
so use your imagine, yes, to work out what they
look play.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yeah, and look, I've been to the drug dens and
difference of stuff where a lot of people are using
or abandoned buildings and all sorts of things. I was
a hard assed homicide cop and I'd walk into those places.
I'd be terrified. It was just it was like something
out of a horror movie some of the places that
I saw. And you see the people that have been
(11:23):
using ice, and there was this glazed look. There was
no soul behind the eyes. It was just an anything
could happen. So, you know, you're a female, vulnerable female
in that stage, addicted to it. I can only imagine
the places that you found you found yourself in.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Yeah, and the fear like and I'm a pretty nervous person,
you know, as the girl that sits here today. But
I had no fear and I was and my eyes
were black, you know what I mean. There was no
there's nothing behind here. And it still hurts me to
hear you know, it still makes me emotional and makes me,
you know, in my throat to say those things, because
(12:00):
that person was was fucked and there's no other word
for it, and excuse my language, but I was just
I was gone. And I still sit here today realizing
how lucky I am to have got out, because not
many people once they get lost in that world, it's
not easy to make it back.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Well, very very few come out, but you're showing that
it's possible, and I think that that's an important message.
But also the important message is how low that life
can can stoop when you're addicted to a drug like ice.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
I think there's no there is no end to the low,
like there will always be a lower low, and just
when you think you couldn't possibly do any worse, you will.
And I think the true rock bottom in that world
is when you're in a box, and that's where it ends. Sadly.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Yeah, well, you had a couple of other other things
that happened you. You got arrested again with a few times,
same offense and also weapons charges. And again I know
that lifestyle, there's always knives or things around with people
that are living or trying to protect their ice or
(13:09):
get their ice. There's always stuff like that, the chargers.
What were the circumstances with your arrests there? That was
that was down in Victoria.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Yeah, so I got banned from a couple of towns
in Victoria along that post part of my bail conditions.
Shepherd and Shepanin was the town that changed my life fundamentally.
I think a lot of stuff happened when I lived there,
and I you know, that's when domestic violence and all
that kind of stuff really came into my world.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Well, I want to talk about you being stabbed with
a machete, but.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
We'll get Oh yep, now we can get to that.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
We'll get the back. We're just working through the list.
At this start, I should have laughed.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
It's not funny.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
It's not funny. It's not funny. And I promise, I promise,
we give you a ladder to crawl your way out
of here. But okay, we'll talk the next couple of arrests.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yeah, so I did. I got a rest a few times,
and look they were always for driving under the influence,
you know, got lost my license a few times and
then drove a few times whilst had I didn't have
my license got caught, the weapons was possibly was getting
a bit more serious, and you know when I started
getting correction orders and all that kind of stuff, and
you know, I'm really lucky. I remember, you know, being
(14:21):
in the cells and being stripped and all of that
fun stuff that happens. But yeah, there was I couldn't
tell you. I can't remember how many there were, but
there were enough.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
It's daunting, isn't it, Like when you cut your freedom's
being taken away from you. It's not the world that
you've grown up to and have an expectation you're going
to win there. But and you had a threat of
a fairly lengthy custodial sentence hanging over your head too,
so that must have been played on your mind.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
I did, and look, I remember, and you know it's
not funny. Again. I shouldn't laugh, you know, I remember
because I was hanging around with some pretty big criminals
by that point, people doing really bad things and her people,
and like a lot of crime that is so far
from the world that I grew up in or anything
that I could relate to, you know what I mean.
And I look at those guys but now and feel
(15:10):
sad for them. Because at the end of the day,
they were just really sick people like I was, with
a hell of a lot less resources and love in
their life to help them get better. But yeah, like
I remember everybody, when anybody ever got locked up and
come out of the cells, it was like, where's your tape?
Give me your tape, you know, because everyone always thought
everyone was going to rat on one another and tell
each other off or whatever. And I remember the first
(15:31):
time that I got locked up in the cells and
I had to sit there and the detective and go
through it all. And they did the tape and I
just sat and I cried, and I and I you know,
I was so busy running like this big gangster that
I thought that I'd become this big, bad ass gangster.
And I think and I was all and I was
all back, and I sat in this tape and just
cried for three hours, you know what I mean, just
sobbed like a baby and wanted my mum and begged
(15:53):
them to let me go so I didn't have to
front cod. I think I said something like, please, you
can't let me go to court in the morning. It'll
ruin my career. Like I didn't have a career by
that point. But you know, I'm still holding on to
this thing, and I knew that I couldn't really talk
about anything that I wanted to talk. I remember just
wanting to tell this detective everything because I was just
so sad and I just had this moment of vulnerability
(16:15):
and I couldn't because I knew the people waiting out
in the front of me would want my tape.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
And yeah, you're vulnerable there, and what we're talking about
there is someone that gets locked up. Well, the first
off of that, cops give where did you get your
drugs from? You give up the dealer and all that,
and then yeah, you're not hanging around with the nicest
people at this stage and you start talking and there's consequences.
So you absolutely delve right into this. It's a bit
(16:40):
of a different world than the Australian idol, isn't.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
It slightly different ends of the scales. Yeah, and it
was an eye opener, but again, it just was this
and I remember thinking a few times like how am I?
How was this my life? But it was and I
didn't know how to fix it.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Did you look at like other people from the people
you contemporary? So the ones that you were playing music with.
And yeah, members of young divas when their careers are
going from strength to strength, did you sometimes sit there
and go, I used to sing with them in your
own yeah, in your own mind.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah, yeah, well people, but you know what, people people
knew that the circles that I was running, and people
knew who I was. People knew where I came from,
and they used to some people used to find it
fascinating and and I wore it as a bit of
a badge embarrassingly for a little while.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Yeah, I wondered whether that carried anything in that. But yeah,
you're in all these people with their failed lives, and
you would have had a story. I used to be something.
This was who I.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Still think, and I am somebody in a way, you know.
But I'm sitting in the same rooms with all of
these people think and I'm still somebody of some importance,
and you know, I again, that just is a representation
of how deluded I was at that time. And I did,
you know. I would see the girls have their successes
in the media or something. You'd catch my eye in
a magazine or on Facebook or whatever it was, and
(18:03):
it hurt. But I would just bury that in the
backpack with all the other shit that I was trying
to avoid.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Yeah, and for your second door, your further arrests the
media attention again, and at that point in time, the public,
I would suggest to just writing your offers are there's
no hope for this person?
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Nah? She I think I think the last time, I
think I was looking at fifteen years, which I don't
think I ever was, but that's what the media said
I was. That was the headline. My poor grandma, the
sweetest person you've ever known in your life, rang up
and said, now, Darling, I'm going to come to court.
I'm going to put on a nice dress and tell
them that you're a nice girl. You know. I was
just I was just really yeah. I was deep in
(18:45):
it by that point, and I luckily didn't end up
in jail. I had a very good lawyer, and I
did my directions and my CCO, my community corrections order,
and completed that a couple of years later. But it
wasn't long after that that court case that things changed.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
The situation where you were attacked with a man in
your life and a drug fueled rage with a machete
doesn't sound very nice. Are you kind enough to tell
us what happened there.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Yeah, Look, I met my Look, I've been addicted to
all kinds of things, and love is no different. And
I was a crazy love addict, and you know, I
would fall in love instantly with the most toxic of humans.
And you know, I've done that a lot over the years,
and he was no different. And I met him in
(19:38):
a really dark moment. And I remember he walked into
this house I was in. I was really strung out
and I had no money and no drugs, and he
walked in and essentially pulled me out of his house
and we just became joined at the hip then and there,
and I just thought he was the most amazing thing ever.
And as those relationships do, and it's very common in
that that world, like there's so much violence, and that
(20:03):
relationship became no different. And he was a very violent
and angry man, and you know that became a part
of my story. But in the madness of it all,
you know, domestic violence is very complicated. And I was
so addicted to him and the way he made me
feel in so many ways that you know, I stayed
for a really long time. Yes, he did stab me
(20:26):
with a machete in my left hip one day. That
was a time.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Did you go to the hospital with that or go
to the police or were the place called?
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Or I had to go to the hospital. And obviously
on the way too that he drove me to the hospital.
We had to come up with a story that was
you know, I.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Can imagine you two creative genius as a story you
came up with that would be, I see.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
I fell on a piece of tin on a job site,
I think was the story. And they knew that that
wasn't true, and I think they sent him away to
go take a picture of the piece it in and
he went and threw away the machete, and you know,
and that was that was the end of that. And
they asked me if I needed help, and I said, no,
what You've been ridiculous and got out the next day
(21:12):
and carried on.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Look, you look back at the life, and I know
we're laughing at certain aspects of it, and I honestly
think that's some ways you've got to deal with it
in process that you've got to look at and go
this was just chaos because you were living and I
think the low point in your life was living in
a drug house with ten other people, and I'm imagining
(21:34):
they're not fine, upstanding citizens. They would have been ten
other people chasing the hit like you were chasing.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
They certainly weren't the best versions of themselves.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
No, that must have been. Yeah, just chaotic and just yeah.
I look at places like that and think, how does
anyone survive in that sort of place?
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Oh, look, it's this. You won't find us out a
more pathetic space to be. And there's just people that
are total prisoners to themselves. Yeah, and no, again, as
I said, and look, those people that I was spending
in that time again didn't have the love and the
resources that I had available to me. And I'm eternally
(22:15):
grateful for that. And I'm not saying that that made it,
you know, any different for me to get it was
just as hard for me to get clean. But they
didn't have a mum necessarily, some did, but not all
of them didn't necessarily have a mum chasing them around
the countryside trying to get them help.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
But I think something like that might be the difference
with you coming out and surviving it with you had
some people that just didn't give up on you, like
everyone else has just walked away. But you made a
point I think in part one about the importance of
family and old old friends, and they're the ones that
stick around regardless and always have your back.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
One hundred percent. And when we get to the part
where things get good and family is a really important conversation.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Well let's start turning it around. But the last last
thing and a quote that when you did turn it around,
you make a point that your family never gave up
on you, especially your mum. But you've been quoted here.
I call the glimpse of myself in the mirror, and
these are your words. I was bone thin, my face
was messed up, and I was alone, and I looked
(23:18):
at myself and thought, who are you calling the moment
of sanity or divine intervention? But I knew if things
didn't change, I was going to die. Can you talk
us through that moment?
Speaker 2 (23:27):
So yeah, look, it was rock bottom is an interesting thing,
and I like, as I said, I've had all the
external dramatic rock bottoms that you could think of. Like
by the time I got to the end, I had nothing.
There was no not a dollar to my name, not
a nothing, you know what I mean? Like there was
nothing so and I think quite oftenatics need to get
(23:49):
to this point. It's not about any of the external stuff.
It's got to be an internal shift. And I just
caught myself that day, and I still I'll never know
what it was that made me see myself different in
that moment, but I saw it, and I saw it
for everything that it was, and it was really hard
and really terrifying, and I did. I knew in that
moment if I didn't change now, that I was going
(24:11):
to die, and that there was no other path for me.
I knew that.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
And your mum from that point in time, you contacted
your mum and she came and picked you up.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Yeah, I rang Mum. And I'd never and look, I've
been to in the however, many twelve thirteen years of
using drugs and alcohol the way that I did, I
had never gone to rehab because I wanted to. I'd
been plenty of times. I think I went six or
seven times. I'd always been for somebody else and to
save something else or to appease somebody else. But this
(24:44):
was the first time I called and said, Mum, I
need you to come and get me like I I'm
going to die and I need help.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
I think that's an important thing, isn't it that the
other times you've gone, you're doing it because you've got
a court matter coming up or someone told you to do.
This is the light bulb moment where you think, no,
I'm going to do it because I want to do it,
and that must make it make a big difference. There
was another thing, and it was a sad part in
the article I read that your mums picked you up
(25:14):
and you've gone back to the place to pick up
your belongings, but you basically didn't have any belongings because
you'd hocked everything and whatever you had left there. But
you had a box containing fan mail there and.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
I've still got I've still got that box.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
That just made it just made me feel sad, Like
I can just picture it going there and I've got nothing.
And then there's people that used to look up to you,
people that respected you, and you know, fan mail there.
How did that make you feel?
Speaker 2 (25:45):
I mean, it's pretty embarrassing, really, you know. I guess
it's pretty symbolic of exactly the position I was in,
Like I was had hopped everything of any value and
the only things I had left of any importance or
that I deemed important was letters from strangers that I'd
never met, and and why I thought they were important
(26:09):
and why I still had them and why I put
them in the ca And I've still got that box
and I'll always always keep that box. And you know
I have there's pictures and girls have written letters and
made photo books of all of the places that I've
been and seen. It was you know, yeah, it was hard.
It's been that part to let go of that part
of my life and to put that and to and
it was a grieving process to grieve that person and
(26:34):
that the idea of how I thought my life would
play out took a really long time to put it
in a place that I'm that I'm peaceful with and
have a lot of acceptance and I don't live in
a space of what if anymore.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
You've got through through that, you're back with your mum,
and you're honesty, and I appreciate your honesty that yeah,
you're not going to touch drugs again, but you touch
it one more time.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
I touched it a few more times.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
All the time, sorry said one more time, you were alone.
I knew more.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Okay, no, No, it was a few look, I went
to rehab. Three days later, I did. I went. I
went back to a rehab that was that I'd been
to a few years earlier. That I stayed long enough
to know that there was a way out. But I
was deep in that relationship. And whilst I stayed in
that relationship, I was never ever going to get clean.
But it gave me enough to know that they were
(27:25):
there when and if the time ever came, and I
went to their facility, but it wasn't a hospital or
a lockdown setting. And I knew that I needed to stop,
but I didn't know it was Having to stop was
a whole different ballgame. And so you know that powerlessness
and that drive, and yeah, I just couldn't control myself.
(27:46):
So at nighttime, this is the truth. So at nighttime,
when everybody else will go to bed and you could
walk out the door, I'd be laying in bed, begging
myself not to go, and I'd get up and I'd
go and use, and I'd come back and then try
and pretend that I hadn't used. And it was the
most painful way to exist in the world. And so
that went on for a little while, and then eventually
I got caught doing that, and I went to a
place called mold And Private Hospital in Melbourne and I
(28:09):
walked through the doors and I'll never forget this moment.
The last time I ever used a drug on the
twenty sixth of March twenty eighteen, and I had this
really romantic idea of how it was going to end,
and it was going to be, you know, this way,
and I had this big I won't use the wording,
but I had this I had this big bit of
drugs that I'd saved and I was going to use
(28:31):
right before I walked in and I used and it
didn't do anything, and it was the scariest moment of
my life, you know what I mean. The drugs didn't
work anymore, and it was I just knew that it
was time for me to face myself, and so in
I went. And I spent six weeks in that particular
facility and it was the most painful, terrifying experience in
(28:54):
my life. I detoxed from that relationship that I mentioned
At the same time, it was the last time I
had any contact with him too, which was equally as painful.
And that was the beginning of the rest of my life.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
You would have to, I would imagine have to break
away from him as well, the two of you together
with one and show weakness and drag the other one down,
or vice versa. Absolutely the six weeks of detox and
you said it was the most painful time. Just tell
the listeners that don't really understand what it involves physically, emotionally,
(29:30):
everything that had on you that six weeks.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
So the physical part, I guess, you know, And all
drugs are different, but the physical part with ICE is
pretty quick. It hurts, like the body hurts and it
aches and it's tired and all that stuff. But it's
not like other B toxes. It's the mental game, I
guess with Ice. And you know, I'd been gathering hate
(29:54):
and shame and guilt and for myself and Karen, dragging
that shit around since I was five, you know what
I mean. And I just I just gathered so much
of this pain and anxiety and fear and resentment and
all of this shit that I've been lugging around. And
(30:15):
I'd been avoiding it, and I had done literally everything
in my power to avoid it for thirty two years.
And I got lobbed and all of those things that
kept me safe from feeling that got stripped off me
and I got left to sit with myself, no phones,
no internet, no ringing up somebody to distract it, like,
I'm just left with myself to sit in it. And
(30:37):
he was terrifying. And I had to face myself. I
had to face all of those things that I'd done
in the using, all the people that i'd hurt, all
the things that i'd all the people that I'd wronged,
which was a lot by that point, and that takes
a lot of making peace with oneself to face that
and take responsibility for it and not blame anybody else
anymore and point my finger at the rest of the world.
(30:59):
And you know, I had to look at myself and go, well,
this is on u k. Like nobody else can fit.
Nobody else in this world is going to be able
to fix this. But you are the only person that
can process hate, responsibility and move on from this. Your mum,
your dad, your brother, your sister, God himself can't help
you here. It's you. And so the first few things
that really needed to change, and with the ultimate shift
(31:21):
was I knew that I couldn't trust myself. I was
not a trustworthy person in my life. Any thinking, any
thinking that I had come up with wasn't going to
get me anywhere good, you know what I mean? It
was only going to lead me back out the doors,
back into the houses, back into the places that I was.
And I needed to come to terms with that and
accept it. So I shut up and I listened to
(31:41):
what these people in this place said and just didn't
act on any thought that I had. And that was
the bigg That was how it started to change, is
when I went, you know what, I just need to
listen and trust all these other people that have got
my best interests at heart, and forget about any ideas
I think I might have.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
That's a big shift in mine, said, isn't it Just
You've got to make sure you don't trust yourself. But
look where you're trusting yourself has taken you.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Trusting me was a bad plan, and too long a
time on my own, in my own thoughts, left to
my own devices was and then stayed that way for
a few years, you know.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Ye, Well, yeah, I've spoken to people that have beaten
an addiction, but they say it's always there. You've got
to constantly work on yourself and how long? How long
have you been cleaned for now?
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Coming up?
Speaker 1 (32:33):
As and do you is there practices you have in
place to make sure that you don't have any setbacks?
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Yeah? Look, look I haven't in a normal day to
day life, I haven't thought about using drugs or alcohol
can be challenging at times. Yeah, not that I've thought
about drinking, but sometimes I get a bit of fomo
for a second, and then I wake up feeling good
and everyone else's shit and then I go, yeah, not sad,
I don't feel like then. But It's been years since
I've thought about using drugs, you know. But there's certainly
(33:05):
things that I do in my life to keep myself safe,
Like I'll share this story, and this is a really
important story and perspective for maybe anybody who's going junkies
and junkies your choice. You chose that and all of
that mentality, which I totally understand and respect, because unless
you witnessed it or had a loved one go through it,
or been through it yourself, it's really hard to understand
(33:28):
why any normal person, when they get in that much
trouble and pain can't just pull themselves up and change.
And I get that but there's things I have to
do to keep myself safe. For example, I had to
hit replacement a couple of weeks ago, and I knew
going into that that I would have to take pain
medication and there would be some things involved in that that,
you know, steps out of the rules of my normal
(33:50):
day to day life. And because of previous experiences in
recovery with taking pain meds, you know, I knew that
that would turn that part of my brain up. And
it was as an And it doesn't matter how many
years or how much talking or how much awareness I
think I have or how cool I think I am
around it. If I don't put certain steps in place
before those drugs hit my system, I'm gone, you know.
(34:13):
And I experienced that in real time, and it's really
interesting to be able to watch that part of my
brain with awareness attached of Like, as I woke up
from that surgery, before both of my eyes could open,
I was thinking about how I could manipulate the nurse
to give me more phentanyl.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Scary, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
That's not choice to me, that's powerlessness. Now on the
flip side of that, recovery is one hundred percent my choice.
There is nobody else responsible for me men clean other
than me, And it's the choices that I make in
my sane mind today that keep me safe from that
part of me. So that's kind of how it works.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Yeah, you mentioned when you're going in the hospital for
the surgery, you said that you put steps in place.
What steps did you put in place?
Speaker 2 (34:56):
So the first is everybody who's involved in that surgery
knows in advance that I'm a recovering addict, like the surgeon,
the anethetist, my nurses, anybody that's got anything to do
with it, knows that the likelihood of me drug seeking
is possible and that I might be asking for drugs
that I don't need. Okay, So that's the first one, Yeah,
(35:17):
that normally, And the second one is no, I try
really hard not to go home with any medication that
I can misuse and know like just in case prescriptions.
So I did have to come home with some this time.
I came home with minimal, though, and I can't be
in charge of the medication. Somebody that I know, love
and trust and understand the situation has to be in
(35:38):
charge of the meds, and I just up my recovery game.
So I check in with the people that I know
from NA and the people that understand what can happen,
you know, my family, checking with my family, anybody who
sort of knows me and knows how my brain can
be affected. And it was I'll tell you, like it
was rough. It was a rough week. I had a
lot of crazy thoughts and I just was really noticing
(35:59):
my thinking and my behaviors were just no good. So
everybody's just a little bit more on guard. But I
keep talking and I don't pretend that I'm okay. I
think that's the most important one. I don't try and
pretend that I got it covered, because I probably don't.
So I just say, hey, I'm having doesn't mean that
I'm going to run off tomorrow and buy a bag
of coke, but like, I'm having a rough week, and
(36:19):
so just keep an eye on me.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Okay. That's good advice, speaking advice. If you had children's
loved ones or someone close to you going through what
you went through at your worst times, as you're trying
to come out, as you would diving in deeper, what
sort of device, what sort of support would you try
and give that person?
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Yeah, so I get I get a lot of families
contact me on social media asking me how do they
help their son, brother, mother, whoever it might be. And
it's such a hard one and I wish I had
a magical answer for them, but the truth is you
can't in a way like they'll get they'll offer them
the help and have the help there, I guess, but
they'll only change when they're ready to change, or if
(37:04):
they're ready to change. The best thing that you can
do for you is get educated. Get educated. Find there's
a couple of different support groups. Family Drug Support FDS
is a wonderful community of loved ones that you know,
alan On is another one. And get educated on addiction
and get educated on where to find the right help,
because I think that's one of the most overwhelming things
(37:26):
for families is when somebody is ready to get clean
or sober or whatever it might be, they don't know
where to go. You know, contact me. I'm always happy
to share. I know some really reputable places in this
country that I trust and with that kind of stuff.
But get educated, get yourself educated so for the day
when they do come to you and say I'm ready,
You're ready, And that's I think one of the biggest
(37:48):
things and mistakes that families make, and my family did
for a long time until they got their own help
and support, which they did. You know, when they went
and got their own support, was enabling. You know, there's
a fine line between love and enabling. And it's a
really tricky one.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
It's a tough one, isn't It really is a tough one.
But I like that I'll take that away about getting
educated about it, because at some point in time, if
you get the opportunity, you know what you're dealing with
and what the best way of approaching it.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Is so a great because often often addicts will tell
you how they think they need to be loved as
opposed to how they actually need to be loved in
those times. And if you can, if you can work
that out, then you two steps ahead.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
And you talk enabling. That's a difficult thing for with
someone's going through it that you love. I'm there to
support you. Sometimes it's got to be tough. Love, draw
a line in the sand, and okay, this is it.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Tough, tough little boundaries, boundaries, boundaries, and it's so hard
when and I nearly fell off my chair when my
mum and dad blessed their hearts. They didn't know any better.
Enabled the hell out of me for years. And the
day they turned up with boundaries and awareness and knowledge,
I was checkmate, you know what I mean? I had,
I was done.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
That's a good way of putting it. They've checked, madeed you,
they check how can I maneuver around this? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (39:04):
And I was just like, no, these are the rules,
these are the boundaries. Will help you with this. You know,
we're not going to let your start, but I'm not
going to give you the fifty dollars to go get
the groceries. I'll turn up your house with fifty dollars
worth of groceries. And it was just the way they
shifted it into a way that was helpful as opposed
to enabling.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
And that's that's good knowledge. So that's a good good information.
Have you mended your relationships with your family and friends?
Like you said, there's a lot of people that you
needed to apologize for all the terrible things that you've done.
How is your relationship with your family and your close friends,
your long term friends unbelievable?
Speaker 2 (39:39):
You know, I by the time I got clean, nobody
really wanted to come near me with a ten foot poll.
I guess your parents or I'm lucky. My parents, you know,
always loved me. They were furious. And look, the first
thing you want to do about a week after getting
clean is you want to call everybody and apologize and
say how sorry you are. And you know, I think
(40:00):
there's normally that natural thing of all. I just wanted
to I'm like, I'm fine now if everyone could just
forgive me. But you know, I'd said sorry forty thousand
times already and it meant nothing. And it really just
took time. It took time of me showing up and
doing what I said I was going to do, and
you know, continuing to do behaviors that slowly but surely
(40:23):
let them trust me again. And that took time to
build on that. And you know, I had to remove
my expectations on them forgiving me and let them forgive
me and rebuild our relationship in their time. And that's
another mindset that I think has to happen in in recovery.
Like they didn't know me and forgiveness, no one did,
No one owed me anything, And I had to go
into asking for forgiveness without expectation of forgiveness. You know,
(40:46):
it had to be about just apologizing because it was
the right thing to do. But yeah, that took years
to get to that point. But you know, my sister
and I I don't know how many times a day
I talked to it, but we both have little babies
about the same age, and you know, we're best friends,
and my brother and I and Sally. I lost my
mum a couple of years ago, which was pretty rough times,
(41:08):
you know, But I did that without having to use
which was pretty remarkable.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Yea. Yeah, Well, it's those little setbacks that there's always
that danger period. But it sounds like you've got an
awareness of what you need to do to protect your
protect yourself.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
And that's what recovery is. It's about knowing and accepting
my flaws and where I trip up and not trying
to pretend that I've got this.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
You know.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
I think that's one of the most dangerous things for
people who are addicts, is going I've got this, don't
worry about it, like I don't have this, Like there's
I'm only a couple of mistakes away from picking up
a drug and I'll and it's really people find that
really disheartening. And I don't I just that's just what
I have to know for myself to keep myself safe.
And because you know, I know that if I pick
(41:55):
up a drug tomorrow. You know, I say this all
the time. I'm a drug addict. I love drugs, and
I you know, we'll always be more using in me.
But I don't know if there'd be another recovery. I
don't know about that.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
It be a long podcast if there was.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Yeah, God help me.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
I make this observation. I see friends that have had
problems with alcohol or drugs or whatever, and sometimes I
get frustrated the people that are close to them. You know,
the person that's clearly got a drinking problem. Let's say,
I'll come on, mate, we'll go out for a drink.
Or they've just got out of prisons, say and come on,
we'll go for a drink, the very thing that put
(42:33):
them in prison. Do you have any people from your
past or the reach out come out we're playing this,
or have you consciously distanced yourself from that lifestyle so
the temptations not there.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
So the first thing I did when I went to rehab,
before I even came out, was controlled. I deleted my life.
I changed my number, I deleted my I didn't just
delete all the numbers. I went into my iCloud account
and deleted my whole life and my past. I knew
that anybody of any importance that needed to find me
(43:07):
or wanted to find me would know where to find me,
and if they didn't, then they didn't need to be
in my life. And that was I needed that. As
I said, I couldn't trust myself. So you know, six
months in, had somebody from the past it oh, let's
even just catch up. Let's catch up for a coffee,
I would be, Oh, that sounds like a lovely idea.
In the next minute, next minute, you know, I'm backing
Shepherd and doing whatever. So that was one of the
(43:29):
most important parts of moving forward, was leaving the past behind.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Yeah. I think that is a big, big step. Do
you have any ongoing programs like Narcotics Anonymous or any
of that you participate in those programs?
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Absolutely? So. Narcotics Anonymous played a massive part in keeping
me clean, and I think big. I think the other
part recovery of any sort, whether that be drugs, alcohol,
mental health, depression, whatever it might be. I think everybody
needs community, and you know, NA was what worked for me.
But I just needed to have people that weren't my mum,
(44:05):
my dad, or my brother or somebody like that that
felt it was their responsibility to keep me safe. And
I just it was about having people around me that
understood the way that my brain worked and why, and
we could talk about things and with no judgment and
it was safe. And I'm a massive advocate for any
of the a's, AA, G, A s, all of the a's,
(44:27):
because it's just good to have people that understand.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
And could probably not just understand and watch out for
warning signs if they got your back as well, because
you're very like if you got any form of addiction,
you become very cunning in covering things up.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
To it's fool yourself. Well, you know, you can fool yourself.
You can trick yourself into thinking you're fine and all
of a sudden you're not. So it's having people that
do know what to look out for.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
You know.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
If my friends haven't heard from me, and most of
the time these days it's because I have two kids
and I just forget what day it is. But if
they haven't heard from me in a while, they'll bring
in and say, hey, what you do what you're doing,
or they'll know that I'm going in for a hit replacement.
And nobody else thought of that, that hiccup turning up.
But you know, they turn up at the hospital and
they go, how many of those pills you had today?
(45:14):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (45:15):
Okay, Well, you've got good people around you. Yeah, you've
cut your old life off, You've cleaned yourself up, and
you're no longer the pop star, the musician, you no
longer the ice addict. You walk out. What do you
do with your life from there? How did you rebuild everything?
How did you find purpose? How did you find direction?
Speaker 2 (45:37):
Really slowly? And I believe that's been the key. I
didn't know who I was Gary, You know, I didn't
know what I liked. I didn't know how to get
a job. I didn't know how to pay bills. I
didn't really know how to do anything. I knew how
to sing songs, and I knew how to take drugs.
So I after I left that six week rehab, I
(45:59):
then went into another program for about eighty months to
two years, and it was called a sober living house,
and it was more of a there was freedom involved
in it, like I could go out the front door.
It was the place that I mentioned earlier that I'd
been to. I went back into there, and I really
slowly but surely learned how to trust myself, how to
trust my thinking. I didn't have a phone for a
(46:20):
long time, and then when I did get a phone,
I got one of those like old burner phones, flip phones,
without the Internet and without social media. And I just
slowly added stuff into my life and went out and
tested it and went, yep, that's I'm okay with that,
you know. And then I went and got a job,
like just a job. I went and got my traffic
traffic control ticket. And you know, for so many years
(46:42):
I thought self esteem was wrapped up in the way
that I looked and the clothes that I wore, or
the cars that I drove, or the money in my bank.
And you know, I learned that self esteem belongs in
none of those places. It's all about doing esteemable acts
and getting a job and turning up on time, clean
and responsible and doing a job and going home. And
(47:03):
it was just little not lying to people or turning
up when I said I was going to turn up.
All of this, these little one percent has just started
to rebuild this life, and you know, I worked out
what my morals and values were, and you know, I
just slowly built a life and music was certainly not
a part of that. In my mind, I didn't think
it would be. I thought that I was done with music.
(47:25):
And then I realized that I love music and I
now do music in a way that fills my cup
as opposed to chasing unicorns as.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
Well, that makes sense, and just getting that being through
the path that you've been through, and especially the low
part of your life, how rewarding it is. Just been
a citizen again.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
And the first day I went to work, you know,
the first time I got paid, the first after my
first week of work, and I got up and I
was going to work, I had my lunch, I turned
up on time. Made me feel better than anything. It
just I felt proud to myself and I felt like
I was a person in the world. And I can't
(48:05):
that nothing will beat that feeling the first time that
I was a responsible human in the world. I'll never
forget how that felt.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
Yeah, and all the pieces start to come together again.
I've seen people whose lives were off the track and
they talk about it just feels good just being being
a normal person. And I'm not chasing whatever I was
chasing before.
Speaker 2 (48:23):
No, it was a really pivotal moment.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
What about love? Did you find love?
Speaker 2 (48:29):
Love?
Speaker 1 (48:29):
I did?
Speaker 2 (48:30):
I did, and I do. You know, part of my
recovery was no men or because you know, I sickness
only attracts sickness. You know, I don't think you can
find a healthy relationship when you're crazy anyway. So I
made a rule that I wasn't going to do any
dating or go near any men for a while. So
(48:50):
I did just that, and it took me a couple
of years, and you know, I found a man and
we've been together nearly, you know, over six years now,
you know, I mean it's it's very which is great.
It's very vanilla compared to anything I've ever been. If
was very calm, it's not toxic, it's not bombs going
off all through. It's very safe and it's wonderful. And
(49:12):
from that, you know, I now have two little babies,
which is something I never thought that i'd ever do.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
Yeah, well, you've got your you've got your hands full
there and it's nice that you're in the found found
the right relationship and two kids, looking at the lessons
that you've learned in life, what messaging or how would
you try and steer your kids to let's not go
down the path. Mum went all the dangers of going
(49:39):
down that path? What what? What are the things that
you've learned?
Speaker 2 (49:43):
Look? I and and to be honest, having kids, that
was my one reservation about having kids is like I
was terrified that they'd have my bug. And someone said
to me, you can't. You can't live life with that thought.
And you know, it nearly stopped me. And you know,
I guess if they ever find themselves down that path,
(50:05):
and I'll know where to send them. But I also
know that I can't stop them. But I think I
think it comes before the problem starts, you know. I
think it's about teaching them from little ones, you know,
even now about self worth and not that my parents
didn't parenting I think looks really different then from what
(50:26):
it does now. It's a different, different world. And I
think it's about teaching them that they are enough and
worth and building trust and knowing that you know, and
removing shame from our relationship. And again not that my
parents ever made me feel that way, it was just
different you know that they can come to me with anything,
and I think it's I think that's where it all starts,
(50:46):
is you know, supporting them from when they're little as
opposed to dealing with the issue if it comes up.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
Yeah, okay, well I'm sure you've got your hands full.
How old are the kids now?
Speaker 2 (50:58):
I've got a six month old and a two and
a half year old.
Speaker 1 (51:03):
Did you see you in ten years? Good luck?
Speaker 2 (51:06):
I feel like I need it.
Speaker 1 (51:07):
Yeah, okay, well that's going to keep you occupied. You're
doing the podcast as well.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
Yeah, look, I after it all happened, I guess people
always wondered. People remained interested in my story, which I
was always People wanted to know where I went because
the last thing they saw I was going to jail
for fifteen years, and then I was gone for a
long time. So after many years and a few news
people wanted me to come on and share my story,
(51:35):
and I said, nah, it doesn't feel right. So I
went and did a podcast and told the story in
a lot of depth and a lot of detail, and
the response from that was really surprising, and so I
decided to carry on. And so I've got a podcast
called why Do I Feel this way, and it's just
sharing stories of people from all different walks of life
that have faced different types of adversity and found better
ways to do life than they did yesterday. And it's
(51:56):
just something I'm really proud.
Speaker 1 (51:58):
Of, so you should be. And I think your story
that you tell there's so many lessons to be learned
in that. I think it's interesting, like we understand where
people's lives are off track right from the start and think, Okay,
well that's not going to happen to me because I've
got the support round. But yeah, we make choices in
life that can point you in the wrong direction. But
(52:21):
I think the most amazing thing is you said, you
know people wrape you off when yeah, you've been arrested
and looking like or possibility of serving fifteen years. I
remember that when it was hitting the media and I'm
just probably looking at through it at the time with
the cops lens think of course, she's fucked like that.
She's not coming back from that, like you got the
(52:43):
wake up call for the first arrest and then still
doing it. But it just shows you can turn your
life around. I think it's an important message.
Speaker 2 (52:52):
I think it's the most important message is. It doesn't matter.
And I'm not the worst case going around either. Like
I've met people in my recovery that have been further
down the rabbit hole, even if you think there isn't
further down, there is than I was. And they live
beautiful lives to say, beautiful, full, rich lives, free from
all of that chaos. And the message in it for
(53:12):
me is it a It can happen to anyone like,
so just don't beat that.
Speaker 1 (53:17):
I think that's an important thing to get across.
Speaker 2 (53:19):
Yeah, anyone can find themselves where I did. You know,
as I said from the beginning, this shit doesn't discriminate.
But b it doesn't matter how far down you go,
as long as you've still got two feet on the ground.
I promise you can do it. It's not easy. It's
pretty simple, but it's not easy, but it's it's doable,
and a life beyond your wildest dreams is waiting for
(53:40):
you if you if you just take the first step.
Speaker 1 (53:43):
Yeah, and you found I get the sense there's a
peacefulness about you. You look at peace and the way
you're talking and talking about your life. Now there's something
cool about that too, isn't there? Like you know you
sound like you were chasing chaos. But sometimes calmness in life.
Life is not too bad.
Speaker 2 (54:01):
I love calm, I love quiet. It's you know, I'm
happy for that. Life is pretty simple for me these days.
And you know, I have starting to go back to work.
As I said, I'm doing music and I go I
like to do, you know, speaking about this stuff where
I can, because I find that I have, you know,
a unique position that you know, it was a pretty
public situation and people, you know, I can use my story.
(54:22):
It doesn't all have to be for nothing. It could
be for something, so you know, I do that. But
for the most part, my life's pretty peaceful. I'm peaceful,
as you said, and I think, you know, yes, I
have all the external stuff back in life. I've got
cars and I don't have to rob people anymore, and
all that stuff, you know. I you know, I've got
money in the bank and houses and beautiful children and
all that stuff. But the biggest gift I got from
(54:43):
the work that I did is my internal world. I
don't wake up with that impending doom anymore. I don't
wake up hating myself. I don't I don't resent everybody
and have I'm not riddled with anger and all of
that shit that I carried around for all those years.
Life is just life, and sometimes it's hard. Life throws
donuts at you sometimes, but you know, I know that
(55:05):
all of that shit passes. Nothing's permanent good nor bad.
And I'll be okay as long as I don't use drink.
You use drugs and drink alcohol.
Speaker 1 (55:13):
Well, Kate, we'll wrap it up at this point, but
I just want to thank you for coming on the
coming on the podcast, sharing a deeply personal story, and yeah,
the value that people listening to this will get from
hearing your story, I think it's quite inspirational, and yeah,
it's it just shows that you can find find your
(55:33):
way out of the darkest hole you can.
Speaker 2 (55:35):
Thank you so much for having me, and thank you
for listening.
Speaker 1 (55:38):
Me to listening, or to the audience to listen.
Speaker 2 (55:40):
Or anybody you, anybody listening. I hope it's a lot
to hear.
Speaker 1 (55:44):
I hope there's more people listening just you and me.
But even if there's not, I've enjoyed the enjoyed the chat.
So thanks so much and all the best for the future,
and good luck with the two kids. They're tough ages,
Thank you, cheers
Speaker 2 (56:00):
Sent nineteen n
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